History YMMV / GameOfThronesS5E10MothersMercy

** Is Brienne a true KnightInShiningArmor or a selfish, revenge-obsessed brute who abandoned her duty to Sansa for a petty grudge against Stannis? Stannis' FamousLastWords, "Go, do your duty" gains a lot of {{Irony}} in that light. Bear in mind that Renly was ''never'' the "rightful" king Brienne makes him out to be, and despite her anger at Stannis killing Renly, Stannis was also killing a traitor who would have most likely killed ''him'' if he'd had the chance. Also, killing Stannis shows a case of DidntThinkThisThrough as with Stannis dead the Boltons will remain in control of the North, meaning Sansa remains in danger.

** Sam's desire to protect Gilly is meant to be a cogent, heartwarming reason for him to leave the Wall, but it can come across as extremely selfish since he's essentially using friendship to manipulate Jon into allowing him to run off south with his lover for a few years, which is precisely the reason the Night's Watch are sworn to celibacy. Remember, "Love is the death of duty."

** Is Brienne a true KnightInShiningArmor or a selfish, revenge-obsessed brute who abandoned her duty to Sansa for a petty grudge against Stannis? Stannis' FamousLastWords, "Go, do your duty" gains a lot of {{Irony}} in that light. Bear in mind that Renly was ''never'' the "rightful" king Brienne makes him out to be, and despite her anger at Stannis killing Renly, Stannis was also killing a traitor who would have most likely killed ''him'' if he'd had the chance.

** After a season worth of build-up, the battle of Winterfell is the ''pinnacle'' of AntiClimax. Stannis' entire army is slaughtered with ease, ''offscreen''. As to fans' reactions, due to the residual hate toward Stannis from the last episode, some considered this LaserGuidedKarma; others thought it made Shireen's sacrifice meaningless. On the other hand, it did present the opportunity of Stannis having a few moments of "quality time" with Brienne, resolving a four-season-old plot point in the process. There's also a group of fans who are past caring by this point, much like Stannis himself, because they feel that the real Stannis had already died in the previous episode as a character.

** Brienne has become this to a lot of viewers for her apparently killing Stannis, when he was wounded, something which is portrayed badly when Ramsay does it, and for abandoning her duty to Sansa over a petty grudge, along with calling Renly the rightful King.

** The Night's Watch conspirators. Kit Harrington [[http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview has reasoned]] that their mutiny against Jon was justified because Jon was taking them for granted. The problem is that given the events of "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E8Hardhome Hardhome]]" and the fact that none of Jon's most egregious actions were adapted into the series, the brothers end up coming across as petty more than anything else.

** Is Brienne a true KnightInShiningArmor or a selfish, revenge-obsessed brute who abandoned her duty to Sansa for a petty grudge against Stannis? Stannis' FamousLastWords, "Go, do your duty" gains a lot of {{Irony}} in that light. Bear in mind that Renly was never the "rightful" king Brienne makes him out to be, and despite her anger at Stannis killing Renly Stannis was killing a traitor who would have most likely killed him.

*** The show's rendition of the revolt in itself is one. While some consider it an accurate and effective retelling of the revolt, others claim that, because the show omitted [[spoiler:Jon outright betraying his oaths by loudly declaring his intentions to abandon the Wall and march on Winterfell with Stannis]], the catalyst of the revolt appears to be Jon's alliance with the Wildlings, in which case, why did Thorne and his co-conspirators even allow Jon and the Wildlings into Castle Black in the first place? Another point of contention is the fact that here, Alliser Thorne is the mastermind of the revolt, which some see as going completely against his established character traits of MyMasterRightOrWrong.

* FridgeLogic: Stannis is told that the last of his horses have been taken by the deserters and even he himself is forced to march on foot...and yet Melisandre arrives at Castle Black '''on horseback.''' What, did she just happen to find a random horse wandering the frozen countryside?

** The fact that the walk itself, not counting The preceding and subsequent Cersei scenes, took over 6 minutes puts it somewhere between {{Filler}} and OverlyLongGag

** After a season worth of build-up, the battle of Winterfell is the ''pinnacle'' of AntiClimax. Stannis' entire army is slaughtered with ease, ''offscreen''. As to fans' reactions, due to the residual hate toward Stannis from the last episode, some considered this LaserGuidedKarma; others thought it made Shireen's sacrifice meaningless. On the other hand, it did present the opportunity of Stannis having a few moments of "quality time" with Brienne, resolving a four-season-old plot point in the process.

* FridgeLogic: Stannis is told that the last of his horses have been taken by the deserters and even he himself is forced to march...yet Melisandre arrives at Castle Black '''on horseback.'''

** Is Brienne a true KnightInShiningArmor or a selfish, revenge-obsessed brute who abandoned her duty to Sansa for a petty grudge against Stannis? Stannis' FamousLastWords, "Go, do your duty" gains a lot of {{Irony}} in that light. Bear in mind that Renly was never the "rightful" king Brienne makes him out to be.

** Okay, Night's Watch conspirators, you have totally betrayed your Lord Commander ''after'' allowing nearly 2,000 wildlings and a giant who owe him their lives through the Wall; you are only a dozen strong, and you don't even have the Wall to protect yourselves now. Good luck.

----

** Ellaria and the Sand Snakes smugly acting like they got away with Myrcella's assassination despite their laughably obvious guilt as known poisoners with motive and opportunity. Furthermore, Jaime still has ''Trystane Martell'', the heir to Dorne, who genuinely loved Myrcella and will certainly want his own vengeance ''against'' the Sand Snakes. Alternatively, Myrcella's death will result in harm to Trystane, in which case Prince Doran is very unlikely to ''thank'' the Sand Snakes even if he blames the Lannisters.

** Samwell Tarly. While in the book, Jon Snow insists on Samwell returning to Oldtown to become the Order's new Maester, in the show Samwell basically guilt-trips Jon on the basis that he and Gilly are likely to die.

** Ellaria and the Sand Snakes thinking they could get away with their assassination of Myrcella. Despite being known for their skills with poisons, already attempting to kill her, and her dying just minutes after she came in contact with them, making their actions laughably obvious even if Jaime doesn't turn the ship around immediately. Not to mention that ''Jaime still has Trystane Martell!''

* HesJustHiding: Many fans don't believe Jon's dead (or at least that [[BackFromTheDead he won't stay that way]]). The ambiguity of the fates of Stannis, Sansa, and Theon/Reek has also left fans thinking they'll be seen again, especially since [[{{Understatement}} the show hasn't had a problem with onscreen deaths before.]]

** Although likely in-character given her devotion, Brienne sentencing Stannis to death in the name of King Renly, "''rightful''" king of the Andals, titles, titles, is too solemn and untruthful for some to take seriously, as if Stannis needed yet another humiliation before being written off. Renly was many things, but not the rightful king by any law of the Seven Kingdoms.

* FridgeLogic: Stannis is told that the last of his horses have been taken by the deserters and even he himself is forced to march, yet Melisandre arrives at Castle Black on horseback.

** The fuzzy music that plays when Myrcella tells Jaime she's known all along he's her father and hugs him. It's only narmy if the fact that a girl going beyond acceptance into actually being ''grateful'' that she is the product of incest makes you crave some BrainBleach.

** Okay, Night's Watch conspirators, you have totally betrayed your Lord Commander ''after'' allowing nearly 2,000 wildlings and a giant who owe him their lives through the Wall; you are only a dozen, and you don't even have the Wall to protect yourself now. Good luck.

** The Night's Watch conspirators. Kit Harrington [[http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview has reasoned]] that their mutiny against Jon was justified because Jon was taking them for granted. The only problem is that given the events of "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E8Hardhome Hardhome]]" and the fact that none of Jon's most egregious actions were not adapted into the series, the brothers end up coming across as petty more than anything else.

** Mycella's death. In a show that frequently goes out of its way to not have happy endings, her being TooHappyToLive by having a PerfectlyArrangedMarriage and accepting who her father is makes it laughably easy to predict her death. It doesn't help that Ellaria and the Sand Snakes act all smug afterwards as if they got away with something, even though the ship is ''still in sight of the shore'' and could turn around for medical attention, making their actions hair-pullingly obvious, and it's ridiculous that they believe they could get away with it for more than a day.
** The sheer number of DashedPlotLine and {{Cliffhanger}} become hard for some viewers to take seriously after a while and robs any drama from the climactic scenes.
** Although likely in-character given her devotion, Brienne sentencing Stannis to death in the name of King Renly, "''rightful''" king of the Andals, title, titles... is too solemn and untruthful for some to take seriously, as if Stannis needed yet another humiliation before being written off. Renly was many things, but not the rightful king by any law of the Seven Kingdoms.

** The Faceless Men's facechanging technique was almost always shown off-screen, keeping its mysterious allure. This time, however, we're treated to rapid-fire images of Arya pulling faces off which can undercut the severity of her situation.
** The tragedy of Stannis' FromBadToWorse situation can be undercut (or even cross over into farce) its UpToEleven nature: the second he finishes hearing awful news, even worse news arrives. It feels like an infomercial... "But wait, there's more!"

** Brienne's actions. While her killing Stannis is clearly meant to be cathartic LaserGuidedKarma, not only is Stannis UnintentionallySympathetic for some viewers, but the fact that Brienne abandons her duty to Sansa for revenge and spites Stannis by calling Renly "the rightful King" can make her come off as selfish and petty instead.
* WhatAnIdiot:
** Okay, Night's Watch conspirators, you have totally betrayed your Lord Commander ''after'' allowing nearly 2,000 wildlings and a giant who owe Jon their lives through the Wall; you are only a dozen, and you don't even have the Wall to protect yourself now. Good luck.

** Stannis knew he was outnumbered well before he marched on Winterfell meaning he was either TooDumbToLive or, after murdering his daughter, seeing his lover/guru and half his men abandon him, and finding his wife has killed herself, he choose to commit [[SuicideByCop an elaborate form of suicide]]. Though even that doesn't really excuse getting [[HollywoodTactics ambushed in an open field]].

** Is Brienne a true KnightInShiningArmor or a selfish, revenge-obsessed brute who abandoned her duty to Sansa for a petty grudge against Stannis? Stannis' FamousLastWords, "Go, do your duty" gains a lot of {{Irony}} in that light. Also bear in mind that Renly was never the "rightful" king Brienne makes him out to be.

** Mycella's death can also come across as this. In a show that frequently goes out of its way to not have happy endings, her being TooHappyToLive by having a PerfectlyArrangedMarriage and accepting who her father is makes it laughably easy to predict her death. It doesn't help that Ellaria and the Sand Snakes act all smug afterwards as if they got away with something, even though the ship is ''still in sight of the shore'' and could turn around for medical attention, making their actions hair-pullingly obvious, and it's ridiculous that they believe they could get away with it for more than a day.

** As pointed out above, Brienne's actions can come across as this. While her killing Stannis is clearly meant to be cathartic LaserGuidedKarma, not only is Stannis UnintentionallySympathetic for some viewers, but the fact that Brienne abandons her duty to Sansa for revenge and spites Stannis by calling Renly "the rightful King" can make her come off as selfish and petty instead.

** Melisandre. She [[ScrewThisImOuttaHere abandons Stannis]] not long after learning that his hired swords have deserted. Was she genuinely remorseful over Shireen's SenselessSacrifice or was she merely looking out for her own skin, since she failed to live up to her promises to Stannis? (Especially since the ''last'' time she failed him, he genuinely tried to strangle her.) A third possibility arises: she has come to realize Stannis is not the [[TheChosenOne Lord's Chosen]] and is shocked at her own failure and hubris.
** Alliser Thorne: was his assassination of Jon really "for the Watch," or was it just a way to finally get rid of Jon and seize power?
** Is Brienne a true KnightInShiningArmor or a selfish, revenge-obsessed brute, who abandoned her duty to Sansa for her petty grudge against Stannis? Stannis' FamousLastWords, "Go, do your duty" gains a lot of {{Irony}} in that light. Bear in mind that Renly was never the "rightful" king Brienne makes him out to be.

** After a season worth of build-up, the battle of Winterfell was the ''pinnacle'' of AntiClimax. Stannis' entire army was slaughtered with ease, ''offscreen''. As to fans' reactions, due to the residual hate toward Stannis from the last episode, some considered this LaserGuidedKarma; others thought this made Shireen's sacrifice meaningless. On the other hand, it did present the opportunity of Stannis having a few moments of "quality time" with Brienne, resolving a four-season-old plot point in the process.
** The death of Jon Snow has caused a split between fans of the books and fans of the TV series in similar fashion to Ned and Robb Stark's deaths earlier: just because they are major events in the original novels, some feel the TV series could have skipped over or delayed these events on screen.

* MoralEventHorizon:

** Collectively the Night Watch mutineers (mainly Alliser Thorne and Olly).

* {{Narm}}:
** [[Creator/LenaHeadey Lena Headey]] was pregnant during filming, so (much like [[Creator/ScarlettJohansson Scarlett]] [[ComicBook/BlackWidow Johansson]] in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'''s action scenes) Cersei's walk of shame is achieved with a combination of close-ups, body double shots where her face is clearly not visible, and occasionally CG-ing her head onto the double. Once you notice, it's impossible to unsee it.
*** It's possible that this would have happened anyway since Lena Headey does not do nude scenes for the show.

** The fuzzy music that plays when Myrcella tells Jaime she's known all along he's her father and hugs him. It's only Narm-y if the fact that a girl is not only perfectly okay about, but actually ''grateful,'' that she is the product of incest doesn't give you BrainBleach.
*** Mycella's death can come across as this. In a show that has to go out of its way to not have happy endings her being TooHappyToLive by having a perfect marriage and accepting who her father is makes it laughably easy to predict her death. It doesn't help that Ellaria and the Sand Snakes act all smug afterwards as if they got away with something, even though the ship is ''still in sight of the shore'' and could turn around for medical attention, making their actions hair-pullingly obvious, and it's ridiculous that they believe they could get away with it for more than a day.
** The sheer number of DashedPlotLine and {{Cliffhanger}} makes it hard to take seriously after a while and robs any drama from the climactic scenes.
** Likely in-character given her devotion, but Brienne sentencing Stannis to death on the name of King Renly, king of the Andals and so on... is too solemn and too untruthful to be taken seriously, as if Stannis needed yet another humiliating moment before being written off. Renly was many things, but not the rightful king by any law of the Seven Kingdoms.
** Tyene continues to spout the narm, this time giving the immortal line "You want a good girl, but you need the bad pussy" which may be the worst line. It's so bad that one would be excused for thinking it's a [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1GA4qcbwjI shout-out]] to a masterpiece by the name of ''Film/SharkAttack3Megalodon''.
** The Faceless Men's facechanging technique was almost always shown off-screen, keeping its mysterious allure. This time, however, we're treated to rapid-fire images of Arya pulling faces off which undercut the severity of her situation.
** The tragedy of Stannis' FromBadToWorse situation is undercut slightly by the fact the second he finishes hearing awful news, even worse news keeps coming. It feels like an infomercial... "But wait, there's more!"

* UnintentionallySympathetic: The showrunners clearly intended Stannis' downfall to be a major LaserGuidedKarma with Brienne arriving to avenge Renly, yet the manner in which the scenes are built-up (the ShockingSwerve in characterization, the removal of many of the dramatic elements from the books) make it feel deeply unearned. Brienne abandoning her watch of Sansa for her selfish duty to Renly (who she calls ''the rightful King'' who ''did'' usurp Stannis, being behind him in the line of succession) and then attacking Stannis after he's the last man standing makes the latter be more sympathetic nonetheless.

** The Brothers of the Night Watch. [[http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview Kit Harrington reasoned in an interview]] that their mutiny against Jon was justified because Jon was taking them for granted. Only problem is that given the events of "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E8Hardhome Hardhome]]" in addition to the fact that Jon's actual traitorous actions were not adapted into the series, the Brothers end up coming across as petty more than anything else.
** Likewise Brienne's actions this episode, as pointed out above, come across as this for some viewers. While her killing Stannis is meant to be portrayed as a form of Cathartic LaserGuidedKarma not only is Stannis [[UnintentionallySympathetic still sympathetic for some viewers]], the fact that she abandons her duty to Sansa in order to get revenge and calls Renly "the rightful King" to spite Stannis has made her come off as selfish and petty instead.

** Okay, Night's Watch, you have totally betrayed and mutinied against your Lord Commander without ''any'' of the justifications your book counterparts had. You also did this after he and nearly 2000 wildlings and a Giant ''entered'' Castle Black. You have small numbers, Jon Snow still has loyalists and you don't even have the Wall to protect yourself against them now. Good luck.
** Ellaria and the Sand Snakes thinking they could get away with their assassination of Myrcella. Despite being known for their skills with poisons, already attempting to kill her, and her dying just minutes after she came in contact with them, making their actions laughably obvious even if Jaime doesn't turn the ship around immediately. Not to mention that '''Jaime still has Trystane Martell'''.
** Stannis knew he was outnumbered well before he marched on Winterfell meaning he was either too stupid to live or, after murdering his daughter, seeing his lover/guru abandon him along with half his men, and finding his wife has killed herself, he choose to commit [[SuicideByCop an elaborate form of suicide]].

** After half a season of what seemed for all the world like building up to Sansa burying Chekhov's Corkscrew in Ramsey's head, it's underwhelming to say the least that she only uses it to pick the lock on her room, and then drops it for no reason at all, leaving her completely helpless and once again having to be saved by a man, even one as pitiful as Theon/Reek.

** Myrcella's death. In a season notorious for going out of their ways to make female characters suffer, Myrcella was seen as the newest casualty. Killing her off ''right'' after her [[LukeYouAreMyFather bonding]] moment with Jaime caused a severe case of DarknessInducedAudienceApathy.
** The amount of CliffHanger in this episode was also a point of contention. It's obvious that this episode was mostly used to set up the next season and the quality clearly suffers for it.
** Many felt that given Ser Alliser Thorne's increasing PetTheDog moments this season and that he let Jon Snow and the other wildlings into Castle Black in Episode 09, it made no sense that he would betray Jon Snow.

** Ramsay's [[OneSceneWonder single scene]], in which he strolls onto the battlefield during the aftermatch of War between the Boltons and Stannis, completely unscathed. It continued the trend of Ramsay coming off as a VillainSue, and many viewers were unhappy.