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None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's violation. Shechem violated Dinah and kept her at his home while trying to persuade her brothers to give her to him in marriage. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but one can certainly sympathize with their motives. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to the guy who violated her? No, he's worried that they've endangered his whole family by making it "a stench in the nostrils" of the surrounding peoples.
to:
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's violation. Shechem violated Dinah and kept her at his home while trying to persuade her brothers to give her to him in marriage. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but one can certainly sympathize with their motives. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to the guy who violated her? No, he's worried that they've endangered his whole family by making it "a stench in the nostrils" of the surrounding peoples. Mainly because the brothers had asked for the whole city of Shechem to be circumcised, a sign of the covenant with God among the Hebrews, as part of the dowry for the wedding, and with all the men incapacitated, they were able to attack. The underhanded use of circumcision in such a way would not reflect kindly on the Hebrews as a whole, as no one would be willing to trust a tribe which uses their sacred bond with God as a weapon.
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
** Lot's rather... questionable offer to the gang rapists at Sodom has some questioning how righteous he really was, though many seem to forget that before he offered them his daughters, the text states he ''went out and closed the door behind him'', thereby leaving himself vulnerable to the rapists while protecting both his daughters and his guests.
to:
** Lot's rather... questionable offer to the gang rapists at Sodom has some questioning how righteous he really was, though many seem to forget that before he offered them his daughters, the text states he ''went out and closed the door behind him'', thereby leaving himself vulnerable to the rapists while protecting both his daughters and his guests. Furthermore, Lot had to protect his guests due to SacredHospitality, even at the risk of his own family. He was actually taking a huge risk by offering his daughters, as they would been seen as unclean and defiled, unfit for marriage. Lot's bloodline could have ended as a result.
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* DesignatedVillain: Dinah's brothers. The narrative takes a dim view of their [[RapeAndRevenge getting revenge for Dinah's rape]].
to:
* DesignatedVillain: Dinah's brothers. The narrative takes a dim view of their [[RapeAndRevenge getting revenge for Dinah's rape]]. However, the major problem with this view is that they pretty much butchered the whole city instead of the one guy, the prince, who actually raped Dinah, and took the women into slavery. The reason they managed to do that is because they convinced them all to get circumcised, an act which would have meant they were all now part of the pact with God and his followers. Circumcision is a sign that a man is a part of Judaism, so for Dinah's brothers to use it in such an underhanded way destroys the idea that the Hebrew nation is trust worthy to her neighbours. In the long run, it turns out that they just felt like the honour of their tribe was soiled when Dinah was raped, and didn't care what she felt. Now is it so hard to see why they were in the wrong?
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Not just adultery, but rape.
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** Joseph. Sold by his brothers to slavery, then wrongly accused of adultery. It takes a while before he [[EarnYourHappyEnding earns his happy ending]].
to:
** Joseph. Sold by his brothers to slavery, then wrongly accused of adultery.rape. It takes a while before he [[EarnYourHappyEnding earns his happy ending]].
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None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's rape. Shechem violated Dinah and kept her locked up in his castle until Jacob agreed to let him marry her. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but the reason behind it is understandable. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to the guy who violated her? No, he's worried that they've endangered his whole family by making it "a stench in the nostrils" of the surrounding peoples.
to:
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's rape. violation. Shechem violated Dinah and kept her locked up in at his castle until Jacob agreed home while trying to let persuade her brothers to give her to him marry her.in marriage. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but the reason behind it is understandable. one can certainly sympathize with their motives. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to the guy who violated her? No, he's worried that they've endangered his whole family by making it "a stench in the nostrils" of the surrounding peoples.peoples.
** Jacob in general, in fact: he swindles his brother Esau out of his blessing, makes a poor husband to his wives with his favoritism to Rachel driving them to vicious sisterly rivalry (dragging their handmaidens into the feud by making them his concubines as well), and does rather poorly as a father as well in view of the murderous envy his favoritism to Joseph stirred up in his other sons. Even so, God continues to favor him to the end.
** Jacob in general, in fact: he swindles his brother Esau out of his blessing, makes a poor husband to his wives with his favoritism to Rachel driving them to vicious sisterly rivalry (dragging their handmaidens into the feud by making them his concubines as well), and does rather poorly as a father as well in view of the murderous envy his favoritism to Joseph stirred up in his other sons. Even so, God continues to favor him to the end.
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None
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Joseph's RestrainedRevenge against his brothers may also have been a SecretTestOfCharacter, putting them into a position where they could again sell their half-brother (and their father's favourite) into slavery, as they had done with him years prior.
to:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
** Lot's rather... questionable offer to the gang rapists at Sodom has some questioning how righteous he really was, though many seem to forget that before he offered them his daughters, the text states he ''went out and closed the door behind him'', thereby leaving himself vulnerable to the rapists while protecting both his daughters and his guests.
** Shechem: Dinah's rapist, or just her defiler? The Hebrew word that many versions translate as "rape" ''can'' actually just mean "defilement" in the sense of "the filthy heathen defiles the girl by having sex with her" in this case. Levi and Simeon's murderously violent reaction to their sister's violation suggests that he did indeed rape her, but Shechem's belief that he could cut a deal with them for her hand in marriage suggests it might have been more in the "defilement" category.
** Joseph's RestrainedRevenge against his brothers may also have been a SecretTestOfCharacter, putting them into a position where they could again sell their half-brother (and their father'sfavourite) favorite) into slavery, as they had done with him years prior.
** Lot's rather... questionable offer to the gang rapists at Sodom has some questioning how righteous he really was, though many seem to forget that before he offered them his daughters, the text states he ''went out and closed the door behind him'', thereby leaving himself vulnerable to the rapists while protecting both his daughters and his guests.
** Shechem: Dinah's rapist, or just her defiler? The Hebrew word that many versions translate as "rape" ''can'' actually just mean "defilement" in the sense of "the filthy heathen defiles the girl by having sex with her" in this case. Levi and Simeon's murderously violent reaction to their sister's violation suggests that he did indeed rape her, but Shechem's belief that he could cut a deal with them for her hand in marriage suggests it might have been more in the "defilement" category.
** Joseph's RestrainedRevenge against his brothers may also have been a SecretTestOfCharacter, putting them into a position where they could again sell their half-brother (and their father's
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** One reason for the debate is that after the nations we know today as Judea and Israel were founded, a system of scribes were set up to preserve the holy books, copying the books EXACTLY as they had been written. This was considered a profession you had to train for, and is one of the reasons the Bible is considered a historical document. Now obviously, the scribe system hadn't been set up until long after Genesis, so the picture isn't going to be as clear.
to:
** One reason for the debate is that after the nations we know today as Judea and Israel were founded, a system of scribes were set up to preserve the holy books, copying the books EXACTLY as they had been written. This was considered a profession you had to train for, and is one of the reasons the Bible is considered a historical document. Now obviously, the scribe system hadn't been set up until long after Genesis, so the picture isn't going to be as clear. Also, these are very bare-bones accounts up to Abraham's time, which has some scholars contending that they must have originally been preserved only as oral accounts up to then.
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** Due to ValuesDissonance, Lot can come off as this for unbelievers when he offers his daughters to the rapists. He's yet described as a righteous man in the New Testament.
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's rape. Shechem raped Dinah and kept her locked up in his castle until Jacob agreed to let him marry her. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but the reason behind it is understandable. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to a rapist? No, [[WhatTheHellHero he's worried that they've damaged his reputation.]]
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's rape. Shechem raped Dinah and kept her locked up in his castle until Jacob agreed to let him marry her. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but the reason behind it is understandable. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to a rapist? No, [[WhatTheHellHero he's worried that they've damaged his reputation.]]
to:
** Due to ValuesDissonance, Lot can come off as this for unbelievers when he offers his daughters to the rapists. He's yet Yet he's described as a righteous man in the New Testament.
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's rape. Shechemraped violated Dinah and kept her locked up in his castle until Jacob agreed to let him marry her. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but the reason behind it is understandable. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to a rapist? the guy who violated her? No, [[WhatTheHellHero he's worried that they've damaged endangered his reputation.]]whole family by making it "a stench in the nostrils" of the surrounding peoples.
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's rape. Shechem
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Not ymmv
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* ArtisticLicensePaleontology: The Book of Genesis[[note]]if one interprets it literally rather than symbolically[[/note]] and modern paleontology do not agree when it comes to the Creation account and the Flood. One way this has been discussed and explored is the "evolution vs creation" debates.
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* ArtisticLicensePaleontology: The Book of Genesis[[note]]if one interprets it literally rather than symbolically[[/note]] and modern paleontology do not agree when it comes to the Creation account and the Flood. One way this has been discussed and explored is the "evolution vs creation" debates.
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* ValuesDissonance: [[RocksFallEverybodyDies Kill everybody, even the animals!]] Then [[FinalSolution kill the whole town. All of them]]. Let's just say that those moments are a big reason for why there's a massive BrokenBase and leave it at that.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: [[RocksFallEverybodyDies Kill everybody, even the animals!]] Then [[FinalSolution kill the whole town. All of them]]. Let's just say that those moments are a big reason for why there's a massive BrokenBase and leave it at that.
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None
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** There's actually a specific historical reason that the debate happens. You see, after the nations we know today as Judea and Israel were founded, a system of scribes were set up to preserve the holy books, copying the books EXACTLY as they had been written. This was considered a profession you had to train for, and is one of if not ''the'' reason the Bible is considered a historical document. Now obviously, the scribe system hadn't been set up until long after Genesis, so the picture isn't going to be as clear.
to:
** There's actually a specific historical One reason that for the debate happens. You see, is that after the nations we know today as Judea and Israel were founded, a system of scribes were set up to preserve the holy books, copying the books EXACTLY as they had been written. This was considered a profession you had to train for, and is one of if not ''the'' reason the reasons the Bible is considered a historical document. Now obviously, the scribe system hadn't been set up until long after Genesis, so the picture isn't going to be as clear.
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* DoubleStandard: Some people have put the blame of eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge solely on Eve, others on Adam. Others [[TakeAThirdOption put the blame on both]].
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sodomite is not a great word to use.
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
** Due to ValuesDissonance, Lot can come off as this for unbelievers when he offers his daughters to the sodomites. He's yet described as a righteous man in the New Testament.
to:
** Due to ValuesDissonance, Lot can come off as this for unbelievers when he offers his daughters to the sodomites.rapists. He's yet described as a righteous man in the New Testament.
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None
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* DesignatedVillain: Dinah's brothers. The narrative takes a dim view of their [[RapeAndRevenge getting revenge for Dinah's rape]].
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None
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* DesignatedHero: Due to ValuesDissonance, Lot can come off as this for unbelievers when he offers his daughters to the sodomites. He's yet described as a righteous man in the New Testament.
to:
* DesignatedHero: DesignatedHero:
** Due to ValuesDissonance, Lot can come off as this for unbelievers when he offers his daughters to the sodomites. He's yet described as a righteous man in the NewTestament.Testament.
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's rape. Shechem raped Dinah and kept her locked up in his castle until Jacob agreed to let him marry her. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but the reason behind it is understandable. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to a rapist? No, [[WhatTheHellHero he's worried that they've damaged his reputation.]]
** Due to ValuesDissonance, Lot can come off as this for unbelievers when he offers his daughters to the sodomites. He's yet described as a righteous man in the New
** Jacob gets a mild case in the story of Dinah's rape. Shechem raped Dinah and kept her locked up in his castle until Jacob agreed to let him marry her. [[BigBrotherInstinct Dinah's brothers]] [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge objected]]. They [[DisproportionateRetribution went too far in their revenge]], killing people who had nothing to do with it, but the reason behind it is understandable. Does Jacob care that they saved his daughter from being married to a rapist? No, [[WhatTheHellHero he's worried that they've damaged his reputation.]]
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** Joseph. Sold by his brothers to slavery, then wrongly accused of adultery. It takes a while before he [[EarnYourHappyEnding earns his happy ending]].
to:
** Joseph. Sold by his brothers to slavery, then wrongly accused of adultery. It takes a while before he [[EarnYourHappyEnding earns his happy ending]].ending]].
----
----
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* MoralEventHorizon: The men of Sodom attempt to gang rape a pair of angels to show that they are indeed full of sin.
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* ValuesDissonance: [[RocksFallEverybodyDies Kill everybody, even the animals!]] Then [[FinalSolution kill the whole town. All of them]]. For whatever reason.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: [[RocksFallEverybodyDies Kill everybody, even the animals!]] Then [[FinalSolution kill the whole town. All of them]]. For whatever reason.Let's just say that those moments are a big reason for why there's a massive BrokenBase and leave it at that.
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None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Joseph's RestrainedRevenge against his brothers may also have been a SecretTestOfCharacter, putting them into a position where they could again sell their half-brother into slavery, as they had done with him years prior.
to:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Joseph's RestrainedRevenge against his brothers may also have been a SecretTestOfCharacter, putting them into a position where they could again sell their half-brother (and their father's favourite) into slavery, as they had done with him years prior.
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None
Added DiffLines:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Joseph's RestrainedRevenge against his brothers may also have been a SecretTestOfCharacter, putting them into a position where they could again sell their half-brother into slavery, as they had done with him years prior.
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None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
** Joseph. Sold by his brothers to slavery, then wrongly accused of adultery. It takes a while before he earns his happy ending.
to:
** Joseph. Sold by his brothers to slavery, then wrongly accused of adultery. It takes a while before he [[EarnYourHappyEnding earns his happy ending.ending]].
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None
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** Joseph. Sell by his brothers to slavery then wrongly accused of adultary. It takes a while before he earns his happy ending.
to:
** Joseph. Sell Sold by his brothers to slavery slavery, then wrongly accused of adultary.adultery. It takes a while before he earns his happy ending.
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* DesignatedHero: Due to ValuesDissonance, Lot can come off as this for unbelievers when he offers his daughters to the sodomites. He's yet described as a righteous man in the New Testament.
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None
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
** Hagar becomes Abraham's concubine with his wife Sarah's consent and bears him a much-desired son, Ishmael. Later, once Sarah herself conceives and gives birth to Isaac, she has Abraham evict Hagar and Ishmael, who have to wander around in the wilderness before [[DeusExMachina God intervenes]].
to:
** Hagar becomes Abraham's concubine with his wife Sarah's consent and bears him a much-desired son, Ishmael. Later, once Sarah herself conceives and gives birth to Isaac, she has Abraham evict Hagar and Ishmael, who have to wander around in the wilderness before [[DeusExMachina God intervenes]].intervenes]].
** Joseph. Sell by his brothers to slavery then wrongly accused of adultary. It takes a while before he earns his happy ending.
** Joseph. Sell by his brothers to slavery then wrongly accused of adultary. It takes a while before he earns his happy ending.
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None
Added DiffLines:
** There's actually a specific historical reason that the debate happens. You see, after the nations we know today as Judea and Israel were founded, a system of scribes were set up to preserve the holy books, copying the books EXACTLY as they had been written. This was considered a profession you had to train for, and is one of if not ''the'' reason the Bible is considered a historical document. Now obviously, the scribe system hadn't been set up until long after Genesis, so the picture isn't going to be as clear.
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Moved from main page to YMMV section.
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Besides the creation story ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment no, we are not]] going to open ''that'' can of worms here), there is Melchizedek, the HighPriest who gave Abraham and Sarah bread, wine, and a blessing in the name of their {{God}}. Some uphold him as a metaphor or foreshadowing of Christ, others just see him as some priest-king-dude who did something nice for Abraham and Sarah.
to:
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Besides the creation story ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment no, we are not]] going to open ''that'' can of worms here), there is Melchizedek, the HighPriest who gave Abraham and Sarah bread, wine, and a blessing in the name of their {{God}}. Some uphold him as a metaphor or foreshadowing of Christ, others just see him as some priest-king-dude who did something nice for Abraham and Sarah.Sarah.
* TheWoobie:
** Isaac. His own father almost killed him. Later, his wife Rebecca and son Jacob conspire against him to trick him into giving Jacob the blessing.
** Hagar becomes Abraham's concubine with his wife Sarah's consent and bears him a much-desired son, Ishmael. Later, once Sarah herself conceives and gives birth to Isaac, she has Abraham evict Hagar and Ishmael, who have to wander around in the wilderness before [[DeusExMachina God intervenes]].
* TheWoobie:
** Isaac. His own father almost killed him. Later, his wife Rebecca and son Jacob conspire against him to trick him into giving Jacob the blessing.
** Hagar becomes Abraham's concubine with his wife Sarah's consent and bears him a much-desired son, Ishmael. Later, once Sarah herself conceives and gives birth to Isaac, she has Abraham evict Hagar and Ishmael, who have to wander around in the wilderness before [[DeusExMachina God intervenes]].
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None
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* BrokenBase: This, alongside the BookOfRevelation, is one of the most divisive books of the Bible. [[RuleOfCauthousEditingJudgment Let's just leave it at that.]]
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* BrokenBase: This, alongside the BookOfRevelation, is one of the most divisive books of the Bible. [[RuleOfCauthousEditingJudgment [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment Let's just leave it at that.]]
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* BrokenBase: This, alongside the BookOfRevelation, is one of the most divisive books of the Bible. [[RuleOfCauthousEditingJudgment Let's just leave it at that.]]
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When they heard some newcomers were in town, wasn\'t their first reaction to round up a rape posse?
Deleted line(s) 1 (click to see context) :
* {{Fanon}}: What exactly was the sin of Sodom?
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Moved from main page
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* OneSceneWonder:
** For being mentioned in all of one line, Methuselah is the subject of a lot of extra-biblical stuff.
** Nimrod is amazingly popular in folklore (the Tower of Babel was apparently built on his orders and he tried to have Abraham killed) and pop culture (shares the name as a villain from The X-Men).
** For being mentioned in all of one line, Methuselah is the subject of a lot of extra-biblical stuff.
** Nimrod is amazingly popular in folklore (the Tower of Babel was apparently built on his orders and he tried to have Abraham killed) and pop culture (shares the name as a villain from The X-Men).
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None
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* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Besides the creation story (no, we are not going to open ''that'' can of worms here), there is Melchizedek, the HighPriest who gave Abraham and Sarah bread, wine, and a blessing in the name of their {{God}}. Some uphold him as a metaphor or foreshadowing of Christ, others just see him as some priest-king-dude who did something nice for Abraham and Sarah.
to:
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Besides the creation story (no, ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment no, we are not not]] going to open ''that'' can of worms here), there is Melchizedek, the HighPriest who gave Abraham and Sarah bread, wine, and a blessing in the name of their {{God}}. Some uphold him as a metaphor or foreshadowing of Christ, others just see him as some priest-king-dude who did something nice for Abraham and Sarah.
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None
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* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic
to:
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidacticWhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Besides the creation story (no, we are not going to open ''that'' can of worms here), there is Melchizedek, the HighPriest who gave Abraham and Sarah bread, wine, and a blessing in the name of their {{God}}. Some uphold him as a metaphor or foreshadowing of Christ, others just see him as some priest-king-dude who did something nice for Abraham and Sarah.
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* ValuesDissonance: [[RocksFallEverybodyDies Kill everybody, even the animals!]] Then [[FinalSolution kill the whole town. All of them]]. For whatever reason.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: [[RocksFallEverybodyDies Kill everybody, even the animals!]] Then [[FinalSolution kill the whole town. All of them]]. For whatever reason.reason.
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic
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None
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* ValuesDissonance: [[RocksFallEverybodyDies Kill everybody, even the animals!]] Then[[FinalSolution kill the whole town. All of them.]] For whatever reason.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: [[RocksFallEverybodyDies Kill everybody, even the animals!]] Then[[FinalSolution Then [[FinalSolution kill the whole town. All of them.]] them]]. For whatever reason.
