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As noted before, Broken Base isn't just to give complain about the series, but to talk about conflicting opinions. There needs to be mentions of fans thinking opposite to qualify.
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*** Some folks have argued that the mandate of Lessons means Beasts have become people who use fear and violence on people "for their own good" - basically, abusers.
*** The above is a good reason why some people have called Beast "Abuser: The Justifying".
** And then there's the whole issue with the line attracting the same uncomfortable "otherkin" audience that TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming was infamously straddled with.
*** The above is a good reason why some people have called Beast "Abuser: The Justifying".
** And then there's the whole issue with the line attracting the same uncomfortable "otherkin" audience that TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming was infamously straddled with.
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** Heroes being the ''gameline's'' DesignatedVillain (as opposed to InUniverse, where they are the DesignatedHero) has struck a lot of players as wrong, due to the fact that Heroes are always mentally broken to begin with and can only be created by a Beast's starvation-induced depredations. It didn't help that some of the example heroes (and the way the game describes Heroes in general) was read by many readers as a StrawmanPolitical.
to:
** Heroes being the ''gameline's'' DesignatedVillain (as opposed to InUniverse, where they are the DesignatedHero) has struck a lot of players as wrong, due to the fact that Heroes are always mentally broken to begin with and can only be created by a Beast's starvation-induced depredations. It didn't help that some of the example heroes Heroes (and the way the game describes Heroes in general) was were read by many readers as a StrawmanPolitical.
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*** Often made worse by observations that, if this is the case, it's a fundamentally BrokenAesop, since Beasts ''are'' monsters and ''do'' terrorize people just by existing. Although it should be noted that heroes are created by -- and find it easier to locate -- Beasts with ''consistently low'' Satiety. I.e. the ones who have done ''less'' to victimize people in order to feed and have held off feeding for so long that they have ''starved'' their Soul and forced it to go hunting on its own. Beasts who indulge in their hunger, on the other hand, are less likely to trip the hero's radar.
to:
*** Often made worse by observations that, if this is the case, it's a fundamentally BrokenAesop, since Beasts ''are'' monsters and ''do'' terrorize people just by existing. Although it should be noted that heroes Heroes are created by -- and find it easier to locate -- Beasts with ''consistently low'' Satiety. I.e. the ones who have done ''less'' to victimize people in order to feed and have held off feeding for so long that they have ''starved'' their Soul and forced it to go hunting on its own. Beasts who indulge in their hunger, on the other hand, are less likely to trip the hero's Hero's radar.
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1) As noted here, this was in the first writing, not the current version; 2) Broken Base is about discussing how fans have conflicting opinions on the game, not a section where to put criticisms on the topic. Please use the Review section for that.
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*** Exacerbated in the first printing by the mismatch of the sample stories and the explanatory text: after a dozen paragraphs of AuthorFilibuster about how Heroes are a bunch of irredeemable psychos and Beasts are always the victim, three of the four sample stories are Beasts intentionally starting a fight with an initially unaware human and torturing the Hero until he breaks and comes after them, usually from a position of overwhelming social, economic, or physical advantage. Even the writers couldn't keep track of which side were the powerful establishment picking on the little guy!
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** After complains about Heroes being portrayed as one-dimensional strawmen, the final version of the book got a small paragraph establishing that yes, good Heroes who actually listen to reason, hunt down only malevolent supernaturals and help humanity in an actually productive way ''do'' exist- they just rarely cross paths with Beasts because they resist the urge to hunt them down, and as such aren't mentioned here. One of the sample Heroes, Sleeping Beauty, even was slightly retooled to make it clear she ''wasn't'' a sociopath. ''Conquering Heroes'' then came up, and provided multiple sample Heroes with more varied shades of grey, including some with some decent level of Integrity.
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only opponents offered in the book and being [[UnintentionallySympathetic too sympathetic]]. They also bring some diversity and additional lore to satisfy those complained about the book having too little variety in its antagonists and a lore to small to stand of its own.
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only opponents offered in the book and being [[UnintentionallySympathetic too sympathetic]]. They also bring some diversity and additional lore to satisfy those complained about the book having too little variety in its antagonists and a lore to small to stand of its own.
to:
** After complains about Heroes being portrayed as one-dimensional strawmen, the final version of the book got a small paragraph establishing that yes, good Heroes who actually listen to reason, hunt down only malevolent supernaturals and help humanity in an actually productive way ''do'' exist- they just rarely cross paths with Beasts because they resist the urge to hunt them down, and as such aren't mentioned here. One of the sample Heroes, Sleeping Beauty, even was slightly retooled to make it clear she ''wasn't'' a sociopath. ''Conquering Heroes'' then came up, and provided multiple sample Heroes with more varied shades of grey, including some ones with some decent level levels of Integrity.
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only opponents offered in the book and being [[UnintentionallySympathetic too sympathetic]]. They also bring some diversity and additional lore to satisfy those complained about the book having too little variety in its antagonists and a loreto too small to stand of its own.
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only opponents offered in the book and being [[UnintentionallySympathetic too sympathetic]]. They also bring some diversity and additional lore to satisfy those complained about the book having too little variety in its antagonists and a lore
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** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only opponents offered in the book and being [[UnintentionallySympathetic too sympathetic]].
to:
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only opponents offered in the book and being [[UnintentionallySympathetic too sympathetic]]. They also bring some diversity and additional lore to satisfy those complained about the book having too little variety in its antagonists and a lore to small to stand of its own.
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no one uses "transsexuals" anymore
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** Early versions of the backer draft seemed to focus heavily on HaveYouTriedNotBeingAMonster, with many people reading Beasts as an allegory for gays and transsexuals... which many readers felt lead to UnfortunateImplications given the intensely harmful and destructive nature of Beasts. The authors revised it to remove this implication (among other changes), saying it was unintentional, but in general the changes lead to a further multi-way BrokenBase between people who felt the changes adequately addressed the initial complaints, people who felt it didn't go far enough, people who felt the changes were unnecessary in the first place, and people who felt the changes entirely missed the point.
to:
** Early versions of the backer draft seemed to focus heavily on HaveYouTriedNotBeingAMonster, with many people reading Beasts as an allegory for gays and transsexuals...the LGBT community... which many readers felt lead to UnfortunateImplications given the intensely harmful and destructive nature of Beasts. The authors revised it to remove this implication (among other changes), saying it was unintentional, but in general the changes lead to a further multi-way BrokenBase between people who felt the changes adequately addressed the initial complaints, people who felt it didn't go far enough, people who felt the changes were unnecessary in the first place, and people who felt the changes entirely missed the point.
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** In general, Beasts being {{Designated Hero}}es. The final draft of the book admits that while the book is focused on their perspective, and as such tries to portray them as sympathetic, they can sometimes ''really'' be evil, and neither them nor Heroes are necessarly right-- at the end of the day, it's up to the players if they want to play their characters as straight villains or {{Reluctant Monster}}s.
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** Heroes being [[CreateYourOwnVillain Beasts' victims who got transformed by the abuse they suffered]] has long been dropped in favor of making them people with a sensitivity to the disturbances of the Primordial Dream, and they no longer are all narcissic iredeemable sociopaths with low Integrity; in fact, ''Conquering Heroes'' features several of them with high Integrity and who never got abused by Beasts before they got their abilities. Yet detractors still usually think of their earlier version when they complained about them being Strawmen and {{Designated Villain}}s.
** While the infamous "teaching Lessons" was added later through rewriting, the final version of the book makes it clear not all Beasts adhere to this way of thinking, that some of them just use it as an excuse and that it doesn't necessarly make them in the right (one of the texts in the book involves a [[TabletopGame/MummyTheCurse Mummy]] questionning whether humans even still ''need'' to learn these lessons at this point and suggest Beasts are just DesperatelyLookingForAPurposeInLife).
* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot, no matter how good their relationships previously were: [[EvilMatriarch Marian Jones]] immediatly went from loving, perfect {{Housewife}} to [[OffingTheOffspring trying to murder her son]] the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
** While the infamous "teaching Lessons" was added later through rewriting, the final version of the book makes it clear not all Beasts adhere to this way of thinking, that some of them just use it as an excuse and that it doesn't necessarly make them in the right (one of the texts in the book involves a [[TabletopGame/MummyTheCurse Mummy]] questionning whether humans even still ''need'' to learn these lessons at this point and suggest Beasts are just DesperatelyLookingForAPurposeInLife).
* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot, no matter how good their relationships previously were: [[EvilMatriarch Marian Jones]] immediatly went from loving, perfect {{Housewife}} to [[OffingTheOffspring trying to murder her son]] the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
to:
** Heroes being [[CreateYourOwnVillain Beasts' victims who got transformed by the abuse they suffered]] has long been dropped in favor of making them people with a sensitivity to the disturbances of the Primordial Dream, and they no longer are all narcissic iredeemable narcissistic irredeemable sociopaths with low Integrity; in fact, ''Conquering Heroes'' features several of them with high Integrity and who never got abused by Beasts before they got their abilities. Yet detractors still usually think of their earlier version when they complained about them being Strawmen and {{Designated Villain}}s.
** While the infamous "teaching Lessons" was added later through rewriting, the final version of the book makes it clear not all Beasts adhere to this way of thinking, that some of them just use it as an excuse and that it doesn'tnecessarly necessarily make them in the right (one of the texts in the book involves a [[TabletopGame/MummyTheCurse Mummy]] questionning questioning whether humans even still ''need'' to learn these lessons at this point and suggest Beasts are just DesperatelyLookingForAPurposeInLife).
* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almostimmediatly immediately tried to kill them on the spot, no matter how good their relationships previously were: [[EvilMatriarch Marian Jones]] immediatly immediately went from loving, perfect {{Housewife}} to [[OffingTheOffspring trying to murder her son]] the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly immediately killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
** While the infamous "teaching Lessons" was added later through rewriting, the final version of the book makes it clear not all Beasts adhere to this way of thinking, that some of them just use it as an excuse and that it doesn't
* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost
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** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only opponents offered in the book and being [[DesignatedHero too sympathetic]].
to:
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only opponents offered in the book and being [[DesignatedHero [[UnintentionallySympathetic too sympathetic]].
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* NeverLiveItDown: Many of the criticisms this game were actually aimed at the earlier preview, and were either removed or toned down in the final version of the book, yet fans still complain about them when listing the reasons they dislike this game. Most notably:
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* NeverLiveItDown: Many of the criticisms this game gets were actually aimed at the earlier preview, and were either removed or toned down in the final version of the book, yet fans still complain about them when listing the reasons they dislike this game. Most notably:
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* NeverLiveItDown: Many of the criticisms this game were actually aimed at the earlier preview, and were either removed or toned down in the final version of the book, yet fans still complain about them when listing the reasons they dislike this game. Most notably:
** Heroes being [[CreateYourOwnVillain Beasts' victims who got transformed by the abuse they suffered]] has long been dropped in favor of making them people with a sensitivity to the disturbances of the Primordial Dream, and they no longer are all narcissic iredeemable sociopaths with low Integrity; in fact, ''Conquering Heroes'' features several of them with high Integrity and who never got abused by Beasts before they got their abilities. Yet detractors still usually think of their earlier version when they complained about them being Strawmen and {{Designated Villain}}s.
** While the infamous "teaching Lessons" was added later through rewriting, the final version of the book makes it clear not all Beasts adhere to this way of thinking, that some of them just use it as an excuse and that it doesn't necessarly make them in the right (one of the texts in the book involves a [[TabletopGame/MummyTheCurse Mummy]] questionning whether humans even still ''need'' to learn these lessons at this point and suggest Beasts are just DesperatelyLookingForAPurposeInLife).
** Heroes being [[CreateYourOwnVillain Beasts' victims who got transformed by the abuse they suffered]] has long been dropped in favor of making them people with a sensitivity to the disturbances of the Primordial Dream, and they no longer are all narcissic iredeemable sociopaths with low Integrity; in fact, ''Conquering Heroes'' features several of them with high Integrity and who never got abused by Beasts before they got their abilities. Yet detractors still usually think of their earlier version when they complained about them being Strawmen and {{Designated Villain}}s.
** While the infamous "teaching Lessons" was added later through rewriting, the final version of the book makes it clear not all Beasts adhere to this way of thinking, that some of them just use it as an excuse and that it doesn't necessarly make them in the right (one of the texts in the book involves a [[TabletopGame/MummyTheCurse Mummy]] questionning whether humans even still ''need'' to learn these lessons at this point and suggest Beasts are just DesperatelyLookingForAPurposeInLife).
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*** Exacerbated in the first printing by the mismatch of the sample stories and the explanatory text: after a dozen paragraphs of AuthorFilibuster about how Heroes are a bunch of irredeemable psychos and Beasts are always the victim, three of the four sample stories are Beasts intentionally starting a fight with an initially unaware human and torturing the Hero until he breaks and comes after them, usually from a position of overwhelming social, economic, or physical advantage. Even the writers couldn't keep track of which side were the powerful establishment picking on the little guy!
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** After complains about Heroes being portrayed as one-dimensional strawmen, the final version of the book got a small paragraph establishing that yes, good Heroes who actually listen to reason, hunt down only malevolent supernaturals and help humanity in an actually productive way ''do'' exist- they just rarely cross paths with Beasts because they resist the urge to hunt them down, and as such aren't mentioned here. One of the sample Heroes, Sleeping Beauty, even was slightly retooled to make it clear she ''wasn't'' a sociopath. Moreover, a book focusing on them specifically, ''Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes'', was announced.
to:
** After complains about Heroes being portrayed as one-dimensional strawmen, the final version of the book got a small paragraph establishing that yes, good Heroes who actually listen to reason, hunt down only malevolent supernaturals and help humanity in an actually productive way ''do'' exist- they just rarely cross paths with Beasts because they resist the urge to hunt them down, and as such aren't mentioned here. One of the sample Heroes, Sleeping Beauty, even was slightly retooled to make it clear she ''wasn't'' a sociopath. Moreover, a book focusing on them specifically, ''Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes'', was announced.''Conquering Heroes'' then came up, and provided multiple sample Heroes with more varied shades of grey, including some with some decent level of Integrity.
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* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot, no matter how good their relationships previously were: Marian Jones immediatly went from loving, perfect housewife to trying to murder her son the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
to:
* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot, no matter how good their relationships previously were: [[EvilMatriarch Marian Jones Jones]] immediatly went from loving, perfect housewife {{Housewife}} to [[OffingTheOffspring trying to murder her son son]] the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
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* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot: Marian Jones immediatly went from loving, perfect housewife to trying to murder her son the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
to:
* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot: spot, no matter how good their relationships previously were: Marian Jones immediatly went from loving, perfect housewife to trying to murder her son the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
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* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot: Marian Jones immediatly went from "perfect housewife" to trying to kill her son the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
to:
* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot: Marian Jones immediatly went from "perfect housewife" loving, perfect housewife to trying to kill murder her son the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
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* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot.
to:
* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot.spot: Marian Jones immediatly went from "perfect housewife" to trying to kill her son the moment her transformation happened, and Daniel Greene immediatly killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
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* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediatly tried to kill them on the spot.
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* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: After complains about Heroes being too one-dimensional and UnintentionallySympathetic, the final version of the book retooled them to clarify not all of them were self-imbued sociopaths, and ''Conquering Heroes'' exploded a bit more what makes them, giving them more depth and complex sample characters in the process. Many fans are starting to feel their concept has officially been redeemed compared to earlier drafts.
to:
* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: After complains about Heroes being too one-dimensional and UnintentionallySympathetic, the final version of the book retooled them to clarify not all of them were self-imbued sociopaths, and ''Conquering Heroes'' exploded explored a bit more what makes them, giving them more depth and complex sample characters in the process. Many fans are starting to feel their concept has officially been redeemed compared to earlier drafts.
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** Beasts are a race of mythical monsters in human skin, and even from birth have the urge to dominate, destroy, and devour. That instinct comes packaged with a human conscience, and even after Homecoming [[ThenLetMeBeEvil and their imminent acceptance they've never been really human]], it remains. To make it worse, following their urges actually is the ''best'' option, as if they don't feed, their Soul will take the initiative and MindRape humans in their dreams, whether the Beasts themselves want it or not. Quite simply, they're what happens when an AlwaysChaoticEvil species is aware of what they are, and ''hate'' it.
to:
** Beasts are a race of mythical monsters in human skin, and even from birth have the urge to dominate, destroy, and devour. That instinct comes packaged with a human conscience, and even after Homecoming Devouring [[ThenLetMeBeEvil and their imminent acceptance they've never been really human]], it remains. To make it worse, following their urges actually is the ''best'' option, as if they don't feed, their Soul Horror will take the initiative and MindRape humans in their dreams, whether the Beasts themselves want it or not. Quite simply, they're what happens when an AlwaysChaoticEvil species is aware of what they are, and ''hate'' it.
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** Heroes are (usually) psychotic (always) narcissists who will cheerfully ignore logic, reality, and common sense if it means they were always right all along. They got this way because, frankly, being a Hero ''[[BrokenAce is all they have]]''; before they picked up the quest, they were fundamentally broken individuals who were so ''desperate'' to have a self-identity that "killing monsters that look like people" was about the only thing that could let them ''not'' be themselves. Some Heroes are genuine villains and entitled brats with guns, but the majority, as mentioned by the Storytelling chapter, should come with an incredible dose of ambivalence for this person who [[TheUnfettered has no lines he won't cross]], and yet desperately ''needs'' you (you being a Beast, who likely ''created him'') to feel some sense of worth.
to:
** Heroes are (usually) psychotic (always) narcissists who will cheerfully ignore logic, reality, and common sense if it means they were always right all along. They got this way because, frankly, being a Hero ''[[BrokenAce is all they have]]''; before they picked up the quest, they were fundamentally broken individuals who were so ''desperate'' to have a self-identity that "killing monsters that look like people" was about the only thing that could let them ''not'' be themselves. Some Heroes are genuine villains and entitled brats with guns, but the majority, as mentioned by the Storytelling chapter, should come with an incredible dose of ambivalence for this person who [[TheUnfettered has no lines he won't cross]], and yet desperately ''needs'' you (you being a Beast, who likely ''created him'') to feel some sense of worth.worth.
* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: After complains about Heroes being too one-dimensional and UnintentionallySympathetic, the final version of the book retooled them to clarify not all of them were self-imbued sociopaths, and ''Conquering Heroes'' exploded a bit more what makes them, giving them more depth and complex sample characters in the process. Many fans are starting to feel their concept has officially been redeemed compared to earlier drafts.
* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: After complains about Heroes being too one-dimensional and UnintentionallySympathetic, the final version of the book retooled them to clarify not all of them were self-imbued sociopaths, and ''Conquering Heroes'' exploded a bit more what makes them, giving them more depth and complex sample characters in the process. Many fans are starting to feel their concept has officially been redeemed compared to earlier drafts.
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** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only antagonist in the book and being [[DesignatedHero too sympathetic]].
to:
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only antagonist opponents offered in the book and being [[DesignatedHero too sympathetic]].
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** After complains about Heroes being portrayed as one-dimensional strawmen, the final version of the book got a small paragraph establishing that yes, good Heroes who actually listen to reason, hunt down only malevolent supernaturals and help humanity in an actually productive way ''do'' exist- they just rarely cross paths with Beasts because they resist the urge to hunt them down, and as such aren't mentioned here. One of the sample Heroes, Sleeping Beauty, even was slightly retooled to make it clear she ''wasn't'' a sociopath. Moreover, a book focusing on them specifically, ''Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes'', has recently been confirmed.
to:
** After complains about Heroes being portrayed as one-dimensional strawmen, the final version of the book got a small paragraph establishing that yes, good Heroes who actually listen to reason, hunt down only malevolent supernaturals and help humanity in an actually productive way ''do'' exist- they just rarely cross paths with Beasts because they resist the urge to hunt them down, and as such aren't mentioned here. One of the sample Heroes, Sleeping Beauty, even was slightly retooled to make it clear she ''wasn't'' a sociopath. Moreover, a book focusing on them specifically, ''Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes'', has recently been confirmed.was announced.
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only antagonist in the book and being [[DesignatedHero too sympathetic]].
** The Insatiable from ''Conquering Heroes'' were probably introduced as an attempt to give new antagonists who genuinely ''were'' eviler than the Begotten, in response to the complains about Heroes being the only antagonist in the book and being [[DesignatedHero too sympathetic]].
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** After complains about Heroes being portrayed as one-dimensional strawmen, the final version of the book got a small paragraph establishing that yes, good Heroes who actually listen to reason, hunt down only malevolent supernaturals and help humanity in an actually productive way ''do'' exist- they just rarely cross paths with Beasts because they resist the urge to hunt them down, and as such aren't mentioned here (suggesting we might get a separate book about them later). One of the sample Heroes, Sleeping Beauty, even was slightly retooled to make it clear she ''wasn't'' a sociopath.
to:
** After complains about Heroes being portrayed as one-dimensional strawmen, the final version of the book got a small paragraph establishing that yes, good Heroes who actually listen to reason, hunt down only malevolent supernaturals and help humanity in an actually productive way ''do'' exist- they just rarely cross paths with Beasts because they resist the urge to hunt them down, and as such aren't mentioned here (suggesting we might get a separate book about them later).here. One of the sample Heroes, Sleeping Beauty, even was slightly retooled to make it clear she ''wasn't'' a sociopath. Moreover, a book focusing on them specifically, ''Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes'', has recently been confirmed.
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* EnsembleDarkhorse: Nemeses seem to be the most popular Hunger among fans, seeing how it's the easiest to [[KickTheSonOfABitch channel in a positive way.]]
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* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Beasts consider all Supernaturals aside from Demons their distant cousins, and have a very strong sense of family. Because of this, their Broods welcome any kind of Supernaturals to join them, and Begotten who form relationships with other supernaturals (or even humans) tend to become fiercely protective of them. This actually results in occasionally nice interactions, such as a [[TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem Carthian Daeva]] mentioning he once spent some time living in a Brood, and actually was treated more like family than with any of his own peers.
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** And then there's the whole issue with the line attracting the same uncomfortable "otherkin" audience that [[TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming]] was infamously straddled with.
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** And then there's the whole issue with the line attracting the same uncomfortable "otherkin" audience that [[TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming]] TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming was infamously straddled with.
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** And then there's the whole issue with the line attracting the same uncomfortable "otherkin" audience that [[TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming]] was infamously straddled with.
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Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Beasts consider all Supernaturals aside from Demons their distant cousins, and have a very strong sense of family. Because of this, their Broods welcome any kind of Supernaturals to join them, and Begotten who form relationships with other supernaturals (or even humans) tend to become fiercely protective of them. This actually results in occasionally nice interactions, such as a [[TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem Carthian Daeva]] mentioning he once spent some time living in a Brood, and actually was treated more like family than any of his own peers ever did.
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* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Beasts consider all Supernaturals aside from Demons their distant cousins, and have a very strong sense of family. Because of this, their Broods welcome any kind of Supernaturals to join them, and Begotten who form relationships with other supernaturals (or even humans) tend to become fiercely protective of them. This actually results in occasionally nice interactions, such as a [[TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem Carthian Daeva]] mentioning he once spent some time living in a Brood, and actually was treated more like family than with any of his own peers ever did.peers.
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* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarmning: Beasts consider all Supernaturals aside from Demons their distant cousins, and have a very strong sense of family. Because of this, their Broods welcome any kind of Supernaturals to join them, and Begotten who form relationships with other supernaturals (or even humans) tend to become fiercely protective of them. This actually results in occasionally nice interactions, such as a [[TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem Carthian Daeva]] mentioning he once spent some time living in a Brood, and actually was treated more like family than any of his own peers ever did.
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* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarmning: CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Beasts consider all Supernaturals aside from Demons their distant cousins, and have a very strong sense of family. Because of this, their Broods welcome any kind of Supernaturals to join them, and Begotten who form relationships with other supernaturals (or even humans) tend to become fiercely protective of them. This actually results in occasionally nice interactions, such as a [[TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem Carthian Daeva]] mentioning he once spent some time living in a Brood, and actually was treated more like family than any of his own peers ever did.
