Line #14 YMMV/BeastThePrimordial


1	* BrokenBase: The game earned a lot of controversy, even back when only the playtest versions and developmental teasers were revealed:
2	** The Begotten's mythical background and claiming other monsters as their kin has led to complaints that their personal mythology lacks identity and is a bit overbearing. This was partially addressed with the rework since the early editions.
3	** A very vocal complaint accusing the designers of shoehorning a ham-handed "minorities vs. oppressors" and/or "intolerance is morally wrong" motif into the game design via the Beast/Hero conflict.
4	*** Often made worse by observations that, if this is the case, it's a fundamentally BrokenAesop, since Beasts ''are'' monsters and ''do'' terrorize people just by existing. Although it should be noted that Heroes are created by -- and find it easier to locate -- Beasts with ''consistently low'' Satiety. I.e., the ones who have done ''less'' to victimize people in order to feed and have held off feeding for so long that they have ''starved'' their Soul and forced it to go hunting on its own. Beasts who indulge in their hunger, on the other hand, are less likely to trip the Hero's radar.
5	** Early versions of the backer draft seemed to focus heavily on HaveYouTriedNotBeingAMonster, with many people reading Beasts as an allegory for the LGBTQ+ community... which many readers felt did not read well given the intensely harmful and destructive nature of Beasts. The authors revised it to remove this implication (among other changes), saying it was unintentional, but in general the changes led to a further multi-way BrokenBase between those who felt the changes adequately addressed the initial complaints, those who felt it didn't go far enough, those who felt the changes were unnecessary in the first place, and those who felt the changes entirely missed the point.
6	** One BrokenBase began because some people had bought into ''Beast'' specifically ''because'' they saw it as relevant to such issues, which the rework seemed to have toned down. Where previously a human became a Beast by accepting the Beastly Soul they always had, coming into touch with their true nature, now they agree to have their souls devoured and replaced by a Beastly Horror. The game has a middle ground, however; it's not unheard of for Beasts to find their Horror as their true selves without guidance, and InUniverse Beasts debate whether they were always that way or not. Players are free to choose either approach.
7	** Then there's the argument of whether Beasts' new cultural belief that their purpose of teaching wisdom through fear is a great way to make them relatively productive members of society while feeding their Hunger, or just gives them a new mandate to hurt people. The argument tends to skirt around the fact that Beasts can get feed their Hunger by simply watching another supernatural feed their own "hunger", such as a Changeling gathering Glamour from someone, and that other supernaturals (such as vampires and werewolves) can be far more lethal in feeding their own HorrorHunger. This actually gets discussed in-universe with The Union blurb comparing this to mundane abusers "teaching" in the same way.
8	* CriticalBacklash: The game attracted ''considerable'' backlash, especially early on; some of the reasons (especially the HaveYouTriedNotBeingAMonster issues) were specific to early drafts and were later addressed.
9	* DesignatedHero: One of the core criticisms of this splat is that Beasts make a pretense to being a positive force for humanity due to the "teaching lessons" motive that some of them purportedly share. The thing is that Beasts are creatures of primordial nightmare, but most of them do not act like TheCowl or the TerrorHero. The fluff around them also includes a great deal of DisproportionateRetribution and EvilIsPetty moments, making most Beasts look like violent and frankly evil people, several fluff examples in the core book were effectively serial killers. Their "crossover friendliness" basically amounts to all other splats (except demons) inexplicably liking them, obliging them, and acknowledging them as first among equals if not superiors by virtue of being the "elder" type of supernaturals even if this [[CanonDefilement makes no sense with a splat's own lore]].
10	* DracoInLeatherPants: Many readers accuse the ''game itself'' of giving Beasts this treatment; especially in earlier drafts, it went out of its way to excuse Beasts and demonize Heroes, despite describing situations that made the Beasts come across as abusive.
11	* EnsembleDarkhorse: Nemeses seem to be the most popular Hunger among fans, seeing how it's the easiest to [[SmitingEvilFeelsGood channel in a positive way]].
12	* FanficFuel: Beasts have an entire set of rules specifically designed to cooperate with other supernaturals in order to encourage crossovers, which can be fun to try adapting to fan supplements. After all, wouldn't you be interested in how Beasts would interact with [[TabletopGame/GeniusTheTransgression Geniuses]], [[TabletopGame/PrincessTheHopeful Princesses]] or [[TabletopGame/LeviathanTheTempest Leviathans]]?
13	* FandomEnragingMisconception: Many of the criticisms this game gets were actually aimed at the earlier preview, and were either removed or toned down in the final version of the book, yet fans still complain about them when listing the reasons they dislike this game. Most notably:
14	** Heroes being [[CreateYourOwnVillain Beasts' victims who got transformed by the abuse they suffered]] has long been dropped in favor of making them people with a sensitivity to the disturbances of the Primordial Dream, and they no longer are all narcissistic irredeemable sociopaths with low Integrity; in fact, ''Conquering Heroes'' features several with high Integrity and who never got abused by Beasts before they got their abilities. Yet detractors still usually think of their earlier version when they complained about them being Strawmen and {{Designated Villain}}s.
15	** While the infamous "teaching Lessons" was added later through rewriting, the final version of the book makes it clear not all Beasts adhere to this way of thinking, that some just use it as an excuse, and that it doesn't necessarily make them in the right (one of the texts in the book involves a [[TabletopGame/MummyTheCurse mummy]] questioning whether humans even still ''need'' to learn these lessons at this point and suggest Beasts are just DesperatelyLookingForAPurposeInLife).
16	** In general, Beasts being {{Designated Hero}}es. The final draft of the book admits that while the book is focused on their perspective, and as such tries to portray them as sympathetic, they can sometimes ''really'' be evil, and neither them nor Heroes are necessarly right -- at the end of the day, it's up to the players if they want to play their characters as straight villains or {{Reluctant Monster}}s.
17	* HarsherInHindsight: In the ''TabletopGame/HunterTheVigil'' splatbook for ''Beast'', a Hunter explicitly compares Beasts' attitude that their need to feed is perfectly natural and that they're doing their victims a favor anyway to a neighborhood elementary school teacher who had molested him and others as a child, possibly echoing concerns of real-life detractors about the game line. ''Beast's'' head writer, Matt [=McFarland=], was later fired by Onyx Path and [=RPGnet=] in the wake of child molestation charges.
18	* JerkassWoobie: Beasts ''and'' Heroes. To wit:
19	** Beasts are a race of mythical monsters in human skin, and even from birth have the urge to dominate, destroy, and devour. That instinct comes packaged with a human conscience, and even after Devouring [[ThenLetMeBeEvil and their imminent acceptance they've never been really human]], it remains. To make it worse, following their urges actually is the ''best'' option, as if they don't feed, their Horror will take the initiative and MindRape humans in their dreams, whether the Beasts themselves want it or not. Quite simply, they're what happens when an AlwaysChaoticEvil species is aware of what they are, and ''hate'' it.
20	** Heroes are (usually) psychotic (always) narcissists who will cheerfully ignore logic, reality, and common sense if it means they were always right all along. They got this way because, frankly, being a Hero ''[[BrokenAce is all they have]]''; before they picked up the quest, they were fundamentally broken individuals who were so ''desperate'' to have a self-identity that "killing monsters that look like people" was about the only thing that could let them ''not'' be themselves. Some Heroes are genuine villains and entitled brats with guns, but the majority, as mentioned in the Storytelling chapter, should come with an incredible dose of ambivalence for this person who [[TheUnfettered has no lines he won't cross]], and yet desperately ''needs'' you (you being a Beast, who likely ''created him'') to feel some sense of worth.
21	* ParanoiaFuel: ''Anyone'' around a Beast can potentially become a Hero, including relatives and loved ones. Both the main rulebook and ''Conquering Heroes'' provide multiple examples of Beasts whose best friends, lovers, or family members turned Heroes and almost immediately tried to kill them on the spot, no matter how good their relationships previously were: [[EvilMatriarch Marian Jones]] immediately went from loving, perfect {{Housewife}} to [[OffingTheOffspring trying to murder her son]] the moment her transformation happened; and Daniel Greene immediately killed his beloved boyfriend upon his.
22	* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: After complaints about Heroes being too one-dimensional and UnintentionallySympathetic, the final version of the book retooled them to clarify not all of them were self-imbued sociopaths, and ''Conquering Heroes'' explored what makes them a bit more, giving them depth and complex sample characters in the process. Many fans are starting to feel their concept has officially been redeemed compared to earlier drafts.
23	* RonTheDeathEater: In tandem with the accusations of DracoInLeatherPants towards Beasts, readers often accuse Heroes of getting this treatment.

Context YMMV / BeastThePrimordial