Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / BatmanUnderTheRedHood

Go To



** Red Hood killing the Joker would not be this. Him [[spoiler:handing Batman a pistol and telling ''him'' to do it would be, as it boils down to Red Hood wanting Bruce to break his moral code for his sake, when he's had the time and opportunity to kill the Joker himself if he really wanted to.]] If that doesn't count, he definitely crosses it when he [[spoiler:fires at Batman when he tries to walk away.]]

to:

** Red Hood killing the Joker would not be this. Him [[spoiler:handing Batman a pistol and telling ''him'' to do it would be, as it boils down to is. Red Hood wanting Bruce to break his moral code for his sake, when he's has had the ample time and opportunity to kill the Joker himself if he really wanted to.to, but here he shows that what he ''really'' wants is for Batman to demonstrate he'd be willing to break his moral code for the Red Hood's sake, a demand that boils down to Red Hood's selfish interest that Batman demonstrate he's the most important person in his life.]] If that still doesn't count, he definitely crosses it when he [[spoiler:fires at Batman when he tries to walk away.]]



* StrawmanHasAPoint: Like in the comic, Red Hood raises a good point on the naivety behind the idea that Batman would not only let the Joker continue to live, but would stop other heroes and villains from killing him, even though the Joker has killed thousands and will kill thousands more in the future. While Batman defends that he ''does'' think about killing Joker and doesn't because he's worried about JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope, it's willful ignorance on his part -- most other members of his Rogues Gallery have temporarily reformed before, or at least there is a real chance they'll reform someday, but the Joker never will and everyone knows it. If there is ''one'' time where Batman could break his code, and people in-universe and out would understand why, it's the Joker, and Batman's argument on why he shouldn't are much weaker than Red Hood's arguments on why he should.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: Like in the comic, Red Hood raises a good point on the naivety points behind Batman's refusal to kill the idea that Joker. Not only will Batman would not only let the Joker continue to live, kill him, but would stop he's stopped other heroes and villains from killing him, even though the Joker has killed thousands and will kill thousands more in the future. While Batman defends that he ''does'' think about killing Joker and doesn't because he's worried about JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope, it's willful ignorance on his part -- most other members of his Rogues Gallery have temporarily reformed before, or at least there is a real chance they'll reform someday, but the Joker never will and everyone knows it. If there is ''one'' time where Batman could break his code, and people in-universe and out would understand why, it's the Joker, and Batman's argument on why he shouldn't are is much weaker than Red Hood's arguments on why he should.


* StrawmanHasAPoint: Like in the comic, Red Hood raises a good point on the naivety behind the idea that Batman would not only let the Joker continue to live, but would stop other heroes and villains from killing him, even though the Joker has killed thousands and will kill thousands more in the future. While Batman defends that he ''does'' think about killing Joker and doesn't because he's worried about JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope, it's willful ignorance -- most other members of his Rogues Gallery have reformed at least temporarily, or at least have a hope of doing so, but the Joker never will and everyone knows it. If there is ''one'' time where Batman could break his code and it would be mostly accepted by fans and the Bat family alike, it's the Joker, and Batman's argument on why he shouldn't are much weaker than Red Hood's arguments on why he should.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: Like in the comic, Red Hood raises a good point on the naivety behind the idea that Batman would not only let the Joker continue to live, but would stop other heroes and villains from killing him, even though the Joker has killed thousands and will kill thousands more in the future. While Batman defends that he ''does'' think about killing Joker and doesn't because he's worried about JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope, it's willful ignorance on his part -- most other members of his Rogues Gallery have temporarily reformed at least temporarily, before, or at least have there is a hope of doing so, real chance they'll reform someday, but the Joker never will and everyone knows it. If there is ''one'' time where Batman could break his code code, and it people in-universe and out would be mostly accepted by fans and the Bat family alike, understand why, it's the Joker, and Batman's argument on why he shouldn't are much weaker than Red Hood's arguments on why he should.


* EnsembleDarkhorse: In ''spades''. There's Nightwing, the Fearsome Hand of Four, and Ms. Li.

to:

* EnsembleDarkhorse: In ''spades''. There's Nightwing, EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Nightwing as depicted here is a DeadpanSnarker played by Creator/NeilPatrickHarris, and his comparatively diminished role hasn't made
the fans love him any less.
** The
Fearsome Hand of Four, and despite their limited screen time, are also quite popular as a group of badass [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot cyborg ninja]].
**
Ms. Li.Li is also quite popular for being a ComicallySerious {{foil}} to the LaughablyEvil LargeHam Black Mask.


** The comic itself is somewhat of an ''inversion''. A popular phrase used to be "Nobody stays dead in comics except [[spoiler: [[ComicBook/BuckyBarnes Bucky]], Jason Todd]], and [[ComicBook/SpiderMan]]". Due to ''ComicBook/CaptainAmericaWinterSoldier'' being released the same year, Uncle Ben is now the only one who's ''stayed'' dead[[note]]not counting a very brief time he was resurrected in issue #500 of ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan[[/note]].

to:

** The comic itself is somewhat of an ''inversion''. A popular phrase used to be "Nobody stays dead in comics except [[spoiler: [[ComicBook/BuckyBarnes Bucky]], Jason Todd]], and [[ComicBook/SpiderMan]]".[[ComicBook/SpiderMan Uncle Ben]]". Due to ''ComicBook/CaptainAmericaWinterSoldier'' being released the same year, Uncle Ben is now the only one who's ''stayed'' dead[[note]]not counting a very brief time he was resurrected in issue #500 of ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan[[/note]].

Added DiffLines:

** The comic itself is somewhat of an ''inversion''. A popular phrase used to be "Nobody stays dead in comics except [[spoiler: [[ComicBook/BuckyBarnes Bucky]], Jason Todd]], and [[ComicBook/SpiderMan]]". Due to ''ComicBook/CaptainAmericaWinterSoldier'' being released the same year, Uncle Ben is now the only one who's ''stayed'' dead[[note]]not counting a very brief time he was resurrected in issue #500 of ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan[[/note]].


** Jason killing the Joker would not be this. Him [[spoiler:handing Batman a pistol and telling ''him'' to do it would be, as it boils down to Jason wanting Bruce to break his moral code for his sake, when he's had the time and opportunity to kill the Joker himself if he really wanted to.]]

to:

** Jason Red Hood killing the Joker would not be this. Him [[spoiler:handing Batman a pistol and telling ''him'' to do it would be, as it boils down to Jason Red Hood wanting Bruce to break his moral code for his sake, when he's had the time and opportunity to kill the Joker himself if he really wanted to.]] If that doesn't count, he definitely crosses it when he [[spoiler:fires at Batman when he tries to walk away.]]


* JerkassWoobie:
%%** [[spoiler: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood.]]

to:

* JerkassWoobie:
%%**
JerkassWoobie: [[spoiler: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood.]]]] He may be a murderer who straddles the line of AntiHero and AntiVillain, but damn if you don't feel sorry for him and even understand some of what he does.



** Jason killing the Joker would not be this. Him [[spoiler: handing Batman the pistol and telling him ''he'' has to do it qualifies to some.]]

to:

** Jason killing the Joker would not be this. Him [[spoiler: handing [[spoiler:handing Batman the a pistol and telling him ''he'' has ''him'' to do it qualifies would be, as it boils down to some.Jason wanting Bruce to break his moral code for his sake, when he's had the time and opportunity to kill the Joker himself if he really wanted to.]]



* StrawmanHasAPoint: Like in the comic, Red Hood raises a good point on the naivety behind the idea that someone like [[JokerImmunity the Joker can continue to walk the earth]] even though he'll continue to kill thousands. And the fact that it's a logical fallacy to say killing the Joker would make Batman accept killing any criminal, when Joker has been the one villain who has never shown ''any'' capability of possible redemption in any form, unlike the rest of the Rogues Gallery. He's also right about Batman not being able to stop crime -- how long has Batman been trying without any success? And sometimes he even manages to make it worse.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: Like in the comic, Red Hood raises a good point on the naivety behind the idea that someone like [[JokerImmunity Batman would not only let the Joker can continue to walk the earth]] live, but would stop other heroes and villains from killing him, even though he'll continue to the Joker has killed thousands and will kill thousands. And thousands more in the fact future. While Batman defends that he ''does'' think about killing Joker and doesn't because he's worried about JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope, it's willful ignorance -- most other members of his Rogues Gallery have reformed at least temporarily, or at least have a logical fallacy to say killing hope of doing so, but the Joker would make never will and everyone knows it. If there is ''one'' time where Batman accept killing any criminal, when Joker has been could break his code and it would be mostly accepted by fans and the one villain who has never shown ''any'' capability of possible redemption in any form, unlike Bat family alike, it's the rest of the Rogues Gallery. He's also right about Batman not being able to stop crime -- how long has Batman been trying without any success? And sometimes Joker, and Batman's argument on why he even manages to make it worse.shouldn't are much weaker than Red Hood's arguments on why he should.


** [[spoiler: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood.]]

to:

** %%** [[spoiler: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood.]]


* CounterpartComparison: A ''lot'' of people noted Red Hood's resemblance to SelfDemonstrating/{{Deadpool}} when the first trailers went online. The similarities are even more marked in the actual film, where the character behaves near-identically to Deadpool in the latter's earlier appearances.


* MagnificentBastard: [[Characters/{{Robin}} Jason Todd]], after his death at the hands of ComicBook/TheJoker and his revival, becomes a much darker figure. Becoming the Red Hood, Jason sets about on his revenge, manipulating Batman, Gotham's criminal enterprises and even the League of Assassins to engineer conflicts to bring him close to the Joker and Batman. Confronting his former mentor, Jason reveals his deep bitterness at the Joker's survival, declaring he believed he would be the last person Batman ever let the Joker hurt. With a manipulative genius to rival even Batman and a hunger to see his own brutal justice enacted, Jason shows he is more than a match for the world's greatest Detective.

to:

* MagnificentBastard: [[Characters/{{Robin}} Jason Todd]], Todd, after his death at the hands of ComicBook/TheJoker and his revival, becomes a much darker figure. Becoming the Red Hood, ComicBook/RedHood, Jason sets about on his revenge, manipulating Batman, Gotham's criminal enterprises and even the League of Assassins to engineer conflicts to bring him close to the Joker and Batman. Confronting his former mentor, Jason reveals his deep bitterness at the Joker's survival, declaring he believed he would be the last person Batman ever let the Joker hurt. With a manipulative genius to rival even Batman and a hunger to see his own brutal justice enacted, Jason shows he is more than a match for the world's greatest Detective.


* MoralEventHorizon: The Joker crosses his in the film's opening scene, as he savagely beats Jason, then leaves him to die.

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: MoralEventHorizon:
**
The Joker crosses his in the film's opening scene, as he savagely beats Jason, then leaves him to die.


Added DiffLines:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Even though Red Hood is revealed to be [[spoiler:Jason Todd]] and thus someone with a very personal connection to [[spoiler:the entire Bat-Family, he never interacts with either Nightwing or Alfred despite both being in the movie, and the latter in-particular taking news of Jason's resurrection and fall to villainy almost as badly as Bruce does.]]


%%* MagnificentBastard

to:

%%* MagnificentBastard* MagnificentBastard: [[Characters/{{Robin}} Jason Todd]], after his death at the hands of ComicBook/TheJoker and his revival, becomes a much darker figure. Becoming the Red Hood, Jason sets about on his revenge, manipulating Batman, Gotham's criminal enterprises and even the League of Assassins to engineer conflicts to bring him close to the Joker and Batman. Confronting his former mentor, Jason reveals his deep bitterness at the Joker's survival, declaring he believed he would be the last person Batman ever let the Joker hurt. With a manipulative genius to rival even Batman and a hunger to see his own brutal justice enacted, Jason shows he is more than a match for the world's greatest Detective.


* CompleteMonster: ComicBook/TheJoker once again defines himself as a {{sadist}}ic lunatic. Joker opens up the film by brutally beating the [[WouldHurtAChild young Jason Todd]], the second ComicBook/{{Robin}}, to a bloody pulp with a {{crowbar|Combatant}}, before leaving him to die in an explosion he sets off. After Joker is released by a reluctant Black Mask from Arkham Asylum to kill Red Hood, Joker demonstrates his random violence by [[SlashedThroat slitting the throat]] of one of his guards and shooting the other four dead, and soon after backstabs Black Mask by gagging him and the members of both his and Red Hood's gang, intending to [[ManOnFire burn them all alive]] for the purpose of getting Red Hood's attention. Once it's revealed Red Hood is in fact [[spoiler:a resurrected Jason Todd]] and Batman turns the tides against Red Hood in the final confrontation, Joker tries to pin Batman down for the purpose of dying with both his arch-rival and Red Hood in an exploding building, absolutely ecstatic that he gets to die getting everything he wants. [[EvenEvilHasStandards Even the hardened kingpin Black Mask]] is wary of the Joker, and Batman himself reveals he contemplates killing the Joker every day of his life for the clown's atrocities, [[ThouShaltNotKill only relenting]] to prevent himself from [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim becoming just like those he opposes]]. As true to his darker interpretations, the Joker was a [[AxCrazy psychopath]] motivated by [[ForTheEvulz random whims]] at best, and a desire to hurt Batman at worst.

to:

* CompleteMonster: ComicBook/TheJoker once again defines himself as a {{sadist}}ic lunatic. Joker opens up the film by brutally beating the [[WouldHurtAChild young Jason Todd]], Todd, the second ComicBook/{{Robin}}, to a bloody pulp with a {{crowbar|Combatant}}, before leaving him to die in an explosion he sets off. After Joker is released by a reluctant Black Mask from Arkham Asylum to kill Red Hood, Joker demonstrates his random violence by [[SlashedThroat slitting the throat]] of one of his guards and shooting the other four dead, and soon after backstabs Black Mask by gagging him and the members of both his and Red Hood's gang, intending to [[ManOnFire burn them all alive]] for the purpose of getting Red Hood's attention. Once it's revealed Red Hood is in fact [[spoiler:a resurrected Jason Todd]] and Batman turns the tides against Red Hood in the final confrontation, Joker tries to pin Batman down for the purpose of dying with both his arch-rival and Red Hood in an exploding building, absolutely ecstatic that he gets to die getting everything he wants. [[EvenEvilHasStandards Even the hardened kingpin Black Mask]] is wary of the Joker, and Batman himself reveals he contemplates killing the Joker every day of his life for the clown's atrocities, [[ThouShaltNotKill only relenting]] to prevent himself from [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim becoming just like those he opposes]]. As true to his darker interpretations, the Joker was a [[AxCrazy psychopath]] motivated by [[ForTheEvulz random whims]] at best, and a desire to hurt Batman at worst.


** Reactions to Creator/JohnDiMaggio's casting as Joker were... mixed, to say the least. The release of the character models featuring a somewhat burlier Joker eased concerns somewhat. And then the film was released and a lot of those who doubted he could pull off the role did a complete 180.

to:

** Reactions to Creator/JohnDiMaggio's casting as Joker were... mixed, to say the least. The release of the character models featuring a somewhat burlier burlier-than-usual Joker eased concerns somewhat. And then the film was released and a lot of those who doubted he could pull off the role did a complete 180.


* BetterThanSource: An amazing case. Not only do many fans like this version of the story better than in the comics, Judd Winick, who wrote both the original comics story and this movie, [[CreatorPreferredAdaptation considers the movie the better version]]. A WordOfGod example.

Showing 15 edit(s) of 140

Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report