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** ''Supergirl'' Season 2 ([[BrokenBase though it's more debatable among critics and fans whether or not it was an improvement over Season 1]]) are prime examples. Season 3 of ''Supergirl'' also left many unimpressed, [[DownplayedTrope but the fans are far more forgiving about that one]] as the remaining crew [[WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants had to completely retool its second half on the fly]] after Andrew Kreisberg was fired, not wanting to use his story plan and thus have to pay him -- during the first half, many believed it was on track to being the best season of ''Supergirl'' thus far.

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** ''Supergirl'' Season 2 ([[BrokenBase though it's more debatable among critics and fans whether or not it was an improvement over Season 1]]) are prime examples.1]]). Season 3 of ''Supergirl'' also left many unimpressed, [[DownplayedTrope but the fans are far more forgiving about that one]] as the remaining crew [[WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants had to completely retool its second half on the fly]] after Andrew Kreisberg was fired, not wanting to use his story plan and thus have to pay him -- during the first half, many believed it was on track to being the best season of ''Supergirl'' thus far.


** ''The Flash'': parts of Seasons 2 and 3, and most of 4 and 5 (most fans agree that the second halves of are the most problematic.).

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** ''The Flash'': parts of Seasons 2 and 3, and most of 4 and 5 (most fans agree that the second halves of are the most problematic.).problematic).


* SeasonalRot: An ongoing problem seems to be is that the longer the shows are on the air they tend to decline in quality -- ''Arrow'' Seasons 3, 4 and 6 and for ''The Flash'' it was parts of Seasons 2 and 3, and most of 4 and 5 (''especially'' the second halves of the latter two), ''Legends'' Season 4, and ''Supergirl'' Season 2 ([[BrokenBase though it's more debatable among critics and fans whether or not it was an improvement over Season 1]]) are prime examples. Season 3 of ''Supergirl'' also left many unimpressed, [[DownplayedTrope but the fans are far more forgiving about that one]] as the remaining crew [[WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants had to completely retool its second half on the fly]] after Andrew Kreisberg was fired, not wanting to use his story plan and thus have to pay him -- during the first half, many believed it was on track to being the best season of ''Supergirl'' thus far.

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* SeasonalRot: An ongoing problem seems to be is that the longer the shows are on the air they tend to decline in quality -- ''Arrow'' quality:
** ''Arrow'':
Seasons 3, 4 and 6 and for 6.
**
''The Flash'' it was Flash'': parts of Seasons 2 and 3, and most of 4 and 5 (''especially'' (most fans agree that the second halves of are the latter two), most problematic.).
**
''Legends'' Season 4, and 4.
**
''Supergirl'' Season 2 ([[BrokenBase though it's more debatable among critics and fans whether or not it was an improvement over Season 1]]) are prime examples. Season 3 of ''Supergirl'' also left many unimpressed, [[DownplayedTrope but the fans are far more forgiving about that one]] as the remaining crew [[WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants had to completely retool its second half on the fly]] after Andrew Kreisberg was fired, not wanting to use his story plan and thus have to pay him -- during the first half, many believed it was on track to being the best season of ''Supergirl'' thus far.


* RomanticPlotTumor: One recurring problem with the shows is that the romance aspect has a strong tendency to overtake the plot. This is felt in ''Series/{{Arrow}}'' and ''Series/{{Supergirl|2015}}'' specifically. ''Series/TheFlash2014'' show runners saw this problem and downplay this to avoid the same problem(s).

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* RomanticPlotTumor: One recurring problem with the shows is that the romance aspect has a strong tendency to overtake the plot. This is felt mainly in ''Series/{{Arrow}}'' and ''Series/{{Supergirl|2015}}'' specifically. ''Series/{{Supergirl|2015}}''. ''Series/TheFlash2014'' show runners saw this problem and downplay this to avoid the same problem(s).problem(s), with most fans agreeing that Season 3 is the only season with this issue.


** While still a divisive series, ''Supergirl'''s reception improved in Season 3 after the romantic relationships were downplayed and the plot about Reign improved the more unclear villainous storylines on past seasons.

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** While still a divisive series, ''Supergirl'''s reception improved in Season 3 after 4 of Supergirl was the romantic relationships were downplayed first season to be praised by fans from start to finish, thanks to the inclusion of Lex Luthor, Ben Lockwood, Nia Nal and Red Daughter. It contrast to the plot about Reign improved previous three seasons, which in the more unclear villainous storylines opinion of many fans, start well, until they are harmed by RomanticPlotTumor on past seasons. the second halves.


*** The identity of the Man in the Iron Mask that Zoom had imprisoned was hidden until the last episode of the season. That being said, it was less grating than the above examples since he wasn't integral to the plot and didn't show up in as many episodes as Zoom did.
*** Ralph's constant cycle of becoming a hero, becoming dissuaded, being pep-talked into heroism again and then promising that he's determined to stop DeVoe before promptly getting scared again so he can repeat the whole scenario in a later episode has proved extremely unpopular.
*** It took the team seventeen episodes (nine after the reveal) to learn of Nora’s relationship with [[spoiler:Eobard]].
*** Orlin Dwyer's role as the villain of the season was dragged for too long, since Team Flash missed good opportunities to arrest him.

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*** The Also in season 2, the identity of the Man in the Iron Mask that Zoom had imprisoned was hidden until the last episode of the season. That being said, it was less grating than the above examples since he wasn't integral to the plot and didn't show up in as many episodes as Zoom did.
*** In season 4, Ralph's constant cycle of becoming a hero, becoming dissuaded, being pep-talked into heroism again and then promising that he's determined to stop DeVoe the Thinker before promptly getting scared again so he can repeat the whole scenario in a later episode has proved extremely unpopular.
*** It There are two reasons why Season 5 has become infamous for this: First, it took the team seventeen ''seventeen'' episodes (nine after the reveal) to learn of Nora’s relationship with [[spoiler:Eobard]].
***
[[spoiler:Eobard]]. Also, Orlin Dwyer's role as the villain of the season was dragged for too long, since Team Flash missed good opportunities to arrest him.him. [[spoiler:He is finally killed after 17 episodes, only for his niece to assume his legacy and secret identity for the rest of the season]].



*** It takes ''ten'' episodes for the Legends to figure out that the mysterious evil speedster they're fighting is Eobard Thawne. They could've figured it out much sooner if they had just bothered to ask Barry. It doesn't help that Martin Stein was ''there'' during the fights with Reverse-Flash, as well as Eobard's true face being revealed.
*** Captain Cold was well advertised to join the Legion of Doom, but he didn't show up until episode 15...'''out of a seventeen episode season'''!

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*** It In Season 2, it takes ''ten'' episodes for the Legends to figure out that the mysterious evil speedster they're fighting is Eobard Thawne. They could've figured it out much sooner if they had just bothered to ask Barry. It doesn't help that Martin Stein was ''there'' during the fights with Reverse-Flash, as well as Eobard's true face being revealed.
***
revealed. Also in the same season, Captain Cold was well advertised to join the Legion of Doom, but he didn't show up until episode 15...'''out of a seventeen episode season'''!



*** Kara and her team learning Sam is Reign long after it was already revealed to the audience.

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*** In Season 3, Kara and her team learning Sam is Reign after ''sixteen'' episodes, long after it was already revealed to the audience.


** For the 2019 CrisisCrossover, 'Crisis on Infinite Earth', people who nevered or stopped watching the Franchise would come to see the return of the actors and actresses who played past DC characters from other medias like Series/{{Smallville}} and WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries

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** For the 2019 CrisisCrossover, 'Crisis on Infinite Earth', people who nevered never watched or stopped watching the Franchise would come to see the return of the actors and actresses who played past DC characters from other medias like Series/{{Smallville}} and WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries.


* ArchivePanic: If you want to avoid ContinuityLockout, especially with the crossovers [[SerialEscalation that get bigger and bigger each year]], you'll need to watch all four main shows, which is a total of over 250 episodes, all of which are about 40 minutes long. And that's not even counting the animated spin-offs and tie-in comics, ''or'' the shows that were not part of the Arrowverse before CanonWelding happened. Even worse, if you're planning to binge watch, you'll need to find out which order certain episodes across shows aired in so you don't end up watching the crossovers OutOfOrder. [[JustHereForGodzilla It's especially infuriating if there's only one or a few characters you really care about]]. And that's if you only decide to stick with the main shows - if you include stuff retroactively added in, you've also got ''Series/BirdsOfPrey'' (13 episodes), ''Series/{{Constantine}}'' (also 13 episodes), ''Series/TheFlash1990'' (22 episodes) and ''Series/{{Smallville}}'' (''217 episodes'' and the comic season 11).

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* ArchivePanic: If you want to avoid ContinuityLockout, especially with the crossovers [[SerialEscalation that get bigger and bigger each year]], you'll need to watch all four five main shows, which is a total of over 250 episodes, all of which are about 40 minutes long. And that's not even counting the animated spin-offs and tie-in comics, ''or'' the shows that were not part of the Arrowverse before CanonWelding happened. Even worse, if you're planning to binge watch, you'll need to find out which order certain episodes across shows aired in so you don't end up watching the crossovers OutOfOrder. [[JustHereForGodzilla It's especially infuriating if there's only one or a few characters you really care about]]. And that's if you only decide to stick with the main shows - if you include stuff retroactively added in, you've also got ''Series/BirdsOfPrey'' (13 episodes), ''Series/{{Constantine}}'' (also 13 episodes), ''Series/TheFlash1990'' (22 episodes) and ''Series/{{Smallville}}'' (''217 episodes'' and the comic season 11).


* ArchivePanic: If you want to avoid ContinuityLockout, especially with the crossovers [[SerialEscalation that get bigger and bigger each year]], you'll need to watch all four main shows, which is a total of over 250 episodes, all of which are about 40 minutes long. And that's not even counting the animated spin-offs and tie-in comics, ''or'' the shows that were not part of the Arrowverse before CanonWelding happened. Even worse, if you're planning to binge watch, you'll need to find out which order certain episodes across shows aired in so you don't end up watching the crossovers OutOfOrder. [[JustHereForGodzilla It's especially infuriating if there's only one or a few characters you really care about]]. And that's if you only decide to stick with the main shows - if you include stuff retroactively added in, you've also got ''Series/BirdsOfPrey'' (13 episodes), ''Series/{{Constantine}}'' (also 13 episodes), ''Series/TheFlash1990'' (22 episodes) ''Series/{{Smallville}}'' (''217 episodes'' and the comic season 11).

to:

* ArchivePanic: If you want to avoid ContinuityLockout, especially with the crossovers [[SerialEscalation that get bigger and bigger each year]], you'll need to watch all four main shows, which is a total of over 250 episodes, all of which are about 40 minutes long. And that's not even counting the animated spin-offs and tie-in comics, ''or'' the shows that were not part of the Arrowverse before CanonWelding happened. Even worse, if you're planning to binge watch, you'll need to find out which order certain episodes across shows aired in so you don't end up watching the crossovers OutOfOrder. [[JustHereForGodzilla It's especially infuriating if there's only one or a few characters you really care about]]. And that's if you only decide to stick with the main shows - if you include stuff retroactively added in, you've also got ''Series/BirdsOfPrey'' (13 episodes), ''Series/{{Constantine}}'' (also 13 episodes), ''Series/TheFlash1990'' (22 episodes) and ''Series/{{Smallville}}'' (''217 episodes'' and the comic season 11).


** Vandal Savage is widely considered one of, if not the worst villains in the Arrowverse. This started when the [[Recap/TheFlash2014S2E8LegendsOfToday crossover]] [[Recap/ArrowS4E8LegendsOfYesterday episodes]] [[CompositeCharacter combined him]] with the jealous priest Hath-Set from Hawkman and Hawkgirl's origin stories. This results in a RomanticPlotTumor that takes away much of Savage's trademark WickedCultured nature, as the show instead focuses on his VillainousCrush on Hawkgirl. Plus he's not nearly as old (and thus less experienced) as the comic version who was [[TimeAbyss a caveman]]. While Series/LegendsOfTomorrow tried to reemphasize his [[CompleteMonster malevolence and cruelty]], Casper Crump ultimately fails at bringing the necessary menace to the role despite his acting chops (Savage's AdaptationalWimp status certainly didn't help). Savage is looked back upon by both fan and [[CreatorsPest the writers]] as one of the biggest problem with the first season of the show.

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** Vandal Savage is widely considered one of, if not the worst villains in the Arrowverse. This started when the [[Recap/TheFlash2014S2E8LegendsOfToday crossover]] [[Recap/ArrowS4E8LegendsOfYesterday episodes]] [[CompositeCharacter combined him]] with the jealous priest Hath-Set from Hawkman and Hawkgirl's origin stories. This results in a RomanticPlotTumor that takes away much of Savage's trademark WickedCultured nature, as the show instead focuses on his VillainousCrush on Hawkgirl. Plus he's not nearly as old (and thus less experienced) as the comic version who was [[TimeAbyss a caveman]]. While Series/LegendsOfTomorrow tried to reemphasize his [[CompleteMonster malevolence and cruelty]], cruelty, Casper Crump ultimately fails at bringing the necessary menace to the role despite his acting chops (Savage's AdaptationalWimp status certainly didn't help). Savage is looked back upon by both fan and [[CreatorsPest the writers]] as one of the biggest problem with the first season of the show.


* JustHereForGodzilla: To be expected from a franchise with LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, a lot of fans only watch the shows for a few particular characters. Even when they consider the show's writing to be bad or they dislike [[BaseBreakingCharacter the protagonist]], they will still watch just to see the [[OutOfFocus (sometimes small) ]] amounts of screentime [[EnsembleDarkhorse their favorite supporting/recurring characters]] get. Then there are those who are only interested in one show but watch all of them to avoid ContinuityLockout, especially with all of the crossovers [[SerialEscalation that seem to be getting bigger each year]].

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* JustHereForGodzilla: JustHereForGodzilla:
**
To be expected from a franchise with LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, a lot of fans only watch the shows for a few particular characters. Even when they consider the show's writing to be bad or they dislike [[BaseBreakingCharacter the protagonist]], they will still watch just to see the [[OutOfFocus (sometimes small) ]] amounts of screentime [[EnsembleDarkhorse their favorite supporting/recurring characters]] get. Then there are those who are only interested in one show but watch all of them to avoid ContinuityLockout, especially with all of the crossovers [[SerialEscalation that seem to be getting bigger each year]].year]].
** For the 2019 CrisisCrossover, 'Crisis on Infinite Earth', people who nevered or stopped watching the Franchise would come to see the return of the actors and actresses who played past DC characters from other medias like Series/{{Smallville}} and WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries


** Felicity Smoak became one for the ''entire'' Arrowverse fandom post-''Crisis on Earth-X'', and this is ''not'' hyperbole. Though fans ''did'' seem to despise her a '''bit''' less during Season 7 of ''Arrow''.



** Vandal Savage is widely consider one of, if not the worst villains in the Arrowverse. This started when the [[Recap/TheFlash2014S2E8LegendsOfToday crossover]] [[Recap/ArrowS4E8LegendsOfYesterday episodes]] [[CompositeCharacter combined him]] with the jealous priest Hath-Set from Hawkman and Hawkgirl's origin stories. This results in a RomanticPlotTumor that takes away much of Savage's trademark WickedCultured nature, as the show instead focuses on his VillainousCrush on Hawkgirl. Plus he's not nearly as old (and thus less experienced) as the comic version who was [[TimeAbyss a caveman]]. While Series/LegendsOfTomorrow tried to reemphasize his [[CompleteMonster malevolence and cruelty]], Casper Crump ultimately fails at bringing the necessary menace to the role despite his acting chops (Savage's AdaptationalWimp status certainly didn't help). Savage is looked back upon by both fan and [[CreatorsPest the writers]] as one of the biggest problem with the first season of the show.

to:

** Vandal Savage is widely consider considered one of, if not the worst villains in the Arrowverse. This started when the [[Recap/TheFlash2014S2E8LegendsOfToday crossover]] [[Recap/ArrowS4E8LegendsOfYesterday episodes]] [[CompositeCharacter combined him]] with the jealous priest Hath-Set from Hawkman and Hawkgirl's origin stories. This results in a RomanticPlotTumor that takes away much of Savage's trademark WickedCultured nature, as the show instead focuses on his VillainousCrush on Hawkgirl. Plus he's not nearly as old (and thus less experienced) as the comic version who was [[TimeAbyss a caveman]]. While Series/LegendsOfTomorrow tried to reemphasize his [[CompleteMonster malevolence and cruelty]], Casper Crump ultimately fails at bringing the necessary menace to the role despite his acting chops (Savage's AdaptationalWimp status certainly didn't help). Savage is looked back upon by both fan and [[CreatorsPest the writers]] as one of the biggest problem with the first season of the show.


Added DiffLines:

%%** Felicity Smoak became one post-''Crisis on Earth-X''. Though fans ''did'' seem to despise her a '''bit''' less during Season 7 of ''Arrow''.

Added DiffLines:

* WTHCostumingDepartment: The shows tend to have problems when attempting to have the actors interpret older versions of their characters, since the make-up often fails to conceal the obvious youth of the actors.


** Among the ''show's own'' fandom, this is largely how Marc Guggenheim's tenure is viewed. After taking over ''Arrow'' when Andrew Kreisberg jumped to ''The Flash'', the show was hit by such an infamous degree of SeasonalRot, particularly as the show became overly focused on the RomanticPlotTumor of Oliver/Felicity, a haphazard attempt at giving Merlyn a redemption arc that just made him come off as ''more'' unsympathetic, and a story that just didn't make sense. To some, it began to resemble bad fan fiction. [[InsultToRocks Others called that an insult to bad fan fiction]].

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** Among the ''show's own'' fandom, this is largely how Marc Guggenheim's tenure is viewed. After taking over ''Arrow'' when Andrew Kreisberg jumped to ''The Flash'', the show was hit by such an infamous degree of SeasonalRot, particularly as the show became overly focused on the RomanticPlotTumor of Oliver/Felicity, a haphazard attempt at giving Merlyn a redemption arc that just made him come off as ''more'' unsympathetic, and a story that just didn't make sense. To some, it began to resemble bad fan fiction. [[InsultToRocks Others called that an insult to bad fan fiction]].



*** The second half of Season 6 of ''Arrow'' have been regarded as even worse, if that's possible, thanks to a much maligned arc where Team Arrow and the New Recruits have a parting of the ways and spend most of their time fighting each other than the actual BigBad that completely consumed the season; it got to the point where after the ratings started to drip to less than a million that Guggenheim and Mericle were finally given the boot -- Beth Schwartz will take over as show runner for Season 7. Mericle is leaving completely, while Guggenheim has been KickedUpstairs to the role of "executive consultant".

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*** The second half of Season 6 of ''Arrow'' have been regarded as even worse, if that's possible, thanks to a much maligned arc where Team Arrow and the New Recruits have a parting of the ways and spend most of their time fighting each other than the actual BigBad that completely consumed the season; it got to the point where after the ratings started to drip to less than a million that Guggenheim and Mericle were finally given the boot -- Beth Schwartz will take over as show runner for Season 7. Mericle is leaving completely, while Guggenheim has been KickedUpstairs to the role of "executive consultant".



* MemeticLoser: Marc Guggenheim's career as a show-runner and writer in general is widely seen as a joke by many, especially since it's obvious that the only reason he's still on the job despite his disastrous reputation is [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections he's good friends]] [[ProtectionFromEditors with the main creator]].
** A character example would be Barry Allen. His powerset makes him one of the most powerful heroes on Earth and when he gets down to business, he can take down heavy hitters like Zoom and Savitar. However, what most people remember him for are his humiliating defeats against opponents who aren't anywhere near as fast as him and seemingly being unable to dodge their attacks when he should easily be able to do so, while being totally reliant upon his STAR Labs Crew to hold his hand and talk him through all his battles. Even in VS threads across the internet where CW Flash is involved, it's not uncommon to see a majority of people vote against Barry in favor of his opponents(some of whom Flash should be able to defeat theoretically) while making jokes about how CW's Flash is the "fastest jobber alive."

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* MemeticLoser: Marc Guggenheim's career as a show-runner and writer in general is widely seen as a joke by many, especially since it's obvious that the only reason he's still on the job despite his disastrous reputation is [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections he's good friends]] [[ProtectionFromEditors with the main creator]].
MemeticLoser:
** A character example would be Barry Allen. His powerset makes him one of the most powerful heroes on Earth and when he gets down to business, he can take down heavy hitters like Zoom and Savitar. However, what most people remember him for are his humiliating defeats against opponents who aren't anywhere near as fast as him and seemingly being unable to dodge their attacks when he should easily be able to do so, while being totally reliant upon his STAR Labs Crew to hold his hand and talk him through all his battles. Even in VS threads across the internet where CW Flash is involved, it's not uncommon to see a majority of people vote against Barry in favor of his opponents(some of whom Flash should be able to defeat theoretically) while making jokes about how CW's Flash is the "fastest jobber alive."



* {{Narm}}: While, of course every series has its own unique examples, one thing consistent across all of them is the utter failure of trying to portray characters in the future as age-appropriate, when they are still played by their painfully obvious young actors.
* WMG/PoisonOakEpilepticTrees: Due to him being seen as the weakest and most hated of the three show creators but still [[ProtectionFromEditors the most favored]], many believe that Marc Guggenheim deliberately takes characters from ''Series/TheFlash2014'', the [[MorePopularSpinOff most popular show]] in the ''Arrowverse'', who are integral to its mythos just to cripple its momentum in favor of his shows. Specifically, the characters Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Reverse-Flash, Captain Boomerang, Gorilla Grodd, and most importantly Wally West. It does not help that [[spoiler:Cold, Thawne, and Boomerang were all apparently KilledOffForReal]] once they made the [[{{Transplant}} jump]]. The fact that Guggenheim is infamous for openly bastardizing canon also does not help. Thankfully, Guggenheim is finally removed as show runner after ''Legends'' Season 3, and even better when [[spoiler:both Wally and Grodd survived that season]].
* ProtectionFromEditors: Despite being clearly [[TheLoad the weakest]] of the main three show creators and having the weakest bodies of work, Marc Guggenheim was kept as a showrunner for a long time until Season 6 of ''Arrow'', and was demoted to a consultant for ''Arrow'' and ''Legends of Tomorrow''.

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%%Needs context for why it's funny: * {{Narm}}: While, of course every series has its own unique examples, one thing consistent across all of them is the utter failure of trying to portray characters in the future as age-appropriate, when they are still played by their painfully obvious young actors.
* WMG/PoisonOakEpilepticTrees: Due to him being seen as the weakest and most hated of the three show creators but still [[ProtectionFromEditors the most favored]], many believe that Marc Guggenheim deliberately takes characters from ''Series/TheFlash2014'', the [[MorePopularSpinOff most popular show]] in the ''Arrowverse'', who are integral to its mythos just to cripple its momentum in favor of his shows. Specifically, the characters Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Reverse-Flash, Captain Boomerang, Gorilla Grodd, and most importantly Wally West. It does not help that [[spoiler:Cold, Thawne, and Boomerang were all apparently KilledOffForReal]] once they made the [[{{Transplant}} jump]]. The fact that Guggenheim is infamous for openly bastardizing canon also does not help. Thankfully, Guggenheim is finally removed as show runner after ''Legends'' Season 3, and even better when [[spoiler:both Wally and Grodd survived that season]].
* ProtectionFromEditors: Despite being clearly [[TheLoad the weakest]] of the main three show creators and having the weakest bodies of work, Marc Guggenheim was kept as a showrunner for a long time until Season 6 of ''Arrow'', and was demoted to a consultant for ''Arrow'' and ''Legends of Tomorrow''.
actors.



*** During the height of Andrew Kriesberg's scandal, a former employee of Guggenheim, Grace [=DeVoe=] claims that he hates women, is sexist, loves the idea of white male victimhood, and turned a blind eye to Andrew Kreisberg's sexual misconduct, thus further tarnishing his already shitty reputation.

to:

*** During the height of Andrew Kriesberg's scandal, a former employee of Guggenheim, Grace [=DeVoe=] claims that he hates women, is sexist, loves the idea of white male victimhood, and turned a blind eye to Andrew Kreisberg's sexual misconduct, thus further tarnishing his already shitty reputation.



** Felicity Smoak became one for the ''entire'' Arrowverse fandom post-''Crisis on Earth-X'', and this is ''not'' hyperbole. Though fans ''did'' seem to despise her a '''bit''' less during Season 7 of ''Arrow'' after Mark Guggenheim was KickedUpstairs.

to:

** Felicity Smoak became one for the ''entire'' Arrowverse fandom post-''Crisis on Earth-X'', and this is ''not'' hyperbole. Though fans ''did'' seem to despise her a '''bit''' less during Season 7 of ''Arrow'' after Mark Guggenheim was KickedUpstairs.''Arrow''.



* SnarkBait: Thanks to the above, the shows have devolved into this by 2018 in terms of their online reputation. ''Legends'' seems to embrace it by just being so silly that it ends up in on the joke (to the point [[ItMakesSenseInContext the final battle of Season 3 is between the Big Bad and a stuffed teddy bear the fandom had turned into a meme]]), but the more the other shows tried to be serious, the more they've been mocked for using what are typically seen as stock formulaic plots and clichéd writing. In particular, when Stephen Amell optimistically claimed that he believed that ''Arrow'' would have a lasting impact on the character, to the point the DCEU (or another live action movie) would likely emulate it in some fashion when it introduces its own Green Arrow, the internet tore him to shreds over it.

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* SnarkBait: Thanks to the above, the shows have devolved into this by 2018 in terms of their online reputation. ''Legends'' seems to embrace it by just being so silly that it ends up in on the joke (to the point [[ItMakesSenseInContext the final battle of Season 3 is between the Big Bad and a stuffed teddy bear the fandom had turned into a meme]]), but the more the other shows tried to be serious, the more they've been mocked for using what are typically seen as stock formulaic plots and clichéd writing. In particular, when Stephen Amell optimistically claimed that he believed that ''Arrow'' would have a lasting impact on the character, to the point the DCEU (or another live action movie) would likely emulate it in some fashion when it introduces its own Green Arrow, the internet tore him to shreds over it.



** Also somewhat inverted, but thanks to the shittier later seasons, some have turned to look at the earlier seasons and become more critical, in large part because of the frequent FranchiseOriginalSin. Problems that would get out of hand by seasons 3 or 4 were present in seasons 1 and 2, to various extents (Felicity, Oliver, and Barry's characters, for instance, would have massive flaws that were prominent from the beginning, but got out of hand later when they failed to recieve the appropriate CharacterDevelopment needed to deal with, or would get flanderised over time)


** On a meta-level, Marc Guggenheim. ''Arrow'' went downhill ever since he (and Wendy Mericle, who herself is also this trope) took over as showrunner that tearing him new assholes for his lackluster decisions and writing are what majority of fans enjoy doing despite their differing opinions over the show's characters. ''[[Series/Elseworlds2018 Elseworlds]]'' even [[TakeThat put his name on a prisoner's cell]] in Arkham Asylum.
** And thanks to the above, [[TheScrappy Felicity Smoak]]. Post-''Crisis on Earth-X'', it's been open season on her, as these days only the most ardent of Felicity (and by extension, Olicity) fans are willing to defend her. Everyone else, including her regular fans, now hate her to the point that [[BaseBreakingCharacter the otherwise-controversial character Iris West]] on ''The Flash'' became an EnsembleDarkhorse for the ''Arrow'' fandom just for [[TakeThatScrappy calling her out on her selfish behavior]].

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