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[[WMG: Hecate is a time-displaced Melinoë, trying to help her past self succeed whereas she failed.]]
In mythology, Melinoë and Hecate are actually known to share some associations in terms of namesakes. In particular, Melinoë is thought to be one of the epithets of Hecate, in Orphic Hymns they're both the only ones to share a description of being "krokopeplos", or "clad in saffron". They also share some associations with the passage of souls.
In character detail, it bears noting how in Hecate's design that her only exposed right eye is shown glowing green and her left arm is oddly covered by a gauntlet while her right arm is exposed and human, which is similar to Melinoë's own characteristics of a green right eye and left, otherworldly arm. Perhaps the reason her left eye and arm are hidden is mainly to hide these associations from both the player and Melinoë herself. Hecate also expresses immense guilt at not being able to stop Chronos the first time she dealt with him, expressively mentions how she wants to prepare Melinoë to "succeed where [she] failed", and her reaction to Hades thanks has her acting incredibly emotional and asking Melinoë to hide said reaction until they can save Hades.
As for how or why she's time displaced, Chronos is the BigBad here. It may be the result of a whim of a bad end future Chronos to toss Melinoë through time so she'd never get to see her own family ever again. As a result, the Bad End Future Melinoë sought to prepare for the day Chronos would strike again, teaching her past self how to do better in hopes she would succeed where the now renamed Hecate had failed.
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** Actually, a conversation with Icarus indicates that she got it when she was trying to use the cauldron to help him and the spell went awry.
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** Actually, a conversation with Icarus indicates that she got it when she was trying to use the cauldron to help him and the spell went awry.
awry; a related conversation with Hecate says it's a result of Melinoe overextending herself.
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[[WMG:Zagreus got dismembered by Chronos]]
In mythology, Zagreus is sometimes connected to Orphic Dionysus: Zagreus was born, dismembered and eaten by Titans, then reborn as Dionysus. Here in ''Hades 2'', Zag's seen frozen with the others in the takeover flashback, but Chronos has a couple lines implying something's happened to Zag in the meantime, and has already proven with Hades' imprisonment in Tartarus that he's happy to recycle his own punishments as a form of vengeance. Potentially a part of the story progression will be collecting Zagreus' bits to reconstitute him.
In mythology, Zagreus is sometimes connected to Orphic Dionysus: Zagreus was born, dismembered and eaten by Titans, then reborn as Dionysus. Here in ''Hades 2'', Zag's seen frozen with the others in the takeover flashback, but Chronos has a couple lines implying something's happened to Zag in the meantime, and has already proven with Hades' imprisonment in Tartarus that he's happy to recycle his own punishments as a form of vengeance. Potentially a part of the story progression will be collecting Zagreus' bits to reconstitute him.
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** '''Jossed'''. There's a [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyc5ec8wu40 scene]] where the player takes control of Hades just as Chronos takes over, and Thanatos is among the people Chronos has frozen. (He's behind and slightly to the left of Achilles.)
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** Actually, a conversation with Icarus indicates that she got it when she was trying to use the cauldron to help him and the spell went awry.
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** Chaos' presence is '''Confirmed''' in Early Access.
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** Chaos' presence is '''Confirmed''' in Early Access.Access, but numerous deities have returned from the first game, so that part is '''jossed'''.
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* Partially "Confirmed" as Hecate is identified as a third generation Titan and Selene, Titaness and Goddess of the Moon, is an staunch ally of Melinoe.
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* Partially "Confirmed" '''confirmed''' as Hecate is identified as a third generation Titan and Selene, Titaness and Goddess of the Moon, is an staunch ally of Melinoe.
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* Partially "Confirmed" as Hecate is identified as a third generation Titan and Selene, Titaness and Goddess of the Moon, is an staunch ally of Melinoe.
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* '''Witch's Staff'':
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* '''Witch's Staff'':Staff''':
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** '''[[Myth/PaulBunyan Aspect of Paul Bunyan]]''': An unconventional choice given his relative recency, but one possible Hidden Aspect for the Moonstone Axe is for it to change into a lumberjack's axe similar to what Paul Bunyan is fabled to have wielded. The Ω Special of this Hidden Aspect would have Melinoë bringing down the axe in a clear vertical slice and carving a path in the middle of a horde of enemies, thus separating them and forcing them to go around it, as a nod to how one fable regarding Paul Bunyan is how he split the Grand Canyon with his axe.
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** '''[[Myth/JapaneseMythology Aspect of Amaterasu]]''': The Umbral Flames would change form entirely as part of this aspect, instead now being two fireballs representing the Sun, recalling Amaterasu's status as the Japanese Sun Goddess. The Ω Special would have Melinoë throwing multiple fireballs at once in different directions, and the Hidden Aspect itself would function like the Fire Flower from ''Franchise/SuperMarioBros'' - another one of Japan's big cultural landmarks.
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** '''[[Theatre/{{Hamlet}} Aspect of Yorick]]''': The Argent Skull would become a much more normal-looking skull, referencing the CourtJester of ''Hamlet'' whose skull is famously talked to by Hamlet himself. For its Ω Special, it would deal a random status effect on enemies (Weak, Chill, Hitch, etc.), leaning into Yorick being the Jester of King Hamlet's court. Bonus points if the activation phrase is delivered by Eris, who also seems to have a clown-like motif in her physical design.
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[[WMG:Hidden Aspects for the Nocturnal Arms]]
Just as the first game had Hidden Aspects that called back to other mythologies or folklore, so too will ''Hades II'' once it leaves Early Access. Some possibilities could be:
* '''Witch's Staff'':
** '''[[Myth/NorseMythology Aspect of Odin]]''': Considering how the first game didn't have an aspect based off of Norse Mythology, it seems fairly likely one of the Noturnal Arms will have them here. One option would be to have the Witch's Staff change to a form inspired by Gungnir, the spear wielded by Odin, and an UrExample for the WizardClassic trope. The Ω Special could see Gungnir being used as a projectile that strikes the nearest foe no matter how out of the way they, but for a high price in Mana.
* '''Sister Blades''':
** '''[[Myth/EgyptianMythology Aspect of Osiris]]''': To fit Melinoë being the daughter of Hades, the Sister Blades will change into a crook and flail most commonly associated with the Egyptian God of the Dead, Osiris. Its Ω Special would have them draw in any enemy within the certain radius, before unleashing a powerful attack killing all of them, calling back to how the crook and flail were tools used by Shepherds.
* '''Moonstone Axe''':
* '''Umbral Flames''':
* '''Argent Skull''':
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hades isn't mentioned in that wmg; i don't think we can definitively say nemesis or moros won't be a mole (imo it seems unlikely, but there just isn't enough story in ea)
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** Jossed. Hades is reachable in Early Access and isn't asleep. He's in the House of Hades, in chains.
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*** '''Jossed''' as far as being the ''first'' boss is concerned... But there is a god who does this. It's Eris.
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*** '''Jossed''' as far as being the ''first'' boss is concerned... But there is a god who does this. It's Eris.this: Eris, wielding Exagryph in her Aspect.
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* Seemingly '''Confirmed''' in the tech preview; whatever happened to Hades, Zag and Persephone also disappeared alongside him.
** Confirmed in Early Access.
** Confirmed in Early Access.
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* Seemingly '''Confirmed''' '''confirmed''' in the tech preview; whatever happened to Hades, Zag and Persephone also disappeared alongside him.
**Confirmed Fully '''confirmed''' in Early Access.
**
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* Confirmed as of Early Access. To train her to avenge her family who were all captured.
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* Confirmed '''Confirmed''' as of Early Access. To train her to avenge her family who were all captured.
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** '''Confirmed''' in Early Access; she grants boons on the surface. The mechanic is '''jossed''' though; her status curse lets you deal damage to all enemies at once.
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** '''Confirmed''' in Early Access; she grants boons on after you make it to the surface. The mechanic is '''jossed''' though; her status curse lets you deal damage to all marked enemies at once.
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* Jossed, it's a binding spell to hold enemies in place for a short time.
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* Jossed, '''Jossed''', it's a binding spell to hold enemies in place for a short time.
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* '''Confirmed'''; Dora calls her Mel.
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* '''Confirmed'''; Dora calls her Mel.
Mel and Icarus calls her Meli.
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* Nothing about the arm yet in early access, but the surface still hurts Melinoe just as it does Zag, and it's an incantation of Melinoe's own that lets her stay on the surface for a while.
** Jossed. It's an incantation that lets you go to the surface. You have to unlock and buy it in-game.
** Jossed. It's an incantation that lets you go to the surface. You have to unlock and buy it in-game.
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* Nothing has been explained about the arm yet in as of early access, but it keeping Melinoe from being hurt by the surface is '''jossed'''. It still hurts Melinoe just as it does Zag, and it's an incantation of Melinoe's own that lets her stay on the surface for a while.
** Jossed. It's an incantation that letswhile, which you go to the surface. You have to unlock and buy it in-game.
** Jossed. It's an incantation that lets
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* Semi-jossed; Asphodel is still same the LethalLavaLand it was in ''Hades'', but that's becasuse it 'is' the same Asphodel as in the first game.
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* Semi-jossed; '''Semi-jossed'''; Asphodel is still same the LethalLavaLand it was in ''Hades'', but that's becasuse it 'is' the same Asphodel as in the first game.
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* Jossed. It's actually in defiance of the Fates. Moros tells her an incantation that lets her do it.
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* Jossed. It's '''Jossed'''. She was born in the Underworld and taken to the Crossroads just afterwards. Her making it to the surface is actually in defiance of the Fates. Fates -- Moros tells her an incantation that lets her do it.
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* Jossed. But it might be Eris.
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* Jossed. But Alternatively, it might be Eris.
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* Jossed. She was born after the true ending of the first game.
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* Jossed. '''Jossed'''. She was born after in the true ending of the first game.
Underworld.
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* There's also an icon in the inventory that shows the phase of the moon, but it doesn't seem to have any effect.
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** Jossed as to Medea and Circe. But both are random encounters.
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** Jossed '''Jossed''' as to Medea and Circe. But Circe; both are random encounters.
encounters in Ephyra and Thessaly respectively.
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* Somewhat corroborating is the fact that Chronos currently seeks the place where the Fates reside.
[[WMG: Hyperion is trying to get himself restored to time by manipulating Chronos and will be the true final boss]].
[[WMG: Hyperion is trying to get himself restored to time by manipulating Chronos and will be the true final boss]].
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* Somewhat corroborating is the fact that Chronos currently seeks the place where the Fates reside.
reside, and got that information from Chaos.
[[WMG: Hyperion is trying to get himself restored to time by manipulating Chronos and will be the true finalboss]].boss.]]
[[WMG: Hyperion is trying to get himself restored to time by manipulating Chronos and will be the true final
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* Alternatively, they might have expected to deal with another one of Hades' children so they changed their form to something that might be more comfortable for Mel
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* Alternatively, they might have expected to deal with another one of Hades' children so they changed their form to something that might be more comfortable for Mel
Mel.
* Alternatively again, they might have changed their appearance after learning more about humanity (in the broad, deity-including sense) from Zagreus in the first game, or so they look more like Nyx.
* Alternatively again, they might have changed their appearance after learning more about humanity (in the broad, deity-including sense) from Zagreus in the first game, or so they look more like Nyx.
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one typo
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* Jossed. It's actually in defiance of the fates. Morow tells her an incantation that lets her do it.
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* Jossed. It's actually in defiance of the fates. Morow Fates. Moros tells her an incantation that lets her do it.
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** In the vision of the past, Chronos does mention that he was brought back thanks to blood sacrifices. He does not specify ''whose'' blood it was.
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* Alternatively, they might have expected to deal with another one of Hades' children so they changed their form to something that might be more comfortable for Mel
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[[WMG:Persephone will be rescued and Mel can then interact with her around the Crossroads' garden]]
Assuming Persephone doesn't immediately go searching for her husband and son, she could serve an in-game function by helping expand the garden where Mel grows reagents. It's also a prime opportunity for the two to make up for lost time, and for Mel to learn about her mother's favorite pastime.
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Jossed. There is a god who does this, but it's Artemis. (And Icarus).
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** Hades is reachable in Early Access and isn't asleep. He's in the House of Hades, in chains.
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** Jossed. Hades is reachable in Early Access and isn't asleep. He's in the House of Hades, in chains.
Jossed. There is a god who does this, but it's Artemis. (And Icarus).
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*** '''Jossed''' as far as being the ''first'' boss is concerned...
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*** '''Jossed''' as far as being the ''first'' boss is concerned... But there is a god who does this. It's Eris.
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** Confirmed in Early Access.
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* Confirmed as of Early Access. To train her to avenge her family who were all captured.
*** She's also a boss.
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** Jossed. It's an incantation that lets you go to the surface. You have to unlock and buy it in-game.
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** And he's definitely Homer.
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* Jossed. It's actually in defiance of the fates. Morow tells her an incantation that lets her do it.
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* Jossed. But it might be Eris.
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* Jossed. She was born after the true ending of the first game.
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* '''Confirmed''' of a sort; one of the hexes from Selene lets you turn into a "living nightmare" with a unique set of moves.
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* '''Confirmed''' of a sort; one of the hexes from Selene lets you turn into a "living nightmare" with a unique set of moves.
moves. She can also recruit wandering spirits by sprinting into them.
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** Jossed as to Medea and Circe. But both are random encounters.
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** Hades is reachable in Early Access and isn't asleep. He's in the House of Hades, in chains.
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[[WMG:Chaos deliberately changed their appearance.]]
Chaos looks far different in the second game. Instead of a body sprouting more bodies from itself, they're a mostly-clean, feminine entity in a suit, looking not unlike Meg. Chaos also doesn't seem to like Melinoe as much as they do Zagreus. Perhaps they expose their "truer" shape to Zag because they like him, while they have a more professional shape for Mel because they're not as amused by her and thus their relationship is colder.
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Partial confirmation on WMG
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* '''Partially confirmed''': Hades can be found as a random encounter in the final area, and will give Melinoë a choice of boons (these Boons don't use the Boiling Blood mechanic however, just provide benefits against Chronos). Persephone hasn't been confirmed as of Early Access.
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[[WMG:Aphrodite's adultery will be treated sympathetically.]]
The only time she mentions Hephaestus in the first game is to sadly admit that he never makes time for her. Something that, for the embodiment of romance and passion, must be very hard to live with. Either she or Hephaestus himself will acknowledge that, while Aphrodite did still cheat on him, it was callous and inconsiderate of him to neglect his wife like that.
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* Charon says (via Melinoe translating) that Hypnos is of greater use asleep, although it might just be a dig at his somnolent brother...
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* Chronos has a spell to send Melinoe to ''Hades''-era Asphodel, so we could end up running into him on one of his escapes.
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** '''Confirmed''' in Early Access.
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** '''Confirmed''' in Early Access.Access; she grants boons on the surface. The mechanic is '''jossed''' though; her status curse lets you deal damage to all enemies at once.
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** '''Confirmed''' in Early Access.
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** '''Confirmed''' Her presence got '''confirmed''' in Early Access.Access, but she "helps" you out by giving you a debuff.
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** Medea '''Confirmed''' in Early Access.
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** Medea '''Confirmed''' '''confirmed''' in Early Access.Access; she's on the surface.
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** '''Confirmed''' in early access.
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** '''Confirmed''' in early access.access; he's on the surface.
** '''Confirmed'''; they're back in the same role as the first game.
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* Nothing about the arm yet in early access, but the surface still hurts Melinoe just as it does Zag, and it's an incantation of Melinoe's own that lets her stay on the surface for a while.
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* Semi-jossed; Asphodel is still same the LethalLavaLand it was in ''Hades'', but that's becasuse it 'is' the same Asphodel as in the first game.
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* Also, Erebus is in the first game too; it's the place you go to do infernal gates or fight Charon.
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* '''Confirmed''' of a sort; one of the hexes from Selene lets you turn into a "living nightmare" with a unique set of moves.
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* Hades' companion room in Tartarus looks like it's Sisyphus' room -- same shape and Bouldy in the back covered in moss -- so Sisyphus has at the very least gone elsewhere in the disarray.
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[[WMG:Kairos will have an important role in the full version of the game.]]
"Time cannot be stopped", but Chronos is not the only Greek deity associated with time. Plus, who would be more appropriate to help deal a decisive blow against him than the one that embodies decisive moments?
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[[WMG:As you complete runs, you'll rescues denizens of the House of Hades]]
All of Hades's family and attendants are trapped in a time bubble by Chronos (Zag, Persephone, Nyx, etc.). So for every time Mel defeats Chronos, his influence wanes and, one-by-one, she'll be able to snag one of his captives and either bring them back with her to the surface or leave them to take station in one of the floors (Nyx could return to Chaos's realm, Thanatos to the surface where several of his siblings are, etc.).
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WMG pages are "spoilers-off"
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* Odysseus and Circe: Circe is, by far, ''the'' quintessential witch in Greek mythology, and is an absolute shoo-in for a story focused around witches, even without being the very daughter of Hecate. Odysseus is unquestionably linked to her, and with his fellow heroes of the Trojan War Achilles and Patroclus appearing in the previous game [[spoiler: as well as him potentially being Skelly]], it's not out of the question that he'd appear here.
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* Odysseus and Circe: Circe is, by far, ''the'' quintessential witch in Greek mythology, and is an absolute shoo-in for a story focused around witches, even without being the very daughter of Hecate. Odysseus is unquestionably linked to her, and with his fellow heroes of the Trojan War Achilles and Patroclus appearing in the previous game [[spoiler: game, as well as him potentially being Skelly]], Skelly, it's not out of the question that he'd appear here.
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[[WMG: [[spoiler:The Chronos fought in Early Access is actually Zagreus, or is Chronos possessing him.]]]]
Mainly for how similar they both sound, [[spoiler:every mention of Zag being in past tense]], and the similar builds, plus the game being in early access means we don't have the full story yet. This would also have ties to Orphism, where [[spoiler:Zagreus-Dionysus was eaten by the Titans and reborn, and he was conflated with Osiris as a result]].
Mainly for how similar they both sound, [[spoiler:every mention of Zag being in past tense]], and the similar builds, plus the game being in early access means we don't have the full story yet. This would also have ties to Orphism, where [[spoiler:Zagreus-Dionysus was eaten by the Titans and reborn, and he was conflated with Osiris as a result]].
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[[WMG: [[spoiler:The The Chronos fought in Early Access is actually Zagreus, or is Chronos possessing him.]]]]
]]
Mainly for how similar they both sound,[[spoiler:every every mention of Zag being in past tense]], tense, and the similar builds, plus the game being in early access means we don't have the full story yet. This would also have ties to Orphism, where [[spoiler:Zagreus-Dionysus Zagreus-Dionysus was eaten by the Titans and reborn, and he was conflated with Osiris as a result]].
result.
Mainly for how similar they both sound,
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* '''Confirmed''', but not of his own will; Chronos corrupts him into a hostile monster. Thankfully he gets better.
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* If Chronos fails enough times his brother will berate him and take over.
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this is unlikely but you never know.
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[[WMG: Hyperion is trying to get himself restored to time by manipulating Chronos and will be the true final boss]].
* If Chronos fails enough times his brother will berate him and take over.
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[[WMG:It's all Nyx's fault]]
By going against the decree of Fates and resurrecting Zagreus she screwed with the destiny and causality, which was keeping an otherwise non-linear Titan of Time bound in his dismembered state. And she knew the repercussions the whole time, that's why she refused to speak about the price of the deed.
* Somewhat corroborating is the fact that Chronos currently seeks the place where the Fates reside.
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Mainly for how similar they both sound, [[spoiler:every mention of Zag being in past tense]], and the similar builds, plus the game being in early access means we don't have the full story yet.
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Mainly for how similar they both sound, [[spoiler:every mention of Zag being in past tense]], and the similar builds, plus the game being in early access means we don't have the full story yet. This would also have ties to Orphism, where [[spoiler:Zagreus-Dionysus was eaten by the Titans and reborn, and he was conflated with Osiris as a result]].
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[[spoiler:[[WMG: The Chronos fought in Early Access is actually Zagreus, or is Chronos possessing him.]]]]
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