History ValuesDissonance / Persona5

* Japanese society puts a lot of emphasis on self-sacrifice for others. Acting out of best interests, even if it's for good intentions or for something that isn't seen as a big deal, is seen as selfish (such as women wanting to continue working after having kids instead of QuittingToGetMarried); complaining about a role you were given is seen as disrupting the environment. For example, Haru feels at first she has no choice but to proceed with her arranged marriage because she accepts that she would be hurting her family and company's image if she didn't, whereas Westerners value independence. The track team chooses to blame Ryuji for breaking up the team since he was the only one who actively rebelled against Kamoshida. [[spoiler:And, this is also a huge point in Akechi's DeathEqualsRedempion scene, when he finally decides to stop following his own agenda and help the Phantom Thieves.]] At the end of the game, if you completed the Strength Confidant, it's explicitly said that there are times when you must sacrifice your desires to do the right thing, [[spoiler:like Joker did when he let himself go to jail to ensure Shido's conviction]].

* Japan puts a lot of emphasis on self-sacrifice for others. Acting out of your best interests, even if it's for good intentions or for something that isn't seen as a big deal, is seen as selfish (such as women wanting to continue working after having kids instead of QuittingToGetMarried). If you don't fulfill your role and complain about it, you are seen as disrupting the environment. For example, for a certain amount of time, Haru feels she has no choice but to proceed with her arranged marriage because she accepts that she would be hurting her family and company's image if she didn't, whereas Westerners value independence. This is also why it's easier for Japanese audiences to see why Ryuji would be blamed for breaking up the track team despite Kamoshida egging him on. [[spoiler:And, this is also a huge point in Akechi's DeathEqualsRedempion scene, when he finally decides to stop following his own agenda and help the Phantom Thieves.]] At the end of the game, if you completed the Strength Confidant, it's explicitly said that there are times when you must sacrifice your desires to do the right thing, [[spoiler:like Joker did when he let himself go to jail to ensure Shido's conviction]].

* A common complaint from Western critics is that, despite the game heavily dealing with the nature of youth being misunderstood by the previous generation, the game has no GayOption (unlike previous Persona games) and not much in the way of positive LGBT representation. This is in part a fundamental misunderstanding of the theme, as while America heavily associates such issues with discrimination (which LGBT topics fall under), Japan is far more routed in social corruption (which the game deals extensively with).

* Meta-example: Atlus' spoiler policy is no big deal in Japan because Japanese fans usually keep spoilers to themselves and get angry when they see anything leaked. This also extends to even exclusive events, as fans have an unspoken rule not to post about anything until all running events are over or have been made public. On the other hand, Western fans found Atlus' spoiler policy condescending and unreasonable especially with their threats of DMCA takedowns, something that is a very touchy issue in the west due to it's rampant abuse.

* Meta-example: Atlus' spoiler policy is no big deal in Japan because Japanese fans usually keep spoilers to themselves and get angry when they see anything leaked. This also extends to even exclusive events, as fans have an unspoken rule not to post about anything until all running events are over or have been made public. On the other hand, Western fans found Atlus' spoiler policy condescending and unreasonable.

* A huge reason why [[AmericansHateTingle Goro Akechi was less warmly received by western audiences]], aside from his opposing the Phantom Thieves, is heavily due to [[spoiler:his status as an illegitimate child. Illegitimate children, adopted children, and orphans face ''far'' more discrimination in Japan compared to many western countries, to the point where it's practically legal to discriminate against them courtesy of the ''koseki'' family law. A family's image and lineage holds a lot of weight, and simply being a bastard [[BastardAngst is considered an irredeemable flaw. This also hits Akechi's mother (who was so ashamed and overwrought by having him that she let herself die) by extension, due to a strong stigma against single mothers.]] While Japan found his anger towards his past to be much more understandable, the West saw it as a lot more extreme]].

* Japan puts a lot of emphasis on self-sacrifice for others. Acting out of your best interests, even if it's for good intentions or for something that isn't seen as a big deal, is seen as selfish (such as women wanting to continue after having kids instead of QuittingToGetMarried). If you don't fulfill your role and complain about it, you are seen as disrupting the environment. For example, for a certain amount of time, Haru feels she has no choice but to proceed with her arranged marriage because she accepts that she would be hurting her family and company's image if she didn't, whereas Westerners value independence. This is also why it's easier for Japanese audiences to see why Ryuji would be blamed for breaking up the track team despite Kamoshida egging him on. [[spoiler:And, this is also a huge point in Akechi's DeathEqualsRedempion scene, when he finally decides to stop following his own agenda and help the Phantom Thieves.]] At the end of the game, if you completed the Strength Confidant, it's explicitly said that there are times when you must sacrifice your desires to do the right thing, [[spoiler:like Joker did when he let himself go to jail to ensure Shido's conviction]].

* A huge reason why [[AmericansHateTingle Goro Akechi was less warmly received by western audiences]], aside from his opposing the Phantom Thieves, is heavily due to [[spoiler:his status as an illegitimate child. Illegitimate children, adopted children, and orphans face ''far'' more discrimination compared to many western countries, to the point where it's practically legal to discriminate against them courtesy of the ''koseki'' family law. A family's image and lineage holds a lot of weight, and simply being a bastard [[BastardAngst is considered an irredeemable flaw. This also hits Akechi's mother (who was so ashamed and overwrought by having him that she let herself die) by extension, due to a strong stigma against single mothers.]] While Japan found his anger towards his past to be much

* Self-sacrifice for others is highly important in Japan, and acting on your own and doing whatever you want, even if it's for good intentions, is seen as selfish. If you don't fulfill your role and complain about it, you are seen as disrupting the environment. For example, for a certain amount of time, Haru feels she has no choice but to proceed with her arranged marriage because she accepts that she would be hurting her family and company's image if she didn't, whereas Westerners value independence. This is also why it's easier for Japanese audiences to see why Ryuji would be blamed for breaking up the track team despite Kamoshida egging him on. [[spoiler:And, this is also a huge point in Akechi's DeathEqualsRedempion scene, when he finally decides to stop following his own agenda and help the Phantom Thieves.]] At the end of the game, if you completed the Strength Confidant, it's explicitly said that there are times when you must sacrifice your desires to do the right thing, [[spoiler:like Joker did when he let himself go to jail to ensure Shido's conviction]].

* Kawakami and Taiki Takase's relationship, her tutoring the young man who had to work three part time jobs after the death of his parents, is treated like a huge controversy (with her being criticized for giving more attention to him than her other students) when in the West, their relationship would be seen as inspirational. Ms. Chouno does praise Kawakami when she thinks she's tutoring Joker after school, however.

* Self-sacrifice for others is highly important in Japan, and acting on your own and doing whatever you want, even if it's for good intentions, is seen as selfish. If you don't fulfill your role and complain about it, you are seen as disrupting the environment. This is why it's easier for Japanese audiences to see why Ryuji would be blamed for breaking up the track team despite Kamoshida egging him on, or for Haru to be blamed for hurting her father and her family's company if she didn't agree to her marriage. At the end of the game, if you completed the Strength Confidant, it's explicitly said that there are times when you must sacrifice your desires to do the right thing, [[spoiler:like Joker did when he let himself go to jail to ensure Shido's conviction]].

* Kawakami and Taiki Takase's relationship, her tutoring the young man who had to work three part time jobs after the death of his parents, is treated like a huge controversy (with her being criticized for giving more attention to him than her other students) when in the West, their relationship would be seen as inspirational.

* Okumura is meant to ultimately be more sympathetic than many of the other targets. This is in large part due to how thoroughly he recants and apologizes at the end of his Palace and how he truly cares for his daughter Haru deep down, [[spoiler:as well as the fact that he's assassinated on live TV after his change of heart]]. However, his original sin is arranging Haru's marriage for political gain. Arranged marriage is still decently common in Japan (especially among the well-to-do). And while the game is unambiguous that the situation is cruel and unfair to Haru, the Western world would consider Okumura's actions horrendous. In Anglophone countries, the practice of arranged marriage for power's sake has become universally reviled, and it makes Haru seem like nothing but a bargaining chip (which Okumura's Palace emphasizes at points). Okumura's initial willingness to force Haru into a marriage with a man who is two drinks and a bad day short of being a ''physically violent rapist'' puts Okumura squarely into the Kamoshida tier of villainy for many.[[note]]The conversation between Okumura's Shadow and the manifestation of how Okumura sees his future son-in-law makes it clear that Okumura knows fully well what he's doing, and doesn't care.[[/note]] Thus, Okumura's apology doesn't do much to mitigate things. It doesn't help that his pre-battle "apology" was a lie to get the Thieves to lower their guard. [[spoiler:Opinion might've softened on him if he had more time to follow up on improving his relationship with Haru and making her life better, but since he isn't given the chance, a Westerner would probably still have trouble with it.]]

* Ann's bikini shot during the BeachEpisode [[{{Squick}} creeped a few Western fans out]], echoing the reaction to Rise's commercial at the start of ''VideoGame/Persona4''. Fanservice involving high schoolers is very common in Japanese entertainment, which the ''Persona'' series has always closely rubbed shoulders with; as such, in Japan, there were almost no eyebrows raised by this at all.
* Illegitimate and adopted children in Japan face far more discrimination compared to many Western countries. A family's image and prestige holds a lot of weight, and simply ''being'' a bastard [[BastardAngst is considered an irredeemable flaw]]. Under Japan's ''koseki'' family registration system, discrimination against illegitimate children in family law situations was completely legal until 2013. ''Koseki'' is gradually becoming less relevant, but it's still a major aspect of Japanese family law.

** There's a somewhat more positive contrast in the same game, but it's one that many Anglophones still miss. [[spoiler:Futaba and her mother Wakaba would be in a similar position legally, but this is meant to make them and their relationship remarkable. A lot of Futaba's initial guilt comes from her belief that she drove her mother to suicide, with the other implication being that Futaba and the world around her thinks "of course a ''dirty bastard'' would do such a thing." As a result, Futaba ends up passed to abusive relatives who see no reason not to treat her like dirt until Sojiro rescues her. Wakaba's genuine love for Futaba, though, is meant to be astonishing - when Wakaba becomes pregnant with Futaba, she just takes it in stride and loves her daughter with all her heart, no strings attached. This is almost ''absurdly'' romantic for Japanese society. Sojiro's account of it is meant to cement in the player's head that Wakaba absolutely did love Futaba and was a good person, all by itself.]] All of this still works to a degree in English, but the sheer impact just isn't the same, since single parents and children outside of marriage aren't uncommon in Anglophone countries.

* Okumura, the fifth target, is meant to ultimately be more sympathetic than many of the other targets. This is in large part due to how thoroughly he recants and apologizes at the end of his Palace and how he truly cares for his daughter Haru deep down, [[spoiler:as well as the fact that he's assassinated on live TV after his change of heart]]. However, his original sin is arranging Haru's marriage for political gain. While arranged marriage is still decently common in Japan (especially among the well-to-do), and while the game is unambiguous that the situation is cruel and unfair to Haru, the Western world would consider Okumura's actions horrendous. In Anglophone countries, the practice of arranged marriage for power's sake has become universally reviled, and it makes Haru seem like nothing but a bargaining chip (which Okumura's Palace emphasizes at points). Okumura's initial willingness to force Haru into a marriage with a man who is two drinks and a bad day short of being a ''physically violent rapist'' puts Okumura squarely into the Kamoshida tier of villainy for many.[[note]]The conversation between Okumura's Shadow and the manifestation of how Okumura sees his future son-in-law makes it clear that Okumura knows fully well what he's doing, and doesn't care.[[/note]] Thus, Okumura's apology doesn't do much to mitigate things. It doesn't help that his pre-battle "apology" was a lie to get the Thieves to lower their guard. [[spoiler:Opinion might've softened on him if he had more time to follow up on improving his relationship with Haru and making her life better, but since he isn't given the chance, a Westerner would probably still have trouble with it.]]
* Sadayo Kawakami's romance is meant to be seen as, while certainly ''taboo'' (which she takes great pains to remind you), to be more of an issue of age than a TeacherStudentRomance on principle. What is supposed to make her different from [[DirtyOldMan Kamoshida]] is that ''the student'' approaches ''the teacher'', and the affection is explicitly confirmed up front as mutual and consensual. This is opposed to Kamoshida, who resorts to emotional blackmail and abuse of his authority. That still doesn't cut it with a lot of fans, who still a relationship between Kawakami and Joker as a huge DoubleStandard relating to the power a teacher has over their students.

* Westerners might not realize Ann dealing with SlutShaming is more than just her being a pretty girl -- it also has to do with the fact that she's quarter-white. Caucasian people are often exoticized in Japanese culture, and one of the most common negative stereotypes Japanese people have of Westerners is that they're very sexually forward. So while Ann being labelled as a slut would be a bad thing in both the West and the East, Western players are likely to miss out on the racial aspect being criticized.

** It's debatable if this is even a case of values dissonance given how western has struggled with corrupt authority for a while now and society is only really starting to come to grips with the depth of said corruption recently.

* Japanese society's reluctance to intervene in cases of abuse comes up from time to time, particularly when one of Chihaya's clients talks about her abusive boyfriend, with neither woman considering reporting the boyfriend for his behavior. That said, people who abuse their [[DomesticAbuser partners]], [[AbusiveParents children]] or [[BigBrotherBully siblings]] are often targeted by the Phantom Thieves. Changing someone's heart requires ''unanimous approval'' from the Thieves, and the game seems to consider this the right thing to do.

* Okumura, the fifth target, is meant to ultimately be more sympathetic than many of the other targets. This is in large part due to how thoroughly he recants and apologizes at the end of his Palace and how he truly cares for his daughter Haru deep down, [[spoiler:as well as the fact that he's assassinated on live TV after his change of heart]]. However, his original sin is arranging Haru's marriage for political gain. While arranged marriage is still decently common in Japan (especially among the well-to-do), and while the game is unambiguous that the situation is cruel and unfair to Haru, the Western world would consider Okumura's actions horrendous. In Anglophone countries, the practice of arranged marriage for power's sake has become universally reviled, and it makes Haru seem like nothing but a bargaining chip (which Okumura's Palace emphasizes at points). Okumura's initial willingness to force Haru into a marriage with a man who is two drinks and a bad day short of being a ''physically violent rapist'' puts Okumura squarely into the Kamoshida tier of villainy for many.[[note]]The conversation between Okumura's Shadow and the manifestation of how Okumura sees his future son-in-law makes it clear that Okumura knows fully well what he's doing, and doesn't care.[[/note]] Thus, Okumua's apology doesn't do much to mitigate things. It doesn't help that his pre-battle "apology" was a lie to get the Thieves to lower their guard. [[spoiler:Opinion might've softened on him if he had more time to follow up on improving his relationship with Haru and making her life better, but since he isn't given the chance, a Westerner would probably still have trouble with it.]]

* A person's status as an illegitimate child. Illegitimate and adopted children in Japan face far more discrimination compared to many western countries, as a family's image and prestige holds a lot of weight, and simply ''being'' a bastard [[BastardAngst is considered an irredeemable flaw]]. Under Japan's ''koseki'' family registration system, discrimination against illegitimate children in family law situations was completely legal until 2013. ''Koseki'' law is gradually becoming less relevant, but it's still a major aspect of Japanese family law.

* Sadayo Kawakami's romance is meant to be seen as, while certainly ''taboo'' (which she takes great pains to remind you), to be more of an issue of age than a TeacherStudentRomance on principle. What is supposed to make her different from [[DirtyOldMan Kamoshida]] is that the ''student'' approaches ''her'', and the affection is explicitly confirmed up front as mutual and consensual, as opposed to Kamoshida, who resorts to emotional blackmail and abuse of his authority. That doesn't cut it with a lot of fans, who still see it as a huge DoubleStandard relating to the power a teacher has over their students.

* Westerners might not realize Ann dealing with SlutShaming is more than just her being a pretty girl -- it also has to do with the fact that she's quarter-white. Caucasians are often exoticized in Japanese culture and one of the most common negative stereotypes Japanese people have of Westerners is that they're very sexually forward. So while Ann being labelled as a slut would be a bad thing in both the West and the East, Western players are likely to miss out on the racial aspect being criticized.

Values Dissonance plays a part in ''Persona 5'' due to the story's thorough examinations and criticisms of Japanese culture. While someone from outside of Japan is still capable of judging the game on its own merits, some things get lost outside of its home country.

* Westerners might not realize Ann dealing with SlutShaming is more than just her being a pretty girl -- it also has to do with the fact that she's quarter-white. Caucasians are often exoticized in Japanese culture and one of the most common negative stereotypes Japanese people have of Westerners is that they're very sexually forward. So while Ann being labelled as a slut would be a bad thing in both the West and the East, Western players are likely to miss out on the racial aspect being criticized.

* Westerners might not realize Ann dealing with SlutShaming is more than just her being a pretty girl -- it also has to do with the fact that she's quarter-white. Caucasians are often exoticized in Japanese culture and one of the most common negative stereotypes Japanese people have of Westerners is that they're very sexually forward. So while Ann being labelled as a slut would be a bad thing in both the West and the East, it's based off of stereotypes that are more commonly known to Japanese players.

** There's a somewhat more positive contrast in the same game, but it's one that many Anglophones still miss. [[spoiler:Futaba and her mother Wakaba would be in a similar position legally, but this is meant to make them and their relationship remarkable. A lot of Futaba's initial guilt comes from the fact that she believes she was responsible for her mother's death, with the other implication being that Futaba and the world around her thinks "of course a ''dirty bastard'' would do such a thing." As a result, Futaba ends up passed to abusive relatives who see no reason not to treat her like dirt until Sojiro rescues her. Wakaba's genuine love for Futaba, though, is meant to be astonishing - when Wakaba becomes pregnant with Futaba, she just takes it in stride and loves her daughter with all her heart, no strings attached. This is almost ''absurdly'' romantic for Japanese society. Sojiro's account of it is meant to cement in the player's head that Wakaba absolutely did love Futaba and was a good person, all by itself.]] All of this still works to a degree in English, but the sheer impact just isn't the same, since single parents and children outside of marriage aren't uncommon in Anglophone countries.

* After being falsely accused of assaulting a government official, Joker is sentenced to a year's probation. To an American, this is a slap on the wrist but to the Japanese, having any blemish on your record irrevocably tarnishes your name forever. Hence why everyone intially treats Joker like he's a hardened criminal and why he had to move to another city just to find a school that would accept him.
* Ann's bikini shot in the fourth trailer [[{{Squick}} creeped a few western fans out]], echoing the reaction to Rise's commercial at the start of ''VideoGame/Persona4''. Fanservice involving high schoolers is very common in Japanese entertainment, which the ''Persona'' series has always closely rubbed shoulders with; as such, in Japan, there were almost no eyebrows raised by this at all.

* A person's status as an illegitimate child. Illegitimate and adopted children in Japan face far more discrimination compared to many western countries, as a family's image and prestige holds a lot of weight, and simply ''being'' a bastard [[BastardAngst is considered an irredeemable flaw.]] Under Japan's ''koseki'' family registration system, which is gradually becoming less relevant but is still a major aspect of Japanese family law, discrimination against illegitimate children in family law situations was completely legal until 2013. While the stigma of shame for having a love child exists in many countries, the consequences that [[spoiler:Shido potentially faces should his relationship with Akechi come to light would put a swift end to his career and outright ruin his life. His mistress ''and'' Akechi, meanwhile, have already suffered the consequences; the mistress let herself ''die'' because of the shame and stigma, and Akechi had to put up living in a string of abusive households because of his parentage. And since Akechi's a popular TV personality on top of being a detective, ''that'' portion of his career would likely be destroyed if his status got out. All three of them have had/still have the right to be afraid of exposure. By the time Akechi reaches Shido's palace, however, he doesn't care about his own reputation being ruined anymore and just wants Shido to suffer]].
** As a somewhat more positive contrast that many Anglophones still miss, [[spoiler:Futaba and her mother Wakaba would be in a similar position legally, but this is meant to make them and their relationship remarkable. A lot of Futaba's initial guilt comes from the fact that she believes she was responsible for her mother's death, with the other implication being that Futaba and the world around her thinks "of course a ''dirty bastard'' would do such a thing." As a result, Futaba ends up passed to abusive relatives who see no reason not to treat her like dirt until Sojiro rescues her. Wakaba's genuine love for Futaba, though, is meant to be astonishing - when Wakaba becomes pregnant with Futaba, she just takes it in stride and loves her daughter with all her heart, no strings attached. This is almost ''absurdly'' romantic for Japanese society. Sojiro's account of it is meant to cement in the player's head that Wakaba absolutely did love Futaba and was a good person, all by itself. It still works to a degree in English, but the sheer impact just isn't the same, since single parents aren't uncommon in Anglophone countries.]]

** The game's CentralTheme is a big one. In Western cultures (particularly America), "stand up to corrupt authority rather than blindly following it" comes across as a CaptainObviousAesop, but it's extremely relevant (and actually quite radical) for Japan. [[JapanesePoliteness Respect for social superiors is heavily ingrained into the culture]], to the point of being hard-wired into [[{{Keigo}} the language itself]]. All of the Phantom Thieves' targets are in positions that Japanese society demands respect from, which [[VillainWithGoodPublicity is why they got away with their actions for so long]].