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I wrote most of this while the thread was locked. After that, I looked back at [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13344112380A34560100&page=73#1815 this]] and I think what I have pretty much agrees with it.
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* To elicit [[SympathyForTheDevil sympathy for the perpetrator]]
** If it's "that poor person, there's something wrong with them that drove them to do this horrible thing", possibly keep
** If it's "that poor person, society just doesn't understand them," almost certainly cut
** If it's "that poor person, there's something wrong with them that drove them to do this horrible thing", possibly keep
** If it's "that poor person, society just doesn't understand them," almost certainly cut
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[[folder:Cutting pages for content]]
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[[/folder]]
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We are probably going to lose pages I like[[hottip:*:not as fap material]]; I have odd tastes, and I like {{beige|Prose}} descriptions of sexual topics like on the page we had for {{Literotica}}.
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We are probably going to lose pages I like[[hottip:*:not as fap material]]; I have odd tastes, and I like {{beige|Prose}} descriptions of sexual topics like on the page we had for {{Literotica}}.
{{Literotica}}, or for ''TheStoryOfO''.
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But I don't think we'll lose anything I don't want to lose aside from all that if we get rid of pages on pure pornography (works whose sole ''raison d'être'' is causing arousal) and on anything with:
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But I don't think we'll lose anything I don't want to lose aside from all that if we get rid of pages on pure pornography (works whose sole ''raison d'être'' is causing arousal) and on anything with:
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I can hear the RulesLawyers now: "What makes someone a child?" "What makes a portrayal positive?" "What's legitimate? What's normal?" "What makes a scene pornographic?" The answer to all of those is "whatever the panel decides, ultimately, but it probably means pretty much what you think it means." FetishRetardant and FanDisservice (beyond the fact that there are kids in) aren't directly relevant, but I imagine the panel would take them into account when considering if a portrayal is positive.
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I can hear the RulesLawyers {{Rules Lawyer}}s now: "What makes someone a child?" "What makes a portrayal positive?" "What's legitimate? What's normal?" "What makes a scene pornographic?" The answer to all of those is "whatever the panel decides, ultimately, but it probably means pretty much what you think it means." FetishRetardant and FanDisservice (beyond the fact that there are kids in) aren't directly relevant, but I imagine the panel would take them into account when considering if a portrayal is positive.
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[[folder:The content rules]]
We are inevitably going to lose things I don't want to lose; I don't want to lose anything.
We are probably going to lose pages I like[[hottip:*:not as fap material]]; I have odd tastes, and I like {{beige|Prose}} descriptions of sexual topics like on the page we had for {{Literotica}}.
But I don't think we'll lose anything I don't want to lose aside from all that if we get rid of pages on pure pornography (works whose sole ''raison d'être'' is causing arousal) and on anything with:
* An endorsement or positive portrayal of non-[[PlayingDoctor innocent]] sexual activity involving children.
* Any portrayal of children as the legitimate objects of sexual desire for normal adults in a way that implies this is or should be normal or acceptible in contemporary U.S. society.
* Pornographic scenes involving children.
As well as PornWithPlot works in which children appear. I don't think this is automatically icky, if a strict separation is maintained, but I'm totally sympathetic with people who think it is, and I don't think it's worth arguing over.
I can hear the RulesLawyers now: "What makes someone a child?" "What makes a portrayal positive?" "What's legitimate? What's normal?" "What makes a scene pornographic?" The answer to all of those is "whatever the panel decides, ultimately, but it probably means pretty much what you think it means." FetishRetardant and FanDisservice (beyond the fact that there are kids in) aren't directly relevant, but I imagine the panel would take them into account when considering if a portrayal is positive.
I wrote most of this while the thread was locked. After that, I looked back at [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13344112380A34560100&page=73#1815 this]] and I think what I have pretty much agrees with it.
I'm fine with that. I don't think I'm going to agree with all the P5 decisions but if that's a reasonable guide I think I can predict a lot of them fairly well, and duly prepare defenses and appeals.
----
That's a content approach to defining pedoshit. As an alternative or supplement, there is also a context approach. That asks why (in the Doylist sense) there's adult-child[=/=]adult-teen sex in the work:
* To tittilate: cut
* To shock: probably cut
* To groom: [[CaptainObvious nuke from orbit]]
* To advocate: cut, unless, perhaps, [[StrawmanHasAPoint it does such a poor job of it that it has the opposite effect]]
* To show the perpetrator's depravity: probably keep
* To show [[DeliberateValuesDissonance the society's depravity]]: probably keep
* To elicit sympathy for the victim: [[RapeAsBackstory cheap emotional manipulation]], but probably keep
* To [[FreudianExcuse explain the victim's later behavior]]: probably keep?
* Etc., etc., etc.
Again, which it is in each case is something a person -- or, say, a group of five people -- is going to have to decide.
[[/folder]]
We are inevitably going to lose things I don't want to lose; I don't want to lose anything.
We are probably going to lose pages I like[[hottip:*:not as fap material]]; I have odd tastes, and I like {{beige|Prose}} descriptions of sexual topics like on the page we had for {{Literotica}}.
But I don't think we'll lose anything I don't want to lose aside from all that if we get rid of pages on pure pornography (works whose sole ''raison d'être'' is causing arousal) and on anything with:
* An endorsement or positive portrayal of non-[[PlayingDoctor innocent]] sexual activity involving children.
* Any portrayal of children as the legitimate objects of sexual desire for normal adults in a way that implies this is or should be normal or acceptible in contemporary U.S. society.
* Pornographic scenes involving children.
As well as PornWithPlot works in which children appear. I don't think this is automatically icky, if a strict separation is maintained, but I'm totally sympathetic with people who think it is, and I don't think it's worth arguing over.
I can hear the RulesLawyers now: "What makes someone a child?" "What makes a portrayal positive?" "What's legitimate? What's normal?" "What makes a scene pornographic?" The answer to all of those is "whatever the panel decides, ultimately, but it probably means pretty much what you think it means." FetishRetardant and FanDisservice (beyond the fact that there are kids in) aren't directly relevant, but I imagine the panel would take them into account when considering if a portrayal is positive.
I wrote most of this while the thread was locked. After that, I looked back at [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13344112380A34560100&page=73#1815 this]] and I think what I have pretty much agrees with it.
I'm fine with that. I don't think I'm going to agree with all the P5 decisions but if that's a reasonable guide I think I can predict a lot of them fairly well, and duly prepare defenses and appeals.
----
That's a content approach to defining pedoshit. As an alternative or supplement, there is also a context approach. That asks why (in the Doylist sense) there's adult-child[=/=]adult-teen sex in the work:
* To tittilate: cut
* To shock: probably cut
* To groom: [[CaptainObvious nuke from orbit]]
* To advocate: cut, unless, perhaps, [[StrawmanHasAPoint it does such a poor job of it that it has the opposite effect]]
* To show the perpetrator's depravity: probably keep
* To show [[DeliberateValuesDissonance the society's depravity]]: probably keep
* To elicit sympathy for the victim: [[RapeAsBackstory cheap emotional manipulation]], but probably keep
* To [[FreudianExcuse explain the victim's later behavior]]: probably keep?
* Etc., etc., etc.
Again, which it is in each case is something a person -- or, say, a group of five people -- is going to have to decide.
[[/folder]]
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* I could not help vandalising your page after I saw the Yiddish in your title. -@/{{desdendelle}}
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* I could not help vandalising your page after I saw the Yiddish in your title. -@/{{desdendelle}}-@/{{desdendelle}}
* I can vandalize your page here? AWESOME! -{{Tropers/Pittsburghmuggle}}
* I can vandalize your page here? AWESOME! -{{Tropers/Pittsburghmuggle}}
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On a not unrelated note, changing things to fend off concern trolls and TOS trolls, especially after the fact, is essentially feeding them.
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Opinions on matters of current import. I intend to change this section a lot.
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There are no works pages I would rather cut than keep. Not even that one. Nope, not that one either. There are some that I don't think are as, well, important than others; there are some where the preference to keep is razor-thin and based entirely in the general principle. I am concerned about an attitude of "'art' is a word perverts use to defend their filth" or, more {{Godwin|sLaw}}ishly, "when I see the word 'art' I reach for my revolver." That's not quite the comparison that best fits, but I do think it's [=McCarthyist=].
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There are no works pages I would rather cut than keep. Not even that one. Nope, not that one either. There are some that I don't think are as, well, important than others; there are some where the preference to keep is razor-thin and based entirely in the general principle. I am concerned about an attitude of "'art' is a word perverts use to defend their filth" or, more {{Godwin|sLaw}}ishly, "when I see the word 'art' I reach for my revolver." That's not quite the comparison that best fits, but I do think it's [=McCarthyist=].
[=McCarthyist=]. I worry about a tendency towards [[NoPrudishness prudishness]] that I think will weaken the wiki.
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Neither of those descriptors has been true for a while.
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On the wiki I'm a GrammarNazi and champion of the {{Analysis/Analysis}} section. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershele_Ostropoler The name?]] Well, I'm [[InformedJudaism Jewish]] and [[{{Trickster}} sarcastic]].
If you see comments from this username anywhere on the Web, odds are it's me.
If you see comments from this username anywhere on the Web, odds are it's me.
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!!Wiki politics
There are no works pages I would rather cut than keep. Not even that one. Nope, not that one either. There are some that I don't think are as, well, important than others; there are some where the preference to keep is razor-thin and based entirely in the general principle. I am concerned about an attitude of "'art' is a word perverts use to defend their filth" or, more {{Godwin|sLaw}}ishly, "when I see the word 'art' I reach for my revolver." That's not quite the comparison that best fits, but I do think it's [=McCarthyist=].
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* Don't forget to smile! It's very important you know.
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* Don't forget to smile! It's very important you know.know.
* I could not help vandalising your page after I saw the Yiddish in your title. -@/{{desdendelle}}
* I could not help vandalising your page after I saw the Yiddish in your title. -@/{{desdendelle}}
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Updating while on line for the April 5th, 2012 taping
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* ''Series/TheColbertReport''
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* ''Series/TheColbertReport''''Series/TheColbertReport'' (twice!)
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* A not-for-air pilot of the [[TransAtlanticEquivalent American version]] of ''HaveIGotNewsForYou''
* ''TheDailyShow''
* ''TheColbertReport''
* ''WhoWantsToBeAMillionaire''
* ''TheDailyShow''
* ''TheColbertReport''
* ''WhoWantsToBeAMillionaire''
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* A not-for-air pilot of the [[TransAtlanticEquivalent American version]] of ''HaveIGotNewsForYou''
''Series/HaveIGotNewsForYou''
*''TheDailyShow''
''Series/TheDailyShow''
*''TheColbertReport''
''Series/TheColbertReport''
*''WhoWantsToBeAMillionaire''
''Series/WhoWantsToBeAMillionaire''
* ''Radio/AskMeAnother'' on {{NPR}} (twice!)
*
*
*
* ''Radio/AskMeAnother'' on {{NPR}} (twice!)
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@/HersheleOstropoler is an unemployed 33-year-old writer in [[BigApplesauce New York]]. If you would like to employ him, get in touch.
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@/HersheleOstropoler is an unemployed a semi-employed 33-year-old writer in [[BigApplesauce New York]]. If you would like to fully employ him, get in touch.
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* CommunitiedOut: To the point that I had to set up a three-day rotation.
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** 2011 participant, lost, but got further, both in word count and days of writing, than ever before.
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** 2011 participant, lost, ran aground on the EightDeadlyWords but got further, both in word count and days of writing, than ever before.
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* InformedLocale (YKTTW, not launch)
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* InformedLocale InformedLocation (YKTTW, not launch)
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* {{NaNoWriMo}}: 2010 participant, though thanks in part to computer troubles I lost momentum after about a week.
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* {{NaNoWriMo}}: {{NaNoWriMo}}:
** 2010 participant, though thanks in part to computer troubles I lost momentum after about aweek.week.
** 2011 participant, lost, but got further, both in word count and days of writing, than ever before.
** 2010 participant, though thanks in part to computer troubles I lost momentum after about a
** 2011 participant, lost, but got further, both in word count and days of writing, than ever before.
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@/HersheleOstropoler is a 33-year-old writer in [[BigApplesauce New York]].
%%If you would like to employ him, get in touch.
%%If you would like to employ him, get in touch.
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@/HersheleOstropoler is a an unemployed 33-year-old writer in [[BigApplesauce New York]].
%%IfYork]]. If you would like to employ him, get in touch.
%%If
* InformedLocale (YKTTW, not launch)
* ''TheRumDiary''
* ''TheRumDiary''
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* ''TheColbertReport''
* ''WhoWantsToBeAMillionaire''
* ''WhoWantsToBeAMillionaire''
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Watch this space, I have a discussion of my long absence
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@/HersheleOstropoler is a 32-year-old writer in [[BigApplesauce New York]].
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@/HersheleOstropoler is a 32-year-old 33-year-old writer in [[BigApplesauce New York]].
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%%* [=~Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics~=]
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%%* [=~Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics~=]LiesDamnedLiesAndStatistics
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being cut
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* SquareJokeRoundScript
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** ScriptFrenzy: 2011 participant.
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** ScriptFrenzy: 2011 participant.participant, but for no good reason lost momentum even faster.
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@/HersheleOstropoler is a 32-year-old unemployed writer in [[BigApplesauce New York]]. If you would like to employ him, get in touch.
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@/HersheleOstropoler is a 32-year-old unemployed writer in [[BigApplesauce New York]]. If York]].
%%If you would like to employ him, get in touch.
%%If you would like to employ him, get in touch.
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* [[strike:{{NaNoWriMo}}: 2010 participant, though thanks in part to computer troubles I lost momentum after about a week.]]
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* [[strike:{{NaNoWriMo}}: {{NaNoWriMo}}: 2010 participant, though thanks in part to computer troubles I lost momentum after about a week.]]
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* {{NaNoWriMo}}: 2010 participant, though thanks in part to computer troubles I lost momentum after about a week.
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* {{NaNoWriMo}}: [[strike:{{NaNoWriMo}}: 2010 participant, though thanks in part to computer troubles I lost momentum after about a week.]]
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* A ''Film/{{Spider-Man}}'' reboot, for some values of "near" (a subway stop away, but on the other side of it)
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%%* TroperTales/ADateWithRosiePalms
%%* TroperTales/BadassLongcoat
%%* TroperTales/BadassLongcoat
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* TroperTales/ConvenientlyCommonKink
%%if it was saved
%%if it was saved
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* TroperTales/ConvenientlyCommonKink
%%if it was savedTroperTales/ConvenientlyCommonKink
%%if it was saved
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%%* TroperTales/{{Moe}}
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%%* TroperTales/TheJailBaitWait
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I just ruined her life
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* CurrentEventsBlog: [[http://somefacts.wordpress.com/ Some Facts/What This Means for You]], on indefinite hiatus, and (with my partner) [[http://deweydecimate.wordpress.com/ Dewey Decimate]], also seldom updated
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* CurrentEventsBlog: [[http://somefacts.wordpress.com/ Some Facts/What This Means for You]], on indefinite hiatus, and (with [[@/{{Porcelain72}} my partner) partner]]) [[http://deweydecimate.wordpress.com/ Dewey Decimate]], also seldom updated
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If you came from the forums because you remember this icon and signature with a different name, I used to be @/CALieber.