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* DyeingForYourArt: Phoenix lost a considerable amount of weight to get the Joker's [[LeanAndMean lanky build]].

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* DyeingForYourArt: Phoenix Creator/JoaquinPhoenix lost a considerable amount lot of weight for his role. It was so serious that filming could only be done once, with no opportunity for reshoots. Todd Phillips had to get write the Joker's [[LeanAndMean lanky build]].script during production.
* InspirationForTheWork: The filmmakers cite ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'' and the Creator/MartinScorsese films ''Film/TaxiDriver'', ''Film/RagingBull'' and ''Film/TheKingOfComedy as an influence on the film.



** Creator/AlecBaldwin and Creator/ViggoMortensen were approached for the part of Thomas Wayne before Creator/BrettCullen was cast. The former turned down the offer due to scheduling commitments to ''[[Literature/MotherlessBrooklyn Motherless Brooklyn]]''.

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** Creator/AlecBaldwin and Creator/ViggoMortensen were approached for the part of Thomas Wayne before Creator/BrettCullen was cast. The former turned down the offer due to scheduling commitments to ''[[Literature/MotherlessBrooklyn Motherless Brooklyn]]''.''Literature/MotherlessBrooklyn''.
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** Creator/JoaquinPhoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge. As mentioned below, he was also interested in the idea of playing a comic book character without committing to multiple sequels.

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** Creator/JoaquinPhoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge. As mentioned below, he He was also interested in the idea of playing a comic book character without committing to multiple sequels.

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** Creator/JoaquinPhoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge.

to:

** Creator/JoaquinPhoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge. As mentioned below, he was also interested in the idea of playing a comic book character without committing to multiple sequels.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* TroubledProduction: A group of extras reported that they were locked in a subway car for hours against union rules, and all their attempts to bring this up were ignored, until some of them even had to urinate out the window. SAG stepped in upon hearing about the situation to closely monitor the production.

to:

* TroubledProduction: A group of extras reported that they were locked in a subway car for hours against union rules, and all their attempts to bring this up were ignored, ignored until some of them even had to urinate out the window. SAG stepped in upon hearing about the situation to closely monitor the production.
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* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but didn't want the strings that come attached with being involved in a franchise like the Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse or Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse. When he heard that Creator/WarnerBrothers (who owns Creator/DCComics and all related media) was looking to make a lower budget standalone film that focused on ComicBook/TheJoker, he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.

to:

* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but didn't want the strings that come attached with being involved in a franchise like the Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse or Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse. When he heard that Creator/WarnerBrothers (who (which owns Creator/DCComics and all related media) was looking to make a lower budget standalone film that focused on ComicBook/TheJoker, he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.
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* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but didn't want the strings that come attached with being involved in a franchise like the Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse or Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse. When he heard that Creator/{{DC|Comics}} was looking to make a lower budget film that focused on ComicBook/TheJoker he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.

to:

* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but didn't want the strings that come attached with being involved in a franchise like the Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse or Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse. When he heard that Creator/{{DC|Comics}} Creator/WarnerBrothers (who owns Creator/DCComics and all related media) was looking to make a lower budget standalone film that focused on ComicBook/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker, he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.
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** Creator/FrancesMcDormand turned down the role of Arthur's mother before Creator/FrancesConroy was cast.

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** Creator/FrancesMcDormand turned down the role of Arthur's mother before Creator/FrancesConroy was cast.the casting of Creator/FrancesConroy.

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** Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was considered for the role of ComicBook/TheJoker before Creator/JoaquinPhoenix was cast.
** Creator/AlecBaldwin was initially cast as Thomas Wayne before the casting of Creator/BrettCullen, but ultimately dropped out due to scheduling conflicts.
*** Creator/ViggoMortensen reportedly turned down the part of Thomas Wayne as well before Cullen was cast.
** Creator/FrancesMcDormand declined the offer to portray Arthur's mother before Creator/FrancesConroy was cast in the part.

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** Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was and Creator/BillSkarsgard were considered for the role of ComicBook/TheJoker [[Comicbook/TheJoker Arthur Fleck]] before Creator/JoaquinPhoenix was cast.
the casting of Creator/JoaquinPhoenix.
** Creator/AlecBaldwin was initially cast as Thomas Wayne before the casting of Creator/BrettCullen, but ultimately dropped out due to scheduling conflicts.
***
and Creator/ViggoMortensen reportedly turned down were approached for the part of Thomas Wayne as well before Cullen Creator/BrettCullen was cast.
cast. The former turned down the offer due to scheduling commitments to ''[[Literature/MotherlessBrooklyn Motherless Brooklyn]]''.
** Creator/FrancesMcDormand declined turned down the offer to portray role of Arthur's mother before Creator/FrancesConroy was cast in the part.cast.

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* AwesomeDearBoy: Creator/JoaquinPhoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge.

to:

* AwesomeDearBoy: AwesomeDearBoy:
**
Creator/JoaquinPhoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge.challenge.
** Marc Maron, who has a rather well-documented dislike of comic book movies, said he agreed to take part in the film because getting a chance to work with Robert De Niro and Joaquin Phoenix was too big an opportunity to pass up.
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* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but didn't want the strings that come attached with being involved in a franchise like the MCU or DCEU. When he heard that DC was looking to make a lower budget film that focused on The Joker he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.

to:

* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but didn't want the strings that come attached with being involved in a franchise like the MCU Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse or DCEU. Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse. When he heard that DC Creator/{{DC|Comics}} was looking to make a lower budget film that focused on The Joker ComicBook/TheJoker he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but in a way that wasn't produced like the MCU or the DCEU. When he heard that DC was looking to make a lower budget film that focused on The Joker he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.

to:

* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but didn't want the strings that come attached with being involved in a way that wasn't produced franchise like the MCU or the DCEU. When he heard that DC was looking to make a lower budget film that focused on The Joker he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In a case of what could ''not'' have been, Phoenix had been in talks with Marvel to play the titular ''Film/DoctorStrange2016'' after Creator/BenedictCumberbach initially turned down the part due to scheduling conflicts, but ultimately backed out due to his reluctance to take on a multi-picture deal. Presumably, had he not been so reluctant, we wouldn't be getting this film (or at the very least, someone else would be taking on the role).

to:

** In a case of what could ''not'' have been, Phoenix had been in talks with Marvel to play the titular ''Film/DoctorStrange2016'' after Creator/BenedictCumberbach Creator/BenedictCumberbatch initially turned down the part due to scheduling conflicts, but ultimately backed out due to his reluctance to take on a multi-picture deal. Presumably, had he not been so reluctant, we wouldn't be getting this film (or at the very least, someone else would be taking on the role).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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** In a case of what could ''not'' have been, Phoenix had been in talks with Marvel to play the titular ''Film/DoctorStrange2016'' after Creator/BenedictCumberbach initially turned down the part due to scheduling conflicts, but ultimately backed out due to his reluctance to take on a multi-picture deal. Presumably, had he not been so reluctant, we wouldn't be getting this film (or at the very least, someone else would be taking on the role).

to:

** In a case of what could ''not'' have been, Phoenix had been in talks with Marvel to play the titular ''Film/DoctorStrange2016'' after Creator/BenedictCumberbach initially turned down the part due to scheduling conflicts, but ultimately backed out due to his reluctance to take on a multi-picture deal. Presumably, had he not been so reluctant, we wouldn't be getting this film (or at the very least, someone else would be taking on the role).
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None

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** In a case of what could ''not'' have been, Phoenix had been in talks with Marvel to play the titular ''Film/DoctorStrange2016'' after Creator/BenedictCumberbach initially turned down the part due to scheduling conflicts, but ultimately backed out due to his reluctance to take on a multi-picture deal. Presumably, had he not been so reluctant, we wouldn't be getting this film (or at the very least, someone else would be taking on the role).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* TroubledProduction: A group of extras reported that they were locked in a subway car for hours against union rules, and all their attempts to bring this up were ignored, until some of them even had to urinate out the window. SAG stepped in upon hearing about the situation to closely monitor the production.

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** Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was considered for the lead role.
** Creator/AlecBaldwin was offered the role of Thomas Wayne, but declined due to scheduling conflicts.

to:

** Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was considered for the lead role.
role of ComicBook/TheJoker before Creator/JoaquinPhoenix was cast.
** Creator/AlecBaldwin was offered the role of initially cast as Thomas Wayne, Wayne before the casting of Creator/BrettCullen, but declined ultimately dropped out due to scheduling conflicts.conflicts.
*** Creator/ViggoMortensen reportedly turned down the part of Thomas Wayne as well before Cullen was cast.
** Creator/FrancesMcDormand declined the offer to portray Arthur's mother before Creator/FrancesConroy was cast in the part.
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* PlayingAgainstType/FilmDirecting: You wouldn't expect Todd Phillips, the man who brought us ''Film/TheHangover'' trilogy to direct a DC film. [[Film/WarDogs This hasn't been the first time he'd direct against type, though.]]

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* PlayingAgainstType/FilmDirecting: You PlayingAgainstType: A directing example--you wouldn't expect someone like Todd Phillips, the man who brought us ''Film/TheHangover'' trilogy trilogy, to direct a DC film. [[Film/WarDogs This hasn't been the first time he'd direct against type, though.]]
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* PlayingAgainstTypeFilmDirecting: You wouldn't expect Todd Phillips, the man who brought us ''Film/TheHangover'' trilogy to direct a DC film. [[Film/WarDogs This hasn't been the first time he'd direct against type, though.]]

to:

* PlayingAgainstTypeFilmDirecting: PlayingAgainstType/FilmDirecting: You wouldn't expect Todd Phillips, the man who brought us ''Film/TheHangover'' trilogy to direct a DC film. [[Film/WarDogs This hasn't been the first time he'd direct against type, though.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* PlayingAgainstTypeFilmDirecting: You wouldn't expect Todd Phillips, the man who brought us ''[[TheHangover]]'' trilogy to direct a DC film. [[WarDogs This hasn't been the first time he'd direct against type, though.]]

to:

* PlayingAgainstTypeFilmDirecting: You wouldn't expect Todd Phillips, the man who brought us ''[[TheHangover]]'' ''Film/TheHangover'' trilogy to direct a DC film. [[WarDogs [[Film/WarDogs This hasn't been the first time he'd direct against type, though.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* PlayingAgainstTypeFilmDirecting: You wouldn't expect Todd Phillips, the man who brought us ''[[TheHangover]]'' trilogy to direct a DC film. [[WarDogs This hasn't been the first time he'd direct against type, though.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DyeingForYourArt: Creator/JoaquinPhoenix lost a considerable amount of weight to get the Joker's [[LeanAndMean lanky build]].

to:

* DyeingForYourArt: Creator/JoaquinPhoenix Phoenix lost a considerable amount of weight to get the Joker's [[LeanAndMean lanky build]].

Added: 342

Changed: 9

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* AwesomeDearBoy: Joaquin Phoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge.

to:

* AwesomeDearBoy: Joaquin Phoenix Creator/JoaquinPhoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge.challenge.
* DoingItForTheArt: Joaquin Phoenix stated that he always wanted to do a character study of a comic book villain but in a way that wasn't produced like the MCU or the DCEU. When he heard that DC was looking to make a lower budget film that focused on The Joker he became interested in the project since it was so similar to his previous idea.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Venom is more of a anti-hero.


* FollowTheLeader: Seems to be a response to Creator/SonyPictures' ''Film/{{Venom|2018}}'', being a comic book movie starring a villainous character over their heroic nemesis.
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Mean Character Nice Actor allows only In Universe examples now


* MeanCharacterNiceActor: The most dangerous criminal in Gotham City is played by an environmental/animal rights activist.
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* AwesomeDearBoy: Joaquin Phoenix has said he wanted to do the film because the idea of it scared him and he liked the challenge.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MeanCharacterNiceActor: The most dangerous criminal in Gotham City is played by an animal rights activist.

to:

* MeanCharacterNiceActor: The most dangerous criminal in Gotham City is played by an animal environmental/animal rights activist.

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** Leonardo Di Caprio was considered for the lead role.
** Alec Baldwin was offered the role of Thomas Wayne, but declined due to scheduling conflicts.

to:

** Leonardo Di Caprio Creator/LeonardoDiCaprio was considered for the lead role.
** Alec Baldwin Creator/AlecBaldwin was offered the role of Thomas Wayne, but declined due to scheduling conflicts.conflicts.
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* FollowTheLeader: Seems to be a response to ''Film/{{Venom|2018}}'', being a comic book movie starring a villainous character over their heroic nemesis.

to:

* FollowTheLeader: Seems to be a response to Creator/SonyPictures' ''Film/{{Venom|2018}}'', being a comic book movie starring a villainous character over their heroic nemesis.

Added: 153

Changed: 25

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* DyeingForYourArt: Joaquin Phoenix lost a considerable amount of weight to get the Joker's lanky build.

to:

* DyeingForYourArt: Joaquin Phoenix Creator/JoaquinPhoenix lost a considerable amount of weight to get the Joker's [[LeanAndMean lanky build.build]].
* FollowTheLeader: Seems to be a response to ''Film/{{Venom|2018}}'', being a comic book movie starring a villainous character over their heroic nemesis.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* DyeingForYourArt: Joaquin Phoenix lost a considerable amount of weight to get the Joker's lanky build.
* MeanCharacterNiceActor: The most dangerous criminal in Gotham City is played by an animal rights activist.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen:
** Leonardo Di Caprio was considered for the lead role.
** Alec Baldwin was offered the role of Thomas Wayne, but declined due to scheduling conflicts.

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