History SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism / Theatre

** Then again, the greatest shows of the early Broadway era weren't as lightweight as people remember. ''Show Boat'' dealt fairly realistically with race relations, and not all of the good guys got happy endings. Creator/RodgersAndHammerstein? Hooboy. ''Theatre/{{Oklahoma}}'' has a song wherein the hero tries to convince his rival to commit suicide, and he later kills his rival and is universally praised for doing so. ''TheKingAndI'' has two self-righteous egos butting heads, and one dies at the end. ''TheSoundOfMusic''- yeah, real happy ending: they have to flee their home, leaving behind anything they can't easily carry, in order to escape the Nazis.

** If you've ever read Dr. Seuss's ''[[Literature/HortonHearsAWho Horton Hears A Who!]]'', you know the basic plot of ''{{Seussical}}''. A nice, spirited elephant named Horton discovers a world on a dust speck on a clover, and, of course, everyone thinks he's gone insane when he tells them. He goes through trials and tribulations, and almost has to watch the clover get boiled in Beezlenut oil. But in the end, everyone ends up believing that there really are tiny people on that dust speck, agreeing that "a person's a person no matter how small."

* ''Main/Hairspray'', on the other hand, is unquestionably idealistic. By the end of the show, the antagonists receive their just desserts, prejudice is combated with integration on the dance show, and the heroes are happier and more united than ever.

* ''Theatre/LesMiserables'' is a bit difficult to place far from the center of the scale. The show takes place in the CrapsackWorld of revolutionary France, full of poverty and disease, not to mention shady inkeepers and plenty of war casualties. Even so, there's enough idealism and hope within the characters to keep things positive, bringing the ending to at least something of a hopeful and positive note.

** Then again, the greatest shows of the early Broadway era weren't as lightweight as people remember. ''Show Boat'' dealt fairly realistically with race relations, and not all of the good guys got happy endings. RodgersAndHammerstein? Hooboy. ''Theatre/{{Oklahoma}}'' has a song wherein the hero tries to convince his rival to commit suicide, and he later kills his rival and is universally praised for doing so. ''TheKingAndI'' has two self-righteous egos butting heads, and one dies at the end. ''TheSoundOfMusic''- yeah, real happy ending: they have to flee their home, leaving behind anything they can't easily carry, in order to escape the Nazis.

** Less ambiguously, ''KingLear'', ''{{Coriolanus}}'', ''TimonOfAthens''. ''TroilusAndCessida'' might be the most extreme example; it's among the least performed of Shakespeare's plays for this reason.
* ''{{Urinetown}}'', mentioned above, is a bit more complicated. It starts out as a pretty straightforward clash between the idealist and cynic, but when [[spoiler:the cynic kills the idealist, the forces of idealism find a new leader who is both more idealist and more detached from reality, who blindly propels the story into a NiceJobBreakingItHero]].

** In ''{{Ragtime}}'', the main character, Coalhouse, goes from madly in love to slightly annoyed to [[spoiler:enraged and murderous]], only to end with him singing an entire song about hope and idealism, [[spoiler:albeit after he dies.]]

** Then again, the greatest shows of the early Broadway era weren't as lightweight as people remember. ''Show Boat'' dealt fairly realistically with race relations, and not all of the good guys got happy endings. RodgersAndHammerstein? Hooboy. ''{{Oklahoma}}'' has a song wherein the hero tries to convince his rival to commit suicide, and he later kills his rival and is universally praised for doing so. ''TheKingAndI'' has two self-righteous egos butting heads, and one dies at the end. ''TheSoundOfMusic''- yeah, real happy ending: they have to flee their home, leaving behind anything they can't easily carry, in order to escape the Nazis.

* ''Theatre/CharlieAndTheChocolateFactory'' (the 2013 West End musical) takes place in a world so cynical that even children seem ready to cast off creativity and wonder in favor of ruthless, mindless materialism as soon as they're able, and as grumpy sweetstall owner Mrs. Pratchett puts it early on, "You get nothing for nothing in this world." Poverty-stricken, sweet, imaginative Charlie Bucket and his family watch in increasing despair as the Golden Tickets that grant entrance to the mysterious Wonka Factory fall into the hands of greedy, even underhanded brats. And then, a little luck comes Charlie's way when he finds the last of the five tickets. As it turns out, Willy Wonka is a SugarAndIcePersonality AntiHero who, though he's AmbiguouslyEvil and has NoSympathy for those who would let their greed get the better of them, believes wholeheartedly in the importance of wonder, beauty, and imagination. In his CloudCuckooland, the greed that pays off in the outside world leads to horrible ends, whereas Charlie's goodness and creative drive to make the world a better place for those around him ultimately grant him and his family an incredibly happy ending, making this a rare idealistic BlackComedy.

* ''[[MerrilyWeRollAlong Merrily We Roll Along]]'' is a bizarre example in that it goes backwards. Therefore, it begins very, very cynically and becomes more and more idealistic until we eventually watch the three primary characters meet for the first time [[spoiler:as young, wide-eyed artists with hopes of changing the world.]] A very idealistic ending indeed -- besides the fact that the audiences already knows that their dreams, and their friendships, are going to fall apart in twenty years. Whether this makes the story cynical or idealistic is open to interpretation.

* The musical ''ManOfLaMancha'' is practically a plea for idealism... which is quite the contrast with its original inspiration, ''Literature/DonQuixote'', who ''is'' in the cynic side but moves the slide back and forth for the sake of the funny.

* ''[[MerrilyWeRollAlong Merrily We Roll Along]]'' is a bizarre example in that it goes backwards. Therefore, it begins very, very cynically and becomes more and more idealistic until we eventually watch the three primary characters meet for the first time [[spoiler:as young, wide-eyed artists with hopes of changing the world.]] A very idealistic ending indeed -- besides the fact that you already know they're dreams, and their friendship, is going to fall apart in twenty years. Whether this makes the story cynical or idealistic is open to interpretation.

--> '''Frank Shepard (1957):''' [[spoiler:Do you realize that after this moment, this moment, that the three of us are sharing here together, we're going to be able to do anything? I mean, anything we've ever dreamed. What a time to be starting out. What a time to be alive.]]

* ''[[MerrilyWeRollAlong Merrily We Roll Along]]'' is a bizarre example, in that it goes backwards. Therefore, it begins very, very cynically and becomes more and more idealistic until we eventually watch the three primary characters meet for the first time [[spoiler:as young, wide-eyed artists with hopes of changing the world.]] A very idealistic ending indeed -- besides the fact that you already know they're dreams, and their friendship, is going to fall apart in twenty years. Whether this makes the story cynical or idealistic is open to interpretation.
--> Frank Shepard (1976): Do you really not see that I’m ashamed of all this? That I am as sick of myself as you are? That I just try to keep acting like it all matters. To not let people see how much I hate my life, how much I wish the God damn thing was over —
--> Frank Shepard (1957): [[spoiler:Do you realize that after this moment, this moment, that the three of us are sharing here together, we're going to be able to do anything? I mean, anything we've ever dreamed. What a time to be starting out. What a time to be alive.]]

* Whether Creator/WilliamShakespeare's plays are idealistic or cynical, and how much, is highly debated. The same plays can seem very different depending which critics you read.

* ''Theatre/CharlieAndTheChocolateFactory'' (the 2013 West End musical) takes place in a world so cynical that even children seem ready to cast off creativity and wonder in favor of ruthless, mindless materialism as soon as they're able, and as grumpy sweetstall owner Mrs. Pratchett puts it early on, "You get nothing for nothing in this world." Poverty-stricken, sweet, imaginative Charlie Bucket and his family watch in increasing despair as the Golden Tickets that grant entrance to the mysterious Wonka Factory fall into the hands of four greedy, even underhanded brats. And then, a little luck comes Charlie's way when he finds the last of the five tickets. As it turns out, Willy Wonka is a SugarAndIcePersonality AntiHero who believes wholeheartedly in the importance of wonder, beauty, and imagination, and has NoSympathy for those who would let their greed get the better of them. In his CloudCuckooland, the greed that pays off in the outside world leads to horrible ends, whereas Charlie's goodness and creative drive to make the world a better place for those around him ultimately grant him and his family an incredibly happy ending, making this a rare idealistic BlackComedy.

** If you've ever read Dr. Seuss's ''[[Literature/HortonHearsAWho Horton Hears A Who!]]'', you know the basic plot of ''{{Seussical}}''. A nice, spirited elephant named Horton discovers a world on a dust speck on a clover, and, of course, everyone thinks he's gone insane when he tells them. He goes through trials and tribulations, and almost has to watch the clover get boiled in Beezlenut oil. But in the end, everyone ends up believing that there really are tiny people on that dust speck, agreeing that "a person's a person no matter how small."

* ''Theatre/TheRiseAndFallOfTheCityOfMahagonny'' is cynical enough, but Kurt Weill's next opera, after he split with Creator/BertoltBrecht, ''Die Bürgschaft'', might be even more cynical. Just as a commercial dispute between the protagonist and his friend is about to be resolved with an ArrangedMarriage between their children, the country is taken over by the Great Powers, who impose their law, which is the Law of Money and the Law of Power. Subsequently the country is visited by war, inflation, hunger and disease. While the poor become poorer, the protagonist is too busy making himself richer to look after his dying wife or his missing daughter. Comes the revolution, and his old friend shamelessly betrays him to the bloodthirsty mob.

* In the old days, musicals tended to be highly idealistic comedies. This tendency has been largely lost in contemporary musical theatre: though idealistic shows (e.g. ''La Cage aux Folles'', ''Film/TheProducers'') still are produced, about as common are cynical shows including snide {{Take That}}s against idealism (e.g. ''Chess'', ''Urinetown'').

* CirqueDuSoleil shows are EarnYourHappyEnding at worst (see trope entry for examples), and shimmeringly idealistic at best. ''Saltimbanco'' was intentionally created to counter cynicism and despair, particularly regarding urbanization, in society. And ''Corteo'' takes the concept of the death-dream of a clown and turns it into a loving celebration of life.

** Less ambiguously, ''KingLear'', ''{{Coriolanus}}'', ''TimonOfAthens''. ''{{TroilusAndCessida}}'' might be the most extreme example; it's among the least performed of Shakespeare's plays for this reason.

* ''LittleShopOfHorrors'' starts in cynicism, quickly lifts into idealism, and then slowly descends to a level more cynical than where it started.

* In the old days, musicals tended to be highly idealistic comedies. This tendency has been largely lost in contemporary musical theatre: though idealistic shows (e.g. ''La Cage aux Folles'', ''TheProducers'') still are produced, about as common are cynical shows including snide {{Take That}}s against idealism (e.g. ''Chess'', ''Urinetown'').

* Whether {{Shakespeare}}'s plays are idealistic or cynical, and how much, is highly debated. The same plays can seem very different depending which critics you read.
** [[WilliamShakespeare Shakespeare's]] ''RomeoAndJuliet'' is utterly cynical toward romance as a whole, portraying the two StarCrossedLovers as [[LoveMakesYouCrazy blind to the reality]] of their family feud. Even though the two feuding families finally make peace with each other after the lovers are DrivenToSuicide by their madness, it is still a highly cynical subversion of traditional love stories. You'd never know it, though, from listening to some of its very idealistic fans.

* The musical ''{{Man of La Mancha}}'' is practically a plea for idealism... which is quite the contrast with its original inspiration, ''Literature/DonQuixote'', who ''is'' in the cynic side but moves the slide back and forth for the sake of the funny.

* And then there's the cheerful works of Creator/BertoltBrecht...

* The musical ''{{Chicago}}'' announces its cynicism even before the curtain goes up:

* ''Theatre/TheRiseAndFallOfTheCityOfMahagonny'' is cynical enough, but Kurt Weill's next opera, after he split with BertoltBrecht, ''Die Bürgschaft'', might be even more cynical. Just as a commercial dispute between the protagonist and his friend is about to be resolved with an ArrangedMarriage between their children, the country is taken over by the Great Powers, who impose their law, which is the Law of Money and the Law of Power. Subsequently the country is visited by war, inflation, hunger and disease. While the poor become poorer, the protagonist is too busy making himself richer to look after his dying wife or his missing daughter. Comes the revolution, and his old friend shamelessly betrays him to the bloodthirsty mob.

* And then there's the cheerful works of BertoltBrecht...

* The musical ''{{Man of La Mancha}}'' is practically a plea for idealism... which is quite the contrast with its original inspiration, ''DonQuixote'', who ''is'' in the cynic side but moves the slide back and forth for the sake of the funny.