Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
!Overview (Wyldchyld's OP)
to:
!!Overview
Changed line(s) 13,14 (click to see context) from:
!Summary
to:
Changed line(s) 24,25 (click to see context) from:
!Numbers:
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
!Overview
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 86,87 (click to see context) from:
** NiceJobFixingItVillain: The replica [[VillainHasAPoint rightfully points out]] that Valyx's fixation on Alberius and strive to be exactly like him makes it where he is unfit to be a ruler as he is following somebody else rather following his own path. However, Valyx agrees with him and changes things around by pointing out the same applies to the replica and that he strives to follow his own path from that point with Phares opting to the same after listening in. '''Sinkhole: The entry indicates that the hero isn't moved by the fact the villain says something he agrees with and instead says something that affects the villains. So, this seems to be a "villain makes a point that doesn't impact the hero" issue.'''
to:
** NiceJobFixingItVillain: The replica [[VillainHasAPoint rightfully points out]] that Valyx's fixation on Alberius and strive to be exactly like him makes it where he is unfit to be a ruler as he is following somebody else rather following his own path. However, Valyx agrees with him and changes things around by pointing out the same applies to the replica and that he strives to follow his own path from that point with Phares opting to the same after listening in. '''Sinkhole: The entry indicates that the hero isn't moved by the fact the villain says something he agrees with and instead says something that affects the villains. So, this seems to be a "villain makes a point that doesn't impact the hero" issue.misuse.'''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 86,87 (click to see context) from:
** NiceJobFixingItVillain: The replica [[VillainHasAPoint rightfully points out]] that Valyx's fixation on Alberius and strive to be exactly like him makes it where he is unfit to be a ruler as he is following somebody else rather following his own path. However, Valyx agrees with him and changes things around by pointing out the same applies to the replica and that he strives to follow his own path from that point with Phares opting to the same after listening in. '''Sinkhole: The entry indicates that the hero isn't moved by the fact the villain says something he agrees with and instead says something that affects the villains. So, this seems to be a "villain makes a point that doesn't impact the hero"
to:
** NiceJobFixingItVillain: The replica [[VillainHasAPoint rightfully points out]] that Valyx's fixation on Alberius and strive to be exactly like him makes it where he is unfit to be a ruler as he is following somebody else rather following his own path. However, Valyx agrees with him and changes things around by pointing out the same applies to the replica and that he strives to follow his own path from that point with Phares opting to the same after listening in. '''Sinkhole: The entry indicates that the hero isn't moved by the fact the villain says something he agrees with and instead says something that affects the villains. So, this seems to be a "villain makes a point that doesn't impact the hero"
hero" issue.'''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
* The scope of the trope (a villain vs hero dialogue clash that leaves the hero shaken by the truth of the villain's words).
to:
* The scope of the trope (a (which is supposed to be a villain vs hero dialogue clash that leaves the hero shaken by the truth of the villain's words).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 11,12 (click to see context) from:
At the time the wick check began there were 4059 wicks, resulting in 64 needing to be checked (resulting in 74 examples being checked across 64 wicks).
to:
At the time the wick check began there were 4059 wicks, resulting in 64 needing to be checked (resulting in 74 79 examples being checked across 64 wicks).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 11,12 (click to see context) from:
At the time the wick check began there were 4059 wicks, resulting in 64 needing to be checked. The total number of wicks checked ended up being 74, due to me checking all examples on a page that fell into my check list.
to:
At the time the wick check began there were 4059 wicks, resulting in 64 needing to be checked. The total number of wicks checked ended up being 74, due to me checking all (resulting in 74 examples on a page that fell into my check list.
being checked across 64 wicks).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 11,12 (click to see context) from:
At the time the wick check began there were 4059 wicks, resulting in 64 needing to be checked.
to:
At the time the wick check began there were 4059 wicks, resulting in 64 needing to be checked.
checked. The total number of wicks checked ended up being 74, due to me checking all examples on a page that fell into my check list.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3,4 (click to see context) from:
As per [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13164954120A97000100&page=182#comment-4545 this post]].
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Simplifying the summary.
Changed line(s) 26,44 (click to see context) from:
Summary: 79 (100%)
* Correct: 9 (11%); ZCE: 19 (24%); Total Misuse: 51 (65%) [Misuse: 7 (9%); Other Misuse: 44 (56%)]
* Of which, potholes: 29 (37%) (Correct: 6; ZCE: 5; Sinkhole: 18)
Categories: (79 examples in total from 64 wicks)
* Correct use: 9 (11%) (Potholes: 6/9)
* Misuse, Total: 51 (65%)
** Misuse: 7 (9%) (Sinkholes: 3/7)
*** Incorrect target: 4 (Sinkholes: 1/4)
*** Incorrect point: 2 (Sinkholes: 2/2)
*** Incorrect both: 1 (Sinkholes: 0)
** Other Misuse: 44 (56%) (Sinkholes: 15/44)
*** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
*** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
* ZCE: 19 (24%) (Potholes: 5/19)
** Villain target/impact unknown: 9 (Potholes: 2/9)
** Villain targets a hero, but impact unknown: 4 (Potholes: 1/4)
** Nothing explained/entry is generalised/Unclear: 6 (Potholes: 2/6)
* Correct: 9 (11%); ZCE: 19 (24%); Total Misuse: 51 (65%) [Misuse: 7 (9%); Other Misuse: 44 (56%)]
* Of which, potholes: 29 (37%) (Correct: 6; ZCE: 5; Sinkhole: 18)
Categories: (79 examples in total from 64 wicks)
* Correct use: 9 (11%) (Potholes: 6/9)
* Misuse, Total: 51 (65%)
** Misuse: 7 (9%) (Sinkholes: 3/7)
*** Incorrect target: 4 (Sinkholes: 1/4)
*** Incorrect point: 2 (Sinkholes: 2/2)
*** Incorrect both: 1 (Sinkholes: 0)
** Other Misuse: 44 (56%) (Sinkholes: 15/44)
*** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
*** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
* ZCE: 19 (24%) (Potholes: 5/19)
** Villain target/impact unknown: 9 (Potholes: 2/9)
** Villain targets a hero, but impact unknown: 4 (Potholes: 1/4)
** Nothing explained/entry is generalised/Unclear: 6 (Potholes: 2/6)
to:
* Of which, potholes: 29 (37%) (Correct: 6; ZCE: 5; Sinkhole: 18)
Categories: (79 examples in total from 64 wicks)
*
**
*** Incorrect target: 4 (Sinkholes: 1/4)
*** Incorrect point: 2 (Sinkholes: 2/2)
*** Incorrect both: 1 (Sinkholes: 0)
** Other Misuse: 44 (56%) (Sinkholes: 15/44)
*** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
*** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
*
** Villain target/impact unknown: 9 (Potholes: 2/9)
** Villain targets a hero, but impact unknown: 4 (Potholes: 1/4)
** Nothing explained/entry is generalised/Unclear: 6 (Potholes: 2/6)
* Potholes: 29 (37%)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 190 (click to see context) from:
** HumansAreBastards: He believes that humans never learn from their mistakes, and that war, hatred, evil, and all of the more unfortunate sides of human nature will never disappear. Though, given villains such as Zero, [[OmnicidalManiac who wanted to destroy everything that has form]]; Hades, who [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans planned to eradicate 90% of the world's population for a so-called utopia]]; Future Rogue, who wanted to TakeOverTheWorld at the cost of the extinction of the human race; and [[TranshumanTreachery Acnologia]], by far ''Manga/FairyTail'''s greatest {{Jerkass}}, are all humans, it is [[VillainHasAPoint not that hard to agree with him]]. '''Zeref entry. Audience reaction misuse.'''
to:
** HumansAreBastards: He believes that humans never learn from their mistakes, and that war, hatred, evil, and all of the more unfortunate sides of human nature will never disappear. Though, given villains such as Zero, [[OmnicidalManiac who wanted to destroy everything that has form]]; Hades, who [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans planned to eradicate 90% of the world's population for a so-called utopia]]; Future Rogue, who wanted to TakeOverTheWorld at the cost of the extinction of the human race; and [[TranshumanTreachery Acnologia]], by far ''Manga/FairyTail'''s ''Manga/FairyTail's'' greatest {{Jerkass}}, are all humans, it is [[VillainHasAPoint not that hard to agree with him]]. '''Zeref entry. Audience reaction misuse.'''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 51,56 (click to see context) from:
Correct use:
Amount that are correct potholes:
----
Amount that are correct potholes:
----
to:
Amount that are correct potholes:
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 22,23 (click to see context) from:
Given that both BothSidesHaveAPoint and VillainHasAPoint have had similar "audience reaction" issues, it's possible that JerkassHasAPoint and DumbassHasAPoint may need to be checked as well.
to:
Given that both BothSidesHaveAPoint and VillainHasAPoint have had similar "audience reaction" issues, it's possible that JerkassHasAPoint and DumbassHasAPoint may need to be checked as well.
checking, too.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
Given that both BothSidesHaveAPoint and VillainHasAPoint have had similar "audience reaction" issues, it's possible that JerkassHasAPoint and DumbassHasAPoint may need to be checked as well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
!Overview
Changed line(s) 11,13 (click to see context) from:
Status: Completed
Summary:
Summary:
to:
Summary:
Changed line(s) 21,23 (click to see context) from:
----
to:
Changed line(s) 45 (click to see context) from:
to:
!Wicks
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 11,12 (click to see context) from:
Status: Work in Progress.
to:
Status: Work Completed
Summary:
While there is a lot of potholing and sinkholing of this trope, there wasn't as much as I expected. While there is some misuse of the trope inProgress.
terms of whether the villain side, the hero side, and/or the point being made are correct, it also wasn't the most significant form of misuse. By far the greatest misuse is coming from the audience believing a villain has made a point that they support in some manner, regardless of whether the narrative supports that. This misuse is similar to the problem that BothSidesHaveAPoint suffered and required a TRS to resolve (where the audience believed two sides of an argument had valid points, when the trope was supposed to be about a third party or the narrative observing both sides had valid points).
The three main areas of misuse can be summarised as follows (from most problematic to least):
* Audience reaction (the audience likes a point the villain has made, regardless of whether the narrative supports that or the trope requirements have been met).
* The scope of the trope (a villain vs hero dialogue clash that leaves the hero shaken by the truth of the villain's words).
* Potholes/Sinkholes.
Summary:
While there is a lot of potholing and sinkholing of this trope, there wasn't as much as I expected. While there is some misuse of the trope in
The three main areas of misuse can be summarised as follows (from most problematic to least):
* Audience reaction (the audience likes a point the villain has made, regardless of whether the narrative supports that or the trope requirements have been met).
* The scope of the trope (a villain vs hero dialogue clash that leaves the hero shaken by the truth of the villain's words).
* Potholes/Sinkholes.
Changed line(s) 16,18 (click to see context) from:
* Correct: 9 (11%); Misuse: 7 (9%); ZCE: 19 (24%); Other Misuse: 44 (56%)
* Of which, potholes: 29 (37%) (Correct: 6; Sinkhole: 18; ZCE: 5)
* Of which, potholes: 29 (37%) (Correct: 6; Sinkhole: 18; ZCE: 5)
to:
* Correct: 9 (11%); Misuse: 7 (9%); ZCE: 19 (24%); Total Misuse: 51 (65%) [Misuse: 7 (9%); Other Misuse: 44 (56%)
(56%)]
* Of which, potholes: 29 (37%) (Correct: 6; ZCE: 5; Sinkhole:18; ZCE: 5)
18)
* Of which, potholes: 29 (37%) (Correct: 6; ZCE: 5; Sinkhole:
Changed line(s) 21,24 (click to see context) from:
* Misuse: 7 (9%) (Sinkholes: 3/7)
** Incorrect target: 4 (Sinkholes: 1/4)
** Incorrect point: 2 (Sinkholes: 2/2)
** Incorrect both: 1 (Sinkholes: 0)
** Incorrect target: 4 (Sinkholes: 1/4)
** Incorrect point: 2 (Sinkholes: 2/2)
** Incorrect both: 1 (Sinkholes: 0)
to:
* Misuse, Total: 51 (65%)
** Misuse: 7 (9%) (Sinkholes: 3/7)
** *** Incorrect target: 4 (Sinkholes: 1/4)
** *** Incorrect point: 2 (Sinkholes: 2/2)
** *** Incorrect both: 1 (Sinkholes: 0)0)
** Other Misuse: 44 (56%) (Sinkholes: 15/44)
*** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
*** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
** Misuse: 7 (9%) (Sinkholes: 3/7)
** Other Misuse: 44 (56%) (Sinkholes: 15/44)
*** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
*** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
Changed line(s) 29,32 (click to see context) from:
* Other Misuse: 44 (56%) (Sinkholes: 15/44)
** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
to:
** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 15,17 (click to see context) from:
Categories:
* Correct use: 9 (Potholes: 6/9)
* Misuse: 7 (Sinkholes: 3/7)
* Correct use: 9 (Potholes: 6/9)
* Misuse: 7 (Sinkholes: 3/7)
to:
* Correct: 9 (11%); Misuse: 7 (9%); ZCE: 19 (24%); Other Misuse: 44 (56%)
* Of which, potholes: 29 (37%) (Correct: 6; Sinkhole: 18; ZCE: 5)
Categories: (79 examples in total from 64 wicks)
* Correct use: 9 (11%) (Potholes: 6/9)
* Misuse: 7 (9%) (Sinkholes: 3/7)
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
* ZCE: 19 (Potholes: 5/19)
to:
* ZCE: 19 (24%) (Potholes: 5/19)
Changed line(s) 25,31 (click to see context) from:
* Other misuse:
Potholing Count:
* Pothole (correct):
* Sinkhole:
* ZCE:
Potholing Count:
* Pothole (correct):
* Sinkhole:
* ZCE:
to:
* Other misuse:
Potholing Count:
* Pothole (correct):
* Sinkhole:
* ZCE:
Misuse: 44 (56%) (Sinkholes: 15/44)
** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
Potholing Count:
* Pothole (correct):
* Sinkhole:
* ZCE:
** Different/Averted Trope: 6 (Sinkholes: 3/6)
** Audience Believes Villain Makes A Good Point: 38 (Sinkholes: 12/38)
