Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Quotes / AtopTheFourthWall

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Do not pothole in quotes.


Linkara! [[TitleDrop Atop the Fourth Wall]]\\
[[AlternateUniverse From a parallel world,]]\\
[[MadScientist Stepped Doctor Linksano]].\\

to:

Linkara! [[TitleDrop Atop the Fourth Wall]]\\
[[AlternateUniverse
Wall\\
From a parallel world,]]\\
[[MadScientist
world,\\
Stepped Doctor Linksano]].Linksano.\\



[[HarmlessVillain He's not really a threat]]\\

to:

[[HarmlessVillain He's not really a threat]]\\threat\\



And it seems [[EvilDoppelganger Mechakara's]] [[KilledOffForReal been finally trashed...]]\\

to:

And it seems [[EvilDoppelganger Mechakara's]] [[KilledOffForReal been finally trashed...]]\\\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->So begins them [[[Comicbook/{{Legion Of Super-Heroes}} Triplicate Girl and Karate Kid]]] traveling around trying to find a cure for his [Karate Kid's] disease. Wait a second, I just realized something. These two are running around looking for a cure. Bob [the Monitor]'s group is running around looking for Ray Palmer. [[Franchise/{{Superman}} Jimmy [Olsen]]] and Forager are running around looking for the ComicBook/{{New God|s}} killer. [[Comicbook/TheFlash Trickster and Piper]] are running around looking for a way out of their handcuffs. They should have just called this series ''Running Around Looking for Crap''!

to:

->So begins them [[[Comicbook/{{Legion Of Super-Heroes}} [[[Comicbook/LegionOfSuperHeroes Triplicate Girl and Karate Kid]]] traveling around trying to find a cure for his [Karate Kid's] disease. Wait a second, I just realized something. These two are running around looking for a cure. Bob [the Monitor]'s group is running around looking for Ray Palmer. [[Franchise/{{Superman}} Jimmy [Olsen]]] and Forager are running around looking for the ComicBook/{{New God|s}} killer. [[Comicbook/TheFlash Trickster and Piper]] are running around looking for a way out of their handcuffs. They should have just called this series ''Running Around Looking for Crap''!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Why’s all this art so rubbish?]\\

to:

Why’s all this art so rubbish?]\\rubbish?\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->The major theme of Lovecraftian Horror is hopelessness. Insignificance. How tiny and unimportant we are in the grand scheme of things, and how, inevitably, we will be destroyed, or consumed, or turned into mindless slaves by beings that we can't even begin to comprehend. I believe in hope. I believe there's always a solution, always a way to beat the bad guys, but these... Outer Gods - these ''things'' - exist to tell us that "no, there is no way to beat things in the end," and I ''cannot'' abide that! All the people we love, all the things we do in life, everything that makes life worth living. . . it's '''''significant,''''' ''goddamit!'' We are all ''important!'' Everything we do is ''so. God. Damn. Important!'' I beat the Entity by tricking it - by convincing it that life was meaningless, and I sure as hell don't believe that! But if the Entity is still alive, or if someone like Vyce becomes it, then we're doomed, because... 'cause there's nothing else that we can do. And the same despair that killed ''it'' will kill ''us.'' And I will ''not'' let that happen. If the Entity is alive - or if Vyce becomes it - then I am gonna be the one to shove a sword through it's face, just so I can get up close enough to scream in their ear that '''''WE! ARE! IMPORTANT!''''' Every one of us is important! Every one of us is important. And I'll do whatever I have to to save us all.

to:

->The major theme of Lovecraftian Horror is hopelessness. Insignificance. How tiny and unimportant we are in the grand scheme of things, and how, inevitably, we will be destroyed, or consumed, or turned into mindless slaves by beings that we can't even begin to comprehend. I believe in hope. I believe there's always a solution, always a way to beat the bad guys, but these... Outer Gods - these ''things'' - exist to tell us that "no, there is no way to beat things in the end," and I ''cannot'' abide that! All the people we love, all the things we do in life, everything that makes life worth living. . . it's '''''significant,''''' ''goddamit!'' We are all ''important!'' Everything we do is ''so. God. Damn. Important!'' I beat the Entity by tricking it - by convincing it that life was meaningless, and I sure as hell don't believe that! But if the Entity is still alive, or if someone like Vyce becomes it, then we're doomed, because... 'cause there's nothing else that we can do. And the same despair that killed ''it'' will kill ''us.'' And I will ''not'' let that happen. If the Entity is alive - or if Vyce becomes it - then I am gonna be the one to shove a sword through it's its face, just so I can get up close enough to scream in their ear that '''''WE! ARE! IMPORTANT!''''' Every one of us is important! Every one of us is important. And I'll do whatever I have to to save us all.



->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes ''[[Main/WhatTheHellHero have]]'' [[Main/WhatTheHellHero done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others.]] And, while it’s stil shaking it’s finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.

to:

->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes ''[[Main/WhatTheHellHero have]]'' [[Main/WhatTheHellHero done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others.]] And, while it’s stil shaking it’s its finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.

Changed: 1423

Removed: 1418

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->'''Linkara:''' The ''[[ComicBook/AllStarDCComics All-Star]]'' line was meant to be an entry point to new fans, similar to the [[ComicBook/UltimateMarvel Ultimate]] line of books, by creating iconic, definitive stories for heroes with top-tier talent working on them. However, only ''ComicBook/AllStarSuperman'' and ''All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder'' were ever released. While ''All-Star Superman'' has its flaws, it is recognized as a massive success in how it showed the best parts of Superman: his kindness, decency, and [[TheCape everything about the character that made him so beloved an icon]]. It was ''so'' critically lauded that it got an [[WesternAnimation/AllStarSuperman animated straight-to-DVD adaptation]] written by the late, great Creator/DwayneMcDuffie. Conversely, ''All-Star Batman & Robin'' feels like a sick joke, a parody at best of the characters, lacking any of the elements that made Batman such an enduring character.

->Critique him for [[SlidingScaleOfRealisticVsFantastic realism]], or [[HisOwnWorstEnemy how his mission is ultimately self-defeating]], or [[ReedRichardsIsUseless how he could be more constructive if he used his money in other ways]] (which he does, but nevermind that), but I see Batman as a figure ultimately of [[MiseryBuildsCharacter how one can rise above tragedy to do good in the world and improve yourself]]. He is brusque, yes, [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold but not heartless]]; [[GoodIsNotNice aggressive, but not unethical]]. [[WellIntentionedExtremist He drives himself to the extremes that he does]], [[HurtingHero sacrifices himself and his happiness at times]] for one goal: so that no other eight-year-old child will ever have to go through what he did. Sometimes, he goes too far and sometimes he makes mistakes, but that's because [[HumansAreFlawed he's not a god, nor should he be. He is human]]. If Superman represents the [[HopeBringer hope]] and [[AllLovingHero compassion]] that humanity is capable of, Batman represents the [[{{Determinator}} determination]] and [[BadassBookworm intellect]] that we are also capable of. Superman's [[ArchEnemy worst foe]] is ComicBook/LexLuthor, [[CorruptCorporateExecutive a wealthy genius who uses his power for evil]], but Superman's [[HeterosexualLifePartners best friend]] is Batman, [[HonestCorporateExecutive a wealthy genius who uses his power for good]].\\\

to:

->'''Linkara:''' The ''[[ComicBook/AllStarDCComics All-Star]]'' line was meant to be an entry point to new fans, similar to the [[ComicBook/UltimateMarvel Ultimate]] line of books, by creating iconic, definitive stories for heroes with top-tier talent working on them. However, only ''ComicBook/AllStarSuperman'' and ''All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder'' were ever released. While ''All-Star Superman'' has its flaws, it is recognized as a massive success in how it showed the best parts of Superman: his kindness, decency, and [[TheCape everything about the character that made him so beloved an icon]]. It was ''so'' critically lauded that it got an [[WesternAnimation/AllStarSuperman animated straight-to-DVD adaptation]] written by the late, great Creator/DwayneMcDuffie. Conversely, ''All-Star Batman & Robin'' feels like a sick joke, a parody at best of the characters, lacking any of the elements that made Batman such an enduring character.

->Critique
character.\\\
Critique
him for [[SlidingScaleOfRealisticVsFantastic [[SlidingScaleOfRealisticVersusFantastic realism]], or [[HisOwnWorstEnemy how his mission is ultimately self-defeating]], or [[ReedRichardsIsUseless how he could be more constructive if he used his money in other ways]] (which he does, but nevermind that), but I see Batman as a figure ultimately of [[MiseryBuildsCharacter how one can rise above tragedy to do good in the world and improve yourself]]. He is brusque, yes, [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold but not heartless]]; [[GoodIsNotNice aggressive, but not unethical]]. [[WellIntentionedExtremist He drives himself to the extremes that he does]], [[HurtingHero sacrifices himself and his happiness at times]] for one goal: so that no other eight-year-old child will ever have to go through what he did. Sometimes, he goes too far and sometimes he makes mistakes, but that's because [[HumansAreFlawed he's not a god, nor should he be. He is human]]. If Superman represents the [[HopeBringer hope]] and [[AllLovingHero compassion]] that humanity is capable of, Batman represents the [[{{Determinator}} determination]] and [[BadassBookworm intellect]] that we are also capable of. Superman's [[ArchEnemy worst foe]] is ComicBook/LexLuthor, [[CorruptCorporateExecutive a wealthy genius who uses his power for evil]], but Superman's [[HeterosexualLifePartners best friend]] is Batman, [[HonestCorporateExecutive a wealthy genius who uses his power for good]].\\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

->'''Linkara:''' The ''[[ComicBook/AllStarDCComics All-Star]]'' line was meant to be an entry point to new fans, similar to the [[ComicBook/UltimateMarvel Ultimate]] line of books, by creating iconic, definitive stories for heroes with top-tier talent working on them. However, only ''ComicBook/AllStarSuperman'' and ''All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder'' were ever released. While ''All-Star Superman'' has its flaws, it is recognized as a massive success in how it showed the best parts of Superman: his kindness, decency, and [[TheCape everything about the character that made him so beloved an icon]]. It was ''so'' critically lauded that it got an [[WesternAnimation/AllStarSuperman animated straight-to-DVD adaptation]] written by the late, great Creator/DwayneMcDuffie. Conversely, ''All-Star Batman & Robin'' feels like a sick joke, a parody at best of the characters, lacking any of the elements that made Batman such an enduring character.

->Critique him for [[SlidingScaleOfRealisticVsFantastic realism]], or [[HisOwnWorstEnemy how his mission is ultimately self-defeating]], or [[ReedRichardsIsUseless how he could be more constructive if he used his money in other ways]] (which he does, but nevermind that), but I see Batman as a figure ultimately of [[MiseryBuildsCharacter how one can rise above tragedy to do good in the world and improve yourself]]. He is brusque, yes, [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold but not heartless]]; [[GoodIsNotNice aggressive, but not unethical]]. [[WellIntentionedExtremist He drives himself to the extremes that he does]], [[HurtingHero sacrifices himself and his happiness at times]] for one goal: so that no other eight-year-old child will ever have to go through what he did. Sometimes, he goes too far and sometimes he makes mistakes, but that's because [[HumansAreFlawed he's not a god, nor should he be. He is human]]. If Superman represents the [[HopeBringer hope]] and [[AllLovingHero compassion]] that humanity is capable of, Batman represents the [[{{Determinator}} determination]] and [[BadassBookworm intellect]] that we are also capable of. Superman's [[ArchEnemy worst foe]] is ComicBook/LexLuthor, [[CorruptCorporateExecutive a wealthy genius who uses his power for evil]], but Superman's [[HeterosexualLifePartners best friend]] is Batman, [[HonestCorporateExecutive a wealthy genius who uses his power for good]].\\\
[[DesignatedHero The Batman of this story]], however, is not ''any'' of those things. He is [[BloodKnight violent]], judgmental, [[{{Manchild}} immature]], [[ManipulativeBastard manipulative]], [[ItsAllAboutMe self-important]], and most disgusting of all, cruel. [[KickTheDog He is cruel to the people who love him]], equally cruel to [[AssholeVictim those he fights against]], and he is cruel to the one person he should know better than to be cruel to: [[MirrorCharacter a young boy who lost his parents like he did]].\\\
I finally figured out why we have [[HeroAntagonist all those other superheroes]] in this when this should just straight-up be about Batman, and the answer is: because it ''is'' still about Batman! These other heroes are supposed to be here [[{{Foil}} to be compared to Batman]]. In this universe, [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality if you don't follow Batman, obey his rules and his methods, you are ineffectual, naive, foolish, unprepared, or driven for the wrong reasons]], and as I said back in the review of issue 8, this Batman is [[{{Allegory}} reflective]] of [[Creator/FrankMiller Frank Miller's]] own ideologies; thus the only way he can prop up his viewpoints, [[MightMakesRight his terrible ideas of what makes a hero]], is to make other heroes, other ideologies, look bad by comparison.
-->-- '''All-Star Batman and Robin #10'''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->The man has never met a retcon he didn’t like. He likes to pretend plot points happen a certain way because it suits the story he wants to tell. Conner Kent is a perfect example of this. Geoff Johns is the one who introduces the retcon that Conner was also a clone of Lex Luthor because it served the story he wanted to tell. He is guilty of the exact same toxic nostalgia, wanting to recreate a world from his past by sacrificing the past of everybody else. And sometimes that world was better. [[ComicBook/GreenLantern Hal Jordan’s]] [[ComicBook/EmeraldTwilight turn]] [[Main/FallenHero to evil]] was a bad, bad idea and fixing that was the right call. The difference between Superboy-Prime and Geoff Johns is that Geoff Johns is capable of fixing those mistakes while not sacrificing everything else that went along the way. Bear in mind, when he brought back Hal Jordan he didn’t kill Kyle Rayner just because “Well, you gotta clear the way for Hal”. It’s more about repairing the future rather than changing the past . Sure, he stills screws it up on occasion (Prime himself is the best example of that). But he’s usually intent on serving the larger picture. Superboy-Prime, however, is trapped in this sense of entitlement: [[Main/ItsAllAboutMe ''his'' reality, ''his'' sacrifice is the only thing that matters to him. He feels he deserves it all and doesn’t care who he has to hurt to get it back]]; and, despite his constant proclamations, it’s because he’s not Superman. Superman is a promise to serve the world, all of humanity; hell, all of life itself. He puts the world before himself because that is the man he’s grown to be.

->Superboy-Prime, though… well, he’s a teenager who suddenly got superpowers, lost his entire planet, got shoved into a glass prison with two old people and a weird, creepy guy who was technically only a few days old, and hr gets to watch everybody else on Earth getting the happy ending he thinks he was supposed to get. Dude’s got issues.

->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes [[Main/WhatTheHellHero ''have'' done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others]]. And, while it’s stil shaking it’s finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.

to:

->The man has never met a retcon he didn’t like. He likes to pretend plot points happen a certain way because it suits the story he wants to tell. Conner Kent is a perfect example of this. Geoff Johns is the one who introduces the retcon that Conner was also a clone of Lex Luthor because it served the story he wanted to tell. He is guilty of the exact same toxic nostalgia, wanting to recreate a world from his past by sacrificing the past of everybody else. And sometimes that world was better. [[ComicBook/GreenLantern Hal Jordan’s]] [[ComicBook/EmeraldTwilight turn]] [[Main/FallenHero to evil]] was a bad, bad idea and fixing that was the right call. The difference between Superboy-Prime and Geoff Johns is that Geoff Johns is capable of fixing those mistakes while not sacrificing everything else that went along the way. Bear in mind, when he brought back Hal Jordan he didn’t kill Kyle Rayner just because “Well, you gotta clear the way for Hal”. It’s more about repairing the future rather than changing the past . Sure, he stills screws it up on occasion (Prime himself is the best example of that). But he’s usually intent on serving the larger picture. Superboy-Prime, however, is trapped in this sense of entitlement: ''[[Main/ItsAllAboutMe his]]'' [[Main/ItsAllAboutMe ''his'' reality, ''his'' reality,]] ''[[Main/ItsAllAboutMe his]]'' [[Main/ItsAllAboutMe sacrifice is the only thing that matters to him. He feels he deserves it all and doesn’t care who he has to hurt to get it back]]; and, despite his constant proclamations, it’s because he’s not Superman. Superman is a promise to serve the world, all of humanity; hell, all of life itself. He puts the world before himself because that is the man he’s grown to be.

->Superboy-Prime, though… well, he’s a teenager who suddenly got superpowers, lost his entire planet, got shoved into a glass prison with two old people and a weird, creepy guy who was technically only a few days old, and hr he gets to watch everybody else on Earth getting the happy ending he thinks he was supposed to get. [[Main/CosmicPlaything Dude’s got issues.

issues]].

->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes ''[[Main/WhatTheHellHero have]]'' [[Main/WhatTheHellHero ''have'' done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others]]. others.]] And, while it’s stil shaking it’s finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes [Main/WhatTheHellHero ''have'' done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others]]. And, while it’s stil shaking it’s finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.

to:

->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes [Main/WhatTheHellHero [[Main/WhatTheHellHero ''have'' done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others]]. And, while it’s stil shaking it’s finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->The man has never met a retcon he didn’t like. He likes to pretend plot points happen a certain way because it suits the story he wants to tell. Conner Kent is a perfect example of this. Geoff Johns is the one who introduces the retcon that Conner was also a clone of Lex Luthor because it served the story he wanted to tell. He is guilty of the exact same toxic nostalgia, wanting to recreate a world from his past by sacrificing the past of everybody else. And sometimes that world was better. [[ComicBook/GreenLantern Hal Jordan’s]] [[ComicBook/EmeraldTwilight turn]] [[Main/FallenHero to evil]] was a bad, bad idea and fixing that was the right call. The difference between Superboy-Prime and Geoff Johns is that Geoff Johns is capable of fixing those mistakes while not sacrificing everything else that went along the way. Bear in mind, when he brought back Hal Jordan he didn’t kill Kyle Rayner just because “Well, you gotta clear the way for Hal”. It’s more about repairing the future rather than changing the past . Sure, he stills screws it up on occasion (Prime himself is the best example of that). But he’s usually intent on serving the larger picture. Superboy-Prime, however, is trapped in this sense of entitlement: ''his'' reality, ''his'' sacrifice is the only thing that matters to him. He feels he deserves it all and doesn’t care who he has to hurt to get it back; and, despite his constant proclamations, it’s because he’s not Superman. Superman is a promise to serve the world, all of humanity; hell, all of life itself. He puts the world before himself because that is the man he’s grown to be.

to:

->The man has never met a retcon he didn’t like. He likes to pretend plot points happen a certain way because it suits the story he wants to tell. Conner Kent is a perfect example of this. Geoff Johns is the one who introduces the retcon that Conner was also a clone of Lex Luthor because it served the story he wanted to tell. He is guilty of the exact same toxic nostalgia, wanting to recreate a world from his past by sacrificing the past of everybody else. And sometimes that world was better. [[ComicBook/GreenLantern Hal Jordan’s]] [[ComicBook/EmeraldTwilight turn]] [[Main/FallenHero to evil]] was a bad, bad idea and fixing that was the right call. The difference between Superboy-Prime and Geoff Johns is that Geoff Johns is capable of fixing those mistakes while not sacrificing everything else that went along the way. Bear in mind, when he brought back Hal Jordan he didn’t kill Kyle Rayner just because “Well, you gotta clear the way for Hal”. It’s more about repairing the future rather than changing the past . Sure, he stills screws it up on occasion (Prime himself is the best example of that). But he’s usually intent on serving the larger picture. Superboy-Prime, however, is trapped in this sense of entitlement: [[Main/ItsAllAboutMe ''his'' reality, ''his'' sacrifice is the only thing that matters to him. He feels he deserves it all and doesn’t care who he has to hurt to get it back; back]]; and, despite his constant proclamations, it’s because he’s not Superman. Superman is a promise to serve the world, all of humanity; hell, all of life itself. He puts the world before himself because that is the man he’s grown to be.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->The man has never met a retcon he didn’t like. He likes to pretend plot points happen a certain way because it suits the story he wants to tell. Conner Kent is a perfect example of this. Geoff Johns is the one who introduces the retcon that Conner was also a clone of Lex Luthor because it served the story he wanted to tell. He is guilty of the exact same toxic nostalgia, wanting to recreate a world from his past by sacrificing the past of everybody else. And sometimes that world was better. [[ComicBook/GreenLantern Hal Jordan’s]] [[ComicBook/ZeroHourCrisisInTime turn]] [[Main/FallenHero to evil]] was a bad, bad idea and fixing that was the right call. The difference between Superboy-Prime and Geoff Johns is that Geoff Johns is capable of fixing those mistakes while not sacrificing everything else that went along the way. Bear in mind, when he brought back Hal Jordan he didn’t kill Kyle Rayner just because “Well, you gotta clear the way for Hal”. It’s more about repairing the future rather than changing the past . Sure, he stills screws it up on occasion (Prime himself is the best example of that). But he’s usually intent on serving the larger picture. Superboy-Prime, however, is trapped in this sense of entitlement: ''his'' reality, ''his'' sacrifice is the only thing that matters to him. He feels he deserves it all and doesn’t care who he has to hurt to get it back; and, despite his constant proclamations, it’s because he’s not Superman. Superman is a promise to serve the world, all of humanity; hell, all of life itself. He puts the world before himself because that is the man he’s grown to be.

to:

->The man has never met a retcon he didn’t like. He likes to pretend plot points happen a certain way because it suits the story he wants to tell. Conner Kent is a perfect example of this. Geoff Johns is the one who introduces the retcon that Conner was also a clone of Lex Luthor because it served the story he wanted to tell. He is guilty of the exact same toxic nostalgia, wanting to recreate a world from his past by sacrificing the past of everybody else. And sometimes that world was better. [[ComicBook/GreenLantern Hal Jordan’s]] [[ComicBook/ZeroHourCrisisInTime [[ComicBook/EmeraldTwilight turn]] [[Main/FallenHero to evil]] was a bad, bad idea and fixing that was the right call. The difference between Superboy-Prime and Geoff Johns is that Geoff Johns is capable of fixing those mistakes while not sacrificing everything else that went along the way. Bear in mind, when he brought back Hal Jordan he didn’t kill Kyle Rayner just because “Well, you gotta clear the way for Hal”. It’s more about repairing the future rather than changing the past . Sure, he stills screws it up on occasion (Prime himself is the best example of that). But he’s usually intent on serving the larger picture. Superboy-Prime, however, is trapped in this sense of entitlement: ''his'' reality, ''his'' sacrifice is the only thing that matters to him. He feels he deserves it all and doesn’t care who he has to hurt to get it back; and, despite his constant proclamations, it’s because he’s not Superman. Superman is a promise to serve the world, all of humanity; hell, all of life itself. He puts the world before himself because that is the man he’s grown to be.



->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes ''have'' done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others. And, while it’s stil shaking it’s finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.

to:

->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes [Main/WhatTheHellHero ''have'' done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others.others]]. And, while it’s stil shaking it’s finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->Superboy-Prime, though… well, he’s a teenager who suddenly got superpowers, lost his entire planet, got shoved into a glass prison with two old people and a weird, creepy guy who was technically only a few days old, and gets to watch everybody else on Earth getting the happy ending he thinks he was supposed to get. The dude’s got issues.

to:

->Superboy-Prime, though… well, he’s a teenager who suddenly got superpowers, lost his entire planet, got shoved into a glass prison with two old people and a weird, creepy guy who was technically only a few days old, and hr gets to watch everybody else on Earth getting the happy ending he thinks he was supposed to get. The dude’s Dude’s got issues.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

->So… yeah. Let’s talk about this event for a moment and what it’s really about beyond just a sequel to [[ComicBook/CrisisonInfiniteEarths Crisis on Infinite Earths]].

->Nostalgia can be toxic. Now bear in mind I did not say that it ''is'' toxic, but that it ''can'' be toxic. This assumption that because we have pleasant memories of something, that it was always good all the time. A desire to get that back ignores all the good that’s come since then as well as all the bad stuff that was there too, and it poisons you, making you more susceptible to deception, to your own greed. Who’s to say that your own past is more important than someone else’s future? And because you want something that may not have been real at all the farther the goalposts gets, because you can’t really reclaim it, so it just gets worse and worse. And you get greedier and more desperate for it because what you really want is never going to come; until, in the very end, you become the thing you hated in the first place. You become more concerned with chasing some imaginary feeling that you forget where you are and that you can create real attainable goals right now. To this mindset the past is more important than the future.

->The Earth-2 Superman thinks that he can reclaim everything by bringing back something from his past. Superboy-Prime exemplifies this most of all, and in issue #4 his character works because it’s an actual tragedy. Someone who thinks he’s reclaiming something that’s his when, of course, it isn’t his. He’s too fixated on this ideal version of the world that he can’t believe that anything else is possible.

->The reason I mock Superboy-Prime and other works is because he stopped being this cautionary tale and instead became a farce. A method for the writers -- Creator/GeoffJohns in particular -- to complain about angry fans who didn’t like his work. “Oh, they don’t like change. They only want something from ''their'' past”. But, as I said before, Geoff Johns is guilty of this too.

->The man has never met a retcon he didn’t like. He likes to pretend plot points happen a certain way because it suits the story he wants to tell. Conner Kent is a perfect example of this. Geoff Johns is the one who introduces the retcon that Conner was also a clone of Lex Luthor because it served the story he wanted to tell. He is guilty of the exact same toxic nostalgia, wanting to recreate a world from his past by sacrificing the past of everybody else. And sometimes that world was better. [[ComicBook/GreenLantern Hal Jordan’s]] [[ComicBook/ZeroHourCrisisInTime turn]] [[Main/FallenHero to evil]] was a bad, bad idea and fixing that was the right call. The difference between Superboy-Prime and Geoff Johns is that Geoff Johns is capable of fixing those mistakes while not sacrificing everything else that went along the way. Bear in mind, when he brought back Hal Jordan he didn’t kill Kyle Rayner just because “Well, you gotta clear the way for Hal”. It’s more about repairing the future rather than changing the past . Sure, he stills screws it up on occasion (Prime himself is the best example of that). But he’s usually intent on serving the larger picture. Superboy-Prime, however, is trapped in this sense of entitlement: ''his'' reality, ''his'' sacrifice is the only thing that matters to him. He feels he deserves it all and doesn’t care who he has to hurt to get it back; and, despite his constant proclamations, it’s because he’s not Superman. Superman is a promise to serve the world, all of humanity; hell, all of life itself. He puts the world before himself because that is the man he’s grown to be.

->Superboy-Prime, though… well, he’s a teenager who suddenly got superpowers, lost his entire planet, got shoved into a glass prison with two old people and a weird, creepy guy who was technically only a few days old, and gets to watch everybody else on Earth getting the happy ending he thinks he was supposed to get. The dude’s got issues.

->Infinite Crisis is trying to be critical of this mindset but it also has no answer to the rightful criticisms that mindset lobbed at the DC Universe. It ''has'' gotten too dark. The heroes ''have'' done morally questionable things that have ended up hurting themselves and others. And, while it’s stil shaking it’s finger at all that, it revels in those same elements: Excessive violence, death, the heroes failing. All of it is personified in a teenager bawling his eyes out while literally ripping people apart and screaming “YOU’RE RUINING EVERYTHING!”.

-->-- '''Infinite Crisis Review Part 2'''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


LINKARA! (Atop the Fourth Wall) Ghosts, gods, a universe influx!\\

to:

LINKARA! (Atop the Fourth Wall) Ghosts, gods, a universe influx!\\in flux!\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-> Welcome to ''Atop the Fourth Wall'', where bad comics burn.\\

to:

-> Welcome to ''Atop ''Welcome to'' Atop the Fourth Wall'', where Wall, ''where bad comics burn.\\



LINKARA!

to:

LINKARA!LINKARA!''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->--'''Linkara''' calling out [[InternetJerk certain people online]] who attack creators of things they dislike, ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis''

to:

-->--'''Linkara''' calling out [[InternetJerk certain people online]] who attack creators of things they dislike, ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis''''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis''

-> Welcome to ''Atop the Fourth Wall'', where bad comics burn.\\
Linkara’s gonna teach you all a lesson you won’t learn.\\
What’s with these awkward subjects?\\
Why’s all this art so rubbish?]\\
To anyone who’s had a bad comic published, it could be your turn.\\
LINKARA! HE IS A MAN! *PUNCH*! Wears a purdy hat!\\
LINKARA! He has a magic gun…where’d he purchase that?\\
LINKARA! Cows, muscles, some trope he deconstructs!\\
LINKARA! This! Comic! SUCKS!\\
Linkara sits down nonetheless, and forces himself through it.\\
A poorly-written, ugly mess, but someone’s gotta do it.\\
It may look like this time he’s screwed,\\
And you might just find him in a fiery mood,\\
And if it may seem a bit extreme,\\
That’s fine in the eyes of the 90s Dude.\\
Setting ablaze crossovers, one-shots, and tie-ins,\\
Linkara stands in reality defiance\\
Atop the fourth wall, looking down on us all.\\
“Of course! Don’t you know anything about science?”\\
There would be better books on his show,\\
But Quesada sold them to Mephisto\\
And now there’s nothing left to do,\\
But share the scrapings at the bottom of the barrel with you.\\
LINKARA! (Atop the Fourth Wall) HE IS A MAN *PUNCH*! Sporadically a grouch!\\
LINKARA! (Atop the Fourth Wall) He has his own spaceship, but he’s always on his couch.\\
LINKARA! (Atop the Fourth Wall) Ghosts, gods, a universe influx!\\
LINKARA! (Atop the Fourth Wall) This! Comic! SUCKS!\\
LINKARA!
-->-- '''Vincent E.L.''' Gunslinger Theme, new version (first played in Episode 600, becomes permanent following the start of 2021)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Disambiguating; deleting and renaming wicks as appropriate


-->--'''Linkara''' calling out [[{{GIFT}} certain people online]] who attack creators of things they dislike, ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis''

to:

-->--'''Linkara''' calling out [[{{GIFT}} [[InternetJerk certain people online]] who attack creators of things they dislike, ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Linkara! WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall!\\

to:

Linkara! WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall!\\WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Doug Moench, he's not the brightest\\

to:

Doug Moench, Creator/DougMoench, he's not the brightest\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Don't pothole in quotes.


->'''Linkara (voiceover):''' [[HellIsThatNoise There is a sound in my nightmares.]] It is a hiss, a screeching of notes that [[{{Grimmification}} comes from a game that I played as a child.]] It is shrill and high-pitched, grating on your soul like nails upon a chalkboard. This was not the sound of any natural creature. This is an [[EldritchAbomination abomination]]; a [[AddedAlliterativeAppeal perversion of the programmed perfection]] of the world. In other times and other places and in my book, they called it 'The Lost Beast'; but to me, it shall always have a different name...

to:

->'''Linkara (voiceover):''' [[HellIsThatNoise There is a sound in my nightmares.]] nightmares. It is a hiss, a screeching of notes that [[{{Grimmification}} comes from a game that I played as a child.]] child. It is shrill and high-pitched, grating on your soul like nails upon a chalkboard. This was not the sound of any natural creature. This is an [[EldritchAbomination abomination]]; abomination; a [[AddedAlliterativeAppeal perversion of the programmed perfection]] perfection of the world. In other times and other places and in my book, they called it 'The Lost Beast'; but to me, it shall always have a different name...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

Quotes from ''WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall''.
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
unnecessary wick to main page


[[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]]'s gonna teach you all a lesson you won't learn.\\

to:

[[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]]'s Linkara's gonna teach you all a lesson you won't learn.\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Linkara's gonna teach you all a lesson you won't learn.\\

to:

Linkara's [[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]]'s gonna teach you all a lesson you won't learn.\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->--'''Linkara''' explaining why ''ComicBook/SecretEmpire'' fails at being a serious depiction or condemnation of fascism

to:

-->--'''Linkara''' explaining why ''ComicBook/SecretEmpire'' fails at being a serious depiction or condemnation of fascismfascism

->And I hate that I still have to say this after all this time, but while I am critical, while I am disparaging this work, and it deserves to be disparaged... ''for the love of God, DO NOT [[XPacHeat ATTACK THE CREATORS]]! DO NOT SEND DEATH THREATS!'' It's a bad story, and we should criticize a bad story, [[HeWhoFightsMonsters but don't become a goddamn super villain yourself]]! [[DisproportionateRetribution Tom King got death threats over this]], and ''that'' is ''so much worse'' than a bad story!
-->--'''Linkara''' calling out [[{{GIFT}} certain people online]] who attack creators of things they dislike, ''ComicBook/HeroesInCrisis''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->"It's easy to look at the terrible things happening at any given point in history and see all the examples of greed, corruption and evil... But it's also easy to overlook the compassion. The decency. To see people being nice and good and wonderful! That's my "{{Deconstruction}}" of superheroes. [[YouAreBetterThanYouThinkYouAre People can be,]] [[HumansAreGood and are, kind]]. So why wouldn't someone with incredible abilities be kind too?"
-->—'''Linkara''' discussing ComicBook/WhatsSoFunnyAboutTruthJusticeAndTheAmericanWay

to:

->"It's ->It's easy to look at the terrible things happening at any given point in history and see all the examples of greed, corruption and evil... But it's also easy to overlook the compassion. The decency. To see people being nice and good and wonderful! That's my "{{Deconstruction}}" of superheroes. [[YouAreBetterThanYouThinkYouAre People can be,]] [[HumansAreGood and are, kind]]. So why wouldn't someone with incredible abilities be kind too?"
too?"
-->—'''Linkara''' discussing ComicBook/WhatsSoFunnyAboutTruthJusticeAndTheAmericanWay
Superhero {{Deconstruction}} stories in his ''ComicBook/WhatsSoFunnyAboutTruthJusticeAndTheAmericanWay'' review.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

->"It's easy to look at the terrible things happening at any given point in history and see all the examples of greed, corruption and evil... But it's also easy to overlook the compassion. The decency. To see people being nice and good and wonderful! That's my "{{Deconstruction}}" of superheroes. [[YouAreBetterThanYouThinkYouAre People can be,]] [[HumansAreGood and are, kind]]. So why wouldn't someone with incredible abilities be kind too?"
-->—'''Linkara''' discussing ComicBook/WhatsSoFunnyAboutTruthJusticeAndTheAmericanWay
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->--'''Linkara''' explaining why ComicBook/EvilEmpire'' fails at being a serious depiction or condemnation of fascism

to:

-->--'''Linkara''' explaining why ComicBook/EvilEmpire'' ''ComicBook/SecretEmpire'' fails at being a serious depiction or condemnation of fascism

Added: 4515

Changed: -4

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->—'''Linkara''' explaining the difference between [[ComicBook/OneMoreDay Peter Parker's]] and [[ComicBook/Champions2019 Miles Morales's]] respective deals with Mephisto, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRzYeMnR-bA "The Champions, vol. 3 #1-4: Beat the Devil"]]

to:

-->—'''Linkara''' explaining the difference between [[ComicBook/OneMoreDay Peter Parker's]] and [[ComicBook/Champions2019 Miles Morales's]] respective deals with Mephisto, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRzYeMnR-bA "The Champions, vol. 3 #1-4: Beat the Devil"]]Devil"]]

-> Here’s what I’ve been leading up to this entire time with my frustrations with this book: [[CluelessAesop it does not understand fascism]]. It thinks it does, and it seems to be leaning in the direction of it — what with this whole “they think they’re strong” thing — but unfortunately, the comic has kind of spent its entire length reinforcing the lie.

-> See, [HYDRA-Cap] was still only able to lift the hammer because of “strength.” It kind of bought into [[MightMakesRight the greatest lie that fascists ever told: that it is strong. That it is orderly. That it is might and power and deference to might and power]]. For the longest time, the popular belief about Nazi Germany was that it was an efficient war machine that took a broken people and almost conquered the world. [[FascistButInefficient The truth is, the methods they used were inefficient, corrupt, and ultimately self-defeating]]. [[MilesGloriosus They cared more about propaganda and pushing out an image of fortitude than actually doing anything that would truly help themselves]]. [[RabbleRouser They used scapegoats, bigotry, anything they could to try to get people on board with the programs, even while they suffered under them]].

-> And yet, at every turn, [[DoNotDoThisCoolThing the comic keeps trying to make HYDRA look like some unstoppable juggernaut: utilizing seemingly cool iconography]]; [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans improvements on the world like advancing science, and better test scores, and more jobs]]; and sure, the concentration camps and restrictions on free speech and stuff are ''mentioned'', but more like [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide glanced over and ignored]], especially since we got our "benevolent leader" Steve Rogers who ''just wants to help''.

-> [[DirtyCoward Fascism is cowardly]]. [[ItsAllAboutMe It is selfish. It is self-serving. It is corrupt and greedy]]. [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic The writing keeps trying to make HYDRA-Cap sympathetic, like he’s just regular old Steve Rogers, but bending the rules a bit]] — and thanks to both the Punisher’s talk and the Omega issue, it’s revealed he totally planned to just restore everyone who had been killed in all this to life; not even the “rebooting the universe” thing of Hal Jordan; just undo all the damage and everything would be hunky dory! He’s ''so tortured'' by all the ''terrible things'' he had to do or let others do. ''[[WellIntentionedExtremist He just wants to make the world better! Is that so wrong?]]''

-> [[NoJustNoReaction Yeah, no]]. [[DystopiaJustifiesTheMeans Fascism is not kind. It is not decent. It does not care about the individual, because the individual is subservient to the state, and in particular, whoever runs that state]]. It is not compatible with Steve Rogers.

-> [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Fascism does not fight for “the greater good.”]] It fights for the exultation of the inhuman, the commemoration of cruelty, and [[AbsoluteXenophobe the hatred of the different]]. [[EvilWillFail Fascism is a loser ideology]]. [[TheThemeParkVersion This story thinks that fascism is just a generic dictatorship]], and that’s especially why it doesn’t feel as relevant as Marvel and Nick Spencer wanted it to feel. There’s no mention of how many become fascists nowadays: the radicalism, preying on the downtrodden, and using them as scapegoats, [[JustJokingJustification giving would-be fascists a taste for it by being “edgy”]] and [[BourgeoisBumpkin bucking against a system that wants understanding and empathy, but they claim is just a “nanny state” or “policing your behavior.”]] It doesn’t show how that transitions into [[FeelingOppressedByTheirExistence starting to hate others for simply being alive]], how it takes advantage of their selfishness, [[BecomingTheMask turning irony into outright bigotry]]. It doesn’t show the tactics wherein [[PoliteVillainsRudeHeroes they try to come across as the “civil,” “reasonable” ones, when really they’re just trying to get a platform to spread their gospel]]. It doesn’t show [[OpportunisticBastard the boot-lickers, the ones who are happily ready to sell out their fellows because they smell power and opportunity]]. The ones who do so in the book? Just the misguided, the blackmailed, or the mind-controlled. It doesn’t show that it’s not really about trying to make the world better; someone changing from insecurity to cruelty, and the cruelty is the point.
-->--'''Linkara''' explaining why ComicBook/EvilEmpire'' fails at being a serious depiction or condemnation of fascism
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->[[WritersSuck Rob Liefeld can't write!]] [[OffModel Rob Liefeld can't draw!]] Rob Liefeld can't create! And don't go telling me about how he created SelfDemonstrating/{{Deadpool}} and {{Comicbook/Cable}}! One--he didn't create Deadpool! [[EarlyInstallmentWeirdness He created some boring-ass mercenary who spoke in yellow-colored speech bubbles!]] [[MyRealDaddy Nobody would give a damn about him if not for the work of everybody else but him!]] And as for Cable, most of my knowledge of the character comes from [[WesternAnimation/XMen the animated series]], but even if Cable really is all that awesome and iconic a character, well, congratulations. [[OverlyNarrowSuperlative You have found one, all of one character that Rob Liefeld created that's actually good]], except a good creator is capable of making more than just one good character! Liefeld, on the other hand, settles on inventing 60,000 characters, and none of them are good!

to:

->[[WritersSuck Rob Liefeld can't write!]] [[OffModel Rob Liefeld can't draw!]] Rob Liefeld can't create! And don't go telling me about how he created SelfDemonstrating/{{Deadpool}} ComicBook/{{Deadpool}} and {{Comicbook/Cable}}! One--he didn't create Deadpool! [[EarlyInstallmentWeirdness He created some boring-ass mercenary who spoke in yellow-colored speech bubbles!]] [[MyRealDaddy Nobody would give a damn about him if not for the work of everybody else but him!]] And as for Cable, most of my knowledge of the character comes from [[WesternAnimation/XMen the animated series]], but even if Cable really is all that awesome and iconic a character, well, congratulations. [[OverlyNarrowSuperlative You have found one, all of one character that Rob Liefeld created that's actually good]], except a good creator is capable of making more than just one good character! Liefeld, on the other hand, settles on inventing 60,000 characters, and none of them are good!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


LINKARA! (Atop The Fourth Wall) HE IS A MAN! *PUNCH*! What's that on his arm?\\
LINKARA! (Atop The Fourth Wall) Can't seem to fix the Continuity Alarm.\\
LINKARA! (Atop The Fourth Wall) Rock and roll, [[WebVideo/TheSpoonyExperiment Insano]], some feller in a tux.\\
LINKARA! (Atop The Fourth Wall) This! Comic! SUCKS!\\

to:

LINKARA! (Atop The the Fourth Wall) HE IS A MAN! *PUNCH*! What's that on his arm?\\
LINKARA! (Atop The the Fourth Wall) Can't seem to fix the Continuity Alarm.\\
LINKARA! (Atop The the Fourth Wall) Rock and roll, [[WebVideo/TheSpoonyExperiment Insano]], some feller in a tux.\\
LINKARA! (Atop The the Fourth Wall) This! Comic! SUCKS!\\

Top