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* From ''VideoGame/SonicAdventure2'' onward, some have interpreted Eggman's admiration for his late grandfather Gerald as the core reason why he decided to TakeOverTheWorld-- the idea being that Eggman wants to avenge Gerald's legacy and retaliate towards humanity for betraying and executing him despite how much Gerald did for them, and him [[BrokenPedestal losing respect for his grandfather]] once learning that [[spoiler:he posthumously attempted to ''destroy'' the world after going insane]] has also led some to even believe that [[DracoInLeatherPants he truly has some good in his evil heart deep down.]] However, the game also has him mostly be interested in his grandfather's ''work'' and the potential to use it for ''his'' own purposes, has him repeatedly preach about how ''he's'' going to start a legacy of being the world's greatest mind and ruler of all time without any reference to Gerald, typically references Gerald as his grandfather whenever it feeds ''his'' ego, and it's most likely that his admiration for Gerald is exclusively regarding his prowess ''as a fellow genius scientist'' as opposed to anything humanitarian or familial (as Eggman would probably be aware that a Gerald of sound mind would ''not'' approve of what he does to further his goals), with his own [[PragmaticVillainy pragmatism]] or [[EvilVersusOblivion logic]] likely being why he lost respect for his grandfather. For most of the franchise's history before ''and'' after this game, it's all but stated that his main reason for wanting to rule the world [[DespotismJustifiesTheMeans no matter what happens to it]] is to [[ItsAllAboutMe continue to feed his ego]] and [[InTheirOwnImage improve it in whatever way he sees fit.]]

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* From ''VideoGame/SonicAdventure2'' onward, some have interpreted Eggman's [[OverarchingVillain Eggman's]] admiration for his late grandfather Gerald as the core reason why he decided to TakeOverTheWorld-- the idea being that Eggman wants to avenge Gerald's legacy and retaliate towards humanity for betraying and executing him despite how much Gerald did for them, and him [[BrokenPedestal losing respect for his grandfather]] once learning that [[spoiler:he posthumously attempted to ''destroy'' the world after going insane]] has also led some to even believe that [[DracoInLeatherPants he truly has some good in his evil heart deep down.]] However, the game also has him mostly be interested in his grandfather's ''work'' and the potential to use it for ''his'' own purposes, has him repeatedly preach about how ''he's'' going to start a legacy of being the world's greatest mind and ruler of all time without any reference to Gerald, typically references Gerald as his grandfather whenever it feeds ''his'' ego, and it's most likely that his admiration for Gerald is exclusively regarding his prowess ''as a fellow genius scientist'' as opposed to anything humanitarian or familial (as Eggman would probably be aware that a Gerald of sound mind would ''not'' approve of what he does to further his goals), with his own [[PragmaticVillainy pragmatism]] or [[EvilVersusOblivion logic]] likely being why he lost respect for his grandfather. For most of the franchise's history before ''and'' after this game, it's all but stated that his main reason for wanting to rule the world [[DespotismJustifiesTheMeans no matter what happens to it]] is to [[ItsAllAboutMe continue to feed his ego]] and [[InTheirOwnImage improve it in whatever way he sees fit.]]
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Seems to have stuck for the YMMV page, so I think it's no problem to add it here, too.

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* From ''VideoGame/SonicAdventure2'' onward, some have interpreted Eggman's admiration for his late grandfather Gerald as the core reason why he decided to TakeOverTheWorld-- the idea being that Eggman wants to avenge Gerald's legacy and retaliate towards humanity for betraying and executing him despite how much Gerald did for them, and him [[BrokenPedestal losing respect for his grandfather]] once learning that [[spoiler:he posthumously attempted to ''destroy'' the world after going insane]] has also led some to even believe that [[DracoInLeatherPants he truly has some good in his evil heart deep down.]] However, the game also has him mostly be interested in his grandfather's ''work'' and the potential to use it for ''his'' own purposes, has him repeatedly preach about how ''he's'' going to start a legacy of being the world's greatest mind and ruler of all time without any reference to Gerald, typically references Gerald as his grandfather whenever it feeds ''his'' ego, and it's most likely that his admiration for Gerald is exclusively regarding his prowess ''as a fellow genius scientist'' as opposed to anything humanitarian or familial (as Eggman would probably be aware that a Gerald of sound mind would ''not'' approve of what he does to further his goals), with his own [[PragmaticVillainy pragmatism]] or [[EvilVersusOblivion logic]] likely being why he lost respect for his grandfather. For most of the franchise's history before ''and'' after this game, it's all but stated that his main reason for wanting to rule the world [[DespotismJustifiesTheMeans no matter what happens to it]] is to [[ItsAllAboutMe continue to feed his ego]] and [[InTheirOwnImage improve it in whatever way he sees fit.]]

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** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'': All of the story routes run on GrayAndGrayMorality, with various plotlines being exclusive to one or more detailed in another, and many revelations are exclusive to one route. Due to this, and the habit of most players to default to one route as being "their GoldenEnding", many fans will take their route's storyline as being the one that explains all of the games story as fact, even when other routes throw suggestions that it is not the case. A person playing the Crimson Flower route for example might see [[spoiler:Rhea as hating all of humanity, behind every single problem in Fodlan and evil, due to Edelgard's biased assertions about her]], missing the nuance of the Silver Snow route and the revelations of the Verdant Wind route, while someone on the other routes will see [[spoiler:Edelgard as an EvilOverlord and the BigBad, causing them to miss her DarkAndTroubledPast and reasons for her actions]]. The routes most guilty of this are the Crimson Flower and the Azure Moon route because they are the ones most opposite with each other, and present many views and revelations that are true, but only FromACertainPointOfView.

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** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'': ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'':
**
All of the story routes run on GrayAndGrayMorality, with various plotlines being exclusive to one or more detailed in another, and many revelations are exclusive to one route. Due to this, and the habit of most players to default to one route as being "their GoldenEnding", many fans will take their route's storyline as being the one that explains all of the games story as fact, even when other routes throw suggestions that it is not the case. A person playing the Crimson Flower route for example might see [[spoiler:Rhea as hating all of humanity, behind every single problem in Fodlan and evil, due to Edelgard's biased assertions about her]], missing the nuance of the Silver Snow route and the revelations of the Verdant Wind route, while someone on the other routes will see [[spoiler:Edelgard as an EvilOverlord and the BigBad, causing them to miss her DarkAndTroubledPast and reasons for her actions]]. The routes most guilty of this are the Crimson Flower and the Azure Moon route because they are the ones most opposite with each other, and present many views and revelations that are true, but only FromACertainPointOfView.FromACertainPointOfView.
** There are parts of the fandom that insist the Church of Seiros is homophobic, for no other reason than it's vague inspiration to the Catholic Church, which is through the eyes of a [[ValuesDissonance Japanese game developer]]. Not only is there nothing to suggest this in-universe, the ''archbishop'' [[spoiler:and ''founder'' of the church itself]] is a [[GayOption bi option]]. Compounding it further, Mercedes, one of the most devout characters in the game is also a bi option. Marianne comes at a close second when it comes to piety, and though she’s not a bi option, she ''does'' have a bit of [[ShipTease subtext]] with her friend Hilda. Even [[TheTease Yuri]] is shown to have some faith and he's flirting with a [[PlayerCharacter Byleth]] of either gender right out of the gate. Hell, the [[spoiler:''Goddess herself'']] is a bi option. In each of these cases the issues of two women or two men getting together in a romantic relationship isn't even considered an issue, just two people coming together. Yet there's a troubling percentage of the fandom insisting the Church is homophobic.
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*** There seem to be a lot of people who don't understand that the civil war plotline is supposed to be a case of GrayAndGreyMorality where ''each'' side has its flaws and its strengths, and that neither is supposed to be the "good guys" ''or'' the "bad guys". Depending on who you ask, either the Empire is a noble but misunderstood power that is only accepting the Thalmor's demands out of necessity and their control of Skyrim is necessary to maintain stability (when they basically banned the worship of the most important Nord god ''and'' the deified form of their own founder because they didn't want to keep fighting) while the Stormcloaks are a bunch of racist barbarians led by a power-hungry tyrant who only wants Skyrim for himself (when Ulfric has good reason to be offended by the treatment of the Nordic culture and wants Skyrim to be governed by his own people, not to mention the fact that he regrets the fact that he has to fight a war and expresses remorse for his enemies), or the Stormcloaks are justified freedom fighters nobly defending their rightful land against foreign oppression (when they do indeed tend to be xenophobic, and outright racist against dark elves), while the Empire is a ruthless totalitarian regime that wants to crush the civilisations of its conquered territories (when they're only banning the worship of Talos as a diplomatic move that not even they are entirely approving of, and when a more stable unified empire could potentially be safer in the face of another war with the elves.)\\

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*** There seem to be a lot of people who don't understand that the civil war plotline is supposed to be a case of GrayAndGreyMorality where ''each'' side has its flaws and its strengths, and that neither is supposed to be the "good guys" ''or'' the "bad guys". Depending on who you ask, either the Empire is a noble but misunderstood power that is only accepting the Thalmor's demands out of necessity and their control of Skyrim is necessary to maintain stability (when they basically banned the worship of the most important Nord god ''and'' the deified form of their own founder because they didn't want to keep fighting) while the Stormcloaks are a bunch of racist barbarians led by a power-hungry tyrant who only wants Skyrim for himself (when Ulfric has good reason to be offended by the treatment of the Nordic culture and wants Skyrim to be governed by his own people, not to mention the fact that he regrets the fact that he has to fight a war and expresses remorse for his enemies), or the Stormcloaks are justified freedom fighters nobly defending their rightful land against foreign oppression (when they do indeed tend to be xenophobic, and outright racist against dark elves), while the Empire is a ruthless totalitarian regime that wants to crush the civilisations of its conquered territories (when they're only banning the worship of Talos as a diplomatic move that not even they are entirely approving of, and when a more stable unified empire could potentially be safer in the face of another war with the elves.)\\) Of course, the reality of the situation is that neither side is strictly right or strictly wrong, and the Thalmor are deliberately playing both sides against each other to weaken the Empire further.\\
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Not really sure what's up with this rant, but it's not misaimed fandom - seems to be complaining some people over-use Marcus/Jagen style characters? That's just different playstyles, which is absolutely dev intended.


** According to the devs, the series' central theme is revolving around the inherent humanity of the characters and that there's more to them than just being chess pieces, while also encouraging a lot of individual growth and the encouragement to use whoever you like the most as a character, due to the fact any unit in the series is designed with eventually becoming good in their own right. This, it seems, is sadly lost on the fandom as many people rigidly adhere to TierInducedScrappy with people judging a unit's worth based on ''immediate gains,'' which is why Seth, Haar, Titania are popular despite two of those three being built with being [[CrutchCharacter Crutch Characters]] in mind, while units that require more work than others are hated for no reason than just being bad units, despite that being the opposite of what the devs stated they wanted. Add that to how a lot of the series locks behind the character potential behind supports and the fandom's reluctance to actually learn more and state their opinions on it without adopting an extremely binary morality view (see below), and the community clearly enjoys the game, if for much different reasons than what the devs wanted. This extends all the way to ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' as well, with units that are notorious [[GameBreaker Game Breakers]] like the aforementioned Seth, Haar and Titania being rendered rather mediocre compared to units the game was "designed" to be used to play with.
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* In ''VideoGame/CallOfDutyBlackOpsII'', villain Raul Menendez has more than his fair share of fans. In-game, he's billed as the "hero of the 99%", and has inspired millions to follow his ideals. His exploits throughout the game (including rampaging through a burning homestead to save his sister, being able to shoot whomever he wants during the "Cordis Die" mission, and having a soft spot for David in 2025) has made at least one part of the fanbase believe Menendez is a cross between CrazyAwesome and a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds. Yet, he's still responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents prior to the events of the game (including, and up to, [[spoiler:Hudson and Alex Mason]]), and is more than willing to destroy the U.S. just to avenge the deaths of two people. Menendez is engaging in DisproportionateRetribution at its finest, and yet there are some people who consider him a hero.

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* In ''VideoGame/CallOfDutyBlackOpsII'', villain Raul Menendez has more than his fair share of fans. In-game, he's billed as the "hero of the 99%", and has inspired millions to follow his ideals. His exploits throughout the game (including rampaging through a burning homestead to save his sister, being able to shoot whomever he wants during the "Cordis Die" mission, and having a soft spot for David in 2025) has made at least one part of the fanbase believe Menendez is a cross between CrazyAwesome CrazyIsCool and a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds. Yet, he's still responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents prior to the events of the game (including, and up to, [[spoiler:Hudson and Alex Mason]]), and is more than willing to destroy the U.S. just to avenge the deaths of two people. Menendez is engaging in DisproportionateRetribution at its finest, and yet there are some people who consider him a hero.
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** ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXV'''s [[BigBad Ardyn]] is [[LoveToHate beloved]] by all Western fans for being a total MagnificentBastard with {{Troll}}ish tendencies who also has a [[TragicVillain backstory]] that makes him more than a CompleteMonster, and he is widely seen as much [[EvilIsCool cooler]] and overall a better character than the protagonists. Some take this to the point of recasting him as a HeroAntagonist who is justified in wanting revenge for [[spoiler: Somnus attempting to kill him, inadvertently killing his love Aera, and usurping the throne to become the founder of Lucis]]. Although what [[spoiler: Somnus]] did is cruel (and kicking his ass in Episode Ardyn is [[KickTheSonOfABitch very satisfying]]), it hardly justifies Ardyn [[spoiler: turning the entire planet into a DeathWorld to avenge himself on Somnus' distant descendant who has no idea about what his ancestor did, Ardyn was unfit to be king due to his corruption, even if Somnus' opposition to him was partially motivated by [[GreenEyedMonster jealousy]], and Somnus does seem regretful at the end of Episode Ardyn]].

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** ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXV'''s [[BigBad Ardyn]] is [[LoveToHate beloved]] by all most Western fans for being a total MagnificentBastard with {{Troll}}ish tendencies who also has a [[TragicVillain backstory]] that makes him more than a CompleteMonster, and he is widely seen as much [[EvilIsCool cooler]] and overall a better character than the protagonists. Some take this to the point of recasting him as a HeroAntagonist who is justified in wanting revenge for [[spoiler: Somnus attempting to kill him, inadvertently killing his love Aera, and usurping the throne to become the founder of Lucis]]. Although what [[spoiler: Somnus]] did is cruel (and kicking his ass in Episode Ardyn is [[KickTheSonOfABitch very satisfying]]), it hardly justifies Ardyn [[spoiler: turning the entire planet into a DeathWorld to avenge himself on Somnus' distant descendant who has no idea about what his ancestor did, Ardyn was unfit to be king due to his corruption, even if Somnus' opposition to him was partially motivated by [[GreenEyedMonster jealousy]], and Somnus does seem regretful at the end of Episode Ardyn]].
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*** Those who dislike the game's voice acting will always point to a [[SignatureScene particular scene]] where Tidus is laughing obnoxiously, to the point where it's become [[MemeticMutation emblematic]] of the game's problems in general. There exists a GameMod which replaces all of Tidus's dialogue with the laughing, and the music with autotuned Tidus laughs. However, in the scene itself, it's clearly supposed to be [[BadBadActing in-character bad acting]], with the other characters finding it embarrassing and complaining about it ("maybe you [[AnnoyingLaugh shouldn't laugh any more]]"). It got so bad that Creator/JamesArnoldTaylor, Tidus' English voice actor, made [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRWab0q9aw4 a YouTube video about it]].

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*** Those who dislike the game's voice acting will always point to a [[SignatureScene particular scene]] where Tidus is laughing obnoxiously, to the point where it's become [[MemeticMutation emblematic]] of the game's problems in general. There exists a GameMod which replaces all of Tidus's dialogue with the laughing, and the music with autotuned Tidus laughs. However, in the scene itself, it's clearly supposed to be [[BadBadActing in-character bad acting]], with the other characters finding it embarrassing and complaining about it ("maybe you [[AnnoyingLaugh shouldn't laugh any more]]"). It got so bad to the point that Creator/JamesArnoldTaylor, Tidus' English voice actor, made actor, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRWab0q9aw4 had to make a YouTube video about it]].to explain it in context]].



** Lightning of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'' has a ''lot'' of fans for her tough, take-no-prisoners attitude and her tendency to punch people who piss her off. They seem to have missed the part where treating everyone around her as incompetent and/or worthless and berating even her sister for "lying" about turning into a l'Cie (something that no sane person would ever lie about) is not good for her or anyone else. Also, punching people doesn't fix anything and doesn't even make her feel that much better, which is why she gets CharacterDevelopment to ''be a better friend''. (And no, that doesn't mean she's not tough anymore.)

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** Lightning of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'' has a ''lot'' of fans and her large fanbase just shows how gamers tend to have really bad role models. Gamers tend to love Lightning for her tough, take-no-prisoners attitude and her tendency to punch people who piss her off. They seem to have missed the part where treating everyone around her as incompetent and/or worthless and berating even her sister for "lying" about turning into a l'Cie (something that no sane person would ever lie about) is not good for her or anyone else. Also, punching people doesn't fix anything and doesn't even make her feel that much better, which is why she gets CharacterDevelopment to ''be a better friend''. (And no, that doesn't mean she's not tough anymore.)
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* Tom Nook in ''VideoGame/AnimalCrossing'' is a kind raccoon who, despite charging the player a ton of money to buy and upgrade their house, lets them take as much time as they need to pay the loan back with zero interest. This somehow got translated in the fandom as Tom Nook being an evil and greedy LoanShark that acts not better than a MorallyBankruptBanker or a mobster that will kill you if you don't pay up. While fans have made the evil comparisons mostly as a joke, some have taken it at true face value and others [[DiscreditedMeme ran the joke into the ground.]] It got to the point where despite Tom Nook being shown raising his two kids that are not his, wanting to reward people for their hard work, and having a history with Sable, and having a troubled past that destroyed his idealism, fans still saw him as someone who is out to make the player character miserable with debts instead of cutting them a break. It also didn't help that in ''VideoGame/AnimalCrossingHappyHomeDesigner'', the developers knew of the jokes and fan interpretations where they basically had Tom Nook say "[[ThenLetMeBeEvil Let people paint me as the boogeyman]] as long as people learn that debts must be paid!" It wasn't until ''VideoGame/AnimalCrossingNewHorizons'' where Tom Nook became more kind and optimistic, which caused most people who held the "Tom Nook is evil" stance to finally back down.
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** Fans who complain about the Squall and Rinoa romance of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', saying that he should have got with [[HotForStudent Quistis]] when she offered the opportunity simply because she's MsFanservice. Quistis's advances towards Squall were based entirely on her hopes of obtaining emotional support from a guy who's even more messed up than she is. As Squall points out, [[HotForTeacher she's his teacher]], and it would be grossly unprofessional and unethical of her to romantically pursue him. Not to mention that it's later implied that their relationship would be akin to BrotherSisterIncest. Technically, [[LikeBrotherAndSister they aren't]], so this hasn't stopped some fans from pairing them.

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** Fans who complain about the Squall and Rinoa romance of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', saying that he should have got with [[HotForStudent [[TeacherStudentRomance Quistis]] when she offered the opportunity simply because she's MsFanservice. Quistis's advances towards Squall were based entirely on her hopes of obtaining emotional support from a guy who's even more messed up than she is. As Squall points out, [[HotForTeacher [[TeacherStudentRomance she's his teacher]], and it would be grossly unprofessional and unethical of her to romantically pursue him. Not to mention that it's later implied that their relationship would be akin to BrotherSisterIncest. Technically, [[LikeBrotherAndSister they aren't]], so this hasn't stopped some fans from pairing them.
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** ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'' has a very unique situation; the third act deals with [[spoiler:the Templars of Kirkwall turning their already abusive repression of the mages UpToEleven, not helped at all by their commander being bonkers by an ArtifactOfDoom, and the desperate renegade mages turning to terrorism and/or BloodMagic because of it until there's literally open civil war in the streets]]. Neither side is portrayed as wholly in the right (the old "reason does not equal justification" argument) but rather as two opposing WellIntentionedExtremist groups who each went completely over the edge. Never mind that the game let you choose to side with either one while being rather difficult to go for a somewhat more neutral stance, several message boards were bogged down with arguments over ''which side'' was right in trying to [[KillEmAll slaughter anyone even tangentially associated with the other side]] rather than whether or not either one was maybe going too far.
** After ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'', [[spoiler:Solas]] is revealed to have a plan to [[spoiler:destroy the world]]. While he is an AntiVillain you're supposed to sympathize with, you're clearly not supposed to agree with his plans. This does not stop some people from doing so, going so far as wishing the Inquisitor could help him, even though he himself regrets what he feels he must do and does not want them to go down that path. There actually is a dialog option to offer to join him (may require romance), but he turns it down.

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** ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'' has a very unique situation; the third act deals with [[spoiler:the Templars of Kirkwall turning their already abusive repression of the mages UpToEleven, not helped at all by their commander being bonkers by an ArtifactOfDoom, ArtifactOfDoom or trying to cope with many horrifying abuses of blood magic and demonic possession; and the desperate desperate, terrified renegade mages turning to terrorism and/or and BloodMagic in response because of they feel it can't be any worse than what they're already enduring, until there's literally open civil war in the streets]]. streets, killing hundreds of innocents]]. Neither side is portrayed as wholly in the right (the old "reason does not equal justification" argument) argument; the two groups in fact represent a minority of Kirkwall's population) but rather as two opposing WellIntentionedExtremist groups who each went completely over the edge. edge due to a series of unforeseen, escalating problems. Never mind that the game let lets you choose to side with justify choosing either one side while being rather difficult to go for a somewhat more neutral stance, several message boards were (and some still are) bogged down with arguments over ''which side'' was right in trying to [[KillEmAll slaughter anyone even tangentially associated with the other side]] rather than whether or not either one (or both) was maybe going too far.
** After ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'', [[spoiler:Solas]] is revealed to have a plan to [[spoiler:destroy the world]]. While he is an AntiVillain you're supposed to sympathize with, you're clearly not supposed to agree with his plans. plans -- while he's deliberately vague on what they will involve, it's [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide unlikely to be healthy for anyone in Thedas as it exists]]. This does not stop some people from doing so, agreeing anyway, going so far as wishing the Inquisitor could help him, even though he himself regrets what he feels he must do and does not want them to go down that path. There actually is a dialog option to offer to join him (may (though it may require romance), but he turns it down.down, and in fact breaks off his relationship with a romanced Inquisitor specifically because he believes his true plan will render him irredeemable in her eyes.



*** Lucien Lachance is a psychopathic killer who takes unabashed glee in murdering others, but one look at him and most fangirls bring out the [[DracoInLeatherPants leather pants]]. Partially justified in what you need to do in order to even meet him: joining the Dark Brotherhood. A clan of assassins catered by both the [[GodOfEvil God of]] [[PowerOfTheVoid the Void]], Sithis, and his most loyal subject, an ancient woman who sacrificed her six newborn sons for the glory of said god, and who relays their lord's will through her mummified corpse for only a few select ears to listen. Adhering to such a guild would assume that the player has an special mindset about killing, revenge (the main reason people contract their services), and about being a sword of vindication... But seeing how the fandom only harped about how the gear, perks and other rewards, it seems that the Developer’s accidently sabotaged their own message.

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*** Lucien Lachance is a psychopathic killer who takes unabashed glee in murdering others, but one look at him and most fangirls bring out the [[DracoInLeatherPants leather pants]]. Partially justified in what you need to do in order to even meet him: joining the Dark Brotherhood. A clan of assassins catered by both the [[GodOfEvil God of]] [[PowerOfTheVoid the Void]], Sithis, and his most loyal subject, an ancient woman who sacrificed her six newborn sons for the glory of said god, and who relays their lord's will through her mummified corpse for only a few select ears to listen. Adhering to such a guild would assume that the player has an special mindset about killing, revenge (the main reason people contract their services), and about being a sword of vindication... But seeing how the fandom only harped about how the gear, perks and other rewards, it seems that the Developer’s Developers accidently sabotaged their own message.



And a good portion of people who don't entirely agree with the Empire or the Stormcloaks symphathize with the Forsworn instead, to the point of publicly expressing their disappointment that the game doesn't allow you to join them [[note]]Technically, you can join the Forsworn by freeing Madanach, but only his tribe in Druadach Redoubt would become friendly[[/note]]. Yes, it is true that the Forsworn are trying to take back their homeland from foreign oppressors. No, you are ''not'' supposed to think [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide the]] [[ImAHumanitarian things]] [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil they]] [[GenuineHumanHide do]] in response to said foreign oppressors are in any way correct or justified.

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And a good portion of people who don't entirely agree with the Empire or the Stormcloaks symphathize with the Forsworn instead, to the point of publicly expressing their disappointment that the game doesn't allow you to join them them. [[note]]Technically, you can join the Forsworn by freeing Madanach, but only his tribe in Druadach Redoubt would become friendly[[/note]]. friendly.[[/note]] Yes, it is true that the Forsworn are trying to take back their homeland from foreign oppressors. No, you are ''not'' supposed to think [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide the]] [[ImAHumanitarian things]] [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil they]] [[GenuineHumanHide do]] in response to said foreign oppressors are in any way correct or justified.
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*** For some reason, a certain quote of Joshua Graham's ("I survived because the fire inside burned brighter than the fire around me.") has taken on a life of its own, with it being reposted on many inspirational blog sites, ''even quoting Graham as the creator of the quote.'' Graham's writer (and New Vegas Lead Designer) JE Sawyer actually [[https://www.instagram.com/p/BLy1vjJAyZs/ stumbled across the quote written on a trail in his home state of Wisconsin]] and [[https://www.reddit.com/r/fnv/comments/58orm1/je_sawyer_posted_this_on_his_instagram_yesterday/d92wfjy/?st=iuqlydhf&sh=9cb90ffd some people]] have reported teachers using it in English class as an inspirational quote. Even then, if you take the quote as inspirational (it can be interpreted as such), the lack of context ruins the inspiration Graham puts behind the words. Out of context, the outer fire is commonly interpreted as stress or general adversity, and internal fire is just inner strength. In context, Graham says the fire inside was the [[ThePowerOfLove his love for his people and for God, and their love for him]], while the external fire is a [[LiteralMetaphor literal fire]], having been immolated and tossed into the Grand Canyon for [[YouHaveFailedMe failing to defeat]] the NCR at Hoover Dam. It is however a popular quote among Firefighters, especially Forest Firefighters, which despite not knowing the source, are much more in line with original meaning.
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** Some players complain about Yukiko's decision to give up on a chance to pursue an interior decorating career outside Inaba and instead inherit her family's inn, viewing it as a betrayal of her character arc, in which she becomes more independent. This is missing the point of Yukiko's CharacterDevelopment- before, she resigned herself to inheriting the inn because she felt as though she had to do it, but by the end of her Social Link, she decides to inherit the inn because she ''wants'' to do it to help her family, the inn's employees and the town. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfBSSYfIvyg This video]] analyzes Yukiko's character and explains why her decision to stay in Inaba makes sense for her.
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The section came off as unnecessarily incendiary in the way it was written


** As mentioned on the Anime And Manga page, there's the ever-lasting debate between Red (the protagonist of first set of games), and Ash Ketchum (the anime's main protagonist). Generally, people side with Red, because he's cooler and smarter than the [[TooDumbToLive dumb-as-a-rock Ash]]. There's a few problems with this, though; first off, Ash has done a lot of things that Red has not, a lot of which are impressive in their own right. Second, Red and Ash are pretty much the same guy, with Ash being Red if Red had [[VanillaProtagonist an actual personality]]. For that matter, there's the final flaw in the argument: with Red being the player's character, ''of course'' he can be more awesome than Ash, '''you can do whatever you want with him'''. [[FridgeBrilliance Guess some of those fans are purposefully seeing him as]] WishFulfillment?... Regardless, Red fans see Red as perfect, completely ignoring that Ash isn't bad and straight-up rejecting these facts.
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** ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXV'''s [[BigBad Ardyn]] is [[LoveToHate beloved]] by all Western fans for being a total MagnificentBastard with {{Troll}}ish tendencies who also has a [[TragicVillain backstory]] that makes him more than a CompleteMonster, and he is widely seen as much [[EvilIsCool cooler]] and overall a better character than the protagonists. Some take this to the point of recasting him as a HeroAntagonist who is justified in wanting revenge for [[spoiler: Somnus attempting to kill him, inadvertently killing his love Aera, and usurping the throne to become the founder of Lucis]]. Although what [[spoiler: Somnus]] did is cruel (and kicking his ass in Episode Ardyn is [[KickTheSonOfABitch very satisfying]]), it hardly justifies Ardyn [[spoiler: turning the entire planet into a DeathWorld to avenge himself on Somnus' distant descendant who has no idea about what his ancestor did, Ardyn was unfit to be king due to his corruption, even if Somnus' opposition to him was partially motivated by [[GreenEyedMonster jealousy]], and Somnus does seem regretful at the end of Episode Ardyn]].

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** Taking the argument to the other extreme, some of the fans think that the "take your heart" treatment is the be-all end-all for any corrupt criminal. The Phantom Thieves start questioning how legitimate this is of an answer in-universe when they see [[spoiler:taking their targets' hearts only made them miserable {{Empty Shell}}s instead of working towards internal reform]], and several major targets are shown coming to the HeelRealization on their own without any need to take their hearts, underlining the major theme of change starting from within. [[spoiler:The bad ending emphasizes this by having the Thieves decide to police everyone in Tokyo through their abilities because they can't trust the populace to reform on their own.]] ''VideoGame/Persona5ScrambleThePhantomStrikers'' even lacks the heart-stealing aspect of its major antagonists for this reason. Yet despite these risks, and even in some cases ''because'' of them (better they be [[spoiler:spiritually lobotomized and eternally guilt-ridden]] than corrupt and unchecked), and because it looks [[DoNotDoThisCoolThing impossibly cool]] when they do it, fans want the Phantom Thieves to keep up their thievery.

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** Taking the argument to the other extreme, some of the fans think that the "take your heart" treatment is the be-all end-all for any corrupt criminal. The Phantom Thieves start questioning how legitimate this is of an answer in-universe when they see [[spoiler:taking their targets' hearts only made them miserable {{Empty Shell}}s instead of working towards internal reform]], and several major targets are shown coming to the HeelRealization on their own without any need to take their hearts, underlining the major theme of change starting from within. [[spoiler:The bad ending emphasizes this by having the Thieves decide to police everyone in Tokyo through their abilities because they can't trust the populace to reform on their own.]] ''VideoGame/Persona5ScrambleThePhantomStrikers'' ''VideoGame/Persona5Strikers'' even lacks the heart-stealing aspect of its major antagonists for this reason. Yet despite these risks, and even in some cases ''because'' of them (better they be [[spoiler:spiritually lobotomized and eternally guilt-ridden]] than corrupt and unchecked), and because it looks [[DoNotDoThisCoolThing impossibly cool]] when they do it, fans want the Phantom Thieves to keep up their thievery.


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** ''Persona 5 Strikers'' has another InUniverse example. [[spoiler:Akane Hasegawa]] becomes a big fan of the Phantom Thieves, believing them as promoting [[BlackAndWhiteInsanity all rebels as heroes and all authority figures as villains.]] While it's true that the thieves' rebellion helped a lot of people and they targeted horrible people in power, they only went after specific targets, who themselves were rebelling against what was considered right.

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* Many fans of the ''VideoGame/{{Portal}}'' games became huge fans of Cave Johnson after hearing recorded speeches from him in the "Old Aperture Labs" levels of ''Videogame/{{Portal 2}}'', causing them to perceive him as being CrazyAwesome. The reality is, though, we're supposed to think of Cave Johnson as a delusional, highly dangerous bungling incompetent who caused the deaths of untold numbers of people and bankrupted his own company in the pursuit of outlandish, crackpot ideas like using a portal-creating device as a ''shower curtain''. The {{Crazy Awesome}}ness of Cave Johnson is so well-entrenched that things like the fact his famous "when life gives you lemons" speech are actually supposed to be the demented ravings of a lunatic imbecile who refuses to accept that he murdered people and ruined his company because of his own incompetence actually wound up on the [[Fridge/Portal2 Portal 2 Fridge subpage]] -- they're considered ''that'' unobvious.

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* Many fans of the ''VideoGame/{{Portal}}'' games became huge fans of Cave Johnson after hearing recorded speeches from him in the "Old Aperture Labs" levels of ''Videogame/{{Portal 2}}'', causing them to perceive him as being CrazyAwesome.a spectacular case of SuccessThroughInsanity. The reality is, though, we're supposed to think of Cave Johnson as a delusional, highly dangerous bungling incompetent who caused the deaths of untold numbers of people and bankrupted his own company in the pursuit of outlandish, crackpot ideas like using a portal-creating device as a ''shower curtain''. The {{Crazy Awesome}}ness awesomeness of Cave Johnson is so well-entrenched that things like the fact his famous "when life gives you lemons" speech are actually supposed to be the demented ravings of a lunatic imbecile who refuses to accept that he murdered people and ruined his company because of his own incompetence actually wound up on the [[Fridge/Portal2 Portal 2 Fridge subpage]] -- they're considered ''that'' unobvious.



** Yukari Takeba's [[TookALevelInJerkass actions]] in The Answer are seen by many fans as proof she was a horrible BitchInSheepsClothing all along. While its true her actions are meant to be viewed as wrong, the game makes it clear [[DespairEventHorizon she's irrational over the loss of someone extremely close to her]], and dealing with personal loss is a major theme of the game. When she eventually opens up to her friends about it, they're able to help her through it [[CharacterDevelopment and she comes out a better person.]] Her detractors ignore her epiphany and consider her a nothing more than a cruel, jealous AlphaBitch, and downplay her moments of niceness during the main story.\\\

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** Yukari Takeba's [[TookALevelInJerkass actions]] in The Answer are seen by many fans as proof she was a horrible BitchInSheepsClothing all along. While its it's true that her actions are meant to be viewed as wrong, the game makes it clear [[DespairEventHorizon she's irrational over the loss of someone extremely close to her]], and dealing with personal loss is a major theme of the game. When she eventually opens up to her friends about it, they're able to help her through it [[CharacterDevelopment and she comes out a better person.]] Her detractors ignore her epiphany and consider her a nothing more than a cruel, jealous AlphaBitch, and downplay her moments of niceness during the main story.\\\



** Some fans insist that Naoto Shirogane is actually a transgender man even though she affirms in-game that she's a girl and she [[SweetPollyOliver disguises herself as a boy]] to be taken seriously as a detective. Her character is supposed to be commentary on Japan's strict gender roles, not gender identity, [[ValuesDissonance something that was missed by Western fans]]. Some even argue that [[InsaneTrollLogic the only reason she isn't canonically trans is because the writers themselves were too transphobic to make a trans character,]] therefore she's actually "supposed" to be trans and the canon should be disregarded in favor of "reclaiming" the perceived trans representation from the supposed bigots. None of this is supported at all by the games script in any language and doesn't line up with her characterization either.
** The fandom has a tendency to fixate on Kanji's ambiguous sexuality as the be-all, end-all of his problems, when the game makes it clear that, as much as his sexuality is a ''part'' of his problems with himself, his real problem is with acceptance of his whole personality -- especially his [[RealMenWearPink "unmanly" hobbies and interests]] -- both from himself and from other people. Essentially, the fans [[{{Flanderization}} flanderize]] him into "the token Gay Guy", when his actual story is how he simply isn't sure how to view himself in relation to Japan's strict viewpoints on gender roles. His Shadow is also touted as if it's absolute truth that he's gay - except that again, Kanji's arc is about how arbitrary gender and sexuality expectations are forced upon someone.... and thus [[UnfortunateImplications the fandom doing it is]] ''exactly'' what caused his problem to begin with.
*** ''WebAnimation/ExtraCredits'' gets on on this - in their sexual diversity episode, they praise Atlus for writing a gay character and praise Kanji because a tough guy with a feminine side who is gay (And comes to terms about it) makes him different than the other tough guys with feminine sides in their eyes. The bit about the acceptance of his personality is rarely mentioned at all, and they even bring up Naoto as an example in this episode but don't go in because they feel it would be too spoilerific.
*** Kanji is also touted as proof that Japan is perfectly accepting of homosexuality, as well as some obscure Yaoi game or the presence of the YaoiFangirl trope... Except that many instances of yaoi is seen as niche at best in Japan, the genre itself is aimed at straight people - and Japan is actually not nearly as LGBT-friendly as many people believe it to be. In fact, a lot of Kanji's issues stem from how Japanese society rejects him for being AmbiguouslyGay, Yosuke's teasing him about it is a BerserkButton for Kanji, and in addition to having a crush on Naoto, also shows interest in Yukiko early on.

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** Some Many people mistakenly believe that a person's Shadow shows ''the'' absolute truth about a person, when in fact it represents a twisted and exaggerated version of a person's personal issues. This misconception has led to some characters being appreciated for the wrong reasons:
*** Naoto Shirogane's Shadow takes the form of a MadScientist who is preparing to perform a "bodily alteration procedure" on the real Naoto to [[GenderBender turn her into a male]]. This has led some
fans to insist that Naoto Shirogane is actually a transgender man man, even though she affirms in-game that she's a girl and she [[SweetPollyOliver disguises herself as a boy]] to be taken seriously as a detective.detective. Shadow Naoto merely represents Naoto's misguided belief that she needs to be a man in order to be a proper detective, something which is clearly wrong. Her character is supposed to be commentary on Japan's strict gender roles, not gender identity, [[ValuesDissonance something that was missed by Western fans]]. Some even argue that [[InsaneTrollLogic the only reason she isn't canonically trans is because the writers themselves were too transphobic to make a trans character,]] character, therefore she's actually "supposed" to be trans and the canon should be disregarded in favor of "reclaiming" the perceived trans representation from the supposed bigots. None of this is supported at all by the games script in any language and doesn't line up with her characterization either.
** The *** Shadow Kanji takes the form of a CampGay man (and before that, there are a few moments that portray Kanji as AmbiguouslyGay). Because of this, the fandom has a tendency to fixate on Kanji's ambiguous sexuality as the be-all, end-all of his problems, when the game makes it clear that, as much as his sexuality is a ''part'' of his problems with himself, his real problem is with acceptance of his whole personality -- especially his [[RealMenWearPink "unmanly" hobbies and interests]] -- both from himself and from other people. Essentially, the fans [[{{Flanderization}} flanderize]] him into "the token Gay Guy", when his actual story is how he simply isn't sure how to view himself in relation to Japan's strict viewpoints on gender roles. His Shadow is also touted as if it's absolute truth that he's gay - except that again, Kanji's arc is about how arbitrary gender and sexuality expectations are forced upon someone.... and thus [[UnfortunateImplications the fandom doing it is]] ''exactly'' what caused his problem to begin with.with.
*** Kanji, along with the existence of the YaoiGenre or the presence of the YaoiFangirl trope, are also touted as proof that Japan is perfectly accepting of homosexuality... Except that many instances of yaoi is seen as niche at best in Japan, the genre itself is aimed at straight people - and Japan is actually not nearly as LGBT-friendly as many people believe it to be. In fact, a lot of Kanji's issues stem from how Japanese society rejects him for being AmbiguouslyGay, Yosuke's teasing him about it is a BerserkButton for Kanji, and in addition to having a crush on Naoto, also shows interest in Yukiko early on.

*** ''WebAnimation/ExtraCredits'' gets on on this - in their sexual diversity episode, they praise Atlus for writing a gay character and praise Kanji because a tough guy with a feminine side who is gay (And comes to terms about it) makes him different than the other tough guys with feminine sides in their eyes. The bit about the acceptance of his personality is rarely mentioned at all, and they even bring up Naoto as an example in this episode but don't go in because they feel it would be too spoilerific. \n*** Kanji is also touted as proof that Japan is perfectly accepting of homosexuality, as well as some obscure Yaoi game or the presence of the YaoiFangirl trope... Except that many instances of yaoi is seen as niche at best in Japan, the genre itself is aimed at straight people - and Japan is actually not nearly as LGBT-friendly as many people believe it to be. In fact, a lot of Kanji's issues stem from how Japanese society rejects him for being AmbiguouslyGay, Yosuke's teasing him about it is a BerserkButton for Kanji, and in addition to having a crush on Naoto, also shows interest in Yukiko early on.
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*** Those who dislike the games voice acting will always point to a [[SignatureScene particular scene]] where Tidus is laughing obnoxiously, to the point where it's become [[MemeticMutation emblematic]] of the game's problems in general. There exists a GameMod which replaces all of Tidus's dialogue with the laughing, and the music with autotuned Tidus laughs. However, in the scene itself, it's clearly supposed to be [[BadBadActing in-character bad acting]], with the other characters finding it embarrassing and complaining about it ("maybe you [[AnnoyingLaugh shouldn't laugh any more]]"). It got so bad that Creator/JamesArnoldTaylor, Tidus' English voice actor, made [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRWab0q9aw4 a YouTube video about it]].

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*** Those who dislike the games game's voice acting will always point to a [[SignatureScene particular scene]] where Tidus is laughing obnoxiously, to the point where it's become [[MemeticMutation emblematic]] of the game's problems in general. There exists a GameMod which replaces all of Tidus's dialogue with the laughing, and the music with autotuned Tidus laughs. However, in the scene itself, it's clearly supposed to be [[BadBadActing in-character bad acting]], with the other characters finding it embarrassing and complaining about it ("maybe you [[AnnoyingLaugh shouldn't laugh any more]]"). It got so bad that Creator/JamesArnoldTaylor, Tidus' English voice actor, made [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRWab0q9aw4 a YouTube video about it]].
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** VideoGame/FinalFantasyX''

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** VideoGame/FinalFantasyX'' ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyX''
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** During the presentation for [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Sephiroth]], Sakurai pointed out that he wanted to make ''Smash'' a simple party game rather than a competitive fighter, something the casual side of the CasualCompetitiveConflict latched on to because they like to constantly remind competitive players of it. However, immediately after, he said that the details of a move's frame data should be left to tournament players, as he just brought up the frame data for Sephiroth's forward and back air attacks. His actual purpose for this scene was simply to remind himself that casual players don't care about frame data, not that tournaments are bad.
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* ''VideoGame/GoldenSunTheLostAge'' gives us the WhamLine that Saturos and Menardi from [[VideoGame/GoldenSun2001 the first game]] [[spoiler: were actually [[AntiVillain doing what was right]] for their hometown and the world]], and that they were right. While indeed, the cast of the first game [[spoiler: actually take over their footsteps in going to light the rest of the lighthouses]], it's very hard to blame them for thinking that Saturos and Menardi were pure evil and wanted to unseal alchemy for their own selfish purposes. Saturos and Menardi [[HeKnowsTooMuch beat up Isaac and Garet when they were fourteen for simply overhearing them]], regularly beat up (and sometimes kill) people who got in their way, go out of their way to KickTheDog for [[ForTheEvulz a cheap giggle]] like shoving a tree they knew [[AndIMustScream was a cursed woman]] into the river (it's implied it killed her), engaged in kidnapping, and attempted to kill them ''multiple'' times. PoorCommunicationKills, yes - given the information that Isaac and Garet (As well as the players!) were given in the first game, it's hard to blame the first four for thinking Saturos and Menardi were evil when they're at absolute best [[SociopathicHero Sociopathic]] {{Nominal Hero}}es. This is even acknowledged when the party gets to their hometown in ''The Lost Age'', with the town mayor and elder coming to understand and not fault Isaac's party [[spoiler:for killing Saturos and Menardi]] once they explain why.

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* ''VideoGame/GoldenSunTheLostAge'' gives us the WhamLine that Saturos and Menardi from [[VideoGame/GoldenSun2001 [[VideoGame/GoldenSun1 the first game]] [[spoiler: were actually [[AntiVillain doing what was right]] for their hometown and the world]], and that they were right. While indeed, the cast of the first game [[spoiler: actually take over their footsteps in going to light the rest of the lighthouses]], it's very hard to blame them for thinking that Saturos and Menardi were pure evil and wanted to unseal alchemy for their own selfish purposes. Saturos and Menardi [[HeKnowsTooMuch beat up Isaac and Garet when they were fourteen for simply overhearing them]], regularly beat up (and sometimes kill) people who got in their way, go out of their way to KickTheDog for [[ForTheEvulz a cheap giggle]] like shoving a tree they knew [[AndIMustScream was a cursed woman]] into the river (it's implied it killed her), engaged in kidnapping, and attempted to kill them ''multiple'' times. PoorCommunicationKills, yes - given the information that Isaac and Garet (As well as the players!) were given in the first game, it's hard to blame the first four for thinking Saturos and Menardi were evil when they're at absolute best [[SociopathicHero Sociopathic]] {{Nominal Hero}}es. This is even acknowledged when the party gets to their hometown in ''The Lost Age'', with the town mayor and elder coming to understand and not fault Isaac's party [[spoiler:for killing Saturos and Menardi]] once they explain why.
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* ''VideoGame/ProgressQuest'' was meant to be a satire of level grinding skinner boxes in [=MMORPGs=] by taking the concept to its logical conclusion, a game that literally plays itself with no input from the player. The idea was that such a concept would be incredibly boring. Years later, [[IdleGame games that play themselves became a a real, completely unironic genre]].

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* ''VideoGame/ProgressQuest'' was meant to be a satire of level grinding skinner boxes in [=MMORPGs=] by taking the concept to its logical conclusion, a game that literally plays itself with no input from the player. The idea was that such a concept when stripped of the graphics and the illusion of choice, the core experience of these games would be incredibly boring. boring.Years later, [[IdleGame games that play themselves became a a real, completely unironic genre]]. [[BribingYourWayToVictory Many of them are even monetized]].
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* ''VideoGame/ProgressQuest'' was meant to be a satire of level grinding skinner boxes in MMORPGs by taking this to its logical conclusion, a game that literally plays itself with no input from the player. Years later, [[IdleGame games that play themselves became a a real, completely unironic genre]].

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* ''VideoGame/ProgressQuest'' was meant to be a satire of level grinding skinner boxes in MMORPGs [=MMORPGs=] by taking this the concept to its logical conclusion, a game that literally plays itself with no input from the player.player. The idea was that such a concept would be incredibly boring. Years later, [[IdleGame games that play themselves became a a real, completely unironic genre]].
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* ''VideoGame/ProgressQuest'' was meant to be a satire of level grinding skinner boxes in MMORPGs by taking this to its logical conclusion, a game that literally plays itself with no input from the player. Years later, [[IdleGame games that play themselves became a a real, completely unironic genre]].
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** A lot of fans see Tharja's {{Yandere}} attitute towards [[PlayerCharacter the Avatar]] as fetish material and it's a major reason why [[EnsembleDarkhorse she's so popular]]. Her ending up as an [[AbusiveParents abusive mother]] to her daughter Noire [[spoiler: in the BadFuture]] was most likely intended as a PlayerPunch for players who didn't realise this, as well as a {{Deconstruction}} of what marrying a {{Yandere}} might eventually lead to. And yet there are a ton of fans who see the Avatar, Tharja and their children as a perfect happy family, despite Noire herself calling her mother out on her behavior and Tharja herself realizing that this isn't the way to go. There's no denying she ''does'' have a HiddenHeartOfGold, but that still doesn't mean her negative traits were meant to be appealing.

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** *** A lot of fans see Tharja's {{Yandere}} attitute towards [[PlayerCharacter the Avatar]] as fetish material and it's a major reason why [[EnsembleDarkhorse she's so popular]]. Her ending up as an [[AbusiveParents abusive mother]] to her daughter Noire [[spoiler: in the BadFuture]] was most likely intended as a PlayerPunch for players who didn't realise this, as well as a {{Deconstruction}} of what marrying a {{Yandere}} might eventually lead to. And yet there are a ton of fans who see the Avatar, Tharja and their children as a perfect happy family, despite Noire herself calling her mother out on her behavior and Tharja herself realizing that this isn't the way to go. There's no denying she ''does'' have a HiddenHeartOfGold, but that still doesn't mean her negative traits were meant to be appealing.

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* ''VideoGame/FireEmblem'' has it's central theme, according to the devs, being the inherent humanity of the characters and that there's more to them than just being chess pieces, while also encouraging a lot of individual growth and the encouragement to use whoever you like the most as a character, due to the fact any unit in the series is designed with eventually becoming good in their own right. This, it seems, is sadly lost on the fandom as many people rigidly adhere to TierInducedScrappy with people judging a unit's worth based on ''immediate gains,'' which is why Seth, Haar, Titania are popular despite two of those three being built with being [[CrutchCharacter Crutch Characters]] in mind, while units that require more work than others are hated for no reason than just being bad units, despite that being the opposite of what the devs stated they wanted. Add that to how a lot of the series locks behind the character potential behind supports and the fandom's reluctance to actually learn more and state their opinions on it without adopting an extremely binary morality view (see below), and the community clearly enjoys the game, if for much different reasons than what the devs wanted. This extends all the way to ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' as well, with units that are notorious [[GameBreaker Game Breakers]] like the aforementioned Seth, Haar and Titania being rendered rather mediocre compared to units the game was "designed" to be used to play with.

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* ''VideoGame/FireEmblem'' has it's central theme, according ''VideoGame/FireEmblem'':
** According
to the devs, being the series' central theme is revolving around the inherent humanity of the characters and that there's more to them than just being chess pieces, while also encouraging a lot of individual growth and the encouragement to use whoever you like the most as a character, due to the fact any unit in the series is designed with eventually becoming good in their own right. This, it seems, is sadly lost on the fandom as many people rigidly adhere to TierInducedScrappy with people judging a unit's worth based on ''immediate gains,'' which is why Seth, Haar, Titania are popular despite two of those three being built with being [[CrutchCharacter Crutch Characters]] in mind, while units that require more work than others are hated for no reason than just being bad units, despite that being the opposite of what the devs stated they wanted. Add that to how a lot of the series locks behind the character potential behind supports and the fandom's reluctance to actually learn more and state their opinions on it without adopting an extremely binary morality view (see below), and the community clearly enjoys the game, if for much different reasons than what the devs wanted. This extends all the way to ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' as well, with units that are notorious [[GameBreaker Game Breakers]] like the aforementioned Seth, Haar and Titania being rendered rather mediocre compared to units the game was "designed" to be used to play with.

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* ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'':
** "Mad King" Gangrel is simply after WarForFunAndProfit, not having any noble motives by the game's beginning. This is hammered '''repeatedly''' through the game, [[spoiler:'''even by Gangrel himself after his HeelFaceTurn''' who says he lost sight of his original goal of uniting the continent against Valm after taking power]]. And yet many Gangrel fans say he was a WellIntentionedExtremist out for justice against Plegia. This is despite the game showing Gangrel oppressing Plegians, his backstory making it clear the Ylisse/Grimleal war didn't affect him, and his MotiveRant revealing he wanted revenge on Plegia for his bad childhood.

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* ''VideoGame/FireEmblem'' has it's central theme, according to the devs, being the inherent humanity of the characters and that there's more to them than just being chess pieces, while also encouraging a lot of individual growth and the encouragement to use whoever you like the most as a character, due to the fact any unit in the series is designed with eventually becoming good in their own right. This, it seems, is sadly lost on the fandom as many people rigidly adhere to TierInducedScrappy with people judging a unit's worth based on ''immediate gains,'' which is why Seth, Haar, Titania are popular despite two of those three being built with being [[CrutchCharacter Crutch Characters]] in mind, while units that require more work than others are hated for no reason than just being bad units, despite that being the opposite of what the devs stated they wanted. Add that to how a lot of the series locks behind the character potential behind supports and the fandom's reluctance to actually learn more and state their opinions on it without adopting an extremely binary morality view (see below), and the community clearly enjoys the game, if for much different reasons than what the devs wanted. This extends all the way to ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' as well, with units that are notorious [[GameBreaker Game Breakers]] like the aforementioned Seth, Haar and Titania being rendered rather mediocre compared to units the game was "designed" to be used to play with.
**
''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'':
** *** "Mad King" Gangrel is simply after WarForFunAndProfit, not having any noble motives by the game's beginning. This is hammered '''repeatedly''' through the game, [[spoiler:'''even by Gangrel himself after his HeelFaceTurn''' who says he lost sight of his original goal of uniting the continent against Valm after taking power]]. And yet many Gangrel fans say he was a WellIntentionedExtremist out for justice against Plegia. This is despite the game showing Gangrel oppressing Plegians, his backstory making it clear the Ylisse/Grimleal war didn't affect him, and his MotiveRant revealing he wanted revenge on Plegia for his bad childhood.



** In the [[BeachEpisode Summer Scramble]] DLC, Miriel has a conversation with Sumia where, due to the extreme heat, she hallucinates that Sumia is secretly a BitchInSheepsClothing who's been faking being a CuteClumsyGirl all along to lure in men. This is supposed to be a joke, but since Sumia has a ''massive'' amount of DieForOurShip surrounding her, her haters use this conversation as ''legit canonical proof'' that she's really EvilAllAlong.
* ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'':
** The game has two realms with very different sets of morals and very different world-buildings associated to them. Both are supposed to be seen as possessing pros and flaws which are incarnated in their Royal Families: despite their differences they all love the Avatar, [[ChildOfTwoWorlds who belongs to both groups]], with all their hearts and will '''not''' react well to him or her choosing one over another [[spoiler: or, in ''Revelation'', '''not''' choosing a side.]] However, the fans have decided to latch on one Royal Family/Kingdom [[RonTheDeathEater and bash the fuck out of the other]], portraying their chosen "family" as poor dumb innocents whose flaws must be ignored or swept away to fetishize their suffering, while the other one is downgraded to Evil Incarnate and has its pros handwaved. The most rabid Nohr fans creepily reduce the genuinely tragic Nohrian Royal Family into helpless and fetishized victims who should never be called out for their own mistakes, while at the same time whining about the "horrible and privileged" Hoshidan Royal Family and deliberately ignoring how their supports [[spoiler: and Takumi's fate in ''Conquest'']] show that they're more dysfunctional than they seem; the most rabid Hoshido fans paint Nohrians as nothing more than {{card carrying villain}}s blindly following an Avatar who is little more than a deluded fool so they can have some sort-of petty revenge at these privileged Hoshidans (at worst) or as complete idiots who also blindly follow an Avatar who is little more than a deluded fool so they can appease King Garon (at best).
** Leo's son Forrest is a WholesomeCrossdresser and ActionFashionista who explicitly says he's a guy despite his girlish tastes in clothing '''and openly states that he's uncomfortable whenever he's mistaken as a girl. In supports, he reveals that because he was lonely in the Deeprealm, he took up fashion as a way to find some kind of happiness, so his love of fashion is a coping mechanism as well. Despite this, and the game even discussing this notion not being the case, part of the fandom insists that Forrest is a trans girl.
* ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'': All of the story routes run on GrayAndGrayMorality, with various plotlines being exclusive to one or more detailed in another, and many revelations are exclusive to one route. Due to this, and the habit of most players to default to one route as being "their GoldenEnding", many fans will take their route's storyline as being the one that explains all of the games story as fact, even when other routes throw suggestions that it is not the case. A person playing the Crimson Flower route for example might see [[spoiler:Rhea as hating all of humanity, behind every single problem in Fodlan and evil, due to Edelgard's biased assertions about her]], missing the nuance of the Silver Snow route and the revelations of the Verdant Wind route, while someone on the other routes will see [[spoiler:Edelgard as an EvilOverlord and the BigBad, causing them to miss her DarkAndTroubledPast and reasons for her actions]]. The routes most guilty of this are the Crimson Flower and the Azure Moon route because they are the ones most opposite with each other, and present many views and revelations that are true, but only FromACertainPointOfView.

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** *** In the [[BeachEpisode Summer Scramble]] DLC, Miriel has a conversation with Sumia where, due to the extreme heat, she hallucinates that Sumia is secretly a BitchInSheepsClothing who's been faking being a CuteClumsyGirl all along to lure in men. This is supposed to be a joke, but since Sumia has a ''massive'' amount of DieForOurShip surrounding her, her haters use this conversation as ''legit canonical proof'' that she's really EvilAllAlong.
* ** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'':
** *** The game has two realms with very different sets of morals and very different world-buildings associated to them. Both are supposed to be seen as possessing pros and flaws which are incarnated in their Royal Families: despite their differences they all love the Avatar, [[ChildOfTwoWorlds who belongs to both groups]], with all their hearts and will '''not''' react well to him or her choosing one over another [[spoiler: or, in ''Revelation'', '''not''' choosing a side.]] However, the fans have decided to latch on one Royal Family/Kingdom [[RonTheDeathEater and bash the fuck out of the other]], portraying their chosen "family" as poor dumb innocents whose flaws must be ignored or swept away to fetishize their suffering, while the other one is downgraded to Evil Incarnate and has its pros handwaved. The most rabid Nohr fans creepily reduce the genuinely tragic Nohrian Royal Family into helpless and fetishized victims who should never be called out for their own mistakes, while at the same time whining about the "horrible and privileged" Hoshidan Royal Family and deliberately ignoring how their supports [[spoiler: and Takumi's fate in ''Conquest'']] show that they're more dysfunctional than they seem; the most rabid Hoshido fans paint Nohrians as nothing more than {{card carrying villain}}s blindly following an Avatar who is little more than a deluded fool so they can have some sort-of petty revenge at these privileged Hoshidans (at worst) or as complete idiots who also blindly follow an Avatar who is little more than a deluded fool so they can appease King Garon (at best).
** *** Leo's son Forrest is a WholesomeCrossdresser and ActionFashionista who explicitly says he's a guy despite his girlish tastes in clothing '''and openly states that he's uncomfortable whenever he's mistaken as a girl. In supports, he reveals that because he was lonely in the Deeprealm, he took up fashion as a way to find some kind of happiness, so his love of fashion is a coping mechanism as well. Despite this, and the game even discussing this notion not being the case, part of the fandom insists that Forrest is a trans girl.
* ** ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'': All of the story routes run on GrayAndGrayMorality, with various plotlines being exclusive to one or more detailed in another, and many revelations are exclusive to one route. Due to this, and the habit of most players to default to one route as being "their GoldenEnding", many fans will take their route's storyline as being the one that explains all of the games story as fact, even when other routes throw suggestions that it is not the case. A person playing the Crimson Flower route for example might see [[spoiler:Rhea as hating all of humanity, behind every single problem in Fodlan and evil, due to Edelgard's biased assertions about her]], missing the nuance of the Silver Snow route and the revelations of the Verdant Wind route, while someone on the other routes will see [[spoiler:Edelgard as an EvilOverlord and the BigBad, causing them to miss her DarkAndTroubledPast and reasons for her actions]]. The routes most guilty of this are the Crimson Flower and the Azure Moon route because they are the ones most opposite with each other, and present many views and revelations that are true, but only FromACertainPointOfView.

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* Nominally-Objectivist dictator Andrew Ryan of ''VideoGame/{{BioShock|1}}'' is seen by some fans as a visionary who could do no wrong. No matter what your politics, you'd still have to ignore the fact that he [[CorruptCorporateExecutive went off]] [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans the deep end]] and started murdering anyone who looked at him funny.
* ''VideoGame/BioShockInfinite'' is a heavy {{deconstruction}}[=/=]TakeThat aimed at jingoistic UsefulNotes/ManifestDestiny ideology. This included [[https://girlslikegiants.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/gw-foreign-hordes.jpg an extraordinarily racist in-universe propaganda poster]], which features UsefulNotes/GeorgeWashington holding up a liberty bell to ward off racist caricatures of basically everyone in the world that isn't a WhiteAngloSaxonProtestant, with the caption "For God and Country, It Is Our Holy Duty to Guard Against the Foreign Hordes". This was intended to be over-the-top jingoism, but a Tea Party group [[http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/12/16/tea-party-group-unironically-utilizes-bioshock-infinite-propaganda/#760d38236eba missed the satire]] and unironically shared the poster on their Facebook page. It's also popped up in use among white nationalists and neo-Nazis.

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* ''VideoGame/BioShock'':
**
Nominally-Objectivist dictator Andrew Ryan of ''VideoGame/{{BioShock|1}}'' ''VideoGame/BioShock1'' is seen by some fans as a visionary who could do no wrong. No matter what your politics, you'd still have to ignore the fact that he [[CorruptCorporateExecutive went off]] [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans the deep end]] and started murdering anyone who looked at him funny.
* ** ''VideoGame/BioShockInfinite'' is a heavy {{deconstruction}}[=/=]TakeThat aimed at jingoistic UsefulNotes/ManifestDestiny ideology. This included [[https://girlslikegiants.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/gw-foreign-hordes.jpg an extraordinarily racist in-universe propaganda poster]], which features UsefulNotes/GeorgeWashington holding up a liberty bell to ward off racist caricatures of basically everyone in the world that isn't a WhiteAngloSaxonProtestant, with the caption "For God and Country, It Is Our Holy Duty to Guard Against the Foreign Hordes". This was intended to be over-the-top jingoism, but a Tea Party group [[http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/12/16/tea-party-group-unironically-utilizes-bioshock-infinite-propaganda/#760d38236eba missed the satire]] and unironically shared the poster on their Facebook page. It's also popped up in use among white nationalists and neo-Nazis.
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* ''VideoGame/NamuAmidaButsuUtena'': Despite what the majority of the fandom believes, Ashuku Nyorai is not a DudeLooksLikeALady. She's a trans woman.
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** The series as a whole can be a bit of this, with some fans ignoring that the series satirizes American Exceptionalism and anti-communism during the Cold War in favor of the googie, atomic-age aesthetics associated with America during that period.

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** The series as a whole can be a bit of this, with some fans ignoring that the series satirizes American Exceptionalism and American hypercaptialism and anti-communism during the Cold War that led to the in-universe apocalypse in favor of the googie, atomic-age aesthetics associated with America during that period.period.

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