History Main / CircularReasoning

-->'''Workers:'''
The enemy is poverty\\

* The song "Why We Build The Wall" in the musical ''Theatre/{{Hadestown}}'' serves as a motivation song for the workers way down Hadestown. It gives them a reason as to why they are working so hard every day and why they're never done. In the form of Hades, the king of the underworld, asking a question and the workers [[CallandResponseSong answering him]], the reasoning unfolds in a not-so-reasonable-way.
-->'''Workers:''' Because we have and they have not\\
Because they want what we have got\\

If A, B, or C has independent proofs that are "outside the loop," it is no longer circular reasoning.

The simplest form of this is a tautology; see also ShapedLikeItself and FamousForBeingFamous. A similar concept is a logic loop, a type of LogicBomb where a series of thoughts leads to itself.

'''Secretary of State''': It's... what they use to make Brawndo!\\

* Axioms are considered self-evidently valid, and thus are accepted as true because they are true. (For example, “A = A” or “The whole is greater than the part.”) This is not fallacious because axioms form the basis for ''other'' logical arguments. We’re not trying to prove the axioms; we’re using them to prove other things.

* In ''Discworld/{{Jingo}}'', the long-lost island of Leshp resurfaces in the sea between Ankh-Morpork and Klatch. Both nations have been at peace for decades and have no reason for conflict, but because Leshp is in such a strategic position and would be a natural staging point ''for'' a conflict, they can't afford to let the other country possess it.
-->'''Vimes:''' So we're supposed to go to war over some rock that's only useful if we have to go to war?
* In ''Discworld/MakingMoney'', this is why The Department of Post Mortem Communications can't be called necromancy:
-->'''Moist:''' So what you are saying is that necromancy is a very bad form of magic performed only by evil wizards, and since you are not evil wizards, [[NoTrueScotsman what you are doing cannot possibly be called necromancy?]]
-->'''Dr. Hicks:''' Yes.
-->'''Moist:''' And what defines an evil wizard?
-->'''Dr. Hicks:''' Well, for a start, doing necromancy.
-->'''Moist:''' And because you're not evil wizards, what you're doing can't be called necromancy.
-->'''Dr. Hicks:''' Exactly!

** In practice, defining terms in such a way as to avoid circularity (without resorting to another language) can be bloomin' hard.

** [[FlameBait And that's all we have]] [[Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment to say about that.]]

* In ''[[Comicbook/XWingSeries Starfighters of Adumar]]'', Wedge points out the use of this trope as he [[{{Deconstruction}} takes apart the concept]] of a ProudWarriorRaceGuy:

* The internment of Japanese prisoners in the US was justified, in part, by General John [=DeWitt=] because "The very fact that no sabotage has taken place to date is a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken."

* In 2016, convicted terrorist Anders Breivik sued the Norwegian government for about everything he disliked since he was imprisoned. The neutral court gave him exactly one win: it is against his human rights to be deprived of human contact while in prison. Norway's explanation? "We can't force people to visit Breivik, so the only people that we can allow to visit Breivik are people that want to do it, but precisely those are the people that ''[[MisaimedFandom really shouldn't]]'' be allowed to visit Anders Breivik."

* In 2016, convicted terrorist Anders Breivik sued the Norwegian government for about everything he disliked since he was imprisoned. The neutral court gave him exactly one win: it is against his human rights to be deprived of human contact while in prison. Norway's explanation? "We can't force people to visit Breivik, so the only people that we can allow to visit Breivik are people that want to do it, but precisely those are the people that [=REALLY SHOULDN'T=] be allowed to visit Anders Breivik."

* As [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=9 this video]] on the nature of fascism points out, while most hierarchical social structures have some kind of reasoning for why the rulers deserve to be in charge (The King was trained since birth to be a ruler, the rich guy invented something useful, etc.) fascism pretty much just says "We deserve to be in charge because, well, [[BecauseISaidSo we just do]]". And while some fascist societies may attempt at a fig leaf of a justification (typically involving some sort of half-baked SocialDarwinism and/or pseudoscience about the "MasterRace") this sort of "reasoning" typically falls apart at the slightest examination.

* On ''Futurama'', Fry says that he is drinking so much coffee because he has a night job, which he needs so he can buy coffee to stay awake for his night job.

* On ''WesternAnimation/Futurama'', Fry says that he is drinking so much coffee because he has a night job, which he needs so he can buy coffee to stay awake for his night job.

* On ''WesternAnimation/Futurama'', Fry says he has to keep drinking coffee because of his night job, and he needs the night job to afford all the coffee he drinks for his night job.

* In ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' it's possible to take down [[spoiler:President Eden by convincing it that it is using circular reasoning when it declares that it is infallible because it was programmed to be. This initiates a LogicBomb that allows the player to convince Eden to self-destruct.]]

-->'''Robot #2:''' ''Do'' we even exist?!
-->'''Train Conductor:''' You see? Its unsafe from a ''philosophical'' point of view.

* Invoked in ''Film/{{Idiocracy}}'' by the Presidential Cabinet members when Joe fruitlessly tries to explain to them why they should stop watering crops with Brawndo (a sports drink):

* As [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=9 this video]] on the nature of fascism points out, while most hierarchical social structures have some kind of reasoning for why the rulers deserve to be in charge (The King was trained since birth to be a ruler, the rich guy invented something useful, the politician was elected in confidence by the masses, etc.) fascism pretty much just says "We deserve to be in charge because, well, [[BecauseISaidSo we just do]]". And while some fascist societies may attempt at a fig leaf of a justification (typically involving some sort of half-baked SocialDarwinism and/or pseudoscience about the "MasterRace") this sort of "reasoning" typically falls apart at the slightest examination.

* As [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=9 this video]] on the nature of fascism points out, while most hierarchical social structures have some kind of reasoning for why the rulers deserve to be in charge (The King was trained since birth to be a ruler, the rich guy invented something useful etc) fascism pretty much just says "We deserve to be in charge because, well, [[BecauseISaidSo we just do"]]. And while some fascist societies may attempt at a fig leaf of a justification (typically involving some sort of half-baked SocialDarwinism and/or pseudoscience about the "MasterRace") this sort of "reasoning" typically falls apart at the slightest examination.

* As this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=9 on the nature of fascism points out, while most hierarchical social structures have some kind of reasoning for why the rulers deserve to be in charge (The King was trained since birth to be a ruler, the rich guy invented something useful etc) fascism pretty much just says "We deserve to be in charge because, well, [[BecauseISaidSo we just do"]]. And while some fascist societies may attempt at a fig leaf of a justification (typically involving some sort of half-baked SocialDarwinism and/or pseudoscience about the "MasterRace") this sort of "reasoning" typically falls apart at the slightest examination.

* As this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=9 on the nature of fascism points out, while most hierarchical social structures have some kind of reasoning for why the rulers deserve to be in charge (The King was trained since birth to be a ruler, the rich guy invented something useful etc) fascism pretty much just says "We deserve to be in charge because, well, [[BecauseISaidSo we just do]]. And while some fascist societies may attempt at a fig leaf of a justification (typically involving some sort of half-baked SocialDarwinism and/or pseudoscience about the "MasterRace") this sort of "reasoning" typically falls apart at the slightest examination.