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** One of the titles of UsefulNotes/ThePope is King of Vatican City, and he's the last absolute monarch in Europe. The Pope is elected by the Cardinals from one of their number, and only once did a son directly succeed his father as Pope: Pope Innocent I and Pope Anastasius respectively, in 401.

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!! Examples:

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* In the ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' mod ''VideoGame/AutumnLeaves'', this is why [[spoiler: Arthur believes that HumansAreBastards because they kill to survive and are savages. Why are they savages? Because they have no knowledge or culture for themselves. If you ask him about the library being used to turn people into cultured human beings, Arthur states that the people of the Mojave don't deserve said knowledge because they are... well, savages. Pointing out this flawed reasoning actually ''fails'' the conversation- you're meant to prove that his paranoid personality core is the root of his problems.]]
* Directly invoked by the UnreliableNarrator in ''FanFic/EquestriaAHistoryRevealed'', in which she intentionally wants to paint Princess Celestia in a bad light. The author states that if Celestia was willing to lie about the Hearth's Warming Eve Paegent first, then she would be willing to lie about the Hearts and Hooves Day legend too, as she would have experience in lying. But if she lied about the Hearts and Hooves Day legend first, then she would clearly also lie about the Hearth's Warming Eve Paegent, as it held much greater significance.

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* In the ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' mod ''VideoGame/AutumnLeaves'', this is why [[spoiler: Arthur [[spoiler:Arthur]] believes that HumansAreBastards HumansAreBastards: because they kill to survive and are savages. Why are they savages? Because they have no knowledge or culture for themselves. If you ask him about the library being used to turn people into cultured human beings, Arthur [[spoiler:Arthur]] states that the people of the Mojave don't deserve said knowledge because they are... well, savages. Pointing out this flawed reasoning actually ''fails'' the conversation- you're meant to prove that his paranoid personality core is the root of his problems.]]
problems.
* ''Fanfic/{{Cain}}'' has Katsuki engaging in this ''constantly''. So far as he's concerned, he's the hottest shit around, a natural choice for All Might's successor thanks to his incredible Quirk and unsurpassable power -- ''clearly'' better than that powerless, Quirkless, ''worthless'' '''Deku'''! Yet he also justifies his IrrationalHatred of Izuku by claiming that Izuku's very ''existence'' [[FeelingOppressedByTheirExistence makes his life utterly hellish]]... even while simultaneously insisting that Izuku's far too weak to actually ''do anything'' to him. To hear him tell it, Izuku is both an evil chessmaster masterfully manipulating everyone around him to ruin Katsuki's life, yet also completely unable to touch him. Which is why Katsuki hates him so much.
* Directly invoked by the UnreliableNarrator in ''FanFic/EquestriaAHistoryRevealed'', ''Fanfic/EquestriaAHistoryRevealed'', in which she intentionally wants to paint Princess Celestia in a bad light. The author states that if Celestia was willing to lie about the Hearth's Warming Eve Paegent first, then she would be willing to lie about the Hearts and Hooves Day legend too, as she would have experience in lying. But if she lied about the Hearts and Hooves Day legend first, then she would clearly also lie about the Hearth's Warming Eve Paegent, as it held much greater significance.



--> '''Probe Ilia:''' The Creator is that which created V'Ger.\\

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--> '''Probe -->'''Probe Ilia:''' The Creator is that which created V'Ger.\\
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* ShapedLikeItself is when something is ''described'' recursively, as in “an orange-colored orange” or “a round circle.” This may indicate vague thinking, but isn’t inherently fallacious since we’re describing rather than proving.

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* ShapedLikeItself is when something is ''described'' recursively, as in “an orange-colored orange” apple-colored apple” or “a round circle.” This may indicate vague thinking, but isn’t inherently fallacious since we’re describing rather than proving.
proving anything.
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* ShapedLikeItself is when something is ''described'' recursively, as in “an orange-colored orange” or “a round circle.” This may indicate vague thinking, but isn’t inherently fallacious since we’re describing rather than proving.
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* In ''VideoGame/RatchetAndClankGoingCommando'', Ratchet and Clank come across a Circular Reasoning logic puzzle [[ContrivedCoincidence in the middle of nowhere inside of a desert cavern.]] The "puzzle" consists of using an upgraded wrench, currently encased in glass, to gain a rock which is also encased in glass, in order to break the glass containing the wrench. Clank is amused by the challenge and briefly tries to deduce how to solve it, but its obvious that since each requires the other, it's impossible without TakingAThirdOption, [[CuttingTheKnot which Ratchet does by using his own wrench]].

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* In ''VideoGame/RatchetAndClankGoingCommando'', Ratchet and Clank come across a Circular Reasoning logic puzzle [[ContrivedCoincidence in the middle of nowhere inside of a desert cavern.]] The "puzzle" consists of using an upgraded wrench, currently encased in glass, to gain a rock which is also encased in glass, in order to break the glass containing the wrench. Clank is amused by the challenge and briefly tries to deduce how to solve it, but its it's obvious that since each requires the other, it's impossible without TakingAThirdOption, [[CuttingTheKnot which Ratchet does by using his own wrench]].
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* In the final installment of ''Franchise/MassEffect'', Shepherd has a chat with "The God Child" in The Citadel, which reveals that The Reapers, a race of ancient synthetic beings, cleanse the galaxy of sapient life above a certain tech threshold about every 50,000 years on the premise that if they didn't, the organic sapients would create synthetic race(s) that would purge all organic life, and each cycle the Reapers got more efficient at pushing the organics in the direction of the tech that mandates their extinction. The extended cut DLC has the option of pointing this circular reasoning out. Succeed, and it's NonStandardGameOver.

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* In the final installment of ''Franchise/MassEffect'', ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'', Shepherd has a chat with "The God Child" in The Citadel, which reveals that The Reapers, a race of ancient synthetic beings, cleanse the galaxy of sapient life above a certain tech threshold about every 50,000 years on the premise that if they didn't, the organic sapients would create synthetic race(s) that would purge all organic life, and each cycle the Reapers got more efficient at pushing the organics in the direction of the tech that mandates their extinction. The extended cut DLC has the option of pointing this circular reasoning out. Succeed, and it's NonStandardGameOver.
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None


* [[SubvertedTrope Subverted]] in ''[[WesternAnimation/OneDroopyKnight]] where at the end Droopy says it's a true story, well, just because it's a true story, except he's right there with the princess and [[DefeatMeansFriendship the dragon he defeated earlier in the picture]] lights his cigar for him. PlayedForLaughs, however, as despite Droopy's fallacious reasoning, he's right there with two other main characters.

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* [[SubvertedTrope Subverted]] in ''[[WesternAnimation/OneDroopyKnight]] ''WesternAnimation/OneDroopyKnight'' where at the end Droopy says it's a true story, well, just because it's a true story, except he's right there with the princess and [[DefeatMeansFriendship the dragon he defeated earlier in the picture]] lights his cigar for him. PlayedForLaughs, however, as despite Droopy's fallacious reasoning, he's right there with two other main characters.
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* [[SubvertedTrope Subverted]] in ''[[WesternAnimation/OneDroopyKnight]] where at the end Droopy says it's a true story, well, just because it's a true story, except he's right there with the princess and [[DefeatMeansFriendship the dragon he defeated earlier in the picture]] lights his cigar for him. PlayedForLaughs, however, as despite Droopy's fallacious reasoning, he's right there with two other main characters.
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* The same policy is played with in ''Literature/TheLaundryFiles'', where the Laundry bosses are more logical. Pinky and Brain are ''required'' to attend Pride every year, thereby proving that their sexuality is not a secret that could be held over them.

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* The same policy below is played with in ''Literature/TheLaundryFiles'', where the Laundry bosses are more logical. Pinky and Brain are ''required'' to attend Pride every year, thereby proving that their sexuality is not a secret that could be held over them.
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The simplest form of this is a tautology (like defining "sports writer" as "a writer who writes about sports".) See also ShapedLikeItself and FamousForBeingFamous. A similar concept is a logic loop, a type of LogicBomb where a series of thoughts leads to itself.

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The simplest form of this is a tautology (like defining "sports writer" as "a writer who writes about sports".) See also ShapedLikeItself and FamousForBeingFamous. A similar concept is a logic loop, a type of LogicBomb where a series of thoughts leads to itself. \n The TautologicalTemplar lives by this trope, assuming that they're inherently good and therefore ''everything'' they say or do is inherently good, too.
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''Moist:''' And because you're not evil wizards, what you're doing can't be called necromancy.\\

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''Moist:''' '''Moist:''' And because you're not evil wizards, what you're doing can't be called necromancy.\\
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index wick


* When Trawn of ''Webcomic/ElectricWonderland'' takes a shortcut to her HomeBase through 4chan's domain, she learns from passers-by that everyone there keeps repeating certain {{Catch Phrase}}s because they're humorous, those Catch Phrases are humorous because everyone there keeps repeating them, and everyone there keeps repeating them because they're humorous.

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* When Trawn of ''Webcomic/ElectricWonderland'' takes a shortcut to her HomeBase through 4chan's domain, she learns from passers-by that everyone there keeps repeating certain {{Catch Phrase}}s catchphrases because they're humorous, those Catch Phrases catchphrases are humorous because everyone there keeps repeating them, and everyone there keeps repeating them because they're humorous.
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[[folder:Advertising]]
* A very literal example in the [[Advertising/PartnershipToEndAddiction Partnership For a Drug Free America]] [=PSA=] "Circles": A man who is locked in a room says "I do coke so I can work longer so I can earn more so I can do more coke" and so on and so forth while walking in a circle before suddenly disappearing.
[[/folder]]

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[[folder: Anime and Manga]]

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[[folder: Anime [[folder:Anime and Manga]]



* In the ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' mod ''VideoGame/AutumnLeaves'', this is why [[spoiler: Arthur believes that HumansAreBastards because they kill to survive and are savages. Why are they savages? Because they have no knowledge or culture for themselves. If you ask him about the library being used to turn people into cultured human beings, Arthur states that the people of the Mojave don't deserve said knowledge because they are... well, savages. Pointing out this flawed reasoning actually ''fails'' the conversation- you're meant to prove that his paranoid personality core is the root of his problems.]]



* In the ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' mod ''VideoGame/AutumnLeaves'', this is why [[spoiler: Arthur believes that HumansAreBastards because they kill to survive and are savages. Why are they savages? Because they have no knowledge or culture for themselves. If you ask him about the library being used to turn people into cultured human beings, Arthur states that the people of the Mojave don't deserve said knowledge because they are... well, savages. Pointing out this flawed reasoning actually ''fails'' the conversation- you're meant to prove that his paranoid personality core is the root of his problems.]]



[[folder:Film]]
* ''Film/{{Idiocracy}}'': Employed by the Presidential Cabinet members when Joe fruitlessly tries to explain to them why they should stop watering crops with Brawndo (a sports drink).
--> '''Attorney General:''' Brawndo's got what plants crave.
--> '''Secretary of Energy:''' Yeah, it's got electrolytes.
--> '''Joe:''' What are electrolytes? Do you even know?
--> '''Secretary of State:''' It's what they use to make Brawndo.
--> '''Joe:''' Yeah, but why do they use them to make Brawndo?
--> '''Secretary of Defense:''' 'Cause Brawndo's got electrolytes.
* ''Film/{{Clue}}'': The blackmail against Mr. Green is that he's gay. He has no issue with it himself, but he'd be fired if his employers (the State Department) found out because they'd view him as a security risk... which he is solely because of that policy. His stating such is met with a quick {{beat}}.

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[[folder:Film]]
* ''Film/{{Idiocracy}}'': Employed by the Presidential Cabinet members when Joe fruitlessly tries to explain to them why they should stop watering crops with Brawndo (a sports drink).
--> '''Attorney General:''' Brawndo's got what plants crave.
--> '''Secretary of Energy:''' Yeah, it's got electrolytes.
--> '''Joe:''' What are electrolytes? Do you even know?
--> '''Secretary of State:''' It's what they use to make Brawndo.
--> '''Joe:''' Yeah, but why do they use them to make Brawndo?
--> '''Secretary of Defense:''' 'Cause Brawndo's got electrolytes.
* ''Film/{{Clue}}'': The blackmail against Mr. Green is that he's gay. He has no issue with it himself, but he'd be fired if his employers (the State Department) found out because they'd view him as a security risk... which he is solely because of that policy. His stating such is met with a quick {{beat}}.
[[folder:Film - Live-Action]]



'''[[IdiotHero Bill and Ted]]''': EXCELLENT! (''air guitar solo'')

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'''[[IdiotHero Bill and Ted]]''': EXCELLENT! (''air ''(air guitar solo'')solo)''
* ''Film/{{Clue}}'': The blackmail against Mr. Green is that he's gay. He has no issue with it himself, but he'd be fired if his employers (the State Department) found out because they'd view him as a security risk... which he is solely because of that policy. His stating such is met with a quick {{beat}}.



* ''Film/{{Idiocracy}}'': Employed by the Presidential Cabinet members when Joe fruitlessly tries to explain to them why they should stop watering crops with Brawndo (a sports drink).
-->'''Attorney General:''' Brawndo's got what plants crave.\\
'''Secretary of Energy:''' Yeah, it's got electrolytes.\\
'''Joe:''' What are electrolytes? Do you even know?\\
'''Secretary of State:''' It's what they use to make Brawndo.\\
'''Joe:''' Yeah, but why do they use them to make Brawndo?\\
'''Secretary of Defense:''' 'Cause Brawndo's got electrolytes.



* Literature/TheLittlePrince encounters a tippler on his way to Earth. When asked why he drinks, the tippler explains that [[DrowningMySorrows he wants to forget]]. Forget what? His shame. And what's he ashamed of? Of drinking. The Prince later meets a businessman who thinks the stars belong to him, and the Prince notes that he reasons in a similar way. The value of owning stars is that they make him rich, and he wants to be rich so he can buy more stars.
* In the ''Literature/NomesTrilogy'' book ''Wings'' (about a certain almost insignificant subset of living things of Florida):
-->But they're the ones who matter. At least, in their opinion. And their opinion is the one that matters. In their opinion.
* Creator/RudyardKipling nodded at it in a darkly humorous way in "The Sleepy Sentinel" (''[[http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_epitaphs.htm Epitaphs of the War]]''):
--> I sleep because I am slain. They slew me because I slept.



--->'''Moist:''' So what you are saying is that necromancy is a very bad form of magic performed only by evil wizards, and since you are not evil wizards, [[NoTrueScotsman what you are doing cannot possibly be called necromancy?]]
--->'''Dr. Hicks:''' Yes.
--->'''Moist:''' And what defines an evil wizard?
--->'''Dr. Hicks:''' Well, for a start, doing necromancy.
--->'''Moist:''' And because you're not evil wizards, what you're doing can't be called necromancy.
--->'''Dr. Hicks:''' Exactly!
* In ''Literature/WakingUpAsASpaceship'', countries discriminate against the artificially created Nekomi race, chase them out of their homes, deny them legal employment, and leave them no option but to turn to crime then use the fact that they're criminals as a result to justify the discrimination in the first place. Kuon, first mate of the protagonist, gets called out on it when Abyssal rescues a Nekomi from space-pirates and Kuon objects, lampshading the circular reasoning.
* In ''[[Literature/XWingSeries Starfighters of Adumar]]'', Wedge points out the use of this trope as he [[{{Deconstruction}} takes apart the concept]] of a ProudWarriorRaceGuy:
-->'''Wedge:''' Circular thinking. I'm honorable because I kill the enemy, and I kill the enemy for the honor. There's nothing there, Cheriss.
* The "Gay people cannot have Government jobs, because they're a security risk, because they could be blackmailed, because gay people cannot have Government jobs" policy listed under RealLife is described by Roy Tappen in ''The Leaky Establishment'' by Creator/DavidLangford. In a ''reducto ad absurdum'' analogy, Tappen points out that if the security men ''start'' with "we find this behaviour suspicious", you can apply the same logic to anything. [[DirtyCommunists Drinking vodka]], for example.

to:

--->'''Moist:''' So what you are saying is that necromancy is a very bad form of magic performed only by evil wizards, and since you are not evil wizards, [[NoTrueScotsman what you are doing cannot possibly be called necromancy?]]
--->'''Dr.
necromancy?]]\\
'''Dr.
Hicks:''' Yes.
--->'''Moist:'''
Yes.\\
'''Moist:'''
And what defines an evil wizard?
--->'''Dr.
wizard?\\
'''Dr.
Hicks:''' Well, for a start, doing necromancy.
--->'''Moist:'''
necromancy.\\
''Moist:'''
And because you're not evil wizards, what you're doing can't be called necromancy.
--->'''Dr.
necromancy.\\
'''Dr.
Hicks:''' Exactly!
* In ''Literature/WakingUpAsASpaceship'', countries discriminate against the artificially created Nekomi race, chase them out of their homes, deny them legal employment, and leave them no option but to turn to crime then use the fact that they're criminals as a result to justify the discrimination in the first place. Kuon, first mate of the protagonist, gets called out on it when Abyssal rescues a Nekomi from space-pirates and Kuon objects, lampshading the circular reasoning.
* In ''[[Literature/XWingSeries Starfighters of Adumar]]'', Wedge points out the use of this trope as he [[{{Deconstruction}} takes apart the concept]] of a ProudWarriorRaceGuy:
-->'''Wedge:''' Circular thinking. I'm honorable because I kill the enemy, and I kill the enemy for the honor. There's nothing there, Cheriss.
* The "Gay people cannot have Government jobs, because they're a security risk, because they could be blackmailed, because gay people cannot have Government jobs" policy listed under RealLife is described by Roy Tappen in ''The Leaky Establishment'' by Creator/DavidLangford. In a ''reducto ad absurdum'' analogy, Tappen points out that if the security men ''start'' with "we find this behaviour suspicious", you can apply the same logic to anything. [[DirtyCommunists Drinking vodka]], for example.
Exactly!



* ''Literature/TheSchoolForGoodMothers'': The mothers are practicing how to talk to their children using [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots robotic dolls]] as proxies. An instructor tells Beth that her voice should be "as light and lovely as a cloud". When Beth asks how does a cloud sound, Ms. Russo says it sounds like a mother. This does not make sense to Beth, but Ms. Russo tells her that [[DontThinkFeel mothering is about a feeling, not about sense]].

to:

* ''Literature/TheSchoolForGoodMothers'': The mothers are practicing how "Gay people cannot have Government jobs, because they're a security risk, because they could be blackmailed, because gay people cannot have Government jobs" policy listed under RealLife is described by Roy Tappen in ''The Leaky Establishment'' by Creator/DavidLangford. In a ''reducto ad absurdum'' analogy, Tappen points out that if the security men ''start'' with "we find this behaviour suspicious", you can apply the same logic to talk anything. [[DirtyCommunists Drinking vodka]], for example.
* Literature/TheLittlePrince encounters a tippler on his way
to Earth. When asked why he drinks, the tippler explains that [[DrowningMySorrows he wants to forget]]. Forget what? His shame. And what's he ashamed of? Of drinking. The Prince later meets a businessman who thinks the stars belong to him, and the Prince notes that he reasons in a similar way. The value of owning stars is that they make him rich, and he wants to be rich so he can buy more stars.
* In the ''Literature/NomesTrilogy'' book ''Wings'' (about a certain almost insignificant subset of living things of Florida):
-->But they're the ones who matter. At least, in
their children using [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots robotic dolls]] as proxies. An instructor tells Beth opinion. And their opinion is the one that her voice should be "as light and lovely as a cloud". When Beth asks how does a cloud sound, Ms. Russo says it sounds like a mother. This does not make sense to Beth, but Ms. Russo tells her that [[DontThinkFeel mothering is about a feeling, not about sense]].matters. In their opinion.



* ''Literature/TheSchoolForGoodMothers'': The mothers are practicing how to talk to their children using [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots robotic dolls]] as proxies. An instructor tells Beth that her voice should be "as light and lovely as a cloud". When Beth asks how does a cloud sound, Ms. Russo says it sounds like a mother. This does not make sense to Beth, but Ms. Russo tells her that [[DontThinkFeel mothering is about a feeling, not about sense]].
* Creator/RudyardKipling nodded at it in a darkly humorous way in "The Sleepy Sentinel" (''[[http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_epitaphs.htm Epitaphs of the War]]''):
--> I sleep because I am slain. They slew me because I slept.



* In ''Literature/WakingUpAsASpaceship'', countries discriminate against the artificially created Nekomi race, chase them out of their homes, deny them legal employment, and leave them no option but to turn to crime then use the fact that they're criminals as a result to justify the discrimination in the first place. Kuon, first mate of the protagonist, gets called out on it when Abyssal rescues a Nekomi from space-pirates and Kuon objects, lampshading the circular reasoning.
* ''Literature/XWingSeries'': In ''Starfighters of Adumar'', Wedge points out the use of this trope as he [[{{Deconstruction}} takes apart the concept]] of a ProudWarriorRaceGuy:
-->'''Wedge:''' Circular thinking. I'm honorable because I kill the enemy, and I kill the enemy for the honor. There's nothing there, Cheriss.



* In ''Series/EightOutOfTenCats Does Series/{{Countdown}}'', while discussing tapeworms, Sean Lock claimed you can only get a tapeworm from pork. When asked where the pigs get them, he responded that they get them from other pigs.
* Subverted in an episode of ''Series/CornerGas''. Brent is convinced to give up coffee, since he only drinks it to stay awake, and he has trouble staying awake because he can't sleep at night, and he can't sleep at night because he drinks so much coffee. Turns out, without coffee he just sleeps ''[[TheSlacker all the time]]'' instead.
* Monroe's dad in ''Series/{{Grimm}}'' when he learns his son's [[MalignedMixedMarriage marrying a Fuchsbau]]. This starts a huge argument, during which Bart starts ranting that mixed marriages destroy families: "It's happening already!" In other words, he disapproves of Monroe marrying Rosalee, because they're having an argument, because he disapproves of Monroe marrying Rosalee.



* In ''Series/{{The Twilight Zone|1959}}'' episode, "Five Characters in Search of an Exit," when the major pounds on the wall, the clown sings, "We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here."[[note]]This line came from a World War 1 song reflecting soldiers' increasing disillusionment with the war, in that they no longer, in fact, knew why they were there.[[/note]]
* Monroe's dad in ''Series/{{Grimm}}'' when he learns his son's [[MalignedMixedMarriage marrying a Fuchsbau]]. This starts a huge argument, during which Bart starts ranting that mixed marriages destroy families: "It's happening already!" In other words, he disapproves of Monroe marrying Rosalee, because they're having an argument, because he disapproves of Monroe marrying Rosalee.



* In ''Series/EightOutOfTenCats Does Series/{{Countdown}}'', while discussing tapeworms, Sean Lock claimed you can only get a tapeworm from pork. When asked where the pigs get them, he responded that they get them from other pigs.
* Subverted in an episode of ''Series/CornerGas''. Brent is convinced to give up coffee, since he only drinks it to stay awake, and he has trouble staying awake because he can't sleep at night, and he can't sleep at night because he drinks so much coffee. Turns out, without coffee he just sleeps ''[[TheSlacker all the time]]'' instead.

to:

* In ''Series/EightOutOfTenCats Does Series/{{Countdown}}'', while discussing tapeworms, Sean Lock claimed you can only get a tapeworm ''Series/{{The Twilight Zone|1959}}'' episode, "Five Characters in Search of an Exit," when the major pounds on the wall, the clown sings, "We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here."[[note]]This line came from pork. When asked where a World War 1 song reflecting soldiers' increasing disillusionment with the pigs get them, he responded war, in that they get them from other pigs.
* Subverted
no longer, in an episode of ''Series/CornerGas''. Brent is convinced to give up coffee, since he only drinks it to stay awake, and he has trouble staying awake because he can't sleep at night, and he can't sleep at night because he drinks so much coffee. Turns out, without coffee he just sleeps ''[[TheSlacker all the time]]'' instead.fact, knew why they were there.[[/note]]



* ''Radio/TheMenFromTheMinistry'': How does Mr. Lamb remember the to read the notes on the blotter? He has a notebook in which he writes notes to look at the blotter. How does he remember to look at the notebook? He has a reminder on the blotter.



* ''Radio/TheMenFromTheMinistry'': How does Mr. Lamb remember the to read the notes on the blotter? He has a notebook in which he writes notes to look at the blotter. How does he remember to look at the notebook? He has a reminder on the blotter.



* In ''VideoGame/RatchetAndClankGoingCommando'', Ratchet and Clank come across a Circular Reasoning logic puzzle [[ContrivedCoincidence in the middle of nowhere inside of a desert cavern.]] The "puzzle" consists of using an upgraded wrench, currently encased in glass, to gain a rock which is also encased in glass, in order to break the glass containing the wrench. Clank is amused by the challenge and briefly tries to deduce how to solve it, but its obvious that since each requires the other, it's impossible without TakingAThirdOption, [[CuttingTheKnot which Ratchet does by using his own wrench]].
* In ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' it's possible to take down an enemy non-lethally by pointing out that they're using this fallacy. [[spoiler:President Eden can be convinced by the player that he's using circular reasoning when he declares that he's infallible because he was programmed to be. As the player points out in this scenario, Eden's argument is "I know because I know." This initiates a LogicBomb that allows the player to convince Eden to self-destruct.]]



-->'''Vella:''' If the train isn't a runaway until your hero arrives, and your hero is missing, then what's the problem?
-->'''Train Conductor:''' If the Young Hero never arrives, then we have no purpose.
-->'''Robot #1:''' [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman Why do we exist?!]]
-->'''Robot #2:''' Do we even exist?!
-->'''Train Conductor:''' You see? It's unsafe from a philosophical point of view.

to:

-->'''Vella:''' If the train isn't a runaway until your hero arrives, and your hero is missing, then what's the problem?
-->'''Train
problem?\\
'''Train
Conductor:''' If the Young Hero never arrives, then we have no purpose.
-->'''Robot
purpose.\\
'''Robot
#1:''' [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman Why do we exist?!]]
-->'''Robot
exist?!]]\\
'''Robot
#2:''' Do we even exist?!
-->'''Train
exist?!\\
'''Train
Conductor:''' You see? It's unsafe from a philosophical point of view.view.
* In ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' it's possible to take down an enemy non-lethally by pointing out that they're using this fallacy. [[spoiler:President Eden can be convinced by the player that he's using circular reasoning when he declares that he's infallible because he was programmed to be. As the player points out in this scenario, Eden's argument is "I know because I know." This initiates a LogicBomb that allows the player to convince Eden to self-destruct.]]
* In the final installment of ''Franchise/MassEffect'', Shepherd has a chat with "The God Child" in The Citadel, which reveals that The Reapers, a race of ancient synthetic beings, cleanse the galaxy of sapient life above a certain tech threshold about every 50,000 years on the premise that if they didn't, the organic sapients would create synthetic race(s) that would purge all organic life, and each cycle the Reapers got more efficient at pushing the organics in the direction of the tech that mandates their extinction. The extended cut DLC has the option of pointing this circular reasoning out. Succeed, and it's NonStandardGameOver.



* In the final installment of ''Franchise/MassEffect'', Shepherd has a chat with "The God Child" in The Citadel, which reveals that The Reapers, a race of ancient synthetic beings, cleanse the galaxy of sapient life above a certain tech threshold about every 50,000 years on the premise that if they didn't, the organic sapients would create synthetic race(s) that would purge all organic life, and each cycle the Reapers got more efficient at pushing the organics in the direction of the tech that mandates their extinction. The extended cut DLC has the option of pointing this circular reasoning out. Succeed, and it's NonStandardGameOver.

to:

* In the final installment of ''Franchise/MassEffect'', Shepherd has a chat with "The God Child" in The Citadel, which reveals that The Reapers, a race of ancient synthetic beings, cleanse the galaxy of sapient life above a certain tech threshold about every 50,000 years on the premise that if they didn't, the organic sapients would create synthetic race(s) that would purge all organic life, ''VideoGame/RatchetAndClankGoingCommando'', Ratchet and each cycle the Reapers got more efficient at pushing the organics Clank come across a Circular Reasoning logic puzzle [[ContrivedCoincidence in the direction middle of nowhere inside of a desert cavern.]] The "puzzle" consists of using an upgraded wrench, currently encased in glass, to gain a rock which is also encased in glass, in order to break the tech glass containing the wrench. Clank is amused by the challenge and briefly tries to deduce how to solve it, but its obvious that mandates their extinction. The extended cut DLC has since each requires the option of pointing this circular reasoning out. Succeed, and other, it's NonStandardGameOver.impossible without TakingAThirdOption, [[CuttingTheKnot which Ratchet does by using his own wrench]].



* Shows up in one episode of ''WebAnimation/PuffinForest''. The town council and guards look the other way in regards to the black market, because the trade of illegal magic items is the lifeblood of the town. Ben's character points out that there is not much point in there being a black market if the town council doesn't oppose it, and they could just make the trade legal, but the Inquisitor argues that shutting down the black market would ruin the town. In other words, the black market is the lifeblood of the town, and they can't legalize it because then there wouldn't be a black market anymore.



* Shows up in one episode of ''WebAnimation/PuffinForest''. The town council and guards look the other way in regards to the black market, because the trade of illegal magic items is the lifeblood of the town. Ben's character points out that there is not much point in there being a black market if the town council doesn't oppose it, and they could just make the trade legal, but the Inquisitor argues that shutting down the black market would ruin the town. In other words, the black market is the lifeblood of the town, and they can't legalize it because then there wouldn't be a black market anymore.



* ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'':
** Though she ultimately turns out to be right, Elan points out that Haley is using circular logic against Tarquin: She won't tell him that lives are at stake concerning the information she wants because she doesn't trust him, and she doesn't trust him because he's withholding information when lives are at stake. [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html Haley is not pleased]] at having been out-logicked by TheDitz.
** Another instance, when Grubwiggler accuses the Thieves' Guild of robbing him even though he pays them protection:
-->'''Crystal:''' HEY! Our thieves are only allowed to steal from people our thieves are allowed to steal from!\\
'''Bozzok:''' My colleague's circular logic notwithstanding, she is correct.
* In ''Webcomic/TheNonAdventuresOfWonderella'': Wonderella and Dr. Shark use this when confronting an high school student about [[DrugsAreBad the dangers of marijuana]]:
--> '''Wonderella:''' Marijuana is ''illegal'', young man.
--> '''Student:''' But, ''why?''
--> '''Wonderella:''' Because it leads to harder drugs [...]
--> '''Student:''' Who says I ''have'' to try harder drugs?
--> '''Wonderella:''' Your ''dealer''. [...]
--> '''Student:''' But why do I need to go to a dealer?
--> '''Dr. Shark:''' Because, young man, Marijuana is ''illegal.''
--> '''Student:''' [[LampshadeHanging Hmm, I guess it makes sense when you put it like that.]]

to:

* ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'':
** Though she ultimately turns out to be right, Elan points out that Haley is using circular logic against Tarquin: She won't tell him that lives are at stake concerning the information she wants
Knowingly used in ''Webcomic/BasicInstructions''.
-->'''Scott''': "They were better,
because she doesn't trust him, and she doesn't trust him because he's withholding information when lives are at stake. [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html Haley is not pleased]] at having been out-logicked by TheDitz.
** Another instance, when Grubwiggler accuses the Thieves' Guild
they were superior." That's a good point, on account of robbing him even though he pays them protection:
-->'''Crystal:''' HEY! Our thieves are only allowed to steal from people our thieves are allowed to steal from!\\
'''Bozzok:''' My colleague's circular logic notwithstanding, she is correct.
* In ''Webcomic/TheNonAdventuresOfWonderella'': Wonderella and Dr. Shark use this when confronting an high school student about [[DrugsAreBad the dangers of marijuana]]:
--> '''Wonderella:''' Marijuana is ''illegal'', young man.
--> '''Student:''' But, ''why?''
--> '''Wonderella:''' Because it leads to harder drugs [...]
--> '''Student:''' Who says I ''have'' to try harder drugs?
--> '''Wonderella:''' Your ''dealer''. [...]
--> '''Student:''' But why do I need to go to a dealer?
--> '''Dr. Shark:''' Because, young man, Marijuana is ''illegal.''
--> '''Student:''' [[LampshadeHanging Hmm, I guess it makes sense when you put it like that.]]
its quality.



* In ''Webcomic/{{Freefall}}'', Florence is given a direct order to [[GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul like the mayor, trust her, and want to make her happy]]. [[http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2700/fc02615.htm Much later,]] when asked if she wants the order canceled, she refuses, stating that she trusts the mayor and removing the order would not make her happy. It's removed anyway, on the grounds that she's "obviously hit a limit in self-diagnostics".



* Knowingly used in ''Webcomic/BasicInstructions''.
-->'''Scott''': "They were better, because they were superior." That's a good point, on account of its quality.
* ''Webcomic/{{xkcd}}''
** In [[http://xkcd.com/1052 "Every Major's Terrible"]] song, a theology major can be seen writing a proof that goes "X, therefore there exists X".
** [[https://xkcd.com/2451 "AI Methodology"]]: The research group's AI-based methodology has been questioned, but they used AI to prove it's a good methodology.



* In ''Webcomic/{{Freefall}}'', Florence is given a direct order to [[GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul like the mayor, trust her, and want to make her happy]]. [[http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2700/fc02615.htm Much later,]] when asked if she wants the order canceled, she refuses, stating that she trusts the mayor and removing the order would not make her happy. It's removed anyway, on the grounds that she's "obviously hit a limit in self-diagnostics".

to:

* In ''Webcomic/{{Freefall}}'', Florence ''Webcomic/TheNonAdventuresOfWonderella'': Wonderella and Dr. Shark use this when confronting an high school student about [[DrugsAreBad the dangers of marijuana]]:
-->'''Wonderella:''' Marijuana
is given a direct order ''illegal'', young man.\\
'''Student:''' But, ''why?''\\
'''Wonderella:''' Because it leads
to [[GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul harder drugs [...]\\
'''Student:''' Who says I ''have'' to try harder drugs?\\
'''Wonderella:''' Your ''dealer''. [...]\\
'''Student:''' But why do I need to go to a dealer?\\
'''Dr. Shark:''' Because, young man, Marijuana is ''illegal.''\\
'''Student:''' [[LampshadeHanging Hmm, I guess it makes sense when you put it
like that.]]
* ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'':
** Though she ultimately turns out to be right, Elan points out that Haley is using circular logic against Tarquin: She won't tell him that lives are at stake concerning
the mayor, trust her, and want to make her happy]]. [[http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2700/fc02615.htm Much later,]] when asked if information she wants because she doesn't trust him, and she doesn't trust him because he's withholding information when lives are at stake. [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html Haley is not pleased]] at having been out-logicked by TheDitz.
** Another instance, when Grubwiggler accuses
the order canceled, Thieves' Guild of robbing him even though he pays them protection:
-->'''Crystal:''' HEY! Our thieves are only allowed to steal from people our thieves are allowed to steal from!\\
'''Bozzok:''' My colleague's circular logic notwithstanding,
she refuses, stating is correct.
* ''Webcomic/{{xkcd}}''
** In [[http://xkcd.com/1052 "Every Major's Terrible"]] song, a theology major can be seen writing a proof
that she trusts the mayor and removing the order would not make her happy. It's removed anyway, on the grounds that she's "obviously hit goes "X, therefore there exists X".
** [[https://xkcd.com/2451 "AI Methodology"]]: The research group's AI-based methodology has been questioned, but they used AI to prove it's
a limit in self-diagnostics".good methodology.



* ''WesternAnimation/{{Arthur}}'': In "Arthur's Big Hit" when Sue Ellen spots Binky hiding from Arthur in the bushes, she asks what he's doing there. Binky answers that he's avoiding Arthur so he doesn't have to hit him. Sue Ellen then asks why Binky wants to hit Arthur, to which Binky replies that he ''doesn't'', which is why he's avoiding him. Since Binky never explains to her that his friends have threatened to kick him out of the club if he doesn't hit Arthur the next time he sees him, Sue Ellen is left confused by what appears to be this trope.
-->'''Sue Ellen:''' Hmm. ''(walks away)'' Boys...



* On ''WesternAnimation/{{Futurama}}'', Fry says that he is drinking so much coffee because he has a night job, which he needs so he can buy coffee to stay awake for his night job.



* On ''WesternAnimation/{{Futurama}}'', Fry says that he is drinking so much coffee because he has a night job, which he needs so he can buy coffee to stay awake for his night job.



* ''WesternAnimation/{{Arthur}}'': In "Arthur's Big Hit" when Sue Ellen spots Binky hiding from Arthur in the bushes, she asks what he's doing there. Binky answers that he's avoiding Arthur so he doesn't have to hit him. Sue Ellen then asks why Binky wants to hit Arthur, to which Binky replies that he ''doesn't'', which is why he's avoiding him. Since Binky never explains to her that his friends have threatened to kick him out of the club if he doesn't hit Arthur the next time he sees him, Sue Ellen is left confused by what appears to be this trope.
-->'''Sue Ellen:''' Hmm. ''[walks away]'' Boys...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->'''Attorney General''': Brawndo's got what plants crave.\\
'''Secretary of Energy''': Yeah, it's got electrolytes.\\
'''Joe''': What are electrolytes? Do you even know?\\
'''Secretary of State''': It's...what they use to make Brawndo!\\
'''Joe''': Yeah, but ''why'' do they use them to make Brawndo?\\
'''Secretary of Defense''': 'Cause Brawndo's got electrolytes.

to:

->'''Attorney General''': General:''' Brawndo's got what plants crave.\\
'''Secretary of Energy''': Energy:''' Yeah, it's got electrolytes.\\
'''Joe''': '''Joe:''' What are electrolytes? Do you even know?\\
'''Secretary of State''': It's...State:''' It's... what they use to make Brawndo!\\
'''Joe''': '''Joe:''' Yeah, but ''why'' do they use them to make Brawndo?\\
'''Secretary of Defense''': Defense:''' 'Cause Brawndo's got electrolytes.



* In ''[[Literature/{{Wings}} Nomes Trilogy]]'' (about a certain almost insignificant subset of living things of Florida):
--> But they're the ones who matter. At least, in their opinion. And their opinion is the one that matters. In their opinion.

to:

* In ''[[Literature/{{Wings}} Nomes Trilogy]]'' the ''Literature/NomesTrilogy'' book ''Wings'' (about a certain almost insignificant subset of living things of Florida):
--> But -->But they're the ones who matter. At least, in their opinion. And their opinion is the one that matters. In their opinion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* Subverted in an episode of ''Series/CornerGas''. Brent is convinced to give up coffee, since he only drinks it to stay awake, and he has trouble staying awake because he can't sleep at night, and he can't sleep at night because he drinks so much coffee. Turns out, without coffee he just sleeps ''[[TheSlacker all the time]]'' instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* In the final installment of ''Franchise/MassEffect'', Shepherd has a chat with "The God Child" in The Citadel, which reveals that The Reapers, a race of ancient synthetic beings, cleanse the galaxy of sapient life above a certain tech threshold about every 50,000 years on the premise that if they didn't, the organic sapients would create synthetic race(s) that would purge all organic life, and each cycle the Reapers got more efficient at pushing the organics in the direction of the tech that mandates their extinction. The extended cut DLC has the option of pointing this circular reasoning out. Succeed, and it's NonStandardGameOver.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


--> '''Probe!Ilia:''' The Creator is that which created V'Ger.\\

to:

--> '''Probe!Ilia:''' '''Probe Ilia:''' The Creator is that which created V'Ger.\\



'''Probe!Ilia:''' V'Ger is that which seeks the Creator.

to:

'''Probe!Ilia:''' '''Probe Ilia:''' V'Ger is that which seeks the Creator.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Literature/StartingANewLifeForTheDiscaradedAllRounder'' uses this line of reasoning when Roa's home country tries to explain how its apprenticeship system is "flawless." Mentor was once an apprentice.-> Mentor was certified. -> Mentor gets his own apprentice. -> Apprentice doesn't get certified. -> Apprentice winds up in a slum, begging for coin or food because no other mentor will take him. -> Apprentice had no talent. If the apprentice had talent, mentor would have certified him. The top brass ''utterly refuses'' to acknowledge the flaws in the steps of this flowchart. First, just because you were a good apprentice doesn't guarantee that you're going to be a good mentor. Second, just because the apprentice wasn't certified by one mentor, doesn't mean he has ''no talent at all'' and maybe he would have learned better with another mentor, or even a mentor in a different field, if another mentor could take him in, instead of treating him as radioactive for "quitting" or "failing" because the last didn't certify him. Lastly, "having no talent" isn't the only reason an apprentice might not be certified by a mentor. As the case of Roa himself demonstrates, ''there is no oversight'' and there's nothing stopping the mentor from acts of malice against the apprentice, including denying certification just to abuse and exploit the apprentice, and then using the very same stigma to unilaterally expel the apprentice at the first convenience.

to:

* ''Literature/StartingANewLifeForTheDiscaradedAllRounder'' ''Literature/StartingANewLifeForTheDiscardedAllRounder'' uses this line of reasoning when Roa's home country tries to explain how its apprenticeship system is "flawless." Mentor was once an apprentice.-> Mentor was certified. -> Mentor gets his own apprentice. -> Apprentice doesn't get certified. -> Apprentice winds up in a slum, begging for coin or food because no other mentor will take him. -> Apprentice had no talent. If the apprentice had talent, mentor would have certified him. The top brass ''utterly refuses'' to acknowledge the flaws in the steps of this flowchart. First, just because you were a good apprentice doesn't guarantee that you're going to be a good mentor. Second, just because the apprentice wasn't certified by one mentor, doesn't mean he has ''no talent at all'' and maybe he would have learned better with another mentor, or even a mentor in a different field, if another mentor could take him in, instead of treating him as radioactive for "quitting" or "failing" because the last didn't certify him. Lastly, "having no talent" isn't the only reason an apprentice might not be certified by a mentor. As the case of Roa himself demonstrates, ''there is no oversight'' and there's nothing stopping the mentor from acts of malice against the apprentice, including denying certification just to abuse and exploit the apprentice, and then using the very same stigma to unilaterally expel the apprentice at the first convenience.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ''Literature/StartingANewLifeForTheDiscaradedAllRounder'' uses this line of reasoning when Roa's home country tries to explain how its apprenticeship system is "flawless." Mentor was once an apprentice.-> Mentor was certified. -> Mentor gets his own apprentice. -> Apprentice doesn't get certified. -> Apprentice winds up in a slum, begging for coin or food because no other mentor will take him. -> Apprentice had no talent. If the apprentice had talent, mentor would have certified him. The top brass ''utterly refuses'' to acknowledge the flaws in the steps of this flowchart. First, just because you were a good apprentice doesn't guarantee that you're going to be a good mentor. Second, just because the apprentice wasn't certified by one mentor, doesn't mean he has ''no talent at all'' and maybe he would have learned better with another mentor, or even a mentor in a different field, if another mentor could take him in, instead of treating him as radioactive for "quitting" or "failing" because the last didn't certify him. Lastly, "having no talent" isn't the only reason an apprentice might not be certified by a mentor. As the case of Roa himself demonstrates, ''there is no oversight'' and there's nothing stopping the mentor from acts of malice against the apprentice, including denying certification just to abuse and exploit the apprentice, and then using the very same stigma to unilaterally expel the apprentice at the first convenience.

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