History Main / BeyondRedemption

** [[spoiler: Hela, Odin's oldest daughter, is a different story. During Thor and Loki's childhood in the beginning of the first film, they were at least told by their father that seeking war should be a last resort. Odin probably never taught Hela this during ''her'' childhood, as she was essential in his past conquests prior to becoming a benevolent ruler. In hindsight, one of the reasons why she wants to continue her role as a bloodthirsty conqueror because she doesn't know how to be [[SacrificedBasicSkillforAwesomeTraining anything]] [[CripplingOverspecialization else]]. Compared to Loki, she was a lost cause for Thor long before he knew she even ''existed'']].

** Elsa even comes a snow memory of her deceased grandfather King Runeard, who is revealed to be an EvilColonalist who tried to the subjugate the Northuldrans by building a dam to weaken their resources, all just to satisfy his hatred towards magic which the Northuldrans are connected to. Upon learning this, Elsa coldly abandons whatever respect she had for Runeard, declaring him to be despicable for letting his fear of magic overwhelm his mind. Even Anna comes up to the same mindset when Elsa sent over a message about Runeard's true nature in the form of a snow memory of Runeard murdering the Northuldran leader, similar to how Hans tried to murder Elsa.

** With the exception of Jaina Proudmoore, this is everyone's opinion on Arthas, [[FaceHeelTurn the former paladin turned Lich King]]. A quest in the ''Wrath of the Lich King'' expansion has [[PlayerCharacter the Champion]] discover that Arthas had removed his own heart and discarded it into the depths below the Icecrown Citadel. When Tirion Fordring is informed of this, he and the Champion infiltrate the Icecrown Citadel to find the heart and see if there is a chance that Arthas could be redeemed. When Arthas sees through their disguise, Arthas dares Fordring to look into his heart to see if he truly is redeemable. When Fordring does, he destroys the heart with the Ash Bringer and escapes the Citadel with the Champion before Arthas can kill them. Fordring informs the Champion that he destroyed the heart because when he looked into it, he saw that there was nothing left of Arthas to save.

* In ''Fanfic/AllThatGlittersOthellia'', Elsa believes this about Hans, seeing him as somebody filled with so much hatred that it's impossible for him to redeem himself.
* Invoked in ''Fanfic/TheAmazingSpiderManTruePurpose'' when Spider-Man is killed by Magik during the events of ''ComicBook/AvengersVsXMen'', with several characters making it clear that they won't forgive the X-Men for the wall-crawler's death, to the extent that Valerie Richards is shown contemplating making weapons to go after the team even after the crisis is over; only the fact that various higher powers brought Spider-Man back to life guarantees that they won't outright condemn the X-Men for what happened.
* ''Fanfic/ApotheosisMHA'' makes this a matter of opinion. While some, like All Might and Mirio, see Izuku as a TragicVillain who needs to face justice for his crimes, but is still capable of redeeming himself, others see him as completely past the point of no return, such as Gran Torino and Katsuki. Note that All Might and Katsuki are both especially biased on this front, as both played a part in Izuku becoming a VillainProtagonist in the first place; All Might [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone blames himself for this]], while Katsuki [[NeverMyFault refuses to admit any fault]] beyond thinking that he should have [[BarbaricBully bullied Izuku HARDER]].
* ''Blog/BetterBonesAU'': Part of Gray Wing's CharacterDevelopment involves xem realizing that xeir brother will never change for the better.

* ''Fanfic/ADiplomaticVisit'':
** In the fourth story, ''The Diplomat's Life'', chapter 7 has Starswirl reveal that he firmly believes in this after finding out Aria and Sonata have been welcomed back to Equestria, much to Twilight's annoyance. While she admits that it's true for ''some'' villains (like Tirek, the Storm King, and Sombra), she and her friends point out that they've already redeemed Luna, Discord, Trixie, Tempest, and Starlight (and the aforementioned siren pair), and she isn't willing to believe that the Pony of Shadows can't be saved. Starswirl reluctantly admits she may have a point, but still thinks he's right in this case.
** The epilogue reveals that of the two villains who remained alive and not mentally broken, one of them was confirmed as this - [[spoiler:Cozy Glow, even after her body was aged up, remained a sociopath and was ultimately sentenced to [[TakenForGranite permanent petrification]]]].
* ''Fanfic/DownAndOut'': Simon defines himself as this. Part of the reason he wants to die is that he knows no matter how hard he works, his number is so impossibly high that he'll never get off the train. Amelia later reveals that the train itself has come to the same conclusion, which is why the Ghom lurks outside the Mall Car. It's there ''solely'' to kill Simon.
-->'''Simon''': Look at me, Grace. Even if this 'self-help train' decided I was worth helping, I'd be dead before my number cleared my forehead! What life is there for me beyond this!?
* ''Fanfic/EnneaSeries'': In ''For Our Sakes'', the Voices accepted that all of the members of the League from the BadFuture they came from were irredeemable, as they rejected every attempt to offer them help and understanding. As a result, the Voices are less than enthusiastic about trying to help the modern-day League.
* In ''Fanfic/TheFaithChronicles'', Quentin Travers, head of the Watchers' Council, has this opinion about Faith in. On the flip side, the Scoobies come to regard [[spoiler:Kennedy]] this way after the battle with Glory. By contrast, someone realizing Faith isn't this is a good indication of CharacterDevelopment.
* In ''Fanfic/TheFlashSentryChronicles'', Grand Hoof had spent years trying to get his son, Doom Raizer, to accept responsibility for his actions. However, due to his neglect after Live Wire, Grand's wife, and Doom's mother, had passed away, Doom [[NeverMyFault refuses to take responsibility for his actions]], and blames it all on Grand. Not helping matters was that Grand didn't try to comfort him after his wife Daisy had died, which led Doom to try and build a weapon of mass destruction that he insisted could have been used to protect Equestria. When Grand took Flash Sentry as his apprentice instead of his grandson, Lightning Blitz, and gave the celestic gear Lightbringer to him, Doom saw this as the final straw and sought out an artifact that would grant him extraordinary power to get revenge. During their battle in season three, Grand tried to reason with Doom, but Doom refused to hear him out, saying that it was too late to make amends now. After Flash, along with Lightning Blitz defeat him, Grand tells Doom he's done trying to reach out to him, and that he's proud to have his friends and his grandson, even if he has to leave him behind.

* ''Fanfic/TheNegotiationsVerse'': ''Fallen'' has MultipleEndings; two of them make clear that Princess Celestia's actions have pushed her far beyond this point:
** In the "Divine Justice" route, [[spoiler:Harmony]] makes no effort to make Celestia realize the error of her ways; so far as they are concerned, if she was ''capable'' of recognizing that, she would have done so on her own ''long'' before now. As a result, they [[spoiler:turn her [[TakenForGranite to stone]] and seal her statue into the center of the Earth, [[AndIMustScream still fully aware and unable to die]] until the Earth itself does]].
** In "Harmony's Chosen", [[spoiler:Harmony ascends Fluttershy into an alicorn, working through her]] to strip Celestia and Twilight [[BroughtDownToNormal of their powers]]. While Twilight survives this process, the much older Celestia goes through NoImmortalInertia as a result.

* ''Fanfic/PokemonHarmonyAndChaos:'' Grand Hoof tries to help his grandson Lightning Blitz change for the better since Lightning became bitter and [[MightMakesRight obsessed with power]] after watching Grand lose his championship title to Shining Armor. But every time Grand has reached out to Lightning, Grand has been rejected and insulted, with Lightning only seeming to get worse with each attempt. The final straw for Grand is seeing Lighting put his Pokémon through TrainingFromHell before the semi-finals of the Equestria League. This finally convinces Grand that he can't change Lightning, and he's done torturing himself by offering the olive branch. [[spoiler:Once Lightning loses to Flash Sentry in the finals of the League though, he has his entire worldview shattered, and when he sees his grandfather again he acknowledges he still has a lot to learn and humbly asks if he would be willing to help teach him. Grand accepts, if Lightning can keep up with him, starting Lightning down the path of redemption.]]
-->'''Grand:''' Fine. I understand. I've tried to reach out to you and help, but you reject me every time. I... I can't keep doing this to myself. When you wanna put what happened in the past, you know where to find me. But until then, I wash my hands of you.
* In the ''Fanfic/PonyPOVSeries'', a nameless pegasus filly [[spoiler:who is implied by WordOfGod to be Cozy Glow]], had created the Concept Killing Spear, a weapon that [[ImmortalBreaker can kill the Alicorns and the Dragonequase]], and used this Spear to kill Cupid. However, it not only killed Cupid, it [[RetGone erased him from history, including millions of people whom he was responsible for their births]]. When the filly was put on trial, the Father of the Alicorns showed her what would have happened if she used it on any other Alicorn or Dragonequause, but no matter what she was shown, the filly refused to see the error of her ways and threatened to use it again once she was freed. This made the Father of the Alicorns tell Cupid's mother, Venus, to DoWithHimAsYouWill, and as she banished the filly to Tartarus, the filly didn't even bother to try to feign remorse or regret for her actions.
* ''Fanfic/RecommencerMiraculousLadybug'': According to Gabriel's [[spoiler:former mentor Cecily]], he reached the point of no return long ago. Something they regularly remind him of whenever he visits the MentalWorld inside the Butterfly Brooch, which has been [[FisherKing corrupted]] by how he's abused its powers.
* ''Fanfic/SpectacularSeven'':
** During the fight scene at prom in Volume II, Twilight ultimately concedes this about TheDragon she's most familiar with after what's happened. As a result, Twilight says that she hopes The Dragon will turn over a new leaf but admits that such a thing is a long shot at best. [[spoiler:Moondancer not only pulls a FaceHeelTurn but tries to kill the Spectacular Seven. This is due to Moondancer's jealousy of Sunset Shimmer and [[IJustWantToBeSpecial the desire to be special]]. Even then, Moondancer ''is'' special, since she has [[{{Lunacy}} powers over moonlight]]. But she CantCatchUp to Sunset and has become a {{yandere}} who is willing to kill for Twilight's affection. Moondancer even admits she's DrivenByEnvy during a VillainousBreakdown. On top of that, BigBad Tempest Shadow shows up after Moondancer has been defeated to put all doubt to rest that Moondancer is working for the bad guys. While Artemis hopes that Moondancer will see the light, Twilight tacitly admits that she's not holding her breath on it.]]
** During the fight scene at the wedding in Volume III, some of the CoDragons feel this way about the others. [[spoiler:Sonata Dusk and Aria Blaze both turn their backs on Tempest Shadow's plan. Sonata turns because [[GoodFeelsGood she likes how things have been progressing with Pinkie Pie]], and Aria turns because Adagio orders Aria to attack Sonata, which [[EvenEvilHasStandards Aria refuses to do since while she may be a bad girl, she's not going to attack her sister]]. Then, Tempest says "ScrewThisImOuttaHere" and leaves Adagio to take the fall for the villains. Even though Adagio lapses into StunnedSilence for a moment, she flees rather than turn good. Both Aria and Sonata then admit that Adagio has always been like this, adding that they don't believe that Adagio will ever see the light. This lack of a HeelFaceTurn for Adagio was [[ChekhovsGun set up before]], with Sonata and Aria finding things to like about the Spectacular Seven, but Adagio refused to see things eye-to-eye with Applejack.]]

* In ''Anime/MonsterRancher'', [[TheTeam The Searchers]] are looking for [[BigGood the Phoenix]] so that he may [[HeelFaceTurn turn all the evil monsters into good monsters]]. Some of the Searchers firmly believe even BigBad Moo will be redeemed by the Phoenix and state this multiple times, while the others aren't convinced. Later on, when the Searchers first encounter Moo, they find out through a CurbStompBattle that Moo is legitimately pure evil. After this, those who thought Moo could be redeemed now agree he's beyond any sort of redemption. Even after the Phoenix turns all bad monsters into good monsters, Moo is ''still'' a heartless villain. One of the main goals of the last season is killing him for good because the heroes know that Moo can't be redeemed.

* ''ComicBook/StarWarsDarthVader'' and its prequel ''ComicBook/DarthVaderDarkLordOfTheSith'' reveal its lead character as this through his various exploits. Though viewed as TheDreaded to the galaxy at large, he feels that [[Film/RevengeOfTheSith his various actions]] have made him unfit to be redeemed, and serving the Emperor is the only way he can aptly punish himself.

''[BeatPanel, as Joker seriously considers it]''\\

* ''ComicBook/TeenageMutantNinjaTurtlesMirage'': In the short story "Swan Song," taking place in the future, Radical, who had become Leonardo's love interest by that time, is attacked by her ArchEnemy Complete Carnage, who [[NeckSnap snaps her neck]] right in front of Leo. Many years later, Leo, having become a Buddhist monk, tracks Carnage down to Hong Kong, where he has kidnapped several people, intending to forgive him for Radical's murder and free the hostages. During the ensuing fight, Leo tries to persuade Carnage to give up his evil ways and learn to understand the true value of life... but when Carnage gleefully kills one of his hostages and mocks Radical's death to Leo's face, Leo snaps, declares that Carnage is irredeemable, and [[HalfTheManHeUsedToBe slices him clean in two]]; that being said, Leo's killing Carnage in a rage is depicted as a MomentOfWeakness on his part.

* ''TabletopGame/InNomine'': Possibly. While Archangels can fall, it's unknown if Demon Princes can ascend. Certainly, none ever has, or even got close -- those Princes who've become severely dissonant (Legion, for example, is believed to have been badly Dissonant when he died) have been of the "still evil, but now batshit insane" flavor and not the "realized they were wrong about being evil" flavor -- and it's not clear how an Archangel could patron a being of such power even if you could find one willing to risk it. It might be the case that a group of Archangels or the Seraphim Council could do the job, but it's equally possible that the Princes have made their bed barring direct divine intervention.

* In [[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragonsFifthEdition the Fifth Edition of]] ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', the Oath of Redemption is one of the Paladin's subclasses, which centers around redeeming evildoers. One of the four tenets of the oath is to have the wisdom to acknowledge that there eventually comes a point [[MoralEventHorizon where someone can't seek forgiveness for their evil actions]], and to make the careful and grim final judgement that there is no hope of redeeming the subject in question. At that point, the Oath of Redemption Paladin needs to follow through with ending that evildoer's life [[TheNeedsOfTheMany for the safety of the world]].

** In the ''VideoGame/AceCombat7SkiesUnknown'' SP Mission 'Ten Million Relief Plan', [[spoiler:when Matias Torres gets backed into a corner he [[ISurrenderSuckers fakes a surrender]] so that he could line up a shot towards the Osean capital of Oured to try to end the war. However, David North, the intelligence analyst who had been assisting the LRSSG hunt down Torres, sees through his ruse and tries and fails to stop Torres from going through with his plan, forcing Trigger to disobey orders, and fire on the ''Alicorn'' right before it can shoot, throwing off its trajectory. After that, the LRSSG decide that they're done trying to negotiate with Torres, and sink him along with the ''Alicorn'' to the bottom of the ocean]].
* In ''VideoGame/BaldursGate'', Jon Irenicus's speech to Ellesime at the Tree of Life showed the latter that the former was a man who, up until that point, had been unrepentant and sadistic. Ellesime tries to reason with Irenicus about the love they used to share, but Irencius is so consumed by hatred that he won't back down from his EvilPlan to shed his mortal form and become a god, through any means necessary. Ellesime sadly concludes that [[ThatManIsDead there's nothing left of Jon to save]], and that she has to stop him.

* In the backstory of ''VideoGame/{{Destiny}}'', a Guardian [[{{Unperson}} whose name had been lost to history]][[note]]His name is later revealed to be Rezyl Azzir[[/note]] had been [[FallenHero corrupted by the forces of darkness]] and went by the name of Dredgen Yor. His Ghost had tried to get him to come back by calling him his original name, but [[ThatManIsDead when he threatened to kill her]] for calling him by that name, it made her realize that the Guardian she once knew was gone.

* ''WesternAnimation/TheLionGuard'': Exploited by Scar's evil spirit in Season 3. He wishes to destroy the Pride Lands with the fire that he's now made of, and wants Kion's Roar of Elders to amplify his powers. To do so, he tries to make his grandnephew, Kion, use [[StrikeMeDownWithAllOfYourHatred the Roar to destroy him with hate]], confident that Kion has nothing but contempt for his great-uncle's evil and horrendous deeds. [[spoiler:It ends up being double-subverted. Kion, despite being given a cursed scar of hate, refuses to give into the temptation and instead forgives his great uncle, much to Scar's shock. He then calls upon the great lions of the past to bring actual judgement upon Scar, which is a rainstorm that snuffs out the fires caused by Scar. Scar, now being literally made of fire, is permanently destroyed rather than redeemed.]]

-->'''Batman:''' I have lost all life, so I steal it. I am death, so I bring it. I am damned, and the world may be doomed, its sheep without shepherd, ready for its slaughter. And worst of all, the lost shepherd was me.