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These seem to be in line with the Headscratchers guidelines to me.
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
to:
Sometimes she has a daughter, sometimes she has a wacky sidekick, sometimes she has an invisible jet, sometimes she can fly, sometimes she can sense magic, sometimes she can only trust women, sometimes her arch villain is a were-cheetah, sometimes it's just a woman in a cat costume, sometimes she has a love interest but sometimes he's a father figure, sometimes wondergirl is a ascended fangirl... nothing is ever consistent in the series. It's in a constant state of reboots and retcons, the only thing that seems to stay the same is that Wonderwoman inexplicably dresses up in her american flag swim suit, and even then there was a time when she didn't even wear THAT. How can one of the most well known superheroes have practically nothing that stays sacred about her?
* If you want a somewhat sociological answer, I think it's the fact that she's one of the most well known superheroes as well as the most well known ''female'' superhero. Each version of her reflects the time it was made in and what was expected of women at the time, and each author that comes on to the title has their own idea about what the "ultimate woman" represented in her should be, which also shows how much in flux the idea of womanhood in itself has been for the last century.
* Also, the inconsistencies aren't anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. While her stories were in a bit of flux every now and then from the Golden Age to the 80s, there were pretty long stretches where, plot wise, things followed the same set up and formula before the next shape up. And ever since the Post-Crisis era began, her continuity has been pretty good and her characterization and the characterization of her supporting cast has been pretty consistent, changing of course with actual character development. There have been some issues, especially recently, but no more so than any long running and popular franchise.
** Seconded. There are a lot of difference between the [[TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden]] and [[TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] versions and the PostCrisis version, but past the Crisis she is fairly steady with changes happening subtly over time. (Let's not bring up what happened in TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks.) In fact, some writers are unhappy with how little the DC Editorial department will allow them to do with the character. Now, if you want to see a Superheroine who has been through a '''lot''' of changes, [[{{Supergirl}} check this out]].
*** I call your Supergirl and raise you PowerGirl, fun fact: Sometimes shes from Krypton, sometimes she's a alternate universe version of SuperGirl, and sometimes shes a time traveler who gets ALL her powers from her outfit.
** I've made a thread on this; apparently there's been about ten zillion 'New Direction for Wonder Woman!' comics and none of them stick. Writers as a whole seem to have no agreement on how to write Wonder Woman nowadays.
*** I'd say part of that is probably because Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the "Big 3" superheroes at DC Comics, so expectations for her are very high. When a title starts underperforming, it's pretty common to go, "since this isn't working, we'd better try something new and different", but what's considered "underperforming" for Wonder Woman would probably be seen as perfectly acceptable for less famous superhero titles.
**** Wonder Woman's a "Big Three" [[PositiveDiscrimination in name only.]] There's really a "Big Two" and a whole lot of second-stringers, with WW being somewhere in the middle of the pack. The problem with Wonder Woman is that the "iconic appeal" inherent in a lot of DC's heroes [[ValuesDissonance really doesn't apply for a lot of reasons]], so there really isn't much justification not to ReTool if they think it will increase sales.
* There's also a meta-reason: for a long time there was a contractual requirement that for DC to keep the rights to Wonder Woman, she had to stay in print. That guarantees she's going to stay well known.
** Actually, that's just a part of copyright law. If a copyright holder doesn't make use of the copyrighted property within a set timeframe, they run the risk of the copyrighted character moving into the public domain. That's also one of the reasons for old team-up books like DC Comics Presents, The Brave and the Bold, and Marvel Team Up (affectionately--or not--referred to by many creators as "copyright renewal theater"). Also, regardless of any changes made to the character, their backstory, or their appearance, they will always appear SOMEwhere in their original form, or else their copyright holder runs the risk of losing the rights to whatever iteration they aren't using.
*** No. Copyright isn't renewable, and isn't tied to making use of the property. You're thinking of trademarks. There ''were'' some legal issues involving reclamation of works by their creators, but a.) that concerned Superman, not Wonder Woman, and b.) publication status wasn't an issue there either.
**** DC doesn't own Wonder Woman. She belongs to her creator's estate, and a condition of his will is that they lose all rights to her if she doesn't have a regularly published comic. I'm not sure if that stipulation is still in force, but DC does not own Wonder Woman.
**** They own her lock, stock, and barrel now, although the "four issues a year" thing was true until about 1986 or so.
If the Invisible Jet is ''invisible'', how does she find it?
* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.
** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!
So, this might belong under Teen Titans or WonderGirl (does she have a series?), but anyway... Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester. Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old. Maybe 4. And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology, he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien). Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid, and the other half is the king of JerkassGods... But she's still in her teens.
* He may be chronologically 3 or 4, but he was physically and mentally aged to and given the knowledge appropriate for a 16 year-old. (If I remember correctly, one of the storylines in his comic book was that he had to attend high school, but that was quickly dropped.) You raise a somewhat [[{{Squick}} squicky]], [[FridgeLogic fridge-logicy]] point, but for all intents and purposes he is physically and mentally 18-19 even if he is chronologically much younger. Although some of us desperately try to forget the whole HalfHumanHybrid thing.
* Don't you think you're being a bit ridiculous here? You're applying real-world laws to a setting where human clones can be grown to adulthood in (at most) a single year.
* If you want a somewhat sociological answer, I think it's the fact that she's one of the most well known superheroes as well as the most well known ''female'' superhero. Each version of her reflects the time it was made in and what was expected of women at the time, and each author that comes on to the title has their own idea about what the "ultimate woman" represented in her should be, which also shows how much in flux the idea of womanhood in itself has been for the last century.
* Also, the inconsistencies aren't anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. While her stories were in a bit of flux every now and then from the Golden Age to the 80s, there were pretty long stretches where, plot wise, things followed the same set up and formula before the next shape up. And ever since the Post-Crisis era began, her continuity has been pretty good and her characterization and the characterization of her supporting cast has been pretty consistent, changing of course with actual character development. There have been some issues, especially recently, but no more so than any long running and popular franchise.
** Seconded. There are a lot of difference between the [[TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden]] and [[TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] versions and the PostCrisis version, but past the Crisis she is fairly steady with changes happening subtly over time. (Let's not bring up what happened in TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks.) In fact, some writers are unhappy with how little the DC Editorial department will allow them to do with the character. Now, if you want to see a Superheroine who has been through a '''lot''' of changes, [[{{Supergirl}} check this out]].
*** I call your Supergirl and raise you PowerGirl, fun fact: Sometimes shes from Krypton, sometimes she's a alternate universe version of SuperGirl, and sometimes shes a time traveler who gets ALL her powers from her outfit.
** I've made a thread on this; apparently there's been about ten zillion 'New Direction for Wonder Woman!' comics and none of them stick. Writers as a whole seem to have no agreement on how to write Wonder Woman nowadays.
*** I'd say part of that is probably because Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the "Big 3" superheroes at DC Comics, so expectations for her are very high. When a title starts underperforming, it's pretty common to go, "since this isn't working, we'd better try something new and different", but what's considered "underperforming" for Wonder Woman would probably be seen as perfectly acceptable for less famous superhero titles.
**** Wonder Woman's a "Big Three" [[PositiveDiscrimination in name only.]] There's really a "Big Two" and a whole lot of second-stringers, with WW being somewhere in the middle of the pack. The problem with Wonder Woman is that the "iconic appeal" inherent in a lot of DC's heroes [[ValuesDissonance really doesn't apply for a lot of reasons]], so there really isn't much justification not to ReTool if they think it will increase sales.
* There's also a meta-reason: for a long time there was a contractual requirement that for DC to keep the rights to Wonder Woman, she had to stay in print. That guarantees she's going to stay well known.
** Actually, that's just a part of copyright law. If a copyright holder doesn't make use of the copyrighted property within a set timeframe, they run the risk of the copyrighted character moving into the public domain. That's also one of the reasons for old team-up books like DC Comics Presents, The Brave and the Bold, and Marvel Team Up (affectionately--or not--referred to by many creators as "copyright renewal theater"). Also, regardless of any changes made to the character, their backstory, or their appearance, they will always appear SOMEwhere in their original form, or else their copyright holder runs the risk of losing the rights to whatever iteration they aren't using.
*** No. Copyright isn't renewable, and isn't tied to making use of the property. You're thinking of trademarks. There ''were'' some legal issues involving reclamation of works by their creators, but a.) that concerned Superman, not Wonder Woman, and b.) publication status wasn't an issue there either.
**** DC doesn't own Wonder Woman. She belongs to her creator's estate, and a condition of his will is that they lose all rights to her if she doesn't have a regularly published comic. I'm not sure if that stipulation is still in force, but DC does not own Wonder Woman.
**** They own her lock, stock, and barrel now, although the "four issues a year" thing was true until about 1986 or so.
If the Invisible Jet is ''invisible'', how does she find it?
* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.
** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!
So, this might belong under Teen Titans or WonderGirl (does she have a series?), but anyway... Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester. Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old. Maybe 4. And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology, he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien). Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid, and the other half is the king of JerkassGods... But she's still in her teens.
* He may be chronologically 3 or 4, but he was physically and mentally aged to and given the knowledge appropriate for a 16 year-old. (If I remember correctly, one of the storylines in his comic book was that he had to attend high school, but that was quickly dropped.) You raise a somewhat [[{{Squick}} squicky]], [[FridgeLogic fridge-logicy]] point, but for all intents and purposes he is physically and mentally 18-19 even if he is chronologically much younger. Although some of us desperately try to forget the whole HalfHumanHybrid thing.
* Don't you think you're being a bit ridiculous here? You're applying real-world laws to a setting where human clones can be grown to adulthood in (at most) a single year.
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headscratchers is not to complaining
Changed line(s) 1,21 (click to see context) from:
Sometimes she has a daughter, sometimes she has a wacky sidekick, sometimes she has an invisible jet, sometimes she can fly, sometimes she can sense magic, sometimes she can only trust women, sometimes her arch villain is a were-cheetah, sometimes it's just a woman in a cat costume, sometimes she has a love interest but sometimes he's a father figure, sometimes wondergirl is a ascended fangirl... nothing is ever consistent in the series. It's in a constant state of reboots and retcons, the only thing that seems to stay the same is that Wonderwoman inexplicably dresses up in her american flag swim suit, and even then there was a time when she didn't even wear THAT. How can one of the most well known superheroes have practically nothing that stays sacred about her?
* If you want a somewhat sociological answer, I think it's the fact that she's one of the most well known superheroes as well as the most well known ''female'' superhero. Each version of her reflects the time it was made in and what was expected of women at the time, and each author that comes on to the title has their own idea about what the "ultimate woman" represented in her should be, which also shows how much in flux the idea of womanhood in itself has been for the last century.
* Also, the inconsistencies aren't anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. While her stories were in a bit of flux every now and then from the Golden Age to the 80s, there were pretty long stretches where, plot wise, things followed the same set up and formula before the next shape up. And ever since the Post-Crisis era began, her continuity has been pretty good and her characterization and the characterization of her supporting cast has been pretty consistent, changing of course with actual character development. There have been some issues, especially recently, but no more so than any long running and popular franchise.
** Seconded. There are a lot of difference between the [[TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden]] and [[TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] versions and the PostCrisis version, but past the Crisis she is fairly steady with changes happening subtly over time. (Let's not bring up what happened in TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks.) In fact, some writers are unhappy with how little the DC Editorial department will allow them to do with the character. Now, if you want to see a Superheroine who has been through a '''lot''' of changes, [[{{Supergirl}} check this out]].
*** I call your Supergirl and raise you PowerGirl, fun fact: Sometimes shes from Krypton, sometimes she's a alternate universe version of SuperGirl, and sometimes shes a time traveler who gets ALL her powers from her outfit.
** I've made a thread on this; apparently there's been about ten zillion 'New Direction for Wonder Woman!' comics and none of them stick. Writers as a whole seem to have no agreement on how to write Wonder Woman nowadays.
*** I'd say part of that is probably because Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the "Big 3" superheroes at DC Comics, so expectations for her are very high. When a title starts underperforming, it's pretty common to go, "since this isn't working, we'd better try something new and different", but what's considered "underperforming" for Wonder Woman would probably be seen as perfectly acceptable for less famous superhero titles.
**** Wonder Woman's a "Big Three" [[PositiveDiscrimination in name only.]] There's really a "Big Two" and a whole lot of second-stringers, with WW being somewhere in the middle of the pack. The problem with Wonder Woman is that the "iconic appeal" inherent in a lot of DC's heroes [[ValuesDissonance really doesn't apply for a lot of reasons]], so there really isn't much justification not to ReTool if they think it will increase sales.
* There's also a meta-reason: for a long time there was a contractual requirement that for DC to keep the rights to Wonder Woman, she had to stay in print. That guarantees she's going to stay well known.
** Actually, that's just a part of copyright law. If a copyright holder doesn't make use of the copyrighted property within a set timeframe, they run the risk of the copyrighted character moving into the public domain. That's also one of the reasons for old team-up books like DC Comics Presents, The Brave and the Bold, and Marvel Team Up (affectionately--or not--referred to by many creators as "copyright renewal theater"). Also, regardless of any changes made to the character, their backstory, or their appearance, they will always appear SOMEwhere in their original form, or else their copyright holder runs the risk of losing the rights to whatever iteration they aren't using.
*** No. Copyright isn't renewable, and isn't tied to making use of the property. You're thinking of trademarks. There ''were'' some legal issues involving reclamation of works by their creators, but a.) that concerned Superman, not Wonder Woman, and b.) publication status wasn't an issue there either.
**** DC doesn't own Wonder Woman. She belongs to her creator's estate, and a condition of his will is that they lose all rights to her if she doesn't have a regularly published comic. I'm not sure if that stipulation is still in force, but DC does not own Wonder Woman.
**** They own her lock, stock, and barrel now, although the "four issues a year" thing was true until about 1986 or so.
If the Invisible Jet is ''invisible'', how does she find it?
* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.
** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!
So, this might belong under Teen Titans or WonderGirl (does she have a series?), but anyway... Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester. Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old. Maybe 4. And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology, he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien). Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid, and the other half is the king of JerkassGods... But she's still in her teens.
* He may be chronologically 3 or 4, but he was physically and mentally aged to and given the knowledge appropriate for a 16 year-old. (If I remember correctly, one of the storylines in his comic book was that he had to attend high school, but that was quickly dropped.) You raise a somewhat [[{{Squick}} squicky]], [[FridgeLogic fridge-logicy]] point, but for all intents and purposes he is physically and mentally 18-19 even if he is chronologically much younger. Although some of us desperately try to forget the whole HalfHumanHybrid thing.
* Don't you think you're being a bit ridiculous here? You're applying real-world laws to a setting where human clones can be grown to adulthood in (at most) a single year.
* If you want a somewhat sociological answer, I think it's the fact that she's one of the most well known superheroes as well as the most well known ''female'' superhero. Each version of her reflects the time it was made in and what was expected of women at the time, and each author that comes on to the title has their own idea about what the "ultimate woman" represented in her should be, which also shows how much in flux the idea of womanhood in itself has been for the last century.
* Also, the inconsistencies aren't anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. While her stories were in a bit of flux every now and then from the Golden Age to the 80s, there were pretty long stretches where, plot wise, things followed the same set up and formula before the next shape up. And ever since the Post-Crisis era began, her continuity has been pretty good and her characterization and the characterization of her supporting cast has been pretty consistent, changing of course with actual character development. There have been some issues, especially recently, but no more so than any long running and popular franchise.
** Seconded. There are a lot of difference between the [[TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden]] and [[TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] versions and the PostCrisis version, but past the Crisis she is fairly steady with changes happening subtly over time. (Let's not bring up what happened in TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks.) In fact, some writers are unhappy with how little the DC Editorial department will allow them to do with the character. Now, if you want to see a Superheroine who has been through a '''lot''' of changes, [[{{Supergirl}} check this out]].
*** I call your Supergirl and raise you PowerGirl, fun fact: Sometimes shes from Krypton, sometimes she's a alternate universe version of SuperGirl, and sometimes shes a time traveler who gets ALL her powers from her outfit.
** I've made a thread on this; apparently there's been about ten zillion 'New Direction for Wonder Woman!' comics and none of them stick. Writers as a whole seem to have no agreement on how to write Wonder Woman nowadays.
*** I'd say part of that is probably because Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the "Big 3" superheroes at DC Comics, so expectations for her are very high. When a title starts underperforming, it's pretty common to go, "since this isn't working, we'd better try something new and different", but what's considered "underperforming" for Wonder Woman would probably be seen as perfectly acceptable for less famous superhero titles.
**** Wonder Woman's a "Big Three" [[PositiveDiscrimination in name only.]] There's really a "Big Two" and a whole lot of second-stringers, with WW being somewhere in the middle of the pack. The problem with Wonder Woman is that the "iconic appeal" inherent in a lot of DC's heroes [[ValuesDissonance really doesn't apply for a lot of reasons]], so there really isn't much justification not to ReTool if they think it will increase sales.
* There's also a meta-reason: for a long time there was a contractual requirement that for DC to keep the rights to Wonder Woman, she had to stay in print. That guarantees she's going to stay well known.
** Actually, that's just a part of copyright law. If a copyright holder doesn't make use of the copyrighted property within a set timeframe, they run the risk of the copyrighted character moving into the public domain. That's also one of the reasons for old team-up books like DC Comics Presents, The Brave and the Bold, and Marvel Team Up (affectionately--or not--referred to by many creators as "copyright renewal theater"). Also, regardless of any changes made to the character, their backstory, or their appearance, they will always appear SOMEwhere in their original form, or else their copyright holder runs the risk of losing the rights to whatever iteration they aren't using.
*** No. Copyright isn't renewable, and isn't tied to making use of the property. You're thinking of trademarks. There ''were'' some legal issues involving reclamation of works by their creators, but a.) that concerned Superman, not Wonder Woman, and b.) publication status wasn't an issue there either.
**** DC doesn't own Wonder Woman. She belongs to her creator's estate, and a condition of his will is that they lose all rights to her if she doesn't have a regularly published comic. I'm not sure if that stipulation is still in force, but DC does not own Wonder Woman.
**** They own her lock, stock, and barrel now, although the "four issues a year" thing was true until about 1986 or so.
If the Invisible Jet is ''invisible'', how does she find it?
* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.
** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!
So, this might belong under Teen Titans or WonderGirl (does she have a series?), but anyway... Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester. Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old. Maybe 4. And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology, he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien). Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid, and the other half is the king of JerkassGods... But she's still in her teens.
* He may be chronologically 3 or 4, but he was physically and mentally aged to and given the knowledge appropriate for a 16 year-old. (If I remember correctly, one of the storylines in his comic book was that he had to attend high school, but that was quickly dropped.) You raise a somewhat [[{{Squick}} squicky]], [[FridgeLogic fridge-logicy]] point, but for all intents and purposes he is physically and mentally 18-19 even if he is chronologically much younger. Although some of us desperately try to forget the whole HalfHumanHybrid thing.
* Don't you think you're being a bit ridiculous here? You're applying real-world laws to a setting where human clones can be grown to adulthood in (at most) a single year.
to:
* If you want a somewhat sociological answer, I think it's the fact that she's one of the most well known superheroes as well as the most well known ''female'' superhero. Each version of her reflects the time it was made in and what was expected of women at the time, and each author that comes on to the title has their own idea about what the "ultimate woman" represented in her should be, which also shows how much in flux the idea of womanhood in itself has been for the last century.
* Also, the inconsistencies aren't anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be. While her stories were in a bit of flux every now and then from the Golden Age to the 80s, there were pretty long stretches where, plot wise, things followed the same set up and formula before the next shape up. And ever since the Post-Crisis era began, her continuity has been pretty good and her characterization and the characterization of her supporting cast has been pretty consistent, changing of course with actual character development. There have been some issues, especially recently, but no more so than any long running and popular franchise.
** Seconded. There are a lot of difference between the [[TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden]] and [[TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] versions and the PostCrisis version, but past the Crisis she is fairly steady with changes happening subtly over time. (Let's not bring up what happened in TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks.) In fact, some writers are unhappy with how little the DC Editorial department will allow them to do with the character. Now, if you want to see a Superheroine who has been through a '''lot''' of changes, [[{{Supergirl}} check this out]].
*** I call your Supergirl and raise you PowerGirl, fun fact: Sometimes shes from Krypton, sometimes she's a alternate universe version of SuperGirl, and sometimes shes a time traveler who gets ALL her powers from her outfit.
** I've made a thread on this; apparently there's been about ten zillion 'New Direction for Wonder Woman!' comics and none of them stick. Writers as a whole seem to have no agreement on how to write Wonder Woman nowadays.
*** I'd say part of that is probably because Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the "Big 3" superheroes at DC Comics, so expectations for her are very high. When a title starts underperforming, it's pretty common to go, "since this isn't working, we'd better try something new and different", but what's considered "underperforming" for Wonder Woman would probably be seen as perfectly acceptable for less famous superhero titles.
**** Wonder Woman's a "Big Three" [[PositiveDiscrimination in name only.]] There's really a "Big Two" and a whole lot of second-stringers, with WW being somewhere in the middle of the pack. The problem with Wonder Woman is that the "iconic appeal" inherent in a lot of DC's heroes [[ValuesDissonance really doesn't apply for a lot of reasons]], so there really isn't much justification not to ReTool if they think it will increase sales.
* There's also a meta-reason: for a long time there was a contractual requirement that for DC to keep the rights to Wonder Woman, she had to stay in print. That guarantees she's going to stay well known.
** Actually, that's just a part of copyright law. If a copyright holder doesn't make use of the copyrighted property within a set timeframe, they run the risk of the copyrighted character moving into the public domain. That's also one of the reasons for old team-up books like DC Comics Presents, The Brave and the Bold, and Marvel Team Up (affectionately--or not--referred to by many creators as "copyright renewal theater"). Also, regardless of any changes made to the character, their backstory, or their appearance, they will always appear SOMEwhere in their original form, or else their copyright holder runs the risk of losing the rights to whatever iteration they aren't using.
*** No. Copyright isn't renewable, and isn't tied to making use of the property. You're thinking of trademarks. There ''were'' some legal issues involving reclamation of works by their creators, but a.) that concerned Superman, not Wonder Woman, and b.) publication status wasn't an issue there either.
**** DC doesn't own Wonder Woman. She belongs to her creator's estate, and a condition of his will is that they lose all rights to her if she doesn't have a regularly published comic. I'm not sure if that stipulation is still in force, but DC does not own Wonder Woman.
**** They own her lock, stock, and barrel now, although the "four issues a year" thing was true until about 1986 or so.
If the Invisible Jet is ''invisible'', how does she find it?
* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.
** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!
So, this might belong under Teen Titans or WonderGirl (does she have a series?), but anyway... Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester. Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old. Maybe 4. And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology, he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien). Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid, and the other half is the king of JerkassGods... But she's still in her teens.
* He may be chronologically 3 or 4, but he was physically and mentally aged to and given the knowledge appropriate for a 16 year-old. (If I remember correctly, one of the storylines in his comic book was that he had to attend high school, but that was quickly dropped.) You raise a somewhat [[{{Squick}} squicky]], [[FridgeLogic fridge-logicy]] point, but for all intents and purposes he is physically and mentally 18-19 even if he is chronologically much younger. Although some of us desperately try to forget the whole HalfHumanHybrid thing.
* Don't you think you're being a bit ridiculous here? You're applying real-world laws to a setting where human clones can be grown to adulthood in (at most) a single year.
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Changed line(s) 31 (click to see context) from:
***** "Wipe his knowledge?" How? I don't recall Diana having mind erase powers. And if you say Zatanna or Martian Manhunter, I'll point you to IdentityCrisis, a series that (whether is succeeded or not) showed that mind-raping supervillains into forgetting things is a very grey & unreliable area. Besides, at that point, Max was sure that Checkmate & the OMAC army he created could handle any alien invasion off, New God or not. There may have been options (though I've been remiss to see any that actually could have held water) but Diana didn't have time since she was in a room with a mind-controlled Superman who was in danger of attacking her again.
to:
***** "Wipe his knowledge?" How? I don't recall Diana having mind erase powers. And if you say Zatanna or Martian Manhunter, I'll point you to IdentityCrisis, a series that (whether is succeeded or not) showed that mind-raping supervillains into forgetting things is a very grey & unreliable area. Besides, at that point, Max was sure that Checkmate & the OMAC army he created could handle any alien invasion off, New God or not. There may have been options (though I've been remiss to see any that actually could have held water) but Diana didn't have time since she was in a room with a mind-controlled Superman who was in danger of attacking her again.again.
****** Furthermore, Maxwell Lord was, and is, a complete monster. While Zatanna got vetoed and banned from mindwiping anyone because, last time she did, she turned Doctor Light into "Rapist McRape, the Rapist Therapist", Maxwell Lord proved during the BrightestDay storyline to be not above killing superpowered children, getting Magog explode in a crowded city just to get a KingdomCome thrown at the JLI and sending his creations to get some petty revenge over WonderWoman herself while claiming to be the world's saviour. Basically, he was in Diana's eyes a deeply disturbed man handling the most powerful humanoid on Earth. And she doesn't seem pained by killing him, but rather by the realization that Brother Eye, broadcasting her actions without relaying the context, actually turned her mission to spread peace in the Patriarch World into an instant failure.
****** Furthermore, Maxwell Lord was, and is, a complete monster. While Zatanna got vetoed and banned from mindwiping anyone because, last time she did, she turned Doctor Light into "Rapist McRape, the Rapist Therapist", Maxwell Lord proved during the BrightestDay storyline to be not above killing superpowered children, getting Magog explode in a crowded city just to get a KingdomCome thrown at the JLI and sending his creations to get some petty revenge over WonderWoman herself while claiming to be the world's saviour. Basically, he was in Diana's eyes a deeply disturbed man handling the most powerful humanoid on Earth. And she doesn't seem pained by killing him, but rather by the realization that Brother Eye, broadcasting her actions without relaying the context, actually turned her mission to spread peace in the Patriarch World into an instant failure.
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Added DiffLines:
**** They own her lock, stock, and barrel now, although the "four issues a year" thing was true until about 1986 or so.
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**** She could just knock out Max and maybe mind wipe his knowledge on how to control people,or use the Lasso of Truth to show wiping out all superheroes will allow guys like Darkseid to wipe out or conquer mankind.There were other options(not to mention that Max seems like a WellIntentionedExtremist in that book),which is why fans are angry about it
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**** She could just knock out Max and maybe mind wipe his knowledge on how to control people,or use the Lasso of Truth to show wiping out all superheroes will allow guys like Darkseid to wipe out or conquer mankind.There were other options(not to mention that Max seems like a WellIntentionedExtremist in that book),which is why fans are angry about itit
***** "Wipe his knowledge?" How? I don't recall Diana having mind erase powers. And if you say Zatanna or Martian Manhunter, I'll point you to IdentityCrisis, a series that (whether is succeeded or not) showed that mind-raping supervillains into forgetting things is a very grey & unreliable area. Besides, at that point, Max was sure that Checkmate & the OMAC army he created could handle any alien invasion off, New God or not. There may have been options (though I've been remiss to see any that actually could have held water) but Diana didn't have time since she was in a room with a mind-controlled Superman who was in danger of attacking her again.
***** "Wipe his knowledge?" How? I don't recall Diana having mind erase powers. And if you say Zatanna or Martian Manhunter, I'll point you to IdentityCrisis, a series that (whether is succeeded or not) showed that mind-raping supervillains into forgetting things is a very grey & unreliable area. Besides, at that point, Max was sure that Checkmate & the OMAC army he created could handle any alien invasion off, New God or not. There may have been options (though I've been remiss to see any that actually could have held water) but Diana didn't have time since she was in a room with a mind-controlled Superman who was in danger of attacking her again.
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The recent animated Wonder Woman film is DCUOAM, \'\'not\'\' DCAU.
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The excessive violence (for a DCAU movie) in the Wonder Woman film raised a question for this Troper. Didn't Wonder Woman have a no-kill code? Or is that only in some incarnations? Because I was under the impression that her murder of Max Lord in the Comics was so huge BECAUSE she'd never done it before.
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The excessive violence (for a DCAU movie) in the Wonder Woman film raised a question for this Troper. Didn't Wonder Woman have a no-kill code? Or is that only in some incarnations? Because I was under the impression that her murder of Max Lord in the Comics was so huge BECAUSE she'd never done it before.
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**** DC doesn't own Wonder Woman. She belongs to her creator's estate, and a condition of his will is that they lose all rights to her if she doesn't have a regularly published comic. I'm not sure if that stipulation is still in force, but DC does not own Wonder Woman.
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*** No. Copyright isn't renewable, and isn't tied to making use of the property. You're thinking of trademarks. There ''were'' some legal issues involving reclamation of works by their creators, but a.) that concerned Superman, not Wonder Woman, and b.) publication status wasn't an issue there either.
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**Actually, that's just a part of copyright law. If a copyright holder doesn't make use of the copyrighted property within a set timeframe, they run the risk of the copyrighted character moving into the public domain. That's also one of the reasons for old team-up books like DC Comics Presents, The Brave and the Bold, and Marvel Team Up (affectionately--or not--referred to by many creators as "copyright renewal theater"). Also, regardless of any changes made to the character, their backstory, or their appearance, they will always appear SOMEwhere in their original form, or else their copyright holder runs the risk of losing the rights to whatever iteration they aren't using.
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** Just how is that supposed to be the same love as what powers the Star Sapphires?"Loving Earth" seems too platonic
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*** Nowhere close? The creative team powered up a telepath to create a rampaging mind-controlled Kryptonian situation, with the threat of recurrence if the telepath lived. However much one may want Diana to be so overpowered she can work around that, that's still pretty close.
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*** Nowhere close? The creative team powered up a telepath to create a rampaging mind-controlled Kryptonian situation, with the threat of recurrence if the telepath lived. However much one may want Diana to be so overpowered she can work around that, that's still pretty close.close.
**** She could just knock out Max and maybe mind wipe his knowledge on how to control people,or use the Lasso of Truth to show wiping out all superheroes will allow guys like Darkseid to wipe out or conquer mankind.There were other options(not to mention that Max seems like a WellIntentionedExtremist in that book),which is why fans are angry about it
**** She could just knock out Max and maybe mind wipe his knowledge on how to control people,or use the Lasso of Truth to show wiping out all superheroes will allow guys like Darkseid to wipe out or conquer mankind.There were other options(not to mention that Max seems like a WellIntentionedExtremist in that book),which is why fans are angry about it
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nowhere close?
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*** Nowhere close? The creative team powered up a telepath to create a rampaging mind-controlled Kryptonian situation, with the threat of recurrence if the telepath lived. However much one may want Diana to be so overpowered she can work around that, that's still pretty close.
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* Don't you think you're being a bit ridiculous here? You're applying real-world laws to a setting where human clones can be grown to adulthood in (at most) a single year.
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*** I call your Supergirl and raise you PowerGirl, fun fact: Sometimes shes from Krypton, sometimes she's a alternate universe version of SuperGirl, and sometimes shes a time traveler who gets ALL her powers from her outfit.
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** George Perez made it explicit very early in his post-Crisis reboot of the character that she will kill, without remorse or self-recrimination, if the situation requires it, though she can usually manage to find less drastic solutions. The problem with Max Lord, for the fans, was that the situation was nowhere close to requiring it. In-universe, the problem was the wide-spread belief that superheroes [[ThouShaltNotKill never kill]].
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* Apparently the idea was to make him distinct from the other big two superheroes (Superman and Batman) in that she can and will kill if absolutely necessary. (The one time the post-crisis Superman consciously killed someone — when he executed the three Kryptonian supervillains — it was ''huge deal'' to him and haunted him for a long time afterwards, which doesn't seem to be the case with Wonder Woman.) Even if this was a RetCon, it kinda makes sense, as (unlike Superman and Batman) WW was raised in a [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy warrior culture]]. During Gail Simone's run WW explicitly states that she can kill to save innocent lives, but not for selfish reasons, such as revenge.
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* Apparently the idea was to make him distinct from the other big two superheroes (Superman and Batman) in that she can and will kill if absolutely necessary. (The one time the post-crisis Superman consciously killed someone — when he executed the three Kryptonian supervillains — it was ''huge deal'' to him and haunted him for a long time afterwards, which doesn't seem to be the case with Wonder Woman.) Even if this was a RetCon, [[RetCon retcon]], it kinda makes sense, as (unlike Superman and Batman) WW was raised in a [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy warrior culture]]. During Gail Simone's run WW explicitly states that she can kill to save innocent lives, but not for selfish reasons, such as revenge.
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Changed the page formatting so it looks more consistent.
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So,this might belong under Teen Titans or WonderGirl (does she have a series?),but anyway...
* Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester.Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old.
Maybe 4.And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology,he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien).Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid,and the other half is the king of JerkassGods...but she's still in her teens.
** He may be chronologically 3 or 4, but he was physically and mentally aged to and given the knowledge appropriate for a 16 year-old. (If I remember correctly, one of the storylines in his comic book was that he had to attend high school, but that was quickly dropped.) You raise a somewhat [[{{Squick}} squicky]], [[FridgeLogic fridge-logicy]] point, but for all intents and purposes he is physically and mentally 18-19 even if he is chronologically much younger. Although some of us desperately try to forget the whole HalfHumanHybrid thing.
* Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester.Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old.
Maybe 4.And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology,he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien).Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid,and the other half is the king of JerkassGods...but she's still in her teens.
** He may be chronologically 3 or 4, but he was physically and mentally aged to and given the knowledge appropriate for a 16 year-old. (If I remember correctly, one of the storylines in his comic book was that he had to attend high school, but that was quickly dropped.) You raise a somewhat [[{{Squick}} squicky]], [[FridgeLogic fridge-logicy]] point, but for all intents and purposes he is physically and mentally 18-19 even if he is chronologically much younger. Although some of us desperately try to forget the whole HalfHumanHybrid thing.
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** I think somewhere in BN it was said that "no one loves Earth more than Wonder Woman", so her love's for the entire world, not just one person. As for the "loss" part of the requirement, well, she did spend a year or so with most of Earth's public opinion against her (because of the whole Max Lord fiasco).
* The excessive violence (for a DCAU movie) in the Wonder Woman film raised a question for this Troper. Didn't Wonder Woman have a no-kill code? Or is that only in some incarnations? Because I was under the impression that her murder of Max Lord in the Comics was so huge BECAUSE she'd never done it before.
** Apparently the idea was to make him distinct from the other big two superheroes (Superman and Batman) in that she can and will kill if absolutely necessary. (The one time the post-crisis Superman consciously killed someone — when he executed the three Kryptonian supervillains — it was ''huge deal'' to him and haunted him for a long time afterwards, which doesn't seem to be the case with Wonder Woman.) Even if this was a RetCon, it kinda makes sense, as (unlike Superman and Batman) WW was raised in a [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy warrior culture]]. During Gail Simone's run WW explicitly states that she can kill to save innocent lives, but not for selfish reasons such as revenge.
* The excessive violence (for a DCAU movie) in the Wonder Woman film raised a question for this Troper. Didn't Wonder Woman have a no-kill code? Or is that only in some incarnations? Because I was under the impression that her murder of Max Lord in the Comics was so huge BECAUSE she'd never done it before.
** Apparently the idea was to make him distinct from the other big two superheroes (Superman and Batman) in that she can and will kill if absolutely necessary. (The one time the post-crisis Superman consciously killed someone — when he executed the three Kryptonian supervillains — it was ''huge deal'' to him and haunted him for a long time afterwards, which doesn't seem to be the case with Wonder Woman.) Even if this was a RetCon, it kinda makes sense, as (unlike Superman and Batman) WW was raised in a [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy warrior culture]]. During Gail Simone's run WW explicitly states that she can kill to save innocent lives, but not for selfish reasons such as revenge.
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*
The excessive violence (for a DCAU movie) in the Wonder Woman film raised a question for this Troper. Didn't Wonder Woman have a no-kill code? Or is that only in some incarnations? Because I was under the impression that her murder of Max Lord in the Comics was so huge BECAUSE she'd never done it before.
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**** Wonder Woman's a "Big Three" [[PositiveDiscrimination in name only.]] There's really a "Big Two" and a whole lot of second-stringers, with WW being somewhere in the middle of the pack. The problem with Wonder Woman is that the "iconic appeal" inherent in a lot of DC's heroes [[ValuesDissonance really doesn't apply for a lot of reasons]], so there really isn't much justification not to ReTool if they think it will increase sales.
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* Why in the hell was she made a Star Saphire in Blackest Night? For those of you who don't know, Star Saphires are basically Green Lanterns, but in regards to love, not willpower. I'm asking this because of her attitude towards Nemesis. So, he loved her, she loved him, but not enough to care about him any more than having kids? And she's made a Star Saphire?!
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Why in the hell was she made a Star Saphire in Blackest Night? For those of you who don't know, Star Saphires are basically Green Lanterns, but in regards to love, not willpower. I'm asking this because of her attitude towards Nemesis. So, he loved her, she loved him, but not enough to care about him any more than having kids? And she's made a Star Saphire?!
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*** I'd say part of that is probably because Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the "Big 3" superheroes at DC Comics, so expectations for her are very high. When a title starts underperforming, it's pretty common to go, "since this isn't working, we'd better try something new and different", but what's considered "underperforming" for Wonder Woman would probably be seen as perfectly acceptable for less famous superhero titles.
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** Seconded. There are a lot of difference between the [[GoldenAge Golden]] and SilverAge versions and the PostCrisis version, but past the Crisis she is fairly steady with changes happening subtly over time. (Let's not bring up what happened in the BronzeAge.) In fact, some writers are unhappy with how little the DC Editorial department will allow them to do with the character. Now, if you want to see a Superheroine who has been through a '''lot''' of changes, [[{{Supergirl}} check this out]].
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** Seconded. There are a lot of difference between the [[GoldenAge [[TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden]] and SilverAge [[TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] versions and the PostCrisis version, but past the Crisis she is fairly steady with changes happening subtly over time. (Let's not bring up what happened in the BronzeAge.TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks.) In fact, some writers are unhappy with how little the DC Editorial department will allow them to do with the character. Now, if you want to see a Superheroine who has been through a '''lot''' of changes, [[{{Supergirl}} check this out]].
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* There's also a meta-reason: for a long time there was a contractual requirement that for DC to keep the rights to Wonder Woman, she had to stay in print. That guarantees she's going to stay well known.
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** I've made a thread on this; apparently there's been about ten zillion 'New Direction for Wonder Woman!' comics and none of them stick. Writers as a whole seem to have no agreement on how to write Wonder Woman nowadays.
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** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!
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** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!mystery!
So,this might belong under Teen Titans or WonderGirl (does she have a series?),but anyway...
*Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester.Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old.
Maybe 4.And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology,he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien).Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid,and the other half is the king of JerkassGods...but she's still in her teens.
So,this might belong under Teen Titans or WonderGirl (does she have a series?),but anyway...
*Cassandra "Cassie" Sandsmark is a child molester.Her "boyfriend" Kon-El/Conner Kent is about 3 years old.
Maybe 4.And he isn't an alien with wierd alien psychology,he's just a HalfHumanHybrid (and the other half is HumanAlien).Of course she is also a HalfHumanHybrid,and the other half is the king of JerkassGods...but she's still in her teens.
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** Seconded. There are a lot of difference between the [[GoldenAge Golden]] and SilverAge versions and the PostCrisis version, but past the Crisis she is fairly steady with changes happening subtly over time. (Let's not bring up what happened in the BronzeAge.) In fact, some writers are unhappy with how little the DC Editorial department will allow them to do with the character. Now, if you want to see a Superheroine who has been through a '''lot''' of changes, [[{{Supergirl}} check this out]].
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* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.
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* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.fob.
** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!
** Holy FridgeBrilliance! I think that you solved the mystery!
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If the Invisible Jet is ''invisible'', how does she find it?
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If the Invisible Jet is ''invisible'', how does she find it?it?
* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.
* She keeps hitting the "Unlock" button on her alarm fob.
