History Headscratchers / Wicked

** Couldn't agree more. To be honest, Wicked is one of a very few books that I've regretted reading (alongside Bad Monkeys and Fool's Errand, off the top of my head). There's a difference between being clever and being skillful, and this guy just doesn't seem to realize that.

* Am I the only one who, upon hearing "What Is This Feeling," always thinks it could use [[Main/MemeticMutation more cowbell]]? None of the other songs, just that one. It's weird.
** No, not just you
** Yep. just you.
** I don't get it on that song, but I do in "Defying Gravity".

* The movie. There was an IMBD page on it and now it's..Gone. Is it VaporWare?
** Well, now I'm just depressed. They almost did a movie? I wonder whether it was to be book-based or the musical on film? Probably the latter; it's more family friendly so they'd hope for a larger audience with it.
*** You can't really tell if it's gone or not. They have two Wicked pages, one for 2011 and one for 2012 so you can't tell which is which. Plus they're both blank but under "In Development".
** As for whether it'd be the book or the musical adaption, what do you think would bring in more money to Hollywood. An in-depth dark complex story full of murder, sex, and corruption, or a girly family-friendly magical adventure in the lessons of friendship filled with happy tunes detailing how it doesn't matter if you're unpopular because you can still get a boyfriend?
*** Wow. Not ''too'' biased there, huh? The musical's themes are ''softened'' from the book's, sure, but they aren't completely abandoned. The reason for Fiyero falling for Elphaba in the musical was the strength of her convictions, the fact that she knew what she was doing was right. Her getting a boyfriend was hardly the ''point'' of the musical so much as a side effect. Two of the show's most powerful, pivotal moments have nothing to do with the various TriangRelations, and everything to do with Elphaba going down the same journey she did in the book.
*** Both.

* How in the musical they completely flattened Galinda's personality completely. Every possible amount of depth was washed away, dyed blond, given a frilly pink tutu and told to sing about popularity in front of the giant pile of shoes over in the corner.
** G(a)linda is a popular, rich girl who's always gotten what she wanted. "Popular" is about her trying to use that to help the first real friend she's ever had, "I Couldn't Be Happier" is her trying to do the same and failing, and the Finale is about her accepting her place as a person who helps anyone in Oz who needs it. In the book she went through pretty much the same things, just changed faster because she got hit with [[spoiler:Dr. Dillamond's ''murder'']], and didn't start out quite the top of the heap. She was changed to fit each story, sure, but she's hardly flat.
*** There's quite a difference in character between a girl who learns what's truly important and becomes a mature figure for the people upon seeing a hate crime, and a full grown giddy (wo)man-child who becomes ''less'' of an airheaded bimbo after her boyfriend walks out on her.
**** I think you're being awfully harsh on Musical Glinda. I mean, she basically has to rewrite her entire idea of what is important (ie morality over fame), which is something that's been really deeply ingrained in her, and furthermore, she goes through a lot more than having her boyfriend out on her: as far as she knows, [[spoiler: Elphie is dead (in part because of her), Fiyero was tortured to death (in part because of her), Nessarose is dead ("Oh, Nessa, forgive me." from the courtyard scene, indicating that she holds herself responsible), Madame Morrible is a manipulative bitch who gets sent to prison for life, and ditto for the Wizard, though he gets exiled. So basically, there are no more heroes and all her friends are dead.]] She might have been a little shallower than she was in the book for Rule of Funny reasons, but come on, give her a break.
*** Book Glinda regains some of her giddiness and airheadedness after Elphaba leaves her, marrying for money and becoming a socialite. Then she rapidly matures again after Elphaba is murdered.
** Not to mention, books are allowed to go into depth about characters over their lives, and their deepest thought processes. Musicals have to be about 2 hours, tops, with a fifteen minute intermission, time for crowd songs, supporting characters, and Glinda splits fully half the bill with Elphaba. All things considered, I think she gets a great amount of development for a Musical character.
*** Which says some very, very sad things about character development in musicals.
**** Without saying, ''make it 12 hours long and remove all the songs'' do you have a better idea?
***** Get StephenSondheim to write it? Character development IS possible in musicals. Think movies, too--just because you can't do quite as much of it as a book doesn't excuse for shallow characters.

* It just bugs me that everyone else likes the musical better than the book.
** I second this, the play had to go with a DisneyDeath, in my opinion, i mean come on a trap door, thats an AssPull.
* It just bugs me that people complain about people liking the musical better than the book.
* It just bugs me that in the ending of the musical Elphaba and Fiyero still ended up together. The book worked at making Elphaba going crazy because of his death thus explaining her behavior in her later years. Also the complete removal of Sarima from the musical just so Elphaba won't have to feel guilt over getting with Fiyero. Essentially the book portrays her as a human who like everyone else while the play makes her into some sort of misunderstood hero which I don't think Maguire was working at.
** To be fair, they still had her go insane from grief thinking Fiyero was dead. It just happened over a shorter span of time. That, and there's a significant period of time between Fiyero's capture/EmergencyTransformation and "March of the Witch Hunters." So Elphaba was crazy for a good while, and we don't know what she was doing at that point.
** If I remember correctly, Fiyero was engaged to Glinda in the musical, so the fact that she kinda took her childhood friend's fiancée makes her a little more 'human'. Albeit it's nothing like what happened in the book but she's not completely glossed over. In real life most people would see that at least a little jerk-ish. Then again I don't know if Elphaba knew Fiyero was engaged to Glinda so...
*** Childhood friend? They were roommates in college.
* It bugs me that people are one-sided and proclaim the musical to be completely bad because it did not follow the book. It also bugs me that people are one-sided and proclaim the musical to be better than the book despite never reading it. Bottom line: It bugs me that people refuse to see (and distinguish) their own merits.
** Hear, hear. They each have their own good qualities.
** Honestly, I do that with most works (books and their movie counterparts), but strangely, I don't feel that way towards Wicked. Both are very good works in own right, with only minor differences (well, besides the ending). I personally liked the play better, which is weird because I almost always prefer the book versions of things, but both were excellent.
** I've read the book, and seen the musical, and can honestly say I'd enjoy the musical in its own merit if it weren't for the fanbase.
* TheMovie. They're planning on using some girl from ''{{Glee}}''....
** ... and your point is?
*** It's random and odd. Idina doesn't even want to play Elphaba because she says she's "too old", though though she could play her at the end of the movie when she's older.
*** It would be better, if possible, to have the same actresses play Elphaba and Glinda throughout their lives, rather than cast "Older" and "Younger." It's only a difference of about a few years, from college on - no need at all for a new cast.
*** Unless the movie will be more like the book, in which case Elphaba dies some time in her late 30s/early 40s. Should be a noticeable change.

*** I don't think we're supposed to sympathise with Elphaba once she goes completely overboard. The theme of the book/musical is that people aren't born evil, they become or are made evil(Elphaba is an example of that), not that we're supposed to excuse all of the Witches actions out of sympathy. We may sympathise with Elphaba towards the beginning of the musical and the book but once she crosses the MoralEventHorizon our sympathy stops.

* I always liked Glinda and Fiyero as a couple. I'm disappointed they didn't end up together.
** It's only in the adaptation. It gets nothing but some [[WildMassGuessing out-there theory]] by a book-only character in the book. Granted. In both versions, unless you twist Fiyero, the canon couple can seem StrangledByTheRedString to the point that I understand all the G(a)linda/Elphaba shippers. (Even if I can twist the character of Fiyero a bit to make it Work in the musical and the character of Elphaba for the Book, both while keeping everything shown to be valid, just twisting the holes.)
** Personally, I've always shipped Scarecrow/Dorothy.

* It just bugs me that in the ending of the musical Elphaba and Fiyero still ended up together. The book worked at making Elphaba going crazy because of his death thus explaining her behavior in her later years. Also the complete removal of Sarima from the musical just so Elphaba won't have to feel guilt over getting with Fiyero. Essentially the book portrays her as a human who like everyone else while the play makes her into some sort of misunderstood hero.