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** Enemy warlocks, especially Fel Orcs and eventually Kael'thas have gone all out on fel usage to the point of drinking or injecting it to harness more power at the [[PowerAtAPrice cost of visible corruption]]. Player warlocks are WillfullyWeak, as they know better than taking those extra steps and can [[TheyLookJustLikeEveryoneElse look like normal people]].
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** He certainly crossed the MoralEventHorizon before being taken over. The Culling of Stratholme is widely considered this in-universe, but it's highly debated among the fandom. Him having the ships destroyed (stranding his men in Northrend) and pinning the blame on the mercs that he hired, is far less debatable.
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** Arthas: Rise of the Lich King addresses this, showing that the arrow immobilised him so quickly that he could barely hang on to Invincible, let alone jump off or goad him to flee.
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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Sylvanas's paralyzing arrow]]
* After Arthas escapes from the Capital City in ''The Frozen Throne'', we are met with a cutscene where he's ambushed by Sylvanas, who fires a paralyzing arrow on him, which she states won't let him even run. Except... that Arthas is on a horse. Unless she's that exceptionally good of an archer to apply the arrow on both Arthas and Invincible, Arthas could either jump off Invincible or just order it to keep running.
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Trying to fix it


** It's established in WoW that the light can heal undead it just hurts like hell, it's possible necromancy can work similar, for why you can't do it on allied living unit is because they just don't trust you enough to let you, not do they have the cultist fanaticism of the cult of the damned necessary to put up with the pain without passing out

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** It's established in WoW [=WoW=] that the light can heal undead it just hurts like hell, it's possible necromancy can work similar, for why you can't do it on allied living unit is because they just don't trust you enough to let you, not do they have the cultist fanaticism of the cult of the damned necessary to put up with the pain without passing out
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** It's established in WOW that the light can heal undead it just hurts like hell, it's possible necromancy can work similar, for why you can't do it on allied living unit is because they just don't trust you enough to let you, not do they have the cultist fanaticism of the cult of the damned necessary to put up with the pain without passing out

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** It's established in WOW WoW that the light can heal undead it just hurts like hell, it's possible necromancy can work similar, for why you can't do it on allied living unit is because they just don't trust you enough to let you, not do they have the cultist fanaticism of the cult of the damned necessary to put up with the pain without passing out
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Removing Flame Bait.


** {{Fanon}} has it that Thrall ''is'' opposed...but rooting out slavers in Durotar is kind of like rooting out the mob in the United States. And don't get me ''started'' on Varian's JerkAssStu credentials. Just ''don't''.

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** {{Fanon}} has it that Thrall ''is'' opposed...but rooting out slavers in Durotar is kind of like rooting out the mob in the United States. And don't get me ''started'' on Varian's JerkAssStu {{Jerkass}} credentials. Just ''don't''.
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* After Tyrande frees Illidan from his prison, with Furion having made it abundantly clear that it was entirely devoid of his blessing, Illidan goes after the Skull of Gul'dan, with some prodding from Arthas. My question is: How did Illidan get a base from which to attack Tichondrius's forces? He's either an unknown night-elf, or The Betrayer, to any who he could enlist. The only benefactor I can see would be Tyrande, but I can imagine Furion being, well, furious if she gave Illidan some of their forces as well as freeing him. And if she did, why did nobody ever bring it up? Like, "You not only freed him, slaughtering his guards in the process, but gave him an army?!"

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* After Tyrande frees freed Illidan from his prison, with Furion having made it abundantly clear that it was entirely devoid of his blessing, Illidan goes went after the Skull of Gul'dan, with some prodding from Arthas. My question is: How did Illidan get a base from which to attack Tichondrius's forces? He's He was either an unknown night-elf, or The Betrayer, to any who he could enlist. The only benefactor I can see would be Tyrande, but I can imagine Furion being, well, furious if she gave Illidan some of their forces as well as freeing him. And if she did, why did nobody ever bring it up? Like, "You not only freed him, slaughtering his guards in the process, but gave him an army?!"
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** The problem is that the last act he committed before going to Northrend was the Culling of Stratholme, a horrific act regardless of the necessity, and at that point he still appeared to be himself. Kel'thuzad's revelation that Arthas was the Lich King's intended champion all along would indeed affect their opinions of him, but the only one to hear it was Arthas himself. It is interesting to note that his almost final words were "Father! Is it... over?".
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[[folder:Who would have fought under Illidan just after his release?]]
* After Tyrande frees Illidan from his prison, with Furion having made it abundantly clear that it was entirely devoid of his blessing, Illidan goes after the Skull of Gul'dan, with some prodding from Arthas. My question is: How did Illidan get a base from which to attack Tichondrius's forces? He's either an unknown night-elf, or The Betrayer, to any who he could enlist. The only benefactor I can see would be Tyrande, but I can imagine Furion being, well, furious if she gave Illidan some of their forces as well as freeing him. And if she did, why did nobody ever bring it up? Like, "You not only freed him, slaughtering his guards in the process, but gave him an army?!"
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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Arthas 'The Betrayer']]
* I just realized; most of Arthas's actions as Undead aren't really his own actions but Nerzhul controlling him through Frostmorne (and becoming Undead). It's not until he becomes the new Lich King that he has his free will restored. As such, during ''[=WarCraft 3=]'', shouldn't some people realize that Arthas is nothing more then a pawn like any other ghoul? The last they saw of him was him going to Northrend for some amount of time, and then when he returns he looks different, has a terribly evil looking weapon, murders his father (which no one was expecting) and then starts leading the Scourge's forces. I understand that common people would just assume that Arthas betrayed the kingdom, but certainly people who knew Arthas personally (like Uther and Jaina) would realize Arthas wasn't in control of his actions?

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** His power is directly tied to his connection to Nerzhul, so obviously after becoming one with him he recieved a major power boost, Nerzhul also doesent just have some undead powers, he is by far the most powerful necromancer azeroth has ever seen short of perhaps Galakrond, more importantly Arthas regardless of how powerful Arthas was, Frostmourne grows in power with every soul it consumes and Arthas has killed a lot of people




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** It should also be noted the merger took 3 years to complete, taking your greatest champion out of commision for 3 years while also leaving the leader of your forces partially dorment is not a move one takes lightly, it was likely he planned to do so once he felt the scourge had a more secure footing rather then take the risk of doing it now and leaving them vulnerable
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** Considering what oracles are known for, it's possible the legend far predates the event itself because someone in the past saw a glimpse of further events and knew there would eventually be an oracle
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**It's established in WOW that the light can heal undead it just hurts like hell, it's possible necromancy can work similar, for why you can't do it on allied living unit is because they just don't trust you enough to let you, not do they have the cultist fanaticism of the cult of the damned necessary to put up with the pain without passing out

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** At the start they are far weaker, arthas is on par with any other hero unit, but one thing to remember is there powers include the ability to grow stronger, both threw amassing more and more undead made from more and more powerful individuals, and from frostmourne continually feasting on souls and gaining strength

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** At the start they are far weaker, arthas Arthas is on par with any other hero unit, but one thing to remember is there powers include the ability to grow stronger, both threw amassing more and more undead made from more and more powerful individuals, and from frostmourne continually feasting on souls and gaining strength
** Arthas is as strong as he is because he's a former Paladin now wielding outright more powerful abilities with a runeblade that gives him a huge increase in power. He was already a strong Paladin, but that added together makes him incredibly powerful.



*** Frostmourne stole his soul and afterwards he became undead its not the fact hes on a horse that makes him weaker but the fact hes lost a fundamental part of himself, hes lost his previous main power source and has to adjust to his body becoming more stiff and dead

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*** Frostmourne stole his soul and afterwards he became undead its not the fact hes on a horse that makes him weaker but the fact hes lost a fundamental part of himself, hes lost his previous main power source and has to adjust to his body becoming more stiff and deaddead.
** GameplayAndStorySegregation. Arthas as a Death Knight is more powerful than he was as a Paladin, but because gameplay wise the way the campaign works, he had to be brought down to level one for balancing purposes.



* Shouldn't the war attrition rates have reduced the numbers of the Forsaken to zero by now, what with they being to dead to reproduce? And how will they replenish their ranks after there is no more Scourge, seing as they are all former Scourge?

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* Shouldn't the war attrition rates have reduced the numbers of the Forsaken to zero by now, what with they being to dead to reproduce? And how will they replenish their ranks after there is no more Scourge, seing seeing as they are all former Scourge?




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** Ner'Zhul merging with Arthas was something he came up with on his own, and was not part of the plan as far as the Burning Legion was concerned. When the Frozen Throne got damaged, Ner'Zhul contacted Arthas to return right away because he realized he was now at risk of dying and needed some way to continue to exist. While this is not outright stated, the games timeline indicates that it was a last minute plan he made to ensure he didn't die.
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** Arthas became undead in his pursuit of the power to kill Mal'ganis. Sylvanas - and presumably many others - became undead after being brutally murdered. It's at least partly a circumstantial thing.

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** At the start they are far weaker, arthas is on par with any other hero unit, but one thing to remember is there powers include the ability to grow stronger, both threw amassing more and more undead made from more and more powerful individuals, and from frostmourne continually feasting on souls and gaining strength




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**the magical link that binded them to the lich kings control was broken, regaining power wouldent fix that, the only way for him to regain control would be to rekill and reraise them again(as is implied with a forsaken death knight pc)


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** The lich king, and thus Arthas was ALSO empowered by motherfucking kil'jaeden


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** Undeaths has positives and negatives, if all you want is power like Arthas and Kel'thuzad theres bascilly no drawback other then a weakness to the light, but if you want say, any semblence of a normal life it sucks ass, your senses are dulled or non existant so food all tastes like ass, your deformed and smell like your food tastes, your emotions and especially empathy are stunted and more then likely your downstairs dont work either
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** Warlocks are accepted as necessary to defend there nation from whatever the big enemy of the expansion is, the villagers dont like them but they still know there ultimately on there side, when you death knight is pelted with fruit its not simply for being a death knight, its for being Scourge, its not till you talk to your sides respective leader that they realise you are there to help and stop throwing fruit at you




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*** Frostmourne stole his soul and afterwards he became undead its not the fact hes on a horse that makes him weaker but the fact hes lost a fundamental part of himself, hes lost his previous main power source and has to adjust to his body becoming more stiff and dead

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* First, as an acceptable break from lore, as there would otherwise be no level. Second, because Archimonde did that to Dalaran to show mortals how puny they were ("You think of yourselves as great mages? Look at MY magic!"). Third, because Archimonde was confident of his win, and thought that brute force was more than enough to get what he wanted.
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*** Arthas did see Kel'Thuzad reanimate a pair of corpses two missions before he saw the plague work its magic on living humans.
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** Ner'zhul was leaking power throughout TFT, and for most of the undead campaign, Arthas was losing power too. Ner'zhul started pumping power directly into Arthas towards the end to help Arthas regain his former strength, but that was only a small fraction of the power that Ner'zhul had lost. Thus the merging of Arthas and Ner'zhul still wouldn't have given back very much of the power that he had lost, and thus most of the undead that had gone out of control would remain out of control.
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Internet Backdraft is now Flame Bait and being dewicked per TRS.


** This question is directly followed up on in ''Cataclysm'', during some new starter quests for the Forsaken. As a result of casualties in Northrend (and presumably Varimathras' coup in the Undercity), the Forsaken are in a weakened position in terms of numbers, which would make [[spoiler: their planned war on Gilneas]] rather...difficult, to say the least. So after the death of Arthas renders a big chunk of the more sentient Scourge independent, [[spoiler: Sylvanas recruits a large number of the val'kyr to the Forsaken, who use their magic to raise new Forsaken from corpses.]] Cue the InternetBackdraft, as many fans feel the Dark Lady's finally crossed the MoralEventHorizon she's been flirting with for years with this action, and think Blizzard is setting her up for a fall a la Kael'thas. Others feel this betrays the very idea behind her FaustianRebellion by having her become the very thing she hated most (and Garrosh in game even points this out to her).

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** This question is directly followed up on in ''Cataclysm'', during some new starter quests for the Forsaken. As a result of casualties in Northrend (and presumably Varimathras' coup in the Undercity), the Forsaken are in a weakened position in terms of numbers, which would make [[spoiler: their planned war on Gilneas]] rather...difficult, to say the least. So after the death of Arthas renders a big chunk of the more sentient Scourge independent, [[spoiler: Sylvanas recruits a large number of the val'kyr to the Forsaken, who use their magic to raise new Forsaken from corpses.]] Cue the InternetBackdraft, backlash, as many fans feel the Dark Lady's finally crossed the MoralEventHorizon she's been flirting with for years with this action, and think Blizzard is setting her up for a fall a la Kael'thas. Others feel this betrays the very idea behind her FaustianRebellion by having her become the very thing she hated most (and Garrosh in game even points this out to her).
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** IIRC, by that point Arthas had only ever seen the plague turn people into zombies, not corpses outright being raised into them. Abominations maybe, but those look like they'd take some work to construct. Killing everyone in Stratholm meant that the transformation thing wouldn't work, and at worst Mal'Ganis would have to fight Arthas for control of the bodies.
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* Gold is fairly hard to come by for low levels in WOW but in one of the early barrens quest is to kill a pirate lord that is standing next to a pile of it that is as tall as a gnome yet you can't take any of it and the quest reward is a few silver pieces.

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* Gold is fairly hard to come by for low levels in WOW [=WoW=] but in one of the early barrens quest is to kill a pirate lord that is standing next to a pile of it that is as tall as a gnome yet you can't take any of it and the quest reward is a few silver pieces.



** Orgrimmar and Darnassus are both very new cities, Orgrimmar being 5 years old at the time of TBC and Darnassus 4. Every orc that lives in Orgrimmar was either part of the three ships that sailed there, or had to break out of an internment camp/other clan, Reach Booty bay, and from there sail to Ratchet (the orgrimmar-undercity alliance, and thus zeppelin line, was a fairly recent thing at the time of WoW, and the only faction to hold big ports on both sides of the ocean is the steamwheedle cartel). Darnassus was founded as part of a highly controversial, failed project, is surrounded by corruption, and, most importantly, was not needed housing-wise. Honestly, the issue is more why those two cities have several thousand citizens.

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** Orgrimmar and Darnassus are both very new cities, Orgrimmar being 5 years old at the time of TBC and Darnassus 4. Every orc that lives in Orgrimmar was either part of the three ships that sailed there, or had to break out of an internment camp/other clan, Reach Booty bay, and from there sail to Ratchet (the orgrimmar-undercity alliance, and thus zeppelin line, was a fairly recent thing at the time of WoW, [=WoW=], and the only faction to hold big ports on both sides of the ocean is the steamwheedle cartel). Darnassus was founded as part of a highly controversial, failed project, is surrounded by corruption, and, most importantly, was not needed housing-wise. Honestly, the issue is more why those two cities have several thousand citizens.



** Besides which, the technology of the races HAS been advancing over that last few expansions. For example, when WoW was first released, the Horde made use of simple catapults, barely-armored infantry, spear throwers, and wooden fortifications. Fast-forward to Wrath, where they are shown to be using Demolishers and Steam Tanks, fully-armored soldiers, gunmen, and metal-and-stone fortifications. not to mention that their battle tactics of "Zerg the enemy" has fallen out of favor for organized battles, sieges, and mechanized warfare. A good example of these changes can be seen in Warsong Hold, particularly in the conversation between Saurfang and Garrosh, where we have Saurfang (who represents the technological advancement of the Horde) lecturing Garrosh (representing the zerg-and-destroy mentality of the older Horde) on the finer points of having clear supply lines. It can be found [[http://www.wowwiki.com/Varok_Saurfang#Dialogue_with_Garrosh_in_Warsong_Hold here]]

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** Besides which, the technology of the races HAS been advancing over that last few expansions. For example, when WoW [=WoW=] was first released, the Horde made use of simple catapults, barely-armored infantry, spear throwers, and wooden fortifications. Fast-forward to Wrath, where they are shown to be using Demolishers and Steam Tanks, fully-armored soldiers, gunmen, and metal-and-stone fortifications. not to mention that their battle tactics of "Zerg the enemy" has fallen out of favor for organized battles, sieges, and mechanized warfare. A good example of these changes can be seen in Warsong Hold, particularly in the conversation between Saurfang and Garrosh, where we have Saurfang (who represents the technological advancement of the Horde) lecturing Garrosh (representing the zerg-and-destroy mentality of the older Horde) on the finer points of having clear supply lines. It can be found [[http://www.wowwiki.com/Varok_Saurfang#Dialogue_with_Garrosh_in_Warsong_Hold here]]
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there is a name, my bad


** I guess it's elaboration time. Naga are an incredibly mutated race due to corruption from the Old Gods. Females on average are born with four arms, and become exceptional magic wielders due to this. Sea Witches, especially powerful casters, have six. Male naga are less intelligent than females on average (although they're not necessarily any dumber than any other intelligent humanoid) but have thicker hides and sharp teeth to make up for it. This is taken to the extreme with the naga brutes, who are truly unintelligent but also extremely tanky naga, but not with the unnamed naga anamoly variety, which are males that appear to be covered in a form of natural armor, and serve as tactical commanders for small armies. Naga can aspire to leave their ranks though, and exceptions are encountered throughout the game. In the case of female warrior naga, a female battlemaiden is the focus for a questline in Vashj'ir. For the males, I don't know if an entirely magic devoted representative can be found (although an unaffiliated naga summoner, Skar'this, exists), but I believe Fathom-Lord Zin'jatar had the ability to summon waves of water

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** I guess it's elaboration time. Naga are an incredibly mutated race due to corruption from the Old Gods. Females on average are born with four arms, and become exceptional magic wielders due to this. Sea Witches, especially powerful casters, have six. Male naga are less intelligent than females on average (although they're not necessarily any dumber than any other intelligent humanoid) but have thicker hides and sharp teeth to make up for it. This is taken to the extreme with the naga brutes, who are truly unintelligent but also extremely tanky naga, but not with the unnamed naga anamoly variety, lords, which are males that appear to be covered in a form of natural armor, and serve as tactical commanders for small armies. Naga can aspire to leave their ranks though, and exceptions are encountered throughout the game. In the case of female warrior naga, a female battlemaiden is the focus for a questline in Vashj'ir. For the males, I don't know if an entirely magic devoted representative can be found (although an unaffiliated naga summoner, Skar'this, exists), but I believe Fathom-Lord Zin'jatar had the ability to summon waves of waterwater.
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** I guess it's elaboration time. Naga are an incredibly mutated race due to corruption from the Old Gods. Females on average are born with four arms, and become exceptional magic wielders due to this. Sea Witches, especially powerful casters, have six. Male naga are less intelligent than females on average (although they're not necessarily any dumber than any other intelligent humanoid) but have thicker hides and sharp teeth to make up for it. This is taken to the extreme with the naga brutes, who are truly unintelligent but also extremely tanky naga, but not with the unnamed naga anamoly variety, which are males that appear to be covered in a form of natural armor, and serve as tactical commanders for small armies. Naga can aspire to leave their ranks though, and exceptions are encountered throughout the game. In the case of female warrior naga, a female battlemaiden is the focus for a questline in Vashj'ir. For the males, I don't know if an entirely magic devoted representative can be found (although an unaffiliated naga summoner, Skar'this, exists), but I believe Fathom-Lord Zin'jatar had the ability to summon waves of water
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*** Jaina was mostly using conventional forces (soldiers with swords, bows, and arrows, etc.); it's not like her entire base was built out of magic. He may have been able to use it against her, specifically (assuming he could do that - he hit Dalaran's structures, not its people as proven by some having escaped in the sequel), but not against her army.
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*** The same magic that Jaina used; why didn't Archimonde turn it against her too?
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** I think the point was that the more directly Guardians intervene, the greater the danger of them effing things up. Aegwynn defeating Sargeras, for example, led to Sargeras corrupting Medivh. Who knows what the Legion might have done if Medivh had actually used his "tremendous power" during the Third War? (At the very least, Tichondrius would have figured out that he was mistaken in assuming that Medivh was dead.)
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*** We see the inhabitants of Stratholme piling bodies onto pyres in the next interlude, after Arthas and his men have departed for Northrend, so if Arthas and his men had mangled or burned the bodies, they clearly hadn't done a very thorough job of it.

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