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Added two headscratchers (and one possible explanation)
Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
* In Kat's testimony, she mentioned that the teachers and Prinicpal Bolan feed into a toxic school culture. What was the type of toxic school culture that she was referring to?
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* In Kat's testimony, she mentioned that the teachers and Prinicpal Principal Bolan feed into a toxic school culture. What was the type of toxic school culture that she was referring to?
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
** Probably Mr. Porter.
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** Probably Mr. Porter.Porter.
* Who passed on the tapes to Clay — or Sherri, Ryan, Tyler and anyone outside the core group, for that matter? Justin, the first recipient of the tapes, was friends with Jessica, Bryce, Zach, Alex and Marcus — he would have likely informed all of them about the existence of the tapes and the allegations on them before actually "passing" them on like they were supposed to do. Since most of them are doubtful about Hannah's intentions, it's unlikely that Justin, Jessica, Marcus or any of the other more insensitive characters would have simply passed them on because it's "what Hannah would have wanted." While it's understandable that they might at least inform people like Courtney and Ryan of the tapes' existence in order to make them aware of the situation, the likelihood that they'd willingly reach out to Tyler, whom they all hold in total contempt and barely acknowledge the existence of, and Clay, whom they know from the tapes held a special place in Hannah's heart and is known to be a "good kid" are pretty low. Considering how desperate they are to keep Bryce uninformed of their existence, the chances that they'd let them get to Clay are low. There's a second set of tapes, but only one "second" set, and they're being used as collateral.
** Two possible explanations: One, Tony has more that a second copy of the tapes; he has been making copies as the week goes on to ensure that everyone is informed. The other explanation is that Tony checked up on the likes of Justin, Jessica et. al and retrieved the tapes. He doesn't hold much influence among them, but judging by the actions of him and his brothers, he could possibly pose a physical threat.
* On top of Hannah letting Clay dangle and thinking he's done something wrong, why do the rest of the recipients seemingly tease Clay into thinking his reason for being on the tapes was something horrible? While perhaps they are doing this to intimidate him into dropping it (although this would be fairly stupid, since convincing a person that they're implicated would probably motivate them to listen more), they also discuss Clay's presence on the tapes when he isn't around, and act as though he will freak out when he gets to his tapes. The truth is, they've all heard Clay's tape and know that it essentially exonerates him.
* Who passed on the tapes to Clay — or Sherri, Ryan, Tyler and anyone outside the core group, for that matter? Justin, the first recipient of the tapes, was friends with Jessica, Bryce, Zach, Alex and Marcus — he would have likely informed all of them about the existence of the tapes and the allegations on them before actually "passing" them on like they were supposed to do. Since most of them are doubtful about Hannah's intentions, it's unlikely that Justin, Jessica, Marcus or any of the other more insensitive characters would have simply passed them on because it's "what Hannah would have wanted." While it's understandable that they might at least inform people like Courtney and Ryan of the tapes' existence in order to make them aware of the situation, the likelihood that they'd willingly reach out to Tyler, whom they all hold in total contempt and barely acknowledge the existence of, and Clay, whom they know from the tapes held a special place in Hannah's heart and is known to be a "good kid" are pretty low. Considering how desperate they are to keep Bryce uninformed of their existence, the chances that they'd let them get to Clay are low. There's a second set of tapes, but only one "second" set, and they're being used as collateral.
** Two possible explanations: One, Tony has more that a second copy of the tapes; he has been making copies as the week goes on to ensure that everyone is informed. The other explanation is that Tony checked up on the likes of Justin, Jessica et. al and retrieved the tapes. He doesn't hold much influence among them, but judging by the actions of him and his brothers, he could possibly pose a physical threat.
* On top of Hannah letting Clay dangle and thinking he's done something wrong, why do the rest of the recipients seemingly tease Clay into thinking his reason for being on the tapes was something horrible? While perhaps they are doing this to intimidate him into dropping it (although this would be fairly stupid, since convincing a person that they're implicated would probably motivate them to listen more), they also discuss Clay's presence on the tapes when he isn't around, and act as though he will freak out when he gets to his tapes. The truth is, they've all heard Clay's tape and know that it essentially exonerates him.
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Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* In Episode 2, Clay is called to the office because for some reason, Liberty High school staff put him on attendance alert, despite Clay claiming he has attended all of his classes. Who called the school to put Clay on attendance alert?
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* In Episode 2, Clay is called to the office because for some reason, Liberty High school staff put him on attendance alert, despite Clay claiming he has attended all of his classes. Who called the school to put Clay on attendance alert?alert?
** Probably Mr. Porter.
** Probably Mr. Porter.
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Changed line(s) 30 (click to see context) from:
*** They also failed to treat their students with the proper care as a educational institute and only started kicking their dormant policies onto gear only after Hannah was dead and buried?
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*** They also failed to treat their students with the proper care as a educational institute and only started kicking their dormant policies onto gear only after Hannah was dead and buried?buried?
* In Episode 2, Clay is called to the office because for some reason, Liberty High school staff put him on attendance alert, despite Clay claiming he has attended all of his classes. Who called the school to put Clay on attendance alert?
* In Episode 2, Clay is called to the office because for some reason, Liberty High school staff put him on attendance alert, despite Clay claiming he has attended all of his classes. Who called the school to put Clay on attendance alert?
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*** OP Here: Apologies, when I initially posted this it was before the series had come out. The question was in reference to the book, the series fixed this little head scratcher.
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Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
** She's referring to how at Liberty High male jocks are placed on a pedestal, and feel entitled to treat women horribly and bully other students. She feels that these attitudes are reinforced by the school through the actions of their staff (such as giving Bryce a leadership award, the basketball coach/history teacher making attending basketball games homework, Monty getting a slap on the wrist for beating Alex up). Also Mr. Porter's victim blaming approach to Tyler being bullied and Hannah [[spoiler: being raped]] reinforces the toxic culture at Liberty. The school only covers up graffiti slut-shaming and bullying people once it becomes an issue in the Baker's lawsuit.
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** She's referring to how at Liberty High male jocks are placed on a pedestal, and feel entitled to treat women horribly and bully other students. She feels that these attitudes are reinforced by the school through the actions of their staff (such as giving Bryce a leadership award, the basketball coach/history teacher making attending basketball games homework, Monty getting a slap on the wrist for beating Alex up). Also Mr. Porter's victim blaming approach to Tyler being bullied and Hannah [[spoiler: being raped]] reinforces the toxic culture at Liberty. The school only covers up graffiti slut-shaming and bullying people once it becomes an issue in the Baker's lawsuit.lawsuit.
*** They also failed to treat their students with the proper care as a educational institute and only started kicking their dormant policies onto gear only after Hannah was dead and buried?
*** They also failed to treat their students with the proper care as a educational institute and only started kicking their dormant policies onto gear only after Hannah was dead and buried?
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Changed line(s) 27 (click to see context) from:
* In Kat's testimony, she mentioned that the teachers and Prinicpal Bolan feed into a toxic school culture. What was the type of toxic school culture that she was referring to?
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* In Kat's testimony, she mentioned that the teachers and Prinicpal Bolan feed into a toxic school culture. What was the type of toxic school culture that she was referring to?to?
** She's referring to how at Liberty High male jocks are placed on a pedestal, and feel entitled to treat women horribly and bully other students. She feels that these attitudes are reinforced by the school through the actions of their staff (such as giving Bryce a leadership award, the basketball coach/history teacher making attending basketball games homework, Monty getting a slap on the wrist for beating Alex up). Also Mr. Porter's victim blaming approach to Tyler being bullied and Hannah [[spoiler: being raped]] reinforces the toxic culture at Liberty. The school only covers up graffiti slut-shaming and bullying people once it becomes an issue in the Baker's lawsuit.
** She's referring to how at Liberty High male jocks are placed on a pedestal, and feel entitled to treat women horribly and bully other students. She feels that these attitudes are reinforced by the school through the actions of their staff (such as giving Bryce a leadership award, the basketball coach/history teacher making attending basketball games homework, Monty getting a slap on the wrist for beating Alex up). Also Mr. Porter's victim blaming approach to Tyler being bullied and Hannah [[spoiler: being raped]] reinforces the toxic culture at Liberty. The school only covers up graffiti slut-shaming and bullying people once it becomes an issue in the Baker's lawsuit.
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Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
** Liberty High has a disproportionate number of assholes in the student body, so the school requires more ethics classes than traditional high schools.
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** Liberty High has a disproportionate number of assholes in the student body, so the school requires more ethics classes than traditional high schools.schools.
* In Kat's testimony, she mentioned that the teachers and Prinicpal Bolan feed into a toxic school culture. What was the type of toxic school culture that she was referring to?
* In Kat's testimony, she mentioned that the teachers and Prinicpal Bolan feed into a toxic school culture. What was the type of toxic school culture that she was referring to?
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Clearing up a headscratcher
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
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*** That is, if his parents (in the series, that is) are home at all. It doesn't really look like they care too much about their son because they aren't home that much. Going on vacation without him etc.
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Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
*** To be clear, Hannah was not asking Porter if he could magically make Bryce disappear. She was asking if, assuming she reported what happened to her and named her attacker, Porter could assure that he would face consequences for his actions, and that she would never have to face him at school. Now, the fact that Porter cannot assure her that she would be protected from her rapist if she came forward may not be entirely his fault, but instead the result of a larger systemic issue concerning justice for rape victims. However, be that as it may, combined with the fact that Porter's automatic assumption to her saying "something bad happened to me at a party" was that she had consensual sex and later regretted it, it's quite understandable that she didn't want to come forward. And whether or not it's true, the response to rape victim who doesn't want to report her rapist is not "Then you need to find a way to move on." Ultimately, the reason Porter is on the tape is not because he doesn't give Hannah a satisfactory way to deal with her rape. It's because he was unfortunately very distracted (maybe not entirely his fault) during their session, victim-blamed her (perhaps accidentally) for her own rape, and did not recognize that she was obviously extremely depressed. This last one is the main one, and while Porter definitely means well and would have liked to do right by Hannah, he does ultimately fail to do so.
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*** To be clear, Hannah was not asking Porter if he could magically make Bryce disappear. She was asking if, assuming she reported what happened to her and named her attacker, Porter could assure that he would face consequences for his actions, and that she would never have to face him at school. Now, the fact that Porter cannot assure her that she would be protected from her rapist if she came forward may not be entirely his fault, but instead the result of a larger systemic issue concerning justice for rape victims. However, be that as it may, combined with the fact that Porter's automatic assumption to her saying "something bad happened to me at a party" was that she had consensual sex and later regretted it, it's quite understandable that she didn't want to come forward. And whether or not it's true, the response to rape victim who doesn't want to report her rapist is not "Then you need to find a way to move on." Ultimately, the reason Porter is on the tape is not because he doesn't give Hannah a satisfactory way to deal with her rape. It's because he was unfortunately very distracted (maybe not entirely his fault) during their session, victim-blamed her (perhaps accidentally) for her own rape, and did not recognize that she was obviously extremely depressed. This last one is the main one, and while Porter definitely means well and would have liked to do right by help Hannah, he does ultimately fail to do so.
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*** To be clear, Hannah was not asking Porter if he could magically make Bryce disappear. She was asking if, assuming she reported what happened to her and named her attacker, Porter could assure that he would face consequences for his actions, and that she would never have to face him at school. Now, the fact that Porter cannot assure her that she would be protected from her rapist if she came forward may not be entirely his fault, but instead the result of a larger systemic issue concerning justice for rape victims. However, be that as it may, combined with the fact that Porter's automatic assumption to her saying "something bad happened to me at a party" was that she had consensual sex and later regretted it, it's quite understandable that she didn't want to come forward. And whether or not it's true, the response to rape victim who doesn't want to report her rapist is not "Then you need to find a way to move on." Ultimately, the reason Porter is on the tape is not because he doesn't give Hannah a satisfactory way to deal with her rape. It's because he was unfortunately very distracted (maybe not entirely his fault) during their session, victim-blamed her (perhaps accidentally) for her own rape, and did not recognize that she was obviously extremely depressed. This last one is the main one, and while Porter definitely means well and would have liked to do right by Hannah, he does ultimately fail to do so.
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Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
** It's a TwoTeacherSchool.
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** It's a TwoTeacherSchool.TwoTeacherSchool.
** Liberty High has a disproportionate number of assholes in the student body, so the school requires more ethics classes than traditional high schools.
** Liberty High has a disproportionate number of assholes in the student body, so the school requires more ethics classes than traditional high schools.
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Changed line(s) 7,8 (click to see context) from:
** By this point Hannah has become so traumatised that she's developed a massive victim complex. She believes that nearly everyone is out to get her or that everyone hates her. So she simply can't bring herself to tell the truth. She mentions that Mr Porter was not a good replacement for Mrs Antilly, and from what we see of Mrs Antilly she seems like the kind of counsellor who would be able to get more out of her patients. She would not let Hannah leave without getting to the bottom of whatever's bothering her. So I get the feeling that Hannah wants him to essentially be Mrs Antilly. When he gives her a very clinical response, she feels like she has no one on her side.
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** By this point Hannah has become so traumatised that she's developed a massive victim complex. She complex and arguably paranoia as the result of the events that happened to her. She, at that point, believes that nearly everyone is out to get her or that everyone hates her.her for what she has done. So she simply can't bring herself to tell the truth. She mentions that Mr Porter was not a good replacement for Mrs Antilly, and from what we see of Mrs Antilly she seems like the kind of counsellor who would be able to get more out of her patients. She would not let Hannah leave without getting to the bottom of whatever's bothering her. So I get the feeling that Hannah wants him to essentially be Mrs Antilly. When he gives her a very clinical response, she feels like she has no one on her side.
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
** In the series, Clay doesn't follow the chain. The chain in the series was Justin > Jessica > Alex > Tyler > Courtney > Marcus > Zach > Ryan > Justin > Sherri > Clay > Bryce > Mr. Porter, and according to the rules set out by Hannah, he was supposed to give the tapes onto the person on the 12th tape, which was Bryce, after he is done with them. But however, Clay decides, instead of giving it to Bryce like the rules told him to, to give it to the person on the 13th tape, which was Mr. Porter. The in-universe reason is that Clay knows that Mr. Porter, as a teacher, will have to report the tapes to the authorities after he is done with the tapes.
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** In the series, Clay doesn't follow the chain. The chain in the series was Justin > Jessica > Alex > Tyler > Courtney > Marcus > Zach > Ryan > Justin (assumed Ryan passed it on to Sherri) > Sherri > Clay > Bryce > Mr. Porter, and according to the rules set out by Hannah, he was supposed to give the tapes onto the person on the 12th tape, which was Bryce, after he is done with them. But however, Clay decides, instead of giving it to Bryce like the rules told him to, to give it to the person on the 13th tape, which was Mr. Porter. The in-universe reason is that Clay knows that Mr. Porter, as a teacher, will have to report the tapes to the authorities after he is done with the tapes.
Changed line(s) 19,21 (click to see context) from:
** ButForMeItWasTuesday: Mr. Porter has grown desensitized to outbursts from students, and what is an intense problem for them is just another day in the office for him. It's also implied that because of his experiences at an inner-city school where "kids shot kids", he considers Liberty High students privileged and petty in comparison.
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** ButForMeItWasTuesday: Mr. Porter has grown desensitized to outbursts from students, and what is an intense problem for them is just another day in the office for him. It's also implied that because of his experiences at an inner-city school where "kids shot kids", he considers Liberty High students privileged and petty in comparison.
comparison, which is not really far off from the truth from what we've seen.
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Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
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**ButForMeItWasTuesday: Mr. Porter has grown desensitized to outbursts from students, and what is an intense problem for them is just another day in the office for him. It's also implied that because of his experiences at an inner-city school where "kids shot kids", he considers Liberty High students privileged and petty in comparison.
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Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* The Asian ethics teacher is someone that Clay has sophomore AND junior year? how many semesters of ethics does the state require a junior to have?
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* The Asian ethics teacher is someone that Clay has sophomore AND junior year? how many semesters of ethics does the state require a junior to have?have?
** It's a TwoTeacherSchool.
** It's a TwoTeacherSchool.
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Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
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**Courtney says her fathers have dealt with intense homophobia their entire lives (and she has by extension). She also feels that it would perpetuate the gay parents raise gay kids myth. She also has a crippling fear of disappointing her parents (remember when she told Hannah she'd never lied to them before?), and shattering the reputation she's created. As her parents clearly think she's straight (one Dad ships her with Marcus apparently), she'd consider coming out as letting them down.
**Also the only influential people at school who know are also on the tapes, and they aren't going to out her at the risk of revealing their own secrets.
**Also the only influential people at school who know are also on the tapes, and they aren't going to out her at the risk of revealing their own secrets.
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Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
*** It's actually better that Clay bypassed Bryce and passed them on to Mr. Porter. Bryce's family apparently has money and power and would do anything they could to protect him from rape charges. Even knowing the tapes were out there would have given them time to find and destroy them (including Tony's copy), work to legally suppress them, or otherwise plan a counter-attack.
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*** It's actually better that Clay bypassed Bryce and passed them on to Mr. Porter. Bryce's family apparently has money and power and would do anything they could to protect him from rape charges. Even knowing the tapes were out there would have given them time to find and destroy them (including Tony's copy), work to legally suppress them, or otherwise plan a counter-attack.counter-attack.
* Why is Courtney still scared of being outed? It seems that the most popular and influential people in school know her secret anyway
* Alex and Tyler flat-out say terrible things to Mr. Porter's face, show every warning of having been deeply affected by something and storm out of Mr. Porter's office before providing any explanation other than "why do you think?". How can he be so incompetent as to not call their parents, call them back to their office and have them explain their cryptic messages, etc.
* The Asian ethics teacher is someone that Clay has sophomore AND junior year? how many semesters of ethics does the state require a junior to have?
* Why is Courtney still scared of being outed? It seems that the most popular and influential people in school know her secret anyway
* Alex and Tyler flat-out say terrible things to Mr. Porter's face, show every warning of having been deeply affected by something and storm out of Mr. Porter's office before providing any explanation other than "why do you think?". How can he be so incompetent as to not call their parents, call them back to their office and have them explain their cryptic messages, etc.
* The Asian ethics teacher is someone that Clay has sophomore AND junior year? how many semesters of ethics does the state require a junior to have?
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**** Yes. Again, Hannah didn't want to accept those as options. ''In her own words'', the only thing she was willing to accept was a magical fantasy realm in which Bryce "disappeared and she never had to see his face again" but ''without'' reporting a rape. That isn't physically possible. Mr. Porter recognized this, rightfully, as impossible, and offered another option. Hannah wasn't willing to accept this, and so we got the ending we did. There was '''no''' reason for her to not report what happened as a rape, and '''no''' reason to not see what Mr. Porter's solutions were.
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*** To be fair, Mr. Porter explicitly states he is not trained as a therapist. He can't treat Hannah for anything. He could have suggested Hannah see a therapist, but that's really the only thing he could have done differently. And Hannah's failure to reach out to her parents or to Clay isn't really something you can blame on Mr. Porter.
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Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** For his book counterpart, it seems that Clay did it because it's what Hannah wanted. He's been badly affected by her death, so he's probably not thinking in his right mind. He is only sixteen afterall. Clay also might feel guilt anyway for not doing anything that could have saved Hannah, so mailing the tapes along as she wanted might be a way to make up for that in his mind.
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** For his book counterpart, it seems that Clay did it because it's what Hannah wanted. He's been badly affected by her death, so he's probably not thinking in his right mind. He is only sixteen afterall. Clay also might feel guilt anyway for not doing anything that could have saved Hannah, so mailing the tapes along as she wanted might be a way to make up for that in his mind.mind.
*** It's actually better that Clay bypassed Bryce and passed them on to Mr. Porter. Bryce's family apparently has money and power and would do anything they could to protect him from rape charges. Even knowing the tapes were out there would have given them time to find and destroy them (including Tony's copy), work to legally suppress them, or otherwise plan a counter-attack.
*** It's actually better that Clay bypassed Bryce and passed them on to Mr. Porter. Bryce's family apparently has money and power and would do anything they could to protect him from rape charges. Even knowing the tapes were out there would have given them time to find and destroy them (including Tony's copy), work to legally suppress them, or otherwise plan a counter-attack.
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Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
** In the series, he doesn't follow the chain. The chain in the series was Justin > Jessica > Alex > Tyler > Courtney > Marcus > Zach > Ryan > Justin > Sherri > Clay > Bryce > Mr. Porter, and according to the rules set out by Hannah, he was supposed to give the tapes onto the person on the 12th tape, which was Bryce, but however Clay instead gives it to the person on the 13th tape.
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** In the series, he Clay doesn't follow the chain. The chain in the series was Justin > Jessica > Alex > Tyler > Courtney > Marcus > Zach > Ryan > Justin > Sherri > Clay > Bryce > Mr. Porter, and according to the rules set out by Hannah, he was supposed to give the tapes onto the person on the 12th tape, which was Bryce, but however after he is done with them. But however, Clay decides, instead gives of giving it to Bryce like the rules told him to, to give it to the person on the 13th tape.tape, which was Mr. Porter. The in-universe reason is that Clay knows that Mr. Porter, as a teacher, will have to report the tapes to the authorities after he is done with the tapes.
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Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
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** By this point Hannah has become so traumatised that she's developed a massive victim complex. She believes that nearly everyone is out to get her or that everyone hates her. So she simply can't bring herself to tell the truth. She mentions that Mr Porter was not a good replacement for Mrs Antilly, and from what we see of Mrs Antilly she seems like the kind of counsellor who would be able to get more out of her patients. She would not let Hannah leave without getting to the bottom of whatever's bothering her. So I get the feeling that Hannah wants him to essentially be Mrs Antilly. When he gives her a very clinical response, she feels like she has no one on her side.
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** In the series, he doesn't follow the chain. The chain in the series was Justin > Jessica > Alex > Tyler > Courtney > Marcus > Zach > Ryan > Justin > Sherri > Clay > Bryce > Mr. Porter, and according to the rules set out by Hannah, he was supposed to give the tapes onto the person on the 12th tape, which was Bryce, but however Clay instead gives it to the person on the 13th tape.
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** In the series, he doesn't follow the chain. The chain in the series was Justin > Jessica > Alex > Tyler > Courtney > Marcus > Zach > Ryan > Justin > Sherri > Clay > Bryce > Mr. Porter, and according to the rules set out by Hannah, he was supposed to give the tapes onto the person on the 12th tape, which was Bryce, but however Clay instead gives it to the person on the 13th tape.tape.
** For his book counterpart, it seems that Clay did it because it's what Hannah wanted. He's been badly affected by her death, so he's probably not thinking in his right mind. He is only sixteen afterall. Clay also might feel guilt anyway for not doing anything that could have saved Hannah, so mailing the tapes along as she wanted might be a way to make up for that in his mind.
** For his book counterpart, it seems that Clay did it because it's what Hannah wanted. He's been badly affected by her death, so he's probably not thinking in his right mind. He is only sixteen afterall. Clay also might feel guilt anyway for not doing anything that could have saved Hannah, so mailing the tapes along as she wanted might be a way to make up for that in his mind.
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Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
* Why did Clay send the tapes to the next person? Hannah said things in the tapes that could potentially stop a rapist from hurting more people. The whole point of the second set was to basically blackmail the people Hannah deemed responsible for her miseries, and force them to keep the tapes going. But, Clay didn't do anything. Hannah herself said so. He could have refused to send the tapes to the next person or send the tapes to the cops. Why continue the chain?
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* Why did Clay send the tapes to the next person? Hannah said things in the tapes that could potentially stop a rapist from hurting more people. The whole point of the second set was to basically blackmail the people Hannah deemed responsible for her miseries, and force them to keep the tapes going. But, Clay didn't do anything. Hannah herself said so. He could have refused to send the tapes to the next person or send the tapes to the cops. Why continue the chain?chain?
** In the series, he doesn't follow the chain. The chain in the series was Justin > Jessica > Alex > Tyler > Courtney > Marcus > Zach > Ryan > Justin > Sherri > Clay > Bryce > Mr. Porter, and according to the rules set out by Hannah, he was supposed to give the tapes onto the person on the 12th tape, which was Bryce, but however Clay instead gives it to the person on the 13th tape.
** In the series, he doesn't follow the chain. The chain in the series was Justin > Jessica > Alex > Tyler > Courtney > Marcus > Zach > Ryan > Justin > Sherri > Clay > Bryce > Mr. Porter, and according to the rules set out by Hannah, he was supposed to give the tapes onto the person on the 12th tape, which was Bryce, but however Clay instead gives it to the person on the 13th tape.
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Responding to Mr Porter's lack of treating Hannah
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*** No. Just no. There are more than two options here. When watching it, my immediate thought was that an obvious third option could be to have her come in for regular treatment for PTSD and depression, as simply 'moving on' isn't an option for most. This would not require Hannah to report Bryce, and will make sure that she is getting the help she needs. In future sessions, maybe Hannah may wish to report him, or maybe she will be able to properly heal from the trauma of being raped. She may be able to tell her parents what is going on so that they can help her further. Lots of things could happen, which can't because Mr Porter did a textbook fail of 'what not to do when talking to a victim of rape'.
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Changed line(s) 3,4 (click to see context) from:
*** There is definitely denying that Mr. Porter "failed" completely, or at all. He gave her the only two reasonable options: she can either report what happened as a rape to him and he would do everything he possibly could to help, or she could do nothing. ''Those were the only two options available to her, no matter what anyone wished was the case.'' It was her decision to do nothing. She wanted a third option, which in her own words was for her rapist to disappear and never be seen again, which is, of course, literally impossible. Especially when the literal last decision for whether or not she committed suicide was to ''walk out of his office and see if he follows her after telling him she will just get over it'', which is absolutely absurd. We have no idea if he would have investigated her issues, called her into the office again later, tried to help her in another way, etc., because she immediately killed herself following what she deemed a failure on ''his'' part.
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*** There At least in the series adaptation, there is definitely denying that Mr. Porter "failed" completely, or at all. He gave her the only two reasonable options: she can either report what happened as a rape to him and he would do everything he possibly could to help, or she could do nothing. ''Those were the only two options available to her, no matter what anyone wished was the case.'' It was her decision to do nothing. She wanted a third option, which in her own words was for her rapist to disappear and never be seen again, which is, of course, literally impossible. Especially when the literal last decision for whether or not she committed suicide was to ''walk out of his office and see if he follows her after telling him she will just get over it'', which is absolutely absurd. We have no idea if he would have investigated her issues, called her into the office again later, tried to help her in another way, etc., because she immediately killed herself following what she deemed a failure on ''his'' part.
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*** There is definitely denying that Mr. Porter "failed" completely, or at all. He gave her the only two reasonable options: she can either report what happened as a rape to him and he would do everything he possibly could to help, or she could do nothing. ''Those were the only two options available to her, no matter what anyone wished was the case.'' It was her decision to do nothing. She wanted a third option, which in her own words was for her rapist to disappear and never be seen again, which is, of course, literally impossible. Especially when the literal last decision for whether or not she committed suicide was to ''walk out of his office and see if he follows her after telling him she will just get over it'', which is absolutely absurd. We have no idea if he would have investigated her issues, called her into the office again later, tried to help her in another way, etc., because she immediately killed herself following what she deemed a failure on ''his'' part.
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** Exactly how much Hannah is an Unreliable Narrator is up to the individual reader to decide. But just because she'd already made six tapes does not mean she wasn't looking for a last chance when she went to see Mr. Porter. Had Mr. Porter convinced her to change her mind, she could have easily destroyed the tapes, hidden them, maybe even sent the ones about Bryce to the police. The fact that she made the previous tapes in no way, shape or form determines that she was going to kill herself regardless of what Mr. Porter said. She was definitely on the verge of making her decision but that doesn't mean she didn't completely make up her mind at the point she said she did (ie after seeing Mr. Porter). Whether you believe Hannah had already made her decision or not, there's no denying that, as a counselor (and therefore there to prevent this kind of thing), Mr. Porter failed spectacularly - and yes, this troper believes he should have seen through the hints despite Hannah never outright saying she was considering suicide because by that stage, Hannah seemed to be showing all the classic signs of feeling suicidal.
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** Exactly how much Hannah is an Unreliable Narrator is up to the individual reader to decide. But just because she'd already made six tapes does not mean she wasn't looking for a last chance when she went to see Mr. Porter. Had Mr. Porter convinced her to change her mind, she could have easily destroyed the tapes, hidden them, maybe even sent the ones about Bryce to the police. The fact that she made the previous tapes in no way, shape or form determines that she was going to kill herself regardless of what Mr. Porter said. She was definitely on the verge of making her decision but that doesn't mean she didn't completely make up her mind at the point she said she did (ie after seeing Mr. Porter). Whether you believe Hannah had already made her decision or not, there's no denying that, as a counselor (and therefore there to prevent this kind of thing), Mr. Porter failed spectacularly - and yes, this troper believes he should have seen through the hints despite Hannah never outright saying she was considering suicide because by that stage, Hannah seemed to be showing all the classic signs of feeling suicidal.suicidal.
* Why did Clay send the tapes to the next person? Hannah said things in the tapes that could potentially stop a rapist from hurting more people. The whole point of the second set was to basically blackmail the people Hannah deemed responsible for her miseries, and force them to keep the tapes going. But, Clay didn't do anything. Hannah herself said so. He could have refused to send the tapes to the next person or send the tapes to the cops. Why continue the chain?
* Why did Clay send the tapes to the next person? Hannah said things in the tapes that could potentially stop a rapist from hurting more people. The whole point of the second set was to basically blackmail the people Hannah deemed responsible for her miseries, and force them to keep the tapes going. But, Clay didn't do anything. Hannah herself said so. He could have refused to send the tapes to the next person or send the tapes to the cops. Why continue the chain?
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* Hannah seems to be fishing for Mr. Porter to give her a response she doesn't like so that she'll have an excuse to walk out on him (she even recorded the first six tapes before bothering to go see him the first place, making it very clear that [[UnreliableNarrator despite her claims to the contrary, she doesn't actually want him to "succeed" in talking her down]]), while he's struggling to get enough details from her to even be able to respond in any meaningful way. But Porter is right when he responds to Hannah's question about what she can do about the party situation (even though she has misled him on what the situation ''is''): She can do ''something'' or she can do ''nothing''. He even offers her assistance in doing ''something'' before she cuts him off to get to the "fail" answer she wants.
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* Hannah seems to be fishing for Mr. Porter to give her a response she doesn't like so that she'll have an excuse to walk out on him (she even recorded the first six tapes before bothering to go see him the first place, making it very clear that [[UnreliableNarrator despite her claims to the contrary, she doesn't actually want him to "succeed" in talking her down]]), while he's struggling to get enough details from her to even be able to respond in any meaningful way. But Porter is right when he responds to Hannah's question about what she can do about the party situation (even though she has misled him on what the situation ''is''): She can do ''something'' or she can do ''nothing''. He even offers her assistance in doing ''something'' before she cuts him off to get to the "fail" answer she wants.wants.
** Exactly how much Hannah is an Unreliable Narrator is up to the individual reader to decide. But just because she'd already made six tapes does not mean she wasn't looking for a last chance when she went to see Mr. Porter. Had Mr. Porter convinced her to change her mind, she could have easily destroyed the tapes, hidden them, maybe even sent the ones about Bryce to the police. The fact that she made the previous tapes in no way, shape or form determines that she was going to kill herself regardless of what Mr. Porter said. She was definitely on the verge of making her decision but that doesn't mean she didn't completely make up her mind at the point she said she did (ie after seeing Mr. Porter). Whether you believe Hannah had already made her decision or not, there's no denying that, as a counselor (and therefore there to prevent this kind of thing), Mr. Porter failed spectacularly - and yes, this troper believes he should have seen through the hints despite Hannah never outright saying she was considering suicide because by that stage, Hannah seemed to be showing all the classic signs of feeling suicidal.
** Exactly how much Hannah is an Unreliable Narrator is up to the individual reader to decide. But just because she'd already made six tapes does not mean she wasn't looking for a last chance when she went to see Mr. Porter. Had Mr. Porter convinced her to change her mind, she could have easily destroyed the tapes, hidden them, maybe even sent the ones about Bryce to the police. The fact that she made the previous tapes in no way, shape or form determines that she was going to kill herself regardless of what Mr. Porter said. She was definitely on the verge of making her decision but that doesn't mean she didn't completely make up her mind at the point she said she did (ie after seeing Mr. Porter). Whether you believe Hannah had already made her decision or not, there's no denying that, as a counselor (and therefore there to prevent this kind of thing), Mr. Porter failed spectacularly - and yes, this troper believes he should have seen through the hints despite Hannah never outright saying she was considering suicide because by that stage, Hannah seemed to be showing all the classic signs of feeling suicidal.
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Minor edit.
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
Hannah seems to be fishing for Mr. Porter to give her a response she doesn't like so that she'll have an excuse to walk out on him (she even recorded the first six tapes before bothering to go see him the first place, making it very clear that [[UnreliableNarrator despite her claims to the contrary, she doesn't actually want him to "succeed" in talking her down]]), while he's struggling to get enough details from her to even be able to respond in any meaningful way. But Porter is right when he responds to Hannah's question about what she can do about the party situation (even though she has misled him on what the situation ''is''): She can do ''something'' or she can do ''nothing''. He even offers her assistance in doing ''something'' before she cuts him off to get to the "fail" answer she wants.
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* Hannah seems to be fishing for Mr. Porter to give her a response she doesn't like so that she'll have an excuse to walk out on him (she even recorded the first six tapes before bothering to go see him the first place, making it very clear that [[UnreliableNarrator despite her claims to the contrary, she doesn't actually want him to "succeed" in talking her down]]), while he's struggling to get enough details from her to even be able to respond in any meaningful way. But Porter is right when he responds to Hannah's question about what she can do about the party situation (even though she has misled him on what the situation ''is''): She can do ''something'' or she can do ''nothing''. He even offers her assistance in doing ''something'' before she cuts him off to get to the "fail" answer she wants.
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More like 11 reasons, 1 regret, & 1 frame up.
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Hannah seems to be fishing for Mr. Porter to give her a response she doesn't like so that she'll have an excuse to walk out on him (she even recorded the first six tapes before bothering to go see him the first place, making it very clear that [[UnreliableNarrator despite her claims to the contrary, she doesn't actually want him to "succeed" in talking her down]]), while he's struggling to get enough details from her to even be able to respond in any meaningful way. But Porter is right when he responds to Hannah's question about what she can do about the party situation (even though she has misled him on what the situation ''is''): She can do ''something'' or she can do ''nothing''. He even offers her assistance in doing ''something'' before she cuts him off to get to the "fail" answer she wants.
