Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / TheTudors

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Anne Boleyn had neither of those things.


** In real life, many of the attractive characters weren't considered attractive at the time. Anne Boleyn herself had a mole and a sixth finger. But, for the plot they changed it.

to:

** In real life, many of the attractive characters weren't considered attractive at the time. Anne Boleyn herself had a mole and a sixth finger. But, for the plot they changed it.

Added: 952

Changed: 1016

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Because in real life marriages weren't made for love, more so for alliances and furthering the dynasty. In real life, yes, Charles had a pretty happy marriage, but sometimes with historical fiction, you need to change it up to make the story more compelling. In real life, Henry's son, Henry Fitzroy, died when he was a teenager from tuberculosis, but to make the story more dramatic and powerful, he dies as a child from sweating sickness, because from a storytelling perspective it's more powerful. And the children doesn't really mean that they loved each other, because even though you didn't like your spouse, you still needed to further your dynasty. For instance, Fernandid, King of Naples and Sicily wasn't in love with his wife, Maria Carolina of Austria, but that didn't stop them from having almost twenty children. Truth is, so much history has been lost or our sources are heavily biased, that a lot of facts, we don't know for certain.



** It does kind of make sense to cast people who are good looking by modern standards as characters who were considered attractive during their time period, in order to make it feel more [[RealityIsUnrealistic real]] for the audience. Cast someone who was considered good looking by 16th century standards, and people will just see it as InformedAttractiveness. Historical pieces often modernize other elements for [[RealityIsUnrealistic similar reasons]]. As far as having everyone be good looking... well, that's an issue with basically every show on TV, as well as every movie, comic book, video game, etc., with very few exceptions.

to:

** It does kind of make sense to cast people who are good looking by modern standards as characters who were considered attractive during their time period, in order to make it feel more [[RealityIsUnrealistic real]] for the audience. Cast someone who was considered good looking by 16th century standards, and people will just see it as InformedAttractiveness. Historical pieces often modernize other elements for [[RealityIsUnrealistic similar reasons]]. As far as having everyone be good looking... well, that's an issue with basically every show on TV, as well as every movie, comic book, video game, etc., with very few exceptions. And many of the noble characters are the result of inbreeding, which would make them look far more ugly than how the media portray them.




to:

** In real life, many of the attractive characters weren't considered attractive at the time. Anne Boleyn herself had a mole and a sixth finger. But, for the plot they changed it.




to:

** Also, Shakespeare isn't a reliable source, since many of his plays that are based upon works, such as Macbeth and Richard III are based upon propaganda at the time.



** There weren't very many first names in use in England at the time. Even as late as the 18th century, a quarter of all English men were named John.

to:

** There weren't very many first names in use in England at the time. Even as late as the 18th century, a quarter of all English men were named John. Usually, names would be reused as a way to honor relatives, saints, or ancestors. Even in real life, all of Henry's children were named to honor people: Mary was named after his sister, Mary Queen of France, who's story Margaret filled and with whom he had a close relationship; Elizabeth was named after his mother who died when he was a child and Anne Boleyn's mother; and Edward was named after Henry's grandfather and uncle and allegedly Edward the Confessor. Henry himself was named after his father, his predecessor Henry VII.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Yes. Because the rewriting of the history would be only notices by those vewers, who know history, while the recast would be obvious to everyone who watches the show.

to:

*** Yes. Because the rewriting of the history would be only notices noticed by those vewers, who know history, while the recast would be obvious to everyone who watches the show.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

*** Yes. Because the rewriting of the history would be only notices by those vewers, who know history, while the recast would be obvious to everyone who watches the show.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

***Plus, King Henry VIII was quite handsome in his younger years. It was only after a severe leg injury that prevented him from playing sports that he turned into the morbidly obese man who's portraits people are familiar with.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It especially strange as the show had no problem recasting Jane Seymour.

to:

** It It's especially strange as the show had no problem recasting Jane Seymour.



*** More jarring than rewriting history and promoting other minor existing, or inventing completely new, characters to play 'Biff the Understudy' to Norfolk and Cranmer?

to:

*** More jarring than rewriting history and promoting other minor existing, or inventing completely new, new characters to play 'Biff the Understudy' to Norfolk and Cranmer?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** More jarring than rewriting history and either promoting existing, or inventing completely new, characters to play 'Biff the Understudy' to Norfolk and Cranmer?

to:

*** More jarring than rewriting history and either promoting other minor existing, or inventing completely new, characters to play 'Biff the Understudy' to Norfolk and Cranmer?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** They couldn't really write her character out of the show, from a historical perspective...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

*** More jarring than rewriting history and either promoting existing, or inventing completely new, characters to play 'Biff the Understudy' to Norfolk and Cranmer?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
This is not \"It Just Bugs Me\", this is \"Headscratchers\".


* It bugs me that the show indulges in the "Sex equals ratings, so let's show as much sex as possible!" pandering often. Another point of contention I have with the show is the way they handled secondary characters. Aside from Wolsey, More, and Cromwell (who the audience actually gets to know), I couldn't care less about the advisor(s) of the seasons. Often times, they just disappeared into the ether without warning.

to:

* It bugs me that the show indulges in the "Sex equals ratings, so let's show as much sex as possible!" pandering often. Another point of contention I have with the show is the way they handled secondary characters. Aside from Wolsey, More, and Cromwell (who the audience actually gets to know), I couldn't care less about the advisor(s) of the seasons. Often times, they just disappeared into the ether without warning.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** Mainly due to Thomas Becket being the patron saint of London.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* It bugs me that the show indulges in the "Sex equals ratings, so let's show as much sex as possible!" pandering often. Another point of contention I have with the show is the way they handled secondary characters. Aside from Wolsey, More, and Cromwell (who the audience actually gets to know), I couldn't care less about the advisor(s) of the seasons. Often times, they just disappeared into the ether without warning.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

----


Added DiffLines:

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It especially strange as the show had no problem recasting Jane Seymour.

to:

** It especially strange as the show had no problem recasting Jane Seymour.Seymour.
** If I recall correctly, Jane Seymour was only in one or two scenes at the very end of one season before being cast for the next. I didn't even notice this the first time I watched it. On the other hand, recasting characters with as much prior screen time as Norfolk and Cranmer would have been very jarring in this kind of polished costume drama.
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The same goes for Archbishop Cranmer (Hans Matheson), as he played an important role in the events of seasons 3 & 4.

to:

** The same goes for Archbishop Cranmer (Hans Matheson), as he played an important role in the events of seasons 3 & 4.4.
** It especially strange as the show had no problem recasting Jane Seymour.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** Also, traditionally (as in prior to Henry VIII), "Your Grace" had been reserved for royalty, not nobility. Henry VIII requested (and his requests were always honored) that he, as King, be addressed as "Your Majesty" exclusively. The Prince of Wales and son of the King would still be styled "Your Grace" in that era. It's a small point, but a cogent one.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** Edward VI became Duke of Cornwall at his christening, as mentioned in the show. This explains him being "your Grace." Presumably his address changed to "Highness" only after he became Prince of Wales, but this wasn't shown on-screen. (This actually mimics the real life procedure for the English heir apparent, who receives the Dukedom automatically but has to be created Prince of Wales by the monarch.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* More curiosity regarding behind-the-scenes rather than the show itself: if Henry Czerny/Duke of Norfolk was such an important character, why didn't they just [[TheOtherDarrin recast the role]]?

to:

* More curiosity regarding behind-the-scenes rather than the show itself: if Henry Czerny/Duke of Norfolk was such an important character, why didn't they just [[TheOtherDarrin recast the role]]?role]]?
** The same goes for Archbishop Cranmer (Hans Matheson), as he played an important role in the events of seasons 3 & 4.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There weren't very many first names in use in England at the time. Even as late as the 18th century, a quarter of all English men were named John.

to:

** There weren't very many first names in use in England at the time. Even as late as the 18th century, a quarter of all English men were named John.John.

* More curiosity regarding behind-the-scenes rather than the show itself: if Henry Czerny/Duke of Norfolk was such an important character, why didn't they just [[TheOtherDarrin recast the role]]?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* This isn't the fault of the producers, but why is everybody named ''Thomas?'' Thomas Cromwell, Thomas Tallis, Thomas Boelyn, Thomas More, Thomas Wolsey, Thomas Wyatt, etc. I'm sure I've forgotten more than half of them. I know they can't change peoples names; I just find it odd that so ''MANY'' people were named Thomas.

to:

* This isn't the fault of the producers, but why is everybody named ''Thomas?'' Thomas Cromwell, Thomas Tallis, Thomas Boelyn, Thomas More, Thomas Wolsey, Thomas Wyatt, etc. I'm sure I've forgotten more than half of them. I know they can't change peoples names; I just find it odd that so ''MANY'' people were named Thomas.Thomas.
** There weren't very many first names in use in England at the time. Even as late as the 18th century, a quarter of all English men were named John.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why do they switch between calling Prince Edward "Your Highness" and "Your Grace"? I mean, historically--at least going by Shakespeare--"Majesty" and "Grace" and "Highness" were all used for the sovereign, and everyone else was just "my lord," but it seemed like they were following basically modern styles, with the King being "Majesty" and the princesses being "Highness" and the dukes "Grace." I can understand why--it's probably less confusing for modern audiences--but why did they make Edward "Grace"? And then change their minds and make him "Highness"?

to:

* Why do they switch between calling Prince Edward "Your Highness" and "Your Grace"? I mean, historically--at least going by Shakespeare--"Majesty" and "Grace" and "Highness" were all used for the sovereign, and everyone else was just "my lord," but it seemed like they were following basically modern styles, with the King being "Majesty" and the princesses being "Highness" and the dukes "Grace." I can understand why--it's probably less confusing for modern audiences--but why did they make Edward "Grace"? And then change their minds and make him "Highness"?"Highness"?

* This isn't the fault of the producers, but why is everybody named ''Thomas?'' Thomas Cromwell, Thomas Tallis, Thomas Boelyn, Thomas More, Thomas Wolsey, Thomas Wyatt, etc. I'm sure I've forgotten more than half of them. I know they can't change peoples names; I just find it odd that so ''MANY'' people were named Thomas.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It does kind of make sense to cast people who are good looking by modern standards as characters who were considered attractive during their time period, in order to make it feel more [[RealityIsUnrealistic real]] for the audience. Cast someone who was considered good looking by 16th century standards, and people will just see it as InformedAttractiveness. Historical pieces often modernize other elements for [[RealityIsUnrealistic similar reasons]]. As far as having everyone be good looking... well, that's an issue with basically every show on TV, as well as every movie, comic book, video game, etc., with very few exceptions.

to:

** It does kind of make sense to cast people who are good looking by modern standards as characters who were considered attractive during their time period, in order to make it feel more [[RealityIsUnrealistic real]] for the audience. Cast someone who was considered good looking by 16th century standards, and people will just see it as InformedAttractiveness. Historical pieces often modernize other elements for [[RealityIsUnrealistic similar reasons]]. As far as having everyone be good looking... well, that's an issue with basically every show on TV, as well as every movie, comic book, video game, etc., with very few exceptions.exceptions.

* Why do they switch between calling Prince Edward "Your Highness" and "Your Grace"? I mean, historically--at least going by Shakespeare--"Majesty" and "Grace" and "Highness" were all used for the sovereign, and everyone else was just "my lord," but it seemed like they were following basically modern styles, with the King being "Majesty" and the princesses being "Highness" and the dukes "Grace." I can understand why--it's probably less confusing for modern audiences--but why did they make Edward "Grace"? And then change their minds and make him "Highness"?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The people in charge believe the only way to get good ratings is to appeal to society's current aesthetic tastes. That and throw in a lot of sex and gore. Whether that belief is correct or not depends on how high or low your opinion of society is.

to:

** The people in charge believe the only way to get good ratings is to appeal to society's current aesthetic tastes. That and throw in a lot of sex and gore. Whether that belief is correct or not depends on how high or low your opinion of society is.is.
** It does kind of make sense to cast people who are good looking by modern standards as characters who were considered attractive during their time period, in order to make it feel more [[RealityIsUnrealistic real]] for the audience. Cast someone who was considered good looking by 16th century standards, and people will just see it as InformedAttractiveness. Historical pieces often modernize other elements for [[RealityIsUnrealistic similar reasons]]. As far as having everyone be good looking... well, that's an issue with basically every show on TV, as well as every movie, comic book, video game, etc., with very few exceptions.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why do they cast people who are only attractive by today's standard? The king looks like a glamourpuss, he's wearing so much make-up and the women are skinny models.

to:

* Why do they cast people who are only attractive by today's standard? The king looks like a glamourpuss, he's wearing so much make-up and the women are skinny models.models.
** The people in charge believe the only way to get good ratings is to appeal to society's current aesthetic tastes. That and throw in a lot of sex and gore. Whether that belief is correct or not depends on how high or low your opinion of society is.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why are there no functional marriages? All right, with Henry and his wives, there won't be, but his love life's not the only one we see on the show. Charles Brandon and his historical Tudor wife, Mary, seem to have been happy together. Margaret and Brandon, on the other hand, have a relationship that is initially fueled on what appears to be hate sex, and then Brandon starts his old playboy ways again. Speaking of Brandon, his second wife was never estranged from him, unlike in the show. But that. at least, had a plot reason to it, showing what loyalty to Henry costs Brandon. Then there's Edward and Anne Seymour... OK, where did they get the idea that Anne Stanhope was a slut? It was Edward's first wife, Catherine Filiol, who had an affair (with his father, which is probably where the Anne/Thomas Seymour in season 4 comes from). Even worse, there seems to be no plot reason for any of it, especially the Anne/Thomas, which was completely random. The bit with Surrey is the only part that's even mildly accurate, since Surrey does seem to have had a thing for Anne for a while. But Edward and Anne - like Brandon and Mary - were a happy pair in history (they had ten kids, so clearly...) but in the show they hate each other. The only healthy relationships seem to be the brief glimpses into Cardinal Wolsey's relationship with his mistress, Joan, or Brandon and his mistress, Brigitte.

to:

* Why are there no functional marriages? All right, with Henry and his wives, there won't be, but his love life's not the only one we see on the show. Charles Brandon and his historical Tudor wife, Mary, seem to have been happy together. Margaret and Brandon, on the other hand, have a relationship that is initially fueled on what appears to be hate sex, and then Brandon starts his old playboy ways again. Speaking of Brandon, his second wife was never estranged from him, unlike in the show. But that. at least, had a plot reason to it, showing what loyalty to Henry costs Brandon. Then there's Edward and Anne Seymour... OK, where did they get the idea that Anne Stanhope was a slut? It was Edward's first wife, Catherine Filiol, who had an affair (with his father, which is probably where the Anne/Thomas Seymour in season 4 comes from). Even worse, there seems to be no plot reason for any of it, especially the Anne/Thomas, which was completely random. The bit with Surrey is the only part that's even mildly accurate, since Surrey does seem to have had a thing for Anne for a while. But Edward and Anne - like Brandon and Mary - were a happy pair in history (they had ten kids, so clearly...) but in the show they hate each other. The only healthy relationships seem to be the brief glimpses into Cardinal Wolsey's relationship with his mistress, Joan, or Brandon and his mistress, Brigitte.Brigitte.
* Why do they cast people who are only attractive by today's standard? The king looks like a glamourpuss, he's wearing so much make-up and the women are skinny models.

Top