History Headscratchers / SE7EN

** Mills executed an unarmed, non-resisting, and handcuffed suspect in full view of police witnesses. Then he continued shooting his corpse. Given that this is the sort of case that would draw worldwide attention and scrutiny, and that Doe already had a lawyer who was required to zealously fight for his client, there isn't really a way to cover this up. Given the loss of his wife and unborn child would have put him into a rather unhinged state, he would never be convicted of murder. Voluntary manslaughter would be the appropriate charge. He would likely get some time, though not much considering the circumstances.

* There seems to be an implication that Mills will go to prison for his murder. Is that really a founded worry? It feels like any half-decent lawyer would be able to get the charges dropped. After all he killed someone who just admitted to his face that he raped and killed his wife and child, and who had also killed several other people. Who would be trying to get Mills imprisoned for that?

** As for the booking and interrogating, it's likely that Doe deliberately used his claims of "two more victims" to speed along the process. As far as the cops knew, there were two more people still alive, but in a state of horrific torture and pain, at that very moment. They probably agreed to give Doe whatever he wanted, or even skipped the interrogation altogether, in exchange for him revealing the victims' whereabouts. Doe also probably called his lawyer ahead of time and arranged things so that he'd be waiting by the precinct when Doe handed himself in; the guy may be a serial killer, but he's CrazyPrepared and plans for everything.

** Not necessarily. Cell phones weren't yet ''that'' ubiquitous in the mid-Nineties, so [[spoiler: Tracy]] might not regularly carry or even own one. [[spoiler: Mills]] could easily ring his home's landline number, get no answer, and assume she's out walking the dogs or whatever.

* There's something that bugs me about the time frame. So John Doe goes to [[spoiler:Mills' house, rapes his wife, kills her, cuts her head off, arranges for the head to be delivered at a specific time and location, and then goes to the police.]] He has time to do all that before he arrives at the police station early in the morning schedule, and he's lucky enough to be processed and have his lawyer called, who arrives just immediately... really? Doesn't booking a suspect, interrogating him and letting him talk to his lawyer normally take several hours? And in all that time, [[spoiler:Mills]] at no point calls his home just to say "hello" to his wife or "Hey, honey, guess what? We caught him! I'm so happy!". Just one phone call from [[spoiler:Mills]] to see how's the dog doing, or what's for dinner and Doe's plan would've failed.
** Not necessarily. Cell phones weren't yet ''that'' ubiquitous in the mid-Nineties, so [[spoiler: Tracy]] might not regularly carry or even own one. [[spoiler: Mills]] could easily ring his home's landline number, get no answer, and assume she's out walking the dog or whatever.

* There's something that bugs me about the time frame. So John Doe goes into [[spoiler:Mills' house, rapes his wife, kills her, cut her head off, arrange for the head to be delivered on a specific time and location and then goes to the police.]] So he has time to do all that before he arrives at the police station early in the morning schedule, and he was lucky enough to be process and to have his lawyer called and arrived just immediately... really? doesn't booking a suspect, interrogating him and letting him talk to his lawyer normally takes several hours? and in all that time [[spoiler:Mills]] at no point even call his home to say hello to his wife or to say "Hey, honey, guess what, we catch him! I'm so happy!" Just one phone call from [[spoiler:Mills]] to see how's the dog or what's for dinner a Doe's plan would've failed.

** He didn't kill Pride victim either (she kills herself), have her choose to call for help would have survive, but desfigurated for life. Similarly depending on your interpretation the prostitute wasn't the guilty of Lust, thus her death was more of a way to punish the client who was the sinner, similarly on how [[spoiler:Mills]] do not die but his life is ruinned. So technically for John Doe the death of the sinner is not always the goal, but to mess-up his life and mind forever.

* Throughout the film it becomes clear that the pattern is Sin. The detectives understandably take the simpler view that these are a pattern of murders based on the Sins, where really the pattern is the Sins themselves. This is exacerbated by Gluttony being the murder of a man via force-feeding and Greed that of a biblical 'pound of flesh' punishment (there was actually a small chance the Greed victim could have survived). These first two make it look like Doe's motivation is solely based on murder. The Sloth victim is the first misstep in the perceived pattern as he is not dead - the motivation was demonstrating the sin. The Lust victim is not actually guilty of Lust (though Doe still feels contempt for her being a 'disease-spreading whore'), the client is. Again the motivation is the demonstration of the sin rather than truly punishing the sinner. Doe does admit that he enjoyed 'turning each sin against the sinner', but as mentioned already, you don't have to kill the sinner to turn their sin against them. The Pride victim is another demonstration, where Doe is attempting to show society that some people are so full of Pride (in this case the sin is the very modern syndrome of obsession with one's physical appearance) that if they are deprived of the focus of their Pride they would rather end their own life. In the Pride case, Doe specifically disfigures but very carefully bandages the victim, ensuring she would not die unless by her own hand. The last two are very subtle demonstrations and fit in with Doe's belief that his 'work' will be pored over and studied endlessly. Doe believes himself to be guilty of Envy (specifically of Mills' life and his wife) and so turns this sin against himself by killing Tracy and thus destroying the object of his envy, with the greater purpose of tipping Mills over the edge into giving in to his Wrath. When Mills kills Doe, his sin of Wrath (which Doe had already noted was a trait of his when he commented that Mills would likely assault or even kill him if left alone with him in a windowless room without fear of consequences) is turned against him, completing the list of Sins.

*** The question being, if he secretly wanted to be wrath (which would make sense considering his actions), then envy is still missing since he had only one sin per person up til this point. One could argue, on the other hand, if Doe is the Wrath victim, that Tracy is therefore the Envy victim.

* There's something that bugs me about the timeframe. So John Doe goes into [[spoiler:Mills' house, rapes his wife, kills her, cut her head off, arrange for the head to be delivered on a specific time and location and then goes to the police.]] So he has time to do all that before he arrives at the police station early in the morning schedule, and he was lucky enough to be process and to have his lawyer called and arrived just immediately... really? doesn't booking a suspect, interrogating him and letting him talk to his lawyer normally takes several hours? and in all that time [[spoiler:Mills]] at no point even call his home to say hello to his wife or to say "Hey, honey, guess what, we catch him! I'm so happy!" Just one phone call from [[spoiler:Mills]] to see how's the dog or what's for dinner a Doe's plan would've failed.

*** The maximum sentence for voluntary manslaughter is generally 10 years. Considering that he was elaborately manipulated into killing, that the victim is a [[spoiler:serial killer]] without any surviving friends or family to testify, and that judges and juries are generally sympathetic to [[spoiler:police officers]], he would get at most three years in prison.

* At the end of the movie, we learn that [[spoiler: John Doe has killed Mills' wife and unborn daughter,]] and goads [[spoiler: Mills]] into killing him, thereby becoming Wrath. Two problems:

*** None of his other victims (except Wrath and maybe gluttony, who could have his tongue cut out) probably values their sins more than their life. Again, diagnosed narcissism or getting a lot of plastic surgery seems proof of pride enough to me.

** He didn't kill Pride victim either (she kills herself), have her choose to call for help would have survive, but desfigurated for life. Similarly depending on your interpretation the prostitute wasn't the guilty of Lust, thus her death was more of a way to punish the client who was the sinner, similarly on how [[spoiler:Mills]] do not die but his life is ruin. So technically for John Doe the death of the sinner is not always the goal, but to mess-up his life and mind forever.

*** The movie doesn't establish the victim's age, just says is a minor, she could be 17 years and 11 months old for that matter, probably the reason why the script takes the effort in calling him a pederast (someone into teens) instead of a pedophile (someone into prepubescent children), considering that he was a drug dealer, most likely the victim was a teenage girl client whether he tried to forced sexually or to sell drugs in exchange for sex (which albeit consensual is still statutory rape), if the girl is around 15, 16 or 17 is still a minor but he would hardly be considered a pedophile even for someone like John Doe, thus his main crime is still sloth.

*** The movie doesn't establish the victim's age, just says is a minor, she could be 17 years and 11 months old for that matter, probably the reason why the script takes the effort in calling him a pederast (someone into teens) instead of a pedophile (someone into prepubescente children), considering that he was a drug dealer, most likely the victim was a teenage girl client whether he tried to forced sexually or to sell drugs in exchange for sex (which albeit consensual is still statutory rape), if the girl is around 15, 16 or 17 is still a minor but he would hardly be considered a pedophile even for someone like John Doe, thus his main crime is still sloth.

** That's exactly it-he couldn't justify killing any pretty person, so he had to prove that she was vain, not just beautiful. He wanted to make her admit that she valued her looks more than her life, therefore demonstrating and punishing the sin in one go.

* [[spoiler:Why did only the Pride victim get a choice in regards to her sin? Live, but be disfigured. I get that beauty is something one's born with, so Doe couldn't justify killing just any pretty person to himself, but why not just kill anyone who got a lot of plastic surgery, or was diagnosed with narcissism?]]