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Changed line(s) 46 (click to see context) from:
* After saving Cheryl for her attempt to commit suicide, the group later decides to ''leave her all alone,'' and go to the Jubile. Worse, Veronica and Archie know at least a little about how awful Cheryl's mother is to her. What the hell? [[note]] [[AndreTheBlackNerd Riverdaaaale]] [[/note]]
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* After saving Cheryl for her attempt to commit suicide, the group later decides to ''leave her all alone,'' and go to the Jubile.Jubilee. Worse, Veronica and Archie know at least a little about how awful Cheryl's mother is to her. What the hell? [[note]] [[AndreTheBlackNerd Riverdaaaale]] [[/note]]
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Changed line(s) 145 (click to see context) from:
* What the heck was Veronica trying to do by kissing Betty in the first episode? Nobody knew at that point that Cheryl liked girls- including Cheryl herself- so what exactly was her reasoning there?
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* What the heck was Veronica trying to do by kissing Betty in the first episode? Nobody knew at that point that Cheryl liked girls- including Cheryl herself- so what exactly was her reasoning there?there?
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Changed line(s) 141 (click to see context) from:
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[[folder: Fanservice kiss?]]
* What the heck was Veronica trying to do by kissing Betty in the first episode? Nobody knew at that point that Cheryl liked girls- including Cheryl herself- so what exactly was her reasoning there?
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Deleted line(s) 87 (click to see context) :
** Exactly. And everyone conveniently overlooks that Cheryl stalked and gaslit Josie, framed Chuck for it, and was abusive to Toni in their relationship, who also basically ends up existing to be emotional support for Cheryl. The show doesn’t care what befalls the three black characters as long as white Cheryl gets and can do whatever she wants?
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Changed line(s) 87 (click to see context) from:
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** Exactly. And everyone conveniently overlooks that Cheryl stalked and gaslit Josie, framed Chuck for it, and was abusive to Toni in their relationship, who also basically ends up existing to be emotional support for Cheryl. The show doesn’t care what befalls the three black characters as long as white Cheryl gets and can do whatever she wants?
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Changed line(s) 141 (click to see context) from:
* In the early seasons, when FP is holding a speech for the Serpents, after the police tried to force him to leave the Serpents, FP tells the story of how his father threw him out of the house when he was 16, and he joined the Serpents who became his new family.In the episode 'The Midnight Club', where we see the parents when they were in High School, we see that FP's dad was a Serpent and wanted him to join them, but FP wanted to play football and tried to be something he wasn't, which Alice calls him out on in front of everyone. The episode ends with FP joining the serpents and his dad handing him a beer, as if he's finally accepting him. But, in a later episode, there's a whole storyline of Jughead trying to find his grandfather, where FP tells him that his father was a drunk who abandoned FP and his mother when he was a kid. Which is it?
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* In one of the early seasons, when FP is holding a speech for the Serpents, after the police tried to force him to leave the Serpents, FP tells the story of how his father threw him out of the house when he was 16, and he joined the Serpents who became his new family.family. In the episode 'The Midnight Club', where we see the parents when they were in High School, we see that FP's dad was a Serpent and wanted him to join them, but FP wanted to play football and tried to be something he wasn't, which Alice calls him out on in front of everyone. The episode ends with FP joining the serpents and his dad handing him a beer, as if he's finally accepting him. But, in a later episode, there's a whole storyline of Jughead trying to find his grandfather, where FP tells him that his father was a drunk who abandoned FP and his mother when he was a kid. Which is it?
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Changed line(s) 141,144 (click to see context) from:
* In the early seasons, when FP is holding a speech for the Serpents, after the police tried to force him to leave the Serpents, FP tells the story of how his father threw him out of the house when he was 16, and he joined the Serpents who became his new family.
In the episode 'The Midnight Club', where we see the parents when they were in High School, we see that FP's dad was a Serpent and wanted him to join them, but FP wanted to play football and tried to be something he wasn't, which Alice calls him out on in front of everyone. The episode ends with FP joining the serpents and his dad handing him a beer, as if he's finally accepting him.
But, in a later episode, there's a whole storyline of Jughead trying to find his grandfather, where FP tells him that his father was a drunk who abandoned FP and his mother when he was a kid.
Which is it?
In the episode 'The Midnight Club', where we see the parents when they were in High School, we see that FP's dad was a Serpent and wanted him to join them, but FP wanted to play football and tried to be something he wasn't, which Alice calls him out on in front of everyone. The episode ends with FP joining the serpents and his dad handing him a beer, as if he's finally accepting him.
But, in a later episode, there's a whole storyline of Jughead trying to find his grandfather, where FP tells him that his father was a drunk who abandoned FP and his mother when he was a kid.
Which is it?
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* In the early seasons, when FP is holding a speech for the Serpents, after the police tried to force him to leave the Serpents, FP tells the story of how his father threw him out of the house when he was 16, and he joined the Serpents who became his new family.
family.In the episode 'The Midnight Club', where we see the parents when they were in High School, we see that FP's dad was a Serpent and wanted him to join them, but FP wanted to play football and tried to be something he wasn't, which Alice calls him out on in front of everyone. The episode ends with FP joining the serpents and his dad handing him a beer, as if he's finally accepting him.
him. But, in a later episode, there's a whole storyline of Jughead trying to find his grandfather, where FP tells him that his father was a drunk who abandoned FP and his mother when he was a kid.
kid. Which is it?
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[[folder: FP's backstory]]
* In the early seasons, when FP is holding a speech for the Serpents, after the police tried to force him to leave the Serpents, FP tells the story of how his father threw him out of the house when he was 16, and he joined the Serpents who became his new family.
In the episode 'The Midnight Club', where we see the parents when they were in High School, we see that FP's dad was a Serpent and wanted him to join them, but FP wanted to play football and tried to be something he wasn't, which Alice calls him out on in front of everyone. The episode ends with FP joining the serpents and his dad handing him a beer, as if he's finally accepting him.
But, in a later episode, there's a whole storyline of Jughead trying to find his grandfather, where FP tells him that his father was a drunk who abandoned FP and his mother when he was a kid.
Which is it?
[[folder: FP's backstory]]
* In the early seasons, when FP is holding a speech for the Serpents, after the police tried to force him to leave the Serpents, FP tells the story of how his father threw him out of the house when he was 16, and he joined the Serpents who became his new family.
In the episode 'The Midnight Club', where we see the parents when they were in High School, we see that FP's dad was a Serpent and wanted him to join them, but FP wanted to play football and tried to be something he wasn't, which Alice calls him out on in front of everyone. The episode ends with FP joining the serpents and his dad handing him a beer, as if he's finally accepting him.
But, in a later episode, there's a whole storyline of Jughead trying to find his grandfather, where FP tells him that his father was a drunk who abandoned FP and his mother when he was a kid.
Which is it?
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[[folder: Beatrice Cooper]]
* If the Coopers were founded as a cadet branch of the Blossoms around the time Riverdale was founded, how could there be a Beatrice Cooper involved with burning Abigail Blossom at the stake?
[[folder: Beatrice Cooper]]
* If the Coopers were founded as a cadet branch of the Blossoms around the time Riverdale was founded, how could there be a Beatrice Cooper involved with burning Abigail Blossom at the stake?
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Changed line(s) 74 (click to see context) from:
*** Also, in reality FP wasn't being threatened with Jughead's life until the night of his wrongful arrest, when Clifford went to make sure he kept his mouth shut. So Cheryl isn't lying about there being a threat involved, but she ''is'' lying about when exactly that threat happened, and that might be the part which is news to the court.
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*** Also, in reality FP wasn't being threatened with Jughead's life until the night of his wrongful arrest, arrest when Clifford went to make sure he kept his mouth shut. So Cheryl isn't lying about there being a threat involved, but she ''is'' lying about when exactly that threat happened, and that might be the part which is news to the court.
Changed line(s) 78,79 (click to see context) from:
* WTF? Did the writers seriously forget that the serpents sell weed? Not only was this a plot point last season but FP verbally aknowledged this to both Jughead and Sheriff Keller. Yet this season Toni judges the ghoulies for selling drugs and Jughead starts spouting bullshit about not wanting his new "friends" to be drug dealers? Arguments surrounding the legalization of weed aside, they were/are illegally selling a potentially dangerous drug ergo they have always been drug dealers which means Toni and Jughead make no sense.
** This troper thinks it has more to do with "hard" vs. "soft" drugs. Weed is not very addictive, while drugs like meth, heroin or "Jingle-Jangle" have a. a much higher rate of addiction after first use, and b. much more destructive side effects. There is a reason stoners are thought of as very relaxed and chill, while our image of a heroin addict is that of a jittery, sweaty, nervous mess. Hard drugs famously destroy people's lives, something you barely, if ever, hear happening to people who smoke marijuana. So it could be that Toni and Jug object more to the moral component of selling drugs than the legal one, as in: Selling weed is illegal, but morally not really troubling, but selling Jingle-Jangle or meth or heroin is both illegal, which also means dangerous, as well as morally reprehensible.
** This troper thinks it has more to do with "hard" vs. "soft" drugs. Weed is not very addictive, while drugs like meth, heroin or "Jingle-Jangle" have a. a much higher rate of addiction after first use, and b. much more destructive side effects. There is a reason stoners are thought of as very relaxed and chill, while our image of a heroin addict is that of a jittery, sweaty, nervous mess. Hard drugs famously destroy people's lives, something you barely, if ever, hear happening to people who smoke marijuana. So it could be that Toni and Jug object more to the moral component of selling drugs than the legal one, as in: Selling weed is illegal, but morally not really troubling, but selling Jingle-Jangle or meth or heroin is both illegal, which also means dangerous, as well as morally reprehensible.
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* WTF? Did the writers seriously forget that the serpents sell weed? Not only was this a plot point last season but FP verbally aknowledged acknowledged this to both Jughead and Sheriff Keller. Yet this season Toni judges the ghoulies for selling drugs and Jughead starts spouting bullshit about not wanting his new "friends" to be drug dealers? Arguments surrounding the legalization of weed aside, they were/are illegally selling a potentially dangerous drug ergo they have always been drug dealers which means Toni and Jughead make no sense.
** This troper thinks it has more to do with "hard" vs. "soft" drugs. Weed is not very addictive, while drugs like meth,heroin heroin, or "Jingle-Jangle" have a. a much higher rate of addiction after first use, use and b. much more destructive side effects. There is a reason stoners are thought of as very relaxed and chill, while our image of a heroin addict is that of a jittery, sweaty, nervous mess. Hard drugs famously destroy people's lives, something you barely, if ever, hear happening to people who smoke marijuana. So it could be that Toni and Jug object more to the moral component of selling drugs than the legal one, as in: Selling weed is illegal, but morally not really troubling, but selling Jingle-Jangle or meth or heroin is both illegal, which also means dangerous, as well as morally reprehensible.
** This troper thinks it has more to do with "hard" vs. "soft" drugs. Weed is not very addictive, while drugs like meth,
Changed line(s) 85 (click to see context) from:
** Because people can ship whatever they want? Shipping isn’t some scholarly or moral examination- it’s supposed to be fun. As far as them being “forced” the same could be said- if not more validly- about FP and Alice or Jughead and Betty or many of the other ships in the show. And about Toni being with her despite the stalking- Jughead is with Betty after knowing she waterboarded and boiled a person, and blackmailed someone with her brother’s murder to force them into commiting perjury- amongst other examples between them and other pairings. Why is the ONE relationship between two women the only one held up to such scrutiny?
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** Because people can ship whatever they want? Shipping isn’t some scholarly or moral examination- it’s supposed to be fun. As far as them being “forced” the same could be said- if not more validly- about FP and Alice or Jughead and Betty or many any of the other ships in the show. And about Toni being with her despite the stalking- Jughead is with Betty after knowing she waterboarded and boiled a person, and blackmailed someone with her brother’s murder to force them into commiting committing perjury- amongst other examples between them and other pairings. Why is the ONE relationship between two women the only one held up to such scrutiny?
Changed line(s) 91 (click to see context) from:
* When Cheryl texted Veronica telling her about her imminent suicide, why did NO ONE think to call 911? I know they might not trust the cops at this point, but A: In this case they would send an ambulance instead of the police, and B: They don't have to tell the 911 operator anything about the circumstances of the situation. All they have to say is "My friend Cheryl Blossom texted me that she's going to kill herself. She's at Sweetwater River." That's it.
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* When Cheryl texted Veronica telling her about her imminent suicide, why did NO ONE think to call 911? I know they might not trust the cops at this point, but A: In this case case, they would send an ambulance instead of the police, and B: They don't have to tell the 911 operator anything about the circumstances of the situation. All they have to say is "My friend Cheryl Blossom texted me that she's going to kill herself. She's at Sweetwater River." That's it.
Changed line(s) 111,112 (click to see context) from:
** It's very likely Cheryl was deep in the closet before she met Toni, considering how emotionally abusive her parents are, and how badly her mom reacted when she found Cheryl in bed with a female friend some years prior. Her interest in Archie and Nick St. Clair may have just been attempts to try and talk herself into being straight.
*** In addition to the above- firstly, “they” never said she was bisexual. Madelaine, her actress, who has no actual control over the writing, said that “she thinks” Cheryl is bisexual. When asked on Twitter, an actual writer for the show stated that they still hadn’t decided on Cheryl’s sexuality whilst Madelaine was making those statements. Later, she said that she and RAS, the showrunner have talked and have realized that Cheryl is a lesbian. My own assumption is that RAS intended for Cheryl to be a lesbian from the beginning of her coming out story (the Josie-Stalking I mean) and clarified the situation with Madelaine later once the script was written or planned with Cheryl identifying herself as a lesbian. Second, your question is profoundly ignorant. Who are you to say what each individual lesbian can or cannot do? There are many lesbians in real life who got ''married'' and have even had kids with men before they realize or accepted the fact that they are lesbians (Wanda Sykes and Portia De Rossi, for example); Cheryl’s licking her lips at Archie once hardly disqualifies her from being a lesbian. Do you think Elton John or Little Richard or Peter Allen (amongst many others) are lying about being gay? They were married to women. For whatever it’s worth, her “flirting” with Archie and Nick (and kissing Moose) felt very performative and disingenuous to most fans - which is what lead to many fans theorizing that Cheryl was a lesbian or bisexual in the first place. The ''real'' headscratcher here is what’s with all the [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbophobia lesbophobia]] on the Riverdale Tv Tropes pages?
*** In addition to the above- firstly, “they” never said she was bisexual. Madelaine, her actress, who has no actual control over the writing, said that “she thinks” Cheryl is bisexual. When asked on Twitter, an actual writer for the show stated that they still hadn’t decided on Cheryl’s sexuality whilst Madelaine was making those statements. Later, she said that she and RAS, the showrunner have talked and have realized that Cheryl is a lesbian. My own assumption is that RAS intended for Cheryl to be a lesbian from the beginning of her coming out story (the Josie-Stalking I mean) and clarified the situation with Madelaine later once the script was written or planned with Cheryl identifying herself as a lesbian. Second, your question is profoundly ignorant. Who are you to say what each individual lesbian can or cannot do? There are many lesbians in real life who got ''married'' and have even had kids with men before they realize or accepted the fact that they are lesbians (Wanda Sykes and Portia De Rossi, for example); Cheryl’s licking her lips at Archie once hardly disqualifies her from being a lesbian. Do you think Elton John or Little Richard or Peter Allen (amongst many others) are lying about being gay? They were married to women. For whatever it’s worth, her “flirting” with Archie and Nick (and kissing Moose) felt very performative and disingenuous to most fans - which is what lead to many fans theorizing that Cheryl was a lesbian or bisexual in the first place. The ''real'' headscratcher here is what’s with all the [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbophobia lesbophobia]] on the Riverdale Tv Tropes pages?
to:
** It's very likely Cheryl was deep in the closet before she met Toni, considering how emotionally abusive her parents are, and how badly her mom reacted when she found Cheryl in bed with a female friend some years prior. Her interest in Archie and Nick St. Clair may have just been attempts attempted to try and talk herself into being straight.
*** In addition to the above- firstly, “they” never said she was bisexual. Madelaine, her actress, who has no actual control over the writing, said that “she thinks” Cheryl is bisexual. When asked on Twitter, an actual writer for the show stated that they still hadn’t decided on Cheryl’s sexuality whilst Madelaine was making those statements. Later, she said that she and RAS, the showrunner have talked and have realized that Cheryl is a lesbian. My own assumption is that RAS intended for Cheryl to be a lesbian from the beginning of her coming out story (the Josie-Stalking I mean) and clarified the situation with Madelaine later once the script was written or planned with Cheryl identifying herself as a lesbian. Second, your question is profoundly ignorant. Who are you to say what each individual lesbian can or cannot do? There are many lesbians in real life who got ''married'' and have even had kids with men before they realize oraccepted accept the fact that they are lesbians (Wanda Sykes and Portia De Rossi, for example); Cheryl’s licking her lips at Archie once hardly disqualifies her from being a lesbian. Do you think Elton John or Little Richard or Peter Allen (amongst many others) are lying about being gay? They were married to women. For whatever it’s worth, her “flirting” with Archie and Nick (and kissing Moose) felt very performative and disingenuous to most fans - which is what lead to many fans theorizing that Cheryl was a lesbian or bisexual in the first place. The ''real'' headscratcher here is what’s with all the [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbophobia lesbophobia]] on the Riverdale Tv Tropes pages?
*** In addition to the above- firstly, “they” never said she was bisexual. Madelaine, her actress, who has no actual control over the writing, said that “she thinks” Cheryl is bisexual. When asked on Twitter, an actual writer for the show stated that they still hadn’t decided on Cheryl’s sexuality whilst Madelaine was making those statements. Later, she said that she and RAS, the showrunner have talked and have realized that Cheryl is a lesbian. My own assumption is that RAS intended for Cheryl to be a lesbian from the beginning of her coming out story (the Josie-Stalking I mean) and clarified the situation with Madelaine later once the script was written or planned with Cheryl identifying herself as a lesbian. Second, your question is profoundly ignorant. Who are you to say what each individual lesbian can or cannot do? There are many lesbians in real life who got ''married'' and have even had kids with men before they realize or
Changed line(s) 116,117 (click to see context) from:
* So do we actually believe that Alice was secretly undercover the whole time in the Farm? Because I still 100% consider that an [[AssPull]] from the writers because they were afraid of loosing Alice's fandom. I understand that she couldn't have told Betty about being undercover but why couldn't she have just let her stay away from the Farm? Not to mention the things she did to Betty while being undercover. She gave her college money to a cult, sold Betty's childhood home, told Betty she was scared of her and told her she trusted the ''Farm'' more than her own daughter. Not to mention that Alice gladly let her daughters friends be indoctrinated into the cult and literally have their organs taken. Kevin lost an ''organ'' and I seriously doubt the Farmie doctors are professionals. So much could have gone wrong. Once again, I understand she couldn't just tell the people of Riverdale not to join the Farm but couldn't she have reported to the FBI? I guess this still just comes down to me thinking this was nothing more than one big AssPull from the writers so they don't have to redeem Alice emotionally abusing Betty throughout the whole season.
** I think this is sort of touched on in e08s04, when Betty and Alice both go to therapy with Mrs. Burble - Alice says that she gave Betty's college fund away while she was under Edgar's influence. So, she was genuinely participating in the Farm at some point, and became the mole later. Although that raises even more questions about how long Alice was brainwashed, and how Charles was able to convince her to become and informant if she was already indoctrinated. I feel like the writers came up with the "Alice was an FBI informant the whole time" story, but then had to backtrack and say she'd been brainwashed at the beginning, because there's really no good or sympathetic explanation for her giving away the college fund otherwise.
** I think this is sort of touched on in e08s04, when Betty and Alice both go to therapy with Mrs. Burble - Alice says that she gave Betty's college fund away while she was under Edgar's influence. So, she was genuinely participating in the Farm at some point, and became the mole later. Although that raises even more questions about how long Alice was brainwashed, and how Charles was able to convince her to become and informant if she was already indoctrinated. I feel like the writers came up with the "Alice was an FBI informant the whole time" story, but then had to backtrack and say she'd been brainwashed at the beginning, because there's really no good or sympathetic explanation for her giving away the college fund otherwise.
to:
* So do we actually believe that Alice was secretly undercover the whole time in the Farm? Because I still 100% consider that an [[AssPull]] AssPull from the writers because they were afraid of loosing losing Alice's fandom. I understand that she couldn't have told Betty about being undercover but why couldn't she have just let her stay away from the Farm? Not to mention the things she did to Betty while being undercover. She gave her college money to a cult, sold Betty's childhood home, told Betty she was scared of her her, and told her she trusted the ''Farm'' more than her own daughter. Not to mention that Alice gladly let her daughters daughter's friends be indoctrinated into the cult and literally have their organs taken. Kevin lost an ''organ'' and I seriously doubt the Farmie doctors are professionals. So much could have gone wrong. Once again, I understand she couldn't just tell the people of Riverdale not to join the Farm but couldn't she have reported to the FBI? I guess this still just comes down to me thinking this was nothing more than one big AssPull from the writers so they don't have to redeem Alice emotionally abusing Betty throughout the whole season.
** I think this is sort of touched on ine08s04, e08s04 when Betty and Alice both go to therapy with Mrs. Burble - Alice says that she gave Betty's college fund away while she was under Edgar's influence. So, she was genuinely participating in the Farm at some point, point and became the mole later. Although that raises even more questions about how long Alice was brainwashed, and how Charles was able to convince her to become and an informant if she was already indoctrinated. I feel like the writers came up with the "Alice was an FBI informant the whole time" story, but then had to backtrack and say she'd been brainwashed at the beginning, beginning because there's really no good or sympathetic explanation for her giving away the college fund otherwise.
** I think this is sort of touched on in
** The grieving mother still shot a ''child'' who was proven innocent. I don't care how much she was grieving, that is attempted murder.
** Apparently Lili Reinhart didn't want to film Vixen's scenes anymore so I guess she quit the squad off-screen. As for Veronica, I guess it's because she's befriended Toni and has this on and off friendship with Cheryl so she stayed for them. Or maybe she's just really into cheerleading.
Changed line(s) 130 (click to see context) from:
* It's frequently mentioned that Cheryl and Jason are twins, but Jason was in the same class as Poly, Betty's sister who is two years older than her. So did Jason skip two grades, or was Cheryl just held back a lot?
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* It's frequently mentioned that Cheryl and Jason are twins, but Jason was in the same class as Poly, Polly, Betty's sister who is two years older than her. So did Jason skip two grades, or was Cheryl just held back a lot?lot?
** It's possible that Jason skipped a couple of grades but it's also possible that Polly was possibly held back? Or maybe the writers just wanted to stick Cheryl with the main group so they forgot she's supposed to be older.
** It's possible that Jason skipped a couple of grades but it's also possible that Polly was possibly held back? Or maybe the writers just wanted to stick Cheryl with the main group so they forgot she's supposed to be older.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Cheryl and Jason's ages]]
* It's frequently mentioned that Cheryl and Jason are twins, but Jason was in the same class as Poly, Betty's sister who is two years older than her. So did Jason skip two grades, or was Cheryl just held back a lot?
[[folder: Cheryl and Jason's ages]]
* It's frequently mentioned that Cheryl and Jason are twins, but Jason was in the same class as Poly, Betty's sister who is two years older than her. So did Jason skip two grades, or was Cheryl just held back a lot?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Betty and the Vixens]]
* When exactly did Betty stop being a cheerleader? And on that note, why is Veronica still on the team? Both B and V are fairly busy (Betty's got the school newspaper, Veronica is running a business, and they're both constantly caught up in some kind of mystery) without playing a sport, and I thought the whole point of Veronica joining the team was to support Betty, who didn't think Cheryl would let her in by herself. What exactly does Veronica gain by staying on the team, especially since she and Cheryl only seem to get along about half of the time.
[[folder: Betty and the Vixens]]
* When exactly did Betty stop being a cheerleader? And on that note, why is Veronica still on the team? Both B and V are fairly busy (Betty's got the school newspaper, Veronica is running a business, and they're both constantly caught up in some kind of mystery) without playing a sport, and I thought the whole point of Veronica joining the team was to support Betty, who didn't think Cheryl would let her in by herself. What exactly does Veronica gain by staying on the team, especially since she and Cheryl only seem to get along about half of the time.
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** I think this is sort of touched on in e08s04, when Betty and Alice both go to therapy with Mrs. Burble - Alice says that she gave Betty's college fund away while she was under Edgar's influence. So, she was genuinely participating in the Farm at some point, and became the mole later. Although that raises even more questions about how long Alice was brainwashed, and how Charles was able to convince her to become and informant if she was already indoctrinated. I feel like the writers came up with the "Alice was an FBI informant the whole time" story, but then had to backtrack and say she'd been brainwashed at the beginning, because there's really no good or sympathetic explanation for her giving away the college fund otherwise.
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** Maybe the justice system in Riverdale took pity on a grieving mother, especially since the kid she shot was a Serpent from the wrong side of the tracks?
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Changed line(s) 116 (click to see context) from:
* So do we actually believe that Alice was secretly undercover the whole time in the Farm? Because I still 100% consider that an [[AssPull]] from the writers because they were afraid of loosing Alice's fandom. I understand that she couldn't have told Betty about being undercover but why couldn't she have just let her stay away from the Farm? Not to mention the things she did to Betty while being undercover. She gave her college money to a cult, sold Betty's childhood home, told Betty she was scared of her and told her she trusted the ''Farm'' more than her own daughter. Not to mention that Alice gladly let her daughters friends be indoctrinated into the cult and literally have their organs taken. Kevin lost an ''organ'' and I seriously doubt the Farmie doctors are professionals. So much could have gone wrong. Once again, I understand she couldn't just tell the people of Riverdale not to join the Farm but couldn't she have reported to the FBI? I guess this still just comes down to me thinking this was nothing more than one big [[AssPull]] from the writers so they don't have to redeem Alice emotionally abusing Betty throughout the whole season.
to:
* So do we actually believe that Alice was secretly undercover the whole time in the Farm? Because I still 100% consider that an [[AssPull]] from the writers because they were afraid of loosing Alice's fandom. I understand that she couldn't have told Betty about being undercover but why couldn't she have just let her stay away from the Farm? Not to mention the things she did to Betty while being undercover. She gave her college money to a cult, sold Betty's childhood home, told Betty she was scared of her and told her she trusted the ''Farm'' more than her own daughter. Not to mention that Alice gladly let her daughters friends be indoctrinated into the cult and literally have their organs taken. Kevin lost an ''organ'' and I seriously doubt the Farmie doctors are professionals. So much could have gone wrong. Once again, I understand she couldn't just tell the people of Riverdale not to join the Farm but couldn't she have reported to the FBI? I guess this still just comes down to me thinking this was nothing more than one big [[AssPull]] AssPull from the writers so they don't have to redeem Alice emotionally abusing Betty throughout the whole season.
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Changed line(s) 112,113 (click to see context) from:
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[[folder: Alice's season three journey]]
* So do we actually believe that Alice was secretly undercover the whole time in the Farm? Because I still 100% consider that an [[AssPull]] from the writers because they were afraid of loosing Alice's fandom. I understand that she couldn't have told Betty about being undercover but why couldn't she have just let her stay away from the Farm? Not to mention the things she did to Betty while being undercover. She gave her college money to a cult, sold Betty's childhood home, told Betty she was scared of her and told her she trusted the ''Farm'' more than her own daughter. Not to mention that Alice gladly let her daughters friends be indoctrinated into the cult and literally have their organs taken. Kevin lost an ''organ'' and I seriously doubt the Farmie doctors are professionals. So much could have gone wrong. Once again, I understand she couldn't just tell the people of Riverdale not to join the Farm but couldn't she have reported to the FBI? I guess this still just comes down to me thinking this was nothing more than one big [[AssPull]] from the writers so they don't have to redeem Alice emotionally abusing Betty throughout the whole season.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Midge's mom]]
* I swear to God I saw Midge's mom in the Farmie crowd during the Heathers Musical. ''Why'' the hell would she even be out in the streets of Riverdale? She shot [[spoiler: Fangs]]! You'd think she be in jail. Sure, you could chalk it up to Sheriff Minetta being in charge at the time but still.
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On the other hand, she may have genuinely been interested in boys at one time, but now identifies as a lesbian and is only interested in women (or just her girlfriend). It happens.
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** It's very likely Cheryl was deep in the closet before she met Toni, considering how emotionally abusive her parents are, and how badly her mom reacted when she found Cheryl in bed with a female friend some years prior. Her interest in Archie and Nick St. Clair may have just been attempts to try and talk herself into being straight.
On the other hand, she may have genuinely been interested in boys at one time, but now identifies as a lesbian and is only interested in women (or just her girlfriend). It happens.
On the other hand, she may have genuinely been interested in boys at one time, but now identifies as a lesbian and is only interested in women (or just her girlfriend). It happens.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: How is Cheryl a lesbian?]]
* First they said she was bisexual and then they change it to lesbian? Lesbians don't kiss men like how she did to Archie and Moose.
[[folder: How is Cheryl a lesbian?]]
* First they said she was bisexual and then they change it to lesbian? Lesbians don't kiss men like how she did to Archie and Moose.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Cheryl's reaction to the Farm's secret]]
* Cheryl and the other Farmie teens obviously thought it was totally reasonable to receive operations for medical conditions they never had until they met Edgar, and presumably from unqualified "medical staff". So, why was Cheryl so horrified to learn that the Farm is actually harvesting people's organs? If she's so brainwashed, wouldn't she just believe that there's a reasonable explanation for there being a human heart in a box? Also, she's a smart girl, so what did she think was going on with Kevin and Moose having big scars where their kidneys are? I just thought she came to her senses way too easily, all things considered.
[[folder: Cheryl's reaction to the Farm's secret]]
* Cheryl and the other Farmie teens obviously thought it was totally reasonable to receive operations for medical conditions they never had until they met Edgar, and presumably from unqualified "medical staff". So, why was Cheryl so horrified to learn that the Farm is actually harvesting people's organs? If she's so brainwashed, wouldn't she just believe that there's a reasonable explanation for there being a human heart in a box? Also, she's a smart girl, so what did she think was going on with Kevin and Moose having big scars where their kidneys are? I just thought she came to her senses way too easily, all things considered.
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** As far as Spin the Bottle goes, Veronica and Archie going was really bad luck, but from Cheryl's point of view, I don't think it actually mattered. Either Veronica goes with Archie and Betty feels betrayed, some other girl goes with Archie and Betty feels betrayed, or Archie and Betty go and Archie is forced to finally shoot Betty's hopes down for good. With Veronica, Betty's problem is less "Veronica kissed Archie" and more "Veronica claimed to want to help me with Archie, and then she kissed Archie herself anyway." It's not the kiss itself that's the problem (because, as you said, Veronica and Archie can do what they want), it's that from Betty's perspective, Veronica deceived her. Finally, as far as Betty not knowing about the kiss, the implication is that Cheryl said some things to Betty offscreen, while the camera was on Archie and Veronica in the closet, that set her off. Cheryl shook her trust in Veronica, and then Archie confirmed her fears. [[/folder]]
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** As far as Spin the Bottle goes, Veronica and Archie going was really bad luck, but from Cheryl's point of view, I don't think it actually mattered. Either Veronica goes with Archie and Betty feels betrayed, some other girl goes with Archie and Betty feels betrayed, or Archie and Betty go and Archie is forced to finally shoot Betty's hopes down for good. With Veronica, Betty's problem is less "Veronica kissed Archie" and more "Veronica claimed to want to help me with Archie, and then she kissed Archie herself anyway." It's not the kiss itself that's the problem (because, as you said, Veronica and Archie can do what they want), it's that from Betty's perspective, Veronica deceived her. Finally, as far as Betty not knowing about the kiss, the implication is that Cheryl said some things to Betty offscreen, while the camera was on Archie and Veronica in the closet, that set her off. Cheryl shook her trust in Veronica, and then Archie confirmed her fears. [[/folder]]\n
** Another thing about the spin the bottle incident: Veronica claims to have gone into the closet with Archie because it was preferable to Cheryl going with him. Why? Yes, Betty probably wouldn't like her crush to make out with Cheryl, who was frequently awful to her back then. However, is that really worse than Archie possibly making out with Veronica who, as far as we can tell, is Betty's first real female friend? If Cheryl and Archie made out, Veronica could have just trash-talked her to cheer Betty up. Furthermore, wouldn't Betty know that Archie had no interest in Cheryl, and has too much personal integrity to be manipulated by someone so nasty?[[/folder]]
** Another thing about the spin the bottle incident: Veronica claims to have gone into the closet with Archie because it was preferable to Cheryl going with him. Why? Yes, Betty probably wouldn't like her crush to make out with Cheryl, who was frequently awful to her back then. However, is that really worse than Archie possibly making out with Veronica who, as far as we can tell, is Betty's first real female friend? If Cheryl and Archie made out, Veronica could have just trash-talked her to cheer Betty up. Furthermore, wouldn't Betty know that Archie had no interest in Cheryl, and has too much personal integrity to be manipulated by someone so nasty?[[/folder]]
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[[/folder]]
* Another thing about the spin the bottle incident: Veronica claims to have gone into the closet with Archie because it was preferable to Cheryl going with him. Why? Yes, Betty probably wouldn't like her crush to make out with Cheryl, who was frequently awful to her back then. However, is that really worse than Archie possibly making out with Veronica who, as far as we can tell, is Betty's first real female friend? If Cheryl and Archie made out, Veronica could have just trash-talked her to cheer Betty up. Furthermore, wouldn't Betty know that Archie had no interest in Cheryl, and has too much personal integrity to be manipulated by someone so nasty?
* Another thing about the spin the bottle incident: Veronica claims to have gone into the closet with Archie because it was preferable to Cheryl going with him. Why? Yes, Betty probably wouldn't like her crush to make out with Cheryl, who was frequently awful to her back then. However, is that really worse than Archie possibly making out with Veronica who, as far as we can tell, is Betty's first real female friend? If Cheryl and Archie made out, Veronica could have just trash-talked her to cheer Betty up. Furthermore, wouldn't Betty know that Archie had no interest in Cheryl, and has too much personal integrity to be manipulated by someone so nasty?
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* Another thing about the spin the bottle incident: Veronica claims to have gone into the closet with Archie because it was preferable to Cheryl going with him. Why? Yes, Betty probably wouldn't like her crush to make out with Cheryl, who was frequently awful to her back then. However, is that really worse than Archie possibly making out with Veronica who, as far as we can tell, is Betty's first real female friend? If Cheryl and Archie made out, Veronica could have just trash-talked her to cheer Betty up. Furthermore, wouldn't Betty know that Archie had no interest in Cheryl, and has too much personal integrity to be manipulated by someone so nasty?
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!'''Headscratchers pages are Administrivia/SpoilersOff. Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned!'''
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* Why didn't Hal just ''tell'' Polly [[spoiler:that Jason was her cousin when they started dating]]? It makes sense that he wouldn't want to admit it, but if he'd just told her early on, he could've avoided the very thing he was worried about -- [[spoiler:incestuous pregnancy]].
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* Why didn't Hal just ''tell'' Polly [[spoiler:that that Jason was her cousin when they started dating]]? dating? It makes sense that he wouldn't want to admit it, but if he'd just told her early on, he could've avoided the very thing he was worried about -- [[spoiler:incestuous pregnancy]].incestuous pregnancy.
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* So Mary, who is a lawyer, talks Archie and company out of telling Sherriff Keller [[spoiler: that the gun that killed Jason wasn't there when they searched FP's house previously because they discovered that information while breaking and entering, and therefore the gun is inadmissible... what? That's not how the legal system works. There are hundreds of cases where someone comes across evidence of a crime while trespassing or breaking and entering, and that evidence isn't inadmissible unless the person in question is serving as an agent of the police (and therefore violating the person's fourth amendment rights to protection from unlawful search and seizure) so wouldn't a lawyer know something like that?]]]
** [[spoiler: I think that was just Mary dumbing down the situation so the kids would get it. Think about it: if the kids say they broke and entered and that's how they knew there was no gun, that raises the question of ''why'' the kids were breaking and entering in the first place. They broke and entered because Alice Cooper told them to do so, and Alice Cooper told them to do so because she... was suspicious that FP killed Jason. Now, none of that is too bad on its own, except for the fact that there's no way for Archie and Veronica to actually prove that there was no gun in the building before: even if the judge accepts that they're telling the truth having been in there, the prosecution could say that A and V just didn't find it and the cops ''did''. The police simply being better at searching a house is perfectly plausible. Aside from all this, Archie and Veronica are not impartial witnesses, they're friends with FP's kid and his kid's girlfriend and that could skew their testimony. All this means that bringing up the breaking-and-entering a) does nothing to actually help FP's case, b) risks making FP look worse by reminding everyone just how suspicious he actually seems and c) risks opening the kids to prosecution for breaking and entering. Because despite what you may have seen on Scooby-Doo, it is actually ''not'' legal to break into somebody's home to look for evidence that they ''might'' have committed a crime.]]
** [[spoiler: I think that was just Mary dumbing down the situation so the kids would get it. Think about it: if the kids say they broke and entered and that's how they knew there was no gun, that raises the question of ''why'' the kids were breaking and entering in the first place. They broke and entered because Alice Cooper told them to do so, and Alice Cooper told them to do so because she... was suspicious that FP killed Jason. Now, none of that is too bad on its own, except for the fact that there's no way for Archie and Veronica to actually prove that there was no gun in the building before: even if the judge accepts that they're telling the truth having been in there, the prosecution could say that A and V just didn't find it and the cops ''did''. The police simply being better at searching a house is perfectly plausible. Aside from all this, Archie and Veronica are not impartial witnesses, they're friends with FP's kid and his kid's girlfriend and that could skew their testimony. All this means that bringing up the breaking-and-entering a) does nothing to actually help FP's case, b) risks making FP look worse by reminding everyone just how suspicious he actually seems and c) risks opening the kids to prosecution for breaking and entering. Because despite what you may have seen on Scooby-Doo, it is actually ''not'' legal to break into somebody's home to look for evidence that they ''might'' have committed a crime.]]
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* So Mary, who is a lawyer, talks Archie and company out of telling Sherriff Keller [[spoiler: that the gun that killed Jason wasn't there when they searched FP's house previously because they discovered that information while breaking and entering, and therefore the gun is inadmissible... what? That's not how the legal system works. There are hundreds of cases where someone comes across evidence of a crime while trespassing or breaking and entering, and that evidence isn't inadmissible unless the person in question is serving as an agent of the police (and therefore violating the person's fourth amendment rights to protection from unlawful search and seizure) so wouldn't a lawyer know something like that?]]]
that?
**[[spoiler: I think that was just Mary dumbing down the situation so the kids would get it. Think about it: if the kids say they broke and entered and that's how they knew there was no gun, that raises the question of ''why'' the kids were breaking and entering in the first place. They broke and entered because Alice Cooper told them to do so, and Alice Cooper told them to do so because she... was suspicious that FP killed Jason. Now, none of that is too bad on its own, except for the fact that there's no way for Archie and Veronica to actually prove that there was no gun in the building before: even if the judge accepts that they're telling the truth having been in there, the prosecution could say that A and V just didn't find it and the cops ''did''. The police simply being better at searching a house is perfectly plausible. Aside from all this, Archie and Veronica are not impartial witnesses, they're friends with FP's kid and his kid's girlfriend and that could skew their testimony. All this means that bringing up the breaking-and-entering a) does nothing to actually help FP's case, b) risks making FP look worse by reminding everyone just how suspicious he actually seems and c) risks opening the kids to prosecution for breaking and entering. Because despite what you may have seen on Scooby-Doo, it is actually ''not'' legal to break into somebody's home to look for evidence that they ''might'' have committed a crime.]]
**
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** Penny seems to have a weird dynamic with Jughead from the start, which turns into an obsession with taking him down. What with plotting to kill him (or just cut his tattoo off, I don't really remember), she probably forgot about the involvement of the other serpents. That said, she did end up kidnapping Toni briefly (although that was also to draw out Jughead so she and the Ghoulies could kill him).
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[[/folder]]
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* Another thing about the spin the bottle incident: Veronica claims to have gone into the closet with Archie because it was preferable to Cheryl going with him. Why? Yes, Betty probably wouldn't like her crush to make out with Cheryl, who was frequently awful to her back then. However, is that really worse than Archie possibly making out with Veronica who, as far as we can tell, is Betty's first real female friend? If Cheryl and Archie made out, Veronica could have just trash-talked her to cheer Betty up. Furthermore, wouldn't Betty know that Archie had no interest in Cheryl, and has too much personal integrity to be manipulated by someone so nasty?
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** Firstly, keep in mind that Cheryl texted Veronica saying 'I'm going to be with Jason now'. They were mostly sure it was at Sweetwater River, but they weren't 100% sure. Calling the police etc. for Cheryl and saying she was there when she could have been anywhere else actually could have led to Cheryl killing herself successfully. It was lucky Archie got the location right.
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** Maybe due to the fact that portrayal of the Serpents is mostly through Jughead's eyes- the series is his novel, don't forget. So thus, when he was on the Northside where Serpents were the most notorious and disliked gang, they are portrayed as troublemakers. Then he has to go to the Southside where Toni takes him under her wing, where he befriends Fangs and Sweet Pea. Now the Serpents are sympathetic to an extent.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Why are we rooting for the Serpents?]]
* While there are worse villains on the show, the fact is that being in a gang period is a bad thing. It looked like the show was going to showcase that for a while, but then the Serpents are suddenly victims and misunderstood. That seems very messed up. Doesn't the show know that it's sending a dangerous message?
[[folder: Why are we rooting for the Serpents?]]
* While there are worse villains on the show, the fact is that being in a gang period is a bad thing. It looked like the show was going to showcase that for a while, but then the Serpents are suddenly victims and misunderstood. That seems very messed up. Doesn't the show know that it's sending a dangerous message?
