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* Why would the S3 plan call for GW, The Patriots' own AI mind you, to be infected by Emma's worm cluster?
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* Why would the S3 plan call for GW, The Patriots' own AI mind you, to be infected by Emma's worm cluster?cluster?
** GW was only a part of the overall Patriots' AI. If it got infected, there's bound to be antiviruses already made up before Emma could even get hold of it. Remember, she's doing all that digitally and all that information goes back to the Patriots. They knew ahead of time and took precautions against it.
** GW was only a part of the overall Patriots' AI. If it got infected, there's bound to be antiviruses already made up before Emma could even get hold of it. Remember, she's doing all that digitally and all that information goes back to the Patriots. They knew ahead of time and took precautions against it.
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** The thing you're overlooking is quite simple: Stillman didn't have to have doctors confirm his injury. He just had to show up at the occasional talk or in public with a walking cane and acting like he couldn't use his leg and let people draw their own conclusions. Most people will take that at face value. Just like when you were a kid and you pretended to be sick to get out of doing something you didn't want to do--most people won't ask for a second opinion.
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new headscratcher that's been bugging me for years
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** Maybe they took it in piece by piece and assembled it inside?
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** Maybe they took it in piece by piece and assembled it inside?inside?
*Why would the S3 plan call for GW, The Patriots' own AI mind you, to be infected by Emma's worm cluster?
*Why would the S3 plan call for GW, The Patriots' own AI mind you, to be infected by Emma's worm cluster?
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** Codec shatters reality so hard that time just freezes. After all, while not hearing other people makes sense, how the hell does nobody hear you?
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*** He just saw a chance to have Big Boss's genes inside him and had to take it.
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* If Solid has the domininant genes andLiquid had the recessive genes, don't they cease to be identical twins?
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* If Solid has the domininant genes andLiquid and Liquid had the recessive genes, don't they cease to be identical twins?
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** I too felt this was a glaring plothole but my best guess is that Ocelot was bullshitting in the previous game and they actually are identical twins.
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moved from fridge
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** Actually, Liquid is the dominant one, or at least, the intended superior Snake, and Solid is the “inferior” clone, because for some reason or another, Liquid was misinformed. This doesn’t answer the question of how the DNA test would fool people, but as another part of either this page or the Fridge page said, the Patriots might have let it slide, or something. Plus, I personally doubt either is 100% recessive or dominant, just one has a supposedly superior genetic makeup compared to the other. Or genetics and terminology related to it just works differently in the Metal Gear universe, I mean, is the super baby method accurate to real life?
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** Actually, Liquid is the dominant one, or at least, the intended superior Snake, and Solid is the “inferior” clone, because for some reason or another, Liquid was misinformed. This doesn’t answer the question of how the DNA test would fool people, but as another part of either this page or the Fridge page said, the Patriots might have let it slide, or something. Plus, I personally doubt either is 100% recessive or dominant, just one has a supposedly superior genetic makeup compared to the other. Or genetics and terminology related to it just works differently in the Metal Gear universe, I mean, is the super baby method accurate to real life?life?
* Where in upstate New York did they load Metal Gear RAY onto that ship?
** Maybe they took it in piece by piece and assembled it inside?
* Where in upstate New York did they load Metal Gear RAY onto that ship?
** Maybe they took it in piece by piece and assembled it inside?
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* If Solid has the domininant genes andLiquid had the recessive genes, don't they cease to be identical twins?
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* If Solid has the domininant genes andLiquid had the recessive genes, don't they cease to be identical twins?twins?
**Actually, Liquid is the dominant one, or at least, the intended superior Snake, and Solid is the “inferior” clone, because for some reason or another, Liquid was misinformed. This doesn’t answer the question of how the DNA test would fool people, but as another part of either this page or the Fridge page said, the Patriots might have let it slide, or something. Plus, I personally doubt either is 100% recessive or dominant, just one has a supposedly superior genetic makeup compared to the other. Or genetics and terminology related to it just works differently in the Metal Gear universe, I mean, is the super baby method accurate to real life?
**Actually, Liquid is the dominant one, or at least, the intended superior Snake, and Solid is the “inferior” clone, because for some reason or another, Liquid was misinformed. This doesn’t answer the question of how the DNA test would fool people, but as another part of either this page or the Fridge page said, the Patriots might have let it slide, or something. Plus, I personally doubt either is 100% recessive or dominant, just one has a supposedly superior genetic makeup compared to the other. Or genetics and terminology related to it just works differently in the Metal Gear universe, I mean, is the super baby method accurate to real life?
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His hair is blonde because he spent most of his life in the desert. The end narration of the first game makes it clear that Liquid had it backwards.
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*** Solidus is touted not only as a survivor of the project, but is a perfect clone of Big Boss. As in, not a Liquid, or Solid Snake, but, a 1 to 1 clone OF Big Boss, where as Liquid was a recessive clone, with BB's recessive genes, and Solid Snake was, for lack of a better term, a dominant clone, with the dominant genes of BB. That's also why Liquid and Solid Snake actually aren't completely identical; Liquid has blue eyes and blond hair. Solid has green eyes and brown hair. Big Boss actually has a greenish-blue hue color in his eyes. It's not a stretch for Snake to not see either a similarity to himself, Liquid, or even Big Boss himself.
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*** Solidus is touted not only as a survivor of the project, but is a perfect clone of Big Boss. As in, not a Liquid, or Solid Snake, but, a 1 to 1 clone OF Big Boss, where as Liquid was a recessive dominant clone, with BB's recessive dominant genes, and Solid Snake was, for lack of a better term, a dominant recessive clone, with the dominant recessive genes of BB. That's also why Liquid and Solid Snake actually aren't completely identical; Liquid has blue eyes and blond blonde hair. Solid has green brown eyes and brown hair. Big Boss actually has a greenish-blue hue color in his eyes. It's not a stretch for Snake to not see either a similarity to himself, Liquid, or even Big Boss himself.
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Liquid had the recessive genes, hence his blond hair. The confusion comes from Ocelot calling Solid the weaker twin, but recessive =/= weak.
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*** Solidus is touted not only as a survivor of the project, but is a perfect clone of Big Boss. As in, not a Liquid, or Solid Snake, but, a 1 to 1 clone OF Big Boss, where as Liquid was a dominant clone, with BB's dominant genes, and Solid Snake was, for lack of a better term, recessive clone, with the recessive genes of BB. That's also why Liquid and Solid Snake actually aren't completely identical; Liquid has blue eyes and blonde hair. Solid has brown eyes and brown hair. Big Boss actually has a greenish-blue hue color in his eyes. It's not a stretch for Snake to not see either a similarity to himself, Liquid, or even Big Boss himself.
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*** Solidus is touted not only as a survivor of the project, but is a perfect clone of Big Boss. As in, not a Liquid, or Solid Snake, but, a 1 to 1 clone OF Big Boss, where as Liquid was a dominant recessive clone, with BB's dominant recessive genes, and Solid Snake was, for lack of a better term, recessive a dominant clone, with the recessive dominant genes of BB. That's also why Liquid and Solid Snake actually aren't completely identical; Liquid has blue eyes and blonde blond hair. Solid has brown green eyes and brown hair. Big Boss actually has a greenish-blue hue color in his eyes. It's not a stretch for Snake to not see either a similarity to himself, Liquid, or even Big Boss himself.
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*** Given that during his presidency, as George Sears, he didn't look anything like he does now. He was clean shaven, which, is actually a pretty solid distinction, pun not intended. Have you seen someone who has had a beard for quite a long time, and suddenly just shaves it off completely?? It's jarring. Add in the fact that many people here on the Big Shell probably didn't interact a lot, or see a lot of Sears in his presidency. It really isn't surprising that people would have a hard time recognizing him.
*** Solidus is touted not only as a survivor of the project, but is a perfect clone of Big Boss. As in, not a Liquid, or Solid Snake, but, a 1 to 1 clone OF Big Boss, where as Liquid was a dominant clone, with BB's dominant genes, and Solid Snake was, for lack of a better term, recessive clone, with the recessive genes of BB. That's also why Liquid and Solid Snake actually aren't completely identical; Liquid has blue eyes and blonde hair. Solid has brown eyes and brown hair. Big Boss actually has a greenish-blue hue color in his eyes. It's not a stretch for Snake to not see either a similarity to himself, Liquid, or even Big Boss himself.
*** Solidus is touted not only as a survivor of the project, but is a perfect clone of Big Boss. As in, not a Liquid, or Solid Snake, but, a 1 to 1 clone OF Big Boss, where as Liquid was a dominant clone, with BB's dominant genes, and Solid Snake was, for lack of a better term, recessive clone, with the recessive genes of BB. That's also why Liquid and Solid Snake actually aren't completely identical; Liquid has blue eyes and blonde hair. Solid has brown eyes and brown hair. Big Boss actually has a greenish-blue hue color in his eyes. It's not a stretch for Snake to not see either a similarity to himself, Liquid, or even Big Boss himself.
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** To keep up appearances, maybe?
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** To keep up appearances, maybe?maybe?
* If Solid has the domininant genes andLiquid had the recessive genes, don't they cease to be identical twins?
* If Solid has the domininant genes andLiquid had the recessive genes, don't they cease to be identical twins?
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*** Yes. See: The Patriots specifically represent the [[HideoKojima game designers.]]
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*** Yes. See: The Patriots specifically represent the [[HideoKojima [[Creator/HideoKojima game designers.]]
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*** The above troper is correct; furthermore, it's not even a tactic unique to ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'''s storytelling; see also ''BioShock'', ''Spec Ops: The Line'', ''Shadow of the Colossus'', ''BioShock Infinite''...
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*** The above troper is correct; furthermore, it's not even a tactic unique to ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'''s storytelling; see also ''BioShock'', ''VideoGame/BioShock'', ''Spec Ops: The Line'', ''Shadow of the Colossus'', ''BioShock Infinite''...''VideoGame/BioShockInfinite''...
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*** The above troper is correct; furthermore, it's not even a tactic unique to ''MGS2'''s storytelling; see also ''BioShock'', ''Spec Ops: The Line'', ''Shadow of the Colossus'', ''BioShock Infinite''...
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*** The above troper is correct; furthermore, it's not even a tactic unique to ''MGS2'''s ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'''s storytelling; see also ''BioShock'', ''Spec Ops: The Line'', ''Shadow of the Colossus'', ''BioShock Infinite''...
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Sears was President 43 and Johnson 44, so their equivalents are Bush and Obama, not Clinton and Bush.
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** Honestly, it doesn't seem like ''anybody'' recognises Solidus as the former President. Almost no character comments on it; all everyone cares about is whether or not he is Solid Snake- the hostage Richard Ames calls him "Snake" and neither Solid nor Otacon point out that this guy looks REALLY familiar. It isn't until we meet President Johnson that we learn the guy we've been fighting is his predecessor and even then, nobody seems surprised that they didn't recognise him all this time. To put this in perspective, the plot of the game is basically that Bill Clinton has become a terrorist, seized control of a oil cleaning facility and taken George W. Bush and much of his staff hostage with the help of Russian mercenaries and a renegade US Special Forces team... and everyone just rolls with it. It's...more than a bit weird.
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** Honestly, it doesn't seem like ''anybody'' recognises Solidus as the former President. Almost no character comments on it; all everyone cares about is whether or not he is Solid Snake- the hostage Richard Ames calls him "Snake" and neither Solid nor Otacon point out that this guy looks REALLY familiar. It isn't until we meet President Johnson that we learn the guy we've been fighting is his predecessor and even then, nobody seems surprised that they didn't recognise him all this time. To put this in perspective, the plot of the game is basically that Bill Clinton George W. Bush has become a terrorist, seized control of a oil cleaning facility and taken George W. Bush Barack Obama and much of his staff hostage with the help of Russian mercenaries and a renegade US Special Forces team... and everyone just rolls with it. It's...more than a bit weird.
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** It's still really strange behavior for him to swim back to that room, place some mines and then not actually engage Raiden in battle. Especially when the next time we see him he's leaping out of the ocean implying he was washed out there from the boss room.
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Added an entry to this section. But by all accounts it still doesn't make sense.
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** The Digital Graphic Novel has Solidus saying something along the lines of lamenting his failed legacy as he falls down; whether this was something that was always intended for Solidus to say for that scene back in 2001, or just a line added retroactively for the sake of the novel, well...[[ShrugTake i'unno.]]
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** The Colonel actually rules out melee combat as an option if you call him after trying and failing to shoot her. Presumably, it's just too dangerous to try running at her when she's firing a railgun at you.
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** Honestly, it doesn't seem like ''anybody'' recognises Solidus as the former President. Almost no character comments on it; all everyone cares about is whether or not he is Solid Snake- the hostage Richard Ames calls him "Snake" and neither Solid nor Otacon point out that this guy looks REALLY familiar. It isn't until we meet President Johnson that we learn the guy we've been fighting is his predecessor and even then, nobody seems surprised that they didn't recognise him all this time. To put this in perspective, the plot of the game is basically that Bill Clinton has become a terrorist, seized control of a oil cleaning facility and taken George W. Bush and much of his staff hostage with the help of Russian mercenaries and a renegade US Special Forces team... and everyone just rolls with it. It's...more than a bit weird.
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** So, the question Ocelot ''thinks'' the Patriots want answered is: could ''anyone'' have survived Shadow Moses? Did we need to send a legendary soldier, or did the nature of the situation itself memetically create a perfect soldier? The real question the Patriots are asking is much more complicated and postmodern, though.
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*** Even if it's in Ocelot's voice, who else could Snake have possibly thought it was? Do other characters refer to Snake as "Brrrrrrrother!!!"?
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*** What about his nanomachines allowed him to run vertically up walls, then? Or spin so fast he deflects bullets? I think it's pretty clear that as of GOP he's a vampire who also has nanomachines.
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*** When you cross back over the bridge from the Shell 2 core with Emma, someone's helpfully added replacement panels which allow her to cross. Maybe someone did the same to the Shell 1 core.
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** Also, the first hour or so of the Plant chapter is a tutorial for new players, whereas the Tanker chapter only bothers teaching the player new moves debuting in this game, and assumes they know the basics of MGS gameplay. The plot does the same thing; there's none of the AsYouKnow that the Plant chapter has.
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** Or, considering if the Patriots are manipulating everything; they probably manipulated the reports that the gun isn't ready for combat, yet had one that was perfectly operational and she had the first and only working model.
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** And bear in mind it's been established that within the games' universe, realistic masks indistinguishable from a real face have been around since at least the 1960s, and since Olga is seen wearing a cyborg-ninja suit that gives her masculine features, it's not far fetched for someone in-universe to suspect that what looks like a male is really a disguised female.
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** And bear in mind it's been established that within the games' universe, realistic masks almost indistinguishable from a real face have been around since at least the 1960s, and since Olga is seen wearing a cyborg-ninja suit that gives her masculine features, it's not far fetched for someone in-universe to suspect that what looks like a male is really a disguised female.
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*** The above troper is correct; furthermore, it's not even a tactic unique to ''MGS2'''s storytelling; see also ''BioShock'', ''Spec Ops: The Line'', ''Shadow of the Colossus'', ''BioShock Infinite''...
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Removed per TRS.
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* Are there other members of Philanthropy besides Snake and Otacon? If there are, why the hell aren't they ever seen or mentioned? As {{Badass}} as Snake is, he can't be two places at once. If he really wanted to shut down every Metal Gear on Earth, you'd think he'd look for some help. In any case, it seems like he'd need to get more members if he wanted to get recognition from the UN. To the UN, one field agent doesn't look like an organized group...it just looks like a lone terrorist. And if there are more members of Philanthropy, then what happened to the organization after Snake faked his death?
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* Are there other members of Philanthropy besides Snake and Otacon? If there are, why the hell aren't they ever seen or mentioned? As {{Badass}} badass as Snake is, he can't be two places at once. If he really wanted to shut down every Metal Gear on Earth, you'd think he'd look for some help. In any case, it seems like he'd need to get more members if he wanted to get recognition from the UN. To the UN, one field agent doesn't look like an organized group...it just looks like a lone terrorist. And if there are more members of Philanthropy, then what happened to the organization after Snake faked his death?
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** Could be a bit of FridgeBrilliance {{Foreshadowing}} here, with a slice of FridgeHorror. We find out later that Raiden was a child soldier in Africa in the 80s AND that his entire job was a lie, to the point that he never even met the "Colonel" who was giving him orders, and his training regime was completely virtual. AND we know that he is actually an UnwittingPawn of the Patriots all along, a test subject for how they plan to control and manipulate humanity. What if he legitimately ''doesn't know'' who President Sears was because the Patriots controlled almost everything he learned (and, perhaps, recent immigrant to the US who didn't exactly have a normal childhood)?
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** A better question is why Stillman interpreted a Navy SEAL dropping mottoes from the Marines and the SAS as evidence that he isn't a SEAL. It's not a case of "even Stillman caught on to it" so much as "Stillman is making a BatDeduction". Heck, many SEALS are actually ''recruited'' from the ranks of the Marines, and both SEALS and Marines train and work with the SAS and each other on occasion. It would be more unusual if a Navy SEAL ''didn't'' know the mottoes of both organisations (especially if Stillman, a civilian, is fully informed), and it isn't all ''that'' weird that a SEAL would be quoting them.
