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** Original poster here, thanks for the reply. As said it's been a few years since I read 'Fellowship' and I remember the movies more than the books, so that might have just slipped my mind.
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* Many argue that the Eagles didn't take the hobbits to Mordor because they were afraid of Sauron and/or because they knew that the ring would have corrupted them if they got anywhere near it. But once Sauron is dead and the ring has been destroyed, there's no reason why they can't swoop in to save Frodo and Sam.

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* ** Many argue that the Eagles didn't take the hobbits to Mordor because they were afraid of Sauron and/or because they knew that the ring would have corrupted them if they got anywhere near it. But once Sauron is dead and the ring has been destroyed, there's no reason why they can't swoop in to save Frodo and Sam.
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* Many argue that the Eagles didn't take the hobbits to Mordor because they were afraid of Sauron and/or because they knew that the ring would have corrupted them if they got anywhere near it. But once Sauron is dead and the ring has been destroyed, there's no reason why they can't swoop in to save Frodo and Sam.
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*** None of that prevents Sauron from just building a big wall around the base of the mountain and assigning a bunch of orcs to guard it. The better explanation is that he didn't bother guarding Mount Doom because he couldn't imagine that anyone would willingly destroy the ring.
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** [[StoryExistenceFailure Per the above]], it doesn't matter in my opinion but Gandalf did mention approaching Mordor from the East. Or rather, [[WordOfGod Tolkien]] mentioned [[AuthorStandIn Gandalf]] mentioning it [[AllThereInTheManual off-screen]] in ''Letters.'' Long and short of it was, that is the route Gandalf preferred to take [[WalkIntoMordor on foot]], being unguarded, but it would have required Aragorn or Gandalf remain with the party for a long trek thru enemy territory while the two decoy hobbits and surplus warriors proceeded to Gondor. Unfortunately, since the Ring's powers increased, having two walking [[SuperWeight power beacons]] to [[StoneWall protect them]] might have been a bad thing, leading the hobbits to get captured, or worse, Aragorn or Gandalf might have been tempted to take the Ring to "protect" the [[TheLoad helpless and slow-moving]] Hobbits.

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** [[StoryExistenceFailure Per the above]], it doesn't matter in my opinion but Gandalf did mention approaching Mordor from the East. Or rather, [[WordOfGod Tolkien]] mentioned [[AuthorStandIn Gandalf]] mentioning it [[AllThereInTheManual off-screen]] in ''Letters.'' Long and short of it was, that is the route Gandalf preferred to take [[WalkIntoMordor on foot]], being unguarded, but it would have required Aragorn or Gandalf remain with the party for a long trek thru enemy territory while the two decoy hobbits and surplus warriors proceeded to Gondor. Unfortunately, since the Ring's powers increased, having two walking [[SuperWeight [[JustForFun/SuperWeight power beacons]] to [[StoneWall protect them]] might have been a bad thing, leading the hobbits to get captured, or worse, Aragorn or Gandalf might have been tempted to take the Ring to "protect" the [[TheLoad helpless and slow-moving]] Hobbits.
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* He tried. The books give us a pretty detailed itinerary of Gollum's journeys. He left his cave to look for Bilbo and the Ring about two years after the events of ''The Hobbit'', but didn't know where the Shire was. He wandered around Rhovanion, through Mirkwood and even as far as Dale before he discovered its location, then turned around and headed west towards the Shire. However, at the time Sauron was calling all his servants back to Mordor, and Gollum having held the Ring so long was left open to the summons - he was drawn south to Mordor, where he was captured, interrogated, and Sauron learned about "Shire" and "Baggins." Eventually, Sauron let Gollum "escape" to track down the Ring so he could follow him to it, but Gollum was captured by Aragorn at the Dead Marshes, who brought him to Mirkwood. There Gollum was interrogated by Gandalf, who learned all about his history with the Ring and Mordor. He remained captive in the Woodland Realm until he escaped during using an orc raid as cover. He seems to have tried to find the Shire ''again'' but ended up in Moria, where he was trying to cross the Misty Mountains, but couldn't find his way out the other side. That's where he encountered the Fellowship and began following them.
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*** Or possibly taken to Middle-Earth by the Faithful some time before the Downfall, since a significant number of that faction (and all the Drúedain according to ''Unfinished Tales'') left Númenor when the the Shadow began to fall and the decline began.
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[[folder:Why didn't Gollum go to the Shire himself?]]
It's been a while since I've read the books, but I remember the scene in the film, and I'm sure it was handled similarly in the first book, where Gollum is tortured by the Orcs to reveal where the ring is. He tells them that 'Baggins' has it, in the Shire, and so they set out to get it, which is why Frodo and Sam head to Bree. But the thing is... if Gollum knew that, then what was he doing for the last 50 years, give or take, while Bilbo had it? Did he never once consider going to the Shire himself to get it back? Apologies in advance if there's an obvious answer to this, as said I haven't read the books in quite some years now, but surely if Gollum knew that all along (which he did), he could have done something about it himself, right?
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*** ''Dwarven'' magic, as the Dwarves of the Erebor forged the mithril coat.
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** Aragorn mentions that the Shire had long been under the protection of the Dunedain, even though they didn't realize it. Presumably that's who fended off the bandits and marauders.
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** As for sending the Orcs of Moria to march on Rivendell, those are under the control of the Balrog, which is a being of the same order as Sauron and not likely to take his orders. And more to the point, the Balrog is one of the few entities in Middle-Earth that could plausibly master the One Ring and dethrone without excess difficulty, so Sauron absolutely does not want the Ring falling into its hands.
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** All Númenóreans had far longer lives than ordinary Men, just the royal clan (descendants of Elros and so having a significant percent of Elven genes) lived up to 300-400 years, while commoners [[ReallySevenHundredYearsOld only]] lived a bit more than 200 years. It's in the ''Literature/UnfinishedTales'', the story of King Aldarion and Erendis: he lived to be 398 years old and reigned for 192 of them, while she, as a commoner, lived only 214 years. Their daughter, Queen Ancalimë (half-Elrosian by genes), lived 412 years.

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** All Númenóreans had far longer lives than ordinary Men, just the royal clan (descendants of Elros and so having a significant percent of Elven genes) lived up to 300-400 years, while commoners [[ReallySevenHundredYearsOld only]] lived a bit more than 200 years. It's in the ''Literature/UnfinishedTales'', ''Literature/UnfinishedTalesOfNumenorAndMiddleEarth'', the story of King Aldarion and Erendis: he lived to be 398 years old and reigned for 192 of them, while she, as a commoner, lived only 214 years. Their daughter, Queen Ancalimë (half-Elrosian by genes), lived 412 years.
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** All Númenóreans had far longer lives than ordinary Men, just the royal clan (descendants of Elros and so having a significant percent of Elven genes) lived up to 300-400 years, while commoners [[ReallySevenHundredYearsOld only]] lived a bit more than 200 years. It's in the ''Literature/{{Unfinished Tales'', the story of King Aldarion and Erendis: he lived to be 398 years old and reigned for 192 of them, while she, as a commoner, lived only 214 years. Their daughter, Queen Ancalimë (half-Elrosian by genes), lived 412 years.

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** All Númenóreans had far longer lives than ordinary Men, just the royal clan (descendants of Elros and so having a significant percent of Elven genes) lived up to 300-400 years, while commoners [[ReallySevenHundredYearsOld only]] lived a bit more than 200 years. It's in the ''Literature/{{Unfinished Tales'', ''Literature/UnfinishedTales'', the story of King Aldarion and Erendis: he lived to be 398 years old and reigned for 192 of them, while she, as a commoner, lived only 214 years. Their daughter, Queen Ancalimë (half-Elrosian by genes), lived 412 years.
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* Remember the 6-foot-diameter black rock (implied to be a meteor, therefore extra heavy even for a big rock) where Aragorn summons the Dead to redeem themselves for the last great battle? We're told it came from Númenor. How did Elendil and his comrades, in the midst of Númenor's sudden destruction by flood and tsunami, possibly manage to wrestle a 20-ton chunk of rock from wherever it was being displayed, onto a wooden ship to take to Middle-Earth with them? And why would they have bothered?
** The Stone of Erech. And you're right, it is a little odd. All right, try this: The ''only'' really practical, pre-industrial way to move a 12'-diameter ball of hematite would be by ship. For ''some reason,'' probably to transport it from the place of its discovery to a more permanent place of display (or to some Númenórean workshop), the Stone was already loaded onto one of Elendil's ships that fateful day. With the last cranes and hoists capable of ''unloading'' it sinking into the sea behind them, Elendil said, "Hell with this, we'll dump it once we get there. Let it be our first act of littering upon that new continent."
** Maybe Elendil knew that oaths made on the Stone retained their power even after the death of the oathgiver, so it was one of the relics he wanted to bring along and he arranged to have it retrieved and put on a ship in readiness to leave Númenor.
** As to how they even got it on the ship in the first place, there are several subtle implications that Númenor at its height was quite advanced technologically. Tolkien makes vague references to "engines" and a weapon that could be an ICBM. Númenor may have been less of a High Fantasy kingdom and more of a Steampunk, or even Dieselpunk, industrial empire. If that's the case, then it's not impossible to imagine that they had something we'd recognize as construction equipment like a crane or a bulldozer. Or perhaps something even more hi-tech than that. Middle-Earth after the Second Age was basically a Post-Apocalyptic society anyway, so it's not too great a leap to make.
** There was also a period fairly late in Numenor's decay when they ruled as tyrants over the peoples of Middle-Earth. Perhaps the stone was a relic of that period, and already in Middle-Earth at the Downfall?
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*** On the other hand, Gollum was liberated from the elves by the Mirkwood orcs. And even the White Council, as we know, hadn't been sure or some time that it was Sauron who stood behind the evil in Mirkwood. It's possible that Gollum doesn't know aboud the allegiance of Mirkwood evil and thus distinguishes between Mordor and Mirkwood, deeming the latter his friends.

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*** On the other hand, Gollum was liberated from the elves by the Mirkwood orcs. And even the White Council, as we know, hadn't been sure or for some time that it was Sauron who stood behind the evil in Mirkwood. It's possible that Gollum doesn't know aboud about the allegiance of Mirkwood evil and thus distinguishes between Mordor and Mirkwood, deeming the latter his friends.
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** Aside from the genetic aspect, it's mentioned in the ''Silmarillion'' that the Númenorians have been losing their extended lifespan over time, as a combination of Elf-envy (since they had true immortality and the Undying Lands were much closer to Númenor than Middle-earth was) and growing colonial arrogance was spiritually corrupting them; despite the pure bloodline, and warfare-related deaths notwithstanding, Aragorn was the first Man of the West in millennia to live for centuries the way his forbears did, ''and'' had the ability to die peacefully of his own choice instead of having life ripped away from him. This implies that aside from the bloodline, there's an individual, spiritual component to realizing the potential of being of Dúnedain descent that few ever manage to fulfill.



* The elves who were trying to dissuade the Númenóreans from invading the undying lands point out that it's not the land that makes them immortal, and that any humans who were permitted to go there would actually ''shorten'' their lifespan, since the sheer glory of the place basically burns mortal bodies out all the more quickly.

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* The elves who were trying to dissuade the Númenóreans from invading the undying lands Undying Lands point out that it's not the land that makes them immortal, and that any humans who were permitted to go there would actually ''shorten'' their lifespan, since the sheer glory of the place basically burns mortal bodies out all the more quickly.quickly.
* For the Ring-bearers (Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam as well), their passage to the Undying Lands, even if it's just the island of Tol Eressea, is partly in recognition that having carried and used the Ring, even for a short time, has spiritually changed all of them; they've already been exposed to the immortal realm, and felt the effects of their spirit exceeding the capability of their bodies to sustain it. Even if they will eventually die, at least dwelling near Valinor (or even on it) may give their spirits the necessary lift to die in peace, feeling whole from the damage the Ring did to all of them. Special dispensation from the Valar isn't mentioned, but somehow everyone sailing into the West knows that it's where they now need to be. As for Gimli, being a creation of Aulë, we never know if the power of Valinor works against his soul the way it does for other mortals, and as both a member of the Fellowship and symbolically one of the healers of the rift between Dwarves and the Sindar elves (with Legolas), it just feels... right, somehow, that Gimli would not cause his friend to be turned away when they travel the Straight Road.
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** Not to mention that to reach Rivendell, Sauron has to march tough vast miles of wilderness that passes through multiple regions that are hostile to him. His armies would have to bypass Gondor, and depending on his route he might have to fight the elves or Rohan and possibly might end up fighting Saruman depending on how he interprets a Mordor army marching upon his domain.
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*** On the other hand, Gollum was liberated from the elves by the Mirkwood orcs. And even the White Council, as we know, hadn't been sure or some time that it was Sauron who stood behind the evil in Mirkwood. It's possible that Gollum doesn't know aboud the allegiance of Mirkwood evil and thus distinguishes between Mordor and Mirkwood, deeming the latter his friends.

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** In Tolkien's extended notes he writes that Lembas was made from a special, silver-coloured kind of corn (the medieval/European definition of corn, namely wheat) that, along with the art of lembas making was closely guarded by a an-female Elven guild called the Ivandilli of which Galadriel was simply the last, high ranking member at the end of the Third Age. Said corn was difficult to grow in Middle Earth (it didn't grow in the shade of other plants) and kept out o sight to prevent it from falling into the hands of the enemy. Really, the bigger question is where Galadriel grew all that corn in her closed-off forest.It's even perfectly possible that end the end of the Third Age the corn wasn't grown at all anymore and Lothlorien was working off a finite supply of Lembas Flour that was kept from spoiling by the power of Nenya alone.

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** In Tolkien's extended notes he writes that Lembas was made from a special, silver-coloured kind of corn (the medieval/European definition of corn, namely wheat) that, along with the art of lembas making was closely guarded by a an-female Elven guild called the Ivandilli of which Galadriel was simply the last, high ranking member at the end of the Third Age. Said corn was difficult to grow in Middle Earth (it didn't grow in the shade of other plants) and kept out o of sight to prevent it from falling into the hands of the enemy. Really, the bigger question is where Galadriel grew all that corn in her closed-off forest. It's even perfectly possible that end the end of the Third Age the corn wasn't grown at all anymore and Lothlorien was working off a finite supply of Lembas Flour that was kept from spoiling by the power of Nenya alone.


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** And... do not bring Creator/TerryPratchett's Literature/{{Discworld}} subversion of dwarf bread into the discussion.
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** Some orcs did free Gollum from Mirkwood and the elves are pretty sure it had somehow been prearranged and Gollum was in on it...so as strange as it sounds...yes, Gollum does see Sauron's forces as friends in his twisted worldview.

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** Some orcs did free Gollum from Mirkwood and the elves are pretty sure it had somehow been prearranged and Gollum was in on it...so it..[[note]]Sauron possibly reasoning that something else out there with a very big incentive to locate the Ring wouldn't do him any harm and could be an advantage?[[/note]]so as strange as it sounds...yes, Gollum does see Sauron's forces as friends in his twisted worldview.
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Tidying


** It's what you could call the ''Piper At The Gates of Dawn'' theory: this is the chapter of ''Literature/TheWindInTheWillows'' that serves no apparent purpose, breaks continuity. which in tone and style is completely different, a sort of dream-like interlude... but the book would feel incomplete without it. Grahame, like Tolkien, is demonstrating that there is a greater whole, an unexplored world, unanswered questions, that would still be there regardless, however this currenr tale ends, or indeed if it never happened at all.

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** It's what you could call the ''Piper At The Gates of Dawn'' theory: this is the chapter of ''Literature/TheWindInTheWillows'' that serves no apparent purpose, breaks continuity. continuity, which in tone and style is completely different, a sort of dream-like interlude... but the book would feel incomplete without it. Tolkien, like Grahame, like Tolkien, is demonstrating that there is a greater whole, an unexplored world, unanswered questions, that would still be there regardless, however this currenr current tale ends, or indeed if it never happened at all.
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Like CS Lewis as Christian apologia, only infinitely more subtle

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** Tolkien was careful not to write anything into the book that contradicted his Christianity; the whole book can be read as a Christian allegory. Of course God won't directly intervene in the world until its Last Days and the events of the Apocalypse. [[note]]His previous direct intervention may be explained, InUniverse, as the event modern humanity dimly remembers as the Noachic Flood[[/note]]
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*** You mean that the fear and hatred for Sauron Gollum clearly shows much later while talking to Frodo is exclusively due to the fact that Sauron is also after the Ring?

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*** You mean that the fear and hatred for Sauron Gollum clearly shows much later while talking to Frodo is exclusively due to the fact that Sauron is also after the Ring?Ring? And otherwise, no hard feelings?
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*** You mean that the fear and hatred for Sauron Gollum clearly shows much later while talking to Frodo is exclusively due to the fact that Sauron is also after the Ring?
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** Also, had Saruman known Gandalf could do that (and he would, being the same kind of an entity but more powerful), he'd have imprisoned him somewhere else, where Gandalf couldn't escape. Besides, this sort of a stunt is tempting fate. Basically, though, Gandalf ''did'' die (his body did, at least) in Moria - it's just that for him, a Maia, body is kind of optional and he got a new one, since his task wasn't finished yet. Like in ''Literature/GoodOmens'' - Aziraphale's body is killed, but he isn't. He gets a new body.
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** Some orcs did free Gollum from Mirkwood and the elves are pretty sure it had somehow been prearranged and Gollum was in on it...so as strange as it sounds...yes, Gollum does see Sauron's forces as friends in his twisted worldview.

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