Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** There are probably people who think it is worth it to be the person who took out John Wick. While being part of the team that did that could be good for some, competition seems to be the name of the game and being the person who tops John Wick would possibly be considered an asset for many. Sharing that glory might be counterintuitive to a lot of them.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** I personally wouldn’t want to get in the middle of that, and I think most people are the same. Like they aren't just mad gunmen, they are professionals who the average person couldn’t take down.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** There are no 'conflicting Markers' - they're not generally currency, they are specific to the assassin that gave it out (hence the thumbprint in blood). There is no conflict unless Wick personally gave out more than 1 Marker (which he did not). A different assassin's Marker is irrelevant to Wick's task. If Gianna had a Marker from Cassian, for instance, she could certainly send him after her brother - but that wouldn't stop Wick from killing her.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 219 (click to see context) from:
*** That would require coordinated effort from a large group of professional assassins. Santino has a large group of soldiers but most of them were killed by John in the catacombs (hence the open bounty). After that all of the groups hunting John were small team or individuals. Up until the third movie John hasn't fought anyone with the numbers and resources to pull off that kind of coordinated operation.
to:
*** That would require coordinated effort from a large group of professional assassins. Santino has a large group of soldiers but most of them were killed by John in the catacombs (hence the open bounty). After that all of the groups hunting John were small team teams or individuals. Up until the third movie John hasn't fought anyone with the numbers and resources to pull off that kind of coordinated operation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Based on the nicer suit, I just figured he was the guy on the bike that Wick took out with the car door. Having a shot showing him explicitly getting on the bike initially may have thrown the fast pace of the scene off a little.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Loophole]]
* So in Chapter 2, John shoots Santino at the Continental. Aside from the drama of John being excommunicado... why the hell didn't John just physically drag Santino out of the building and shoot him outside? Winston is clearly okay with a little LoopholeAbuse and very much understands why John is as angry as he is, so this would seem to be the more obvious way to go.
** If he dragged Santino outside to do the deed, it might have become purely a High Table matter, at which point John would have been marked for death twice over before the day was out. However, killing him in the Continental put him under Winston's jurisdiction, at which point Winston could give Wick an actual grace period as well as advanced warning for his precise consequences. In a sense, there was no real out for John in this situation, so it was a choice between putting himself to Winston's judgment or the High Table's.
** Physically removing Santino from the hotel is just a slightly more complex way of killing him on Continental grounds, which is a massive no-no, even for someone as regarded as John. If you could get away with it by doing it in that manner, especially in a way that would be clearly visible to everyone else staying in the hotel, then whatever value the Continental's SacredHospitality once held is gone.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Winston and the Marker]]
* How does Winston giving John a marker at the end of Chapter 2 work? If John is excommunicado, doesn't that mean that he is cut off from all Continental "services", including, presumably, having his markers honored? Or alternatively, if the markers still work, then can't John give Winston the marker and force him to lift the excommunicado status?
** It's probably less of a technical marker and more of a promise. Winston cannot lift excommunicado - doing so just doesn't happen and would invalidate the Continental's SacredHospitality. The Marker is probably for a lesser favor, or even an excuse for another friend or Continental agent to shelter John if need be. "I'd kick him out, but he cashed in a marker, you know how it goes. Wink-wink."
** I would assume that the Markers aren't a Continental thing. Just something the Continental was involved in. Winston specifically says at one point about having to ask the High Table, and the High Table wouldn't allow what he was asking. The High Table apparently has more control over Markers than the Continental. It was also pointed out that Markers must be paid under any circumstances. The High Table wouldn't cancel a marker asking to murder a member of the High Table.
** Perhaps it's the marker Santino called in? Might help John explain to the High Table ''why'' he killed Santino, if anyone gives him the chance.
** The marker could also be blank, so that John can buy some help if he can find a willing benefactor.
** A third possibility is that it's a marker that Winston owed to Wick, and the reason for the grace period and lack of instant death.
** I think we're perhaps overthinking this a little. Winston presumably cannot overrule the excommunicado, but he ''can'' grant John a simple favour out of personal regard. He's probably not ''supposed'' to, but dash it all, he likes and sympathises with the guy, so despite everything is willing to grant him some small assistance. Besides which, doing so puts John into Winston's personal debt which, given John's skills, could be a very useful thing indeed for Winston.
** It has been revealed in the sequel that the marker was not Winston's. He was holding a marker for John that John would cash in. It was someone else's marker that owed John a favor.
** You misunderstand, I think. The one Winston gave him, he holds onto. The one Wick cashes in, he grabs from the library.
[[folder:Loophole]]
* So in Chapter 2, John shoots Santino at the Continental. Aside from the drama of John being excommunicado... why the hell didn't John just physically drag Santino out of the building and shoot him outside? Winston is clearly okay with a little LoopholeAbuse and very much understands why John is as angry as he is, so this would seem to be the more obvious way to go.
** If he dragged Santino outside to do the deed, it might have become purely a High Table matter, at which point John would have been marked for death twice over before the day was out. However, killing him in the Continental put him under Winston's jurisdiction, at which point Winston could give Wick an actual grace period as well as advanced warning for his precise consequences. In a sense, there was no real out for John in this situation, so it was a choice between putting himself to Winston's judgment or the High Table's.
** Physically removing Santino from the hotel is just a slightly more complex way of killing him on Continental grounds, which is a massive no-no, even for someone as regarded as John. If you could get away with it by doing it in that manner, especially in a way that would be clearly visible to everyone else staying in the hotel, then whatever value the Continental's SacredHospitality once held is gone.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Winston and the Marker]]
* How does Winston giving John a marker at the end of Chapter 2 work? If John is excommunicado, doesn't that mean that he is cut off from all Continental "services", including, presumably, having his markers honored? Or alternatively, if the markers still work, then can't John give Winston the marker and force him to lift the excommunicado status?
** It's probably less of a technical marker and more of a promise. Winston cannot lift excommunicado - doing so just doesn't happen and would invalidate the Continental's SacredHospitality. The Marker is probably for a lesser favor, or even an excuse for another friend or Continental agent to shelter John if need be. "I'd kick him out, but he cashed in a marker, you know how it goes. Wink-wink."
** I would assume that the Markers aren't a Continental thing. Just something the Continental was involved in. Winston specifically says at one point about having to ask the High Table, and the High Table wouldn't allow what he was asking. The High Table apparently has more control over Markers than the Continental. It was also pointed out that Markers must be paid under any circumstances. The High Table wouldn't cancel a marker asking to murder a member of the High Table.
** Perhaps it's the marker Santino called in? Might help John explain to the High Table ''why'' he killed Santino, if anyone gives him the chance.
** The marker could also be blank, so that John can buy some help if he can find a willing benefactor.
** A third possibility is that it's a marker that Winston owed to Wick, and the reason for the grace period and lack of instant death.
** I think we're perhaps overthinking this a little. Winston presumably cannot overrule the excommunicado, but he ''can'' grant John a simple favour out of personal regard. He's probably not ''supposed'' to, but dash it all, he likes and sympathises with the guy, so despite everything is willing to grant him some small assistance. Besides which, doing so puts John into Winston's personal debt which, given John's skills, could be a very useful thing indeed for Winston.
** It has been revealed in the sequel that the marker was not Winston's. He was holding a marker for John that John would cash in. It was someone else's marker that owed John a favor.
** You misunderstand, I think. The one Winston gave him, he holds onto. The one Wick cashes in, he grabs from the library.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Changed line(s) 233 (click to see context) from:
* So forgive me as I’m a Brit so get most of my gun knowledge from, well, TVTropes! but I thought people make poor bulletproof shields. There were so many times in this film (especially at the Rome gig) where John shot mooks, usually in the head, with civilians right behind them. Willing suspension I know I know, but so many civilians dead but for a mook skull or kidney... I can’t imagine for a second, even if he hit the mook every time (THAT I can believe :) ) no overpenetration happened.
to:
* So forgive me as I’m a Brit so get most of my gun knowledge from, well, TVTropes! Wiki/TVTropes! but I thought people make poor bulletproof shields. There were so many times in this film (especially at the Rome gig) where John shot mooks, usually in the head, with civilians right behind them. Willing suspension I know I know, but so many civilians dead but for a mook skull or kidney... I can’t imagine for a second, even if he hit the mook every time (THAT I can believe :) ) no overpenetration happened.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to that guy who seemed to be Abram's NumberTwo, he's there for the call back scenes and said he already knew about the pencil story, I tried to look for him in the battle, did I miss him or was not there?
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to that guy who seemed to be Abram's NumberTwo, he's there for the call back scenes and said he already knew about the pencil story, but I tried to look don't I saw him again after he handed Abram the phone. I looked for him in the battle, did fight but I miss him or was not there? don't think I saw him. If anyone ''did'' please tell me, it's bugging me.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to be Abram's NumberTwo, he's there for the call back scenes and said he already knew about the pencil story. I don't think I saw him in the battle, I'm curious what happened to him.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to that guy who seemed to be Abram's NumberTwo, he's there for the call back scenes and said he already knew about the pencil story. story, I don't think I saw tried to look for him in the battle, I'm curious what happened to him. did I miss him or was not there?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to be Abram's MookLieutenant or Dragon, whatever one is the right hand man. He's there for the callback scenes and said he already knew about the pencil story. I don't think I saw him in the battle, I'm curious what happened to him.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to be Abram's MookLieutenant or Dragon, whatever one is the right hand man. He's NumberTwo, he's there for the callback call back scenes and said he already knew about the pencil story. I don't think I saw him in the battle, I'm curious what happened to him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to be Abram's MookLieutenant, the one who asked why they didn't just give the car back to John, and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to be Abram's MookLieutenant, MookLieutenant or Dragon, whatever one is the one who asked why they didn't just give right hand man. He's there for the car back to John, callback scenes and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him in the battle, I'm curious what happened to him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to be Abram's TheDragon, the one who asked why they didn't just give the car back to John, and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to be Abram's TheDragon, MookLieutenant, the one who asked why they didn't just give the car back to John, and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the MookLieutenant who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John, and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to be Abram's TheDragon, the MookLieutenant one who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John, and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John, and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy MookLieutenant who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John, and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John.John, and said he already knew about the pencil story. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 235,236 (click to see context) from:
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John. I know it's assumed he was in the fight, but I don't think I saw him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 238 (click to see context) from:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy who was talking to Abram, the guy who asked why they didn't just give the car back to John.
to:
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy who was talking to Abram, the guy who asked Abram why they didn't just give the car back to John.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[folder: The beginning]]
* Strange question, but does anybody know what happened to the guy who was talking to Abram, the guy who asked why they didn't just give the car back to John.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** I posed a similar question on the first movie's headscratcher page, and the people who answered justified it by bringing up hollowpoint rounds. This could equally apply here, particularly as you'll note that he only used the assualt rifle and shotgun (which would both be more likely to overpenetrate than handguns with hollowpoints) in the catacombs where there were no civilians involved.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Adding a folder
Added DiffLines:
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Overpenetration]]
* So forgive me as I’m a Brit so get most of my gun knowledge from, well, TVTropes! but I thought people make poor bulletproof shields. There were so many times in this film (especially at the Rome gig) where John shot mooks, usually in the head, with civilians right behind them. Willing suspension I know I know, but so many civilians dead but for a mook skull or kidney... I can’t imagine for a second, even if he hit the mook every time (THAT I can believe :) ) no overpenetration happened.
[[folder: Overpenetration]]
* So forgive me as I’m a Brit so get most of my gun knowledge from, well, TVTropes! but I thought people make poor bulletproof shields. There were so many times in this film (especially at the Rome gig) where John shot mooks, usually in the head, with civilians right behind them. Willing suspension I know I know, but so many civilians dead but for a mook skull or kidney... I can’t imagine for a second, even if he hit the mook every time (THAT I can believe :) ) no overpenetration happened.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Winston's Leniency-Pragmatism
Added DiffLines:
** There is also a pragmatic reason for the hour's head start. If Winston declared John excommunicado immediately, the ensuing carnage as assassins tried for the bounty could conceivably begin while Winston is right there within small arms range. This way, John will begin fending off assassins while at least an hour's travel away. Winston didn't get where he is today without thinking this sort of thing through.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** The wide shot right after they start shooting shows that there's no civilians backstopping their shots.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
** We know she's out of ammo (a) because she attacks John with a knife instead of just shooting him in the face as soon as the door opens, and (b) when John takes her gun he checks her clip and discards it (the clip, that is).
to:
** We know she's out of ammo (a) because she attacks John with a knife instead of just shooting him in the face as soon as the door opens, and (b) when John takes her gun he checks her clip the magazine and discards it (the clip, mag, that is).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* Why is Ares out of ammo when she confronts Wick? We only see her take a few shots at him, less than five. Plus, she has no backup clip?
to:
* Why is Ares out of ammo when she confronts Wick? We only see her take a few shots at him, less than five. Plus, she has no backup clip?doesn't have an extra mag or two?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** That would require coordinated effort from a large group of professional assassins. Santino has a large group of soldiers but most of them were killed by John in the catacombs (hence the open bounty). After that all of the groups hunting John were small team or individuals. Up until the third movie John hasn't fought anyone with the numbers and resources to pull off that kind of coordinated operation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
***Though seeing as again, Marcus's shot was just a warning shot to tip off John to Perkins' arrival, he could probably make a case to Winston if that could be traced back to him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Yes we do, by Chapter 3 if the person so much as have a hand on the step you can't shoot him even if you are in the street, sniper distance be damned.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 219 (click to see context) from:
** Actually, do we know for sure that you're forbidden to snipe ''into'' the Continental? Technically they only talk about business being done ''on'' the grounds of the hotel, which suggests you'd have to be physically present yourself. I guess sure, they won't approve of people attacking their guests from afar, but on the other hand a sniper may be hard to trace. As for John being defensive in his route to Santonio, fair enough. However, why didn't Viggo place a sniper detail all around the Red Circle club? That's only got a limited number of entrances and exit points. And I'd trust a pro sniper in this universe to be able to pick him out in a crowd, especially if the sniper has a spotter (or if there are any surviving/discrete ground level guards to work with him).
to:
** Actually, do we know for sure that you're forbidden to snipe ''into'' the Continental? Technically they only talk about business being done ''on'' the grounds of the hotel, which suggests you'd have to be physically present yourself. I guess sure, they won't approve of people attacking their guests from afar, but on the other hand a sniper may be hard to trace. trace (which may explain Marcus's lack of worry about repercussions when he sniped John's pillow to warn him about Miss Perkins breaking in). As for John being defensive in his route to Santonio, Santino, fair enough. However, why didn't Viggo place a sniper detail all around the Red Circle club? That's only got a limited number of entrances and exit points. And I'd trust a pro sniper in this universe to be able to pick him out in a crowd, especially if the sniper has a spotter (or if there are any surviving/discrete ground level guards to work with him).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Actually, do we know for sure that you're forbidden to snipe ''into'' the Continental? Technically they only talk about business being done ''on'' the grounds of the hotel, which suggests you'd have to be physically present yourself. I guess sure, they won't approve of people attacking their guests from afar, but on the other hand a sniper may be hard to trace. As for John being defensive in his route to Santonio, fair enough. However, why didn't Viggo place a sniper detail all around the Red Circle club? That's only got a limited number of entrances and exit points. And I'd trust a pro sniper in this universe to be able to pick him out in a crowd, especially if the sniper has a spotter (or if there are any surviving/discrete ground level guards to work with him).
