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[[folder:Rape]]
* Does the other "unthinkable evil" that creates a Horcrux consist of the act of rape? And did Voldemort commit this at any point? He can't love but he can probably lust. Although one thinks that he probably didn't even boink Bellatrix when she was clearly interested.
** It's possible, but we won't know until Rowling reveals it. Also, how do we know he didn't bone Bellatrix?
** We don't know he didn't, but it doesn't seem very likely. We see the reason why in the Spinner's End chapter; Voldemort trusts Snape and has particular assignments for him, but Bellatrix's jealousy over him becoming favoured by Voldemort is enough for her to question everything he does in a way that may have actually sometimes included attempts to thwart Snape so that he will fall in Voldemort's esteem. She clearly wants to be with Voldemort in a sexual capacity, but him doing that would compromise the hold he has over her because she would probably take it as a definite sign that she is the second in command, the favourite, or even the '''PARTNER''', and her efforts to assert herself over other Death Eaters would probably have become even more overt, to the point of getting in the way of things Voldemort wanted accomplished.
** Personally... I think its necrophilia, or something close to it.
** So Voldy hit postmortem dat with Myrtle, Bertha Jorkins, and his own father? Sweet.
** Might also be cannibalism, in which case calling his cronies Death Eaters is Voldemort's private sick joke.
** Y'all do realize that to create a Horcrux, you have to sever your soul in two, yank a chunk out of your body, and put it in a SoulJar, right? That's plenty evil enough.
** WordOfGod is that there's an additional evil act involved, the details of which are secret, and that when she told someone about it they wanted to throw up.
** Voldemort's restored body isn't exactly human. It's possible that its snake-like features extend under the robes, in which case he might ''not'' be equipped for this sort of thing anymore.
** Let's just file this under: "CantHaveSexEver"
** Fun fact: if Voldemort's a snake all the way down, he's better equipped than a normal guy. Snakes have [[{{Squick}} two penises.]] Although since he clearly has legs, his human parts only have to extend a 'little' higher up to have a normal human one...
** Bellatrix is married. To a Lestrange.
** So? From everything we've seen she cared more about Voldemort.
** Going back to an earlier bullet point, lust is not always needed to commit rape. Some people simply get off on having power over others. Some people get off on other people's pain. Some people merely get turned by stealing what belongs to someone else.
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** The book does explicitly say that Merope Gaunt is not attractive; she has "eyes that point in different directions" (thereby implying that she suffers from the effects of inbreeding that the Gaunt family has engaged in for decades, if not centuries), and the head of the orphanage confirms that she was not good-looking.

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* You're...kind of misrepresenting Harry's "lack of evidence", lets go over each book.
** "Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone". He suspects Snape because the man comes off as ObviouslyEvil. He dresses all in black, constantly has an unpleasant expression on his face, has a menacing demeanor, (seemingly) tried to kill Harry, and was overheard threatening Quirrell, in addition to trying to get a peek at the Stone's defenses in secret. Everything Snape did made him look suspicious, and Quirrell himself even agrees Snape "seems the part" due to swooping around "like an overgrown bat". No on WOULD suspect the seemingly meek and fearful Quirrell, as Quirrell himself points out.
** "Chamber of Secrets". If memory serves, Malfoy's father Lucius was already confirmed to have been one of Voldemort's supporters, Draco himself was the first person onscreen demonstrating Blood Prejudice AND openly supported killing off the Muggleborns, making himself look very suspicious. Hagrid has an...unhealthy obsession with dangerous creatures and has a history of trying to befriend them, which the Monster of Slytherin certainly is. Plus the "evidence" against Hagrid was shown to Harry by someone who has a LITTLE bit of a history successfully manipulating people. He sees Hagrid did indeed have a dangerous creature in the castle around the time a student died, so even though he knows the big guy wouldn't hurt anyway on purpose, a tragic accident due to naivety isn't out of the question. He never suspected Ginny because she never did anything to draw attention to herself regarding the Monster. As for suspecting himself...I can't comment on that because I unfortunately don't remember.
** "Prisoner of Azkaban". A...LITTLE bit more understandable? More than a little, actually. Harry was TOLD by a couple of wizards that Sirus was Voldemort's right hand man, and then overhears Mr and Mrs Weasley talking about how Sirus wants to kill Harry and return Voldemort to power and THEN overhears two ReasonableAuthorityFigures, one of his best friends, and the Minister of Magic himself talking about how Sirius was James and Lily's best friend and betrayed them to Voldemort. He had every reason in the world to suspect Sirius, as EVERYONE ELSE in the wizarding world did, and none at all to suspect Pettigrew, who as far as everyone knows, is dead.
** "Goblet of Fire". I don't remember who Harry suspected and you didn't list any names...but if we're talking about Snape or Karkaroff (Both of whom were Death Eaters) Bagman (Who was on trial for being one) or Malfoy again (Chamber of Secrets), Harry actually had pretty good reason for his suspicions toward them and not Fake!Moody who had even DUMBLEDORE fooled, and everyone else to boot.
** "Half-Blood Prince". Draco Malfoy has spent the past five openly supporting Voldemort, spouting Pureblood mania, and wishing death on Muggles and Muggleborns, by this point anything he does is suspicious, ESPECIALLY if he's alone, as that means he has no witnesses. In each of these books, Harry was suspicious of someone who did everything possible to make themselves look suspicious, and the one who was actually guilty was someone who, in all fairness to Harry, no one else suspected either.


** As for Harry defending himself, the answer is easy, have him drink Veritaserum and then tell what happened, that's plain self defense according to the laws of Magic World

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** As for Harry defending himself, the answer is easy, have him drink Veritaserum and then tell what happened, that's plain self defense according to the laws of Magic WorldWorld.
*** Veritaserum is not reliable. There are too many ways to counteract or otherwise neutralise the potion's effects, and all it does is make the drinker tell the truth ''as they percieve it'' if it is used correctly. ''That's'' why the Ministry does not use it during trials, and most certainly why Harry can't use it to plea self-defence.

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**As for Harry defending himself, the answer is easy, have him drink Veritaserum and then tell what happened, that's plain self defense according to the laws of Magic World

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** ^Unlikely, the DE specifically mention that they are forbidden to strike the finishing blow on Dumbledore, it must be Draco who kills him. Draco probably came close to being killed for failing the task, but Voldemort accepted that it was not a complete failure since he did disarm and snuggle the back up necessary for Snape to kill dumby.


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** I think it is canon that it WAS just a petty and cruel plan, and that the main (if not whole) purpose of sending Draco was to punish Lucius. Anything else, like Draco succedding would be a bonus, but Voldemort would have bet against Draco ten times out of ten. He has absolutely no real expectations from Draco, and absolutely nothing to lose from sending slytehrins students recklessly try to kill dumbledore, who is already on DEFCON 1 anyway. If he wants to have something done in Hogwarts, Snape is the one he'll expect to pull through, not the 16 year old git who is more likely to embarass himself than bring even the bare minimum of results (which is spelled out between Snape and Dumbledore).

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** From what we've seen, the Ministry appears to have been even less professional and institutionalized in the past. Dumbledore mentions in BOOK 5 that it is highly unusual anyway to have a formal hearing for an underage use of magic. In the second book, Harry got off with only a letter, and Fudge simply waved it in his 3rd year. Also, the ministry teams handling a murder would probably be very different from the one handling underage magic, and most underage magic would probably be very minor and would easily fly under the radar. In other words, simple administrative lags, or lack of drive could be enough to explain why no one made the connection between an act of underage magic detected somewhere where a triple homicide happened. Especially since times were peaceful at the times (in Britain). Probably Riddle got a letter telling him to take care next time and a slap on the wrist. It would actually be very easy to explain his presence, in case someone did interrogate him: "Poor charming orphan, abandoned by his parents, and utterly brillant prefect student Tom Riddle wanted to see if the tom Riddle sr of the village could have been his father. Too bad the well-known lunatic, stark-ravingly mad, and prejudiced wizard who confessed everything in copious details, in possession of the wand used for the murders, and with a clearly identified motive decided to strike at this very moment. Poor boy, persecuted by fate *sniff*".Besides, I fail to imagine the Ministry expanding the efforts to investigate further a clear-cut case with an orgy of evidence, when the victims were only some muggles in the country side anyway.

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** Malfoy was in charge and the leader for this mission. He failed to organize and lead effectively enough the death eaters he had at his disposal (partly because they are sociopathic morons who lost sight of the goal at the slightest provocation, and not a properly trained professional strike team, but part of the blame falls on him still), even though the opposition consisted in 6 teenagers, with 3 having never been in a real battle before, and who were unable to disarm people 6 months ago, he had the element of surprise, outnumbered them 2 to one at least, and the field advantage. He should have had DE positionned at every exit to surround them, stunned everyone but harry (to avoid him breaking the prophecy when he falls) the very moment the prophecy was taken from the shelf, before they had any time to react, extorted the prophecy from Harry against the lives of his friends, then disapparated to give it to Voldemort while letting the others clean up the defenceless kids. Instead, he revealed himself and had all the DE in front of him (which allowed them to react and then run away) and mocked him, wasting several minutes which would be crucial later as that gave the order the time to arrive,let them talk and plan between themsleves because those idiots were too busy laughing their ass off, was unable to contain/avoid Bellatrix' outburst (giving Harry a clear measure of how much getting the prophecy intact was critical to them and how good a card the little ball in his hand was). Then, while I admit they managed to catch them eventually, he took too long. He did a terrible job at trying to catch the kids as quickly as possible (he could have laid many traps around the first room before Harry even arrived just in case). All in all, he was supposed to be a field leader and a badass tactician, but nothing was accomplished that was not due to the massive difference in skills and numbers (i.e. his actual input was 0) and he failed. And worst than that, he got caught, proving to everyone that Lucius really is not all that even though he is supposed to be one of the favored DE. Besides, it is the same in most projects in the Industry. You have a manager who is supposed to lead and be responsible for the completion of the project. if the project goes fubar or fails, he is the first to take the blame.

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** Because it is magic? Objectively and from what we know, there is no reason why a spell made to create cursed gaping stab wounds SHOULD have a more complex process than one designed to levitate people by their ankle. And from what we've seen, the only requirement for many spells is to know the incantation. This is what is asked of them during OWL. And Harry mistook two spells (I think it was the enlarging spell instead of the one which changes colors) simply because he mixed up the incantations, hinting that spells do not need special flourish to work. There are of course spells which have higer requirements (AK requires 'great magic power',vanishing spells need focus, etc and patronus is supposedly difficult for example), but on the whole, knowing the incantation appear to be enough for most combat spells. Stupefy and impedimenta are combat spells which seemed easy enough to learn for a reasonably talented wizard like Harry. When one says someone is a powerful wizard, it often translates to "has experimented/read more and knows more magic than most".


** Harry is the worst person to give this information too. Even aassuming that he would not let his emotions get the better of him and spill it out in CAPSLOCK at a point, Harry is the only one out of every mentionned characters whose mind is directly linked to Voldemort. He had never gotten the hang of occlumency and so would not be able to prevent Voldemort from getting this info out of his mind. While it is true that it is implied that only Snape had the mad skills to protect his mind from the dark lord, at least other people are protected by the simple fact that they are usually very far away from Voldemort, while the link ensures that Harry is always vulnerable to mind intrusions regardless of the distance involved.




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* I think that this was the whole point. That Harry became so emotionnaly close to the prince (metaphorically) at this stage, that he would rely on an unknown spell simply because it was written "for your ennemy", even though it should be obvious to anyone that this was extremely stupid and reckless. That this spell could actually be dark, lethal magic, or that it might have been useless, was unfathomable to Harry; the prince had become something of a reliable big brother to him, and (in his mind) he was neither evil/dark nor useless. This incident, like the various lines in the book about how the HBP was a way better teacher than Snape, etc, serve to set up the dramatic irony of Harry relying and liking the HBP but loathing and hating Snape.

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* From what we've seen, it seems any spell specifically designed to bring serious harm, maim, injure or kill someone, and which needs a specific counterspell known or usable only to few people (if any) is classified as dark. Fred & George's products are not designed to harm anyone seriously, and while the effects can linger, they can easily be removed. Healing someone from the sectumsempra, or any cursed wounds actually appears to be next to impossible unless you are an excellent wizard with knowledge of dark magic like Snape, or George would have gotten his ear back. Therefore, "dabbling in the dark arts and studying it" means trying your hardest to master and create spells allowing you to seriously harm someone else while making sure that it cannot be undone, explaining why it is frowned upon by most people. If you add the fact some part of it is about going into what we might call the 'natural laws', like breaking up a soul using cold-blooded murder, it makes even more sense that anyone seriously trying to expand the field would be looked at with suspicion. Of course, it could be used for good, but it would be akin to researching cloning and/or gene modifications by experimenting on humans or developping extensively chemical weapons , which most people take a dim view on. Just saying "think of the potential" does not necessarily make it more acceptable (usually).

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* ^. Seconded soooo much. Using guns agains another human being is actually hard, mentally and physically. Also, what most people here seem to forget is that the DE are using hit & runs tactics against unprepared and unsuspecting civilians, using means the latter would not even imagine. They easily drop by unnanouced and without warning, anywhere, even some place the muggle would consider impossible to attack, proceed to crucio and AK everyone at random. Then once they have a good laugh, they teleport away without leaving any means to track them before anyone has time to calm down and summon authorities. We have trouble defending ourselves against muggle school shooters or terrorists. Now imagine those guys being able to be invisible, teleport, torture/kill with a flick of the wrist at will. No way in hell any unprepared, panicking and shocked muggle (who most likely never fought with a gun, assuming of course that he does have one, which is a tall order already) is going to be able to kill a DE anytime soon, unless they drank gallons of felix felicis. Perhaps, if the Ministry was not oblviating the witness and maintaining the masquerade they would be able to wise up, learn and find counters, or at least be an in alert state. But a side effect of the masquerade is that it ensures that the muggles STAY as unprepared as possible to face unknown magic-wielding terrorists.

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*** ^The potion was explicitely stated to be impossible to be scooped up. So using a bucket, a glass or a cup to empty the tank was impossible. It was also impossible to change its nature into something else, hence Dumbledolde could not use the cup to empty the tank and change it into wine before drinking for example.


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** Phoenixes are not an panacea. Their tears have great healing powers, but they are never stated to be an antidote to every poisons on the face of the earth. This potion looks like an invention of the greatest dark lord ever seen in the HP universe, it would make sense that even phoenix tears would not work. Also remember that Dumbledore drank the potion because he had deduced that was how the defense system worked. But he did not know exactly what was the effects of the potion. We know for example that polyjuice has either adverse or no effects when not used by a human. From what Dumbledore knew, it was possible that the potion might be even more effective, or even lethal to anyone not human. What if the potion was set up to straight up kill anyone not human? or turn it into an inferi automatically? possibilities are endless. We know that house elves can drink it. Dumbledore and Harry don't. Also, the way Dumby speaks at the end makes me think that he thought he could handle it on his own, and might have underestimated Voldemort a bit, Harry was just insurance just in case. So he took a calculated risk using all the informatio he had, not necessarily unreasonable to me. Also, Dumbledore using the boat makes it ambiguous to inferis if it's voldemort (and thus not someone to attack) or not. A phoenix flying over the lake probably would have gotten the inferis to run berserk.

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** From what we saw, if Harry had not been there, then Dumbledore would have been unable to finish the potion, and unable to escape. But as he would also have been unable to get to the water on his own, it means that morst likely, he would have lied there until Voldemort would have taken a stroll around the cave. Hence perhaps, why Voldemort did not feel the need to equip an alarm, any fool trying to steal an horcruxe would have failed and then lied there indefinitely until Voldemort decided to come. Another possiility is that Voldemort implemented alarms designed to ring IF AND ONLY IF something went wrong in his defenses. But technically, both Harry and Dumbledore followed the expected process quite rigorously. They went through the entrance, used the blood to open the door, etc, and as such, the defense system did not register that this was not voldemort. Dumbledore mentionned that indeed, at least until they reached the island, the entire defense system was unable to pick up that they were not Voldemort. It's possible that if another wizard had tried to explode his way down the cave, swim through the lake instead of using the boat, he would have been alerted. Voldemort thinking that absolutely nobody would be able to imagine he had horcruxes might be pushing it. But Voldemort imagining that nobody would be resourceful enough to not only know that he had an horcruxe, but also track it down, and then identify the correct process to go through the defense might be easier to swallow.

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** Plus, maybe he was afraid of Dumbledore choking if he tried shooting water down his throat, especially since he's more than a bit out of sorts due to the potion he just drank.

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