History Headscratchers / DragonBallCharacters

* Should we feel sorry for Chi Chi throughout the anime? Isn't it a bit unfair that she has to spend years alone? She has her sons, but she dies as an elderly woman. She gets to see Goku again, but she will be old as heck.

* Should we feel sorry for Chi Chi throughout the anime? Isn't it a bit unfair that she has to spend years alone? She has her sons, but she dies as a manless old woman. She gets to see Goku again, but she will be an old woman.

* Should we feel sorry for Chi Chi throughout the anime? Isn't it a bit unfair that she has to spend years being alone? Yeah, she has her sons, but she dies as a manless old woman. Not a good marriage.

** I'm more wierded out that he's hitting on his old student's WIFE. Have Roshi no shame?

* No one thinks the things Bulma did was messed up? She was drooling over Zarbon. Her boyfriend of 10 or whatever years just got blown up and she's crushing on a villain. To make things worse, she later sleeps with the man who had the same boyfriend killed. Don't get me wrong, I like the Vegeta and Bulma romance, but once you sit down and think about it, it sounds pretty messed up.

* No one thinks the things Bulma did was messed up? She was drooling over Zarbon. For goodness sakes, her boyfriend of 10-15 years just got killed and she was crushing on a villain. To make things worse, she later sleeps with the man who murdered the boyfriend. Don't get me wrong, I like the Vegeta and Bulma romance, but once you sit down and think about it, it seems pretty messed up.

* No one is bothered that Bulma was drooling over Zorbon? For goodness sakes, her boyfriend just got killed. I rolled my eyes at that scene. To make things worse, she later sleeps with the man who murdered the boyfriend. I like the Vegeta and Bulma romance, but once you sit down and think about it, it seems pretty messed up.

* No one is bothered that Bulma was drooling over Zorbon? For goodness sakes, her boyfriend just got killed. To make things worse, she later sleeps with the man who murdered the boyfriend. When you sit down and think about it, it sounds pretty messed up.

**** Who cares what GT says? Discontinuity, anyone?

** It may be a little of both. They may have not beeen nice at one point or another, but at least they knew that when the world was at stake, it was no time for games. Plus, Vegeta pretty much let Nappa kill them in the Saiyan saga. I doubt they'd be so ready to forgive him after that.

* So how come fans like to single out Chi-Chi for her "abusive" parenting and call her the worst parent of DBZ (someone on this website tried to put her as an example for AbusiveParents, but it got deleted) [[DoubleStandard but Bardock, Vegeta Sr. and Vegeta (Cell Saga) get less to no criticism?]] Granted she's annoying and overprotective and irrational sometimes, but out of the four I mentioned, she did the least damage??
** The series actually shows Chi-Chi being a parent. Bardock isn't shown with his children other than a quick look at the hospital. He might have been the world's best dad for all we know. Vegeta Sr. seemed to love his son the only 'bad' thing he did was give Vegeta to Frieza but Frieza would have done something crazy like blown up the planet if he'd been refused. Vegeta does get crap for being a bad parent. And he's probably a better parent than he gets credit for. He might not hug his son or tell him he loves him but it's obvious from the way Trunks acts towards his father that the boy knows he's loved. Chi-Chi is loud and obnoxious and the only thing she is is a mom.
** Umm that's what I meant and I agree with you 100%. I wasn't referring how the show portrays them (the show is way better than how the fandom does it), I was talking about the ''fandom'' does. All I'm trying to say that while I no longer have a problem with Bardock, Vegeta's Dad, and Vegeta getting a free pass on their mishaps as parents, I'm just saying that the fandom is pretty hypocritical and unfair to Chi-Chi (and even Goku). I mean Vegeta at least tried to be a good father to Trunks in the Buu Saga (yes I know he gets criticized, but it's not as much), but fans still demonize and make Chi-Chi out to be an outright abusive and terrible mother (by even writing her in the AbusiveParents column of this website), just because she's obnoxious and annoying and can be overprotective (in the anime at least where her traits are exaggerated, she's way more chill in the japanese manga), but she at least mellowed out, but fans still ignore her CharacterDevelopment. Sorry if I am annoying you.

** Umm that's what I meant and I agree with you 100%. I wasn't referring how the show portrays them (the show is way better than how fanon does it), I was talking about the ''fandom'' does. Chi-Chi may be loud and obnoxious, but she doesn't even come close to being an abusive mother, but yet fans demonize her and make her out to be a terrible mother and an outright hateful person ,just because the English/Funi version of the show decided to turn her into an unlikable character, when she's actually chill in the japanese manga and japanese anime. While I can totally agree with Vegeta because he ''at least'' got better, fans basically ignore Chi-Chi getting better and still see her as a tyrant and a bad mother.

** 12-19(pre-Buu timeskip): Living at home in boonies with psycho mother and no contact with any of closest friends

** Umm that's what I meant and I agree with you 100%. She may be loud and obnoxious, but she doesn't even come close to being an abusive mother, but yet fans make her out to be, just because the English/Funi version of the show decided to turn her into an unlikable character, when she's actually chill in the japanese manga and japanese anime. While fans have little to no problem with neglectful parents or outright abusive parents, but an overprotective mother? [[{{SarcasmMode}} God forbid, let's alert the authorities, this is an irredeemable crime!!!]] Bear in mind I don't hate Vegeta either.

** Umm that's what I meant and I agree with you 100%. She may be loud and obnoxious, but she doesn't even come close to being an abusive mother, but yet fans make her out to be, just because the English/Funi version of the show decided to turn her into an unlikable character, when she's actually chill in the japanese manga and japanese anime. While fans have little to no problem with neglectful parents or outright abusive parents, but an overprotective mother? [[{{SarcasmMode}} God forbid, let's alert the authorities, this is an irredeemable crime!!!]]

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** Umm that's what I meant and I agree with you 100%. She may be loud and obnoxious, but she doesn't even come close to being an abusive mother, but yet fans make her out to be, just because the English/Funi version of the show decided to turn her into an unlikable character, when she's actually chill in the japanese manga and japanese anime. While fans have little to no problem with neglectful parents or outright abusive parents, but an overprotective mother? [[{{SarcasmMode God forbid, let's alert the authorities, this is an irredeemable crime!!!]]

!! Bulma

!! Goku

!! Gohan

!! Chi-Chi

!! Yamcha

!! Goten & Trunks

!! Vegeta

!! Others/Uncategorized

* So how come fans like to single out Chi-Chi for her "abusive" parenting and call her the worst parent of DBZ (someone on this website tried to put her as an example for AbusiveParents, but it got deleted) [[DoubleStandard but Bardock, Vegeta Sr. and Vegeta (Cell Saga) get less to no criticism?]] Granted she's annoying and overprotective and irrational sometimes, but out of the four I mentioned, she did the least damage??

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* So here is a quick and easy way for them to hide/transport the dragonballs on both Earth and Namek... capsule them. Put them in one of Bulma's capsule vehicles and shrink them. Why all the fuss of trying to hide the things when you can store the entire lot in your pocket? Also, whilst we have no way to be sure, wouldn't hiding the things in a capsule dampen the Electromagnetic signal they give off? would have been at least WORTH an attempt when you are trying to hide them from the Red Ribbon Army or Frieza's Trade Organization for example.
** It's not really worth the effort. Frieza was the last villian searching for the Dragonballs and there is no reason to take precautions against guys like Pillaf at all.

* In what way is Kami a guardian? He never does anything to guard the Earth. The only time he has ever shown trying to defend the Earth is when he went up agaisnt Piccolo during the 23rd budokai. All other times all he does is just sit on his lookout doing nothing, I wouldn't call him a "guardian". And sure he created the Dragon Balls but they could have been used just as much for evil as good. If he was a smart guardian, he would have just got rid of the time limit, removed the effect of them flying off every time they're used and kept them on his lookout for whenever something went wrong on Earth.
** It's possible that it's some combination of the exact nature of the cosmos wasn't fully formed early on. We know Kami means God, perhaps Kami is technically his title and not his name but when it was just Dragonball they didn't think to give him two names. Kinda like Kai is is a title, perhaps he's supposed to be named Kami Kai though I find the former more likely and that Dende is supposed to be called Kami Dende or Dende Kami now but by the time he showed up he knew his pay grade. It was damn unlikely Vegeta was going to call that punk kid from Namek God Dende. While it eventually turned out to be false I don't think King Kai was lying about planet Vegeta having a guardian that summoned a meteor. I think that was the truth until he decided Frieza doing it was a better idea. Each planet gets a Kami and a set of Dragonballs. Each galaxy gets a Kai, each universe a Supreme Kai (assuming Dragonball has a functioning Multiverse.
** I don't think he guards in the physical sense so much as the spiritual sense; he ''is'' the god of the planet[[note]] beneath King Kai who is god of the galactic quadrant, Grand Kai who is god of the galaxy, and Supreme Kai who is god of the universe, and used to be god of the northern quadrant of the universe until Buu absorbed the other four quadrant gods and the universal god. Divinity in DBZ is very much like a pyramid scheme.[[/note]], remember, and has been shown dealing with the passage to the afterlife and negotiating of where in the afterlife people go. Plus, the threats kinda exceeded his ability to handle after Piccolo, and he DID provide consistent aid, training, and sanctuary for his Champions after that.
*** Plus he did try to stop Piccolo when he appeared at the tournament.
** Technically, each Kaioh rules a quadrant of the universe, and each Kaiohshin rules the same quadrant AND the afterlife. It's AllThereInTheManual. But yeah, Dragon Ball deities are funny like that.
** Before he was surpassed by Goku, with the exception of King Piccolo and perhaps Popo (given his ability to later spar two Super Saiyans), Kami was the strongest being on Earth for hundreds of years and thus perfectly capable of defending it. Its also shown that Kami has been drastically weakened by age so logically he should have been able to fight pre-Kaioken Goku is his prime. As for the Kais, they not only have a similar problem of being surpassed by new threats, but seem to have been the victim of great stagnation in their society. Every featured Kai has been shown to either be overconfident or lazy enough to believe they don't need to train; both King, Grand and Supreme Kai seem to spend their entire lives relaxing or clowning about - when was last time we have seen them practice? It's one of the reasons they're all so startled when they meet a Super Saiyan for the first time.
*** There is another alternative that no one seems to have considered... that Kami is a coward. When King Piccolo was released and started murdering martial artists, Kami had four very clear courses of action. 1) Seek out Piccolo and immediately kill his spawn (childs play for a warrior as powerful as him) so they can't get in his way, then use the Evil Containment wave to capture him. We know King Piccolo has no counter for this technique and we know he is so afraid of it that it strickens him with paralysis. 2) If option 1 fails, just confront Piccolo and fight him to the death. No matter who wins both will die. Every single one of the people he is pledged to protect is now saved. 3) Circumvent options 1 and 2 and just commit suicide in the comfort - resulting in the exact same result as 2. 4) Sit in your near-impregnable aerial fortress as a small child gets nearly beaten to death twice, watch as many innocent men and women are murdered and sit by and do nothing as King Piccolo conquers the planet and declares all law null and void. Options 1 - 3 are what a Hero pledged to guard the Earth would do. Option 4 is what Yajirobe or Oolong would do. And if you think I'm being too hard on Kami remember... this is the '''second''' time he has chosen option 4. In every flashback we have seen Kind Piccolo's original conquest of Earth, in which we saw global terror and Mutaito and the Hermits fight a losing battle to save the Earth, have we heard of a single thing Kami ever did? he is one of the ''two strongest beings on Earth''. Options 2 - 3 are fully open to him at this point and arguably even option 1. Either Mutaito developed the Containment Wave himself or he learnt it from another Master; in both cases Kami would have to have learnt it during their lifetimes in order for him to be able to throw it against Piccolo Jr - assuming it wasn't Kami that taught Mutaito which would officially make Kami a dick as well as a coward.
**** By the time Piccolo Sr. had been unsealed, Kami had grown cynical in his opinion of humanity and life on Earth, which is why he originally planned to leave the Dragon Balls destroyed an unusable. It was probably not only this cynicism, but also all his other duties as Guardian of the Earth (whatever those might entail) that caused him to not take action. He is by no means a coward, given he willingly fused with Piccolo and allowed Piccolo to remain the conscious persona, thus ceasing his own existence.
**** Option 1 wasn't available, since Kami was only aware of the Mafuba technique after Mutaito (Roshi's master) created and used it to seal Piccolo Sr. This was explicitly stated in the story. Killing himself would remove any possibility of making up for the actions of Piccolo Sr. - in case you've forgotten, he created the Dragon Balls to do just that. Besides, he'd need to have a successor of some sort in place if he ever did something as drastic as killing himself, and there wasn't anyone who fit the bill until Goku came along (given that being pure-hearted and fairly powerful are requirements).
** Kami obviously doesn't have the physical ability to actually "guard" the Earth, but he helps in what ways he can - such as when he helped Goku to go see King Kai, and escorted him back to Earth, and allowing the Z Fighters to train on his lookout.

* How come the citizens of the DBZ world never wonder how they keep dying and coming back to life? Apart from the Buu Saga, their memories of being killed were never explicitly wiped out, so why don't they ever wonder who brought them back to life and how?
** The Buu saga is the only one where anyone besides the Z fighters themselves are brought back to life, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
*** The Cell saga? They wished everyone in that saga to be brought back to life.
*** They probably thought it was a [[NoOntologicalInertia side effect]] of Hercule destroying Cell in that case.

* Supreme Kai always refers to the Z fighters as "Mere Mortals"... but isn't he himself a Mortal?
** Yeah he is mortal in the sense that he can be killed, but not in the sense that he doesn't age and would never die of natural causes...he probably has lived for so long that for all intents and purposes he considered himself immortal.
** Immortality in Dragon Ball has always been pretty consistant. It allows the user eternal life but not invincibility. For example Master Roshi was stated to have drunk from the Fountain of Youth which froze his age as an old man - but he is still very much vulnerable to being killed by outside sources. Garlic Junior wished for immortality and was indeed capable of regeneration on a semi-Buu like scale, but he was far from indestructible. The only reason they had to trap him in the Dead Zone is that they were completely hindered by their low power levels - a Super Saiyan would have been able to vapourize Garlic. The Kai's and Buu also work on the exact same principles - immunity to age but not immunity to death.
*** Didn't Garlic recover from a hole inside himself? Granted, it was the anime filler, but I assume that's on equal terms of "canon" as the Dead Zone movie.
**** Yes he did; but that proves that he ''can'' be killed it's just that like Cell and Buu you need to destroy every single bit of him before he regenerates. Like the Troper above points out that whilst Garlic seemed strong he was initially defeated by the pre-Raditz Z Fighters - Super Saiyan Goku would have done a lot more than blow a small hole in Garlic's chest.
** Keep in mind Kami's name means god, and look at how he compares to the rest of the universe. He's below Yama, who is below King/North Kai, who is below Grand Kai, who is below Supreme Kai. It's less about mortality and immortality and more about the Z fighters not being gods.

* If Shenron can't do anything that's beyond Kami's abilities, why didn't Kami just resurrect everybody instead of having to search for the Dragon Balls every time? Hell, why didn't he render Goku (or failing that, HIMSELF) immortal?
** So A) nobody ever wishes themselves immortal in DBZ, so we don't even know if the dragon can actually grant that wish. Piccolo grants himself youth, so maybe eternal youth is within the dragon's capabilities, but not preventing you from death in battle. But, then again, Roshi seems to live forever (he might have drunk some magic water at some point), too, so it is not as useful as you'd think. B) Just because something is within Kami's power, doesn't mean he has the skills to do it. Remember, it is magic!
*** At one point it's stated that Roshi has drunk from the Fountain of Youth AND at one time he had access to the legendary Phoenix which was apparently capable of granting immortality(This was his original reward for Goku before he decided on giving him the Flying Nimbus)
** Garlic Jr actually does wish for immortality. Which just means the heroes shove him into The Dead Zone for all eternity. Besides, most in the [=DBZverse=]even think about immortality less in terms of "Will never die" and more "Unkillable". Once you're strong enough to kick God's ass, living forever might seem to hold less allure.
*** [[CanonDiscontinuity Garlic Jr]]. Was this just in the movie or in the anime filler? Either way, not strictly canon. Regardless, I think the original query is just outside the dragon's powers -- and Kami cannot grant all sorts of wishes, no more than you can play video games on your laptop's battery. Kami is the source of the Dragon's power, that doesn't mean he has all the dragon's skills.
*** Also, Kami probably wouldn't have done it, because, outside the Dragon Balls, he doesn't like to specifically interfere with Earth. Remember, the Namek Dragon barely ever used his resurrection abilities because the Nameks saw death as natural, and it wasn't until someone started a genocidal campaign against them that they considered using it. As for rendering Goku immortal, at the end of Dragon Ball Goku specifically says he doesn't want Kami to do anything like that to him, and, as for himself... well, perhaps that's breaking the rules.
**** Yeah, I'd say for the Guardian of Earth, making someone immortal would be a very dangerous and unguardianly thing to do. However, like you mentioned, Goku had the opportunity to become the guardian at one point, which he turned down.
** Rou-Dai-Kaioushin, the most ancient and wise of all of the DB-verse's Gods considers the Dragon Balls the equivalent of cosmic cheat codes, so presumably they allow a God's strength to be used to fuel abilities that the Gods themselves do not inherently possess.
** I always figured it was something like the Dragon Balls were a rechargeable reflection of Kami's maximum potential. Like a young Kami in his prime using the full extent of his power would be able to do something like resurrect everyone on Earth or grant immortality to a person, but at the cost of his own life. Whereas the Dragon Balls are capable of doing the same with the only consequence being a 1 year recharging period.

* Yamcha has eaten senzu beans at least once in the series. How come he still has scars on his face? After all, these very senzu beans are capable of healing broken necks (Gohan) and arms (Vegeta).
** Because the scar tissue is old and no longer technically a "wound". If he ate the bean when he got the injury in the first place, it'd be a different story. Same basic reason the beans don't cause saiyans to regenerate lost tails.
*** Then why does Future Trunks tell Future Gohan (in their side story) that if only they had senzu they could heal his missing arm?
**** Because Future Trunks is somewhat of an idiot?
**** Then Future Gohan must be an idiot too, because he doesn't disagree.
**** The first answer is the correct one - Future Gohan's injury was mere hours old at this point. Yamcha had these scars from when he was a very young man. As a side point it actually has a basis in real world medicine - fresh wounds are far easier to repair then a semi-healed one.
**** It's not that it would regrow a missing arm; it's that they wouldn't have had to amputate it if they had had any senzu beans left.
**** Speaking of which, why the hell didn't Bulma just build him a replacement arm?
***** You really have to wonder how effective and/or useful that would have been considering the cyborgs that took his arm (not to mention Gohan himself) could've probably rendered it akin to torn tissue paper with little effort. He'd have it for five minutes, max, before it gets scrapped. Sure, it works for a guy like Tao, but Alter-Future Gohan and the Androids...whole other league.
****** Very good points about how useless a ''Tao'' style bionic arm would be in combat but two things occur to me. 1) Given Bulma's extensive technical abiity (shes smart enough to build a time machine) why hasn't she yet managed to copy a ''Gero'' style arm? Gohan would only need a basic copy in order to help him block attacks. 2) Even in an post-apocalyptic hellhole, an arm has other functions besides fighting. General things like eating, writing, cleaning... all of which he must logically be doing in between his battles.
** Because they thought it was [[HandicappedBadass cooler if Gohan had one arm even though, logically, Bulma could've given him an arm that wouldn't have slowed him down.]]
** In a similar vein to the Yamcha example above, during the run of GT Gohan dons a pair of glasses. This completely ''baffles'' me in a universe in which Dende, Majin Buu and the beans exist that Gohan should require any form of corrective eyewear. Unless he has taken a leaf out of the Tenth Doctor's book and has decided to wear a pair of ''brainy specs,'' the only reasonable conclusion I can see is that beyond healing fresh injuries restoring Ki, the Senzu are actually quite overrated - unless it's yet another GT plot hole of course.
*** Perhaps he felt that it helped him blend in? Also, the senzu seems to be able to heal injuries and such, but deteriorated eyesight is a natural, slow thing. Perhaps if he kept eating Senzus every day, he'd continue to have perfect eyesight.
*** He first dons the glasses at the end of DBZ and I always assumed he put them on just to look brainy, not because he actually needs it.
*** As a teenager, Gohan had eagle eyes- he was able to see that Hercule was holding a dog from thousands of feet in the air. Either the glasses are completely absurd, or as he aged, his eyesight drifted closer to that of a normal human: still extremely sharp by human standards, but deteriorating considerably from his ability to spot a puppy from a mile away.

* Chao Tzu and Goku are both children in Dragon Ball. In DBZ Chao Tzu is still a child when Goku has gone on to have a son.
** Dude's either a midget or some magical being that ages slowly. Note that his close friend Tien didn't seem to age much, either, and neither of them exactly match the standard human phenotype- Chao Tzu looks like a clown, and Tien's a Triclops.
** Chiaotzu is a Chinese mythical being, I forget what it's called but it's like a zombie crossed with a vampire. There's also a Dragon Ball feature length adventure that implies he's a weird king with Tien as his bodyguard, but [[CanonDiscontinuity it's not quite canon.]] "Not the standard human phenotype" doesn't count for much in the Dragon Ball world, where aliens, animals, and mythical beasts rarely have any problems living, conversing, and breeding with humans.
*** Doesn't imply; him being an Emperor plays a noticable part of the movie.
*** The mythical being you're thinking of is a Jiang Shi, aka Hopping Vampire.

* It's occurred to a lot of people to wonder how [=ChiChi=] survived having sex with Goku - but how the heck did ''Bulma'' survive having sex with ''Vegeta?'' Unlike [=ChiChi=] she's an ordinary human, and even though Vegeta isn't as strong as Goku he also isn't as good at controlling his strength. ManOfSteelWomanOfKleenex promptly comes to mind.
** Well, he may not have good emotional control, but he still must have total control over his own body to become such a fighter. He just chooses to act the way he does.

* Why the heck are Trunks and Goten so stupidly powerful? Goten especially. He achieves Super Saiyan at, what? Age 8? Younger? At that age, Goku, a full-blooded Saiyan, mind you, was running from bees and finding himself an even match with Yamcha.
** It was stated somewhere that Saiyan/Human hybrids are abnormally powerful, for example, Gohan. It could also be the fact that when they Goku and Vegeta did their wives, they were both already Super Saiyans, giving them the "trait" to access Super Saiyan as easily as they could.
*** You just said "for example Gohan" but Goku wasn't Super Saiyan when he fathered Gohan, remember?
**** I believe that troper was referring to how insanely powerful Gohan was at such a young age, compared to his father or Piccolo. Also consider that Chi-chi wasn't a bad fighter in her own right, either.

* Shouldn't Vegeta be the king of all Saiyans instead of prince of all Saiyans considering the state of the fomer king? or is the Saiyan throne not hereditary?
** What Saiyans? Goku and Gohan? Come on...'
*** Even worse than that. Assuming all the Sayians on the planet were pure-bloodied Sayians, that means the only other Sayain Vegeta could "rule" over is...Goku. The others (Gohan, Goten, and Trunks) are half-Sayians.
** Vegeta is still prince for the same reason most "princess" without parents in fiction are still "princesses": because they like the title better.
** Vegeta was born a prince, but he would have to be crowned in an official ceremony to be the King. Not exactly easy when your monarchy and the planet it is meant to rule is space dust.
** Vegeta could declare himself King of the Saiyans at any time he wanted. Ceremony doesn't mean much when A) you would be the king of 4-8 people total, and B) you could kill any of those four without too much effort(Broly excluded from this point, and assuming it takes place before the saiyan saga to cover Goku). The thing is, even Vegeta, as vain as he was, could see what a pointless, petty, childish, immature act that would be. It would be akin to a kid sitting down in the sandbox at the park and declaring himself king of it, demanding tribute from the other kids who just shake their heads and go play on the swing set. He would get no end of mocking for it from the higher ups in Frieza's army, something he was well aware of. He was a prince by birth, had grown up as a prince when that still meant something, so he was comfortable using that title.

* Why do the humans refuse to try and keep up with the Saiyans? After just a few weeks training with King Kai they are stronger than Goku was after a year of the same training. Can you imagine what would have happened if they'd thought like Vegeta and said screw thousands of years of tradition and trained with technology?
** Yamcha did try the gravity chamber and it almost killed him. Also, I wouldn't say they became stronger than Goku, just stronger than the Ginyu Force, and they still had some difficulty with that. Goku took the Ginyu Force down so easily he was surprised.
*** That's because Yamcha tried the gravity chamber at the same setting Vegeta was using (one that nearly crippled ''him'' when he first tried it), rather than starting from scratch.
*** Exactly he started at 100 or 300 times gravity instead of ten or twenty. If he'd gone through the steps it would have worked. And they were clearly stronger than Goku. Goku after training with King Kai could barely stand up to Vegeta. Several beatings and healings later Vegeta could not beat Recoom. The three of them beat four of the Ginyu Force without much difficulty. So clearly each of them was stronger then Vegeta had been on earth. And that was after a couple of weeks of training with King Kai not over a year. Humans couldn't keep up because they didn't try. Gravity training works.
**** Problem is; it always comes down to the same thing - humans can't transform. Then human Z Fighters were able to keep up with Goku and Vegeta during the Saiyan and Namek saga's but once they learnt Super Saiyan (for reference it multiplies their base power by 50) Yamcha, Krillin and Tien were never going to be able to fight equally. Theoretically the only two ways they could have potentially corrected this imbalance would be to A) train their bodies to sustain a Kaioken x50; with the problem that the Kaioken techique doesn't last as long as Super Saiyan or B) copy Master Roshi's ability to double in size; which whilst no doubt effective (it endowed Roshi the abilty to destroy the moon) it would have the same disadvantages of a Super Saiyan Grade 3 - namely it would reduce your speed dramatically.
***** The humans weren't even close in the Saiyan and Namek arcs to Goku and Vegeta, and there's no way they could even keep up with their base forms, let alone transformations. Goku on Namek had a power level of 3,000,000 and it is implied he went on to raise his base power level above Freeza's 120,000,000 by the Boo saga. The humans had power levels below 2,000 in the Saiyan saga, they had '''absolutely no chance''' at keeping up, no matter what they could have tried.
** Humans vs Ginyu force was filler.
*** True, but there is at least something to be said about humans that is not filler. Consider this: after Goku beats Piccolo Daimao, he goes to train under Kami. After a whole three years of intense training, and then another five years where he must have at least not gone down in power, he has enough strength to... get easily splatted into a wall by Radish. Don't forget that Radish was said by Nappa to be about as strong as a Saibaman (poor guy). Now to the humans: when Bulma measures their power levels, we know they are far weaker than Goku or Piccolo. Even then, a single year (or even less) of training under Kami is enough to make them stronger than the Saibamen. I know it had to be done for the sake of the story, but it makes Goku's advancements seem a bit slow in perspective, and it makes the humans look pretty capable overall. Thus, we can only wonder just how strong they did get under King Kai. Tenshinhan is indeed able to somewhat keep Imperfect Cell at bay, after all.
**** It appears that the humans can in fact train with better results than even the Saiyans on a normal to normal basis, but what kills their chances is that they just don't have anything equivalent to Super Saiyan modes to ascend to or the remarkable healing ability.
**** The first case isn't just Kami's training, and not the same training Goku got. They got more advanced training, and did their own training afterwards. Even then, they developed at a pace they never had before, it was entirely plot driven. As was Tenshinhan holding down Semi-Perfect Cell, it was a clear example of StrongAsTheyNeedToBe seeing as one kick from Android 17 earlier was enough to take him out.
***** While it's definitely powers as the plot demands the same change the fact that Tien had to have improved a great deal very quickly. 17 might have taken him out with one kick but he's implied to be stronger than 18 and 18 basically one shotted SSJ Vegeta once she was done playing around with him. I'm not implying that Tien was on par with SSJ Vegeta only that it wouldn't shock me in the least to find out that he was on par with Ginyu or even 1st Form Frieza.
**** I think this is a major discrepancy. Also consider the idea that after fusing with Namek's strongest fighter, Piccolo only had enough strength to keep Frieza's 2nd form at bay, yet after fusing with Kami, who's something like 40 times weaker than Nail (assuming power levels aren't completely bullshit), he becomes stronger than a Super Saiyan. Sometimes the relative strengths of characters are just messed up.
**** Maybe that was because of the Fusion multiplier.
**** I think this deserves some elaboration. Humans can’t match Saiyans in power simply due to genetics. Starting with the latter’s so called “Zenkai Power”. Basically, every time a Saiyan recovers from a serious beating they get a large power up. Both, Goku and Vegeta, exploit this trait during the Namek Arc. Second, all the transformations in Super Saiyan, Full Power, [=SSJ2=], [=SSJ3=] and whatnot. And third, the fact that human/saiyan hybrids are especially powerful. In the long run, Humans will always lose no matter the training.The whole thing with Ten Shin Han and Cell is not StrongAsTheyNeedToBe but rather WeakButSkilled. You see, techniques can dramatically increase the user’s “Battle Power”. This was very present in the early chapters and is the main reason Goku was able to take on Vegeta; the Kaioh Ken gives him a considerable powerboost at the cost of his body wearing faster and the Genki-Dama simply uses energy from another source. Finally, back then when The Elder Namekian read Krillin’s mind he identified Piccolo as the son of Kattatsu, a member of the dragon clan, and a prodigious with amazing potential…that got lowered severely when he split in two. This means Piccolo’s fusion with Kami goes beyond fusing with some guy to get more power; it’s basically becoming a complete being once again.
***** None of which changes the simple fact that other than on failed experiment by Yamcha the humans in particular but charachters in general have seen the results of training under extreme gravity or with a magical god putting ten ton donuts on your arms and yet they still decide to train under waterfalls. Given just how quickly the main cast got over the Saiyan and Frieza arcs (Raditz was supposedly by far the weakest named charachter in Frieza's army. By the time they reach Namek Krillan and Gohan are able to give Guldo, presumably in the top ten most powerful beings in the universe a good run for his money. Maybe the lack of transformations really is that crippling that they truly couldn't keep up but the point is they clearly aren't trying.
***** Gurdo was the weakest member of the team, you know; to the point Krillin wondered what he was doing there. The key word here is time, you see. Even if the humans trained with the same methods they would not develop their strength as fast as the Saiyans. Look at Piccolo, for example, who managed to surpass the power of the Super Saiyan for a short time by fusing with Kami only to quickly fall behind when new transformation stages were revealed. Last but not least, remember that Saiyans have greater longevity than humans.
** All the rationalizations aside, the humans were facing the SortingAlgorithmOfEvil in full force. The next BigBad always has to be a lethal challenge to the top fighters so secondary or tertiary fighters are useless in the final fight. This could have been remedied by the author if there was something worth doing beyond fighting the latest demi-god to get an anti-Saiyan rager. Even when the baddies have mooks and goons that lower-level humans can handle, it still makes more sense for Goku, Vegeta, or one of their kids to just mow them down rather than engage a prolonged fight that puts a human fighter in danger.

* Has anyone asked how Krillin and Android 18 had a child yet? I mean... she's an android... is Marron supposed to be fully human despite being birthed by a robot?
** This is a translation error. Androids 17 and 18 are not androids, they are cyborgs. As in regular people with augmentations, like Cyber Frieza. Marron would be 100% human as the daughter of two humans. This translation error is because the Japanese word "jinzouningen" is closer to artificial human than to android. It's the same reason Cell is technically Android 21 even though he's not a robot.
** Goku did ask Krillin about it in one episode.

* How exactly do ''ki'' attacks injure/kill? Granted, sometimes we see people get blown to bits or annihilated utterly, but when Piccolo intercepted that shot from Nappa to protect Gohan, his body looked mostly intact, yet he died. Same for when Gohan got blasted point-blank by Majin Buu; he was obviously bloodied, and quite close to death, but there was nothing to show/tell exactly what kind of damage was done to his body. There are other examples, but it's been 2+ years since I've actually watched DBZ, so I can't remember them off-hand.
** Perhaps, rather than being a really hot ball of PureEnergy, a ki attack is more like a HardLight cannonball? Or a combination of those. The damage would be internal rather than really noticeable injuries for the stronger guys.
** Ether that or he absorbed the energy as heat across his body and it cooked him.
** That's what I figured myself. We see smoke coming from Piccolo after the attack, so while he physically looks...well...somewhat beaten up, his insides are just roasted meat, hence he dies.
** It's also the only way to make sense of someone blocking ''energy'' with his body. Otherwise, part of the beam would have reached Gohan passing between Piccolo's legs.

* Did Vegeta and Bulma actually got married? They are treated as husband and wife late in the series, and in GT at least with its dubious canonicity Bulma calls herself the Wife of the Prince of the Saiyajin; but I know that doesn't mean they actually did the whole process.
** I think we're supposed to assume they did the whole process during the three-year time skip before the Androids, or the seven-year time skip before Buu. You could ask the same of Krillin and 18. All we know is that they're apparently raising their daughter together, and apparently live together even though we don't see them do the actual wedding.
*** I believe in real life there's a concept called common-law marriage, where if two romantic partners live together for a long enough time they can be considered legally married in some jurisdictions. Maybe while parenting Trunks for seven years Bulma and Vegeta became married this way along the road?
** If Vegeta and Bulma actually got married instead of just going common-law, then it would have been in the post-Cell pre-Buu time skip. It's generally implied that their relationship started as a purely physical thing and they only ever really bonded over their kid, and even that was only really a thing because Vegeta spent so much time with future-Trunks during the Cell Saga.

* Where do Saiyanjin get psychic powers? I've seen a couple of fics in English mention them, but I'm pretty sure that in the Latin Dub (that's very close to the original) they don't have them. Did the English Dub gave the Saiyajin Psychic Powers or where they cut in Latin America?
** I seem to recall Goku catching up to speed telepathically when he first arrives on Namek.
** Before that, when in the hospital, after being beaten by Vegeta, he tries to train by levitating a glass of water.

* Yamcha's defeatism bugs me. In the original Dragon Ball and early Z series he loved fighting to the extent he would devote months to constant training and in Anime filler started a fight with an entire baseball team for fun. Come the end of Z, despite his previous joy of fighting reaching near Saiyan levels, he had completely given up. Now the accepted fan theory is that he became genre savvy enough to realize he could never surpass the Super Saiyan's. 1) This never stopped Krillin from enjoying himself at the 25th World Martial Arts tournament, despite knowing he didn't stand a chance against Goku and Vegeta ''and'' despite Krillin never really having the same eagerness to fight Yamcha did. Neither did this stop Tien from training day and night to the point he could avoid Buu's Human Extinction Attack. 2) In real life how many martial artists are up to the standard of Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris? 5% maybe? doesn't stop the other 95% entering tournaments for competition, fun and general fitness does it? So here we have a situation where Yamcha, the strongest human in the world barring Tien and Krillin, who would almost certainly have won every single one of those Tournaments where Hercule was the only Z-Fighter competing - pathetically fizzling out for no adequate reason whatsoever.
** I couldn't say why he's lazy when alive, but when Buu kills him and he goes to the afterlife, he starts training intently again, to the point of amazing even Krillin.
** It bug me as well because even if Yamcha no longer wanted to fight super powered villains after his close brush with death during the Android sagas, he could still train and at least win the Budokai Tenkaichi tournaments barring no unusually powerful opponent appearing where he has no chance at winning (he's had bad luck at the early tournaments with Roshi posing as Jackie Chun, Tien, and Kami posing as "Hero" ). Yamcha could have been the "Champion of Earth" and not Mr Satan if he stayed competing. Yamcha is easily stronger than Mr Satan who has no grasp of Ki control and attacks. So his defeatist attitude really does suck.
*** And pray tell what would he achieve by becoming "champion of the earth"? Wealth? Fame? A city with his name? And when the next superpowered being comes to threaten the earth and the people call him for help he'll look down and whisper "no"? A lot of people can enjoy martial arts without having to enter a tournament or even sparring, you know. Yamcha is not looking to become the strongest like Goku and Vegeta nor does his life revolve around martial arts like Tenshinhan and Chaoz. He’s just a normal guy with other aspirations like Krillin. He’s already very powerful and doesn’t have to prove anything to anybody; moreover he’s more than willing to jump to action despite his limitations if it is for a good cause. Hardly the definition of “defeatist”.
**** For one, wealth. Yamcha once cancelled a date with Bulma for being broke. Or just competing for the fun of it since he did love the martial arts. only reason I would see him not bothering if he believed he had too much of an unfair advantage against the "normal" competitors. He also could inspire the people of Earth just as Mr Satan did only he knows the real heroes very well. While things worked out for everyone else, Yamcha has nothing to show for all his training as TheEveryman.
***** Admitedly its possible that that was before he became a successful career in sports but it still makes no sense for Yamcha to give up fighting considering how much he loved it. Its said in Dragon Ball he's always wanted to win the World Martial Arts Tournament and we're shown many times that Yamcha greatly enjoys just competing and training, so it makes little sense for him to give up fighting or the Martial Arts tournaments.
** That always used to bother me too until I has a stroke of FridgeBrilliance and worked out the exact moment that he would have come to that decision - when he was defeated by Android 19. He had the same three year warning as everyone else, was trained by the world's greatest martial arts masters Roshi and Kami, was there at every major battle the Z Fighters have ever had, was pumped, determined... and was effortlessly defeated without even a punch thrown. Now he '''Might''' have been able to get over that setback '''If''' mere hours later he wasn't forced to sit back and watch as his best friend and rival Tien was able to hold off Semi-Perfect Cell with the Tri-Beam; a fighter infinitesimally stronger than the minor Androids he had lost so easily to beforehand. That, combined with all his other crippling defeats, was finally enough to tip him over the edge and hang up his trademarked orange suit. With that knowledge in hand, Yamcha's words to Goku just prior to the Cell Games "I will come but I won't fight" take on a ''whole'' new meaning.
*** Tenshinhan wasn't even Yamcha's ''friend'', let alone best friend. Tenshinhan's only friend is Chiaotzu. Also, the two were '''never''' rivals, they only had one battle against each other and that was their first meeting. Also, I hope you mean Semi-Perfect Cell is the "fighter infinitesimally stronger than the minor Androids", because Tenshinhan was obviously much weaker than the Androids, like Yamcha.
**** While Tenshinan and Yamcha aren't best friends, they are shown to be friends in the series and yeah they were rivals. Anyway Tenshinan was the strongest of the Earthlings for most of the series and Neo Tri-beam is one of(or the) strongest attack in the series, and seeing the strongest of them only stall Semi-Perfect with his strongest attack(using up his lifeforce in the process) must've been disheartening to the other Human fighters. This would explain why he would give up helping fight on the Front lines but does not in anyway explain why Yamcha gave up Martial Arts.
**** And who said he gave up martial arts? For all we see of Yamcha during his free time he could be still training at his own pace, taking part in some street fighting or even giving out self-defense classes. As for the Tenkaichi Budokai, remember the entire island where the last tournament in Dragon Ball took place was completely devastated by Piccolo's last attack; God knows how many years passed before the damage could be repaired. Then came the saiyajins, the whole being dead thing, then the androids, then Cell, etc. By the time they could participate again Yamcha figured it wasn't worth it. Sure, Krillin decided to take part but he was lucky to face against some poor sap and as soon as he went to the front lines he was deemed trash by Dabura and turned to stone. Last but not least, after the defeat of Buu, Mr. Satan had basically rigged the whole tournament by having Fat Buu participate, beat up everybody and "lose" against him.
**** Had Yamcha had remained competing and been "Champion Of Earth" instead of Mr. Satan, there would be know rigging of the tournament like that. the tournament itself had become meaningless and just a show stage for Mr. Satan. It only makes me wish more somebody stronger than Mr Satan competed against him.

* It has always been my opinion that Yamcha only cared about fighting while he was still extremely shy and withdrawn, after dating Bulma his interest in training waned and then after breaking up he threw himself right back into it, but it was never quite the same for him, the old passion was gone and so he only trained when the situation called for it. I think Yamcha is more concerned with the quest for booty than training nowadays.

* Okay I know DBZ isn't exactly known for its romance (wow that's an understatement) but seriously, all the couples (I'm only counting the first generation, Gohan and Videl don't count, mostly because while they had development I found them unbelievably boring) on this show are either completely incompatible or just have no real emotion connection with each other. (excluding Bulma and Vegeta, who are similar enough in personality and seem to genuinely enjoy the SlapSlapKiss thing they have going on enough to actually seem compatible). I mean Goku married [=ChiChi=] because he felt guilty and proposed, and seems to make every effort to not interact with her and leaves her for long periods of time without seeming to miss her or regret leaving her at all. Krillen and Android 18 are just....weird, there was no real development building up to their relationship (I know, I know, maybe I'm asking too much but even B/V had a whole mini plot going in both anime and manga, it wasn't long or detailed but it was there at least) it was just like one day he said 'i love you' and she was like 'sure why not.'
** For what it's worth, Toriyama has stated that he doesn't know how to write romance, which is part of the reasons for the long timeskips, with the kids' existence starting as shorthand for "yes, their parents are still together."
** I attribute Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship to this: They DO genuinely care about each other, really. It's just that sometimes their marriage lends itself to the RuleOfFunny. It's more fun to see her flip out than take so much of it in stride (filler or not, I thought SHE was going to go Super Saiyan when she got lip from Krillin's first girlfriend). And I don't believe she forced him, he went along willingly (that's what I got from the dub). You really think a guy that can level mountains would stay with a woman that berates him so much if he didn't love her? Or that she would stay with a slow-witted bruiser if she didn't find something charming and loveable? As for Krillin...that guy gets so much abuse, so little credit, and doesn't get to be shown as powerful as he should be. I take #18 as Karma rewarding the guy. Yeah, it would've been interesting to see just HOW that relationship blossomed, but like you said, it's not what the show's about.
** Correction: Vegeta and Bulma's mini-arc was pure filler in the anime. In the manga the only thing suggesting an attraction was Bulma telling him to behave himself while he stayed at her house. The anime added in filler because the relationship basically came out of nowhere because Toriyama needed another [=SSJ=] and [[PairtheSpares Bulma was the only girl left.]]
** The correction is partially right. While Bulma was picked because she was the only woman of the group left to bare the next [=SSJ=], Toriyama has stated in an interview that the filler had accurately summarized his idea on how the two started to become involved (mostly on Bulma's part before her break up with Yamcha). It wasn't in the manga because, as a troper stated earlier, Toriyama didn't think he could write anything romantic and thus left it out.
** Also, Krillin and 18 did have development, at least on a one-sided basis. Krillin crushed on her because of a combination of her whimsical kiss on the cheek and his slow realization that she and her brother were barely any more evil than he was as a kid. Acting on this all, when he could've suspended her with the controller Bulma built and destroyed her, he instead broke the controller, tried to urge her to run, and then fought by her side to fend Cell off even if it was in vain. After Gohan forced Cell to cough her up at the Cell Games (which has been debated about here as well), Krillin went and tended to her side for the duration of the battle. In the aftermath up on the lookout, she realized his feelings for her and got upset for a cup of coffee, but after watching how, when the gang summoned Shenron and had no ideas for the last wish, Krillin worked to spend it on her and her brother's behalf, she came to accept his kindness to a decent enough degree before leaving (although I'm not sure how much of this sentence was or wasn't filler, so take it as you may).
** So you say there is '''no''' romantic developments in the same sentence as mentioning a couple that did have romantic development? Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean you can say there is no development. Gohan/Videl isn't the only couple to get development, either.

* Why didn't Baba get any strong fighters from the past to help out agaisnt the Saiyans/Androids/Buu? I guess Buu might of been too strong for anyone in otherworld, and POSSIBLY the Androids/Cell, but surely there was someone who had millions of years to train and was strong enough to take down Vegeta and Nappa.
** Picon (Pikon?) was the strongest of their lot and was explicitly outclassed by Goku. It wouldn't have helped.
*** Pikhan was outclassed by Goku ''after the Cell Games''. He would have been far and away the stronger back in the Saiyan Saga.
** Pikhan was filler. Also, why makes you think Baba *could* get Pikhan? There's no reason to think that Baba can get anyone from anywhere in the galaxy, and there might well have never been anyone on Earth strong enough to fight Vegeta.
** Baba can't just go and get some dead warrior to fix the living problems, it's the live people who should take care of their own business, besides you only get one day to return from the afterlife and if those warriors hadn't already used theirs up then probably they wouldn't want to use it on that.
*** This unfortunately raises a massive plothole. Baba has an army that consists of four warriors permanently at her base - Spike the Devil Man, Fangs the vampire, the Invisible man and a Mummy. Now, these guys are incredibly weak by even King Piccolo's standards, explaining why we don't see them again. But... Spike the Devil Man has access to the Devilmite Beam, an attack capable of literally making the heart ''explode'' of any living fighter that doesn't have a pure heart. This technique works immediately and is capable of fully working even if there is the ''faintest trace of evil.'' This makes it one of the most powerful and devastating anti-personnel techniques in the entire Dragon Ball universe. Spike could one-shot ''any'' of the Saiyan Warriors, both Piccolo's, Frieza, the Ginyu Force, Baby, Omega Shenron and even a good percentage of the Z-Warriors. Remember how Goku was immune to the Devilmite Beam because of his pure heart? well Super Saiyan amplifies a Saiyans aggressive instincts making them cold and vicious - essentially meaning Spike could even kill Super Saiyan 4 Goku, Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, Super Saiyan 2 Gohan and even Vegito. The only exceptions would be Cell and Buu due to their regenerative capabilites. Why have we never seen this guy again? why didn't Baba or any of her superiors in Otherworld order her to send Spike into battle alongside the Z Warriors? and why hasn't anyone tried to copy this technique given that it is essentially the most powerful non-destructive force in the history of the universe?
**** If it's capable of working if there is even the faintest trace of evil, [[EarthShatteringKaboom what would happen if it was used on someone that ridiculously evil?]]
*** We don't really see MUCH evidence that going Super Saiyan makes you cold, evil or particularly aggressive. Goku becomes Super Saiyan and tries as hard as he can, to the point of giving him some energy so he can escape the dying world, to spare the man who'd just killed his best friend. That's not cold, it's barely aggressive. Vegeta doesn't change, nor does Trunks. Level 2 makes Gohan more aggressive but as we've seen from Gohan vs Raditz, Vegeta and Cell I'd say the common theme here is "DON'T HURT MY DADDY". I've always felt that Super Saiyan's rage was always a huge missed opportunity. Unlike Tailed Naruto or Masked Ichigo where even friends need to be on notice.
**** Because Super Saiyan is the master form. The "dangerous to friend and foe alike" is covered by the Oozaru form.
*** I wouldn't call it a plothole per se, just a case of ForgottenPhlebotinum that sort of makes sense. Not sure one could assume that technique could be copied either. Funnily enough, I think this technique is played for laughs in one of the Dragon Ball Z games(BT 3??) in where the move deals great damage under certain circumstances.
*** I agree with the above troper, and I'd also like to point out that ''"these guys are incredibly weak by even King Piccolo's standards"''. That technique didn't seem particularly fast/instantaneous to me, and I'm sure everyone near the level of King Piccolo would be fully able to avoid it.
*** It is definitely a forgotten plebotinum. According the the dragonball wiki, which is pretty accurate down to the gun random mooks use, BT3 has a "What If?" story putting him against both Freeza and King Cooler. He wins easily thanks to his devil beam. He would have a decent chance of fighting of most of the villains in the series, assuming they don't kill him first. And when was the last time anyone killed anyone in DBZ before they could use their ultimate attack?
** Hell, why didn't Baba warn the Z-Fighters of every villain!? She clearly can see into the future, as seen at the end of the original series, so why didn't she look into the future, find the villain's weakpoint ("GRAB HIS TAIL! Like when you were a child!"), and tell them? Would've saved a lot of trouble! ("When you get to Namek, there will be a creature who is more powerful than Vegeta, and will kill your best friend!")
*** She stated just before the battle against the Saiyans that she wasn't able to predict the outcome of the fight. In the Fridge Brilliance section there's an interesting hint that all the time travel from Trunks and Cell could have messed up with her ability.

* Why can't Piccolo hatch demon warriors like Demon King Piccolo could? I mean, they're both standard Namekians, and Piccolo is a clone of his dad, after all. Come to think of it, why didn't Nail just hatch himself an army once Frieza started killing stuff? Come to think of it again, why didn't Kami try that once he got wind of Vegeta and Nappa? Before you say "too old", Demon King Piccolo made Tambourine and Cymbal before wishing himself back to youth. And even if they were fairly weak, an army would've been nice to have against the saiyans.
** Good news for you: the live action movie combines Picollo Daimaoh with Picollo Jr., thus giving "Picollo" the ability to summon monsters.
** '''A)''' IIRC, generating a minion of useful strength literally took years off King Piccolo's life. Piccolo Jr. most likely knew this and preferred to rely on his own power.\\
'''B)''' As we saw when Piccolo and Krillin used the Tri-form against Nappa, and he swatted them, it probably wouldn't have helped much.
** The way I see it, that's just not Piccolo's style under any situation, and we all saw what came of the ''last'' guy made out of Kami, so I can see him being apprehensive about the idea.
** And Yajirobe, who is no match for Demon King Piccolo, was '''''literally''''' eating Demon Warriors for breakfast.
** He could have at least used them against those weird little plant man minons that Nappa planted, so as to even the playing field...
*** Each of the Saibamen was as strong as Raditz was. He didn't want to risk any kids being killed instantly- he was starting to have a Main/HeelFaceTurn, so he wouldn't want to ''give birth'' literally for no reason but to condemn the kids to death.
*** Incidentally, this probably explains where Cell got the ability to produce offspring.

* Why has no one ever called Goku on his selfish bullshit? He'd disappear for - literally - years at a time, without a word to anyone. He decides it's time to come back how and EVERYONE (Except Vegeta) is all "OMG GOKU! YAYZ!"
** Because it's not selfish most of the time. See here:
-->Splits from the group after Pilaf.
---->Reason: Roshi offered to let him live there; Goku said he would after the Dragon Balls were collected.
-->Leaves after 21st Tournament
---->To find his grandpa's Dragon Ball, and meets with everyone again over the next couple days anyway
-->Leaves after Baba's tournament
---->Roshi orders him to train on his own all over the world.
-->Leaves after the 22nd Tournament
---->To get vengeance for Krillin's death.
-->Stays on Kami's Lookout after King Piccolo
---->Deal to restore the Dragon Balls; everyone dies anyway if he doesn't.
-->Leaves after 23rd Tournament
---->Has a wife.
-->Leaves after Raditz.
---->Dead. And everyone else is dead if he doesn't jump through some Otherworld hoops.
-->Says no to coming back on Porunga's wish
---->In the middle of teleportation training, and learning to control the violent Super Saiyan form.
-->Leaves after Cell
---->Dead, can't be wished back. Note that even without his goodbye speech, Shenron had already said "Nope, can't do it" so it was a moot point.
** Only at the end of Z does he just run off for selfish reason, and we don't get to see the reactions to him coming back.
** I was referring more to his DBZ absences. He didn't owe anybody anything in Dragon Ball and was free to come and go as he chose. The ones I was referring to:
*** After Frieza: Chose not to come back, spends two more years in space. Doesn't tell anyone why.
**** I think the reason given for this was that he was learning how to control his newfound Super Saiyan powers out of fear that he would accidentally transform and hurt someone.
**** No, he never mentioned that. Goku's stated reason in canon is that he's learning teleportation from the Yadarat, and it took him a while year to learn it.
** After Cell: Shenron couldn't bring him back for the same reason he couldn't simply yank him back after Frieza: He can't directly effect someone stronger than him, against his will (The same reason he couldn't simply zap Nappa and Vegeta before they got to Earth). With his wife and son listening in, he straight up states he doesn't want to come back. Note that he's an even bigger JerkAss in the manga. At least in the anime he gives some bullshit "everything bad that's happened is directly my fault and if I'm gone, those things won't happen" excuse. In the Manga? "All the strong guys are dead or related to me. Earth is boring, I'm going exploring."
*** Don't make stuff up. In the manga he uses the same "everything bad that's happened is directly my fault and if I'm gone, those things won't happen" excuse, and this is '''AFTER''' Shenlong has said he can't bring Goku back '''not because''' he can't yank him back but because the new Dragon Balls that Dende made can't bring back anyone who has already been resurrected. Goku ''can't'' come back either way you cut it. And in fact, Goku is '''never''' revived by the Dragon Balls for the rest of the series. Read the post above you again. And read the manga too while you're at it.
**** They could easily have used the Earth Dragon Balls to teleport to New Namek and use their Dragon Balls to wish back Goku. Fact is, Goku didn't come back because he didn't want to. Which makes him a self-centred dick abandoning his family. Although you could argue that saving the universe earns him some leeway, but still.
** After Buu - runs off from his wife and TWO sons (one of which he'd just found out about) to go train the Uub, Buu's reincarnation.
*** "After Buu"? "Just found out about"? He stayed with his family for ten years after Buu's death before running off to train Uub.
**** There's also nothing that indicated he didn't make trips to visit his family during the training period of Uub (and GT doesn't exist in canon, so don't bring it up) it's not like it'd take him more than 5 seconds with his teleportation.
**** In fact, he explicitly mentions to Pan that he will visit (in episode 276/291 in the anime). He says this in the manga too, btw.
** Also, this is part of the charm of Chichi/Milk's character: she's the only one who sees Goku as a selfish asshole who constantly runs away from his home and family to fight.
*** 'Charm'? There's a word I've never heard in connection to Chi-Chi.
*** Try "lethal fascination."
** Would YOU want to be Chichi's husband?
*** [[@/MacPhisto Oh yeah]]. [[FamilyGuy I would wreck that chick]].
** Also, if you point out out Goku ''loves'' a good fight (not marital), and loves a good rival even better, being a Saiyan, Goku just felt compelled to train Uub. Yes. That's right. The word is ''train''. Not so selfish when you look at it from that point of view is it? I mean, only a guy like Goku would want to help a boy with a vast potential control his powers so that he can be a hero like him. And that's not say he didn't have his rematch with Vegeta, say hello to his many friends and visit and spend time with his family.
*** Given everyone's reaction when he reappeared in GT, I'd say he didn't visit, or at least he didn't very often. And, frankly, it's not that training Uub did all that much good, in the long run.
**** Who cares what GT says? Discontinuity, anyone?
***** FanonDiscontinuity (and Fanon) are an individual thing, not a "you have to agree" thing. I see it as, Animeverse leads to GT, Mangaverse leads to Online. And I prefer the Animeverse.
***** Not quite true. GT relies on Z more so than Z leads to GT, although in some dubs you see GT foreshadowing from Z (like Elder Kai's opposition to using the dragon balls). "Animeverse" is supposed to be the "Mangaverse" with more depth (ie: it relies on it).
**** Besides, the cast never keep in contact with each other between arcs.
**** Well, before the final tournament Bulma points that Goku is the only one who doesn't show at reunions.
** Okay, just so that I can include a bit more on the whole not coming back at the end of the Cell Games: Yeah, okay, Shenlong couldn't bring him back, because he was wished back to life once before. However, Goku ''could've'' been selfless this time and simply said, "Okay! Use the Namekian dragonballs! King Kai and I know where it is, and we'll help you get there!" He was being a total ass to his son and wife. If I were Gohan, I would've turned into [=SSJ2=] and asked Shenlong to teleport me to whereever Goku was and beat the crap out of him.
*** You won't find many people defending Goku's actions, particularly not as they pertain to his obligations as a father and husband. He did have a solid point though about how he seems to be the source of everything that goes wrong and depending on how you want to look at it he's not wrong. Raditz came to pick him up, Vegeta and Nappa came to get the Dragonballs they heard about from Raditz, his friends went to Namek to revive friends who wouldn't have died if not for Vegeta and Nappa. Which attracts Frieza. The andriods may still have been an issue. Without a distraction from Goku however Vegeta would have ended Buu pretty quickly. So while he's more easily forgiven than Vegeta for his part in the world being in peril all the time, he's not wrong.
**** Actually when you think about it Piccolo is far more responsible for the early events of the series than Goku because of the fact it was his fault Vegeta and Nappa were summoned due to having shot his mouth off about the Dragonballs in the range of Raditz's Scouter. Given how neither of them particularly seemed to care that much about him there is a good chance they would have just ignored the Earth and continued on their way. The Androids and Cell were still entirely Goku's fault though as they are a direct consequence of him annihilating the Red Ribbon Army years beforehand and there is really no question the Z Fighters would have been eliminated. Without the Saiyan threat Goku would have had no reason to have sought out King Kai's training as Piccolo would have been his only serious enemy - which means no Kaioken, no Spirit Bomb and ultimately no Super Saiyan. So yeah; Goku is absolutely correct in saying that his presence does indeed endanger the planet.
***** The androids were specifically modeled to be stronger than Goku when Gero last observed him in his battle with Vegeta. If his final battle had been vs Raditz instead (Remember he jumped from three hundred to over 9000 in this gap) the androids presumably would have been MUCH MUCH weaker. Weak enough that the power of team work would have still been viable like it was against Nappa.
***** Consider, also, the fact that the Androids would have attacked whether Goku was dead or not. Goku being alive in the main timeline was what kept it from being utterly destroyed like in Future Trunks' world. If Goku's enemies are going to attack, they're not going to care that he's dead. The proof is right there. They'll do it anyway just to hurt his family and friends, or to have fun with the world he loved so much. Honestly, it's better if he sticks around so that when his old enemies ''do'' attack, he's there to stop them again. Goku ''should'' know this since his being alive was what saved them all from the androids. His remaining dead actually endangers the group more than if he was still alive. Another example (even though it's non-canon) is the Broly: Second Coming movie. One of Goku's old enemies attacked, and he didn't care that Goku was dead. He nearly killed everyone anyway.
** The real question is "how come ''Vegeta'' hasn't been called out on his selfish bullshit? Arguably, he's done worse than Goku and Krillin combined and is [[DracoInLeatherPants treated like]] [[JerkSue a saint for it.]] He caused all the sagas to happen anyway and his selfishness has gotten the world put in danger many times and he had no remorse for his actions!

* Vegeta is awful forgiving awful fast. I know becoming the most powerful being on the presumably in the universe can put you in a mighty good mood but honestly after at everything Gohan and Krillian put him through both intentionally and unintentionally there is no way they'd still be alive when Goku arrives two years later if I'm Vegeta. I kill Piccolo and Gohan out right because they are threats expecially if I let my gaurd down. I don't believe Goku's alive so I'm not worried about him showing up. Meanwhile I either train up to Super Saiyan which I now know is possible OR I install myself as the the new emperor of Earth. Sure it ends badly for me when Goku shows up and curb stomps me but no way is the kid who screwed me out of immortality getting a pass.
** At the end of the Namek saga, Piccolo was pretty much his equal. "Just kill Piccolo" just wasn't going to happen. Not to mention Vegeta's purpose in life was destroying Frieza and becoming the strongest Saiyan ever. With Goku swiping both goals out from under him, his focus shifted to defeating/surpassing Goku. Ruling Earth never crossed his mind. And even if it did: Again - Piccolo (who, at this point, still had his trump card of re-merging with Kami)
*** We don't have anyway of knowing if Kami would have consented. Considering he didn't use that solution with Vegeta and Nappa, a decision that directly led to his death, and how hesitant he was to step into the android situation it's likely that King Vegeta is not a sufficient threat for him to accept that.
*** Piccolo was nowhere near Vegeta's level. He didn't get much of a chance to show off after his final Namek-era power-up (assuming that being resurrected didn't give him yet another one), but Vegeta was able to flat out outrun(fly) an attack that Piccolo only saw as a glint of light that instantly caused people/islands behind him to die. On the other hand, without Frieza to try and overthrow, he had no real reason to try and avenge himself on the guys that had nearly gotten themselves killed repeatedly (or actually, in Kuririn's case) helping him overthrow Frieza, and put themselves in harm's way to save his life at least once (against Recoome). He only wanted the immortality so that he could beat Frieza, so as long as they leave him alone now that all that is done with, he's just dandy with training himself to Goku's level. Besides, he might even appreciate his first beating, considering that it was what allowed him to stand a chance against Frieza's men on Namek.
**** Vegeta was at most Piccolo's equal by that point. Piccolo stood up to Form 2 Frieza fairly well, while Vegeta didn't have a chance. His healing by Dende boosted him, but there's no way it pushed him -that- far.
** Having an on-again-off-again with an attractive superwealthy technowhiz with an endless supply of free (to you) training equipment and effectively zero serious rivals might be the better situation that Vegeta might have otherwise hoped for. As for the grudge against Gohan and Krillin, it may be safe to say he was simply biding his time until he was sure he could curb stomp any opposition or repercussion. The only time he knew for a fact that he was the strongest Z-Fighter around happened to coincide with other enemies attracting the lion's share of his battle lust.

* Why does almost every character treat Yamcha with extreme callousness during and after the Android arc? Yamcha lost the woman he was with from his early teens to mid thirties to the sociopath who had previously killed him and its even implied he was planning on marrying her. Then later Yamcha finds out he's weak and quits defending the World which must be the equivalent of losing your job. His friends rather then support Yamcha, respond by making jokes that the baby isn't his or about his weakness. So much for TrueCompanions, did the series turn into a SadistShow when I wasn't looking?
** Toriyama wasn't focusing on personal relationships at all at that time and all of the digs are DubText by Funimation.

* We have heard Chi Chi told Goku she loved him, but has Goku ever said it back after they got married?
** It's the exact reason why Dragonball Abridged makes Goku out to be an absolutely neglectful husband and father - he never seems to treat her as anything other than a housewife that brings him food. If I was going to be fair it could be because of the influence of his natural Saiyan traits as Vegeta treats Bulma like trash also.

* How come Chi-Chi never decided to ''leave'' Goku at one point since she gets annoyed with him always leaving for years. I mean, we all understand Goku is usually InnocentlyInsensitive, but some things he does causes viewers to question his marriage with Chi-Chi.
** Good point. What would stop her from taking Gohan and her dad with her as she left? Why would she put up with someone like Goku? That is a good question! I think, deep down, she doesn't mind the fact that she's married to a very powerful guy who can fly and shoot ki beams from his hands. Hell, she probably feels safe knowing that if, say, robbers try to come and hurt her and her baby, Goku could just fling them literally across a mountain. But yeah, you do raise and interesting question.
*** Go back and watch the original series again: Chi Chi is a StalkerWithACrush. Goku made ''one'' accidental proposal to her as a small boy (he thought marriage was a type of food) and she pursued him all the way to the World Martial Arts Tournament several years later planning to ''beat him senseless'' for supposedly standing her up. This is not a woman playing with a full deck.
** Have you met Chi-Chi? She’s the most loyal wife ever. She’ll never think of leaving Goku.

* If the clothes Vegeta wears during the Buu Saga are just the clothes he wore during the Android/Cell Saga, but with the armor removed because of the tournament rules... what happened to his sleeves?
** There's nothing indicating that this is the case. It's never stated, they're baggier, and they're a different color (at least in the anime). I've always assumed as the series went on he just wore armor that was less and less resembling Freeza soldier armor and more like something an Earthling would wear as a subtle nod to his character development. After Buu the only thing resembling his old outfit is the gloves and boots.

* Why didn't Gohan and Videl have any more kids? Did something bad happen when Pan was born?
** Maybe they just wanted one kid.

* Does anyone here think that Chi-Chi is racist against Saiyans (I don't hate her though)? I mean, every time she sees her husband and sons exhibit Saiyan traits, she freaks out. Like that time she called Goten a "monster" (I know it's a dub error, but still). She even flipped out after seeing Gohan in Super Saiyan form for the first time. Why would she married a guy with a tail if she was going to flip out whenever she sees them transform into weird things?
** She doesn't seem to have anything against Saiyans, or people with tails either. As I understand it bleaching/dying your hair blonde is something only "punks" do so it's similar to the reaction an American woman might have to your hair suddenly turning into a green mohawk. Granted all we get are flashbacks but she doesn't seem particularly upset that Gohan has a tail it's just going Super that sets her off.

* Chi-Chi's transition to a fighter to a housewife bugs me. I noticed and read somewhere that she appeared in most of the filler and that her acting hostile was in filler scenes and that she's way more chill in the manga. Plus, I heard that Toriyama wanted to be "realistic" with the Japanese mother portrayal [[note]](Sorry, I don't think that wanting to go to Namek to "rescue" your son and risking your life, thinking education is more important than saving the world, or slapping someone powerful than you and getting turned into an egg and crushed is a good portrayal, anyway)[[/note]], but why with only one character?
** In order Chi-chi wanted to save her baby, sure she was about to be in way over her head but it makes sense she'd want to try especially if she thought both he and Goku were going to die on Namek. While Chi-Chi is portrayed as putting Gohan's Education ahead of saving the world the reality is that Goku had pretty much just defeated the most powerful being in the universe. Combine that with an education being the only way to support yourself and it becomes rather simple why she acts that way. Considering how "frequently" threats showed up if she hadn't been that way Gohan would never have grown up into a scholar. She slapped Majin Buu. The entire world was already dead including to the best of her knowledge her husband and eldest son. She's literally got nothing left to lose.
** She still has Goten. While granted it doesn't make up for the fact that her husband and eldest son are both, as far as she knows, dead, she's still got something to live for.

* How the hell were Vegeta and Gohan unaware of Goten and Trunks having achieved Super Saiyan Status? For starters it's established in DBZ that each person has a unique power signature to the point that until they figure out that Cell's "flavor" is Neopolitan everybody is terribly confused by him and he couldn't risk raising his power level at all or he'd be tracked down. So everybody capable of sensing energy should have known as soon as they did it, especially since it's clear that Goten has little formal training on that level having received it via Chi-Chi and Trunks and Vegeta clearly must have been training Trunks for precision instead of raw power for some reason. Even baring that the number of SSJ level powers on the planet should have been just three. Vegeta, Gohan, and Picolo. It would be excusable, if Vegeta wasn't completely aware that Gohan hadn't been training, for Vegeta to assume two strong powers were Picolo and Gohan sparing but what did Picolo and Gohan think of it? Sure Frieza's not a threat to anybody anymore but he can still blow up a planet! A power level that high should have warranted a quick fly over followed by 'oh, it's just them.'
** Good point. Trunks even mentioned that occasionally he and Goten would go Super Saiyan before play-sparring each other. It's worse for Goten, because you'd think Chi-Chi would have told Gohan by now that Goten can go Super Saiyan.
*** Presumably they weren't looking for it. Being able to sense energy doesn't mean it's always on, nor does it mean you're always watching it so closely as to identify who it is whenever you get a whiff of it.
**** It doesn't seem to be something actively turn on or off though. More just something that you do. Case in point Vegeta and Goku were in the middle of what (for at least one of them, it's not entirely clear how hard Goku was pushing other than he could have gone [=SSJ3=] if Vegeta had given him the time) is an all out fight and both of them immediately sense Buu. Everybody thought Frieza was dead and had no reason to be sensing energy then either but they all noticed Frieza on the approach as well. And the OP points out ki signatures are unique. Unique enough that Goku instantly identifies Kamicollo even though he'd never met him but knew Kami and Picollo prior. Even if they couldn't ID them that way it should have simply been okay not Vegeta, Gohan or Piccolo. I should go say hi to the fourth most powerful being in the universe. As another above poster mentions it's also a bit strange that Chi-Chi didn't tell Gohan and immediately at that. After all her baby was turning into a delinquent!
** Come to think of it, they probably would know what Trunks' and Goten's ki signatures sensed like, so it wouldn't be like they'd worry that this was a completely different being all together. Still, the question remains: why didn't they investigate when Trunks' and Goten's ki signatures suddenly shot up to Super Saiyan levels?

* Where would Son Gohan as a four-year-old toddler learn how to use the polite-masculine for of ''boku'' to refer to himself, or any of his ''extremely'' polite speech ''period.'' Remember; he is homeschooled in the mountains up to this point, and ''everyone'' in his life uses coarse-and-rude ''Osaka-Ben'' (the "Hillbilly Tongue" of Japanese) and the rude-'''masculine''' ''Ora'' (even his own MOTHER) to refer to themselves: How and where would he have learnt to talk like a young gentleman when the three grown-ups in his life talk like Hillbillies crossed with Eminem?
** I think it's to show how different he is to Goku. Goku was basically an alien boy growing up by himself in the wilderness, and Gohan's a half-human boy living with family. Er, yeah, that's just me WildMassGuessing.
** Chi-Chi wanted him to learn to talk politely, even if she doesn't herself?

* Considering how Chi-Chi ''really'' wants to have a normal family, it's somewhat FridgeHorror/FridgeLogic when you think about Gohan's birth. Here you have a baby with a monkey tail. How could Chi-Chi have reacted to it with anything but demanding the tail to be removed? Did Goku explain this to her in a way of "Well, I used to have a tail when I was his age, so it's natural"? She seems to be very comfortable with her baby having a monkey tail, yet when she finds that he can turn Super Saiyan ten years later, she falls to her knees weeping.
** [[Tropers/{{MsCC93}} I]] guess Chi-Chi didn't freak out about Gohan's tail because she always saw Goku with a tail when both of them were children, so I guess she was thinking "Well, my husband had a tail when he was little, so it must be normal for Gohan to have one," or like what you mentioned: Goku may have explained to Chi-Chi. Also, to be fair to Chi-Chi, she wasn't complaining about not having a normal family in the subbed versions of the show or the manga. The "normal family" thing is only present in the English dubs of the show. Also, as far as Chi-Chi freaking out about Gohan and Goku going Super Saiyan, let's apply ValuesDissonance here. Super Saiyans have blonde hair, and in Japan, blonde hair is usually seen as a sign of being a delinquent, which is why Chi-Chi was so worried about Gohan turning into a "punker."
*** So imagine, if you will, an American mother finding out that her son goes into a super mode where his hair turns into a green spiked mohawk and his clothes turn into spiked leather, and you'll see what Chi-Chi was worried about.
** Ah, makes sense now. Thanks above two tropers. :)
*** Also, there are animal people and monster people on their Earth.

* Okay, this has been going through my mind. So Chi-Chi's always lamenting on how she doesn't have enough money, but yet you see her shopping for food, clothes (in the Super Android 13 movie), and ''a lot'' of study materials for Gohan. That's confusing if you ask me.
** Her father is rich. Chances are she wants to make it independent of her father, and is lamenting that she can't, and keeps needing to ask him for money.

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