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** She was taking great pains to avoid detection and wouldn't even allow her name to be in the paper. It's only coincidence that the Doctor landed there in time to see the one photograph taken of her in the newspaper and stop her and an accident that her picture was taken at all.

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** She was taking great pains to avoid detection and wouldn't even allow her name to the point of not wanting to be photographed in the paper.newspapers. It's only coincidence that the Doctor landed there in time to see the one photograph taken of her in the newspaper and stop her and an accident that her picture was taken at all.



** I assume it's simply a NoodleIncident that is part of the overall joke surrounding Blaine's plan, which clearly a typically convoluted large scale ''Doctor Who'' villain plot except that the Doctor pretty much puts the halts on it within ten minutes so it doesn't matter any more; there probably is some kind of explanation, no doubt involving some kind of alien mind-control or manipulation or murdering people who could stand in the way (lots of icy patches in Cardiff) or something similar, but once the Doctor shows up it's rendered moot so we never learn what it was.

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** I assume it's simply a NoodleIncident that is part of the overall joke surrounding Blaine's plan, which clearly a typically convoluted large scale ''Doctor Who'' villain plot except that the Doctor pretty much puts the halts on it within ten minutes so it doesn't matter any more; there probably is some kind of explanation, no doubt involving some kind of alien mind-control or manipulation or murdering people who could stand in the way (lots ([[TheCoronerDothProtestTooMuch lots of icy patches in Cardiff) Cardiff]]) or something similar, but once the Doctor shows up it's rendered moot so we never learn what it was.



*** Given that Rose was burning up throughout the entire scene, it doesn't seem likely that she accomplished anything other than what we saw that is, the Daleks are destroyed and Jack is brought back to life. Everyone else stays dead, the Earth stays ravaged, and humanity rebuilds. By the End of the World, Earth has been restored to its 'classic' look, so presumably the human empire was able to rebuild it before then as a habitable planet.

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*** Given that Rose was burning up throughout the entire scene, it doesn't seem likely that she accomplished anything other than what we saw that is, the Daleks are destroyed and Jack is brought back to life. Everyone else stays dead, the Earth stays ravaged, and humanity rebuilds. By the "The End of the World, World", Earth has been restored to its 'classic' look, so presumably the human empire was able to rebuild it before then as a habitable planet.



** It's not SanDimasTime per se, but that the TARDIS teleported a little late. It's not the most accurate thing over long distances Remember when Rose went back a year late instead of a day late?

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** It's not SanDimasTime per se, but that the TARDIS teleported a little late. It's not the most accurate thing over long distances distances. Remember when Rose went back a year late instead of a day late?


** Even if they did evacuate, there's not much way for them to get the nuclear codes if Downing Street goes up in smoke. Also, the plan only really hinged on Jocrassa's death, not the whole family.

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** Even if they did evacuate, there's not much way for them to get the nuclear codes if Downing Street goes up in smoke. Also, the plan only really hinged on Jocrassa's death, Jocrassa Fel-Fotch Passamer Day Slitheen's death (as he's the one calling the shots), not the whole family.



* Because of the disappearance of the Prime Minister, the country ends up being run by Jossacra Fel Fotch/Joseph Green who isn't even a minister, let alone a Secretary of State (Chairmen of Parliamentary Committees are not part of the government at all!). Are we to assume that the entire cabinet was also removed, along with ALL of the junior ministers (since this was based on the New Labour government, that could be nearly 100 Members of Parliament)? What about the Civil Servants? Also, we later find that the PM obviously meant to be Blair was hollowed out, but then rejected for being too thin. Why didn't the Slitheen try to grab John Prescott?

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* Because of the disappearance of the Prime Minister, the country ends up being run by Jossacra Jocrassa Fel Fotch/Joseph Green who isn't even a minister, let alone a Secretary of State (Chairmen of Parliamentary Committees are not part of the government at all!). Are we to assume that the entire cabinet was also removed, along with ALL of the junior ministers (since this was based on the New Labour government, that could be nearly 100 Members of Parliament)? What about the Civil Servants? Also, we later find that the PM obviously meant to be Blair was hollowed out, but then rejected for being too thin. Why didn't the Slitheen try to grab John Prescott?Prescott?
**The PM wasn't hollowed out. They simply killed him because they needed to ensure there was enough chaos to let the Slitheen get themselves into their positions of power.



* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race... this contradicts multiple episodes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage in-universe. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists specifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure whether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuity.

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* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race... this contradicts multiple episodes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically publicly invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage in-universe. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill publicly killed a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists specifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure whether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuity.



*** Van Statten wasn't a threat to Torchwood. Sure, he had a lot of alien tech, but neither he nor his staff really knew how to use any of it Adam had filed a hairdryer under "alien weaponry" after all and a lot of it was broken or otherwise useless. And even if he did have working weapons which he could use, he wasn't antagonistic toward Britain, so any action Torchwood took against him would have been unjust in the eyes of the world.
** Yeah, uh Torchwood is was created to protect Britain from alien forces, not the United States of America. So they have no jurisdiction over the U.S.

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*** Van Statten wasn't a threat to Torchwood. Sure, he had a lot of alien tech, but neither he nor his staff really knew how to use any of it it. Adam had filed a hairdryer under "alien weaponry" after all all, and a lot of it was broken or otherwise useless. And even if he did have working weapons which he could use, he wasn't antagonistic toward Britain, so any action Torchwood took against him would have been unjust in the eyes of the world.
** Yeah, uh Torchwood is was created to protect Britain from alien forces, not the United States of America. So they have no jurisdiction over the U.S. The American equivalent of Torchwood, on the other hand, might have a lot of questions for Van Statten.



** They don't know he exists. Remember, he mind-wipes people when he fires them, so his existence is probably a secret. When Rose says that no one owns the Internet, he replies "Let's just keep everyone thinking that's true."

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** They don't know he exists, or more specifically, that his collection of alien artifacts exists. Remember, he mind-wipes people when he fires them, so his existence is probably a secret. When Rose says that no one owns the Internet, he replies "Let's just keep everyone thinking that's true."



** For what it's worth, [=S5's=] "Victory of the Daleks" suggested that the crack in space caused a large scale memory wipe of some of the Doctor's adventures (e.g. Amy not remembering the Dalek invasion in "Journey's End", everyone forgetting the giant Cyberman from "The Next Doctor"). Maybe no one on Earth remembers these events.

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** For what it's worth, [=S5's=] "Victory of the Daleks" suggested that the crack in space caused a large scale memory wipe of some of the Doctor's adventures (e.g. Amy not remembering the Dalek invasion in "Journey's End", everyone forgetting the giant Cyberman mecha that terrorized 1851 London from "The Next Doctor"). Maybe no one on Earth remembers these events.



*** FridgeLogic: Even if no-one had been able to identify them as Daleks (although given that the Doctor told Churchill what they were, there should have been ''some'' record from that period along the lines of "Turns out these robots our chap built are actually evil aliens, don't trust them"), you would think the Dalek would be smart enough to identify references to flying death robots as possible Dalek attacks, rather than going over the internet with a Ctrl-F "Dalek".

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*** FridgeLogic: Even if no-one had been able to identify them as Daleks (although given that the Doctor told Churchill what they were, there should have been ''some'' record from that period along the lines of "Turns out these robots our chap built are actually evil aliens, don't trust them"), you would think the Dalek Daleks would be smart enough to identify references to flying death robots as possible Dalek attacks, rather than going over the internet with a Ctrl-F "Dalek".



** The TARDIS doesn't translate the Judoon because, according to the Doctor, they're "too thick". While the Jagrafess obviously isn't thick, its language may be too simple for the TARDIS to be able to effectively translate. Either that, or the growling is an audio cue for the audience that it's talking, and the Jagrafess is communicating psychically.

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** The TARDIS doesn't translate the Judoon because, according to the Doctor, they're "too thick". While the Jagrafess obviously isn't thick, its language may be too simple for the TARDIS to be able to effectively translate. Either that, or the growling is an audio cue for the audience that it's talking, and the Jagrafess is communicating psychically.psychically (which would also explain how Martha was able to communicate with the Hath in "The Doctor's Daughter").


** Or they eat them; they ''are'' aliens, after all. Of course, that in itself would also be rather messy and unpleasant, but perhaps they have some kind of "suck-out-his-insides" thing going on.
* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race... this contradicts multiple epiosdes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage in-universe. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists specifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure whether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuity.

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** Or they eat them; they ''are'' aliens, after all. Of course, that in itself would also be rather messy and unpleasant, but perhaps they have some kind of "suck-out-his-insides" thing going on.
on, based on the shift that happens when the one posing as Oliver Charles takes over the skin of General Asquith.
* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race... this contradicts multiple epiosdes episodes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage in-universe. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists specifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure whether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuity.


*** Well [[CaptainObvious duh]], but what happened to all the other people the Daleks killed (apart from Jack), both on Earth and the station itself? In retrospect, the Doctor's choice doesn't look like much of a choice (the Daleks had already devastated Earth and probably eradicated its entire population, given that their attacks were shown to ''deform continents'') of course, the Doctor didn't know that.

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*** Well [[CaptainObvious duh]], but But what happened to all the other people the Daleks killed (apart from Jack), both on Earth and the station itself? In retrospect, the Doctor's choice doesn't look like much of a choice (the Daleks had already devastated Earth and probably eradicated its entire population, given that their attacks were shown to ''deform continents'') of course, the Doctor didn't know that.



** Also, if the Daleks got their hands, er, suckers, on Time Lord technology, [[CaptainObvious that would be very, very bad]].

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** Also, if the Daleks got their hands, er, suckers, on Time Lord technology, [[CaptainObvious that would be very, very bad]].bad.



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----



[[folder:The End of the World]]

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[[folder:The [[folder:"The End of the World]]World"]]



** For the first point, the fans are clearly controlling the cooling -- and presumably the air flow -- for the station; switch them off, and given the immense amount of heat that is building outside and is already getting in thanks to the 'no-shields' situation, the temperature will rise to incredibly dangerous levels incredibly quickly, the air will stop circulating, and everyone inside will either literally boil to death or suffocate, which isn't exactly an ideal situation. Presumably slowing them is a bit better than stopping them outright. Secondly, the question's already kind of answered by the fact that it's clearly difficult enough for the Doctor to do the 'fan-stepping' thing ''once'' with any great swiftness; since he clearly has to stop, focus and time his step exactly to cross every fan, and he's also on a rapidly diminishing timer, he doesn't really have time to do it for each fan -- he only does it the once because he's out of options and because Jabe's sacrifice bought him enough time to get past the first two fans. As for the third, that's essentially asking him to inch across a very narrow platform over what is obviously a very large drop by his fingertips; not easy, not quick, and if he slips up once he falls to a very messy death and everyone dies.

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** For the first point, the fans are clearly controlling the cooling -- and presumably the air flow -- for the station; switch them off, and given the immense amount of heat that is building outside and is already getting in thanks to the 'no-shields' "no-shields" situation, the temperature will rise to incredibly dangerous levels incredibly quickly, the air will stop circulating, and everyone inside will either literally boil to death or suffocate, which isn't exactly an ideal situation. Presumably slowing them is a bit better than stopping them outright. Secondly, the question's already kind of answered by the fact that it's clearly difficult enough for the Doctor to do the 'fan-stepping' "fan-stepping" thing ''once'' with any great swiftness; since he clearly has to stop, focus and time his step exactly to cross every fan, and he's also on a rapidly diminishing timer, he doesn't really have time to do it for each fan -- he only does it the once because he's out of options and because Jabe's sacrifice bought him enough time to get past the first two fans. As for the third, that's essentially asking him to inch across a very narrow platform over what is obviously a very large drop by his fingertips; not easy, not quick, and if he slips up once he falls to a very messy death and everyone dies.



** The Ninth Doctor dealt with Cassandra, and the Tenth dealt with the master. Different Doctors, different standards of justice.

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** The Ninth Doctor dealt with Cassandra, and the Tenth dealt with the master.Master. Different Doctors, different standards of justice.



* Here's one. In "Trial of a Time Lord," the Sixth Doctor discovers that the Time Lords moved Earth halfway across the Universe, how were the Ninth Doctor and Rose able to watch its destruction several million years later?

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* Here's one. In "Trial "The Trial of a Time Lord," Lord", the Sixth Doctor discovers that the Time Lords moved Earth halfway across the Universe, how were the Ninth Doctor and Rose able to watch its destruction several million years later?



*** Think about it this way- if a rackety old Type 40 TARDIS like the Doctor's can move planets as long as it has six pilots, imagine what the Time Lord high council at the height of their power can do. It'd be ridiculously simple for them.

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*** Think about it this way- way if a rackety old Type 40 TARDIS like the Doctor's can move planets as long as it has six pilots, imagine what the Time Lord high council at the height of their power can do. It'd be ridiculously simple for them.



** Even if the Time Lords ''didn't'' restore Ravolox to its original position at the end of ''Trial of a Time Lord'', the Time Lords had already been removed from history by the time the Ninth Doctor took Rose to witness the final destruction of the planet. There's no reason to think the events of the earlier story still happened.
** The human race could force back the red giant sun's expansion and the planet's continents in the year 5 billion-moving the Earth back would be child's play in the eons to come.
* At the climax of the episode, the Doctor and Jabe are trying to fix the shields, Rose is trapped in a locked room with a breaking sun-filter, and the rest of the guests and crew are in the main viewing room. But... the viewing room isn't locked, and Platform One is full of rooms that ''aren't'' directly in the line of fire for the exploding sun. So why don't they leave? The sun-filter was cracking, and they knew the Doctor was working to save them, so why stay in the room that was most at risk?
** Well, who's to say they would be much better off if they moved? Wouldn't the sun just blow the whole station up? Ok, maybe they would have seconds, but they must have agreed that it wasn't much or something.

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** Even if the Time Lords ''didn't'' restore Ravolox to its original position at the end of ''Trial ''The Trial of a Time Lord'', the Time Lords had already been removed from history by the time the Ninth Doctor took Rose to witness the final destruction of the planet. There's no reason to think the events of the earlier story still happened.
** The human race could force back the red giant sun's Sun's expansion and the planet's continents in the year 5 billion-moving billion moving the Earth back would be child's play in the eons to come.
* At the climax of the episode, the Doctor and Jabe are trying to fix the shields, Rose is trapped in a locked room with a breaking sun-filter, and the rest of the guests and crew are in the main viewing room. But... the viewing room isn't locked, and Platform One is full of rooms that ''aren't'' directly in the line of fire for the exploding sun.Sun. So why don't they leave? The sun-filter was cracking, and they knew the Doctor was working to save them, so why stay in the room that was most at risk?
** Well, who's to say they would be much better off if they moved? Wouldn't the sun Sun just blow the whole station up? Ok, maybe they would have seconds, but they must have agreed that it wasn't much or something.



[[folder:The Unquiet Dead]]

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[[folder:The [[folder:"The Unquiet Dead]]Dead"]]



[[folder:Aliens of London/World War Three]]

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[[folder:Aliens [[folder:"Aliens of London/World London"/"World War Three]]Three"]]



*** In the Expanded Universe, Liz Shaw [[Main/BackForTheDead died in 2003]]. Which would be nice and simple except that in the same book, a tenth of the world's population also died, with no Main/ResetButton. And it's pretty clear that in the Earth we see in the new series, that disaster never took place.
*** In ''Series/TheSarahJaneAdventures'' episode ''Death of the Doctor'' (set 7 years after 2003), Dr. Shaw is alive and couldn't make it due to being stranded on a moonbase.

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*** In the Expanded Universe, Liz Shaw [[Main/BackForTheDead [[BackForTheDead died in 2003]]. Which would be nice and simple except that in the same book, a tenth of the world's population also died, with no Main/ResetButton.ResetButton. And it's pretty clear that in the Earth we see in the new series, that disaster never took place.
*** In ''Series/TheSarahJaneAdventures'' episode ''Death "Death of the Doctor'' Doctor" (set 7 years after 2003), Dr. Shaw is alive and couldn't make it due to being stranded on a moonbase.



** Regarding Jack, he knew all about the Slitheen incident because he met Margaret in Boom Town a few months after these events. He knew that he couldn't get involved for this reason - as it would cause a huge paradox - and also knew that the Doctor had it covered so he wasn't needed anyway.

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** Regarding Jack, he knew all about the Slitheen incident because he met Margaret in Boom Town "Boom Town" a few months after these events. He knew that he couldn't get involved for this reason - as it would cause a huge paradox - and also knew that the Doctor had it covered so he wasn't needed anyway. anyway.



* So...the plan was to hack a submarine using the "buffalo" password and launch a missile at 10 Downing Street. But the plan completely depends on that fact that all the aliens are standing around together, that none of them are outside already and that none of them evacuate when informed of the incoming missile. If they hadn't coincidentally been naked at the time, they would have evacuated easily. And even considering that they were naked, you'd think one or two of them would evacuate anyway. The Doctor got lucky.

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* So... the plan was to hack a submarine using the "buffalo" password and launch a missile at 10 Downing Street. But the plan completely depends on that fact that all the aliens are standing around together, that none of them are outside already and that none of them evacuate when informed of the incoming missile. If they hadn't coincidentally been naked at the time, they would have evacuated easily. And even considering that they were naked, you'd think one or two of them would evacuate anyway. The Doctor got lucky.



* Because of the disappearance of the Prime Minister, the country ends up being run by Jossacra Fel Fotch/Joseph Green - who isn't even a minister, let alone a Secretary of State (Chairmen of Parliamentary Committees are not part of the government at all!). Are we to assume that the entire cabinet was also removed, along with ALL of the junior ministers (since this was based on the New Labour government, that could be nearly 100 Members of Parliament)? What about the Civil Servants? Also, we later find that the PM -obviously meant to be Blair- was hollowed out, but then rejected for being too thin. Why didn't the Slitheen try to grab John Prescott?

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* Because of the disappearance of the Prime Minister, the country ends up being run by Jossacra Fel Fotch/Joseph Green - who isn't even a minister, let alone a Secretary of State (Chairmen of Parliamentary Committees are not part of the government at all!). Are we to assume that the entire cabinet was also removed, along with ALL of the junior ministers (since this was based on the New Labour government, that could be nearly 100 Members of Parliament)? What about the Civil Servants? Also, we later find that the PM -obviously obviously meant to be Blair- Blair was hollowed out, but then rejected for being too thin. Why didn't the Slitheen try to grab John Prescott?



* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race...this contradicts multiple epiosdes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage in-universe. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists specifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure whether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuity.
** Season 5's explanation of [[spoiler: the cracks in time]] may answer this.

to:

* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race... this contradicts multiple epiosdes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage in-universe. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists specifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure whether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuity.
** Season 5's explanation of [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the cracks in time]] may answer this.




[[folder:Dalek]]

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\n[[folder:Dalek]][[folder:"Dalek"]]



** Even if we don't go the "Timey Wimey" explanation (i.e. since "Victory of the Daleks" happened after "Dalek" relative to the Doctor's timeline, the former somehow hadn't happened before the latter), there's plenty of possible explanations. Since there was no Internet in Britain during World War Two and the Daleks left (apparently) before the United States entered the war, it's possible that the Americans never found out about them. Paper documents could have been destroyed (either deliberately or during the many times that London was bombed by the Luftwaffe -- a lot of government documents went up in smoke during the war one way or another) and covered up. Any documentation would also, as far as Van Statten was concerned, refer to what appeared to be a British robotics project called "Ironsides", which might seem like a possible tangent but wouldn't really be much help to him. Particularly since (IIRC) his 'Metaltron' ended up on Earth after the Second World War (I believe it was some time in the 1950s).

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** Even if we don't go the "Timey Wimey" explanation (i.e. since "Victory of the Daleks" happened after "Dalek" relative to the Doctor's timeline, the former somehow hadn't happened before the latter), there's plenty of possible explanations. Since there was no Internet in Britain during World War Two II and the Daleks left (apparently) before the United States entered the war, it's possible that the Americans never found out about them. Paper documents could have been destroyed (either deliberately or during the many times that London was bombed by the Luftwaffe -- a lot of government documents went up in smoke during the war one way or another) and covered up. Any documentation would also, as far as Van Statten was concerned, refer to what appeared to be a British robotics project called "Ironsides", which might seem like a possible tangent but wouldn't really be much help to him. Particularly since (IIRC) his 'Metaltron' "Metaltron" ended up on Earth after the Second World War (I believe it was some time in the 1950s).
1950s).















*** Which actually makes sense, since Henry Van Statten wanted to keep his alien collection super-secret (to the point of mind-wiping subordinates), and a big helipad in the middle of nowhere in Utah is bound to draw some attention.

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*** Which actually makes sense, since Henry Van van Statten wanted to keep his alien collection super-secret (to the point of mind-wiping subordinates), and a big helipad in the middle of nowhere in Utah is bound to draw some attention.









** The time travelers they would have been most likely to absorb bio-mass from during the Time War would have been Time Lords -- themselves a pretty cold, inhuman and, during the Time War at least, ruthlessly genocidal race, so the effects would have been less drastic. Presumably since humanity doesn't time travel as much they were less prepared for the effects of absorbing humanity.

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** The time travelers travellers they would have been most likely to absorb bio-mass from during the Time War would have been Time Lords -- themselves a pretty cold, inhuman and, during the Time War at least, ruthlessly genocidal race, so the effects would have been less drastic. Presumably since humanity doesn't time travel as much they were less prepared for the effects of absorbing humanity.




* Why did Torchwood One never go up against Van Statten? The whole point of the original Torchwood was to acquire alien technology, fight the Doctor and to build a new British Empire. Van Statten has a huge bunker full of exotic technology, including a gun the Doctor believes could destroy a Time War model Dalek, and from what we see his power apparently equals Torchwood's: he has access to memory drugs, he can replace presidents at will and he even invented the internet. He should be a target equal to the Doctor.
** I have 3 ideas: 1 - he started acquiring those things after 2006 - and got a lot from Torchwood itself. 2 - No one cares about Americans 3 - It was too dangerous to meddle with him, he knew much about them.
** OWNS the Internet. Not necessarily invented it. Maybe he's easily hidden. It wasn't until the spinoff started airing that the cracks in Torchwood's facade showed, and by then, they were around for a century.
*** If I remember correctly, this episode was stated to be in 2012

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\n* Why did Torchwood One never go up against Van van Statten? The whole point of the original Torchwood was to acquire alien technology, fight the Doctor and to build a new British Empire. Van Statten has a huge bunker full of exotic technology, including a gun the Doctor believes could destroy a Time War model Dalek, and from what we see his power apparently equals Torchwood's: he has access to memory drugs, he can replace presidents at will and he even invented the internet. He should be a target equal to the Doctor.
** I have 3 ideas: 1 - he started acquiring those things after 2006 - and got a lot from Torchwood itself. 2 - No one cares about Americans Americans. 3 - It was too dangerous to meddle with him, he knew much about them.
** OWNS the Internet. Not necessarily invented it. Maybe he's easily hidden. It wasn't until the spinoff started airing that the cracks in Torchwood's facade façade showed, and by then, they were around for a century.
*** If I remember correctly, this episode was stated to be in 20122012.



*** Van Statten wasn't a threat to Torchwood. Sure, he had a lot of alien tech, but neither he nor his staff really knew how to use any of it - Adam had filed a hairdryer under 'alien weaponry' after all - and a lot of it was broken or otherwise useless. And even if he did have working weapons which he could use, he wasn't antagonistic toward Britain, so any action Torchwood took against him would have been unjust in the eyes of the world.

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*** Van Statten wasn't a threat to Torchwood. Sure, he had a lot of alien tech, but neither he nor his staff really knew how to use any of it - Adam had filed a hairdryer under 'alien weaponry' "alien weaponry" after all - and a lot of it was broken or otherwise useless. And even if he did have working weapons which he could use, he wasn't antagonistic toward Britain, so any action Torchwood took against him would have been unjust in the eyes of the world.



*** Well, the Americans probably care about jurisdiction, and -- Torchwood aside -- probably have just as much if not more clout in these sorts of matters as Britain does; if Britain has a secret alien-hunting quasi-government organization like Torchwood running around on top of UNIT, then it's almost 100% certain that the United States does as well. And they're probably not going to look very kindly on British agents kidnapping one of their citizens.

to:

*** Well, the Americans probably care about jurisdiction, and -- Torchwood aside -- probably have just as much if not more clout in these sorts of matters as Britain does; if Britain has a secret alien-hunting quasi-government organization like Torchwood running around on top of UNIT, then it's almost 100% certain that the United States does as well. And they're probably not going to look very kindly on British agents kidnapping one of their citizens.






** Truthfully, it seems like things that happen in the Doctor's future rarely affect his past; case in point, it doesn't matter if the Dalek invasions supposedly happened in the past, at this point in the current timeline, because this has not happened to the doctor yet, it has not happened, and has no effect on these events. There is a similar explanation for [[spoiler: Trenzalore; the Doctor's "tomb" on that planet existed in a timeline where Clara Oswald had not jumped into his timestream, or convinced the Time Lords to save his life;]] therefore, we are seeing a sort of alternate timestream, or the timeline got tweaked, or something. Basically, time is always in flux.
** Those events only lasted for a very short time before the doctor got rid of them. Odds are Henry was probably still in his museum tinkering with alien junk.
** For what it's worth, S5's "Victory of the Daleks" suggested that the crack in space caused a large scale memory wipe of some of the Doctor's adventures (e.g. Amy not remembering the Dalek invasion in Journey's End, everyone forgetting the giant Cyberman from The Next Doctor). Maybe no one on Earth remembers these events.
*** The cracks erasing the events doesn't make sense, since they were closed at the end of [[Recap/DoctorWhoS31E13TheBigBang "The Big Bang"]], and other things that had been swallowed by the cracks (such as Amy's parents) were shown to be back. By 2012, there should have been records of Daleks from [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E12TheStolenEarth the time the Daleks]] [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E13JourneysEnd moved the Earth across space]], as well as Torchwood files on [[Recap/DoctorWhoS28E13Doomsday Daleks at Canary Warf]] and [[[[Recap/DoctorWhoS31E3VictoryOfTheDaleks Churchill's Ironsides]]. But apparently, the internet is completely void of any references to Daleks!
*** FridgeBrilliance: on most of those occasions, the longest contact anyone had with the Daleks was most likely ended seconds later with a horrible death, which wouldn't exactly leave much time or opportunity for exchanging business cards, so to speak. So while there may be reports of strange metal creatures whizzing around dispensing death from on high, most reports outside of highly classified UNIT type things probably contain little that is useful for actually identifying them.

to:

** Truthfully, it seems like things that happen in the Doctor's future rarely affect his past; case in point, it doesn't matter if the Dalek invasions supposedly happened in the past, at this point in the current timeline, because this has not happened to the doctor yet, it has not happened, and has no effect on these events. There is a similar explanation for [[spoiler: Trenzalore; [[spoiler:Trenzalore; the Doctor's "tomb" on that planet existed in a timeline where Clara Oswald had not jumped into his timestream, or convinced the Time Lords to save his life;]] therefore, we are seeing a sort of alternate timestream, or the timeline got tweaked, or something. Basically, time is always in flux.
** Those events only lasted for a very short time before the doctor Doctor got rid of them. Odds are Henry was probably still in his museum tinkering with alien junk.
** For what it's worth, S5's [=S5's=] "Victory of the Daleks" suggested that the crack in space caused a large scale memory wipe of some of the Doctor's adventures (e.g. Amy not remembering the Dalek invasion in Journey's End, "Journey's End", everyone forgetting the giant Cyberman from The "The Next Doctor).Doctor"). Maybe no one on Earth remembers these events.
*** The cracks erasing the events doesn't make sense, since they were closed at the end of [[Recap/DoctorWhoS31E13TheBigBang "The Big Bang"]], and other things that had been swallowed by the cracks (such as Amy's parents) were shown to be back. By 2012, there should have been records of Daleks from [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E12TheStolenEarth the time the Daleks]] [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E13JourneysEnd moved the Earth across space]], as well as Torchwood files on [[Recap/DoctorWhoS28E13Doomsday Daleks at Canary Warf]] and [[[[Recap/DoctorWhoS31E3VictoryOfTheDaleks Churchill's Ironsides]]. But apparently, the internet Internet is completely void of any references to Daleks!
*** FridgeBrilliance: on most of those occasions, the longest contact anyone had with the Daleks was most likely ended seconds later with a horrible death, which wouldn't exactly leave much time or opportunity for exchanging business cards, so to speak. So while there may be reports of strange metal creatures whizzing around dispensing death from on high, most reports outside of highly classified UNIT type things probably contain little that is useful for actually identifying them.



*** Due to the TimeyWimeyBall nature of the Time War, no-one from post-war seems to be able to encounter anyone from prewar, which is why the Doctor always knows he's dealing with post-war Daleks in the new series. Surely the fact that Daleks have been active post-war should be enough for the lone Dalek to know there are other survivors -- even if it doesn't help it in the short-term, it should mean it continues to seek orders rather than just blindly wipe out the base and then feel sorry for itself.
*** At the risk of making this discussion start to seem a bit interminable, the Dalek clearly mentions that it's hacked into radio telescopes and satellite systems and discovered no sign of any Dalek activity whatsoever. The fact that some records might suggest that other Daleks ''were'' alive post-Time War but pre-2012 doesn't change the fact that they're clearly not alive now, so that's not very helpful to the Dalek in it's current predicament. Any Dalek that survives the war and ends up at a point in the future is presumably out of reach to that particular Dalek, meaning that it has little reason if any to suspect that it's not actually the last Dalek. As for why it gets a bit mopey, since the whole point of the episode is that the Dalek is being corrupted by the human factor introduced into its system through contacting Rose, we can suggest that this is a possible side-effect.

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*** Due to the TimeyWimeyBall nature of the Time War, no-one from post-war seems to be able to encounter anyone from prewar, which is why the Doctor always knows he's dealing with post-war Daleks in the new series. Surely the fact that Daleks have been active post-war should be enough for the lone Dalek to know there are other survivors -- even if it doesn't help it in the short-term, it should mean it continues to seek orders rather than just blindly wipe out the base and then feel sorry for itself.
*** At the risk of making this discussion start to seem a bit interminable, the Dalek clearly mentions that it's hacked into radio telescopes and satellite systems and discovered no sign of any Dalek activity whatsoever. The fact that some records might suggest that other Daleks ''were'' alive post-Time War but pre-2012 doesn't change the fact that they're clearly not alive now, so that's not very helpful to the Dalek in it's its current predicament. Any Dalek that survives the war and ends up at a point in the future is presumably out of reach to that particular Dalek, meaning that it has little reason if any to suspect that it's not actually the last Dalek. As for why it gets a bit mopey, since the whole point of the episode is that the Dalek is being corrupted by the human factor introduced into its system through contacting Rose, we can suggest that this is a possible side-effect.



[[folder:The Long Game]]

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[[folder:The [[folder:"The Long Game]]Game"]]






*** That 'somebody' happens to be his own ''mother'', though; it's not entirely unreasonable to suggest that alien implant or not, she might have not be incredibly quick to have her own son dissected. Chances, he was just forced to live a very dull, quiet and anonymous life.
*** except that he would have to never go out in public or make friends or anything, because a random person in the marketplace could snap their fingers and WHOOPS! pop goes the brain-thingy! So, he'd basically have to stay inside for the rest of his life. Sucks to be him, I guess.

to:

*** That 'somebody' "somebody" happens to be his own ''mother'', though; it's not entirely unreasonable to suggest that alien implant or not, she might have not be incredibly quick to have her own son dissected. Chances, he was just forced to live a very dull, quiet and anonymous life.
*** except Except that he would have to never go out in public or make friends or anything, because a random person in the marketplace could snap their fingers and WHOOPS! pop goes the brain-thingy! So, he'd basically have to stay inside for the rest of his life. Sucks to be him, I guess.



*** Late to the party, but he does become a major villain in the comics, before a [[spoiler: RedemptionEqualsDeath thing]].

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*** Late to the party, but he does become a major villain in the comics, before a [[spoiler: RedemptionEqualsDeath thing]].
[[spoiler:RedemptionEqualsDeath thing]].



** The TARDIS doesn't translate the Judoon because, according to the Doctor, they're 'too thick'. While the Jagrafess obviously isn't thick, its language may be too simple for the TARDIS to be able to effectively translate. Either that, or the growling is an audio cue for the audience that it's talking, and the Jagrafess is communicating psychically.

to:

** The TARDIS doesn't translate the Judoon because, according to the Doctor, they're 'too thick'."too thick". While the Jagrafess obviously isn't thick, its language may be too simple for the TARDIS to be able to effectively translate. Either that, or the growling is an audio cue for the audience that it's talking, and the Jagrafess is communicating psychically.




* In ninety-one years, nobody cleared out the dead bodies on floor 500? And for that matter, why is there anything up there other than the Editor's control room, like the vendor station and the brain terminal thing? It's not like they were trying to be discreet or anything - difficult to do that with everything iced over and dead bodies everywhere. And why ''are'' they there, anyway? Did the Jagrafess just literally come in and turn the heating down without warning? Why didn't it (through the Editor) just go 'Oh, we're remodelling this floor for executive use only, we'll be promoting you on an individual basis to let you in.'?

to:

\n* In ninety-one years, nobody cleared out the dead bodies on floor 500? And for that matter, why is there anything up there other than the Editor's control room, like the vendor station and the brain terminal thing? It's not like they were trying to be discreet or anything - difficult to do that with everything iced over and dead bodies everywhere. And why ''are'' they there, anyway? Did the Jagrafess just literally come in and turn the heating down without warning? Why didn't it (through the Editor) just go 'Oh, we're remodelling this floor for executive use only, we'll be promoting you on an individual basis to let you in.'?



[[folder: Father's Day]]

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[[folder: Father's Day]][[folder:"Father's Day"]]



** It wasn't just one time traveler visiting the same event twice, its ''three''-Rose, the Doctor and the TARDIS.
** Ok, people, it's a different situation than normal. Rather than just changing time, it's a clear paradox. Rose wants to see her dad before he dies, so gets the Doctor to take her there. He does, she gets the ''IdiotBall'' and saves him. Now Rose grew up with her father. So she has no reason to want to go back and see him. So she isn't there to save him. So he dies. So she wants to go back and see him...you see the problem.

to:

** It wasn't just one time traveler visiting the same event twice, its ''three''-Rose, ''three'' Rose, the Doctor and the TARDIS.
** Ok, people, it's a different situation than normal. Rather than just changing time, it's a clear paradox. Rose wants to see her dad before he dies, so gets the Doctor to take her there. He does, she gets the ''IdiotBall'' and saves him. Now Rose grew up with her father. So she has no reason to want to go back and see him. So she isn't there to save him. So he dies. So she wants to go back and see him... you see the problem.



** Paradoxes are, if I understood the Tenth Doctor correctly in The Runaway Bride, caused when you go back in time and change ''your own'' past, as opposed to someone else's. If you change someone else's past, then their present and future is fixed. If you change your own past, then...well, you're changing your own past. Rose first went back in time, saw her father die, etc. When Rose saved her father, she ran in front of her past self, changing her own course of events and causing the demons to appear. Notice how after she runs in front of her past self and the past Doctor, they vanish.

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** Paradoxes are, if I understood the Tenth Doctor correctly in The "The Runaway Bride, Bride", caused when you go back in time and change ''your own'' past, as opposed to someone else's. If you change someone else's past, then their present and future is fixed. If you change your own past, then... well, you're changing your own past. Rose first went back in time, saw her father die, etc. When Rose saved her father, she ran in front of her past self, changing her own course of events and causing the demons to appear. Notice how after she runs in front of her past self and the past Doctor, they vanish.



** This is just speculation, but part of the reason that Rose goes with the Doctor in the first place is because her life sucks, and part of the reason for that (granted, a small part) is because her dad died when she was a baby. If she saves her dad, it could very easily prevent her from going with the Doctor at all, which not only would double the whole paradox going on in this particular episode, but end up erasing all of reality - every universe, every timeline, EVERYTHING - when there's no one to warn the Doctor about the reality bomb much later.

to:

** This is just speculation, but part of the reason that Rose goes with the Doctor in the first place is because her life sucks, and part of the reason for that (granted, a small part) is because her dad died when she was a baby. If she saves her dad, it could very easily prevent her from going with the Doctor at all, which not only would double the whole paradox going on in this particular episode, but end up erasing all of reality - every universe, every timeline, EVERYTHING - when there's no one to warn the Doctor about the reality bomb much later.






** The car appears to be 'following' Pete in order to try and put the timeline back on track, so since Pete is currently in the church, the car phases in and out around the church. Presumably history is being 'edited' slightly so as to always put that car in a position where it would run into Pete Tyler at some point, wherever Pete Tyler might be.
* So, to recap: Father's Day is a whole mess of "paradoxes", which, for the sake of discussion, refers to infringements of the space-time continuum. Including: Rose and the Doctor travelling back in time, (this troper has always considered any form of time travel to put some sort of strain on the space time continuum, just because the time traveler consumes precious oxygen), Rose revealing herself to a previous version of herself and the Doctor, Rose saving her father's life, and Rose touching her baby self. Any one of these "paradoxes" on their own might pass without consequence; for example, the Doctor has come in contact with previous versions of himself at least a dozen times, with seemingly very little impact on the space-time continuum. However, Rose saving her father's life is a legitimate, Webster-definition paradox- not just because it cancelled out their reason for travelling into the past, but because it cancelled out that previous version of themselves. Pile these paradoxes all together, and then remember that the Time Lords aren't there to monitor the space time continuum, (however it is they do that,) and you've got a mess, and the universe get cranky.
* I've heard enough people complain that the paradox shown in 'Father's Day' caused the Reapers to appear when no paradox before or since ever has is an example of bad writing. But the thing is, the situation in 'Father's Day' is not just a paradox, it's a massive pile-up of paradoxes. To elaborate: The Doctor, a very significant space-time event, was there twice. The TARDIS, a huge space-time event, was there twice. Rose, who would later become Bad Wolf, a HUGE space-time event, was there THREE TIMES. That four paradoxes (Doctor, TARDIS, Rose x 2) in one point in space-time. Time is already at breaking point. THEN Rose changes her Father's history (another paradox) and in doing so is spotted by the past Doctor (another Paradox) and past Rose (another paradox!) That's SEVEN paradoxes all within a few moments of each other, and time simply broke underneath the weight of them all. This cluster-f*** paradoxes is a situation has never occurred again in the series, explaining why the Reapers have never reappeared.

to:

** The car appears to be 'following' "following" Pete in order to try and put the timeline back on track, so since Pete is currently in the church, the car phases in and out around the church. Presumably history is being 'edited' "edited" slightly so as to always put that car in a position where it would run into Pete Tyler at some point, wherever Pete Tyler might be.
* So, to recap: Father's Day "Father's Day" is a whole mess of "paradoxes", which, for the sake of discussion, refers to infringements of the space-time continuum. Including: Rose and the Doctor travelling back in time, (this troper has always considered any form of time travel to put some sort of strain on the space time continuum, just because the time traveler consumes precious oxygen), Rose revealing herself to a previous version of herself and the Doctor, Rose saving her father's life, and Rose touching her baby self. Any one of these "paradoxes" on their own might pass without consequence; for example, the Doctor has come in contact with previous versions of himself at least a dozen times, with seemingly very little impact on the space-time continuum. However, Rose saving her father's life is a legitimate, Webster-definition paradox- not just because it cancelled out their reason for travelling into the past, but because it cancelled out that previous version of themselves. Pile these paradoxes all together, and then remember that the Time Lords aren't there to monitor the space time continuum, (however it is they do that,) and you've got a mess, and the universe get cranky.
* I've heard enough people complain that the paradox shown in 'Father's Day' "Father's Day" caused the Reapers to appear when no paradox before or since ever has is an example of bad writing. But the thing is, the situation in 'Father's Day' "Father's Day" is not just a paradox, it's a massive pile-up of paradoxes. To elaborate: The Doctor, a very significant space-time event, was there twice. The TARDIS, a huge space-time event, was there twice. Rose, who would later become Bad Wolf, a HUGE space-time event, was there THREE TIMES. That four paradoxes (Doctor, TARDIS, Rose x 2) in one point in space-time. Time is already at breaking point. THEN Rose changes her Father's history (another paradox) and in doing so is spotted by the past Doctor (another Paradox) and past Rose (another paradox!) That's SEVEN paradoxes all within a few moments of each other, and time simply broke underneath the weight of them all. This cluster-f*** of paradoxes is a situation has never occurred again in the series, explaining why the Reapers have never reappeared.



[[folder:The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances]]

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[[folder:The [[folder:"The Empty Child/The Child"/"The Doctor Dances]]Dances"]]



*** I personally believe that any nanomedical treatment would use a template system. It looks at the DNA, anything that matches that DNA, within a certain level of variance, is treated as template X. Normally, the template would be created from a healthy subject...in this case, the subject was a badly injured human, so they were 'fixing' all of the humans encountered to that basic template...injuries, mask (which could well have ended up fused to the skin when the other injuries were acquired). It wasn't until the nanogenes encountered a ''real'' healthy human, and one that was very, very close to the original template (enough that they got confused and started comparing notes...), that they learned how humans ''should'' be built. Basically, the nanogenes had a bad install of the 'human' mod, and were corrupted well when they parted ways. Defile type. It wasn't until they encountered the Doctor and the boy's mother that they got 'patched'.

to:

*** I personally believe that any nanomedical treatment would use a template system. It looks at the DNA, anything that matches that DNA, within a certain level of variance, is treated as template X. Normally, the template would be created from a healthy subject... in this case, the subject was a badly injured human, so they were 'fixing' "fixing" all of the humans encountered to that basic template...template... injuries, mask (which could well have ended up fused to the skin when the other injuries were acquired). It wasn't until the nanogenes encountered a ''real'' healthy human, and one that was very, very close to the original template (enough that they got confused and started comparing notes...), that they learned how humans ''should'' be built. Basically, the nanogenes had a bad install of the 'human' mod, and were corrupted well when they parted ways. Defile type. It wasn't until they encountered the Doctor and the boy's mother that they got 'patched'.



*** So they copy the gas mask onto people, yet don't copy the kid's clothing? Or the straps that held his mask in place? Why, if they're copying non-living structures around his head, didn't they turn all the infectees' hair the same color as his?

to:

*** So they copy the gas mask onto people, yet don't copy the kid's clothing? Or the straps that held his mask in place? Why, if they're copying non-living structures around his head, didn't they turn all the infectees' hair the same color colour as his?









*** There seems to be a lot more 'corrupted' nanogenes floating about than 'non-corrupted' ones inside Jack's ship; the corrupted ones could easily overwhelm the non-corrupted ones if they were introduced together, thus causing the plan to backfire. Furthermore, possibly the ones inside a regular spaceship are programmed more as a relatively basic 'first-aid kit' (i.e fixing up relatively minor scrapes like the Doctor's hand) whereas the ones inside an ambulance would be a lot more complex and in-depth as would be required for the more serious injuries they'd have to deal with.

to:

*** ** There seems to be a lot more 'corrupted' nanogenes floating about than 'non-corrupted' ones inside Jack's ship; the corrupted ones could easily overwhelm the non-corrupted ones if they were introduced together, thus causing the plan to backfire. Furthermore, possibly the ones inside a regular spaceship are programmed more as a relatively basic 'first-aid kit' (i.e fixing up relatively minor scrapes like the Doctor's hand) whereas the ones inside an ambulance would be a lot more complex and in-depth as would be required for the more serious injuries they'd have to deal with.
with.






[[folder:Boom Town]]

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[[folder:Boom Town]][[folder:"Boom Town"]]















[[folder:Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways]]

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[[folder:Bad Wolf/The [[folder:"Bad Wolf"/"The Parting of the Ways]]Ways"]]



*** Well [[CaptainObvious duh]], but what happened to all the other people the Daleks killed (apart from Jack), both on Earth and the station itself? In retrospect, the Doctor's choice doesn't look like much of a choice (the Daleks had already devastated Earth and probably eradicated its entire population, given that their attacks were shown to ''deform continents'') -- of course, the Doctor didn't know that.

to:

*** Well [[CaptainObvious duh]], but what happened to all the other people the Daleks killed (apart from Jack), both on Earth and the station itself? In retrospect, the Doctor's choice doesn't look like much of a choice (the Daleks had already devastated Earth and probably eradicated its entire population, given that their attacks were shown to ''deform continents'') -- of course, the Doctor didn't know that.



*** Given that Rose was burning up throughout the entire scene, it doesn't seem likely that she accomplished anything other than what we saw - that is, the Daleks are destroyed and Jack is brought back to life. Everyone else stays dead, the Earth stays ravaged, and humanity rebuilds. By the End of the World, Earth has been restored to its 'classic' look, so presumably the human empire was able to rebuild it before then as a habitable planet.
** I recall the Doctor telling Rose that Captain Jack had been left behind to start rebuilding the earth. Since the Bad Wolf ended up making Jack immortal, this ended up being a good choice.

to:

*** Given that Rose was burning up throughout the entire scene, it doesn't seem likely that she accomplished anything other than what we saw - that is, the Daleks are destroyed and Jack is brought back to life. Everyone else stays dead, the Earth stays ravaged, and humanity rebuilds. By the End of the World, Earth has been restored to its 'classic' look, so presumably the human empire was able to rebuild it before then as a habitable planet.
** I recall the Doctor telling Rose that Captain Jack had been left behind to start rebuilding the earth.Earth. Since the Bad Wolf ended up making Jack immortal, this ended up being a good choice.









** Mostly because of the way that Rose reacted when seeing them, and Bad Wolf Rose would know that due to StableTimeLoop, so she didn't need more instructions

* Why don't the Reapers (the things from Father's Day) eat the Daleks for screwing up human history?

to:

** Mostly because of the way that Rose reacted when seeing them, and Bad Wolf Rose would know that due to StableTimeLoop, so she didn't need more instructions

instructions.
* Why don't the Reapers (the things from Father's Day) "Father's Day") eat the Daleks for screwing up human history?




* Here's a big logic failure from the Doctor. Halfway through The Parting of the Ways, just before the Doctor sends Rose back home, he casually jokes about how they could just leave. Of course they can't, obviously. Except... yes they can. Seriously, why not? He hasn't got enough time to refine the Delta Wave properly and save Earth, so why doesn't he just leave, work on it in the vortex for as long as he needs to, and come back 10 seconds after leaving, therefore able to wipe out the Daleks before the Earth invasion begins with every human saved? There is no reason - none at all - why he can't do this, and it undermines the Doctor's central dilemma so much that it really damages the episode for me. He even does this exact thing - leaving to do something else and returning moments later - in Rose, Hide, and virtually every episode of Series 8 to name just a few examples. Anyone have a plausible in-universe explanation for him not doing this in The Parting of the Ways?

to:

\n* Here's a big logic failure from the Doctor. Halfway through The "The Parting of the Ways, Ways", just before the Doctor sends Rose back home, he casually jokes about how they could just leave. Of course they can't, obviously. Except... yes they can. Seriously, why not? He hasn't got enough time to refine the Delta Wave properly and save Earth, so why doesn't he just leave, work on it in the vortex for as long as he needs to, and come back 10 seconds after leaving, therefore able to wipe out the Daleks before the Earth invasion begins with every human saved? There is no reason - none at all - why he can't do this, and it undermines the Doctor's central dilemma so much that it really damages the episode for me. He even does this exact thing - leaving to do something else and returning moments later - in Rose, Hide, "Rose", "Hide", and virtually every episode of Series 8 to name just a few examples. Anyone have a plausible in-universe explanation for him not doing this in The "The Parting of the Ways?Ways"?









** Not wishing to be rude, but did you perhaps miss the fact that the whole rest of the season explored the consequences of the Doctor basically doing what he's about to do to Earth with the Delta Wave to his home world at the end of the Time War -- and said consequences basically involved him being a haunted, shattered, guilt-ridden wreck riddled with numerous psychological issues and traumas that he's only at that point just beginning to dig himself out of? For better or worse, on some level he simply can't bring himself to basically do the same thing twice and go through all the guilt and trauma again.

to:

** Not wishing to be rude, but did you perhaps miss the fact that the whole rest of the season explored the consequences of the Doctor basically doing what he's about to do to Earth with the Delta Wave to his home world at the end of the Time War -- and said consequences basically involved him being a haunted, shattered, guilt-ridden wreck riddled with numerous psychological issues and traumas that he's only at that point just beginning to dig himself out of? For better or worse, on some level he simply can't bring himself to basically do the same thing twice and go through all the guilt and trauma again.
again.






** We don't know how long Rose was unconscious for and how long the Doctor was in the TARDIS with her after ingesting the time vortex from her. It could have been longer than we saw.

to:

** We don't know how long Rose was unconscious for and how long the Doctor was in the TARDIS with her after ingesting the time vortex Time Vortex from her. It could have been longer than we saw.


Added DiffLines:



* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race...this contradicts multiple epiosdes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage inuniverse. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists sspecifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure wether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuinty.

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* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race...this contradicts multiple epiosdes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage inuniverse.in-universe. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists sspecifically specifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure wether whether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuinty.continuity.
** Season 5's explanation of [[spoiler: the cracks in time]] may answer this.









** Or perhaps the dalek provided the power?

to:

** Or perhaps the dalek Dalek provided the power?power?



** He DID tell them that the weakness is the eye-stalk, it's just that the soldiers didn't listen (that and the dalek's protective force-field vaporized the bullets), thinking that one "tin robot" was no match for them.

to:

** He DID tell them that the weakness is the eye-stalk, it's just that the soldiers didn't listen (that and the dalek's Dalek's protective force-field vaporized the bullets), thinking that one "tin robot" was no match for them.them.












*** Or, perhaps since Rose hadn't traveled as much through time and hadn't accumulated as much Artron energy, the dalek had to absord much more beyond the energy it was after, in order to acquire enough.

to:

*** Or, perhaps since Rose hadn't traveled as much through time and hadn't accumulated as much Artron energy, the dalek Dalek had to absord absorb much more beyond the energy it was after, in order to acquire enough.enough.






** Truthfully, it seems like things that happen in the doctor's future rarely affect his past; case in point, it doesn't matter if the Dalek invasions supposedly happened in the past, at this point in the current timeline, because this has not happened to the doctor yet, it has not happened, and has no effect on these events. There is a similar explanation for [[spoiler: Trenzalore; the Doctor's "tomb" on that planet existed in a timeline where Clara Oswald had not jumped into his timestream, or convinced the Time Lords to save his life;]] therefore, we are seeing a sort of alternate timestream, or the timeline got tweaked, or something. Basically, time is always in flux.

to:

** Truthfully, it seems like things that happen in the doctor's Doctor's future rarely affect his past; case in point, it doesn't matter if the Dalek invasions supposedly happened in the past, at this point in the current timeline, because this has not happened to the doctor yet, it has not happened, and has no effect on these events. There is a similar explanation for [[spoiler: Trenzalore; the Doctor's "tomb" on that planet existed in a timeline where Clara Oswald had not jumped into his timestream, or convinced the Time Lords to save his life;]] therefore, we are seeing a sort of alternate timestream, or the timeline got tweaked, or something. Basically, time is always in flux.






*** Late to the party, but he does become a major villain in the comics.

to:

*** Late to the party, but he does become a major villain in the comics.comics, before a [[spoiler: RedemptionEqualsDeath thing]].






*** ROSE: So it's okay when you go to other times, and you save people's lives, but not when it's me saving my dad. DOCTOR: I know what I'm doing, you don't.

to:

*** ROSE: So it's okay when you go to other times, and you save people's lives, but not when it's me saving my dad. \\
DOCTOR: I know what I'm doing, you don't.






##Whenever a person transforms on screen ([[NightmareFuel terrifying btw]]) why isn't there a glowing yellow aura around them, as there was every other time the nanogenes were at work?

to:

##Whenever
*Whenever
a person transforms on screen ([[NightmareFuel terrifying btw]]) why isn't there a glowing yellow aura around them, as there was every other time the nanogenes were at work?



## Jack uses Chula nanogenes in his craft, wasn't there anyway the two groups could've mingled with each other, maybe updating each other, solving the situation that way? I know that would've ruined the TearJerker ending, but if I was an ubersmart alien that would've been my first thought.

to:

## Jack
*Jack
uses Chula nanogenes in his craft, wasn't there anyway any way the two groups could've mingled with each other, maybe updating each other, solving the situation that way? I know that would've ruined the TearJerker ending, but if I was an ubersmart alien that would've been my first thought.



























*** Where's he supposed to get a plan from? And suppose he does all that, goes to plug what he's got in, discovers something that wasn't in the plans he had that completely screws up what he's built so far, and has to start again from scratch? And since time is clearly of the essence here wouldn't it be easier and quicker just to stay on the Station and do it directly rather than working from a plan somewhere else? And given the unreliability of the TARDIS, what's the likelihood of him going to do all of this and ending up materialising halfway across the universe five centuries later?

to:

*** Where's he supposed to get a plan from? And suppose he does all that, goes to plug what he's got in, discovers something that wasn't in the plans he had that completely screws up what he's built so far, and has to start again from scratch? And since time is clearly of the essence here wouldn't it be easier and quicker just to stay on the Station and do it directly rather than working from a plan somewhere else? And given the unreliability of the TARDIS, his piloting, what's the likelihood of him going to do all of this and ending up materialising halfway across the universe five centuries later?later?



* At the end when the doctor has prepared the delta wave and is deciding whether or not to use it, why doesn't he just use it? He was listening to Lynda when she told him that the fleet was bombing whole continents. Probably at least most of humanity was killed. The survivors will be 'harvested'. As the Doctor points out earlier the human race has spread to other worlds and humanity will go on, yet these Daleks are the only ones in existence and their existence puts the whole Universe in danger. (He finds out later he was wrong but didn't know at the time.) If only the Daleks where left alive to kill with the delta wave so why was he hesitant?

to:

** Also, if the Daleks got their hands, er, suckers, on Time Lord technology, [[CaptainObvious that would be very, very bad]].

* At the end when the doctor Doctor has prepared the delta wave and is deciding whether or not to use it, why doesn't he just use it? He was listening to Lynda when she told him that the fleet was bombing whole continents. Probably at least most of humanity was killed. The survivors will be 'harvested'. As the Doctor points out earlier the human race has spread to other worlds and humanity will go on, yet these Daleks are the only ones in existence and their existence puts the whole Universe in danger. (He finds out later he was wrong but didn't know at the time.) If only the Daleks where left alive to kill with the delta wave so why was he hesitant?


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* A pretty big deal is made in this episode about first contact with an alien race...this contradicts multiple epiosdes of the Classic series where aliens quite publically invade. Torchwood tries to explain it by saying the general population are just really skeptical, but that seriously just doesn't make sense. The Ambassadors of Death had huge media coverage inuniverse. Cybermen made landings around the world in The Tenth Planet and The Invasion. The Autons in Spearhead from Space weren't exactly subtle either. Hell, even in the new series the Autons publically kill a bunch of people in the first episode. This episode features Unit! An organisation that exists sspecifically to deal with alien matters (and they're not a secret british organisation, it's an international UN force who have a logo recognisble enough that private corporations know about them)! To suggest a mutant pug that fell into the Thames is in any way more significant to the public consciousness than a dozen different events that happened in the classic series is absurd. And it doesn't even seem like it was needed for the plot. They could have just had the meeting without saying it's first contact. It simply could have been contact with an unknown alien species. Part of me thinks they went with this angle because in 2005, they weren't sure wether or not the classic series was actually in the same continuinty.


* Why didn't van Statten know about the Daleks from British reports in WW2? He does have the internet and the US government at his disposal, after all.

to:

* Why didn't van Statten know about the Daleks from British reports in WW2? [=WW2=]? He does have the internet and the US government at his disposal, after all.

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** Near-omnipotent isn't the same as 'immortal' or even 'near-immortal'. She can use her time powers on other people, but presumably not herself.


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** We don't know how long Rose was unconscious for and how long the Doctor was in the TARDIS with her after ingesting the time vortex from her. It could have been longer than we saw.

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** Blaine's purpose is not to show the Doctor that she's innocent, or that he's guilty; she just wants to mess with his head so that she can jail-break. It's a leaf straight from the Evil Overlord's Handbook: ''My enemies are typically distraught over things like death and destruction. I am not broken up over such things. I now have a weapon that can hurt them but not me. I shall use it.'' It's all a mind game.

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* During dinner Blaine confronts the Doctor, telling him "from what I've seen, your happy-go-lucky lifestyle leaves destruction in it's wake." While technically she is right, the only "destruction" she's seen the Doctor wreak is that of Downing Street, which only happened because ''Blaine and the other Slitheen were about to hijack the UK's nuclear arsenal and destroy the whole world!'' This is clearly self-defence; just how does Blaine think she can sum up the Doctor so completely based off ''one'' act of aggression that ''she herself instigated?!''

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*I've heard enough people complain that the paradox shown in 'Father's Day' caused the Reapers to appear when no paradox before or since ever has is an example of bad writing. But the thing is, the situation in 'Father's Day' is not just a paradox, it's a massive pile-up of paradoxes. To elaborate: The Doctor, a very significant space-time event, was there twice. The TARDIS, a huge space-time event, was there twice. Rose, who would later become Bad Wolf, a HUGE space-time event, was there THREE TIMES. That four paradoxes (Doctor, TARDIS, Rose x 2) in one point in space-time. Time is already at breaking point. THEN Rose changes her Father's history (another paradox) and in doing so is spotted by the past Doctor (another Paradox) and past Rose (another paradox!) That's SEVEN paradoxes all within a few moments of each other, and time simply broke underneath the weight of them all. This cluster-f*** paradoxes is a situation has never occurred again in the series, explaining why the Reapers have never reappeared.

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** It's also worth noting that he forgave her pretty quickly. In the first place, it's understandable for him to be pretty angry that she did what she did after he specifically warned her how dangerous the whole situation was. But then later on when she seems remorseful about it he asks if she's sorry, she says yes, and he smiles and says she's forgiven. It's likely that he recognizes that she now knows how bad she screwed up and there's no point being angry anymore.

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* So, to recap: Father's Day is a whole mess of "paradoxes", which, for the sake of discussion, refers to infringements of the space-time continuum. Including: Rose and the Doctor travelling back in time, (this troper has always considered any form of time travel to put some sort of strain on the space time continuum, just because the time traveler consumes precious oxygen), Rose revealing herself to a previous version of herself and the Doctor, Rose saving her father's life, and Rose touching her baby self. Any one of these "paradoxes" on their own might pass without consequence; for example, the Doctor has come in contact with previous versions of himself at least a dozen times, with seemingly very little impact on the space-time continuum. However, Rose saving her father's life is a legitimate, Webster-definition paradox- not just because it cancelled out their reason for travelling into the past, but because it cancelled out that previous version of themselves. Pile these paradoxes all together, and then remember that the Time Lords aren't there to monitor the space time continuum, (however it is they do that,) and you've got a mess, and the universe get cranky.


** The car appears to be 'following' Pete in order to try and put the timeline back on track, so since Pete is currently in the church, the car phases in and out around the church.

to:

** The car appears to be 'following' Pete in order to try and put the timeline back on track, so since Pete is currently in the church, the car phases in and out around the church. Presumably history is being 'edited' slightly so as to always put that car in a position where it would run into Pete Tyler at some point, wherever Pete Tyler might be.

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