History Headscratchers / DissidiaFinalFantasy

** Garland did all that while [[spoiler:being used as a weapon by Lufenia. He had the powers of Chaos at the time, allowing him to defeat Omega and banish it to the Rift.]] by the time your party in FFI comes around, [[spoiler:he has killed you, become Chaos, created the Fiends of Chaos from the crystals of the past, and wiped his own memory. As he says at the end of FFI, he does this so that you will kill him, allowing the Fiends of Chaos to send him backward in time to where he becomes Chaos.]]

*** [[{{Gundam}} Mobile Suit Prima Vista]]?

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Why Tifa? She is in no way shape or form a main character of Final Fantasy VII in the same way and the rest of the new comers , Lightning is the main character of Final Fantasy XIII, Vaan is Technically the main charicter of XII though the argument could be made that Balthier or Basch is, Laguna is the main character for half of VIII, X is equaly Yuna's story as it is Tidus', Kain gets the justification of being a fan favorite so, Why not Zach or Vincent people who get there own games?

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* How could Chaos be a driving force behind this game's plot if Garland IS Chaos (In FF 1 anyway)? The game seems to treat the two as completely separate entities which contradicts FF 1's plot. So we either have a {{Retcon}} or the writers got it wrong.

*** This is what I figure. After Chaos was defeated by the Warriors of Light, he decided to get revenge, and being a master of exploiting the StableTimeLoop, bootstrapped himself into a god. Then he got the time-traveling Ultimecia to meet up with Garland and they gathered up the rest of the villains [[spoiler: and Gabranth]] and the rest just fell in place. Essentially, Chaos was playing [[TimeyWimeyBall Blitzball with time.]]
**** Remeber there are TWO Final Fantasy I worlds, world (A) and world (B). The Chaos from the Dissidia games is form world (B), you could say he was the "insperation" for the Chaos of world (A).
**** Chaos and Garland are two separate beings, Chaos was just possessing/manipulating Garland. Garland even stays a good guy after the time loop is fixed in FF 1.
***** They are seperate, but they are the same guy, just taken from different times. Garland says as much in Shade Impulse.

*** That bugged me too. However, they seem to be treating Chaos as a God... which would put him on the same level as half the bad guys, so more of a God. Perhaps Garland, as he is in Dissidia is some kind of high priest of Chaos? You'd also have to reconcile how Cosmos fits in.
**** From my understanding of the plot Chaos had brought 10 villains from the FinalFantasy multiverse, meaning its not the same Chaos as the one from FF I. Cosmos has countered by bringing the heroes. To bad they are not bringing out the guys from FF XII.
***** [[spoiler:Dude, they managed to find playable representation of the [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXI Final Fantasy MMORPG]] for Dissidia. I sure SOMEONE from VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII is going to find his way into this mess.]]
****** [[spoiler: Judge Gabranth just showed up and he is AWESOME!]]
** A fanfic this troper read (yes, this is hardly WordOfGod, but it's just speculation) posited that each FinalFantasy BigBad acted as an agent of Chaos, which the fic presented as some kind of evil PowersThatBe. Hence why almost all of them ended up being a nihilistic OmnicidalManiac or were all along. Kind of like how [[spoiler: each BigBad in SailorMoon turned out be an aspect of Chaos, the BigBad of the universe]].
** [[spoiler: Everyone who posted to the above ought to go [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/psp/file/939394/55511 here]] and read the whole thing. Chaos / Garland IS addressed, and in an ...unexpected way.]]
** Report 12, told from Garland's POV, reveals that [[spoiler: Garland was freed from Final Fantasy's StableTimeLoop and brought to World B by Shinryu]] and encountered Cid, Cosmos, and Dissidia's Chaos, who he named after his own OneWingedAngel:

** More Specifically, it is the concept art of what I assume is the Fighter or Knight class, drawn by Yoshitaka Amano and given 3D life for FinalFantasyOrigins. Since the NES couldn't possibly display that kind of color or detail, they simplified the design and changed the predominant color from blue to red so they would have an equal number of blue and red classes.
*** Fighter is his alt costume. The different costumes for the characters from I-VI are in two categories: Original concepts/ Nomura re-imaginings.

* Why is Golbez the villain representing VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV and not Zemus/Zeromus? All the other villains were the BigBad of their games be Golbez was just TheDragon who was never really evil but BrainwashedAndCrazy.

*** Seymour was a side villain, the point of the whole quest from Tidus and Co.'s perspective for most of the game was to find a way to stop Sin, Seymour was just a unwanted obstacle. Jecht isn't evil but he is Sin, who as already mentioned is the monster you spend a large portion of the game trying to defeat. Him being Tidus' dad helps.

*** Come up with a moveset for Yu Yevon please.

*** Yeah, he didn't really accomplish much, for a villain. Sure, he killed off most of the Ronso, but you don't rven get to see that.
** Golbez was the main antagonist for like 99.9 percent of the game. Seriously when people think of ''[=FF4=]'' villains, I'm pretty sure Golbez is the first guy that comes to mind, not Zemus. Golbez is a pretty prominent figure throughout FF 4, what with him getting lots of screen time, is built up as a major threat, and most of all, has a VERY obvious personal connection with ''[=FF4=]'''s main character, Cecil. Zemus has no real connection to Cecil, and barely has any presence in the game. You don't even get a chance to legitimately face him; [=FuSoYa=] and Golbez do that for you. In general, he's pretty forgettable.
*** You could argue that the same applies to Ultimecia who, again like Zemus, was barely in FFVIII. What seperates them is characterization though. Ultimecia was always a constant, albeit unseen, threat whereas Zemus was more of a GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere character. To be fair to Zemus, though, what you said isn't completely true. The party does face him right at the end of the game, and he '''has''' a connection to Cecil through Golbez, but therein lies the problem. It's extremely obvious why Zemus wasn't used. The first reason is the one fans always cite and the most obvious in that Golbez has a direct personal connection to Cecil but what many fans don't mention, but is also obvious, is that Zemus is a monster and would be pretty hard to program a moveset for, as has been previous mentioned with Yu Yevon for ''[=FFX=]''.

**** Plus, Ultimecia had direct contol of those she was influencing. Squall didn't fight a brainwashed Edea or get tossed around by brainwashed Rinoa, that was Ultimecia wearing their shells. On the other hand, Golbez was himself the whole time, just brainwashed to be evil.

** Apparently this was also due to Nomura wanting to use Amano's original design for [=CoD=] in a game because he thought it was a shame it wasn't used in FFIII.

**** So he's pretty much a proto-Ultimecia? Well, that right there explains why he wouldn't be used. Why include a villain whose similar to one you're already using but inferior in every aspect?

** They probably just decided to use ares that they felt lent themselves to more interesting stages. For example: the Void Castle is full of towers, landings, and messed-up geometries that serve as great obstacles during a fight, whereas the Big Bridge is just a big... bridge, it's kind of static and doesn't make for a lot of good cover or room for lateral movement. Also, [=ZoZo=]? Really?

** That's your gripe? Onion Knight is worse, depending on what version of FF III you prefer he's either supposed to be the all around weakest character or the all around strongest, but instead he's a FragileSpeedster. Though since their abilities aren't really part of the plot square could have done anything(as long as the characters are playable) and we'd have to roll with it. Cecil's class changing is another case (though it makes sense plot wise for his original game).
*** Except for Goblin Punch, Bartz's build is perfectly doable in FF V, and is, in fact the most well known (and arguably his strongest). The fact that he has the addition of a ''single'' command that breaks it is what bugs me, far more than if it was just completely out of game mechanics, because it comes so close to being perfectly doable. Onion Knight is another big problem, but at least his Ninja and Sage forms make sense.
**** You shouldn't think about the "EX mode" build, but rather the "EX Burst" build. In EX mode he gains another HP attack. Big thing. He also has a bunch of other moves like Holy and Flare he shouldn't be able to use without Black Magic and White Magic. The thing is, when he does his ''EX Burst'', he uses a build that ''IS'' completely possible in the original game, because then we are not counting Goblin Punch. I see it as simple as that.

** RuleOfFunny

*** Actually, no. In Dissidia, there is no seperate attack stat for magic and physical strikes. Attack is Attack is Attack. An attack boost from a sword is the same as an attack boost from a staff, rod, or ''bell''.

** GamePlayStorySegregation. The equipment, from the perspective of the story, doesn't exist; it's only for the player to tinker with. It's the same reason that none of the characters' models change based on equipment; Sephiroth always weilds the Masamune even if you haven't got him equipped with it, for example.

* Terra's treatment in the story mode's opening just bugs me. The other nine heroes get show various levels of {{badass}}ery. Even the [[BrattyHalfPint Onion Knight]]. Terra deflects a spell and has to be rescued. She may have her timidness from the beginning of her own game, but even then she wasn't averse to setting something on fire if it threatened her. Would it really have been so difficult for them to show of some of her magic? She has Holy, Meteor, Meltdown, and Ultima. Even if they didn't want to show skills the characters have to learn, she still has Fire, Blizzara, Flood, and Tornado to work with. No matter what, she has more than enough magic for them to have shown her in a proper mage duel with Kefka, Golbez, Ultimecia, or Kuja.

** Only Warrior of Light, Terra, and Zidane get to the main fight without getting hit or knocked away at least once. She teleported to try and get some breathing room; there were too many spells flying around for her to put up a real offensive. See also the opening cinematic, where Terra singlehandedly reflects a full slavo of magic missiles from Ultimecia. Though, I do admit that the other heroes [[HeroicResolve standing up after those attacks]] makes them look a lot more BadAss.
*** That's what bugs me. That's '''ALL''' she does. There's no reason why she couldn't have been shown using some of her own magic. At the very least she could have been shown launching a fireball at Ultimecia before needing to be rescued from Mateus' trap. At least it's a consolation that in game she demonstrates how BadAss a SquishyWizard can be, but that makes the CutsceneIncompetence in the opening more jarring.
*** To be fair we dont see the entire fight for the next thing we see is squall and sephiroth in mid battle.
*** That and we see about ''five seconds'' of each character in the opening. They don't have time for much. And deflect magic missiles isn't showing off Terra's magical prowess? Not to mention that all the deflected missiles aren't just scattered, but '''''redirected to another Warrior of Chaos'''''.

*** [[SarcasmMode Yeah because Bartz totally looked stronger clinging for dear life while Exdeath held the void out. And Onion Knight was so]] BadAss [[SarcasmMode the way he was launched by the Emperor's traps.]]

*** They weren't trying to take her hostage in the opening. I've already stated that it's her treatment in the opening that bothers me, not her treatment ingame.

** And another thing about Terra; in her story mode, Kefka basically tells her she's nothing but a force for distruction, like ''him''. Coupled with the fact that her powers seemed to be going out of control, I think she's allowed to be scared and upset.
*** My issue is not with her ingame personality. My issue is that in the opening she was made to look almost helpless when even in the begining of her own game she was anything but.
*** I beg to differ on that last point. Remember when she got hopelessly cornered in the Narshe Mines and Locke had to rescue her? After her amnesia took hold, she was very vulnerable, scared and confused. Much like Destiny Oddessy VI, now that I think about it.

*** Actually, after playing Kuja for a bit. I suspect that the spell-balls are programed as Kuja's "physical" attacks, so, therefore, he gets the standard physical attack stagger when he's blocked.
*** Or perhaps he's not physically linked to the orbs but ''psychically'' linked; both him and Shantotto react the same way when they're blocked (well, Shantotto's aerial boomerang staff attack) so maybe blocking those attacks has some effect on their link and they suffer a "backlash" of sorts... not sure if I'm making any sense...

** I could pretty much be the need for a name. In the game, as far as I remember, only Cloud of Darkness refered to him as Onion Knight, but only once. And any time Terra mentioned him, he refered to him as "that boy", which on the long run ends up feeling awkward. Warrior of Light has a justification, he doesn't know his own name, but Onion Knight doesn't have anything like that, so shouldn't it be that he ''must'' have a name and not just a tittle? That much anyone can assume, and when looking for a name, what better than the one given to the main character from the ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'' remake? Sure, maybe Dissidia's Onion Knight isn't the remake's Luneth, but does it hurt to give him that proper name as well?
*** Yes, it is akward, and it gives me trouble when I write fanfics, I'll admit. But it still doesn't make him Luneth. Luneth is a ''completly different character'' than the Onion Knight, with a completly different characterization.

*** But they do. There's way too much fanart and fanfics out there that treat his alt costume as if it were his canon appearence. I want to see stuff with ''Onion'' for a change.

*** To be fair, Luneth does have a personality. He's kind of like Bartz minus the latter's CharacterDevelopment; while Arc is cowardly but growing, Refia is rebellious, and Ingus is a loyal knight. Luneth is more "Hey, adventure, cool beans."
*** Yeah, and The Onion Knight is sort of a know-it-all brat.

*** It's a ContinuityNod, plain and simple. For those who aren't familiar with the story in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX'', one of the main villains in ''IX'' (not counting Kuja or [[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere Necron]]) is a BadassGrandpa named... wait for it... '''Garland'''. It is Garland who [[TheReveal reveals Kuja's origin as a genome (and an inferior one at that)]]. The revelation from being the FlawedPrototype to Zidane, ''[[GrimReaper The Angel of Death]]'' (and the AntiAntichrist) causes Kuja to experience his VillainousBreakdown, which in turn causes Kuja to become... er... [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Kuja, Destroyer of Terra]]. Thus, the whole Garland vs. Kuja thing (as is all of ''Dissidia'') is a nod to ''Final Fantasy''. Garland's own quote ("I sense you are haunted by your fate") even references Kuja's fear of dying alone and his role as an imperfect Angel of Death. furthermore, he and Zidane have some choice words for each other when ''they'' have fights. Garland says "I will erase you, and your soul!" as a reference to the part in IX where Garland was going to take back the soul he gave Zidane. In return, Zidane will say "This place will be your grave!", or something like that; apparently sort of referencing a line where he says that he is the angel of ''Garland's'' death.

* Even though ''[=FFX=]'' is more of an ensemble cast then previous ones, it bugs me Tidus/Jecht were chosen for FFX and not Yuna/Seymour. I admit that the two of them do "fit" as the hero and villain, and that Tidus is one of the more major characters for ''[=FFX=]'', and that their storyline in game was intresting. But it feels that Yuna fit more. For the good majority of the game, it focuses on Yuna. Her journey, her struggle, her sacrifice etc. and Tidus is just along for the journey. Tidus and Jecht being the FFX representatives makes sense, but Yuna is a better candidate. Plus it would help to balance her heroes out more (both in terms of might over magic and in male-female ratio) and it would have added in an interesting play style (what with her white magic and even possibility to use Lulu's black magic as well).
** Yuna's shtick in ''[=FFX=]'' is summoning. It would not have transfered over very well into the game where several of the summons are part of another game mechanic, and have vastly different effects. It'd be impossible to give her a move-set for the game without going into X-2 for it. And Seymour isn't impressive as a villain compared to Jecht, and would only add another anoying omnicidal maniac to the villain's lineup.

*** Besides, Yuna's in ''Duodecim'', now, anyway.

* The fact that Ultimicia was the villainous representative from ''[=FFVIII=]'' bothered This Troper partially because, like Zemus, she isn't known as the BigBad for long enough to be identified with the game like Kefka, Sephiroth, etc..., and partially because there is, to This Troper's mind, a much better candidate: Seifer. While, yes, this would screw with the male/female and magic/might ratios even more, and even though, technically, he was only TheDragon, he fought you so hard and so often that he would have been a much better antagonist for Squall.
** Actually, [[FridgeBrilliance if you think about]], Ultemicia ''was'' the BigBad long enough, since everything Edea says and does up until TheReveal is basically Ultemicia speaking/acting through Edea.
** Not to mention bringing up TheRival for Squall would potentially come off as repetitive in comparison to Sephiroth and Cloud. Besides, what motivation could you give him since he had been mostly manipulated and mind-controlled during the events of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII''? He's fighting Squall to see who ends up with Rinoa? Yeah, talk about making the villain into a joke. I, for one, am happy that they decided to take a less popular and character and expand it, even if just a little, portraying Ultimencia as having a bit of FoeYay with Squall, and some comments that make her seem like a WellIntentionedExtremist. That's without mentioning she's much more powerful than Seifer or Edea or ANY other antagonist of her game, so why would Chaos pick anyone else instead of her?

** Squall flat out said that Seifer wasn't anything special to him in terms of being a enemy. Compare this with how acted towards Ultimecia in general and you can see Ulti was Squall's main rival.

*** Well if Ultimecia wielding Rinoa's weapons makes them the same person [[SarcasmMode so I guess this proves my Garnet=Kuja and Tidus=Wakka theories correct.]]
Ultimecia is from the future remember? Rinoa probably went down in history for her role so many future sorceresses could have looked up to her and used the same sort of weapons out of respect and admiration. Which could mean there was some serious irony in Ultimecia becoming the big bad Squall, Rinoa and the rest brought down.

** Of differing category. Chaos and Cosmos are in charge of Light and Darkness. The Warring Triad, by contrast, is in charge of magic. They have different portfolios. As for comparative levels of divinity, who the smeg knows. They may not even be the same ''type'' of gods- one may be anthropomorphic personifications of a concept, whereas the other may simply be of a creator-species that is so far above man as to be deemed a god.

* Something odd about the progression of events. the order that the Destiny Odyssey cutscenes are shown in the Theatre mode is canon, with each cutscene shown in chronological order (which creates a lot of overlapping and dipping into other stories). But one scene just bugs me. So; Firion is attacked by Sephiroth, who steals his Wild Rose. Cloud fights Sephiroth and takes the rose back from him; with the intention of returning it to Firion. That's fine. But in one scene, Cloud meets with Terra, and shows him the Wild Rose; but in the ''immediate next cutscene'', we have the start of Destiny Odyssey II, with Firion producing the Wild Rose himself. This happens in between Destiny Odyssey VI cutscenes, while Cloud (who still has the Wild Rose) is travelling with Terra, looking for Onion Knight. So how the smeg did Firion get his Rose back for that cutscene? Are there two of them? If so, why would he care, to the point of fighting Sephiroth until he was down on one knee from exhaustion, about getting back the one that Sephiroth stole?
** If you're refering to that scene where Firion and Tidus are taking a break, I think that Firion is NOT materializing the Wild Rose. He's just remembering it, and the game show it to us to show us what he's thinking, but I believe the "animation" for the rose to appear is different from any other time. He's just remembering the Wild Rose as if wondering, "Where did it go?" and then he realizes it must have been during that fight against Sephiroth.
* Okay, while I was squeeing over various pieces of merch, [[FridgeLogic it hit me]]. Cosmos is not just another word for the universe, but we derived it from the greek word which is [[BuffySpeak opposite of chaos]], whether you call it "Law," "Order," or just "Non-chaos." I don't think there's more than three of the Cosmos Champions are non ChaoticGood. Why are, among other things, a rebel, a free spirit, at least two terrorists, a thief, and various others who have probably had their faces on wanted posters at some point in their stories fighting for the personification of the force which oppresses their nature? (Okay, yeah, I know, it's a Good v. Evil thing that wasn't expecting people to catch any of the Gratuitous Latin and Greek, but it still is kind of strange to me.)
** Since when did a thief or a terrorrist have to be free spirited? Just because they are breaking the law doesn't mean they are against Order . You are confusing being "Lawful" (a ''DungeonsAndDragons'' term) with being on the side of "Order".

** Who knows, maybe the producers originally did intend for things to different to the final result. Earlier Trailer had scenes with the villains saying things that suggested that Cosmos wasn't good either, and even Warrior of Light seemed to be aware of it. So perhaps the game, as originally intended, might have allowed you to choose your side.
** And now that I mention that, weren't the original promotional material of Dissidia claiming that you could actually pick the side of Cosmos or the side of Chaos, suggesting you would also be able to play a Story Mode with the Villains? (Now, wouldn't that be awesome?)
** Overall, I personally believe there were some abandoned ideas in the final result of the project that was Dissidia, resulting in a story much more simplier. But of course, this is all expeculation.

** More importantly, these are not ''Dungeons and Dragons'' characters and there is more to these characters than their presumed alignment. Remember, the Final Fantasy series never actually used the ''Dungeons and Dragons'' alignment so there is no reason to assume that "Character X from Show X is for sure alignment Y, so X can't do Y" unless the writers ''actually'' use them. This means that characters like Cloud have no canonical alignment so saying that he can't do something that seems to be contraticting to that alignment you interpreted would be wrong, it just means that perhaps you need to reinterpret that alignment you gave to him. In an extreme example,if you say that a presumed KnightInShiningArmour is LawfulGood, that does not mean that in situation X he can't go around murdeing innocent people for money, it just means that in this case you need to reinterpret his alignment to ChaoticEvil. Similarily but less dramatically, if you assume an psychopath who wants nothing more than to kill people for pleasure to be ChaoticEvil it does not mean he can't be willing to take orders from someone else it just means that in that hypothetical scenario you need to reinterpret the psychopath's alignment to be NeutralEvil.
*** Yes, exactly. To take a specific example of how character alignment can change within one game: in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'' Squall and the rest of the SeeDs start off Lawful Good, are imprisoned and chased by officers of the law several times throughout the game, and pretty much end up Lawful/Neutral Good again at the end when the authorities give them the blessing to go and stop Ultimecia. For another, Cecil starts off as Lawful Evil in FFIV and quickly becomes Neutral Good. In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX'' Tantalus manages to be both Chaotic Good and Lawful Good at the same time by engaging in thievery and kidnapping under Cid's orders. There is nothing straightforward about the heroic characters' development in any of the post-III games (and this also goes for a few of those in the first three, like Leon) aside from the fact they essentially have and fulfill the potential to fight for good.
*** Um... Firstly... Kidnapping is Evil. Secondly the point I was trying to make is that these characters ''technically'' have no alignment by virtue of not being D&D characters-in other words for example, Cloud "being" ChaoticGood is just an opinion, not fact as different people have different ideas of what characters from works not canonically using alignments have what alignment- See Batman for an obvious example of someone who's alignment is being argued and usually whether or not Batman is considered Lawful, Neutral or ChaoticGood depends on how you interpret his character as well as how you interpret alignments to mean.

* A joke fan-made screenshot made it seem like Lightning from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'' was going to be in this game. It wasn't true of course, but it leads me to an interesting question: Why isn't Lightning in this game? It would have been an awesome secret character, and a nice taste of the plot and battle system of ''FFXIII''. Instead we have... well nobody. [[spoiler: Off topic, and purely my own fanwankery but the game also needed Balthier.]]

* The Chocobo Accessories are the Down, Wing and Feather. Going by what the terms actually mean, "down" (soft feathers of young birds) makes sense as the weakest, but why is an ''entire wing'' not as effective as a lone feather?

** The shop exist purely for gameplay function. After all, no matter what you equip on the characters, it never changes what they are wielding. Even if you equip Lionheart in Squall, he only wields it in Ex-Mode. So in short, the shop is something totally non-existant in the "story" of the game.

* At the risk of sounding like a Shipper, why was Terra paired with Onion Knight in Destiny Odyssey? Or more accurately, if Squeenix was trying to mimic the opening of ''[=FFVI=]'' and needed a Locke-expy, why didn't they use Zidane? Zidane's [[ChivalrousPervert womanizing]] was practically his defining trait for the first half of ''[=FFIX=]'', so you'd expect him to have at least a few words for [[TheSmurfettePrinciple the only playable female on their side]]. But instead, [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot all we see of it in Dissidia is a throwaway line towards Cosmos]]. If he and Onion Knight switched positions, it would've made the comparisons between that storyline and ''=FFVI=]'' much stronger (it could even work both ways if you pictured Terra as a stand-in for Garnet). Onion Knight's cautious intelligence would've [[RedOniBlueOni contrasted nicely]] with Bartz' free-spirited impulsiveness, as well, so it's not like Zidane needed to be where he was, either. It feels like so much more could have been done if they had just switched those two characters.
** Well, shipping-wise, Zidane is HappilyMarried, or at least engaged. He's working with Bartz simply because their personalities are quite similar; if they met in ''any'' circumstances they'd be fast friends (not like that. Don't you pervs know the meaning of the word friendship?) As for plot reasons... Onion Knight's story needed an innocent civillian-type for him to develop a backbone about protecting; if he had been with Bartz, he would have been reliant on Bartz by default right up until the end of his story rather than evolving over the course of the story into a pillar of strength for the partner to rely on.

** Well, switching the roles of Zidane and Onion Knight personally sounds like a good idea to me. Squall interacting with Onion Knight instead of Zidane could also have served to bring a ShoutOut to Squall's own childhood traumas. [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot But what's done is done]]. At any rate, I ''think'' that the reason Terra and Onion Knight were paired is because they are from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'' and ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', the later which first arrived to America as VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII, so I think we probably got a reference to that right there.

** [[MostAnnoyingSound Because, for some completely unknown reason, they changed it for "I'll crush you!"]] not being cheesy also isn't a justification, as The Emperor and his "Ungahh!" [[SoBadItsGood is just]]..

** Well, he IS pimarily a mage-like character.

** Someone who noticed that last time, they had a full party of backup? Its made pretty clear that even in the "multiple cycles of Chaos and Cosmos" war, this is pretty much the first time they've fought one-one-one, due to the requirements of Crystal-getting.

*** Maybe. The bodies are all new, provided for them by Chaos and Cosmos[[hottip:*: the manikins are the rejects]], but the souls are wandering spirits Chaos and Cosmos found. Its left ambiguous if the spirits are echos of people yet to be, the souls of the dead, or the spirits of those from other worlds. It could be the same characters before their games began, it could be the same characters having adventures in their sleep, it could be clones the real characters are unaware of, etc. The relevant Reports are infuriatingly vague; even the wise ones in-story aren't entirely certain where they got the souls from.


* How come Golbez is on Chaos's Side? He's clearly working for Cosmos the entire time: helping the heroes get their Crystals and all. Golbez is the most obvious double-agent ever. And also, why does he need to fight Cecil? THEY'RE ON THE SAME SIDE!!! THEY HAVE THE SAME GOAL!! And they don't just fight once - they fight like three times! There is nothing to fight about! Nothing! What's to stop Golbez from simply switching sides and taking kicking Chaos's face in? Is he that concerned with what side of the box art he's been placed on? This is stupid!
** Because he's based on the game. And in the game Golbez and Cecil are enemies until near the ending, then they become allies (though Golbez believing he is beyond redemption). And even though he may help the warriors of Cosmos, that doesn't neccesarily mean he's aligned with Chaos (Jecht also helps the warriors of Cosmos and was even formerly fought for her). It's entirely possible that he was more antagonistic towards Cecil and wanted to destroy him but got redeemed in one of the past battles. Please at least do SOME research before you start trashing a character in a crossover.

** Because Luneth wasn't in the original version of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'', and therefore is not a suitable representative. The original game stared four unnamed youths dressed up as Onion Knights, thus the ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'' representative hero is an unnamed youth dressed as an Onion Knight. Still, since Onion Knight, and Warrior of Light for that matter, have no default name, you can call them Luneth and [[Webcomic/EightBitTheater Fighter McWarrior]] respectively if you really want to...

** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'', while the playable characters are a lot more developed than ever before, the game is still pretty short and low on character development compared to those that follow. Obviously Cecil (along with Kain) had the most character development in the original game as is, but imo, it would have been nicer to have a little more of it. Specifically the two things that could have been interesting to see would have been Cecil before he attacked Mysidia (you could have observed the atmosphere in Baron before the mission, controlled him during the invasion there, and more slowly seen the doubts forming in him about the king. Cecil turns good ridiculously quickly- 15 minutes into gameplay, really?- and I found that jarring) and to see more of his thoughts on Golbez and his ancestry. Maybe there could have been a sidequest about the latter. Anyway, my point is that due to tech constraints or it simply not occurring to the developers, this is missing from the original game. I think they realized opportunities for development of Cecil's character were missed then, and decided to try and make up for it in Dissidia by giving his relationship with Golbez a more central role. It looks a bit random if you played the original game because he had no idea about Golbez being his brother until the last minute and had a very muted reaction, but still, there is more potential there than there would have been if Zemus had been put on the opposing team.

** There is one cutscene in 012 that Golbez, while thinking to himself says Cecil remembers that they are brothers but can't remember that they were also enemies (because of the whole lost memories and fight to regain them thing), and since Golbez wants to walk the path to redemption this disturbs him. You can see it as Cecil only rembembers the "good" side of Golbez not the "bad" it's probabbly why Golbez is so highly represented in his mind.

** Same way [[spoiler: [[Series/DoctorWho Amy Pond]]]] continued exist after her parents fell through the crack in her wall. Chunks have been clipped out of history without anything new scrawled in to replace 'em.
** Because he still does. ''Nothing'' in the game indicates that anyone has ceased to exist ''in their own games'' In fact, in the 13th cycle, Cloud, Tidus and Squall ''all still remember'' Tifa, Yuna and Laguna enough to recognize the manikins in their image. And it's memories of their worlds, not the 12th cycle.
** You're right that they didn't cease to exist ''in their own games''. Yet, In terms of the Dissidia universe and the FF worlds in said universe: ''they have ceased to exist''. Once the 13th cycle ends [[spoiler: they will not return to their original worlds. Likewise, Squall presumably disappears since he no longer has a father. My guess is that it was a delayed reaction due to being in "the eye of the storm".]]
** [[spoiler: Actually, in the character descriptions it says that all those who were killed by Manikins were brought back after the last cycle due to Cosmos finally winning.]]


* If [[spoiler: being defeated by a manikin makes you {{Ret Gone}}d from the War of Chaos and Cosmos]], why doesn't that happen for the people defeated by [[spoiler: Warrior of Light, if [=WoL=] is just a ''really'' high-quality manikin]]?

*** That seems likely. I don't think the ability to negate the gods ability to summon you is an innate ability of the manikins, but more a side effect of them not really playing by the rules of the game.

* Why did [=WoL=] seem to lose his memories of the 12th cycle if [[spoiler:he actually ''survived'' the cycle? (the only Warrior of Cosmos to do so, in fact)]]

* So what happened to Prishe? All the other secret characters are given reasons for no longer taking part in the war (Shantoto eventually decided the war was beneath her and left to research her "Ultimate Spell", Gabranth went into hiding after losing to Shantoto and eventually landed a job as Hell's gatekeeper, and Gilgamesh is still wandering from world to world via the Rift), but what about her? Did Shinryu just decide one cycle to just send her home?

*** Scenario 000 revealed [[spoiler: that those who can no longer give their strength or memories to Shinryu are either erased or sent away by him and not brought back into the conflict. So it's possible that she outlived her usefulness if she wasn't brought back.]]

* What was up with the advertising for Duodecim claiming it would have a campaign for the Chaos warriors when it...y'know...doesn't? 000 doesn't count since it can be ''any'' five characters with no bearing on the story, and the Reports don't count since not only are they really just little snippets highlighting interesting goings-on in various cycles rather than a full cohesive story arc, you're playing Cosmos warriors in them as often as you are Chaos warriors.

* So wait... [[spoiler: all the new characters technically die at the end? That seems like kind of a rip off. Why couldn't they just have this take place in a cycle after the first game instead of before or something like that? Gameplay wise it doesn't mean anything, but I'm a fan of storytelling, so it just kind of bothers me, it seems like it's the designers' way of saying "oh crap we forgot this is a prequel, better get rid of these guys".]] I mean, it couldn't be done otherwise due to the way that it was written, but I'm sure they could've thought of something.
** Because it was already established that certain characters had already switched sides, and it would make the heroes side horribly unbalanced due to them having kept Terra, Tidus and Cloud along witht eh other new 6. Also as shown in the final story, the 13th was the last cycle (Cid got trapped in parallel world where it didn't end)
* On an entirely different note, the ending music from the first game has bits of music from each character's game. For FFVI's bit, they have...Cyan's theme? Cyan isn't even in Dissidia. His theme is a great piece of music, but it hardly represents FFVI. Since Terra's the one in the game, why not play her theme?

* I think it's been asked before, but what is the exact relationship between Garland and Chaos in the Dissidia series? In Dissidia, Garland explicitly states that he and Dissidia's Chaos are the same being, and that after the heroes defeat him he was sent back in time to become Chaos himself - as he did in Final Fantasy 1. Dissidia 012 seemingly averts this by having Chaos be an artificial bioweapon creaded by Cid of the Luftian hundreds of years prior to the events of Final Fantasy 1. From what I've been able to understand, Garland's monologue in Report 12 indicates that he was freed from the Garland --> Final Fantasy 1 Chaos time loop by [[spoiler: Shinryu]] and brought to World B to corrupt Dissidia Chaos, who he empathized with due to the time loop in Final Fantasy 1, and that he named Dissidia Chaos after his own OneWingedAngel form. Further muddying the issue, it is stated by Penelo in Garland's 012 equipment profile that his 3rd alt. is actually what he looks like under his armour, lending credit to the Garland = Dissidia Chaos = Final Fantasy 1 Chaos theory. Another question is that if the Warrior of Light was born during the Dissidia games, how did Garland know who he was when he and Prishe came across him, but I read someewhere that WordofGod stated that [[TimeyWimeyBall Garland was taken after his defeat at the hands of the Warrior, while the final cutscene sets the stage for the beginning of Final Fantasy 1.]]
* Stage Destructibility! God it's awesome and fun to smash MalevolentArchitecture to pieces! And you can do it to the palace of hell, the core of the planet, lunar rock formations, shrines to ancient hideous gods--almost everywhere! ...But one of the places that lacks destructible elements is the MS Prima Vista...which is a ''stage prop castle''. I can smash up the crystal world at the end of creation, but not a cheap fake castle? Buh?

*** In real life ship terminology "MS" stands for "Motor Ship" so given the setting, here it likely stands for "Mist Ship".

* So why does Cecil shift between Dark Knight and Paladin? I see it's a nice moveset but really it has no basis in the original game and pretty much all his Dark Knight attacks are made up except Soul Eater. What I would have expected would be Cecil having Gabranth's EX Mode depended fighting style. Have Dark Knight as his base class and Paladin as his easy to access EX Mode. After all Kain's EX Mode is his Paladin equivalent class with the same story based reason for obtaining it. That kind of implies Kain's EX Mode is the equivalent of Cecil's base class.

** There is one cutseen in 012 that Golbez, while thinking to himself says Cecil remembers that they are brothers but can't remember that they were also enemies (because of the whole lost memories and fight to regain them thing), and since Golbez wants to walk the path to redemption this disturbs him. You can see it as Cecil only rembembers the "good" side of Golbez not the "bad" it's probabbly why Golbez is so highly represented in his mind.

*** Scenario 000 revealed [[spoiler: that those who can no longer give their strength or memories to Shinryu are erased by him and not brought back into the conflict. So it's possible that she outlived her usefulness if she wasn't brought back.]]

** There is one cutsceen in 012 that Golbez says Cecil remembers that they are brothers but don't remembered that they were enemies (because of the whole lost memories and regain them thing), and since Golbez wants to walk the redemption path this disturbs him. You can see it as Cecil only rembember the "good" side of Golbez not the "bad" it's probabbly why Golbez is so high represented on his mind.

** Well, there IS BigBrotherComplex, but that's undergoing some tinkering...

**** Dude, Tidus lead the team at the end of the game, spurred the party to break Sin's cycle, and gave his life to save Spira. What about that isn't heroic?
**** The reason Auron isn't in Dissidia is because then it'd be possible to have an Auron vs. Jecht fight, [[MemeticMutation and the ensuing badass would consume the universe.]]
**** But c'mon, who ''wouldn't'' want to risk it? Hell, I ''like'' Tidus' and Jecht's path and I still think that fighting Jecht with Auron would be mind-blowingly awesome. I hold out hope for the inevitable remake/sequel.
**** Auron was not the main character in X. It's about the main characters, not the ones who are most popular. And, really, why should Square care what you think?
***** Obviously because we know better. Duh.
**** Auron was a super character when you got him in X. I thought you were going to lose him after a while.

**** That what's makes the crossover fun, though

* How could Chaos be a driving force behind this game's plot if Garland IS Chaos (In FF 1 anyway)? The game seems to treat the two as completely separate entities which contradicts FF 1's plot. So we either have a {{Retcon}} or the writers {{Did Not Do The Research}}.

** Onion Knight is the one who runs from fights. Bartz is merely [[MetalGear on a sneaking mission]].

* [[WordofGod SE]] already jossed the [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII "Ultimecia=Rinoa]] [[WildMassGuessing Theory,"]] so why are Utly's exclusive weapons based on Rinoa's? Are they taking a page from TiteKubo?

** That and again, most memorable villain from the game. Xande was the main villain for much of the game, but he was pretty damn lame. The Cloud of Darkness [[HopelessBossFight knocked the fuck out of]] the four kids in the first round with her (in the DS version, at least; I haven't played the NES version), is a mostly-naked woman[[NoGender (?)]], and is the SealedEvilInACan. Much more notable than a bitchy mage.

** Since when did a thief or a terrorrist have to be free spirited? Just because they are breaking the law doesn't mean they are against Order . You are confusing being "Lawful"(A DnD term) with being on the side of "Order"

** More importantly, these are not [=DnD=] characters and there is more to these characters than their presumed alignment. Remember, the Final Fantasy series never actually used the [=DnD=] alignment so there is no reason to assume that "Character X from Show X is for sure alignment Y, so X can't do Y" unless the writers ''actually'' use them. This means that characters like Cloud have no canonical alignment so saying that he can't do something that seems to be contraticting to that alignment you interpreted would be wrong, it just means that perhaps you need to reinterpret that alignment you gave to him. In an extreme example,if you say that a presumed KnightInShiningArmour is LawfulGood, that does not mean that in situation X he can't go around murdeing innocent people for money, it just means that in this case you need to reinterpret his alignment to ChaoticEvil. Similarily but less dramatically, if you assume an psychopath who wants nothing more than to kill people for pleasure to be ChaoticEvil it does not mean he can't be willing to take orders from someone else it just means that in that hypothetical scenario you need to reinterpret the psychopath's alignment to be NeutralEvil.

* Why is Garland acting so mean to the heroes? [[EightBitTheatre Why doesn't he just make them some cookies?]]

** Because Luneth wasn't in the original version of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'', and therefore is not a suitable representative. The original game stared four unnamed youths dressed up as Onion Knights, thus the ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'' representative hero is an unnamed youth dressed as an Onion Knight. Still, since Onion Knight, and Warrior of Light for that matter, have no default name, you can call them Luneth and [[EightBitTheater Fighter McWarrior]] respectively if you really want to...

** From what I understand, the way ''FinalFantasyI'''s StableTimeLoop works means that Chaos and Garland coexisted during the time between Garland being born and his defeat by the Warriors of Light.

***** [[spoiler:Dude, they managed to find playable representation of the [[FinalFantasyXI Final Fantasy MMORPG]] for Dissidia. I sure SOMEONE from FinalFantasyXII is going to find his way into this mess.]]

** Because he isn't Luneth. In the original FinalFantasyIII, the heroes didn't have default names. Luneth didn't exist until the remake for DS. However, Onion Knight has an alternate costume that makes him look like Luneth.

* Why the hell doesn't the Warrior of Light look '''''anything''''' like '''''any''''' of the available classes in ''Main/FinalFantasyI''? The least they could have done was throw some red in there, but why does he have antlers?
** Because the Warrior of Light is a separate character from the FinalFantasyI character classes. Warrior of Light is the guy that appears in the logo for the game and the opening FMV.

* Why is Golbez the villain representing FinalFantasyIV and not Zemus/Zeromus? All the other villains were the BigBad of their games be Golbez was just TheDragon who was never really evil but BrainwashedAndCrazy.

* Going by the above logic, why is it that [[FinalFantasyIII Cloud of Darkness]] is immune to the "No GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere" rule? Granted, Xande may not be the most compelling villain (and no one can really have any emotional connection to a PC like Onion Knight who is given literally no characterization), but he was still the villain for much more of the game than Cloud of Darkness.

*** Except for ''FinalFantasyIV'''s, which is merely the Lunar Surface (even though the game seems convinced that it is the Lunar Subterrene).

* In the English release, the stage from ''FinalFantasyIV'' is called "Lunar Subterrane". Only, it's ''not''. It's the Lunar Surface; the Subterrane is the dungeon within the Moon's core.

* The Character Files say that [[FinalFantasyIII Cloud Of Darkness]] was defeated by a flood of light 1000 years ago. But that's wrong, isn't it? The flood of light ''summoned'' her, as light surrounding a core of darkness, and she was defeated by the Warriors of Darkness, right?

* OK, Terra's near-exclusive use of long-range magic doesn't bug me (after all, magic ability is her defining feature in her game). What does bug me is that her equipment options are limited to knives, staves, and rods, despite that A: she uses a sword in gameplay (albeit only in Chase), and B: she's actually ''unable'' to use staves and rods in ''FinalFantasyVI'', and could only use a very select few knives. At least her exclusive weapons include the chain flail and morningstar, weapons she could use.

** I could pretty much be the need for a name. In the game, as far as I remember, only Cloud of Darkness refered to him as Onion Knight, but only once. And any time Terra mentioned him, he refered to him as "that boy", which on the long run ends up feeling awkward. Warrior of Light has a justification, he doesn't know his own name, but Onion Knight doesn't have anything like that, so shouldn't it be that he ''must'' have a name and not just a tittle? That much anyone can assume, and when looking for a name, what better than the one given to the main character from the ''FinalFantasyIII'' remake? Sure, maybe Dissidia's Onion Knight isn't the remake's Luneth, but does it hurt to give him that proper name as well?

*** It's a ContinuityNod, plain and simple. For those who aren't familiar with the story in ''FinalFantasyIX'', one of the main villains in ''IX'' (not counting Kuja or [[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere Necron]]) is a BadassGrandpa named... wait for it... '''Garland'''. It is Garland who [[TheReveal reveals Kuja's origin as a genome (and an inferior one at that)]]. The revelation from being the FlawedPrototype to Zidane, ''[[GrimReaper The Angel of Death]]'' (and the AntiAntichrist) causes Kuja to experience his VillainousBreakdown, which in turn causes Kuja to become... er... [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Kuja, Destroyer of Terra]]. Thus, the whole Garland vs. Kuja thing (as is all of ''Dissidia'') is a nod to ''Final Fantasy''. Garland's own quote ("I sense you are haunted by your fate") even references Kuja's fear of dying alone and his role as an imperfect Angel of Death. furthermore, he and Zidane have some choice words for each other when ''they'' have fights. Garland says "I will erase you, and your soul!" as a reference to the part in IX where Garland was going to take back the soul he gave Zidane. In return, Zidane will say "This place will be your grave!", or something like that; apparently sort of referencing a line where he says that he is the angel of ''Garland's'' death.

** Not to mention bringing up TheRival for Squall would potentially come off as repetitive in comparison to Sephiroth and Cloud. Besides, what motivation could you give him since he had been mostly manipulated and mind-controlled during the events of ''FinalFantasyVIII''? He's fighting Squall to see who ends up with Rinoa? Yeah, talk about making the villain into a joke. I, for one, am happy that they decided to take a less popular and character and expand it, even if just a little, portraying Ultimencia as having a bit of FoeYay with Squall, and some comments that make her seem like a WellIntentionedExtremist. That's without mentioning she's much more powerful than Seifer or Edea or ANY other antagonist of her game, so why would Chaos pick anyone else instead of her?

* After going through this entire JBM page, it bugs me that a lot of the JBM's are less FridgeLogic and more "why isn't X character I like in this game and why ''is'' Y character I [[FinalFantasyVI HATE HATE HATE]] in this game?". [[HypocriticalHumor ...oh, wait...]]

*** [[FinalFantasyIX Well now,]] most of what I see seems specifically aimed at Yuna/Seymour. There's the one bit including Rydia or Rosa, but that's really all I got. I, for one, happened to be content with the selections. (Maybe because I came into it late, happen to fangirl ''FinalFantasyIX'' the hardest of them, and am generally not very combative over things.)
* [[WordofGod SE]] already jossed the [[FinalFantasyVIII "Ultimecia=Rinoa]] [[WildMassGuessing Theory,"]] so why are Utly's exclusive weapons based on Rinoa's? Are they taking a page from TiteKubo?

*** Yes, exactly. To take a specific example of how character alignment can change within one game: in ''FinalFantasyVII'' Squall and the rest of the SeeDs start off Lawful Good, are imprisoned and chased by officers of the law several times throughout the game, and pretty much end up Lawful/Neutral Good again at the end when the authorities give them the blessing to go and stop Ultimecia. For another, Cecil starts off as Lawful Evil in FFIV and quickly becomes Neutral Good. In ''FinalFantasyIX'' Tantalus manages to be both Chaotic Good and Lawful Good at the same time by engaging in thievery and kidnapping under Cid's orders. There is nothing straightforward about the heroic characters' development in any of the post-III games (and this also goes for a few of those in the first three, like Leon) aside from the fact they essentially have and fulfill the potential to fight for good.

* A joke fan-made screenshot made it seem like Lightning from ''FinalFantasyXIII'' was going to be in this game. It wasn't true of course, but it leads me to an interesting question: Why isn't Lightning in this game? It would have been an awesome secret character, and a nice taste of the plot and battle system of ''FFXIII''. Instead we have... well nobody. [[spoiler: Off topic, and purely my own fanwankery but the game also needed Balthier.]]

*** Have it being Garland who shows up instead of Exdeath and Zidane actually fights him, so they can have the fight that refers back to ''FinalFantasyIX'''s Garland. And you can freely put Exdeath as the one helping Ultimecia in the end and there would hardly be much difference.

** Well, switching the roles of Zidane and Onion Knight personally sounds like a good idea to me. Squall interacting with Onion Knight instead of Zidane could also have served to bring a ShoutOut to Squall's own childhood traumas. [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot But what's done is done]]. At any rate, I ''think'' that the reason Terra and Onion Knight were paired is because they are from ''FinalFantasyIII'' and ''FinalFantasyVI'', the later which first arrived to America as FinalFantasyIII, so I think we probably got a reference to that right there.

* Okay, ''Why'' just ''why'' wouldn't they just put Luneth in as the representative hero from ''FinalFantasyIII''?
** Because Luneth wasn't in the original version of ''FinalFantasyIII'', and therefore is not a suitable representative. The original game stared four unnamed youths dressed up as Onion Knights, thus the ''FinalFantasyIII'' representative hero is an unnamed youth dressed as an Onion Knight. Still, since Onion Knight, and Warrior of Light for that matter, have no default name, you can call them Luneth and [[EightBitTheater Fighter McWarrior]] respectively if you really want to...

* According to the reports, Garland was such a badass he killed the summoned beasts and Omega in the world of ''FinalFantasyI''. So when it comes to the start of that game, why can your level 3 team beat him around?

** In ''FinalFantasyIV'', while the playable characters are a lot more developed than ever before, the game is still pretty short and low on character development compared to those that follow. Obviously Cecil (along with Kain) had the most character development in the original game as is, but imo, it would have been nicer to have a little more of it. Specifically the two things that could have been interesting to see would have been Cecil before he attacked Mysidia (you could have observed the atmosphere in Baron before the mission, controlled him during the invasion there, and more slowly seen the doubts forming in him about the king. Cecil turns good ridiculously quickly- 15 minutes into gameplay, really?- and I found that jarring) and to see more of his thoughts on Golbez and his ancestry. Maybe there could have been a sidequest about the latter. Anyway, my point is that due to tech constraints or it simply not occurring to the developers, this is missing from the original game. I think they realized opportunities for development of Cecil's character were missed then, and decided to try and make up for it in Dissidia by giving his relationship with Golbez a more central role. It looks a bit random if you played the original game because he had no idea about Golbez being his brother until the last minute and had a very muted reaction, but still, there is more potential there than there would have been if Zemus had been put on the opposing team.