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** He may have also known about that while he was alive, as T'Challa would have had no reason not to tell people that he handed Zemo over to the authorities.
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** With [[Series/MoonKnight2022 Taweret]] namedropping the Ancestral Plane as a very real realm of existence akin to the Duat, there is no real reason to believe that Shuri ''didn't'' succeed in entering the Ancestral Plane. Especially since Killmonger himself [[LampshadeHanging pokes fun at Shuri]] [[SkepticismFailure for her disbelief that Plane really exists]]. As for how Erik would be aware of T'Challa sparing Zemo? The Wakandan souls present here are heavily implied to still be able to observe their lineage from the Ancestral Plane, such as Queen Ramonda reaching out to Shuri during her FinalBattle against Namor. So it isn't a stretch to believe that Erik would gain more insight on T'Challa's life by keeping an eye on both him and his family in death.
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Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
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** Nakia killed that one with a sonic gun, which the Talokans are shown to be very vulnerable to in the final battle.
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** That's also assuming Namor himself wasn't among those Snapped away and thus only recently have the Talokan been able to adjust.
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Changed line(s) 67 (click to see context) from:
* Is it the real Killmonger or an hallucination created in Shuri's mind? Also, if it is really Erik, how would he know about T'Challa sparing Zemo?
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* Is it the real Killmonger or an hallucination created in Shuri's mind? Also, if it is really Erik, how would does he know about T'Challa sparing Zemo?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Shuri entering the ancestral plane]]
* Is it the real Killmonger or an hallucination created in Shuri's mind? Also, if it is really Erik, how would he know about T'Challa sparing Zemo?
[[folder: Shuri entering the ancestral plane]]
* Is it the real Killmonger or an hallucination created in Shuri's mind? Also, if it is really Erik, how would he know about T'Challa sparing Zemo?
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** Namor was likely aware of Thanos and that the surface world wasn't responsible. He also probably had his hands full with half his people gone. The Snap would also have severely reduced the Talokan's fighting capabilities and he probably figured that now was not the time to engage in any conflict with the surface world, especially when they aren't (for once) the direct cause of his plight.
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** It seemed to be world domination, along with a complete destruction of the surface world's ability to threaten Talokan - both of which are one and the same in his mind.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Namor's goal]]
* What exactly was Namor looking to accomplish by instigating a war with the surface anyways? World domination? Destruction of all the surface peoples? A preemptive warning not to mess with Talokan?
[[folder: Namor's goal]]
* What exactly was Namor looking to accomplish by instigating a war with the surface anyways? World domination? Destruction of all the surface peoples? A preemptive warning not to mess with Talokan?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder:Selective retaliation for losing one's own]]
* Namor is shown to take the wellbeing of his people very seriously, to the point where he declares war on Wakanda for killing exactly one Talokan while trying to rescue Shuri. If that's the case, why didn't he do anything besides [[AmbiguousSituation possibly causing an underwater earthquake]] when Thanos snapped half his people away? That would be one hell of a reason to declare war on the surface world.
[[folder:Selective retaliation for losing one's own]]
* Namor is shown to take the wellbeing of his people very seriously, to the point where he declares war on Wakanda for killing exactly one Talokan while trying to rescue Shuri. If that's the case, why didn't he do anything besides [[AmbiguousSituation possibly causing an underwater earthquake]] when Thanos snapped half his people away? That would be one hell of a reason to declare war on the surface world.
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Changed line(s) 54 (click to see context) from:
** Namor himself came up with that name and seems almost proud of it when explaining it. It's basically a declaration of scorn for the surface and could also be taken to symbolize pride in Talokan, so it's not inconceivable that someone would name their daughter that.
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** Namor himself came up with that name and seems almost proud of it when explaining it.its origin. It's basically a declaration of scorn for the surface and could also be taken to symbolize pride in Talokan, so it's not inconceivable that someone would name their daughter that.
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** Namor himself came up with that name and seems almost proud of it when explaining it. It's basically a declaration of scorn for the surface and could also be taken to symbolize pride in Talokan, so it's not inconceivable that someone would name their daughter that.
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Changed line(s) 53 (click to see context) from:
* The origin for Namor's name is El Nino Sin Amor. The Boy Without Love. He explained that only his enemies call him this and his real name that he goes by is Kukulkan. Why is it that Namora goes by a female gendered version of the name that only Kukulkan's enemies call him rather than having a mayan name as well?
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* The origin for Namor's name is El Nino Sin Amor. The Boy Without Love. He explained that only his enemies call him this and his real name that he goes by is Kukulkan. Why is it that Namora goes by a female gendered version of the name that only Kukulkan's enemies call him rather than having a mayan Mayan name as well?
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Changed line(s) 53 (click to see context) from:
* The origin for Namor's name is El Nino Sin Amor. The Boy Without Love. He explained that only his enemies call him this and he real name that he goes by is Kukulkan. Why is it that Namora goes by a female gendered version of the name that only Kukulkan's enemies call him rather than having a mayan name as well?
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* The origin for Namor's name is El Nino Sin Amor. The Boy Without Love. He explained that only his enemies call him this and he his real name that he goes by is Kukulkan. Why is it that Namora goes by a female gendered version of the name that only Kukulkan's enemies call him rather than having a mayan name as well?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder:Namora's Name]]
* The origin for Namor's name is El Nino Sin Amor. The Boy Without Love. He explained that only his enemies call him this and he real name that he goes by is Kukulkan. Why is it that Namora goes by a female gendered version of the name that only Kukulkan's enemies call him rather than having a mayan name as well?
[[folder:Namora's Name]]
* The origin for Namor's name is El Nino Sin Amor. The Boy Without Love. He explained that only his enemies call him this and he real name that he goes by is Kukulkan. Why is it that Namora goes by a female gendered version of the name that only Kukulkan's enemies call him rather than having a mayan name as well?
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*** Ultron is probably infamous yet far-off enough that people would get any reference to him that doesn't directly name him. Like how "You know what happened the last time an art school reject got into politics?" is obviously referring to Hitler.
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**** In-universe, it's been 9 years since Ultron and a ''lot'' has happened since then which more directly affected Wakanda. It makes sense that he'd only be off-handedly alluded to.
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Changed line(s) 43,44 (click to see context) from:
* Ramonda comments that she thinks that Shuri's A.I. and other A.I. would rise up, when speaking about her apprehension to it. The apprehension is obviously because of fictional A.I. like Skynet and I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that this is because of stuff from the movies. Wouldn't the obvious choice in a world like this be Ultron?
** Ramonda probably ''was'' thinking about Ultron when she said that. Wakanda would be very aware of Ultron's attack on Sokovia, given that vibranium was used in it and Ulysses Klaw was involved. In fact, T'Chaka went for that fateful UN meeting to sign the Sokovia Accords.
** Ramonda probably ''was'' thinking about Ultron when she said that. Wakanda would be very aware of Ultron's attack on Sokovia, given that vibranium was used in it and Ulysses Klaw was involved. In fact, T'Chaka went for that fateful UN meeting to sign the Sokovia Accords.
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* Ramonda comments that she thinks that Shuri's A.I. and other A.I. would rise up, when speaking about her apprehension to it. The apprehension is obviously because of fictional A.I. like Skynet and I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that this is because of stuff from the movies. Wouldn't the obvious choice in a world like this be Ultron?
** Ramonda probably ''was'' thinking about Ultron when she said that. Wakanda would be very aware of Ultron's attack on Sokovia, given that vibranium was used in it and UlyssesKlaw Klaue was involved. In fact, T'Chaka went for that fateful UN meeting to sign the Sokovia Accords.
** Ramonda probably ''was'' thinking about Ultron when she said that. Wakanda would be very aware of Ultron's attack on Sokovia, given that vibranium was used in it and Ulysses
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*** I get that but I just thought it would have made more sense for Ultron to be mentioned by name.
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** Wakanda is still hidden from the world by holographic shields, and possibly other defenses. This is why the outside world doesn't ''really'' know what happened. It's possible that, through sophisticated surveillance, the US and other Western countries were able to pick up signs of ''some'' kind of violence in the area, without knowing any specifics. Hence, the mention of 'civil unrest'.
** Alternatively, its possible that the world (or at any rate, governments and their intelligence agencies) ''did'' pick up on Talokan attacking Wakanda. But all that the general public and the media is being told is that Ramonda died in 'civil unrest'. The 'civil unrest' narrative was possibly being developed as part of a US plan to invade Wakanda on the pretext of bringing 'stability' to the country.
** Alternatively, its possible that the world (or at any rate, governments and their intelligence agencies) ''did'' pick up on Talokan attacking Wakanda. But all that the general public and the media is being told is that Ramonda died in 'civil unrest'. The 'civil unrest' narrative was possibly being developed as part of a US plan to invade Wakanda on the pretext of bringing 'stability' to the country.
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* By the end of the movie, Riri is allowed to leave Wakanda and return home. She expresses worry that she could be arrested at the airport, but Shuri reassures her that "she took care of it," and even has Ruri's car shipped to Boston ahead of her. Given the extreme tension between Wakanda and the United States, and Ruri's specific status as a person of interest to the CIA, the FBI, ''and'' the Cambridge and Boston police, how can anything other than a federal task force be expecting Riri upon arrival?
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* By the end of the movie, Riri is allowed to leave Wakanda and return home. She expresses worry that she could be arrested at the airport, but Shuri reassures her that "she took care of it," and even has Ruri's Riri's car shipped to Boston ahead of her. Given the extreme tension between Wakanda and the United States, and Ruri's Riri's specific status as a person of interest to the CIA, the FBI, ''and'' the Cambridge and Boston police, how can anything other than a federal task force be expecting Riri upon arrival?arrival?
** It's possible that Wakanda threatened the United States government not to take any coercive action against Riri Williams - either by threatening to publically expose how they targeted one of their own citizens (and illegally appropriated her technology for military purposes), or maybe by threatening to expose other dirty secrets of the US state (remember, the Wakandans have spies embedded across the globe, including the US). Presumably we'll learn more about Riri's legal status in the upcoming ''Ironheart'' series.
** It's possible that Wakanda threatened the United States government not to take any coercive action against Riri Williams - either by threatening to publically expose how they targeted one of their own citizens (and illegally appropriated her technology for military purposes), or maybe by threatening to expose other dirty secrets of the US state (remember, the Wakandans have spies embedded across the globe, including the US). Presumably we'll learn more about Riri's legal status in the upcoming ''Ironheart'' series.
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** Ramonda probably ''was'' thinking about Ultron when she said that. Wakanda would be very aware of Ultron's attack on Sokovia, given that vibranium was used in it and Ulysses Klaw was involved. In fact, T'Chaka went for that fateful UN meeting to sign the Sokovia Accords.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: You can't think of any other A.I. examples, Ramonda?]]
* Ramonda comments that she thinks that Shuri's A.I. and other A.I. would rise up, when speaking about her apprehension to it. The apprehension is obviously because of fictional A.I. like Skynet and I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that this is because of stuff from the movies. Wouldn't the obvious choice in a world like this be Ultron?
[[folder: You can't think of any other A.I. examples, Ramonda?]]
* Ramonda comments that she thinks that Shuri's A.I. and other A.I. would rise up, when speaking about her apprehension to it. The apprehension is obviously because of fictional A.I. like Skynet and I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that this is because of stuff from the movies. Wouldn't the obvious choice in a world like this be Ultron?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Talokan besieging Wakanda without the rest of the world noticing]]
* Wakanda has been mentioned to be landlocked in the first film, and maps have shown it to be roughly in the area between Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia, and South Sudan. No major river flows from that area to the sea—the closest would be minor streams that will finally join the Nile then flow into the Mediterranean, several thousand miles away. So how did Talokan manage to attack Wakanda without any of the surrounding countries noticing?
[[folder: Talokan besieging Wakanda without the rest of the world noticing]]
* Wakanda has been mentioned to be landlocked in the first film, and maps have shown it to be roughly in the area between Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia, and South Sudan. No major river flows from that area to the sea—the closest would be minor streams that will finally join the Nile then flow into the Mediterranean, several thousand miles away. So how did Talokan manage to attack Wakanda without any of the surrounding countries noticing?
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** Perhaps the bugging was limited to the string of beads that Ross had, such as Val inserting a fake CIA "bug bead" among all the other Wakandan beads.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: The US bugging the beads]]
* So the US government is capable of bugging Wakandian technology in such a way that Shuri's lab didn't detect it? Even if they went low tech, the lab would surely pick up basic radio waves?
[[folder: The US bugging the beads]]
* So the US government is capable of bugging Wakandian technology in such a way that Shuri's lab didn't detect it? Even if they went low tech, the lab would surely pick up basic radio waves?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Riri returning to the US]]
* By the end of the movie, Riri is allowed to leave Wakanda and return home. She expresses worry that she could be arrested at the airport, but Shuri reassures her that "she took care of it," and even has Ruri's car shipped to Boston ahead of her. Given the extreme tension between Wakanda and the United States, and Ruri's specific status as a person of interest to the CIA, the FBI, ''and'' the Cambridge and Boston police, how can anything other than a federal task force be expecting Riri upon arrival?
[[folder: Riri returning to the US]]
* By the end of the movie, Riri is allowed to leave Wakanda and return home. She expresses worry that she could be arrested at the airport, but Shuri reassures her that "she took care of it," and even has Ruri's car shipped to Boston ahead of her. Given the extreme tension between Wakanda and the United States, and Ruri's specific status as a person of interest to the CIA, the FBI, ''and'' the Cambridge and Boston police, how can anything other than a federal task force be expecting Riri upon arrival?
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* When did the Wakandan infantry lose their ability to fire sonic blasts from their spears? Would been extremely useful during the final battle to keep the boarders away from the Sea Leopard hull instead of enaging all the Talokan warriors in melee combat. And where were the grenades that one of the Dora Miljae used to take out the Talokan warriors using their siren attack on their paramedics?
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* When did the Wakandan infantry lose their ability to fire sonic blasts from their spears? Would been extremely useful during the final battle to keep the boarders away from the Sea Leopard hull instead of enaging engaging all the Talokan warriors in melee combat. And where were the grenades that one of the Dora Miljae used to take out the Talokan warriors using their siren attack on their paramedics?paramedics?
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Healing factor]]
* Okoye stabs several Talokan through the chest, and then they get back up, implying a very strong HealingFactor. She even mentions this to the council later, so it certainly wasn't some production error. However, it's never brought up again, and Nakia kills another Talokan with a much more minor wound later. So what was this healing, and where did it go?
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Healing factor]]
* Okoye stabs several Talokan through the chest, and then they get back up, implying a very strong HealingFactor. She even mentions this to the council later, so it certainly wasn't some production error. However, it's never brought up again, and Nakia kills another Talokan with a much more minor wound later. So what was this healing, and where did it go?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Where were the Sonic spears?]]
* When did the Wakandan infantry lose their ability to fire sonic blasts from their spears? Would been extremely useful during the final battle to keep the boarders away from the Sea Leopard hull instead of enaging all the Talokan warriors in melee combat. And where were the grenades that one of the Dora Miljae used to take out the Talokan warriors using their siren attack on their paramedics?
[[folder: Where were the Sonic spears?]]
* When did the Wakandan infantry lose their ability to fire sonic blasts from their spears? Would been extremely useful during the final battle to keep the boarders away from the Sea Leopard hull instead of enaging all the Talokan warriors in melee combat. And where were the grenades that one of the Dora Miljae used to take out the Talokan warriors using their siren attack on their paramedics?
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** Given Lake Bell's character was only able to transmit this information on a headset after leaving the communication centre, it might not gotten through. Also "Attackers are blue." is a vague detail, might be Wakandans in blue wetsuits or power armor. Also the Talokan are not unfamilair with technology given the deep dive suit, they would destroy any evidence and likely the ship itself.
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** It could be that Valentina is hiding this information for some reason. Those were CIA operatives.
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New entries on the bottom.
[[foldercontrol]]
[[folder:Knowledge of attackers]]
* When the Talokan attack the ship in the beginning, one of the crew very specifically gets out the message that the attackers are ''not'' Wakandan, they're blue. Throughout the rest of the film, no one mentions this, and Wakanda is blamed for everything. Also, for the attack on the bridge, yes they killed the witnesses, but what about dash cams? And did no one ask who the Wakandans were ''fighting?''
[[/folder]]
[[foldercontrol]]
[[folder:Knowledge of attackers]]
* When the Talokan attack the ship in the beginning, one of the crew very specifically gets out the message that the attackers are ''not'' Wakandan, they're blue. Throughout the rest of the film, no one mentions this, and Wakanda is blamed for everything. Also, for the attack on the bridge, yes they killed the witnesses, but what about dash cams? And did no one ask who the Wakandans were ''fighting?''
[[/folder]]
