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*** The Avatar is the only one who can perform executions of foreign political figures without massive political consequences. If someone else had killed Ozai the Fire Nation would have demanded retribution and there's little Zuko would be able to do to deny it without being overthrown. The Avatar is an agent of balance and peace if they step in personally there is no political recourse.
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** Anyone who's read ASongOfIceAndFire knows "honor" is all well and good as an ideal to strive for, but it's secondary to making the practical decision and ''not'' putting an insane and vicious 14-year-old on the throne. No matter what the rules of Agni Kai are, if the people don't want a paranoid nutbag to arbitrarily banish them, they'll chuck notions of "honor" out the window and support the person who isn't ''rolling around on the ground and screaming like a crazy person''.
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** Anyone who's read ASongOfIceAndFire Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire knows "honor" is all well and good as an ideal to strive for, but it's secondary to making the practical decision and ''not'' putting an insane and vicious 14-year-old on the throne. No matter what the rules of Agni Kai are, if the people don't want a paranoid nutbag to arbitrarily banish them, they'll chuck notions of "honor" out the window and support the person who isn't ''rolling around on the ground and screaming like a crazy person''.
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** Anyone who's read ASongOfFireAndIce knows "honor" is all well and good as an ideal to strive for, but it's secondary to making the practical decision and ''not'' putting an insane and vicious 14-year-old on the throne. No matter what the rules of Agni Kai are, if the people don't want a paranoid nutbag to arbitrarily banish them, they'll chuck notions of "honor" out the window and support the person who isn't ''rolling around on the ground and screaming like a crazy person''.
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** Anyone who's read ASongOfFireAndIce ASongOfIceAndFire knows "honor" is all well and good as an ideal to strive for, but it's secondary to making the practical decision and ''not'' putting an insane and vicious 14-year-old on the throne. No matter what the rules of Agni Kai are, if the people don't want a paranoid nutbag to arbitrarily banish them, they'll chuck notions of "honor" out the window and support the person who isn't ''rolling around on the ground and screaming like a crazy person''.
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* In "The Old Masters," June is right. The whole "Nyla is running around in circles because Aang no longer exists" thing _is_ a real headscratcher. IIRC, explanation for Nyla's talent isn't given, so my theory for how it works is this: First, Nyla smells around to "see" if the person she's tracking has been there before, then follows the scent trail. If the person being tracked _hasn't_ been there before, she smells the other people nearby, in case they already have the scent on them. She then tracks the scent trail of the second person until she finds the trail of the first. Obviously, she doesn't have some sort of laser-tracking, instantly-detect-scents-from-miles-away super sense, or else she wouldn't need to go everywhere her trackee has been. So how does her sudden panic mean that Aang doesn't exist? This troper's theory is that June is lying.
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* In "The Old Masters," June is right. The whole "Nyla is running around in circles because Aang no longer exists" thing _is_ *is* a real headscratcher. IIRC, explanation for Nyla's talent isn't given, so my theory for how it works is this: First, Nyla smells around to "see" if the person she's tracking has been there before, then follows the scent trail. If the person being tracked _hasn't_ *hasn't* been there before, she smells the other people nearby, in case they already have the scent on them. She then tracks the scent trail of the second person until she finds the trail of the first. Obviously, she doesn't have some sort of laser-tracking, instantly-detect-scents-from-miles-away super sense, or else she wouldn't need to go everywhere her trackee has been. So how does her sudden panic mean that Aang doesn't exist? This troper's theory is that June is lying.
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** We're really going to trust the word of Ozai that he's just going to stop what he's doing? He'll falsely surrender one day and resume the next; doubly so when Ozai's really still holding all the cards. Ozai may have been an OrcusOnThisThrone all season; but if that two second lightning charge is any indication, he's no chump.
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** We're really going to trust the word of Ozai that he's just going to stop what he's doing? He'll falsely surrender one day and resume the next; doubly so when Ozai's really still holding all the cards. Ozai may have been an OrcusOnThisThrone OrcusOnHisThrone all season; but if that two second lightning charge is any indication, he's no chump.
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** 1.) I doubt there was a public announcement that Zuko had defeated Azula and assumed her role as Fire Lord until after Aang’s victory over Ozai. He and Katara probably confined themselves to the palace while his wounds healed and waited for things to blow over. 2.) Azula agreed that the throne would go to whoever won the Agni Ki, so if the citizens are going by what their leader considers to be legal, then Zuko can’t be labeled a traitor since he won the throne according to her own terms. 3.) At the time of Zuko’s victory, the only other person who can take the throne has been banishing guards and servants indiscriminately and is now an emotional, fire-spitting wreck. Even if anyone wanted to dethrone Zuko, the smartest move would be to play things safe and just wait and see whether Ozzie does return; it’s not like Zuko and Katara are a match for his skill, so there’s no harm in letting him take back his own throne.
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** 1.) I doubt there was a public announcement that Zuko had defeated Azula and assumed her role as Fire Lord until after Aang’s victory over Ozai. He and Katara probably confined themselves to the palace while his wounds healed and waited for things to blow over. 2.) Azula agreed that the throne would go to whoever won the Agni Ki, so if the citizens are going by what their leader considers to be legal, then Zuko can’t be labeled a traitor since he won the throne according to her own terms. 3.) At the time of Zuko’s victory, the only other person who can take the throne has been banishing guards and servants indiscriminately and is now an emotional, fire-spitting wreck. Even if anyone wanted to dethrone Zuko, the smartest move would be to play things safe and just wait and see whether Ozzie Ozai does return; it’s not like Zuko and Katara are a match for his power and skill, so there’s no harm in letting him take back his own throne.
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** You can’t honestly expect a 12-year-old kid to possess the emotional maturity of a 90-100 year old man. Gyatso undoubtedly had the experience and understanding that killing is going to be seen as acceptable if it’s in defense of others. Aang was stubbornly trying to cling to his people’s beliefs because he wasn’t mature enough to recognize when it would be acceptable to go against them.
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* Another thing about Aang's refusal to kill. Why would Aang think killing Ozai would be against his principles when in the very third episode, he saw Gyatso's skeleton which was surrounded by a bunch of dead Fire Nation soldier bodies showing that he managed to take them down with him? If Gyatso had no problem with killing them despite being an Airbender, how is it different and wrong for Aang to do it?
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** 1.) I doubt there was a public announcement that Zuko had defeated Azula and assumed her role as Fire Lord until after Aang’s victory over Ozai. He and Katara probably confined themselves to the palace while his wounds healed and waited for things to blow over. 2.) Azula agreed that the throne would go to whoever won the Agni Ki, so if the citizens are going by what their leader considers to be legal, then Zuko can’t be labeled a traitor since he won the throne according to her own terms. 3.) At the time of Zuko’s victory, the only other person who can take the throne has been banishing guards and servants indiscriminately and is now an emotional, fire-spitting wreck. Even if anyone wanted to dethrone Zuko, the smartest move would be to play things safe and just wait and see whether Ozzie does return; it’s not like Zuko and Katara are a match for his skill, so there’s no harm in letting him take back his own throne.
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* At the end of the final battles, Zuko is still legally a traitor, and Katara an invader. Zuko and Katara may have defeated Azula, but as far as anyone at the capitol should know Ozai is going to be coming back soon, and there's no way ''he'll'' accept Zuko as Fire Lord. (The two battles took place simultaneously, so there's no way anyone could know what the Avatar did to Ozai yet.) Given that, you'd expect the people of the Capitol to try and kill or imprison Zuko and Katara. Or at the very least those sympathetic to Zuko should have smuggled them out of the Capitol, to someplace where Zuko could recuperate in safety. Instead, they apparently leave the two of them in the Palace, mysteriously unmolested. So why didn't any Ozai-loyalists try to carry out their King's wishes before word of his defeat got back?
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I don't know where exactly this entry originally was, but you can't just delete it with the reasoning of "No, you're wrong."
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*** Honestly, Aang's reluctance to kill or allow people to be killed comes off as an attempt to generate drama. Aang is very definite about not wanting Ozai dead, and yet he led an invasion a few weeks ago, where dozens if not hundreds were killed. This strong aversion to killing only really comes up in the finale, so we can have some moral angst on Aang's part.
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*** Zuko THINKS Iroh is more powerful than Ozai.
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No it doesn't. Pay attention to the plot and writing.
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*** Honestly, Aang's reluctance to kill or allow people to be killed comes off as an attempt to generate drama. Aang is very definite about not wanting Ozai dead, and yet he led an invasion a few weeks ago, where dozens if not hundreds were killed. This strong aversion to killing only really comes up in the finale, so we can have some moral angst on Aang's part.
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** Zuko has utterly mastered the breathing aspect of firebending (WordOfGod says he can hold his breath much longer than the average person, likely because of said mastery). That breath mastery gives Zuko opportunities that another firebender might not get because Zuko basically has more breath to work with and better control. Especially with someone like Azula, who being a prodigy, likely moved on to flashier, more advanced techniques as soon as possible and never revisited the basics.
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*** Except the invasion force won't give him the opportunity to resume the war the next day; they'll have him in custody by then. They've been planning this invasion for months, so they have to have had some plan about how to contain him.
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** We're really going to trust the word of Ozai that he's just going to stop what he's doing? He'll falsely surrender one day and resume the next; doubly so when Ozai's really still holding all the cards. Ozai may have been an OrcusOnThisThrone all season; but if that two second lightning charge is any indication, he's no chump.
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*** Zuko helped conquer the city, yes, but he did so without harming the citizens. Iroh lead a siege that lasted a long time and killed a lot of people on both sides.
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** The comet is also probably too large to effectively be bent. Only extremely powerful benders can control copious amounts of an element at a time; being able to bend a comet of this one's size would probably require the Avatar State, which Aang doesn't have access to until partway through the fight with Ozai.
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** But how would Zuko be exempt from the repercussions of Iroh taking the throne? Zuko actively helped conquer Ba Song Se, something Iroh had only attempted before giving up. And they were both friendly with the Avatar by the end of the series - why could Aang back up Zuko's rule, but not Iroh's?
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** Even if none of the other team members were up to the task, what about an adult they were affiliated with? Like Hakoda or a member of the White Lotus or something? Are executions banned in the Avatar world, unless the Avatar carries them out?
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*** Sokka didn't laugh when he killed combustion man. Sokka laughed when he hit combustion man with the boomerang. When he exploded afterwards, he was just as agape as Katara and Aang. And yes, Katara had the power to kill someone, but again, actually taking the leap into murdering someone is something one cannot go back from, but she didn't because she is ''not a killer''. Sokka and Suki are warriors with a zero kill body count; even when pressured, Sokka didn't run anybody through with his sword, even Azula in the Black Sun nor during the skirmish in which Sokka had a good chance to run Azula through with the sword and didn't do it. Suki could've snapped Ozai's neck after Aang took away the bending but chose not to. Taking a life is not the same as you seem to think it is in a video game. And if Sokka could easily eject the fire benders from the ship high up in the air with no casualties, it's not hard to easily see the others in the other ships abandoning ship as well to get themselves to safety.
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*** Sokka killed Combustion man and laughed about it. Sokka and Suki are warriors, they are fully prepared to kill and have understood the need the whole time. (You think everyone Sokka knocked off the blimps in the finale survived?) Katara couldn't kill the man who killed her mother, but look at the circumstances of when she faced him, she had all the power and recognised he was just a pathetic old man, very difficult to kill a man in cold blood. With Toph it's hard to say, I don't think she ever has before but I'm not sure she'd be all that torn up about it.
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** Lightning generation can only be accomplished if you are free of all emotional turmoil. Aang is currently under tremendous emotional turmoil over having to kill Ozai, something Zuko is aware of on at least some level. No amount of training is going to help Aang achieve the mindset required to put it into action.
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** There are implications throughout the series that Air nomads are a touch more lenient about killing if it's done in self-defense. Aang didn't expect anyone to have to be killed during the eclipse - the Fire Lord and his army were both powerless, so it was only a matter of confronting them, demanding surrender, and incapacitating them if they refused, as we saw the troops doing once the eclipse started. Killing Ozai in the finale was different because Aang knew he would have to go entirely on the offensive and go looking for him in order to end his life. That's a much heavier burden than being attacked by someone and fending them off for the purpose of defending yourself.
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** They wouldn't have needed to individually defeat every one of the Fire Nation's forces - that's not how ending a war works. All they needed to do was take hostages during the eclipse, then demand surrender from whoever's in charge and the rest of the official army will follow suit. Whoever chooses to resist after that will have lost the support of the Fire Nation, so they won't have enough manpower or supplies to achieve anything and are bound to fall apart in due time.
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Back without the name calling.
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** Swing and a miss. Aang knew he'd have to face the Fire Lord. Aang didn't fully realize he'd have to actually kill him. It's like a homework assignment which you brush off for being easy at face value but ultimately proves itself to be much more challenging than you think it is. Aang didn't suddenly come down with moral angst, it's more like the rammifications of what he'd actually have to do finally caught up with him and he got repulsed by it because he will directly have to kill someone; and Aang's no killer. As for "duh, why didn't he just let someone else do it?", who else was going to do it? Katara? She couldn't even kill the man who killed her mother. Sokka? All talk. He couldn't kill Azula when on the Gondola, do you think he'll do that here? Toph? Not in her blood to kill. Zuko? Avatar's destiny, not his and the sheer political fallout would be disastrous alone. Shit, he's getting shit and a half for just being the new Fire Lord in the comics, do you think it would've planned out better that way?
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** Avatars are ultimately human. Roku for instance had no idea where Aang wound up when he was summoned, and Kuruk for all his power was ultimately a lazy surfer whose wife paid big time for his negligence. Also, ask any of them about MetalBending. Future generations may find ways and ideas that the previous generations did not know about or even think to try.
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Try it again without the name calling.
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** Swing and a miss, dipshit. Aang knew he'd have to face the Fire Lord. Aang didn't fully realize he'd have to actually kill him. It's like a homework assignment which you brush off for being easy at face value but ultimately proves itself to be much more challenging than you think it is. Aang didn't suddenly come down with moral angst, it's more like the rammifications of what he'd actually have to do finally caught up with him and he got repulsed by it because he will directly have to kill someone; and Aang's no killer. As for "duh, why didn't he just let someone else do it?", who else was going to do it? Katara? She couldn't even kill the man who killed her mother. Sokka? All talk. He couldn't kill Azula when on the Gondola, do you think he'll do that here? Toph? Not in her blood to kill. Zuko? Avatar's destiny, not his and the sheer political fallout would be disastrous alone. Shit, he's getting shit and a half for just being the new Fire Lord in the comics, do you think it would've planned out better that way?
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** Swing and a miss, dipshit. Aang knew he'd have to face the Fire Lord. Aang didn't fully realize he'd have to actually kill him. It's like a homework assignment which you brush off for being easy at face value but ultimately proves itself to be much more challenging than you think it is. Aang didn't suddenly come down with moral angst, it's more like the rammifications of what he'd actually have to do finally caught up with him and he got repulsed by it because he will directly have to kill someone; and Aang's no killer. As for "duh, why didn't he just let someone else do it?", who else was going to do it? Katara? She couldn't even kill the man who killed her mother. Sokka? All talk. He couldn't kill Azula when on the Gondola, do you think he'll do that here? Toph? Not in her blood to kill. Zuko? Avatar's destiny, not his and the sheer political fallout would be disastrous alone. Shit, he's getting shit and a half for just being the new Fire Lord in the comics, do you think it would've planned out better that way?
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** Ozai's fleet was two things. 1: Scorched Earth strategy. You incinerate ''everything'': food, people, and resources such that your opponent can't make any use of the resources. How do your oppponet mount a counter-attack when they have nothing to fight with and no food to feed their troops? Answer, they can't! 2: It's about sending a simple message: "Surrender or Die." When you look up at the sky and see blimps with technology you don't have access too incinerate large swaths of land (presuming the earth kingdom has no idea how the fire got that strong in the first place); you'll surrender fast unless you have a deathwish; upon which you're worm food and the nation you fought valiantly for surrenders. It'd be like Japan witnessing the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings: Do you resist even still and risk a third bomb? If you're stupid, you say yes.
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*** Why not? That's what she is, in many ways. The feminine, emotional heart of the group who regularly inspires hope in her comrades and does what she can to keep them together whenever necessary. Just because she's aggressive and eager to fight doesn't mean she isn't feminine at the same time.
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*** If you want to, then, think of it as Azula's punishment for not telling Ozai that the Avatar survived the coup in Ba Sing Se. At least, she had a hunch that he might still be alive, but she sat on it for weeks without saying anything, just to try and pull one over on her brother.
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*** If you want to, then, think of it as Azula's punishment for not telling Ozai that the Avatar survived the coup in Ba Sing Se. At least, she had a hunch that he might still be alive, but she sat on it for weeks without saying anything, just to try and pull one over on her brother.
brother. That was a foolish mistake that could've left the Fire Nation at a severe disadvantage during the invasion, if not for the lucky coincidence that the lightning ''had'' severed Aang's connection to the Avatar State. Azula was lucky she was given such an important role at all in the finale, with that in mind.
