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* While the were-shark quest may seem to come out of nowhere, by the book canon, it is surprisingly through and plausible. The wereshark is a Same-Bito, a hengeyokai variant of the Rokea (weresharks). Same-Bito,unlike regulr rokea, have taken time to try and adapt to the life on the surfance. Hengeyokai also are far more likely to deal with Kuei-Jin on neutral terms, unlike western shifters and kindred.

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* While the were-shark quest may seem to come out of nowhere, by the book canon, it is surprisingly through and plausible. The wereshark is a Same-Bito, a hengeyokai variant of the Rokea (weresharks). Same-Bito,unlike Same-Bito, unlike regulr rokea, have taken time to try and adapt to the life on the surfance.surface. Hengeyokai also are far more likely to deal with Kuei-Jin on neutral terms, unlike western shifters and kindred.
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** [[spoiler:Gimble did get [=McGee=]; Carson mentions that Gimble has been mutilating both him and [=McGee=], and after the boss fight with Gimble, you can look in one of the cells and see [=McGee=]'s corpse.]]
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** Also, are we really sure [[spoiler:he did get [=McGree=]]]? I don't remember them actually saying it.
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****** It actually does - some vampires (mostly younger ones and/or Caitiff) get a temporary boost in power. It was never really explained why and it was noted as something really rare but it is there and it is a definite possibility. The PC could have just...been a fluke.
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* Play Sheryl Crow's ''All I wanna do'' while playing this game. [[CrowningMusicOfAwesome Now imagine Jack or your taxi driver playing this on an iPod throughout the events of the game.]]
** "All I wanna do, is have some fun, until the sun comes up over OH GOD THE PAIN! TURN OFF THE BIG LIGHT!"
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** [[FridgeBrilliance Or that you remember seeing what he wanted you to see.]]
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*** Why not go with the obvious? Throughout the game, [=LaCroix=] has basically sent your character on multiple suicide-missions and yet has seen them come out on top every time. He's a newly-instated Prince, and a rather disliked one, so his powerbase isn't exactly as strong as it could be had he been in the position longer (It's even implied that the Sherriff is his only truly loyal servant and the big brute's intimidation factor is the main reason [=LaCroix=] is still "on the throne"). The endgame attempt at Dominate fails because [=LaCroix=] has slowly realized you are a ''very'' big threat to him and his role as Prince, and despite not showing it outwardly, he's too damn scared by this revelation to concentrate enough to make it work!

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*** Why not go with the obvious? Throughout the game, [=LaCroix=] has basically sent your character on multiple suicide-missions and yet has seen them come out on top every time. He's a newly-instated Prince, and a rather disliked one, so his powerbase isn't exactly as strong as it could be had he been in the position longer (It's even implied that the Sherriff is his only truly loyal servant and the big brute's intimidation factor is the main reason [=LaCroix=] is still "on the throne"). The endgame attempt at Dominate fails because [=LaCroix=] has slowly realized you are a ''very'' big threat to him and his role as Prince, and despite not showing it outwardly, he's too damn scared by this revelation to concentrate enough to make it work!work! In short, [[GameplayAndStoryIntegration he botched his roll]].
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****This actually makes plenty of sense if you decide that the difference in willpower is to blame. Think about it: early in the game, the PC was likely unsure of what to do (having recently been plunged into an ancient secret society and forced to fight for survival) and therefore not as willful. They aren't really sure of what to do with their un-life. By the endgame however, the PC is sure of why they're in Lacroix's office and will not be swayed from killing him.
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**** Very few people, especially those who have moved around a lot, have perfectly identifiable accents. This goes doubly when it comes to languages not native to the speaker. Figuring out someone who has never left Birmingham is from Birmingham by accent alone is one thing, but try figuring out the accent of a Frenchman who learned English from a German teacher at a school in Belgium.

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**** Very few people, especially those who have moved around a lot, have perfectly identifiable accents. This goes doubly when it comes to languages not native to the speaker. Figuring out someone who has never left Birmingham is from Birmingham by accent alone is one thing, but try figuring out the accent of a Frenchman who learned English from a German teacher at a school in Belgium.Belgium, listens to British audiobooks and watches American TV.

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*** Alternatively: He learned English in England, but enough of his original French accent remained, and enough of the American accent he is currently immersed in snuck in, to make his accent sound "fake". Very few people, especially those who have moved around a lot, have perfectly identifiable accents. Figuring out someone who has never left Birmingham is from Birmingham by accent alone is one thing, but try figuring out the accent of a Frenchman who learned English from a German teacher at a school in Belgium.

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*** Alternatively: He learned English in England, but enough of his original French accent remained, and enough of the American accent he is currently immersed in snuck in, to make his accent sound "fake".
****
Very few people, especially those who have moved around a lot, have perfectly identifiable accents.accents. This goes doubly when it comes to languages not native to the speaker. Figuring out someone who has never left Birmingham is from Birmingham by accent alone is one thing, but try figuring out the accent of a Frenchman who learned English from a German teacher at a school in Belgium.

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*** Alternatively: He learned English in England, but enough of his original French accent remained, and enough of the American accent he is currently immersed in snuck in, to make his accent sound "fake".

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*** Alternatively: He learned English in England, but enough of his original French accent remained, and enough of the American accent he is currently immersed in snuck in, to make his accent sound "fake". Very few people, especially those who have moved around a lot, have perfectly identifiable accents. Figuring out someone who has never left Birmingham is from Birmingham by accent alone is one thing, but try figuring out the accent of a Frenchman who learned English from a German teacher at a school in Belgium.

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* A minor one, but still: Lacroix, a former soldier of Napoleon's armies, speaks with a british accent during the whole game... Except any british native person, or anyone acquainted with one, could tell you that this really is nothing more than an fake accent (basically, the words are pronounced in a "british" manner, without the right diction or rythm). Why would they do such a glaring mistake, in a game with otherwise flawless dubs, instead of just hiring a british voice actor? Well, one way to see it: the defining idiom of Lacroix is that he is a massively pompous Ventrue jerk. And what better way to hint that than making him talk with an imperfect british posh accent?



** You gotta remember, clan members tend to pick people like other members of the clan when embracing. Since most Ventrue are high and mighty and a lot are like that before being embraced, the PC could just be recoiling at the idea. Possibly said Clan as instinct?

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** You gotta remember, clan members tend to pick people like other members of the clan when embracing. Since most Ventrue are high and mighty and a lot are like that before being embraced, the PC could just be recoiling at the idea. Possibly said Clan as instinct?instinct?
* A minor one, but still: Lacroix, a former soldier of Napoleon's armies, speaks with a british accent during the whole game... Except any british native person, or anyone acquainted with one, could tell you that this really is nothing more than an fake accent (basically, the words are pronounced in a "british" manner, without the right diction or rythm). Why would they do such a glaring mistake, in a game with otherwise flawless dubs, instead of just hiring a british voice actor?
** Well, one way to see it: the defining idiom of Lacroix is that he is a massively pompous Ventrue jerk. And what better way to hint that than making him talk with an imperfect british posh accent?
*** Alternatively: He learned English in England, but enough of his original French accent remained, and enough of the American accent he is currently immersed in snuck in, to make his accent sound "fake".
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To reply to a theory.


* During the tutorial, at the sequence when Jack teach the player character how to feed from rat blood, a Ventrue player character answers that his/her clan is unable to feed that way. The problem is: how could a just embraced neonate already know this? His/her first contact with kindred society happened less than a hour ago (the opening cutscene) and still lack most of basic information about the kindred societies.

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* During the tutorial, at the sequence when Jack teach the player character how to feed from rat blood, a Ventrue player character answers that his/her clan is unable to feed that way. The problem is: how could a just embraced neonate already know this? His/her first contact with kindred society happened less than a hour ago (the opening cutscene) and still lack most of basic information about the kindred societies.societies.
** You gotta remember, clan members tend to pick people like other members of the clan when embracing. Since most Ventrue are high and mighty and a lot are like that before being embraced, the PC could just be recoiling at the idea. Possibly said Clan as instinct?
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** You just have ''suspicions'', not the slightest proof. And more, much later in the game, there is another quest (the Wereshark) in which you can skip the boss fight by attacking and killing the main suspect when you just meet him... which this time costs some humanity.
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** I had already figured out what Gimble was up to by that point, so maybe the game assumes that everyone did?

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** Also, in the first bounty hunter quest, if Gimble had already [[spoiler: captured [=McGee=] and cut his arms and legs off]], why was he still trying to reach him at the tattoo parlor?
*** It's likely [[spoiler:he'd bugged the parlor and wanted to drag in more victims (like people looking for [=McGee=]) by using the phone to contact them.]]

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** Also, in * In the first bounty hunter quest, if Gimble had already [[spoiler: captured [=McGee=] and cut his arms and legs off]], why was he still trying to reach him at the tattoo parlor?
*** ** It's likely [[spoiler:he'd bugged the parlor and wanted to drag in more victims (like people looking for [=McGee=]) by using the phone to contact them.]]]]
* A more serious problem in the same quest. Being able to send [[spoiler:Gimble to Vandal in the blood bank]] is a great idea, but why doesn't it make you lose humanity? OK, Gimble is a serial killer, but when the mentionned dialog option appears, the player character is talking with Gimble in his waiting room and it is the only oportunity to do it. You discover the proofs that Gimble is a serial killer ''after'' this point, when you explore his basement (and speaking with him is no longer possible). You just sent to his death someone you didn't have any reason yet to suspect, so it should have triggered a humanity loss.
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*** It's likely [[spoiler:he'd bugged the parlor and wanted to drag in more victims (like people looking for [=McGee=]) by using the phone to contact them.]]

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*** It's likely [[spoiler:he'd bugged the parlor and wanted to drag in more victims (like people looking for [=McGee=]) by using the phone to contact them.]]]]
* During the tutorial, at the sequence when Jack teach the player character how to feed from rat blood, a Ventrue player character answers that his/her clan is unable to feed that way. The problem is: how could a just embraced neonate already know this? His/her first contact with kindred society happened less than a hour ago (the opening cutscene) and still lack most of basic information about the kindred societies.
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* It seems strange that a blundering security guard like Chunk should land a high-profile job as the front desk guard of the Venture Building right after screwing up his last job, until you realise that his sole purpose is to be a disarming figurehead for anyone wondering if there's something sinister going on in the building. The front entrance is filled with cameras, there's a small army of heavily-armed guards, a dozen powerful vampires past them, and finally the Sheriff if anyone should get past all that. Chunk's sole duty is to just sit there and look humorously incompetent to throw Hunters off the trail.

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** Also, there's a good chance the player will realize the StealthPun at work before the PlayerCharacter brings it up in dialogue: [[spoiler:the Lunatics [in this case, a nickname for Clan Malkavian] are running The Asylum]].



* The validity of [=LaCroix's=] ability to use Dominate on you aside, there's some clever subtlety to it. Dominate requires eye contact, and is often reinforced with verbal commands like "you will" or "do this," watch the opening cutscenes where [=LaCroix=] is talking to the player character very closely, and pay careful attention to the dialog when you tell him [[spoiler: you saw Nines Rodriguez at Grout's mansion]]. "Look at me..."

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* The validity of [=LaCroix's=] ability to use Dominate on you aside, there's ** "All I wanna do, is have some clever subtlety to it. fun, until the sun comes up over OH GOD THE PAIN! TURN OFF THE BIG LIGHT!"
* Why does [=LaCroix=] insist that you look at him when you tell him that you saw [[spoiler:Nines Rodriguez]] leaving Grout's mansion?
Dominate requires eye contact, and is often reinforced with verbal commands like "you will" or "do this," watch the opening cutscenes where [=LaCroix=] is talking Prince wants to be absolutely sure he's getting the player character very closely, and pay careful attention to truth of the dialog when you tell him [[spoiler: you saw Nines Rodriguez at Grout's mansion]]. "Look at me..."matter.



* Why are VV's poems so terrible? Because, even though she's a Toreador who appreciates beauty more than other vampires, she's still undead, and most of them have lost the creative spark in the Embrace; then again, she's a dancer, not a poet...

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* Why are VV's poems so terrible? Because, even though she's a Toreador who appreciates beauty more than other vampires, she's still undead, and most of them have lost the creative spark in the Embrace; then again, Embrace. Or maybe it's because she's a dancer, stripper, not a poet...poet.


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** There's a further layer of fridge brilliance there: what could be the greatest possible madness to afflict a Malkavian, who have incurable insanity as their [[GangOfHats hat]]? Being absolutely convinced that he is the OnlySaneMan, of course. This leads to yet another layer of fridge brilliance regarding the voices he hears: so far from being random babblings, they are a fine example of paranoia-as-heightened-awareness - truly an ironic affliction for someone who believes himself to see the truth more clearly than anyone else. The final layer comes when one realizes that [[spoiler:even this heightened awareness was a falsehood - the greatest danger to him came from Ming-Xiao, not [=LaCroix=]]].
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***** The Withering doesn't explain why Andrei noted that your blood has become much more potent than the last time he saw you though.
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lower gens = more powah


*** A couple of dialogues suggest [[spoiler:Caine himself]] has been cheating by effectively raising the generation of the player via his godlike powers. This also explains how the player characters goes from weak whelp to destroying creatures that should be able to insta-dust him.
*** Throughout the game, you get a hold of plenty of extremely powerful artifacts, vampire and Elder blood packs, and plenty of other things that could arguably raise your generation or give you some other defense.

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*** A couple of dialogues suggest [[spoiler:Caine himself]] has been cheating by effectively raising lowering the generation of the player via his godlike powers. This also explains how the player characters goes from weak whelp to destroying creatures that should be able to insta-dust him.
*** Throughout the game, you get a hold of plenty of extremely powerful artifacts, vampire and Elder blood packs, and plenty of other things that could arguably raise lower your generation or give you some other defense.
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* A minor one, but still: Lacroix, a former soldier of Napoleon's armies, speaks with a british accent during the whole game... Except any british native person, or anyone acquainted with one, could tell you that this really is nothing more than an fake accent (basically, the words are pronounced in a "british" manner, without the right diction or rythm). Why would they do such a glaring mistake, in a game with otherwise flawless dubs, instead of just hiring a british voice actor? Well, one way to see it: the defining idiom of Lacroix is that he is a massively pompous Ventrue jerk. And what better way to hint that than making him talk with an imperfect british posh accent?
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* The game makes a huge deal out of maintaining the Masquerade, to the point that when you accrue enough violations your game is immediately over. How, then, does that explain the Sheriff's Chiropteran form on top of Venture Tower? That's clearly a MASSIVE Masquerade violation, well in the view of several hundred people in adjacent buildings at least. But think about it. [[JudgeJuryandExecutioner Who punishes Masquerade violations?]] [[HangingJudge Prince LaCroix]]. [[SuicideMission Who has been trying to kill you the entire game?]] [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Prince LaCroix]]. [[OhCrap Whose office are you a few steps away from?]] [[DirtyCoward Prince LaCroix]]. With the Ventrue being one of the weakest clans in combat and you being a certifiable BadAss, he's so frightened of you that he's willing to sanction this enormous violation rather than risk having to face you in person since he knows he'll die if that happens.
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* So, there are Werewolves, notorious for their hatred of vampires, that are hanging out in Griffith park? Why haven't they attacked the city before now? [[spoiler: Especially when an Antediluvian is about to rise?]] Answer: [[spoiler: The sarcophagus contains only explosives, and the werewolves, with their spiritual powers know that. Hence, they have more important things to do then mess with a few vampires in a city.]]
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*** Why not go with the obvious? Throughout the game, [=LaCroix=] has basically sent your character on multiple suicide-missions and yet has seen them come out on top every time. He's a newly-instated Prince, so his powerbase isn't exactly as strong as it could be had he been in the position longer (It's even implied that the Sherriff is his only truly loyal servant). The endgame attempt at Dominate fails because [=LaCroix=] has slowly realized you are a ''very'' big threat to him and his role as Prince, and despite not showing it outwardly, he's too damn scared by this revelation to concentrate enough to make it work!

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*** Why not go with the obvious? Throughout the game, [=LaCroix=] has basically sent your character on multiple suicide-missions and yet has seen them come out on top every time. He's a newly-instated Prince, and a rather disliked one, so his powerbase isn't exactly as strong as it could be had he been in the position longer (It's even implied that the Sherriff is his only truly loyal servant).servant and the big brute's intimidation factor is the main reason [=LaCroix=] is still "on the throne"). The endgame attempt at Dominate fails because [=LaCroix=] has slowly realized you are a ''very'' big threat to him and his role as Prince, and despite not showing it outwardly, he's too damn scared by this revelation to concentrate enough to make it work!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Why not go with the obvious? Throughout the game, [=LaCroix=] has basically sent your character on multiple suicide-missions and yet has seen them come out on top every time. He's a newly-instated Prince, so his powerbase isn't exactly as strong as it could be had he been in the position longer (It's even implied that the Sherriff is his only truly loyal servant). The endgame attempt at Dominate fails because [=LaCroix=] has slowly realized you are a ''very'' big threat to him and his role as Prince, and despite not showing it outwardly, he's too damn scared by this revelation to concentrate enough to make it work!
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* Why does Grout take so long to develop the madness of his clan? Answer, he doesn't. Later mentions of hearing voices are separate to his true insanity, which is his "infatuation with reason" as he puts it.
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* Play Sheryl Crow's ''All I wanna do'' while playing this game. [[CrowningMusicOfAwesome Now imagine Jack or your taxi driver playing this on an iPod throughout the events of the game.]]

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* Play Sheryl Crow's ''All I wanna do'' while playing this game. [[CrowningMusicOfAwesome Now imagine Jack or your taxi driver playing this on an iPod throughout the events of the game.]]
* The validity of [=LaCroix's=] ability to use Dominate on you aside, there's some clever subtlety to it. Dominate requires eye contact, and is often reinforced with verbal commands like "you will" or "do this," watch the opening cutscenes where [=LaCroix=] is talking to the player character very closely, and pay careful attention to the dialog when you tell him [[spoiler: you saw Nines Rodriguez at Grout's mansion]]. "Look at me..."
* The entire Malkavian route is full of Fridge Brilliance, because a good part of the story is hidden away in the twisted conversations before anything happens. In theory, you could know the outcome very early just by paying careful attention to the dialogue. Also, the weird "tuna-joke" the newscaster tells a Malkavian player? It's exactly what is happening, and might yet happen. Even the chess-motif is similar to the mail you get.
* Why are VV's poems so terrible? Because, even though she's a Toreador who appreciates beauty more than other vampires, she's still undead, and most of them have lost the creative spark in the Embrace; then again, she's a dancer, not a poet...
[[AC:FridgeLogic]]:
* So, [=LaCroix=] can Dominate you into advancing the plot if you refuse his orders, but at the end, his attempt to Dominate you falls completely flat. While the game certainly doesn't make a point of following [=PnP=] rules to the letter and this is usually a good thing, thinking about this one too hard makes it a little messy; the only way for Dominate to fail without any effort on the victim's part is if the "victim" is a lower generation, so how does he do it early in the game? [[FridgeBrilliance Simple]]; he doesn't. Regardless of attitude, the player character finds it in their best interest to do his dirty work, so his attempt to Dominate you ''looks'' like it works fine.
** Another possibility: the player diablerised the Cathayan/the Chang Brothers/Andrei the Tzimisce, lowering the generation enough to the point where [=LaCroix=] is not powerful enough to dominate them.
*** Yet another possibility: in tabletop Dominate requires a dice roll versus victim's Willpower. If Willpower is high, Dominate can fail. You see, Willpower wasn't used in Bloodlines, so we can assume, that after all those adventures the player's Willpower became stronger, and [=LaCroix=] simply failed the dice roll.
*** Or maybe [[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt Gehenna]] has already started, and [=LaCroix=] is simply one of the first Kindred to be afflicted by the Withering.
**** The Withering explanation moves this whole Dominate debacle from FridgeLogic to FridgeBrilliance.
*** A couple of dialogues suggest [[spoiler:Caine himself]] has been cheating by effectively raising the generation of the player via his godlike powers. This also explains how the player characters goes from weak whelp to destroying creatures that should be able to insta-dust him.
*** Throughout the game, you get a hold of plenty of extremely powerful artifacts, vampire and Elder blood packs, and plenty of other things that could arguably raise your generation or give you some other defense.
** Also, in the first bounty hunter quest, if Gimble had already [[spoiler: captured [=McGee=] and cut his arms and legs off]], why was he still trying to reach him at the tattoo parlor?
*** It's likely [[spoiler:he'd bugged the parlor and wanted to drag in more victims (like people looking for [=McGee=]) by using the phone to contact them.
]]
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* Play Sheryl Crow's ''All I wanna do'' while playing this game. [[CrowningMusicOfAwesome Now imagine Jack or your taxi driver playing this on an iPod throughout the events of the game.]]
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None

Added DiffLines:

* While the were-shark quest may seem to come out of nowhere, by the book canon, it is surprisingly through and plausible. The wereshark is a Same-Bito, a hengeyokai variant of the Rokea (weresharks). Same-Bito,unlike regulr rokea, have taken time to try and adapt to the life on the surfance. Hengeyokai also are far more likely to deal with Kuei-Jin on neutral terms, unlike western shifters and kindred.

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