History Fridge / ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals. He doesn't tell Nanashi's role as the Godslayer for most of the plot. Dagda is actually [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can be the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God. But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have the same vision of the new universe as he does, isn't looking for godhood, and ''cannot be as arrogant as YHVH''. Dagda can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God.]]

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals. He doesn't tell Nanashi's role as the Godslayer for most of the plot. Dagda is actually [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can be the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God. But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have the same vision of the new universe as he does, isn't in it for power, and ''cannot be as arrogant as YHVH''. Dagda can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God.]]

** Second, [[spoiler: Dagda doesn't tell Nanashi that he wants his Godslayer to become the new Creator God until right after the route split because he doesn't want Godhood to be his Godslayer's main goal. When Nanashi meets Dagda after dying, Dagda tells him that he'll only resurrect him if he serves him, rather than saying, "If you do exactly what I tell you, I'll make you God. Yes, God, not a god, ''God''." Dagda's in the way of quite a few dead people, and finding one that wants to become God would be easy. But someone who just wants power wouldn't be a good God at all, and would probably pay lip service to Dagda's beliefs. Dagda touts his resurrection as the only desirable thing to find someone who values life enough to serve a demon, which would be rare in Tokyo. He waits until Nanashi's loyalty to the new universe is undeniable, and then tells him.]]

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals. He doesn't tell Nanashi's role as the Godslayer for most of the plot. Dagda is actually [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can be the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God. But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have ideals that align with his own, obviously, but also ''cannot be as arrogant as YHVH''. Dagda can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God.]]

* [[spoiler: First, Dagda has to shape someone to his perspective. The Godslayer he chooses must follow the path of the new universe of his own will, or else he wouldn't be able to make the universe that Dagda wants. Dagda might as well just take over being the Creator God like Krishna. For the Godslayer to share Dagda's views, Nanashi has to see the flaws of all the sides first. Telling Nanashi to kill everyone right away wouldn't work. It would either result in an angry refusal, or Nanashi killing everyone out of blind obedience. Dagda picks the spot right before the Cosmic Egg to tell him because he has to ensure that Nanashi not only shares his beliefs, but is just as willing to sacrifice everything as he is. The conversations between Dagda, Danu, and the party make it clear that it's Dagda against everyone else, and Nanashi can only follow Dagda by killing everyone else. Only after Nanashi murders his only friends and comrades does Dagda know that Nanashi is serious about the new universe.]]

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals. He doesn't tell Nanashi's role as the Godslayer for most of the plot. Dagda is actually [[spoiler: [[SecretTestOfCharacter testing and training Nanashi]] to ensure that he can be the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God. But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have ideals that align with his own, obviously, but also ''cannot be as arrogant as YHVH''. He can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God. If Dagda told the first dead person he met, "You're dead, but if you do exactly what I say, I'll make you God," then he'd quickly find someone who would be in it for the power and would be just as bad as YHVH. That's why Dagda tells Nanashi that he's only going to resurrect him if he serves him. He adds the bit about Nanashi being his puppet only afterwards, but that can be chalked up to too many people refusing when he mentions the catch first. To make sure that Nanashi truly wants to make a new universe and isn't doing it because he doesn't have a choice, Dagda waits until the last second to tell him. Mentioning it at the very start would most likely get an angry refusal. Nanashi has to see the flaws of all the other sides before he can have the resolve to make a new universe. But that's not all of it. Dagda has to test Nanashi's loyalty first. The spot right before the heart of the Cosmic Egg is perfect because a) the only witnesses are Nanashi's friends, b) by then Nanashi is very close to his friends, and c) Dagda's goals are exactly contrary to the party's with no room for compromise. If Nanashi agrees and is willing to kill his friends for the sake of the new universe, then he is definitely dedicated to Dagda's goals. What's more, Dagda doesn't entice Nanashi with the idea of becoming God until after he's killed his friends. Again, it's insurance that Nanashi isn't in it for the power.]]

* Major plot spoilers follow, especially for the Massacre ending. Dagda is always evasive on his goals. He doesn't tell Nanashi's role as the Godslayer for most of the plot. Dagda is actually [[spoiler: testing and training Nanashi to ensure that he can be the Creator God. Dagda's endgame is to kill YHVH, make a new universe for a free humanity, and install his Godslayer as the Creator God. But in order to do that, he has to make sure that his Godslayer is the right person. The new Creator God has to have ideals that align with his own, obviously, but also ''cannot be as arrogant as YHVH''. While part of it is his own personality, Dagda's treatment of Nanashi is a SecretTestOfCharacter. He can't be up front about everything, or else he'd be stuck with someone who wouldn't be a good Creator God. If Dagda told the first dead person he met, "You're dead, but if you do exactly what I say, I'll make you God," then he'd quickly find someone who would be in it for the power and would be just as bad as YHVH. That's why Dagda tells Nanashi that he's only going to resurrect him if he serves him. He adds the bit about Nanashi being his puppet only afterwards, but that can be chalked up to too many people refusing when he mentions the catch first.]]

** Another thing about the previous game is that there are some places in Tokyo that still have greenery despite there being no sun. Someone asks for LED bulbs to grow crops with, which accounts for places deliberately cultivated like Shinjuku National Park, but some places inexplicably have bushes. The Fairy Forest is 'rented' from the local gods, which no one else mentions. The forest is probably still thriving because [[AWizardDidIt a god did it]]. Who's to say that there aren't some gods hanging around keeping the trees around Ueno alive?

* On Massacre, the point is to kill every single god and demon out there. What about the demons in your stock? Do you kill them, too?

* In a very early scene, Manabu has his demon out, but then has to return it to the phone because it's running out of battery. This is small, but significant. The reason why you don't see people with their demons out all the time is because the Demon Summoning Program eats up the battery.[[spoiler: When the Mandala hits, going to the guy with the enslaved Dwarf in Kinshicho shows that if the demon is already summoned, they aren't un-summoned. Tokyo probably survived because there were some hunters with their demons already out.]] Gauntlets are probably a better version of the smartphone that doesn't require power, because it's doubtful that Mikado has electricity, so Flynn in the previous game could have his demons out all the time. Nanashi doesn't actually need the smartphone because he's using Dagda's power (presumably, he's using the phone as training wheels), so he can always have his demons out. [[spoiler: The fact that Abe has his demons out suggests that he's not using a phone. He's probably either just their boss, or summoning them the same way the Demi Fiend did.]]

* In the Law ending, Lucifer declares that "so long as YHVH exists, however, I shall serve again." He could be referring to his series-traditional role of the commander of anti-YHVH resistance, ''or'' that [[spoiler:he was actually created by and serves the Almighty]].

* In the Law ending, Lucifer declares that "so long as YHVH exists, however, I shall serve again." Is he referring to his series-traditional role of the commander of anti-YHVH resistance? Or is he alluding to the fact that [[spoiler:he was actually created by and serves the Almighty]]?

* In the Law ending, Lucifer declares that "so long as YHVH exists, however, I shall serve again." Is he referring to his series-traditional role of being the commander of anti-YHVH resistance? Or is he alluding to the fact that [[spoiler:he was actually created by and serves the Almighty]]?

* In a very early scene, Manabu has his demon out, but then has to return it to the phone because it's running out of battery. This is small, but significant. The reason why you don't see people with their demons out all the time is because the Demon Summoning Program eats up the battery, so you only see them right after they summon them. Gauntlets are probably a better version of the smartphone that doesn't require power, because it's doubtful that Mikado has electricity, so Flynn in the previous game could have his demons out all the time. Nanashi doesn't actually need the smartphone because he's using Dagda's power (presumably, he's using the phone because it's easier to use), so he can always have his demons out. [[spoiler: The fact that Abe has his demons out suggests that he's not using a phone. He's probably either just their boss, or summoning them the same way the Demi Fiend did.]] Later, [[spoiler: when the Mandala hits, going to the guy with the enslaved Dwarf in Kinshicho shows that people whose demons are already out aren't affected.]]

* When the party is imprisoned, they break out by having Nanashi summon his demons to break the bars. The whole scene is designed to address the oddities of previous game imprisonments; namely, what's keeping the very powerful protagonists from simply busting out? The previous games all have the protagonists imprisoned with all their gear, magic, and demons, and yet they need to go through a trial or use trickery to get out. Apocalypse establishes that their weapons have been confiscated, including their smartphones. The party's only offensive magic user has been imprisoned elsewhere [[spoiler: Hallelujah doesn't want to reveal his magic powers unless he has to]]. Nanashi is the only one who can get them out because he doesn't need a smartphone to summon demons.

* Unlike the previous game, sometimes certain holes are one way; you can jump down from one, but you can't climb back up. It's most likely because Nanashi is shorter than Flynn.

* During the [[BeachEpisode Mephisto DLC]] Navare is returned to his human form and is wearing both a safety jacket and arm floaties. Remember how he died due to drowning?

* The fact that humans decide on a subconscious collective what is real and what is not real explains why so many demons are willing to join your cause. Think about it - how many demons in your party, throughout the entire series, do you remember? Compared to how many you didn't recruit, that's a lot. The better remembered they are, the more likely they will be brought to a new sequel, like Jack Frost, who is beloved by the fanbase and has developed multiple stronger incarnations as a direct result. In-universe, the fact that these demons are fighting alongside heroes gives them more faith from the heroes' fans and therefore more power.

* There is a good reason why BossBanter is prevalent as GameplayAndStoryIntegration in this game as well as in ''IV''. According to [[spoiler: Stephen]], humans were designed by the Axiom/Great Will to be able to derive faith in gods and turn it into truth. Denying this faith is what allows them to have the potential to kill gods. Since most bosses that Nanashi and Flynn encounter are gods in their own right, by responding correctly to their BossBanter, the player can actually make the bosses vulnerable enough in a myriad of ways to be defeated.

* Some people have complained that YHWH's second form is rather boring and plain, but consider TheReasonYouSuckSpeech that Satan give Him on the Massacre route: "You have denounced countless gods as false and dethroned them; you are in their position now. Man leaves faith, denying your divinity... This proves you are no different than other gods." Specifically the last line. Ultimately, YHWH IS no different than the other gods, why exactly should his fallen form be any less "boring and plain" than the other gods' fallen forms?

* There is a good reason why BossBanter is prevalent as GameplayAndStoryIntegration in this game as well as in ''IV''. According to [[spoiler: Stephen]], humans were designed by the Axiom/Great Will to be able to derive faith in gods and turn it into truth. Denying this faith is what allows them to have the potential to kill gods. Since most bosses that Nanashi and by extension, Flynn, are gods in their own right, by responding correctly to their BossBanter, the player can actually make the bosses vulnerable enough in a myriad of ways to be defeated.

* Some people have complained that YHWH's second form is rather boring and plain, but consider TheReasonYouSuckSpeech that Satan give Him on the Massacre route: "You have denounced countless gods as false and dethroned them; you are in their position now. Man leaves faith, denying your divinity... This proves you are no different than other gods." Specifically the last line. Ultimately, YHWH IS no different than the other gods, why exactly should his fallen form be any less "boring and plain" than the other gods' fallen forms?

* Some people have complained that YHWH's second form is rather boring and plain, but consider TheReasonYouSuckSpeech that Satan give Him on the Massacre route: "You have denounced countless gods as false and dethroned them; you are in their position now. Man leaves faith, denying your divinity... This proves you are no different than other gods." Specifically the last line. Ultimately, YHWH IS no different than the other gods, why exactly should his fallen form be any less boring and plain than the other gods' fallen forms?

* A lesser example, but Adramelech. His role among Lucifer's crew is as supervisor of the wardrobe, that is to say he's [[AlwaysCamp a fashion designer]]. His head is that of a donkey and his tail is that of a peacock, making him [[VulgarHumor both a cock and an ass]]. Is there ''any'' doubt as to why his voice is so thoroughly CampGay?

* At the beginning when Asahi is seeking glory, [[spoiler:Odin]] never actually lied to her. She did recieve attention and glory. The former upon the realization that she and Nanashi released [[spoiler: Krishna, the current leader of the Divine Powers]], and then after that recieving glory for [[spoiler: not just leading to Krishna's defeat, but killing Shesha twice and rescuing Flynn as well.]]

* Both Morality Heads, Lucifer in particular, often refers to Flynn as a false messiah after rescuing him from the Divine Powers. Perhaps [[spoiler:a symbol to the fact that the Flynn you rescued was Shesha in disguise, and they both noticed that?]]

* Most likely English version only, but when Gaston is ripping into you regarding Dagda's presence (and you being a corpse), Hallelujah gives a sympathizing look and later comments on how it's tough not being human [[spoiler:may be some {{Foreshadowing}} for the fact that Hallelujah is half demon himself.]]

[b]Fridge Brilliance[/b]
* [[spoiler: Most likely English version only, but when Gaston is ripping into you regarding Dagda's presence (and you being a corpse), Hallelujah gives a sympathizing look and later comments on how it's tough not being human may be some {{Foreshadowing}} for the fact that Hallelujah is half demon himself.]]