Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Fridge / FateStayNight

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* When Rin and Archer are scouting the city in the prologue, they see Sakura and a certain blond man conversing. To them, they should just look like two ordinary people talking to each other so why does Rin ask Archer if he is a human or not? She is wondering if [[spoiler:Gilgamesh is Sakura's servant or not.]]

Added: 241

Changed: 1138

Removed: 747

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Also, in Heaven's Feel it is revealed [[spoiler: that the grail was created for the purpose of opening a gate to the root of the universe, which is stated to be the ultimate goal of anyone who calls himself a magus. Given that Holy Grail has also become a term meaning an ultimate aspiration or goal, it also earns its name by being created to facilitating the accomplishment of the ultimate goal of all magi.]]

to:

** Also, in Heaven's Feel it is revealed [[spoiler: that the grail was created for the purpose of opening a gate to the root of the universe, which is stated to be the ultimate goal of anyone who calls himself a magus. Given that Holy Grail has also become a term meaning an ultimate aspiration or goal, it also earns its name by being created to facilitating facilitate the accomplishment of the ultimate goal of all magi.]]



* The infamous "Mind Of Steel" Bad End from ''Heaven's Feel'' [[spoiler:has both Ilya and Kotomine state that what Shirou does is ''become'' Kiritsugu. It makes sense for Ilya to say that, considering her connection to him-- but the true extent of the parallel is revealed after reading ''Literature/FateZero''. Both Shirou and Kiritsugu fell in love with a woman who is a vessel of the Holy Grail (Sakura, Irisviel), who wasn't expected to really live long at all because of that. Kiritsugu sacrificed her for the sake of winning the war and saving other people, in accordance to his idealism and his "kill one to save ten, ten to save a hundred, a hundred to save a thousand" philosophy. In this BadEnd, Shirou does the ''exact same thing'', and if he kills Ilya and Rin, the other Masters, too, then he'll be following in his father's footsteps even further, killing off as many Masters as possible. While Shirou's other choice, to protect Sakura against all odds is basically the exact opposite of Kiritsugu's actions in every sense possible, as he sacrifices other people for his love instead. In a metaphorical sense, one could see this as Shirou fixing his father's mistake, and just goes to show how much Shirou changes.]]
** Linking to that, why are Illy and Taiga so unnerved about it in Tiger Dojo? Because they SAW it happen, Illya probably now understands what really happened to Kiritsugu. While Taiga saw Kiritsugu wither away in despair. They are very distraught at seeing Shirou go the same way. An extra layer of Fridge, is that Mind of Steel is the one BadEnd that can happen under ANY circumstance, unless Shirou finds love. Mind of Steel is basically Heroic Spirit EMIYA.

to:

* The infamous "Mind Of Steel" Bad End from ''Heaven's Feel'' [[spoiler:has both Ilya and Kotomine state that what Shirou does is ''become'' Kiritsugu. It makes sense for Ilya to say that, considering her connection to him-- but the true extent of the parallel is revealed after reading ''Literature/FateZero''. Both Shirou and Kiritsugu fell in love with a woman who is a vessel of the Holy Grail (Sakura, Irisviel), who wasn't expected to really live long at all because of that. Kiritsugu sacrificed her for the sake of winning the war and saving other people, in accordance to his idealism and his "kill one to save ten, ten to save a hundred, a hundred to save a thousand" philosophy. In this BadEnd, Shirou does the ''exact same thing'', and if he kills Ilya and Rin, the other Masters, too, then he'll be following in his father's footsteps even further, killing off as many Masters as possible. While Shirou's other choice, to protect Sakura against all odds is basically the exact opposite of Kiritsugu's actions in every sense possible, as he sacrifices other people for his love instead. In a metaphorical sense, one could see this as Shirou fixing his father's mistake, and just goes to show how much Shirou changes.]]
** Linking to that, why are Illy and Taiga so unnerved about it that in the Tiger Dojo? Because they SAW it happen, Illya probably now understands what really happened to Kiritsugu. While Kiritsugu, and Taiga saw Kiritsugu wither away in despair. They are very distraught at seeing Shirou go the same way. An extra layer of Fridge, Fridge is that Mind of Steel is the one BadEnd that can happen under ANY circumstance, unless Shirou finds love. Mind of Steel is basically Heroic Spirit EMIYA.



* Why did Tohsaka move in with Shiro after they decide to ally temporarily? Wouldn't her house be much better defended? It's possible she wasn't planning on it being long term and didn't want him seeing the defences, but neither Shirou nor Saber seem like they'd be great at unraveling its defences.
* When you think about it, Shirou's development in each route is the product of contact with Archer. In Fate it's Archer's verbal advice that leads Shirou to try projection. In UBW he absorbs knowledge by watching Archer fight and copying him, and in Heaven's Feel he gets Archer's full powers by virtue of the arm graft. This makes sense when you consider that Shirou's strength was always a CharlesAtlasSuperpower and Archer helps him cut corners towards it. Despite his enmity, Archer is quite the StealthMentor. It goes a bit deeper than simple fighting. Archer is trying to explain to Shirou WHY he must not do what he wants to do (be a Hero of Justice). Despite his cyical and rather harsh deliver. Archer Always has useful words for Shirou.

to:

* Why did Tohsaka move in with Shiro after they decide to ally temporarily? Wouldn't her house be much better defended? It's possible she wasn't planning on it being long term and didn't want him seeing the defences, but neither Shirou nor Saber seem like they'd be great at unraveling its defences.
* When you think about it, Shirou's development in each route is the product of contact with Archer. In Fate it's Archer's verbal advice that leads Shirou to try projection. In UBW he absorbs knowledge by watching Archer fight and copying him, and in Heaven's Feel he gets Archer's full powers by virtue of the arm graft. This makes sense when you consider that Shirou's strength was always a CharlesAtlasSuperpower and Archer helps him cut corners towards it. Despite his enmity, Archer is quite the StealthMentor. It goes a bit deeper than simple fighting. Archer is trying to explain to Shirou WHY he must not do what he wants to do (be a Hero of Justice). Despite his cyical and rather harsh deliver. delivery Archer Always always has useful words for Shirou.



** UBW: Shirou is constantly pushing up this river to find himself, who he is, why did he wanted to be a hero of justice. Ultimately finding the answer he was looking for in the ideal of '''Unlimited Blade Works'''.

to:

** UBW: Shirou is constantly pushing up this river to find himself, who he is, why did he wanted want to be a hero of justice. Ultimately finding the answer he was looking for in the ideal of '''Unlimited Blade Works'''.



* It might not be intentional but it is an interesting observation. The play ''Theatre/{{Medea}}'' was written when ancient Athens forbad Athenian men to take foreign wives which caused Medea to act the way she did. In modern Japanese law (especially at the time of Fate's release), a foreign spouse who married a Japanese citizen ''could'' apply for naturalization. Should Caster get to stay with Kuzuki, this is a far better deal for her than what she had in life.
* The villain of ''Heaven's Feel'' works by eating people, which is why [[spoiler:a man who can turn his body into swords]] is naturally the hero of the story. The ending is like the magical equivalent of [[spoiler:Dark Sakura]] biting down on a bunch of razorblades, and it's [[TooSpicyForYogSohoth just as destructive for her as that implies]].

to:

* It might not be intentional but it is an interesting observation. The play ''Theatre/{{Medea}}'' was written when ancient Athens forbad Athenian men to take foreign wives wives, a law which caused Medea to act the way she did. In modern Japanese law (especially at the time of Fate's release), a foreign spouse who married a Japanese citizen ''could'' apply for naturalization. Should Caster get to stay with Kuzuki, this is a far better deal for her than what she had in life.
* The villain of ''Heaven's Feel'' works by eating people, which is why [[spoiler:a man who can turn his body into swords]] is naturally the hero of the story. The ending is like the magical equivalent of [[spoiler:Dark Sakura]] biting down on a bunch of razorblades, and it's [[TooSpicyForYogSohoth [[TooSpicyForYogSothoth just as destructive for her as that implies]].




to:

* The three love interests represent sections of time. Sakura lives with Shirou in the present, Saber comes from the past and vindicates his past decision to become a hero, and Rin summoned his potential future self (on top of having the most detailed epilogue).
* Sakura and Shirou are both full of [[spoiler:artificial creations- worms and swords respectively. Other than swords being able to ''cut'' worms, this shows their emotional flaws; Sakura is too soft and Shirou is brittle and unempathetic.]]



** However, since one condition for the "true end" of the Heavens Feel route is to have the relation level with Illya at 4, it's also possible that Illya simply didn't go there in the normal end.

to:

** However, since one condition for the "true end" of the Heavens Feel route is to have the relation a relationship level with Illya at 4, it's also possible that Illya simply didn't go there in the normal end.

Added: 142

Changed: 354

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Consider Shirou's powers for a moment. Reinforcement and Projection magic, two mundane forms of magic, that when used "incorrectly" by him, allows him to create, new magical circuits inside himself, a pocket dimension, and any physical sword (as well as a powerful shield, Rho Aias) he has ever seen or learned of, as well as the skill to use it, understand, remember, and repair the make-up of numerous technological devices, and physically enhance his own body. All of which he can manifest onto/into reality itself. Laymans terms: Shirou has managed to obtain perhaps the second most coveted power in all creation, next to immortality. The Power Of Creation. UBW may require obscene amounts of power that he rarely has access to, but all of the swords in it, he can manifest anytime at practically no cost to himself whatsoever. Did Shirou really fail at using those forms of magic, like how other magi such as Rin and Illya would view and use it, or, is he the only person since, well ever, to actually get it right? For bonus points, who else has the ability to empower physical flesh, alter reality (even if only temporarily), create matter, and sustain said matter indefinitely unless they deem otherwise, and it returns to nonexistence? Um...GOD! Doesn't this classify him as a Physical God? Suddenly, him being able to eventually defeat monsters like Kirei, Hercules, Gilgamesh, and Angria Manyu, makes a whole lot more sense.

to:

* Consider Shirou's powers for a moment. Reinforcement and Projection magic, two mundane forms of magic, that when used "incorrectly" by him, allows him to create, new magical circuits inside himself, a pocket dimension, and any physical sword (as well as a powerful shield, Rho Aias) he has ever seen or learned of, as well as the skill to use it, understand, remember, and repair the make-up of numerous technological devices, and physically enhance his own body. All of which he can manifest onto/into reality itself. Laymans terms: Shirou has managed to obtain perhaps the second most coveted power in all creation, next to immortality. The Power Of Creation.ThePowerOfCreation. UBW may require obscene amounts of power that he rarely has access to, but all of the swords in it, he can manifest anytime at practically no cost to himself whatsoever. Did Shirou really fail at using those forms of magic, like how other magi such as Rin and Illya would view and use it, or, is he the only person since, well ever, to actually get it right? For bonus points, who else has the ability to empower physical flesh, alter reality (even if only temporarily), create matter, and sustain said matter indefinitely unless they deem otherwise, and it returns to nonexistence? Um...GOD! Doesn't this classify him as a Physical God? Suddenly, him being able to eventually defeat monsters like Kirei, Hercules, Gilgamesh, and Angria Manyu, makes a whole lot more sense.



* After Lancer manages to injure Saber in their first fight, Saber requests that Shirou heal her wounds despite not knowing what skills Shirou has. This is because, as revealed in Literature/FateZero, despite being Kiritsugu's Servant she was paired with Irisviel for most of the Grail War, who could support her with healing magic. Given how the Holy Grail and Throne of Heros exist outside time, from Saber's viewpoint it wasn't too long ago that she had Irisviel healing her wounds on demand.

to:

* After Lancer manages to injure Saber in their first fight, Saber requests that Shirou heal her wounds despite not knowing what skills Shirou has. This is because, as revealed in Literature/FateZero, despite being Kiritsugu's Servant she was paired with Irisviel for most of the Grail War, who could support her with healing magic. Given how the Holy Grail and Throne of Heros Heroes exist outside time, from Saber's viewpoint it wasn't too long ago that she had Irisviel healing her wounds on demand.



** Fate: Saber is by his side helping him. Even though Shirou may have survived, Saber must still help others who is caught up in the struggle too. Thus this Shirou is leaving everything to '''Fate'''. Eventually he meets her in the after-life.

to:

** Fate: Saber is by his side helping him. Even though Shirou may have survived, Saber must still help others who is caught up in the struggle too. Thus this Shirou is leaving everything to '''Fate'''. Eventually he meets her in the after-life.afterlife.



* It might not be intentional but it is an interesting observation. The play ''Theatre/{{Medea}}'' was written when ancient Athens forbid Athenian men to take foreign wives which caused Medea to act the way she did. In modern Japanese law (especially at the time of Fate's release), a foreign spouse who married a Japanese citizen ''could'' apply for naturalization. Should Caster get to stay with Kuzuki, this is a far better deal for her than what she had in life.

to:

* It might not be intentional but it is an interesting observation. The play ''Theatre/{{Medea}}'' was written when ancient Athens forbid forbad Athenian men to take foreign wives which caused Medea to act the way she did. In modern Japanese law (especially at the time of Fate's release), a foreign spouse who married a Japanese citizen ''could'' apply for naturalization. Should Caster get to stay with Kuzuki, this is a far better deal for her than what she had in life.
* The villain of ''Heaven's Feel'' works by eating people, which is why [[spoiler:a man who can turn his body into swords]] is naturally the hero of the story. The ending is like the magical equivalent of [[spoiler:Dark Sakura]] biting down on a bunch of razorblades, and it's [[TooSpicyForYogSohoth just as destructive for her as that implies]].
** A similar thing happens in ''Ataraxia''; [[spoiler:Rider]] "swallows" Shirou into a dream world to rape him, an act which backfires on her.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The three story paths all focus on several characters but in different ways!
** The Fate path focuses on the servant and master relationship, the story focuses on the conflict between Shirou and Saber against other Master and Servant pairs like Shinji and Rider, and the romance is between a Master and a Servant. Even the final boss is a Master and Servant Pair.
** The Unlimited Blade Works path focuses on servants! Archer plays a large role, Caster is at her most active, Lancer appears more frequently, and the relationship between Shirou and Saber is very much a Master and Servant. Gilgamesh takes the spotlight as the main villain and Rin and Shirou get together after losing their Servants and their character Development. It also explores Archer's identity and what made him a Hero, and later a Servant.
** Heavens Feel focuses on the Human characters. Kotomine, Shirou, Illya, and Sakura get explored greatly compared to the Fate path and very quickly in the story Lancer, Caster, Assassin, Gilgamesh, and Archer are killed with Beserker dying shortly too. Saber and Rider are the only ones left, and after their fight only Rider. Zouken even appears and thus moves the storyline with a more focused story to it. The final boss is even Kotomine, who fights Shirou.

to:

* The Narratively, the three story paths all routes each focus on several characters but in the two main dynamics of the Holy Grail War: The Masters and Servants. However, each one examines it through different ways!
means:
** The Fate path focuses on the servant and master relationship, the relationship. The story focuses on the conflict between Shirou and Saber against other Master and Servant pairs like Shinji and Rider, and the romance is between a Master and a Servant. This means it focuses on how each Masters and Servants impact each other, but many of the pairs are not given as much focus, helping set the ground work for later chapters to focus on them individually instead. Even the final boss is a Master and Servant Pair.
pair.
** The Unlimited Blade Works path focuses on servants! Servants. Archer plays a large role, Caster is at her most active, Lancer appears more frequently, and the relationship between Shirou and Saber is very much a Master and Servant. Gilgamesh takes the spotlight as the main villain villain, and Rin and Shirou get together after losing their Servants Servants, and their character Development. development is tied to their role as Masters who lost their Servants. It also explores Archer's identity the most, and what made him most of the fights are between Servants as opposed to a Hero, and later a Servant.
mixture of the two.
** Heavens Feel focuses on the Human human characters. Kotomine, Shirou, Illya, and Sakura get explored greatly in more complex ways compared to the Fate path and very quickly in the story Lancer, Caster, Assassin, Gilgamesh, and Archer are killed with Beserker dying shortly too.too, making it more focused on the drama between Masters than the UBW route. Saber and Rider are the only ones left, and after their fight only Rider. Zouken even appears and thus moves the storyline with a more focused story to it. The final boss is even against Kotomine, who fights Shirou.Shirou in a battle to the death.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The infamous "Mind Of Steel" Bad End from ''Heaven's Feel'' [[spoiler:has both Ilya and Kotomine state that what Shirou does is ''become'' Kiritsugu. It makes sense for Ilya to say that, considering her connection to him-- but the true extent of the parallel is revealed after reading ''LightNovel/FateZero''. Both Shirou and Kiritsugu fell in love with a woman who is a vessel of the Holy Grail (Sakura, Irisviel), who wasn't expected to really live long at all because of that. Kiritsugu sacrificed her for the sake of winning the war and saving other people, in accordance to his idealism and his "kill one to save ten, ten to save a hundred, a hundred to save a thousand" philosophy. In this BadEnd, Shirou does the ''exact same thing'', and if he kills Ilya and Rin, the other Masters, too, then he'll be following in his father's footsteps even further, killing off as many Masters as possible. While Shirou's other choice, to protect Sakura against all odds is basically the exact opposite of Kiritsugu's actions in every sense possible, as he sacrifices other people for his love instead. In a metaphorical sense, one could see this as Shirou fixing his father's mistake, and just goes to show how much Shirou changes.]]

to:

* The infamous "Mind Of Steel" Bad End from ''Heaven's Feel'' [[spoiler:has both Ilya and Kotomine state that what Shirou does is ''become'' Kiritsugu. It makes sense for Ilya to say that, considering her connection to him-- but the true extent of the parallel is revealed after reading ''LightNovel/FateZero''.''Literature/FateZero''. Both Shirou and Kiritsugu fell in love with a woman who is a vessel of the Holy Grail (Sakura, Irisviel), who wasn't expected to really live long at all because of that. Kiritsugu sacrificed her for the sake of winning the war and saving other people, in accordance to his idealism and his "kill one to save ten, ten to save a hundred, a hundred to save a thousand" philosophy. In this BadEnd, Shirou does the ''exact same thing'', and if he kills Ilya and Rin, the other Masters, too, then he'll be following in his father's footsteps even further, killing off as many Masters as possible. While Shirou's other choice, to protect Sakura against all odds is basically the exact opposite of Kiritsugu's actions in every sense possible, as he sacrifices other people for his love instead. In a metaphorical sense, one could see this as Shirou fixing his father's mistake, and just goes to show how much Shirou changes.]]



* After LightNovel/FateZero, considering just who raised Shirou, his sense of worth being so deeply embedded in being a hero makes ''so'' much sense.
* Which two Servants successfully betray their masters in Fate and LightNovel/FateZero? [[spoiler: Archer and Gilgamesh]]. What do they have in common? [[spoiler: The Archer class skill: Independent Action.]]

to:

* After LightNovel/FateZero, Literature/FateZero, considering just who raised Shirou, his sense of worth being so deeply embedded in being a hero makes ''so'' much sense.
* Which two Servants successfully betray their masters in Fate and LightNovel/FateZero? Literature/FateZero? [[spoiler: Archer and Gilgamesh]]. What do they have in common? [[spoiler: The Archer class skill: Independent Action.]]



** Fate: Shirou summoned the Saber that his father used in the [[LightNovel/FateZero Fourth Holy Grail War]] and proceeds to fight and win the War.

to:

** Fate: Shirou summoned the Saber that his father used in the [[LightNovel/FateZero [[Literature/FateZero Fourth Holy Grail War]] and proceeds to fight and win the War.



* After Lancer manages to injure Saber in their first fight, Saber requests that Shirou heal her wounds despite not knowing what skills Shirou has. This is because, as revealed in LightNovel/FateZero, despite being Kiritsugu's Servant she was paired with Irisviel for most of the Grail War, who could support her with healing magic. Given how the Holy Grail and Throne of Heros exist outside time, from Saber's viewpoint it wasn't too long ago that she had Irisviel healing her wounds on demand.

to:

* After Lancer manages to injure Saber in their first fight, Saber requests that Shirou heal her wounds despite not knowing what skills Shirou has. This is because, as revealed in LightNovel/FateZero, Literature/FateZero, despite being Kiritsugu's Servant she was paired with Irisviel for most of the Grail War, who could support her with healing magic. Given how the Holy Grail and Throne of Heros exist outside time, from Saber's viewpoint it wasn't too long ago that she had Irisviel healing her wounds on demand.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* It might not be intentional but it is an interesting observation. The play ''Theater/Medea'' was written when ancient Athens forbid Athenian men to take foreign wives which caused Medea to act the way she did. In modern Japanese law (especially at the time of Fate's release), a foreign spouse who married a Japanese citizen ''could'' apply for naturalization. Should Caster get to stay with Kuzuki, this is a far better deal for her than what she had in life.

to:

* It might not be intentional but it is an interesting observation. The play ''Theater/Medea'' ''Theatre/{{Medea}}'' was written when ancient Athens forbid Athenian men to take foreign wives which caused Medea to act the way she did. In modern Japanese law (especially at the time of Fate's release), a foreign spouse who married a Japanese citizen ''could'' apply for naturalization. Should Caster get to stay with Kuzuki, this is a far better deal for her than what she had in life.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* It might not be intentional but it is an interesting observation. The play ''Theater/Medea'' was written when ancient Athens forbid Athenian men to take foreign wives which caused Medea to act the way she did. In modern Japanese law (especially at the time of Fate's release), a foreign spouse who married a Japanese citizen ''could'' apply for naturalization. Should Caster get to stay with Kuzuki, this is a far better deal for her than what she had in life.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Actually, it is stated that if no catalyst is used, the Grail will summon a Heroic Spirit whose personality aligns best with the Summoner, which led to Rin summoning the future self of Shirou Emiya.

Top