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Reverting ban evader's edit.


** First, it allows the World State to keep and make use of those divergent intellects. Even the World State can use true independent thinkers (to come up with new and better technology for propitiating the masses, if nothing else[[note]]the 1998 made-for-TV movie did have that as one of the reasons why John and his mother are brought over to civilized society. The other being to find John's biological father, who is said to be one of the border guards who dated, seduced, and abandoned John's mother[[/note]]), and there is always the chance that some catastrophe or OutsideContextProblem may come up, in which case the World State may suddenly ''need'' that capacity for innovation. And if that day ever comes, those minds are right there on the islands, ready for use.

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** First, it allows the World State to keep and make use of those divergent intellects. Even the World State can use true independent thinkers (to come up with new and better technology for propitiating the masses, if nothing else[[note]]the 1998 made-for-TV movie did have that as one of the reasons why John and his mother are brought over to civilized society. The other being to find John's biological father, who is said to be one of the border guards who dated, seduced, and abandoned John's mother[[/note]]), else), and there is always the chance that some catastrophe or OutsideContextProblem may come up, in which case the World State may suddenly ''need'' that capacity for innovation. And if that day ever comes, those minds are right there on the islands, ready for use.
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** First, it allows the World State to keep and make use of those divergent intellects. Even the World State can use true independent thinkers (to come up with new and better technology for propitiating the masses, if nothing else), and there is always the chance that some catastrophe or OutsideContextProblem may come up, in which case the World State may suddenly ''need'' that capacity for innovation. And if that day ever comes, those minds are right there on the islands, ready for use.

to:

** First, it allows the World State to keep and make use of those divergent intellects. Even the World State can use true independent thinkers (to come up with new and better technology for propitiating the masses, if nothing else), else[[note]]the 1998 made-for-TV movie did have that as one of the reasons why John and his mother are brought over to civilized society. The other being to find John's biological father, who is said to be one of the border guards who dated, seduced, and abandoned John's mother[[/note]]), and there is always the chance that some catastrophe or OutsideContextProblem may come up, in which case the World State may suddenly ''need'' that capacity for innovation. And if that day ever comes, those minds are right there on the islands, ready for use.
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* I've actually read arguments that this society "wouldn't be all that bad," without even adding the caveat "as long as you're an Alpha or Beta." No, it just sounds like a lot of fun -- everyone is happy, and everyone has lots of fun sex! Here's how supposedly sexually liberated this culture really is (doubles as FridgeHorror): Fertility is a "nuisance" to this society (as babies are made in factories and normal reproduction would seriously disrupt the system), yet they want everyone to be free to have the pleasure of sex as much as they want, whenever they want, with whomever they want. As they still need ovaries and sperm to produce their population, and a man can provide a relatively limitless supply of sperm compared to the limited number of eggs in one ovary, the simplest solution would seem to be to make most of their male population sterile, but what do they do? Make only 30% of their female population fertile and make the rest sterile and androgynous with a slight "tendency to grow beards." Say that again: Only 30% of all women are permitted to fully develop sexually, but ''all'' men are. All men are allowed to develop normally and enjoy their manhood to the fullest, but almost no women are -- 70% of the female population have had so much of their femininity removed, they're not even referred to as "female" but as "freemartin." The World State's "ideal" version of a perfectly stable society is one where women only make up 15% of the population, and all males are permitted to be born whole but 70% of females must be born mutilated and the equivalent of castrated. It's ''only'' female fertility they villify, not male, and only women's bodies that are treated as a threat to stability and must be restrained; we know that women are drilled to take contraceptives, but we never see any indication that men are drilled to use condoms. This isn't some open-minded, civilized, advanced land of sexual liberation; it's just another society where female sexuality is regarded as disgusting and dangerous, like so many before it, except they have the technology to better guard against it. Oh, brave new world, where the threat of woman has finally been neutralized!
** Female femininity and sexuality don't seem to be under fire though, since the purpose of rendering her infertile is just to keep her from reproducing. The text makes it clear that a woman becoming androgynous is just an unfortunate side-effect rather than the desired outcome of their (outdated) methods of making her sterile, yet it's not one they're in a hurry to fix since social stability requires scientific/technological stagnation. (If someone were to look for a way to make women infertile without sacrificing her "femininity" they might discover a better way or that male sterilization is more effective and the whole system could get called into question!) However, it is a troubling DoubleStandard that ''only'' women have to take contraceptive measures while ''no men do''. (Meaning men get all the fun associated with sex, while women get all the responsibility.) Also the troubling DoubleStandard regarding fertility: That being a Father is an embarrassment, but being a Mother is the most shameful, disgusting, humiliating, revolting thing that can ever happen to a person. It seems that a woman's femininity and sexuality is fine (since her looking pretty means he gets to have his jollies, and her having casual sex means he gets to have casual sex), but her ''reproduction'' is certainly considered "disgusting and dangerous." It is certainly yet another society where female sexuality and reproduction is controlled.
** One must keep in mind that medical science had not gotten to the point that reliable, safe birth control was a thing yet. Huxley was, while gifted with some foresight (fetal alcohol syndrome for example), not a prophet. He could not see the future of medicine. This problem with Brave New World is a result of the era it was written in, as well as the motives of the writer. When crafting your vision of a dystopia, one is going to want to add details to make sure people see it as negative. With modern medical science, this problem is entirely able to be eliminated. No hypothetical society is perfect. It still fails to be worse than our current world, and if you apply medical science that Huxley has no ability to know about this issue is easily eliminated. Even then, its a mere sci-fi version of issues that already exist in our modern world, and they’ve eliminated most of the issues we have. It’s a lot easier to solve the flaws in the world of Brave New World than our world. Even with this detail maintained, it’s still better off than our oppressive society. Most of what’s oppressive in that world eliminates misery. Everything oppressive in our world creates misery, oftentimes intentionally.
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* For another reason why this '[[TitleDrop brave new world]]' to us [[CrapsaccharineWorld looks like hell]] look at its description of the characters' BlueAndOrangeMorality: 'good and bad' is now "happiness and unhappiness".

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* For another reason why this '[[TitleDrop brave new world]]' to us [[CrapsaccharineWorld looks like hell]] look at its description of the characters' BlueAndOrangeMorality: 'good and bad' is now "happiness and unhappiness". Good and bad focuses on your actions and how they benefit or harm others and society as a whole. Happiness however seems more focused on your own personal benefit rather than anyone else's.
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* For another reason why this '[[TitleDrop brave new world]]' to us

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* For another reason why this '[[TitleDrop brave new world]]' to us [[CrapsaccharineWorld looks like hell]] look at its description of the characters' BlueAndOrangeMorality: 'good and bad' is now "happiness and unhappiness".
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* For another reason why this '[[TitleDrop brave new world]]' to us
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** One must keep in mind that medical science had not gotten to the point that reliable, safe birth control was a thing yet. Huxley was, while gifted with some foresight (fetal alcohol syndrome for example), not a prophet. He could not see the future of medicine. This problem with Brave New World is a result of the era it was written in, as well as the motives of the writer. When crafting your vision of a dystopia, one is going to want to add details to make sure people see it as negative. With modern medical science, this problem is entirely able to be eliminated. No hypothetical society is perfect. It still fails to be worse than our current world, and if you apply medical science that Huxley has no ability to know about this issue is easily eliminated. Even then, its a mere sci-fi version of issues that already exist in our modern world, and they’ve eliminated most of the issues we have. It’s a lot easier to solve the flaws in the world of Brave New World than our world. Even with this detail maintained, it’s still better off than our oppressive society. Most of what’s oppressive in that world eliminates misery. Everything oppressive in our world creates misery, oftentimes intentionally.
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** Strictly speaking, no. Hilariously, given The Savage's fondness for Shakespeare, the Bard had some good YourMom jokes in his repertoire. One standout example comes from TitusAndronicus:
--->'''Chiron:''' Thou hast undone our mother.
--->'''Aaron:''' Villain, I have done thy mother.

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** Strictly speaking, no. Hilariously, given The Savage's fondness for Shakespeare, the Bard had some good YourMom jokes in his repertoire. One standout example comes from TitusAndronicus:
''Theatre/TitusAndronicus'':
--->'''Chiron:''' Thou hast undone our mother.
--->'''Aaron:'''
mother.\\
'''Aaron:'''
Villain, I have done thy mother.
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** Third, in the event of catastrophic failure of the World State, the islands act as a failsafe to ensure humanity's survival. They are the most intelligent and free-thinking humans on Earth, which means that in the event of a full failure of the System they have the best chance of being able to build a new civilization.
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* Sending the "divergents" to the islands instead of culling them is not only in line with World State morality (since it allows them to attain their greatest level of happiness), it's also very smart policy for at least three reasons.
** First, it allows the World State to keep and make use of those divergent intellects. Even the World State can use true independent thinkers (to come up with new and better technology for propitiating the masses, if nothing else), and there is always the chance that some catastrophe or OutsideContextProblem may come up, in which case the World State may suddenly ''need'' that capacity for innovation. And if that day ever comes, those minds are right there on the islands, ready for use.
** Second, it helps ensure 100% divergent removal. If they culled the divergents, some at least would successfully hide themselves and undermine the system. But those who are smart enough to hide themselves are also smart enough to realize that the islands represent their best chance for a fulfilling life, and to deliberately get themselves sent there.
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--->'''Aaron:''' Villain, I have done thy mother.

to:

--->'''Aaron:''' Villain, I have done thy mother.mother.
----
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* 'Mother' is considered a filthy word, or even as a joke. Did this book predict YourMom as a joke?

to:

* 'Mother' is considered a filthy word, or even as a joke. Did this book predict YourMom as a joke?joke?
** Strictly speaking, no. Hilariously, given The Savage's fondness for Shakespeare, the Bard had some good YourMom jokes in his repertoire. One standout example comes from TitusAndronicus:
--->'''Chiron:''' Thou hast undone our mother.
--->'''Aaron:''' Villain, I have done thy mother.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Female femininity and sexuality don't seem to be under fire though, since the purpose of rendering her infertile is just to keep her from reproducing. The text makes it clear that a woman becoming androgynous is just an unfortunate side-effect rather than the desired outcome of their (outdated) methods of making her sterile, yet it's not one they're in a hurry to fix since social stability requires scientific/technological stagnation. (If someone were to look for a way to make women infertile without sacrificing her "femininity" they might discover a better way or that male sterilization is more effective and the whole system could get called into question!) However, it is a troubling DoubleStandard that ''only'' women have to take contraceptive measures while ''no men do''. (Meaning men get all the fun associated with sex, while women get all the responsibility.) Also the troubling DoubleStandard regarding fertility: That being a Father is an embarrassment, but being a Mother is the most shameful, disgusting, humiliating, revolting thing that can ever happen to a person. It seems that a woman's femininity and sexuality is fine (since her looking pretty means he gets to have his jollies, and her having casual sex means he gets to have casual sex), but her ''reproduction'' is certainly considered "disgusting and dangerous." It is certainly yet another society where female sexuality and reproduction is controlled.

to:

** Female femininity and sexuality don't seem to be under fire though, since the purpose of rendering her infertile is just to keep her from reproducing. The text makes it clear that a woman becoming androgynous is just an unfortunate side-effect rather than the desired outcome of their (outdated) methods of making her sterile, yet it's not one they're in a hurry to fix since social stability requires scientific/technological stagnation. (If someone were to look for a way to make women infertile without sacrificing her "femininity" they might discover a better way or that male sterilization is more effective and the whole system could get called into question!) However, it is a troubling DoubleStandard that ''only'' women have to take contraceptive measures while ''no men do''. (Meaning men get all the fun associated with sex, while women get all the responsibility.) Also the troubling DoubleStandard regarding fertility: That being a Father is an embarrassment, but being a Mother is the most shameful, disgusting, humiliating, revolting thing that can ever happen to a person. It seems that a woman's femininity and sexuality is fine (since her looking pretty means he gets to have his jollies, and her having casual sex means he gets to have casual sex), but her ''reproduction'' is certainly considered "disgusting and dangerous." It is certainly yet another society where female sexuality and reproduction is controlled.controlled.
* 'Mother' is considered a filthy word, or even as a joke. Did this book predict YourMom as a joke?
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None


* I've actually read arguments that this society "wouldn't be all that bad," without even adding the caveat "as long as you're an Alpha or Beta." No, it just sounds like a lot of fun -- everyone is happy, and everyone has lots of fun sex! Here's how supposedly sexually liberated this culture really is (doubles as FridgeHorror): Fertility is a "nuisance" to this society (as babies are made in factories and normal reproduction would seriously disrupt the system), yet they want everyone to be free to have the pleasure of sex as much as they want, whenever they want, with whomever they want. As they still need ovaries and sperm to produce their population, and a man can provide a relatively limitless supply of sperm compared to the limited number of eggs in one ovary, the simplest solution would seem to be to make most of their male population sterile, but what do they do? Make only 30% of their female population fertile and make the rest sterile and androgynous with a slight "tendency to grow beards." Say that again: Only 30% of all women are permitted to fully develop sexually, but ''all'' men are. All men are allowed to develop normally and enjoy their manhood to the fullest, but almost no women are -- 70% of the female population have had so much of their femininity removed, they're not even referred to as "female" but as "freemartin." The World State's "ideal" version of a perfectly stable society is one where women only make up 15% of the population, and all males are permitted to be born whole but 70% of females must be born mutilated and the equivalent of castrated. It's ''only'' female fertility they villify, not male, and only women's bodies that are treated as a threat to stability and must be restrained; we know that women are drilled to take contraceptives, but we never see any indication that men are drilled to use condoms. This isn't some open-minded, civilized, advanced land of sexual liberation; it's just another society where female sexuality is regarded as disgusting and dangerous, like so many before it, except they have the technology to better guard against it. Oh, brave new world, where the threat of woman has finally been neutralized!

to:

* I've actually read arguments that this society "wouldn't be all that bad," without even adding the caveat "as long as you're an Alpha or Beta." No, it just sounds like a lot of fun -- everyone is happy, and everyone has lots of fun sex! Here's how supposedly sexually liberated this culture really is (doubles as FridgeHorror): Fertility is a "nuisance" to this society (as babies are made in factories and normal reproduction would seriously disrupt the system), yet they want everyone to be free to have the pleasure of sex as much as they want, whenever they want, with whomever they want. As they still need ovaries and sperm to produce their population, and a man can provide a relatively limitless supply of sperm compared to the limited number of eggs in one ovary, the simplest solution would seem to be to make most of their male population sterile, but what do they do? Make only 30% of their female population fertile and make the rest sterile and androgynous with a slight "tendency to grow beards." Say that again: Only 30% of all women are permitted to fully develop sexually, but ''all'' men are. All men are allowed to develop normally and enjoy their manhood to the fullest, but almost no women are -- 70% of the female population have had so much of their femininity removed, they're not even referred to as "female" but as "freemartin." The World State's "ideal" version of a perfectly stable society is one where women only make up 15% of the population, and all males are permitted to be born whole but 70% of females must be born mutilated and the equivalent of castrated. It's ''only'' female fertility they villify, not male, and only women's bodies that are treated as a threat to stability and must be restrained; we know that women are drilled to take contraceptives, but we never see any indication that men are drilled to use condoms. This isn't some open-minded, civilized, advanced land of sexual liberation; it's just another society where female sexuality is regarded as disgusting and dangerous, like so many before it, except they have the technology to better guard against it. Oh, brave new world, where the threat of woman has finally been neutralized!neutralized!
** Female femininity and sexuality don't seem to be under fire though, since the purpose of rendering her infertile is just to keep her from reproducing. The text makes it clear that a woman becoming androgynous is just an unfortunate side-effect rather than the desired outcome of their (outdated) methods of making her sterile, yet it's not one they're in a hurry to fix since social stability requires scientific/technological stagnation. (If someone were to look for a way to make women infertile without sacrificing her "femininity" they might discover a better way or that male sterilization is more effective and the whole system could get called into question!) However, it is a troubling DoubleStandard that ''only'' women have to take contraceptive measures while ''no men do''. (Meaning men get all the fun associated with sex, while women get all the responsibility.) Also the troubling DoubleStandard regarding fertility: That being a Father is an embarrassment, but being a Mother is the most shameful, disgusting, humiliating, revolting thing that can ever happen to a person. It seems that a woman's femininity and sexuality is fine (since her looking pretty means he gets to have his jollies, and her having casual sex means he gets to have casual sex), but her ''reproduction'' is certainly considered "disgusting and dangerous." It is certainly yet another society where female sexuality and reproduction is controlled.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* I've actually read arguments that this society "wouldn't be all that bad," without even adding the caveat "as long as you're an Alpha or Beta." No, it just sounds like a lot of fun -- everyone is happy, and everyone has lots of fun sex! Here's how supposedly sexually liberated thi culture really is (doubles as FridgeHorror): Fertility is a "nuisance" to this society (as babies are made in factories and normal reproduction would seriously disrupt the system), yet they want everyone to be free to have the pleasure of sex as much as they want, whenever they want, with whomever they want. As they still need ovaries and sperm to produce their population, and a man can provide a relatively limitless supply of sperm compared to the limited number of eggs in one ovary, the simplest solution would seem to be to make most of their male population sterile, but what do they do? Make only 30% of their female population fertile and make the rest sterile and androgynous with a slight "tendency to grow beards." Say that again: Only 30% of all women are permitted to fully develop sexually, but ''all'' men are. All men are allowed to develop normally and enjoy their manhood to the fullest, but almost no women are -- 70% of the female population have had so much of their femininity removed, they're not even referred to as "female" but as "freemartin." The World State's "ideal" version of a perfectly stable society is one where women only make up 15% of the population, and all males are permitted to be born whole but 70% of females must be born mutilated and the equivalent of castrated. It's ''only'' female fertility they villify, not male, and only women's bodies that are treated as a threat to stability and must be restrained; we know that women are drilled to take contraceptives, but we never see any indication that men are drilled to use condoms. This isn't some open-minded, civilized, advanced land of sexual liberation; it's just another society where female sexuality is regarded as disgusting and dangerous -- absolutely nothing new.

to:

* I've actually read arguments that this society "wouldn't be all that bad," without even adding the caveat "as long as you're an Alpha or Beta." No, it just sounds like a lot of fun -- everyone is happy, and everyone has lots of fun sex! Here's how supposedly sexually liberated thi this culture really is (doubles as FridgeHorror): Fertility is a "nuisance" to this society (as babies are made in factories and normal reproduction would seriously disrupt the system), yet they want everyone to be free to have the pleasure of sex as much as they want, whenever they want, with whomever they want. As they still need ovaries and sperm to produce their population, and a man can provide a relatively limitless supply of sperm compared to the limited number of eggs in one ovary, the simplest solution would seem to be to make most of their male population sterile, but what do they do? Make only 30% of their female population fertile and make the rest sterile and androgynous with a slight "tendency to grow beards." Say that again: Only 30% of all women are permitted to fully develop sexually, but ''all'' men are. All men are allowed to develop normally and enjoy their manhood to the fullest, but almost no women are -- 70% of the female population have had so much of their femininity removed, they're not even referred to as "female" but as "freemartin." The World State's "ideal" version of a perfectly stable society is one where women only make up 15% of the population, and all males are permitted to be born whole but 70% of females must be born mutilated and the equivalent of castrated. It's ''only'' female fertility they villify, not male, and only women's bodies that are treated as a threat to stability and must be restrained; we know that women are drilled to take contraceptives, but we never see any indication that men are drilled to use condoms. This isn't some open-minded, civilized, advanced land of sexual liberation; it's just another society where female sexuality is regarded as disgusting and dangerous -- absolutely nothing new.dangerous, like so many before it, except they have the technology to better guard against it. Oh, brave new world, where the threat of woman has finally been neutralized!
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[[AC:Fridge Brilliance]]
* I've actually read arguments that this society "wouldn't be all that bad," without even adding the caveat "as long as you're an Alpha or Beta." No, it just sounds like a lot of fun -- everyone is happy, and everyone has lots of fun sex! Here's how supposedly sexually liberated thi culture really is (doubles as FridgeHorror): Fertility is a "nuisance" to this society (as babies are made in factories and normal reproduction would seriously disrupt the system), yet they want everyone to be free to have the pleasure of sex as much as they want, whenever they want, with whomever they want. As they still need ovaries and sperm to produce their population, and a man can provide a relatively limitless supply of sperm compared to the limited number of eggs in one ovary, the simplest solution would seem to be to make most of their male population sterile, but what do they do? Make only 30% of their female population fertile and make the rest sterile and androgynous with a slight "tendency to grow beards." Say that again: Only 30% of all women are permitted to fully develop sexually, but ''all'' men are. All men are allowed to develop normally and enjoy their manhood to the fullest, but almost no women are -- 70% of the female population have had so much of their femininity removed, they're not even referred to as "female" but as "freemartin." The World State's "ideal" version of a perfectly stable society is one where women only make up 15% of the population, and all males are permitted to be born whole but 70% of females must be born mutilated and the equivalent of castrated. It's ''only'' female fertility they villify, not male, and only women's bodies that are treated as a threat to stability and must be restrained; we know that women are drilled to take contraceptives, but we never see any indication that men are drilled to use condoms. This isn't some open-minded, civilized, advanced land of sexual liberation; it's just another society where female sexuality is regarded as disgusting and dangerous -- absolutely nothing new.

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