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Changed line(s) 150 (click to see context) from:
* ArcWords: "Right now, you're feeling helpless." While not a CatchPhrase of his, as he says it only once in the Pendulum Trap's tape, but it's particularly emphasized between ''Saw V'' and ''VI''as Hoffman descends further and further into villainy; in the latter, it plays on a progressively ominous-sounding BrokenRecord basis during a voice recognition process at the FBI's tech lab during the climax, setting the tone for Hoffman's brutal CurbStompBattle and subsequent slaughter of the agents once he's discovered.
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* ArcWords: "Right now, you're feeling helpless." While not a CatchPhrase of his, as he says it only once in the Pendulum Trap's tape, but it's particularly emphasized between ''Saw V'' and ''VI''as ''VI'' as Hoffman descends further and further into villainy; in the latter, it plays on a progressively ominous-sounding BrokenRecord basis during a voice recognition process at the FBI's tech lab during the climax, setting the tone for Hoffman's brutal CurbStompBattle and subsequent slaughter of the agents once he's discovered.
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Changed line(s) 405 (click to see context) from:
* HeroKiller: She personally kills Adam Stanheight (one of the two leads of the original ''Saw'') by suffocating him to death with a plastic bag out of mercy. She later causes the death of Detective Allison Kerry by placing her in an inescapable trap.
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* HeroKiller: She personally kills Adam Stanheight (one of the two leads of the original ''Saw'') by suffocating him to death with a plastic bag out of mercy. She later causes the death of Detective Allison Kerry (one of the most upstanding cops in the series) by placing her in an inescapable trap.trap and watching as it rips her apart.
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Changed line(s) 405 (click to see context) from:
* HeroKiller: She personally kills Adam Stanheight (one of the two leads of the original ''Saw'') by suffocating him to death out of mercy. She later causes the death of Detective Allison Kerry by placing her in an inescapable trap.
to:
* HeroKiller: She personally kills Adam Stanheight (one of the two leads of the original ''Saw'') by suffocating him to death with a plastic bag out of mercy. She later causes the death of Detective Allison Kerry by placing her in an inescapable trap.
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Added DiffLines:
* HeroKiller: She personally kills Adam Stanheight (one of the two leads of the original ''Saw'') by suffocating him to death out of mercy. She later causes the death of Detective Allison Kerry by placing her in an inescapable trap.
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* ProgressivelyPrettier: As noted above, she has a rather punkish, unkempt appearance in ''Saw II'', but looks much more polished and well-dressed in ''Saw III''.
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Didn't notice the mention of X above
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
** Amanda's villainous journey and training to be the next Jigsaw makes up the main plot arc of ''Saw II'' and ''III'', and is also briefly looked on in ''X''. Her relevance to the franchise's story mostly evaporates after her death in ''III'', since she doesn't influence people the way John does, though she does make a grand return as an important supporting character in ''Saw X''.
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** Amanda's villainous journey and training to be the next Jigsaw makes up the main plot arc of ''Saw II'' and ''III'', and is also briefly looked on in ''X''. Her relevance to the franchise's story mostly evaporates after her death in ''III'', since she doesn't influence people the way John does, though she does make a grand return as an important supporting character in ''Saw X''.does.
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Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
** Amanda's villainous journey and training to be the next Jigsaw makes up the main plot arc of ''Saw II'' and ''III'', and is also briefly looked on in ''X''. Her relevance to the franchise's story mostly evaporates after her death in ''III'', since she doesn't influence people the way John does.
to:
** Amanda's villainous journey and training to be the next Jigsaw makes up the main plot arc of ''Saw II'' and ''III'', and is also briefly looked on in ''X''. Her relevance to the franchise's story mostly evaporates after her death in ''III'', since she doesn't influence people the way John does.does, though she does make a grand return as an important supporting character in ''Saw X''.
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Changed line(s) 634,635 (click to see context) from:
* In “Saw VI”, he’s hung by a noose and slammed into the window William is watching Addy and Allen from; he is then lifted off screen.
* In “Saw 3D”, he’s placed in a little cage, reminiscent of the one Bobby started his game in, and thrown through a window to deliver the rules for Suzanne’s trap.
* In “Saw 3D”, he’s placed in a little cage, reminiscent of the one Bobby started his game in, and thrown through a window to deliver the rules for Suzanne’s trap.
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Changed line(s) 386 (click to see context) from:
** In ''Saw X'', Amanda is as horrified by Cecilia's cold-blooded ruthlessness as John is. She loses her shit when Cecilia nonchalantly snaps Gabriela's neck like she's killing an insect, and is disturbed when Cecilia places Carlos (a child) to die in the bloodboarding trap simply out of spite towards John.
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** In ''Saw X'', Amanda is as horrified by Cecilia's cold-blooded ruthlessness as John is. She loses her shit is deeply furious when Cecilia nonchalantly snaps Gabriela's neck like she's as casually as if she were killing an insect, and is disturbed when Cecilia places Carlos (a child) to die in the bloodboarding trap simply out of spite towards John.
Changed line(s) 416 (click to see context) from:
* PetTheDog: Regardless of the fact that she helped set up their situation, she still tries to help the other Nerve Gas House prisoners escape. Notably, Daniel Matthews, who Amanda could be forgiven to hate, as he's the son of the cop who ruined her life.
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* PetTheDog: PetTheDog:
** Regardless of the fact that she helped set up their situation, she still tries to help the other Nerve Gas House prisoners escape. Notably, Daniel Matthews, who Amanda could be forgiven to hate, as he's the son of the cop who ruined herlife.life.
** As a fellow addict, she empathizes with Gabriela and tries to arrange is so that she has a better chance at surviving.
** Regardless of the fact that she helped set up their situation, she still tries to help the other Nerve Gas House prisoners escape. Notably, Daniel Matthews, who Amanda could be forgiven to hate, as he's the son of the cop who ruined her
** As a fellow addict, she empathizes with Gabriela and tries to arrange is so that she has a better chance at surviving.
Changed line(s) 447 (click to see context) from:
* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: She's a murderer. She's also a recovering drug addict who was framed for a crime she didn't commit by a crooked cop, put in jail where she became addicted to heroin, and was put in a death trap which traumatized her for life, not mentioning how she claims in an early script of ''Saw III'' that she was severely abused by her father as a child.
to:
* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: She's Make no mistake, Amanda's a cold-blooded, sadistic murderer. She's also a recovering drug addict who was framed for a crime she didn't commit by a crooked cop, put in jail where she became addicted to heroin, and was put in a death trap which traumatized her for life, not mentioning how she claims in an early script of ''Saw III'' that she was severely abused by her father as a child.
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Changed line(s) 384 (click to see context) from:
* EvenEvilHasStandards: While her traps were inescapable, she believed that she was doing people a service by simply letting them die rather than leaving them to suffer after surviving as she did. A lot of her morality is shown through her actions with Adam; a deleted scene shows her having a guilt-ridden nightmare of his apparition asking her why she sent him to his death, and in ''Saw III'', rather than letting him starve or dehydrate to death, she delivers a MercyKill, gently saying she was going to help and free him, and genuinely sobbing the whole time.
to:
* EvenEvilHasStandards: EvenEvilHasStandards:
** While her traps were inescapable, she believed that she was doing people a service by simply letting them die rather than leaving them to suffer after surviving as she did. A lot of her morality is shown through her actions with Adam; a deleted scene shows her having a guilt-ridden nightmare of his apparition asking her why she sent him to his death, and in ''Saw III'', rather than letting him starve or dehydrate to death, she delivers a MercyKill, gently saying she was going to help and free him, and genuinely sobbing the wholetime.time.
** In ''Saw X'', Amanda is as horrified by Cecilia's cold-blooded ruthlessness as John is. She loses her shit when Cecilia nonchalantly snaps Gabriela's neck like she's killing an insect, and is disturbed when Cecilia places Carlos (a child) to die in the bloodboarding trap simply out of spite towards John.
** While her traps were inescapable, she believed that she was doing people a service by simply letting them die rather than leaving them to suffer after surviving as she did. A lot of her morality is shown through her actions with Adam; a deleted scene shows her having a guilt-ridden nightmare of his apparition asking her why she sent him to his death, and in ''Saw III'', rather than letting him starve or dehydrate to death, she delivers a MercyKill, gently saying she was going to help and free him, and genuinely sobbing the whole
** In ''Saw X'', Amanda is as horrified by Cecilia's cold-blooded ruthlessness as John is. She loses her shit when Cecilia nonchalantly snaps Gabriela's neck like she's killing an insect, and is disturbed when Cecilia places Carlos (a child) to die in the bloodboarding trap simply out of spite towards John.
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* RecoveredAddict: She's a former heroin addict.
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Changed line(s) 266 (click to see context) from:
** It's strongly implied in the flashbacks from ''Saw V'' that Hoffman had a long-term breakdown after being informed of his sister's death and seeing her corpse in person, given that the scenes set after this show him [[DrowningMySorrows as little more than a drunken mess]] and it's the thing that provokes his descent into misanthropy and vengance-fueled killing.
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** It's strongly implied in the flashbacks from ''Saw V'' that Hoffman had a long-term breakdown after being informed of his sister's death and seeing her corpse in person, given that the scenes set after this show him [[DrowningMySorrows as little more than a drunken mess]] and it's the thing that provokes his descent into misanthropy and vengance-fueled vengeance-fueled killing.
* ObfuscatingStupidity: Zigzagged. Hoffman comes off at first as poorly spoken and unintelligent, almost a CluelessDetective in ''Saw IV'' compared to the much brighter Agent Strahm. Of course, the reveal that he's an accomplice does show he's quite capable of using police resources and covering his tracks, but as the movies go on, Hoffman's shown as ultimately not a schemer. His flawed methodology is taken apart on analysis by both John and Erickson and he gets by more with his willpower and brutality instead of his brains and planning.
Changed line(s) 474 (click to see context) from:
* LighterShadeOfBlack: Despite being revealed as an accomplice, he’s one of the more moral ones of the group. He never creates a trap, he bows out after the events of the third and fourth films, and he’s the one who neutralizes Hoffman after the latter went nuts trying to kill Jill.
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* LighterShadeOfBlack: ALighterShadeOfBlack: Despite being revealed as an accomplice, he’s one of the more moral ones of the group. He never creates a trap, he bows out after the events of the third and fourth films, and he’s the one who neutralizes Hoffman after the latter went nuts trying to kill Jill.
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* EvilVsEvil: He’s John’s secret accomplice, who is entrusted to avenge Jill and punish the rouge successor, Hoffman.
* LighterShadeOfBlack: Despite being revealed as an accomplice, he’s one of the more moral ones of the group. He never creates a trap, he bows out after the events of the third and fourth films, and he’s the one who neutralizes Hoffman after the latter went nuts trying to kill Jill.
* AvengingTheVillain: She’s entrusted to test Hoffman with an upgraded Reverse Beartrap after John’s death, but she attempts to execute him with the device instead after learning that he blackmailed Amanda with knowledge in her role in Gideon’s death and forced her to sabotage John’s final game, which lead to her death, John’s, and the Denlons ([[InfantImmortality sans Corbett]]), all so he could take control of the Jigsaw mantle.
* CatScare: He mostly just appears via a television broadcast or a taped message, but when he physically appears, he does so in ways to scare the victims:
** He’s mostly appears being dramatically wheeled out of a hiding spot.
** In the third movie, he’s placed toppled over in a hallway to imitate Jeff’s son’s after he was ran over.
** Subverted in the following movie; Agents Strahm and Perez find him in an empty room, but Billy’s head explodes, maiming Perez.
* In “Saw VI”, he’s hung by a noose and slammed into the window William is watching Addy and Allen from; he is then lifted off screen.
* In “Saw 3D”, he’s placed in a little cage, reminiscent of the one Bobby started his game in, and thrown through a window to deliver the rules for Suzanne’s trap.
** He’s mostly appears being dramatically wheeled out of a hiding spot.
** In the third movie, he’s placed toppled over in a hallway to imitate Jeff’s son’s after he was ran over.
** Subverted in the following movie; Agents Strahm and Perez find him in an empty room, but Billy’s head explodes, maiming Perez.
* In “Saw VI”, he’s hung by a noose and slammed into the window William is watching Addy and Allen from; he is then lifted off screen.
* In “Saw 3D”, he’s placed in a little cage, reminiscent of the one Bobby started his game in, and thrown through a window to deliver the rules for Suzanne’s trap.
Changed line(s) 624 (click to see context) from:
* DemotedToExtra: In ''Saw X'', he appears on his tricyle to "deliver" Mateo's surgical equipment on a cart that the latter would need to use on himself for his test and once more to deliver Gabriela's tape and recorder to her, but that's it. He isn't removed afterwards and is visbly left behind when John, Amanda, and Carlos leave the factory; Billy wasn't even used to "speak" to the con-artists, though this may be justified in the sense that [[OOCISSeriousBusiness John's so enraged by them conning him that he isn't willing to screw around with Billy for this particular game]], choosing instead to berate and instruct the victims in person and through a transparent window.
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* DemotedToExtra: In ''Saw X'', he appears on his tricyle tricycle to "deliver" Mateo's surgical equipment on a cart that the latter would need to use on himself for his test and once more to deliver Gabriela's tape and recorder to her, but that's it. He isn't removed afterwards and is visbly left behind when John, Amanda, and Carlos leave the factory; Billy wasn't even used to "speak" to the con-artists, though this may be justified in the sense that [[OOCISSeriousBusiness John's so enraged by them conning him that he isn't willing to screw around with Billy for this particular game]], choosing instead to berate and instruct the victims in person and through a transparent window.
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** In the second film, he had a visible waistcoat, which disappeared in later films.
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* MissionControl: His purpose is to introduce the victims to their games or tests and explain to win. However, [[MissionControlIsOffItsMeds his advice is sometimes cryptic and requires rethinking the meaning of what he says]].
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Changed line(s) 610 (click to see context) from:
!!!'''Voiced By:''' Creator/Tobin Bell
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!!!'''Voiced By:''' Creator/Tobin Bell Creator/TobinBell
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I moved tropes about Logan before the reveal moved to his other entry on the 3D to X character page.
Deleted line(s) 96 (click to see context) :
* GoodParents: Is a loving father to his daughter Melissa.
Deleted line(s) 106 (click to see context) :
* MyGreatestFailure: Accidentally mislabeled John's cranial X-ray, resulting in his cancer being found too late for treatment, becoming indirectly responsible for setting off the chain of events that [[UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom led to John becoming Jigsaw to begin with]].
Deleted line(s) 111 (click to see context) :
* RecoveredAddict: A FreezeFrameBonus when Halloran is going through Logan's military file noticably mentions a "relapse" in the aftermath of his wife's death. What precisely that "relapse" involved is never revealed, but it's pretty evident that it wasn't anything good.
Deleted line(s) 117 (click to see context) :
* UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom: When he was still an intern, he accidentally mislabeled two x-rays, resulting in John's brain tumor not being found until it was too late.
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Hoffman is the only one who can really be called worse, since we don't see enough of Gordon post-amputation to say if he qualifies as a darker shade than Amanda
Changed line(s) 411 (click to see context) from:
* ALighterShadeOfGrey: Unlike other members in Jigsaw's first assemble from the first movie to ''3D'', it's made clear that while villainous, Amanda is a ''deeply'' troubled person, and demonstrates remorse and emotional instability far too great for a sociopath.
to:
* ALighterShadeOfGrey: Unlike other members in Jigsaw's first assemble from the first movie to ''3D'', Hoffman, it's made clear that while villainous, Amanda is a ''deeply'' troubled person, and demonstrates remorse and emotional instability far too great for a sociopath.
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* HeroKiller: He kills or causes the deaths of several heroic characters, such as Strahm, Perez, and Erickson.
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Changed line(s) 483 (click to see context) from:
** A FreezeFrameBonus in ''Saw V'' shows a file with Adam's name on it as Strahm goes through the folders of information on Jigsaw's victims. Given that none of the other apprentices ever cooperated with the police at any point and therefore never could have mentioned it, that John never seems to make any particular effort to have his kills acknowledged by law enforcement, and that the bathroom trap's existence seems to be entirely unknown to outsiders (Adam, Zepp, and Xavier's bodies are all still there by the end of ''3D,)'' this would almost certainly mean that Lawrence, who would have been one of the only people aware that Adam was dead, took the risk of getting involved enough with the police to make sure that his death and disappearance would wind up acknowledged.
to:
** A FreezeFrameBonus in ''Saw V'' shows a file with Adam's name on it as Strahm goes through the folders of information on Jigsaw's victims. Given that none of the other apprentices ever cooperated with the police at any point and therefore never could have mentioned it, that John never seems to make any particular effort to have his kills acknowledged by law enforcement, and that the bathroom trap's existence seems to be entirely unknown to outsiders (Adam, Zepp, Zep, and Xavier's bodies are all still there by the end of ''3D,)'' ''3D)'', this would almost certainly mean that Lawrence, who would have been one of the only people aware that Adam was dead, took the risk of getting involved enough with the police to make sure that his death and disappearance would wind up acknowledged.
Deleted line(s) 489 (click to see context) :
* SarcasticClapping: He does it (along with sarcastic verbal applause) at the Jigsaw Survivor Group meeting in ''Film/Saw3D'' after Bobby gives a particularly dramatic, self-serving speech to its members.
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Trope is about Gordon's character in the first film
Deleted line(s) 475 (click to see context) :
* ICantLookGesture: As soon as Adam delivers the first blow to Zep's skull, Lawrence immediately puts his head down and looks away.
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It seems to me that the tropes listed here should only be related to Gordon's spoilery role as a Jigsaw accomplice. Everything about his character in the first film and in 3D pre-reveal should be listed on th Saw I to III page.
Deleted line(s) 459,460 (click to see context) :
* AnArmAndALeg: Cuts off his right foot in order to escape at the climax of the first film.
* ApologeticAttacker: He tells Adam he's sorry as he shoots him to save his wife and daughter, and breaks down screaming and crying afterwards.
* ApologeticAttacker: He tells Adam he's sorry as he shoots him to save his wife and daughter, and breaks down screaming and crying afterwards.
Deleted line(s) 465 (click to see context) :
* BleedEmAndWeep: He was already desperate and near-tears when he picks up the gun to shoot Adam, but the second he pulls the trigger and Adam falls to the floor, he breaks down sobbing and screaming.
Deleted line(s) 467,469 (click to see context) :
* ClusterFBomb: He delivers a litany of them during the climax of the first movie, after having kept himself completely devoid of swearing up until that point.
-->'''Lawrence, trying to attack Zep''': You bastard! I'll fucking kill you! I'll fucking kill you! '''YOU FUCKING BASTARD! I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU!'''
* DeadpanSnarker: He only seemed to show up to Bobby's meeting to snark at him.
-->'''Lawrence, trying to attack Zep''': You bastard! I'll fucking kill you! I'll fucking kill you! '''YOU FUCKING BASTARD! I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU!'''
* DeadpanSnarker: He only seemed to show up to Bobby's meeting to snark at him.
Deleted line(s) 477 (click to see context) :
* FatalFamilyPhoto: Notably averted. Gordon shows Adam a picture of his family in the first movie, and yet he is still alive in the seventh one. Considering the series' ludicrously high mortality rate, his survival would be impressive even if he didn't tempt fate with this trope.
Deleted line(s) 482 (click to see context) :
* FreakOut: Goes completely nuts when he thinks his family has been killed, leading to him cutting off his foot and shooting Adam.
Deleted line(s) 486,487 (click to see context) :
* MetaphoricallyTrue: In the first film, he says that newspapers dubbing the Jigsaw Killer as such is inaccurate, because technically speaking, he never killed anyone directly; he just puts them in situations where death is very likely. The point is really moot, as almost any jurisdiction would consider putting someone in such a situation to be murder, combined with other possible crimes like kidnapping. ''Saw II'' does at least have the {{Jerkass}} detective Eric call Jigsaw out on this defense: "putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to pull the trigger is still murder." Plus, that ignores one of the flashbacks to Lawrence's explanation of Jigsaw, in which the latter lures Sing into a booby trap, resulting in his death; this was in turn preceded by a very straightforward attempt to murder Tapp by slashing his throat.
* MrExposition: He serves this purpose in the first film to explain the previous Jigsaw incidents and Tapp's story.
* MrExposition: He serves this purpose in the first film to explain the previous Jigsaw incidents and Tapp's story.
Changed line(s) 492 (click to see context) from:
* PetTheDog: WordOfGod confirms that his desire to go back and rescue Adam from where he'd left him in the bathroom trap was entirely genuine, and was only unable to because Amanda had already intervened and killed him herself by the time he was in any sort of position to manage it.
to:
* PetTheDog: PetTheDog:
** WordOfGod confirms that his desire to go back and rescue Adam from where he'd left him in the bathroom trap was entirely genuine, and was only unable to because Amanda had already intervened and killed him herself by the time he was in any sort of position to manage it.
** WordOfGod confirms that his desire to go back and rescue Adam from where he'd left him in the bathroom trap was entirely genuine, and was only unable to because Amanda had already intervened and killed him herself by the time he was in any sort of position to manage it.
Deleted line(s) 501,502 (click to see context) :
* ThatLiarLies: After being told by his wife that Adam is lying. "Stop the lies! You're a liar!"
* UncertainDoom: His fate was left hanging and never made clear until the seventh film.
* UncertainDoom: His fate was left hanging and never made clear until the seventh film.
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Changed line(s) 500 (click to see context) from:
* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Goes from being another of John's victims in ''Saw'' to one of his loyal disciples by the time of ''3D''.
to:
* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Goes from being another of John's many victims in ''Saw'' to one of his loyal disciples by the time of ''3D''.
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* ALighterShadeOfGrey: Unlike other members in Jigsaw's first assemble from the first movie to ''3D'', it's made clear that while villainous, Amanda is a ''deeply'' troubled person, and demonstrates remorse and emotional instability far too great for a sociopath.
Deleted line(s) 426 (click to see context) :
* TheSociopath: Averted, unlike other members in Jigsaw's first assemble from the first movie to ''3D''. It's made clear that while villainous, Amanda is a ''deeply'' troubled person, and demonstrates remorse and emotional instability far too great for a sociopath.
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Added DiffLines:
* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Goes from being another of John's victims in ''Saw'' to one of his loyal disciples by the time of ''3D''.
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Changed line(s) 494 (click to see context) from:
* RealLifeWritesThePlot: Cary Elwes got into a legal dispute with Lionsgate after the first movie over his claim of not being properly compensated for his work, which took some time to get settled out of court. So, before ''3D'', there was many times where Dr. Gordon was referenced but never showed up, and the series had many other cameos from victim characters besides him, and the directors behind the scenes mentioned that Elwes would decline to come back. Eventually he does come BackForTheFinale for ''3D'', which was the original GrandFinale to the series.
to:
* RealLifeWritesThePlot: Cary Elwes got into a legal dispute with Lionsgate after the first movie over his claim of not being properly compensated for his work, which work on that film, This took some time to get settled out of court. So, before ''3D'', there was many times where Dr. Gordon was referenced but never showed up, and the series had many other cameos from victim characters besides him, and the him. The directors behind the scenes mentioned that Elwes would decline to come back.back each movie when asked. Eventually he does come BackForTheFinale for ''3D'', which was the original GrandFinale to the series.
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!!!'''Portrayed By:''' Himself (movies)
!!!'''Voiced By:''' Creator/Tobin Bell
!!!'''Voiced By:''' Creator/Tobin Bell
* DemotedToExtra: In ''Saw X'', he appears on his tricyle to "deliver" Mateo's surgical equipment on a cart that the latter would need to use on himself for his test and once more to deliver Gabriela's tape and recorder to her, but that's it. He isn't removed afterwards and is visbly left behind when John, Amanda, and Carlos leave the factory; Billy wasn't even used to "speak" to the con-artists, though this may be justified in the sense that [[OOCISSeriousBusiness John's so enraged by them conning him that he isn't willing to screw around with Billy for this particular game]], choosing instead to berate and instruct the victims in person and through a transparent window.
Changed line(s) 644 (click to see context) from:
* LaterInstallmentWeirdness: In ''Jigsaw'', Billy has curly hair, glowing red eyes, and appears to be slightly larger than (chronologically) later versions of the puppet. ''Saw X'' brings him closer to his old appearance.
to:
* LaterInstallmentWeirdness: In ''Jigsaw'', Billy has curly hair, glowing red eyes, and appears to be slightly larger than (chronologically) later versions of the puppet. ''Saw X'' brings him closer to his old appearance.appearance, as that film was set between the first and second movies.
Changed line(s) 652 (click to see context) from:
** A version of Billy in ''Jigsaw'' had glowing red eyes, but it appears that John dropped that feature for future puppets after the barn game.
to:
** A version of Billy in ''Jigsaw'' had glowing ''glowing'' red eyes, but it appears that John dropped that feature for future puppets after the barn game.
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%%
%% Image kept on page per Image Pickin thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16986515400.57133500
%% Please don't change or remove without starting a new thread.
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%% Image kept on page per Image Pickin thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16986515400.57133500
%% Please don't change or remove without starting a new thread.
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Changed line(s) 327,328 (click to see context) from:
[[quoteright:1000:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/amanda_young_blood.jpg]]
[[caption-width-right:1000:''"I found myself a father... a leader... a teacher."'']]
[[caption-width-right:1000:''"I found myself a father... a leader... a teacher."'']]
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%% Image selected per Image Pickin thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16986515400.57133500
%% Please don't change or remove without starting a new thread.
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[[quoteright:350:https://static.tvtropes.
[[caption-width-right:1000:''"I
[[caption-width-right:350:''"I found myself a father... a leader... a teacher."'']]
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Deleted line(s) 297,299 (click to see context) :
* TeethClenchedTeamwork: Despite being in John's inner circle, Hoffman is never friendly or devoted to him the way that the other apprentices are.
** John's interactions with Hoffman are never warm (like John's are with Amanda) and Hoffman never seems to forget that they only met and worked together because John kidnapped and blackmailed him. He ultimately chooses to do the games more for his own sadism, rather than believing John's philosophy. Though Hoffman did respect John enough to closely follow John's instructions regarding the games after his death.
** Hoffman and Amanda can barely stand to be around each other. It's implied Amanda was threatened by Hoffman as competition for John's approval and affections (something that Hoffman never seemed to seek out), and Hoffman mostly saw Amanda as a pathetic self-harming junkie. This is probably a major reason why Hoffman sabotages Amanda's game.
** John's interactions with Hoffman are never warm (like John's are with Amanda) and Hoffman never seems to forget that they only met and worked together because John kidnapped and blackmailed him. He ultimately chooses to do the games more for his own sadism, rather than believing John's philosophy. Though Hoffman did respect John enough to closely follow John's instructions regarding the games after his death.
** Hoffman and Amanda can barely stand to be around each other. It's implied Amanda was threatened by Hoffman as competition for John's approval and affections (something that Hoffman never seemed to seek out), and Hoffman mostly saw Amanda as a pathetic self-harming junkie. This is probably a major reason why Hoffman sabotages Amanda's game.
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* TeethClenchedTeamwork: Despite being the most experienced and competent member of John's inner circle, Hoffman is never friendly or devoted to him the way that the other apprentices are.
** John's interactions with Hoffman are never warm (like John's are with Amanda), and Hoffman never seems to forget that they only met and worked together because John kidnapped and blackmailed him. After deliberately causing John's death via indirect means during the events of ''Saw III'' and ''IV'', he ultimately chooses to set up and execute John's remaining planned games for his own sadism, rather than because he believed in John's philosophy. Hoffman does appear to be respectful enough to closely follow the instructions John had posthumously left him for said games, though.
** Hoffman and Amanda can barely stand to be around each other. It's strongly implied Amanda felt threatened by Hoffman as competition for John's approval and/or affection (something that Hoffman never seemed to seek out), and Hoffman merely saw Amanda as a pathetic self-harming junkie. This is probably a major reason why Hoffman sabotages Amanda's SecretTestOfCharacter in ''III''.
** John's interactions with Hoffman are never warm (like John's are with Amanda), and Hoffman never seems to forget that they only met and worked together because John kidnapped and blackmailed him. After deliberately causing John's death via indirect means during the events of ''Saw III'' and ''IV'', he ultimately chooses to set up and execute John's remaining planned games for his own sadism, rather than because he believed in John's philosophy. Hoffman does appear to be respectful enough to closely follow the instructions John had posthumously left him for said games, though.
** Hoffman and Amanda can barely stand to be around each other. It's strongly implied Amanda felt threatened by Hoffman as competition for John's approval and/or affection (something that Hoffman never seemed to seek out), and Hoffman merely saw Amanda as a pathetic self-harming junkie. This is probably a major reason why Hoffman sabotages Amanda's SecretTestOfCharacter in ''III''.
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* LastNameBasis: He's referred to as Hoffman by almost everyone, and very rarely do people use his first name. One notable time it was used was when John was asking him [[ArmorPiercingQuestion if he likes how brutality feels]].
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* LastNameBasis: He's referred to as Hoffman by almost everyone, and very rarely do people use his first name. One notable time it he was used referred to as Mark was when John was asking asked him [[ArmorPiercingQuestion if he likes how brutality feels]]. feels in a flashback from ''Film/SawVI''.
Changed line(s) 310 (click to see context) from:
* UncertainDoom: Whether Hoffman perished from Lawrence imprisoning him is currently left in the air. Although [[invoked]]WordOfGod in ''Saw 3D''[='s=] DVDCommentary indicated he died (and that Gordon removed any means Hoffman could have taken advantage of to free himself, like the toilet lid Eric Matthews used to smash his foot in ''Saw III''), Costas Mandylor was asked to reprise his role, but this was put on hold with changes to developmental plans for future installments in the series. Since the release of ''Spiral'', Darren Lynn Bousman claimed that there are discussions to bring back Hoffman for a later movie. He comes back in ''X'', which is an {{Interquel}}.
to:
* UncertainDoom: Whether Hoffman perished from Lawrence imprisoning him is currently left in the air. Although [[invoked]]WordOfGod in ''Saw 3D''[='s=] DVDCommentary indicated he died (and that Gordon removed any means Hoffman could have taken advantage of to free himself, like the toilet lid Eric Matthews used to smash his foot in ''Saw III''), Costas Mandylor was asked to reprise his role, but this was put on hold with changes to developmental plans for future installments in the series. Since After the release of ''Spiral'', Darren Lynn Bousman claimed that there are were discussions to bring back Hoffman for a later movie. He comes back Eventually, Hoffman made his first appearance since ''3D'' in ''X'', which is an {{Interquel}}.
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* TookALevelInBadass: Over the course of ''Saw VI'', twice, and both at times when it seems like he's going down in defeat.
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* TookALevelInBadass: Over the course of ''Saw VI'', twice, and both at times when it seems like he's going down in defeat. And then even moreso in ''3D''.
Changed line(s) 309,311 (click to see context) from:
** This gets exaggerated in ''Saw 3D'' where Hoffman is on the run from police, finds time to set up traps, and performs very complex plans on his own. This culminates with him assaulting a police station and killing over a dozen police officers like he's [[Franchise/{{Terminator}} The Terminator]]. He succeeds without getting meaningfully hurt and only gets captured later by Dr. Gordon. ''3D'' turns from a serial killer trying to keep his head down to a full-on supervillain, like the type seen in action thriller movies.
* UncertainDoom: Whether Hoffman perished from Lawrence imprisoning him is currently left in the air. Although [[invoked]]WordOfGod in ''Saw 3D''[='s=] DVDCommentary indicated he died (and that Gordon removed any means Hoffman could have taken advantage of to free himself, like the toilet lid Eric Matthews used to smash his foot in ''Saw III''), Costas Mandylor was asked to reprise his role, but this was put on hold with changes to developmental plans for future installments in the series. Since the release of ''Spiral'', Darren Lynn Bousman claimed that there are discussions to bring back Hoffman for a later movie. He comes back in X as a prequel.
* VilerNewVillain: While he's not necessarily introduced as such, Hoffman is progressively shown to be a much more immoral and dangerous BigBad than John, as well as later killers and copycats, being one of the very few who directly murders people without using death traps. He eventually becomes an absolute sociopath with his VillainousBreakdown throughout ''Saw 3D''.
* UncertainDoom: Whether Hoffman perished from Lawrence imprisoning him is currently left in the air. Although [[invoked]]WordOfGod in ''Saw 3D''[='s=] DVDCommentary indicated he died (and that Gordon removed any means Hoffman could have taken advantage of to free himself, like the toilet lid Eric Matthews used to smash his foot in ''Saw III''), Costas Mandylor was asked to reprise his role, but this was put on hold with changes to developmental plans for future installments in the series. Since the release of ''Spiral'', Darren Lynn Bousman claimed that there are discussions to bring back Hoffman for a later movie. He comes back in X as a prequel.
* VilerNewVillain: While he's not necessarily introduced as such, Hoffman is progressively shown to be a much more immoral and dangerous BigBad than John, as well as later killers and copycats, being one of the very few who directly murders people without using death traps. He eventually becomes an absolute sociopath with his VillainousBreakdown throughout ''Saw 3D''.
to:
** This gets exaggerated in ''Saw 3D'' where Hoffman is on the run from police, finds time to set up traps, and performs very complex plans on his own. This culminates with him assaulting a police station and killing over a dozen police officers like he's [[Franchise/{{Terminator}} The Terminator]]. He succeeds without getting meaningfully hurt and only gets captured later by Dr. Gordon. ''3D'' turns him from a serial killer trying to keep his head down to a full-on supervillain, like the type seen in action thriller movies.
* UncertainDoom: Whether Hoffman perished from Lawrence imprisoning him is currently left in the air. Although [[invoked]]WordOfGod in ''Saw 3D''[='s=] DVDCommentary indicated he died (and that Gordon removed any means Hoffman could have taken advantage of to free himself, like the toilet lid Eric Matthews used to smash his foot in ''Saw III''), Costas Mandylor was asked to reprise his role, but this was put on hold with changes to developmental plans for future installments in the series. Since the release of ''Spiral'', Darren Lynn Bousman claimed that there are discussions to bring back Hoffman for a later movie. He comes back inX as a prequel.
''X'', which is an {{Interquel}}.
* VilerNewVillain: While he's not necessarily introduced as such, Hoffman is progressively shown to be a much more immoral and dangerous BigBad thanJohn, as well as John (and even later killers and copycats, copycats), being one of the very few who directly murders people without using death traps. He eventually becomes an absolute sociopath with his VillainousBreakdown throughout ''Saw 3D''.
* UncertainDoom: Whether Hoffman perished from Lawrence imprisoning him is currently left in the air. Although [[invoked]]WordOfGod in ''Saw 3D''[='s=] DVDCommentary indicated he died (and that Gordon removed any means Hoffman could have taken advantage of to free himself, like the toilet lid Eric Matthews used to smash his foot in ''Saw III''), Costas Mandylor was asked to reprise his role, but this was put on hold with changes to developmental plans for future installments in the series. Since the release of ''Spiral'', Darren Lynn Bousman claimed that there are discussions to bring back Hoffman for a later movie. He comes back in
* VilerNewVillain: While he's not necessarily introduced as such, Hoffman is progressively shown to be a much more immoral and dangerous BigBad than
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* ClingyJealousGirl: A non-romantic version towards John. Amanda is shown feeling threatened when John has someone close to him or expresses affection for him. When John, while delirious during surgery, mistakes Lynn for Jill and says he loves her, Amanda angrily leaves and self-harms. Amanda's dislike of Hoffman is heavily implied to be because she didn't like the competition for John's attention and legacy.
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* ClingyJealousGirl: A non-romantic version towards John. Amanda is shown feeling threatened when John has someone close to him or expresses affection for him. When John, while John (while delirious during surgery, surgery) mistakes Lynn for Jill and says he loves her, Amanda angrily leaves and self-harms. Amanda's dislike of Hoffman is heavily implied to be because she didn't like the competition for John's attention and legacy.
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* DramaticUnmask: Does it upon himself in his sudden appearance shortly after the climax of ''3D'', apparently in response to Hoffman's "What the fuck?"
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* DramaticUnmask: Does it upon himself in his sudden appearance shortly after the climax of ''3D'', apparently in which prompts the response to Hoffman's from Hoffman "What the fuck?"
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* RealLifeWritesThePlot: Cary Elwes got into a legal dispute with Lionsgate after the first movie over his claim of not being properly compensated for his work, which took some time to get settled out of court. So, before ''3D'', there was many times where Dr. Gordon was referenced but never showed up, and the series had many other cameos from victim characters besides him, and the directors behind the scenes mentioned that Elwes would decline to come back. Eventually he does come BackForTheFinale for ''3D'', which was the original GrandFinale to the series.
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* {{Retcon}}: Gordon was not intended to be the hooded figure in ''Saw II''. Director Darren Lynn Bousman played the figure as John and portrayed him with a limp to show the progression of his cancer. It being Gordon became a popular fan theory and ''3D'' made it canon.
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* UnknownRival: To Hoffman. Gordon is the person who wrote the threatening note ("I know who you are") to Hoffman in ''V'', but Hoffman seems to think that Jill or Strahm wrote it. When Gordon kidnaps him at the end of ''Saw 3D'', Hoffman reacts mostly with confusion. They don't have any significant dialogue, and Gordon never even tells Hoffman why he's trapping him in the bathroom to die.
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Added DiffLines:
* LastNameBasis: He's referred to as Hoffman by almost everyone, and very rarely do people use his first name. One notable time it was used was when John was asking him [[ArmorPiercingQuestion if he likes how brutality feels]].
Added DiffLines:
* TeethClenchedTeamwork: Despite being in John's inner circle, Hoffman is never friendly or devoted to him the way that the other apprentices are.
** John's interactions with Hoffman are never warm (like John's are with Amanda) and Hoffman never seems to forget that they only met and worked together because John kidnapped and blackmailed him. He ultimately chooses to do the games more for his own sadism, rather than believing John's philosophy. Though Hoffman did respect John enough to closely follow John's instructions regarding the games after his death.
** Hoffman and Amanda can barely stand to be around each other. It's implied Amanda was threatened by Hoffman as competition for John's approval and affections (something that Hoffman never seemed to seek out), and Hoffman mostly saw Amanda as a pathetic self-harming junkie. This is probably a major reason why Hoffman sabotages Amanda's game.
** John's interactions with Hoffman are never warm (like John's are with Amanda) and Hoffman never seems to forget that they only met and worked together because John kidnapped and blackmailed him. He ultimately chooses to do the games more for his own sadism, rather than believing John's philosophy. Though Hoffman did respect John enough to closely follow John's instructions regarding the games after his death.
** Hoffman and Amanda can barely stand to be around each other. It's implied Amanda was threatened by Hoffman as competition for John's approval and affections (something that Hoffman never seemed to seek out), and Hoffman mostly saw Amanda as a pathetic self-harming junkie. This is probably a major reason why Hoffman sabotages Amanda's game.
Added DiffLines:
* ClingyJealousGirl: A non-romantic version towards John. Amanda is shown feeling threatened when John has someone close to him or expresses affection for him. When John, while delirious during surgery, mistakes Lynn for Jill and says he loves her, Amanda angrily leaves and self-harms. Amanda's dislike of Hoffman is heavily implied to be because she didn't like the competition for John's attention and legacy.
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Changed line(s) 503 (click to see context) from:
* ClimacticMusic: Zep is more known for the fact that the franchise's climax {{Leitmotif}}, "Hello Zepp", is named after him ([[InconsistentSpelling though his name's spelling is altered]] as a ShoutOut to the band Zapp), rather than his actual role in the first movie. It ended up becoming an ArtifactTitle, as later films stopped giving variations of "Hello Zepp" new names (e.g. "Hello Eric", "Let Go") and just go with "Zepp (the number of the movie)".
to:
* ClimacticMusic: Zep is more known for the fact that the franchise's climax {{Leitmotif}}, "Hello Zepp", is named after him ([[InconsistentSpelling though his name's spelling is altered]] as a ShoutOut to the band Zapp), rather than his actual role in the first movie. It ended up becoming an ArtifactTitle, as later ''Film/SawV'' and the films thereafter stopped giving variations of "Hello Zepp" new names (e.g. "Hello Eric", "Final Test", "Let Go") and just go with "Zepp (the number of the movie)".
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Changed line(s) 503 (click to see context) from:
* ClimacticMusic: Zep is more known for the fact that the franchise's climax {{Leitmotif}}, "Hello Zepp", is named after him ([[InconsistentSpelling though his name's spelling is altered]] as a ShoutOut to the band Zapp), rather than his actual role in the first movie. It ended up becoming an ArtifactTitle, as later films stopped giving variations of "Hello Zepp" new names (e.g. "Hello Eric", "Let Go") and just go with "Zepp (The number of the movie)".
to:
* ClimacticMusic: Zep is more known for the fact that the franchise's climax {{Leitmotif}}, "Hello Zepp", is named after him ([[InconsistentSpelling though his name's spelling is altered]] as a ShoutOut to the band Zapp), rather than his actual role in the first movie. It ended up becoming an ArtifactTitle, as later films stopped giving variations of "Hello Zepp" new names (e.g. "Hello Eric", "Let Go") and just go with "Zepp (The (the number of the movie)".