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To briefly describe it, the fanbase has been divided on several aspects: which game is the best of the series, [[CasualCompetitiveConflict and whether the games should be played casually or competitively]], which leads to divisions regarding the use of items and which stages to play with, creating CharacterTiers, and of course who should be on the roster. Many unofficial ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' themed boards and forums, for example Smash Boards or /r/smashbros, generally have a large divide between casual and competitive players, with the most vocal being seen as the stereotypical fans.


%% Please make sure any future examples follow the guidelines on the main page. This page has had a history of misuse and it will be for the better if it never happens again.

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%% Please make sure any future examples follow the guidelines on the main page. This page has had a history of misuse and it will be for the better if it never happens goes down that route again.


* '''[[SpotlightStealingCrossover Perceived Over-representation]]''': Multiple franchises have been hit with periodic outrage, arguing that they have too much focus on them, while smaller series' languish from a lack of content. The fans of those franchises are similarly vocal in their pleasure that their series is receiving so much love, and point out how it's up to the developers to decide what's most deserving of a push or not.

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* '''[[SpotlightStealingCrossover Perceived Over-representation]]''': Multiple franchises have been hit with periodic outrage, arguing that they have too much focus on them, while smaller series' languish from a lack of content. The fans of those franchises are similarly vocal in their pleasure that their series is receiving so much love, and point out how it's up to the developers right of the developers/publishers to decide what's most deserving of a push or not.


* '''[[SpotlightStealingCrossover Perceived Over-representation]]''': Famously, ''Franchise/SuperMarioBros'', ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'', and ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' have all been hit with a bat saying that they have too much focus on them, with franchises such as ''Franchise/{{Metroid}}'' and ''Franchise/DonkeyKong'' languishing from a lack of content. The fans of those franchises are similarly vocal in their pleasure that their series is receiving so much love, and point out that the reason they get so much attention in the first place is because they are much, much bigger than every other franchise in the game and have thus "earned" their exposure.

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* '''[[SpotlightStealingCrossover Perceived Over-representation]]''': Famously, ''Franchise/SuperMarioBros'', ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'', and ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' Multiple franchises have all been hit with a bat saying periodic outrage, arguing that they have too much focus on them, with franchises such as ''Franchise/{{Metroid}}'' and ''Franchise/DonkeyKong'' languishing while smaller series' languish from a lack of content. The fans of those franchises are similarly vocal in their pleasure that their series is receiving so much love, and point out that how it's up to the reason they get so much attention in the first place is because they are much, much bigger than every other franchise in the game and have thus "earned" their exposure.developers to decide what's most deserving of a push or not.


* '''[[{{Franchise/Metroid}} Zero Suit Samus]]''': She was ''Brawl's'' darkhorse for her interesting moveset, for being [[MsFanservice very beautiful]], for adding more variety to Samus' playstyle in ''Brawl'', and for essentially being a [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] to the beloved Captain Falcon. A separate, large faction has since grown to despise her for being a blatant MsFanservice in a game that didn't need any, for being a much better character than the Varia-suited Samus[[note]]which completely violates ''Metroid'' canon,[[/note]] and for [[BestKnownForTheFanservice allegedly attracting horny fanboys]] uninterested in the ''Metroid'' games and giving Samus too much of a reputation as a "sexy blonde chick" rather than a powerful warrior -- a debate that spills over to the ''Metroid'' fandom.

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* '''[[{{Franchise/Metroid}} Zero Suit Samus]]''': She was ''Brawl's'' darkhorse for her interesting moveset, for being [[MsFanservice very beautiful]], for adding more variety to Samus' playstyle in ''Brawl'', and for essentially being a [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] to the beloved Captain Falcon. A separate, large faction has since grown to despise her for being a blatant MsFanservice in a game that didn't need any, for being a much better character than the Varia-suited Samus[[note]]which completely violates ''Metroid'' canon,[[/note]] and for [[BestKnownForTheFanservice allegedly attracting horny fanboys]] people]] uninterested in the ''Metroid'' games and giving Samus too much of a reputation as a "sexy blonde chick" rather than a powerful warrior -- a debate that spills over to the ''Metroid'' fandom.


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%% Please make sure any future examples follow the guidelines on the main page. This page is currently being discussed in has had a history of misuse and it will be for the Broken Base Cleanup Thread (11/29/2017) https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14667066520A94266400&page=20#480
better if it never happens again.



To briefly describe it, the fanbase has been divided on several aspects: which game is the best of the series, [[CasualCompetitiveConflict and whether the games should be played casually or competitively]], which leads to divisions regarding the use of items and which stages to play with, creating CharacterTiers, and of course who should be on the roster. Many unofficial ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' themed boards and forums, for example Smash Boards or /r/smashbros, generally have a large divide between casual and competitive players, with the most vocal being seen as the stereotypical fans.
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[[folder:Characters]]
The most common argument is over which characters should or should not be in the game -- or if they are in the game, how they're handled.

* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''' in general is [[SacredCow the most beloved Nintendo character of all time]], but his personality and treatment in ''Smash'' have been slightly contentious. ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' eschew Mario's usual FunPersonified depiction for a more "hardcore" and "[[TheStoic stoic]]" vibe barely seen elsewhere apart from ''VideoGame/SuperMarioStrikers''; some fans enjoy this different take on Mario because it fits more with the game's diverse blend of characters, while others claim that it makes him less likable and doesn't mesh well with his quirky, iconic design and voice, not helped by his MostAnnoyingSound of "Hoooooo... HAH!" during ''all three of his victory poses'' in those two games. Additionally, Mario gets more focus than any other character in the games and their marketing; aside from the bloated and sometimes redundant representation of his franchise in general, he's the universal "default" or "tester" character for many of the in-game options, many ads and the "How to Play" videos play up his rivalry with DK or Bowser rather than the MassiveMultiplayerCrossover aspect,[[note]]although this applies to ads targeted more towards children and families, who [[JustHereForGodzilla treat the series as a Mario spinoff]]; ads targeted towards older gamers put less overt emphasis on Mario[[/note]] and he was a notoriously and annoyingly common Toys/{{amiibo}} for most of 2014 and 2015. Some people accept this due to his role as Nintendo's mascot and the resident JackOfAllStats character, while others claim that [[WolverinePublicity excessive exposure of any kind]] is bad and that Mario's fame and importance don't make him immune to its adverse effects.
* '''[[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Link]]''' is also one of Nintendo's most beloved characters; however, he causes some friction in the fanbase and is stereotyped as an "[[HypeBacklash overrated]] {{scrub}} character" due to his popularity and tier status, creating a case very comparable to Charizard in the ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' fanbase.[[note]]Charizard has its own entry for its ''Smash'' appearance below, which differs quite a bit.[[/note]] Link is easily one of the most loved and most popular characters in ''Smash'', is a frequent sight in casual play for each of the four games, and frequently tops ''Smash'' and Nintendo character popularity polls in the West (even beating out Mario himself). However, some fans mock Link in the first three games for being [[TierInducedScrappy a generally ineffective character]][[note]]even though he's mid-tier in ''Melee''[[/note]], and for attracting large numbers of less experienced players who tend to be [[VocalMinority overly vocal]] about their disbelief in tiers. In the fourth game, Link is a much better character, but is still frowned upon by some for being an annoying "projectile spam" character, as well as the HypeBacklash caused by his general popularity and his ubiquity on For Glory (which, in turn, provides more annoying "projectile spam" to deal with). Despite this, most of the fanbase's "hatred" towards Link is largely tongue-in-cheek, and he's still a generally respected character overall.
* Many people like '''Jigglypuff''', as it was one of the best characters in ''Melee'', and the fact that it was Japan's second favorite Pokémon (behind Pikachu) kind of makes its inclusion a bit easier to understand. However, there are many people, especially in other countries, that feel its time has passed and made it [[TheArtifact irrelevant and unimportant]] - an opinion which is due largely in part to the fact that the anime Jigglypuff, whom the Smash Jigglypuff draws most of its inspiration from, having not appeared in the show for well over a decade until 2017. Despite this, making even a strong argument for Jigglypuff's potential exclusion is largely considered a FandomHeresy, with some fans insisting that it shouldn't and cannot ''ever'' be cut from the roster [[FirstInstallmentWins just because it's one of the original 12 characters]] (despite no official statements along those lines).
* '''Pikachu''' also gets this treatment. In the Franchise/{{Pokemon}} franchise, he occasionally raises complaints due to his KidAppealCharacter nature and WolverinePublicity, and is also a symbol of the polarizing [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} anime series]]. In ''Smash'', it's just as prominent as he is in the anime (and is depicted the same way), and is the only Pokémon universally agreed to never be cut from the series (a few people in the fandom is in the mindset that Jigglypuff is hanging on by a thread, though we have no idea if that's actually the case... at least in [=SSB4=], as Jigglypuff barely avoided the axe in Brawl, as noted above). As ''Pokémon'' is a franchise with over 700 diverse collectible creatures, whether this is a good thing or not depends on whether you like Pikachu in the first place. The reveal of Pikachu in ''VideoGame/PokkenTournament'' with a more serious attitude and realistic design has only worsened things -- some argue that ''Pokkén'' Pikachu would have been a perfect portrayal for ''Smash'' (as the design/personality overhaul is similar to Mario's) as opposed to him currently being a straight copy of [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} Ash's Pikachu]]. As Pikachu is a high or top tier in all of his ''Smash'' appearances, some people find him to be a TierInducedScrappy and are annoyed at how it violates ''Pokémon'' canon (since Pikachu is a very weak species), while others are glad that Pikachu gets to live up to his fame by actually being very useful in battle, unlike in ''Pokémon''.
* '''Peach'''. Carrying over from her DamselInDistress status in [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros her home series]], some people find her annoying, especially due to her high-pitched voice, her taunts and her "Oh, did I win!" victory quote, and her general TastesLikeDiabetes nature with SuperCuteSuperpowers. Other people love her for ''those exact reasons'', which, along with her flirtatious personality and [[AssKicksYou butt-based attacks]] in ''Smash'', make her a [[BadassAdorable cute]] but disrespectful {{troll}} character; it also helps that she ranges from decent to top-tier competitively in all her appearances. She was also briefly a SpotlightStealingSquad in marketing and promotion for the fourth game, though not as much as Mario himself, which annoyed her haters as well as fans of the other ''Mario'' characters and other characters in general.
* In a similar vein to Peach is '''Wario'''. Moveset and use of source material aside, some people find him to be a disgusting, irritating and unendearing FatSlob (especially with his infamous [[{{Gasshole}} Wario Waft]] move), while others find him to be a hilarious UglyCute {{troll}} character and love using him to humorous effect ([[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment especially with his infamous Wario Waft move]]).
* '''Roy''' is perhaps one of the biggest examples in the entire series, with both an extremely big fandom and hatedom. On one side people praise him as a cooler and more fun version of Marth, and a welcome returning veteran to Smash 4 like Mewtwo, while on the other he's downright loathed for being seen as a pointless and irrelevant clone character that should've never come back. It doesn't help that a big chunk of both the Fire Emblem and Smash fandoms see him as nothing but a subject of hate and mockery. When it comes down to it, people either love Roy and see him as a fun and welcome addition to the series, or they think he's a terrible Marth clone that should've never gotten the spotlight. ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' vindicated him somewhat, as it finally gave him a proper non-''Smash'' appearance internationally (as one of its first heroes, no less) and somewhat strengthened his case for future ''Smash'' games.
* '''Diddy Kong''' has been getting a strong and unusual case of this with the fourth game. He is a popular character in [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry his home series]] and is absolutely not without fans here considering he was a requested and rejoiced character in Brawl and Wii U/3DS. However, his infuriatingly effective play-style, combined with his goofy appearance and [[MisplacedWildlife being a monkey that makes]] [[MostAnnoyingSound frequent and loud chimpanzee noises]], has caused a large amount of players to lash out against him and decry him to be an annoyingly juvenile character. And while his return to the fourth game was welcomed, hate proceeded to grow to enormous levels once competitive players discovered his buffs, which made him into a character decried as "the new Meta Knight" for being a hassle to fight in addition to providing jokes on how the tournament scene is dominated by a silly monkey. While Diddy's slight nerfs in the 1.0.6 patch were well-received, he received additional nerfs in 1.0.8 that toned down many of his more powerful attributes and reignited the debate; some people are glad that Diddy is no longer a "cheap" and frustrating character to play against, while others find the nerfs to be excessive and find that they ruined a perfectly viable and balanced character, similar to how Greninja was nerfed in early patches.
* For ''Star Fox'' characters, you've got '''Falco''' fans vs. '''Wolf''' fans. Most think that three similar ''Star Fox'' characters in ''Brawl'' is one too many, but bringing up the subject will start arguments over whether the character to drop should be Falco or Wolf, as well as what exactly constitutes a MovesetClone (since Wolf has similar special moves but different normal ones). Ultimately, Wolf was the one that got cut, and fans debate whether or not his removal was a good thing (removing a clone for those who don't like him and removing someone who represents the franchise for his fans).
** And then there's a third camp that wanted '''Krystal''' instead, primarily because her staff gives her potential for a moveset that isn't the Blaster-FlashStep-Fire-Reflector set that makes up all of the Star Fox characters who have been on the roster so far.
* The '''VideoGame/{{Ice Climber}}s''' were famous {{Base Breaking Character}}s in their own right due to [[TierInducedScrappy their tier status in tournaments]], but upon the reason for their cut being that the 3DS can't handle them, their fans blew their tops. This led to a debate on whether or not the 3DS version was worth it if Ice Climbers weren't in if they can't be on the UsefulNotes/WiiU version or if people are complaining about something that was out of Sakurai's control.
* '''Young Link''' vs. '''Toon Link'''. Some have no problems with either of them, wanting to play as either Link not in his adult form or the Link in the cel-shaded games. Others prefer one over the other. Others wish that they had different movesets than the adult Link, especially in that they both get a plethora of items in their respective games. Others dislike both characters, saying that one Link is enough.
* People who like the '''Wii Fit Trainer''' say she's a fresh, creative addition to the roster, and that her [[FightingClown moves]] and [[TrollingCreator inclusion]] are just plain funny. People who dislike her don't find her to be fresh or creative (her yoga is a mere aesthetic quirk), or aren't amused by shock characters in all-star fighting games.
* '''Zero Suit Samus'''. Some people like her for her interesting moveset, for being [[MsFanservice very beautiful]], for adding more variety to Samus' playstyle in ''Brawl'', and for essentially being a [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] to the beloved Captain Falcon. Other people despise her for being a blatant MsFanservice in a game that didn't need any, for being a much better character than the Varia-suited Samus[[note]]which completely violates ''Metroid'' canon,[[/note]] and most of all, for [[BestKnownForTheFanservice allegedly attracting horny fanboys]] uninterested in the ''Metroid'' games and giving Samus too much of a reputation as a "sexy blonde chick" rather than a powerful warrior -- a debate that spills over to the ''Metroid'' fandom. The heat only increased when the Zero Suit was redesigned to resemble her appearance in ''Other M'', an extremely controversial game, with added [[CombatStilettos weaponized high heels]] a la [[HilariousInHindsight Bayonetta]].
* '''VideoGame/{{Mii}}s''' in ''4'' were a popular request, but they were a base breaker initially due to their simplistic designs and their association with games highly unpopular in the ''Smash'' fandom, such as ''VideoGame/WiiSports''. Other fans embraced their inclusion as a welcome character customization option, complete with a reference to the [[MemeticMutation petition to include Reggie Fils-Aime]] in the roster in their introduction trailer. There's also a third camp who did want Miis in, but wanted them to have moves that referenced the "Wii" series like ''VideoGame/WiiSports'' or ''VideoGame/WiiFit'' instead of the completely original moves. The confirmation that Mii Fighters could not be used while fighting online in "With Anyone" is another issue, as fans are split on whether this was a good decision due to the balancing issues and it being consistent with custom movesets being banned online (not to mention [[{{Troll}} the potential for creating offensive]] [[VideoGamePerversityPotential or outright vulgar characters]]), or if it was a waste of development time to add a character that cannot be used in all parts of the game.
* '''Lucina''' is a very divisive character, with a vocal fandom ''and'' an equally vocal hatedom. As one of the most popular modern ''Fire Emblem'' characters, she was added to the game as a MovesetClone of her ancestor Marth. Some people enjoyed her addition as a cool-looking female swordfighter, especially those who liked her character in ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening''. Others lambasted her for allegedly adding to the ''Fire Emblem'' "overrepresentation" in the game, much like with Dark Pit and ''Kid Icarus''. The latter case wasn't helped at all by the presence of a unique ''Awakening'' character (Robin) and later another more unique Marth clone (Roy) in the game. Her MovesetClone nature has also seen differing views; there are those who appreciate that she didn't take up development time from more unique characters (a major criticism of Corrin), while there are others who believe that her moveset makes her one of the most unnecessary and redundant additions to the roster, although this was mitigated somewhat when she received in-game buffs to turn her from a bottom-tier character[[note]]another major factor behind her hate[[/note]] to a high-tier one similar to Marth.
* '''Meta Knight''''s [[http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/metaknight.html return]] in ''4'' has stirred up some controversy within the fanbase. While some people were happy to see him back, others are still bitter over his [[GameBreaker OP tier status]] in ''Brawl'' which caused him to become banned in a few tournaments. Thankfully, he appears to have been nerfed somewhat, which will hopefully calm his detractors a bit. Ironically, he has been getting a bit of AlasPoorScrappy due to Diddy Kong -- viewed as a much more generic, uncool and "kiddy" character -- having a very similar TierInducedScrappy status to what Meta Knight himself had in ''Brawl'', with some people missing the days when the overpowered character was a "cool" one.
* '''Rosalina and Luma''' were generally liked by people at first, but when the game released, people realized how annoying she was to fight against due to the way her moveset worked. Things got worse with people citing Rosalina as forced for getting so much focus in Smash Bros and the Mario series proper. Luma is less hated than Rosalina, but gets scorned for being a 'respawning Nana'.
** A less vocal fanbase take issue with her character slot saying "Rosalina ''& Luma''", when in fact only she is controlled and not the Luma.
* '''VideoGame/DrMario''' is hated by some people for being a MovesetClone of Mario and [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin literally being just Mario as a doctor]], while others like him for having different properties in his attacks that make him distinct from Mario. When he returned in ''[=U/3DS=]'', he was hated for getting his own slot again instead of being an alternate costume for Mario, while others welcome him for bringing back Mario's old fighting style from ''Melee''.
* '''Palutena''' is a very strong example. She's loved for being an [[{{Moe}} endearing]] and {{troll}}ish sexy meme, she was a popular newcomer choice pre-release, and many people enjoy her gimmick of having 12 unique custom moves. However, she is also hated for adding to the game's "Sakurai bias" (especially with her being the only non-Mii character besides [[WallOfWeapons Mega Man]] with the custom move gimmick), for being a relatively poor character when customs are turned off, and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking for being a cute anime woman]]. Ultimate seems to have fixed this by streamlining her moveset and presumably combining her customs into said moveset.[[note]] One of her Custom Moves, Explosive Flame, is now her side special attack, while her down special can now function as both Counter and Reflect Barrier, her previous side special.
* Surprisingly averted and sometimes invoked with the '''Koopalings''', who are {{Ensemble Darkhorse}}s in the ''Mario'' series. Many fans welcomed them when they were revealed as alternate colors of Bowser Jr. as opposed to seven different characters, thus putting the Koopalings and Bowser Jr. in one character slot, as the Koopalings being separate characters was a complaint in ''VideoGame/MarioKart8''. However, some other people complain that it's just a way to add more representatives to the already-overrepresented ''Mario'' series. '''Bowser Jr.''' fans, meanwhile, complain that they've become a SpotlightStealingSquad, only getting in because of their popularity because they don't have enough characterization to have been their own character.
* '''VideoGame/DuckHunt''' since the reveal. Some are happy that he is in [[CatharsisFactor so they can finally beat that dog]] or think he's a funny troll character with a pretty decent moveset with a shout-out to ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie''. Others hate him because he's one of the most famous [[TheScrappy Scrappies]] in video game history and the troll factor involved with including him.
* Surprisingly, a heated debate has emerged amongst certain Smash fans over whether Pichu or Dark Pit is the bigger scrappy - Pichu's a complete {{joke|Character}} by constantly hurting itself, but defenders will point out that unlike Dark Pit, Pichu at least ''has'' a gimmick to differentiate itself from Pikachu.
* '''[[VideoGame/RoboticOperatingBuddy R.O.B.]]''' is no stranger to debate ever since his debut in ''Brawl''. Some enjoy him for being such an UnexpectedCharacter and being a fun CallBack to an obscure piece of Nintendo history, some argue that while he isn't a bad character per se, he has no real gimmick or interesting move-set and thus doesn't bring anything unique to the table, and some claim that he's a wasted character whose only appeal is pointless nostalgia that only the most diehard of Nintendo fanboys will appreciate. His inclusion in [=U/3DS=] has reignited some of those flames, since many assumed that his relative unpopularity would make him an obvious choice for being cut from the final roster.
* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Charizard]]''' was one of these for a while. As the fiery dragon is one of the most popular Pokémon of all, it has many fans who are happy to see it in the fourth game and feel that it should have been in ''Smash'' since the early days. However, just as in ''Pokémon'', there are fans who dislike its prominence over the Squirtle and Ivysaur lines and the fact that it more or less replaced Pokémon Trainer as a whole and its adding to the alleged Generation I "bias". It also suffers from being a TierInducedScrappy; ''Smash'' fans pass it over due to its awkward and laggy moveset that, similar to Ganondorf, doesn't make Charizard seem like a very formidable or awe-inspiring foe. However, after Mewtwo was released as DLC and Charizard received {{Balance Buff}}s to make it a more respectable character, it rose out of this territory and became a generally liked and accepted character; in hindsight, fans believe that Charizard was a base-breaking character for its awkward implementation in ''Brawl'', for the TierInducedScrappy status it held for a time, and for not being Mewtwo.
* '''Pokémon Trainer''', who, like Jigglypuff, has somewhat of a FandomRivalry with fans of Charizard as a solo character. Some people want him to return along with Ivysaur and Squirtle and feel that he was one of the most unique ''Pokémon'' characters in the series. Others hated his stamina, forced switching and type effectiveness mechanics, and felt that each of his three Pokémon felt rather halfhearted compared to the standard characters.
* '''Dark Pit''': Fans argue whether or not he is a good idea for a clone, a waste of a character slot, whether he could have been more original or not, that he would have been fine as an alt, perceived stealing of a roster spot from fan-favorites (even though this is not the case), or that his similiarity to Pit in all but personality makes him a perfect character to elevate to clone status. There's almost no opinions in-between.
* '''[[GuestFighter Third-party characters]] in general''' can be this for Creator/{{Nintendo}} purists. While some like seeing some of the major icons in the industry in the same game with characters like Mario and have felt Nintendo almost has been doing them more justice than even their own parent companies have, there are also others who feel that since the series started out as a game that brought in major Nintendo characters to do battle with each other and was a celebration of their various franchises think that the game should only consist of content that is strictly owned by Nintendo.
** '''Snake''' had become a hot topic as the fourth installment drew closer to launch, between people who wanted him back and those that felt he didn't stand a chance. Snake's detractors would cite that ''VideoGame/MetalGear'' as a whole is more at home on the UsefulNotes/PlayStation family, with the [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolidVThePhantomPain latest]] [[VideoGame/MetalGearRisingRevengeance games]] at the time being released on every platform BUT the Wii U. Ports aside, the last original game in the series to grace a Nintendo platform was ''Twin Snakes'', a remake of the first ''Metal Gear Solid''. Every game in the series since ''Snake Eater'' would always start either just on a Sony platform or as a multiplatform on everything but the Wii U, and thus people consider Snake to be "irrelevant" to Nintendo. Beyond that, it's been cited that he's very out of place compared to the lighthearted and stylized characters that make up the rest of the roster, and that Keifer Sutherland would most likely be cast as his VA instead of David Hayter. His supporters, on the other hand, would point out that every ''Metal Gear'' to grace a Nintendo platform is a sign of the aforementioned relevance (including non-canon titles from over a decade ago like ''[[VideoGame/MetalGearGhostBabel Ghost Babel]]''), and that it would be a mistake to cut any character with a unique moveset.
** After the initial wave of hype from his inclusion in ''Brawl'', Sonic has devolved into this. '''Sonic''' suffers in ''[=SSB4=]'' for being a high-tier TierInducedScrappy and for the poor reputation of [[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog his home series]], with many people citing him as their least-favorite third-party character. Along with this, while many people are happy about his inclusion, some ''Sonic'' fans themselves are not quite so happy about it. Due to the UsefulNotes/ConsoleWars between SEGA and Nintendo, there is a vocal minority of Sonic fans who have a grudge against Nintendo and see Sonic being in a Smash Bros. game -- that is, a representation of Nintendo and its history -- as an insult. There is another group who don't mind Sonic being playable in the Smash Bros. series but take a lot of pride in Sonic and Mario being rivals; they are not happy until Mario cameos as a playable character in a SEGA ensemble game. Both groups view Sonic's inclusion in the Smash Bros. games as a degradation of the character they love so much. Additionally, some fans are happy with his inclusion but think his moveset is too generic/boring (two of his specials are spin dashes, and Mega Man's and Pac-Man's up-specials are similar to his.).
** Depending on the fan, '''VideoGame/PacMan''' is either a fantastic addition to the roster with a great moveset who represents a milestone of gaming history, a boring character with a generic design who doesn't bring much to the table, [[TakeAThirdOption or both]]. Generally, older fans who were able to experience Pac-Man's success first hand are the ones who appreciate his inclusion more, and the character has even been known to attract older adults to ''Smash''. Some fans who supported more "unique" Namco characters, such as [[VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia Lloyd Irving]], [[VideoGame/{{Tekken}} Heihachi Mishima]], or [[VideoGame/SoulSeries Nightmare]], find Pac-Man to be a bit too generic for their liking -- although the later addition of Ryu and Cloud to the roster helped calm fears that only the "safest" and most "mainstream" mascot characters would be chosen for third-parties, as explained below.
** '''Cloud''' stands as one of the most controversial third-party characters to ever be playable in the series. ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' is one of the most famous Eastern [=RPGs=] in the world, and Cloud is its most popular character; however, he was an UnexpectedCharacter of the highest degree due to his tenuous ties to Nintendo.[[note]]Cloud's only appearances on Nintendo consoles were in some ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' games as a very minor character and ''VideoGame/TheatrhythmFinalFantasy'', a WidgetSeries spin-off, as well as an unlockable costume in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyExplorers''.[[/note]] As such, Cloud's announcement was met with a huge HolyShitQuotient reaction, and he became a very popular character to download and play as for the sheer RuleOfCool factor in pitting him against Nintendo's greatest -- especially his longtime unofficial rival Link. However, Cloud's inclusion was also met with some backlash, not only due to his weak ties to Nintendo, but also due to the HypeBacklash that he suffers from as well as his home game ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII''; some even find Cloud's addition to be insulting, because instead of a character from one of the ''Final Fantasy'' games that were on Nintendo consoles, ''Smash'' gets a character from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', the game that marked the point where ''Final Fantasy'' became more associated with Sony than Nintendo. Debates extended to whether a generic class or creature such as Black Mage or Moogle[[note]]the previous go-to choices for ''Final Fantasy'' characters in ''Smash''[[/note]] would have been more suitable than Cloud,[[note]]these debates were more heated prior to Cloud's announcement, as his popularity in ''Smash'' made Black Mage and similar character requests fall out of favor to the point of becoming SnarkBait in hindsight,[[/note]] whether a similar "named" ''Final Fantasy'' character such as [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI Terra Branford]] would also have been preferable as a compromise,[[note]]an issue addressed by Sakurai himself, where he considered both Terra and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyV Bartz]] but ultimately decided that Cloud should make the cut,[[/note]] and/or whether Cloud should have been in ''VideoGame/PlayStationAllStarsBattleRoyale'' instead, a game where Square Enix had no representation. And then there's people who just dislike Cloud being [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking yet another sword-wielder and/or anime-like fighter in the roster]] (particularly from supporters of Western-styled characters such as [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry King K. Rool]]), especially since Cloud is one of the most iconic anime-styled swordsmen in all of gaming and has a fanbase that overlaps greatly with the anime fandom. Finally, just like with Bayonetta, Cloud's TierInducedScrappy status is highly contested, with some fans supporting his top-tier ranking due to his "hype factor" as a character and others disliking it due to his nature as paid DLC and being the most "anti-Nintendo" character on the roster.
** '''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}''' became a BaseBreakingCharacter the second she was revealed. On one hand, you have the fans who are happy to see her, citing her unique combo-heavy moveset and snarky personality as factors. She in fact got in due to her high ranking in the Fighter Ballot[[note]]Announced as #1 in Europe, in the Top 5 in the US among "realizable" and "negotiable" characters and overall ranking high worldwide[[/note]], at least among realizable characters. However, some fans believe that she wasn't a "worthy" choice (especially compared to other popular contenders), leading to accusations of vote rigging or outright lying. This crowd will often cite polls on other websites, such as Website/{{Reddit}}, which showed characters such as K. Rool, VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Banjo & Kazooie]], etc. as ballot leaders, seemingly to say that [[SilentMajority almost nobody could've voted for her]], which only leads to further arguments that [[FanMyopia such polls don't represent the entire fandom]]. In addition, there are also those who detest Bayonetta's inclusion due to their belief that she doesn't really "fit" in Smash Bros, being significantly more violent (particularly her [[NightmareFuel nightmarish]] Final Smash) and sexualized than any other character on the roster. There are also fans who are fine or even thrilled with Bayonetta being chosen from the ballot, but feel disappointed that she's the only such character chosen. Her status as the alleged best character in the game (being the top-ranked character on the tier list twice in a row) has intensified this, with some fans being proud that such a hype-worthy and canonically extremely powerful GuestFighter has earned such a placement, and others complaining about Bayonetta being "pay-to-win" due to her status as a DLC character, and overshadowing all of the first-party Nintendo characters on the roster aside from [[BewareTheSillyOnes Diddy Kong]].
*** The release of Patch 1.1.6 which included solely a heavy {{Nerf}} towards Bayonetta (and ''only'' Bayonetta). Many fans of the competitive community are celebrating since prior to this, Bayonetta was considered hands down the most broken character in Smash ever (so much so that "0-to-death combo" became a Bayonetta meme). Others, however, argue there was nothing wrong with the character in the first place (especially for casual play), and the patch was only introduced to appease the competitive side of the Smash fandom who refused to learn how to play against a character like Bayonetta, instead just calling the character 'broken' because she was new and different.
* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemFates Corrin]]''', as a sixth ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' character added to the game after a ton of hype buildup over the final DLC characters, has been one of the most divisive characters in the entire series.
** While a good number of folks were excited to see them, and they have a very impressive and creative moveset based around turning into a dragon, many others were upset over there being yet another ''Fire Emblem'' character in ''Smash'' (see the over-representation section below), or that Corrin's addition was just a cheap way to advertise their own game ([[BrokenBase/FireEmblemFates itself a HUGELY divisive entry right down to Corrin themselves]]), especially since his announcement came long after an interview in which Sakurai promised the rest of the DLC would be "pure fanservice". On the flip-side, many Corrin fans have pointed out that what Sakurai means by "fanservice" is completely different from the fans' interpretation, and that it's the haters' faults for trying to push their expectations onto Sakurai. When ''Fates'' was finally released in the West, it became a massive success, suggesting (along with Sakurai himself being aware of the ''Fire Emblem'' overrepresentation problem) that Nintendo knew exactly what they were doing by putting Corrin in the game.
** Because Corrin became the poster child for ''Fire Emblem'' overrepresentation in ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'', the franchise's elevation to [[CashCowFranchise cash cow]] via ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' has allowed some people to reassess their opinion on Corrin. Some people argue that Corrin has become one of the most iconic characters in the series, as the main character of its second best-selling title, and that their place in ''Smash'' has become more justified over time and in hindsight especially due to their unique NinjaPirateZombieRobot moveset that easily attracts new fans. Others argue that, for all of its newfound success, ''Fire Emblem'' had no need to hijack ''Smash'' and its hype to get to that point, that Corrin is just as unwanted and unnecessary as ever, and that even with ''Heroes'' and its success, Corrin is a BaseBreakingCharacter in their ''native'' game and it would have been wiser to add a more universally-liked ''FE'' character (such as Tiki or [[VideoGame/FireEmblemBlazingSword Lyndis]]) who (could have potentially) ended up being given just as much exposure.
** There's also the debate of Roy vs Corrin, with arguments stemming from discontent over Fire Emblem having two DLC characters. Thus debates began over who deserved to have the "slot" more. Roy, who is still a semi-clone of Marth, but starred in [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Binding Blade]] which had very solid sales in Japan (which helped the franchise recover after the series' creator's departure), has decent gaming history and was a previous Smash fighter but is also a divisive character in Smash and with being hands-down the most divisive lord in the [[AmericansHateTingle Western FE fandom]]. Or Corrin, who has an awesome looking dragon-morphing mechanic, [[ChainsawGood a magical chainsaw sword]], as well as possessing very different and unique moves compared to other ''Fire Emblem'' entries and comes from a game on track to become the most successful ''Fire Emblem'' title of all time (but is also fairly divisive), but doesn't have much game history yet and thus doesn't deserve to be in a fighting game of "Video Game All-Stars" because of it. On the other hand, [[TakeAThirdOption many fans]] are fine with having ''both'' characters, feeling this debate is rather pointless. Occasionally Lucina is brought into the debate despite not being a DLC character, although not nearly as frequently or fervently due to being a moveset clone added late into the games development (along with Dark Pit and Dr. Mario) as a bonus character with no impact on any choices for the roster.
* '''Waluigi'''. Being an EnsembleDarkhorse in his home series, people naturally wanted him as a fighter, and many were disappointed when it turned out he was still an Assist Trophy in ''Ultimate''. The reactions are divided into three camps: those that are okay with it due to his lack of proper importance, those that are disappointed that he didn't get in but were satisfied nonetheless, and those who went so crazy about Waluigi's absence from the roster that the [[{{Tagline}} "Everyone is here!" tagline]] means nothing to them if Waluigi isn't included (despite the fact that it was referring to every veteran fighter coming back). Some have even taken to [[https://mobile.twitter.com/wonderhavoc/status/1008787668824555521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%231008787668824555521 harassing Masahiro Sakurai with memes on social media]]. Some see it as justice for Waluigi not getting in, while others are quick to call these people out on their behavior, and some people have turned their back on the man in purple.
* '''[[DownloadableContent DLC Costumes]] for Mii Fighters'''. On one hand, they're a fun addition and an easy way to include references to characters that might not have a chance to fully be implemented into Smash Bros, like [[VideoGame/{{Tekken}} Heihachi Mishima]], who was considered as a full fighter for Smash, but coming up with an appropriate moveset that was true to the character was too difficult, so he became a Mii costume instead. They might even be promoted to a full fighter in a future Smash game (provided that there is one). On the other hand, having a Mii costume instead of the actual character could be considered a slap in the face for said character's fans (like [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry King K. Rool]], the [[VideoGame/{{Splatoon}} Inklings]][[note]]They were promoted to Playable Characters in Ulitmate, quelling the debate on this character[[/note]] , and [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]], three of the most requested characters in the Smash Ballot).
* '''Assist Trophies'''. The idea for some people is novel due to it being an good way to get lesser-known Nintendo characters an opportunity to still have an active role during fights, but they have also drawn mediocre to negative reception from a handful of fans perceiving it as a lazy way to not make certain characters playable. This is commonly aimed at characters that either have popularity or gameplay potential that fans feel like being an Assist Trophy would not do justice, examples including Waluigi, Lyn, Isaac, Krystal, Dillon, and Takamaru. ''Ultimate'' makes things more complicated by introducing the concept of third parties from other franchises also joining as Assist Trophies, like Bomberman. Either this is a good idea to get less popular or unfeasible third party characters included, or just a kick in the face due to third parties being already hard to get in to begin with. Not helping is the infamous CasualCompetitiveConflict the Smash series is known for, so there's a real possibility you'll never get to see these Assist Trophies in action anyway, defeating the intention altogether.
* In terms of character choices, there's '''the divide between "cartoony" characters and "realistic" ones''', as depicted in [[http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=101314 this]] ''Webcomic/AwkwardZombie'' comic. In general, the ''Mario'' franchise's importance and prominence within Nintendo and ''Smash'', as well as ''[=3DS/Wii U=][='s=]'' pre-DLC lineup of third-party characters that were all {{Alternate Company Equivalent}}s of Mario, causes some people to lean towards "cartoony" characters as more suitable candidates for ''Smash'' (especially those who have been in prior crossovers with Mario). Other fans note that ''Smash''[='s=] roster is very diverse and cartoonishness or realism has no bearing on how suitable a character is for the game, and that "realistic" characters often end up more popular with players than "cartoony" ones, especially in the West. A very prominent example was with the series' possible ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' representation; many fans believed that the most suitable and "logical" choice of character would be a generic Black Mage or Moogle, both of which had appeared in ''Mario'' sports games, but in the end, [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Cloud Strife]], a more realistic anime-styled swordsman and the most popular character in the series, was chosen. Not helping matters is that there is a minor FandomRivalry between fans of the "cartoonish" and "realistic" styles, with fans of the former describing the latter as "too anime for Nintendo" and "weeby", and fans of the latter describing the former as "silly" and "kiddy".
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Use of Source Material]]
A lot of the time, fans agree that iconic elements ''should'' be in the game, but the way they are portrayed becomes divisive. Generally, fans debate on whether these elements are used in a way which is "faithful" to the source material.

[[AC:Movesets]]
* '''Ganondorf''''s moveset in ''Smash'' is by far the most controversial in the series, due to the discrepancy from his canon portrayal as a sword or trident-wielding sorcerer who fires magic from a distance, and for being a clone of the unrelated Captain Falcon. Many wish that his moveset would change to a more series-faithful depiction involving his iconic use of weapons and magic blasts, use this as an argument for Sakurai being biased against the ''Zelda'' series, and claim that Sakurai intentionally trolls his fans with things such as Ganondorf's sword taunt and Warlock Blade being a one-off optional move. These fans often point to ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriors'', which portrays him with dual greatswords, as an example of what Ganondorf ''should'' be like in ''Smash''. The fact that Bowser, Pit and even other ''Zelda'' characters such as Link and Sheik got moveset revamps that usually reflected their subsequent games was seen as a low blow by many of these fans. Some of these fans tend to want to give his moveset to ''F-Zero'' villain Black Shadow, who has the same body type as Ganondorf and whose connection to F-Zero would better justify a semi-cloned moveset to Falcon; often justifying it by pointing out that Mario's sorely missed Tornado move was given to Dr. Mario in ''For 3DS[=/=]Wii U''. Others argue that his moveset doesn't need an overhaul, as he is already portrayed as powerful and dominating as in his home series; pointing out that Ganondorf has used several hand-to-hand moves throughout the series,[[note]]He uses a GroundPunch in ''Ocarina of Time'', punches Link several times in a cutscene in ''Wind Waker'', and kicks and elbows in his boss fight in ''Twilight Princess'', to name a few[[/note]] that using him with his optimal custom moves in ''[=SSB4=]''[[note]]usually Warlock Blade (to let him use his sword), Dark Fists (to reflect his surprising jumping abilities), and Wizard's Dropkick (which is superficially similar to a move he had in ''Twilight Princess'' where he would hop out of the way and retaliate)[[/note]] lets him be even more faithful to his home series, and most importantly, his moveset is just too fun to use to be removed or be shunted off to lesser-known character like Black Shadow. In fact, there are a sizable number of fans who want him to be portrayed as a brawler in a ''Zelda'' game to reconcile his ''Smash'' moveset. The fact that he was a bottom-tier character in ''Brawl'' and is still generally considered low-tier in ''[=SSB4=]'' in both games heightens the debate even more; it says something when ''Smash'' Ganondorf is considered a MemeticBadass ''and'' a MemeticLoser by different parts of the fandom.
* '''Wario''''s own moveset is the second most divisive in the series after Ganondorf's. Many of Wario's fans are annoyed that he draws inspiration almost entirely from the ''VideoGame/WarioWare'' games, where Wario is entirely a noncombatant, instead of the ''VideoGame/WarioLand'' series and other ''Wario'' platformers, where Wario is a combatant. The fact he uses choppy animation in the style of the former, and that many of his moves aren't really in [=WarioWare=] either doesn't help matters. The removal of Wario's trademark shoulder bash, his forward Smash in ''Brawl'', for a punching attack in ''4'' was taken as a deep cut by several ''Wario Land'' fans, as his moveset in ''Smash Bros. 4'' no longer references the ''Wario Land'' series. Other fans are fine with his portrayal, pointing out that with Wario's portrayal as a [[LightningBruiser strong and swift]] [[CloseRangeCombatant brawler]] and the general wackiness of his moves and animations, Wario still captures the spirit of the whole ''VideoGame/{{Wario}}'' series, including ''VideoGame/WarioLand''. It's also pointed out that the Chomp is justified because of Wario's garlic-eating habits, while the Wario Waft is also justified due to Wario being consistently portrayed as a FatSlob across the series.
* '''Pac-Man''' has gotten complaints for not representing his franchise outside of the arcade era, many of which had wished the ''VideoGame/PacManWorld'' series had been looked at for inspiration for his moveset, stage and music as it was what made a lot of people want the character in since the Brawl days to begin with. Along with this, The idea to represent Pac-Land has gotten a lot of flack (more so for being one of the most hated stages in Smash history) and argue that he should have just stuck to representing the arcade games or the world games (fans really disagree with only representing the arcade era),. Others argue Pac-Land was a great choice despite being obscure as the game came out before the original Super Mario and being the main inspiration for that game's creation.
* As of ''For 3DS[=/=]Wii U'', '''Samus''''s moveset has grown divisive. Said game introduced a few characters making much more extensive use of projectiles for both special moves and normal moves (Mega Man, Mii Gunner, and to a lesser extent Villager). Meanwhile, Samus's own moveset, which has remained generally consistent since ''64'', only uses projectiles for her specials while using hand-to-hand attacks for everything else. Similar to Ganondorf, many wish Samus got a moveset revamp that allows her to use projectiles in her normal moveset, as Samus almost entirely fights with her gun in her [[VideoGame/{{Metroid}} home series]] and that it would be unfair for her to not have heavier projectile use when characters such as Mega Man do. Others think, since Samus already has four specials taken from her games, she is already very faithful and doesn't need anything else. Heightening the debate is, again, her tier placement; she is considered a bottom-tier character thanks to her poor melee options and over-reliance on long-range projectiles. Many believe that giving Samus projectile normals would make her a much more viable character as well as help differentiate her from her higher-tier and more melee-focused Zero Suit form.
* '''Charizard''' and '''Mewtwo''' both saw these sorts of complaints about their movesets, mostly for TierInducedScrappy reasons. In Charizard's case, it was frequently lambasted for being a horrible character in ''Brawl'' and early versions of ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', with significant criticism towards the fact that a Pokémon known for its flight abilities has very poor aerial mobility, and feeling overall like a heavyweight variation on Bowser rather than the {{Acrofatic}} GiantFlyer that it is frequently depicted as. While opinions on Charizard's viability greatly improved, it still sees complaints of this sort from time to time. Meanwhile, other players think that Charizard's moveset is fine, and is a good representation of the character for depicting its power and imposing nature. Mewtwo was in a very similar boat, but to an even greater degree because it is a very powerful and heavy Legendary Pokémon and was depicted as one of the lightest, most ineffectual characters in the game that overused weak melee attacks instead of the PsychicPowers and special attacks that it was known for; however, these complaints died down once Mewtwo was buffed to become a top-tier character in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''.

[[AC:Other]]
* Some fans don't like how Bowser, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong have "realistic" voices instead of their human-provided voices from their home games. In Bowser's and Donkey Kong's case, this is oddly ''despite'' the fact that they have occasionally been depicted with realistic voices in the ''Mario'' series, such as in ''VideoGame/MarioKart64'' (which one of Bowser's roars is taken from) and, for Bowser, ''VideoGame/NewSuperMarioBros1'' (complete with a hunched-over posture similar to his depiction in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''). Others find their current voices in their home series {{Narm}}y and find the "realistic" voices refreshing. Oddly enough, Charizard suffers from the opposite problem: while it has more emotional, human-voiced roars, it still has a more feral, hunched-over stance than in its home series, which makes it move and attack similarly to Bowser in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''.
* Marth, Roy and Cloud all speak Japanese in non-Japanese versions of ''Smash''. In Marth's and Roy's cases, while previously the justification was neither had ever made an international appearance besides the obscure ''Fire Emblem'' OVA (in which Marth received an English voice actor), a remake of [[VideoGame/FireEmblemAkaneia Marth's game]] and ''Awakening'' DLC with both characters already got international releases long before the fourth game was even planned. Some people say it's tradition that they speak Japanese in ''Smash Bros.'', and changing their voices to English will elicit cries of TheyChangedItNowItSucks. Detractors say that this shows that ''Smash Bros.'' falls too much into the GrandfatherClause and NostalgiaFilter tropes, especially after Marth was given an official English voice in ''VideoGame/CodenameSTEAM''. Cloud's case is even more controversial in that he's had an official English voice actor (Steve Burton) for a long time. Some fans take issue with [[NoDubForYou Cloud's lack of English voice acting]],[[note]]Many blame it on laziness, when in fact most signs point to Steve Burton (a union actor) being unable to work on ''Smash'' (a non-union project)[[/note]], while other fans don't mind and actually [[SubbingVersusDubbing preferred Cloud's Japanese voice from the beginning]], with Creator/TakahiroSakurai's performance having been praised by many fans over Burton's ever since ''Anime/FinalFantasyVIIAdventChildren'' in 2005.
* The ongoing debate over the ''VideoGame/DuckHunt'' character's name. Ever since ''Melee'', most of the fandom supporting the inclusion of Duck Hunt Dog in a future ''Smash Bros.'' title have referred to the character by that name, culminating to his inclusion as a character in the fanmade ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosCrusade'' under the name "Duck Hunt Dog." When ''Smash 3DS'' gave the character the same name as his original game (the justification being that the dog is teamed up with a duck) as shown in the leaked pictures, the base started to break. Then after the character was officially revealed in a live stream of the Japanese version of ''Smash 3DS'', people started lambasting others who continued to call the character "Duck Hunt Dog," and should be "rightfully" called "Duck Hunt." Things got even worse when the European versions showed the character's name as "Duck Hunt ''Duo''", so now we have Europeans arguing with the rest of the world what the character should be called. Some people prefer to continue using the name "Duck Hunt Dog" for the character, while "Duck Hunt (Duo)" supporters scream at those people for being "wrong." Let's not even get into the whole [[UrbanLegendOfZelda Mr. Peepers]] subject...
* The ''Zelda'' fanbase's own Broken Base over Sheik's biological sex carries over here. To sum up, ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' introduced Sheik as a SweetPollyOliver disguise of Zelda's, but since AWizardDidIt some fans believe this disguise extended to a magically-induced GenderBender. The fact that Sheik's design in the fourth game backtracks ever so slightly from her more womanly-looking features in ''Brawl'' (despite retaining a large basis in her ''Brawl'' appearance) and [[DecompositeCharacter Sheik is split off from Zelda this time around]] has the "Sheik is male" camp taking up arms yet again. There are also some fans that prefer to treat Sheik and Zelda as completely separate people, who are taking advantage of the character split to promote their position to the irritation of those who stick with the idea that they're two identities for one person. Sheik's exaggerated expressions in the fourth game, compared to Zelda's, are not helping her case here either. For their part, Nintendo has been consistent ever since the reveal that Sheik is nothing more than a disguise: ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' referred to Sheik using female pronouns, ''Melee''[='s=] trophy for her stated that Zelda uses magic to change her clothing and eye color, and every game since the original ''[=OoT=]'' (including the 3DS remake) [[ArtEvolution made her femininity more obvious]]. This also seems to carry over to the Nintendo Switch game, since this time around, Sheik's design is now based on ''Breath of the Wild'', despite not even appearing in that game [[note]]her ''Twilight Princess''-based appearance at least had [[DevelopmentGag some justification]]; that and ''TP'' Zelda still being present and as her primary counterpart[[/note]], while Zelda takes her design from ''A Link Between Worlds'', which brings up the question: Without Zelda from ''BOTW'' appearing in this game [[note]]with WordOfGod explaining that they passed her over because "she is more into researching than fighting"[[/note]], [[FridgeLogic what is Sheik supposed to be now]]?
* ''VideoGame/MetroidOtherM'' has been extremely controversial, and that controversy has spilled over into ''Smash Bros.'' since most of the ''Franchise/{{Metroid}}'' content in ''Wii U/3DS'' is based on that game specifically.
** While both versions of Samus (regular and Zero Suit) use designs that are largely based on ''Other M'', they keep their characterization from previous ''Smash'' games rather than changing them to fit the new entry[[note]]including Zero Suit Samus still using Alesia Glidewell's [[TheStoic stoic]] ''Brawl'' voice clips rather than being voiced by Jessica Martin like in ''Other M''[[/note]], and [[CompositeCharacter incorporate elements of their older designs]] rather than using direct ports of their ''Other M'' ones. Among those who took issue with ''Other M'', some fans are glad that Samus is still her old self despite the ''Other M'' influence and see it as an AuthorsSavingThrow, while others are still dissatisfied towards all the ''Other M'' representation in the game and believe that Nintendo is [[AdoredByTheNetwork still trying to push the game]] [[MagnumOpusDissonance after its failure]], particularly to people unfamiliar with the ''Metroid'' franchise.[[note]]and possibly using Samus' older, more well-received characterization to [[NeverTrustATrailer dupe them]][[/note]]
** Zero Suit Samus in particular has drawn fire for being gratuitous {{fanservice}}. Samus is rarely shown wearing the Zero Suit in her own games (barring a stealth section in ''Zero Mission'', she's always armored during gameplay), yet in ''Smash'' ZSS is a separate character that wears the skintight suit full-time. ''Other M'' in particular exacerbated the problem since Samus' Zero Suit scenes were ones where she was either reduced to eye candy, being shown especially weak and fragile, or both. Her alternate costumes don't help (despite [[http://i.imgur.com/CBkzGTw.png being insisted upon]] by ZSS's ''female'' designer); while they weren't taken from ''Other M'' (they came from [[http://i.imgur.com/EkYtzy8.jpg the]] [[http://i.imgur.com/eGlA8xI.png endings]] of the GBA games instead), they're still [[http://i.imgur.com/lZgGKGT.png quite skimpy.]]
** ''Other M'' added high heels to the Zero Suit for no apparent reason other than the fanservice, and ''Smash 4'' sparked debate when it revealed that ZSS's design was updated to include (heavily altered versions of) them. While ''Smash''[='s=] change into ''jet'' heels has been well-received by some, others think the heels should've been removed entirely in favor of a more practical design, like jet boots. Both sides at least agree it's a step up from ''Other M''[='s=] plain high heels.
* Mega Man's design [[http://i.imgur.com/WGqC4PX.jpg being based mainly on his sprites]] has attracted some criticism, even more so considering he's the only character whose model is largely based off of them. It makes him look [[https://www.flickr.com/photos/48280274@N02/13729683614/in/set-72157643678092364 for the most part]] emotionless, despite the fact he appears lankier and more expressive in cutscenes and official artwork. With the E3 and Best Buy demos, however, many have noted that Mega Man is much more expressive. Many also are divided against the inclusion of the Mega Man from ''[[Franchise/MegaManLegends Legends]]''.
* The ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' content raises these kinds of debates:
** Because the ''Anime/{{Pokemon}}'' anime developed a notable BrokenBase of older fans some time between the releases of ''Brawl'' and ''Smash 4'', the inclusion of elements from the anime (such as PokemonSpeak) in ''Smash'' developed a BrokenBase as well. Many people tolerate and/or enjoy the anime elements due to the GrandfatherClause, [[NostalgiaFilter nostalgia]], and its popular portrayals of certain species, particularly Mewtwo and Lucario. Others find the anime elements to be too childish and outdated for the series, and are upset that ''Smash 4'' didn't depict Pokémon the way ''Anime/PokemonOrigins'' and the ''VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2'' animated promo did[[note]]especially as those specials are more directly based on the games' universe[[/note]]. It's not uncommon to see accusations of ''Smash'' ignoring the ''Pokémon'' games[[note]]to be fair, none of the ''Pokémon'' content goes very deep into the series' lore, for the games ''or'' for the anime[[/note]], attempting to advertise the anime (due to its MerchandiseDriven nature), or pandering to the anime's target audience of [[AnimationAgeGhetto young children]] -- although there's no solid proof for any of the three. The schism continues even when the fourth installment provides more visual references to the ''Pokémon'' games than ever before[[labelnote:Examples]]Charizard's and Lucario's Mega Evolution animations are exactly the same as in ''X/Y'', all the new ''Pokémon'' stages are more accurate to their game counterparts, the iconic Substitute plushie used by Greninja is exclusive to the games, etc.[[/labelnote]] and even [[http://www.idigitaltimes.com/pok%C3%A9mon-omega-ruby-and-alpha-sapphire-greninja-distribution-event-brings-super-smash-393594 provides a Greninja cross-promotion with the games themselves]], while directly referencing the anime (especially the early seasons) in Pokémon Trainer's and Zapdos' trophies[[note]]Pokémon Trainer's mentions Ash Ketchum, juxtaposes him with Misty and Brock (best known as his original travel companions), and parodies the Indigo League theme song in the English version; Zapdos' mentions ''Anime/PokemonTheMovie2000'' in a nostalgic fashion[[/note]], ''and'' having Charizard somewhat resemble Red's Charizard from ''Anime/PokemonOrigins'' (intentionally or not) with its voice and Final Smash.[[note]]Note that many of the complaints are due to the anime's [[NeverLiveItDown poor reputation]]; despite the large number of improvements and attempts to appeal to wider audiences in the ''XY'' season (the season that Greninja would ostensibly be advertising, if at all), fans are [[AccentuateTheNegative more bound to remember the series' shortcomings]] and use them for ''Smash'' criticism.[[/note]] This largely ended when Mewtwo was revealed to once again use its voice and personality from ''Melee''[[note]]albeit [[TheOtherDarrin re-cast]][[/note]], based on the Japanese dub of ''Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie'', which came as a pleasant surprise to fans who were expecting the ReplacementScrappy Mewtwo from ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened''.
** A number of fans dislike how ''Smash'' primarily draws its ''Pokémon'' representation from [[FirstInstallmentWins Generation I]], with Pikachu and Jigglypuff returning for every game and the only non-Gen I playable {{Mon}}s being Pichu, Lucario and Greninja (with ''[=SSB4=]'' being the only installment to feature two of them). As the ''Pokémon'' fanbase is already up in arms over "Genwunners" (fans who overglorify Gen I and bash all or most later gens), quite a few fans can be touchy over Gen I representation in ''Smash'' and accuse it of overrepresenting the original 150. This is one reason why some people resent Charizard's inclusion, despite its insane popularity in the ''Pokémon'' fanbase. However, other fans believe that Gen I is represented fairly, as it's the most iconic generation of Pokémon.
** The fact that no Pokémon side games (e.g. VideoGame/PokemonRanger or VideoGame/PokemonMysteryDungeon) are represented at all, not even with trophies or music. Even the ''anime'' gets more representation, and that's not even a video game. Some say that the sidegames are unimportant and therefore don't need representation, while others find it annoying that Mario sidegames such as VideoGame/DrMario and VideoGame/PaperMario get a lot of representation while Pokémon sidegames do not.
* Various series have the perception that certain games in their franchise get favored over others, to the ire of fans of those "others". Besides ''Metroid'' favoring ''Other M'' (which came with its own baggage, explained above) and the already-stated examples for ''Wario'' and ''Pokémon'', ''Mario'' gets complaints over how the spinoffs, especially the [=RPGs=] and the ''VideoGame/MarioParty'' series, get ignored in favor of several stages based on the main series of platformers and on ''VideoGame/MarioKart'', and what presence the [=RPGs=] do have favors ''VideoGame/PaperMario'' in general and the ''very'' polarizing ''VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar'' in specific over ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi''. Heck, [=SSB4=] neglects the vast majority of Mario games released between 1996 and 2005, even the popular and massively influential ''VideoGame/SuperMario64'', which has no new trophies or music tracks (save for a DLC one which is an alternate version of a track that is already in [=SSB4=]). ''Kirby'' stages also appear to focus on the earlier '90s games that Sakurai had a role in developing and not more modern entries. Another example is that ''SSB4'', instead of the logical addition of the DSi, 3DS, or Wii U shop's theme and the 3DS or Wii U's Mii Maker theme, adds remixes of the Mii Channel and Wii Shop Channel themes alongside the originals.
* A few ''VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}}'' fans dislike Shulk's portrayal in ''Smash 4'', thinking the FountainOfMemes approach will give fans introduced to him through ''Smash'' the wrong idea about his character, while others point out almost all of his quotes are taken from his home game, and think any differences are justified by the different genres of the two games.
* The leak of ESRB video content for the 3DS version (the same one that revealed the entire character roster) showed a [[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Tharja]] trophy apparently removed from the game due to sexual content. A few fans are disappointed, with Tharja being an EnsembleDarkhorse in ''Awakening'' and the removal of her trophy being seen as a casualty of forcing an E10+ rating upon the game, due to her revealing outfit. Some pointed out the oddity of the situation considering that VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}, an even more risqué character, was later announced as ''playable'' DLC, although this may have been a consequence of DLC not being rated with the main game.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Over-Representation]]
Sometimes fans debate on whether a franchise is getting [[SpotlightStealingCrossover too much representation]] compared to others, with detractors hoping that other "underrepresented" franchises (such as ''Franchise/DonkeyKong'' or ''Franchise/{{Metroid}}'') get focus instead.
* ''Franchise/SuperMarioBros'' is by far the most represented franchise, which is understandable as it's Nintendo's flagship series and several related characters headline their own games aside from the connection to Mario. For these reasons, most fans don't mind too much; but the addition of Rosalina in ''4'' caused some to think that perhaps things were going a little too far. The further addition of Bowser Jr./the Koopalings and the return of Dr. Mario can't have helped. Non-character debates include how even unpopular ''Mario'' games such as ''VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar'' and ''VideoGame/NewSuperMarioBros2'' get a lot of focus, how the ''Mario'' content is so bloated that some of it is redundant,[[note]]such as the comparatively boring [[VideoGame/MarioKart Mario Circuit]] stage from ''Brawl'' returning alongside a much more dynamic new stage of the same name based on ''VideoGame/MarioKart8''[[/note]] how ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[='=]s non-character content is much more limited despite being nearly as big as ''Mario'',[[note]]Although the latter might have something to do with [[ScrewedByTheLawyers rights issues]], since Nintendo only has partial control over ''Pokémon''.[[/note]] and how some fans overrate the ''Mario'' franchise's prominence and importance ''even further''[[note]]using Mario's role and aesthetic as a barometer for new character suggestions, [[UnacceptableTargets excluding the franchise]] from their own made-up "rules" on what constitutes fair franchise representation, treating ''Smash'' as a ''Mario'' spinoff series due to its name, exaggerating the gap between ''Mario'' and ''Pokémon'' despite the latter being the most successful media franchise of all time, and even working the franchise's prestige into TierInducedScrappy discussions[[/note]] which causes HypeBacklash for those not of the same mind.
* Several fans appreciate the greater quantity of ''VideoGame/KidIcarus'' content in the fourth game, courtesy of ''VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising'' (with several new items, Smash Run enemies, and Dark Pit and Palutena being playable characters), which helps it stand out more as an established franchise with Nintendo's [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros other]] [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda big]] [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} leaguers]] compared to what it was like before. However, others believe that it ''wasn't'' established as a major league franchise and that a crossover game like this with so many different franchises in play was not a good place to establish one particular franchise, arguably to at the expense of others. In essence, many feel that this game went too far in the other direction, giving the series far more spotlight than it deserves, as it has only three games to its name, with its most recent game before 2012's ''KidIcarusUprising'' being ''Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters'' from 1991. Sakurai's involvement in ''Uprising'' doesn't help, as some people see it as him showing bias toward his own game. Dark Pit also being a near-identical MovesetClone of Pit was just another drop of salt on the wound. Palutena largely considered to be among the game's lowest end of [[TierInducedScrappy Tier Induced Scrappies]] without custom specials, and the HypeBacklash for her that came with it, doesn't help matters, either. Another sticking point is Smash Run, which has more enemies from ''Kid Icarus'' than any other franchise has; for instance, there are 19 enemies from ''Kid Icarus'' in Smash Run, but even the ''Mario'' franchise, the very face of Nintendo, only has 14, with even other big league franchises like ''Kirby'', ''Zelda'', ''Pokémon'' each get less than 10 and put together only have a couple more than ''Kid Icarus''. Not helping matters is that over half of those enemies are considered GoddamnedBats or DemonicSpiders.
* ''VideoGame/FireEmblem'' gets complaints of being more prominent in ''Smash'' than it should be, particularly among Western players as many of the games weren't released in the West until characters started to appear in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games. The fourth game has a particular case of this, as in addition to Marth and Ike it added characters from ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' in Robin, who has a unique playstyle among ''all'' of the characters in the game... and Lucina, who's a MovesetClone to Marth and widely considered to be an inferior [[SkillGateCharacters Skill Gate Character]]. Roy being added via DLC didn't cause too many waves due to his status as a returning veteran alongside Mewtwo and Lucas, but the series has gotten more scrutiny due to Corrin from ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'' being announced as the second to last DLC character. This gives the series a total of ''six'' characters appearing in ''Smash'' at once and pushes it to a similar level of representation as {{Cash Cow Franchise}}s ''Mario'', ''Zelda'', and ''Pokémon'' (every other series has three characters at most). At least prior to 2016-17, it was near-universally acknowledged that ''Fire Emblem'' has more characters than what makes sense for the franchise; some people are fine with this, often citing that the series, with a new universe used every 1-2 games, has way more viable characters vying for slots than any other series represented in Smash aside from Pokemon, while others are bitter about ''Fire Emblem'' being AdoredByTheNetwork. Some people in the latter camp have taken extreme views on the matter and brought Sakurai's ScapegoatCreator status to new heights[[note]]one person on [=GameFAQs=] [[SeriousBusiness even accused him of being a sociopath]] based on his ''Smash'' character choices[[/note]], which has only made things worse all around. Ironically, Sakurai stated in ''Famitsu'' that [[http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/12/masahiro_sakurai_talks_about_the_new_fighters_soon_to_be_added_to_super_smash_bros he too had concerns about overdoing it with Fire Emblem characters, but the rest of the dev team talked him into it.]] The news that [[https://mynintendonews.com/2016/04/28/fire-emblem-is-now-considered-a-major-ip-for-nintendo/ Nintendo considers Fire Emblem a major IP as of 2016]] and its continued success via games such as ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes''[[note]]generally considered Nintendo's best mobile game[[/note]] has caused defenders to argue that the allegation that the series is too minor for that number of characters no longer holds as much water, though detractors argue that 6 is still too much and that Nintendo shouldn't have used ''Smash'' as a platform for pushing the series.
* On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have the comparatively small amount of ''Franchise/DonkeyKong'' and ''Franchise/{{Metroid}}'' representation, especially the topic of King K. Rool and Ridley as possible playable characters. Some fans of these two series are vocal about this amount of representation and about new characters from, and overrepresentation of, series other than their own (especially ''Fire Emblem'' and ''Kid Icarus''). These fans claim that these characters are taking up slots that would have been reserved for ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Metroid'' characters, with K. Rool, Ridley and occasionally Dixie Kong constantly being brought up. Because they're {{Moveset Clone}}s, Lucina, Dark Pit and (to a lesser extent) Roy are particularly big targets for this type of criticism, as is unique character Corrin for taking up development time and the circumstances of their release and announcement. Supporters of this viewpoint claim that ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Metroid'' are two series that are very relevant to Nintendo's history and deserve more representation than other series, while opponents cite that the current level of representation is fine, that ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Metroid'' are less popular than they seem (particularly ''Metroid'' in Japan), that there's no such thing as "roster slots", and that other fans shouldn't complain about extra content that ''Fire Emblem'' and ''Kid Icarus'' fans are enjoying. Some fans argue that the excessive support for ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Metroid'' may be due to the NostalgiaFilter effect, as those franchises were ''inarguably'' among Nintendo's biggest during the SNES era and the [=GameCube=] era, respectively, but that they have (allegedly) tapered off in comparison to other franchises, for various reasons.
* One debate focuses not on a ''franchise'' taking up a disproportionate part of the roster, but a certain style of character, as some feel that there are too many swordsmen. This doesn't just mean characters that use their sword and only their sword, like Marth, Ike, or Shulk, but anyone that happens to ''have'' a sword, like Link and Robin. As of the fifth game, sixteen out of the 65+ characters[[note]]Link, Young Link, Marth, Lucina, Ganondorf, Roy, Meta Knight, Pit, Dark Pit, Ike, Toon Link, Mii Swordfighter, Robin, Shulk, Cloud, and Corrin[[/note]] have swordplay as part of their moveset, which is a point of contention for people talking about roster additions or cuts. Swords are fairly prominent in Nintendo's [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda high]] [[VideoGame/FireEmblem fantasy]] [[VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}} franchises]], so people will often point out that their [[HeroesPreferSwords respective protagonists]] will usually get first dibs for new roster additions, so more swords should be expected. On the other hand, other people are seeing this as a reason to call for characters like [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Hector]], [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheSacredStones Ephraim]], [[Franchise/{{Castlevania}} Simon Belmont]], VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[Franchise/StarFox Krystal]], or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]] to make the jump to the roster just because they have a non-sword weapon. Heaven forbid you want to discuss how potentially different [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]], [[VideoGame/SinAndPunishment Saki]], [[VideoGame/NazoNoMurasameJo Takamaru]], or [[VideoGame/TheFrogForWhomTheBellTolls the Sablé Prince]] could be compared to anyone else, just because they use swords of some kind. This discussion is also only ever held about swords and nothing else, despite ''[=SSB4=]'' and ''Ultimate'' having more than half as many firearm-wielding characters as sword users.[[note]]Samus, Fox, Falco, Zero Suit Samus, Snake, Diddy Kong, R.O.B., Wolf, Mega Man, Mii Gunner, Bayonetta, and the Inklings[[/note]]
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Mechanics]]
* While a divide between [[CasualCompetitiveConflict casual and competitive camps]] was already starting to appear in the late days of ''Melee'', the release of ''Brawl'' absolutely shattered the fanbase, and to this day the aftershocks are still felt. Even when you get past the specific debates such as [[DifficultButAwesome DACUS vs wavedashing]], random tripping, the removal of manual L-cancelling, and the greatly reduced emphasis on extended combos, ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' still have two distinct tactile/heuristic systems. In general, ''Melee'' matches are significantly faster and shorter, characters have much higher weight and falling speeds, and attacks stun enemies for longer periods of time, leading to an aggressive, combo-laden metagame. ''Brawl'' by contrast has greatly reduced gravity, and all characters can escape from hitstun in less than a quarter-second with an air dodge (which we'll get to in a second), not to mention recovering from off-stage is much more forgiving, leading to a more defensive metagame based on positioning and singular, powerful hits. With less experienced players being able to survive for much longer in ''Brawl'', the two games practically became war banners for the CasualCompetitiveConflict and their respective strawmen. ''Smash 4'' has somewhat rectified this conflict, but there are still holdouts who stick to ''Melee'' and even ''Brawl'' in favor of the new game.
* Momentum-conserving air dodge (''Brawl'' onward) vs directional air dodge (''Melee''). Supporters of the former prefer it because it is much easier to use, much more useful for its intended use, and makes approaching much easier, while the directional air dodge is nearly useless and only has wavedashing as a possible saving grace. Supporters of the latter say that the momentum-conserving air dodge is ''too'' useful for its intended use, cripples the ground game because of short-hop air dodging rendering projectiles useless, cripples {{Mighty Glacier}}s due to the ability to easily dodge their slow attacks multiple times in midair, and the directional air dodge forces more strategy in its use, as well as allowing wavedashing. This conflict was felt at its most extreme back when ''Brawl'' had a more lively competitive scene: momentum airdodge [[ComboBreaker allowed escape from ANY combo in the game]] should the combo's victim get even thirteen frames[[note]]less than a quarter of a second[[/note]] of respite. This provably skewed ''Brawl''[='=]s metagame to be very combo-light, though whether this was a good or bad thing again depends on who you ask. Notably, momentum airdodge is no longer nearly as potent in ''4''.
* Advanced techniques in general -- unintended side-effects of the games' engines that can be exploited for some sort of advantage. The most notable would be the plethora found in ''Melee'' -- most famously wavedashing - but others such as ''Brawl''[='=]s DACUS exist. Each game has a few of its own and it's always been a sensitive issue, especially going from installment to installment as Nintendo often removes them in the following game, though the introduction of official balance patches in ''Smash 4'' has replicated the entire conflict in miniature.
** One camp (primarily comp players) supports their usage and believe that Nintendo should embrace and balance around them as official mechanics, noting their competitive usefulness as well as the fact that in some cases (such as wavedashing) the devs even knew about them but left them in. They cite similar cases such as combos in ''VideoGame/StreetFighterII'' or skiing in ''{{VideoGame/Tribes}}'' - two other GoodBadBugs that would [[AscendedGlitch go on to become official features]] and define those series' competitive scenes - and believe removal of discovered advanced techniques would cause a game to stagnate and get boring, whereas ''Melee''[='=]s metagame is still evolving as new ones are found.
** The other camp dislikes them, arguing that they're often unintuitive both in concept and execution[[note]]such as wavedashing being performed by a non-obvious button combination that requires high dexterity to pull off and that its usage is completely foreign to what airdodging is supposed to do[[/note]], which runs counter to Smash's goal of accessibility. They support Nintendo removing these "techniques" as they were not intentional in the first place and may unpredictably affect the balance of the game in the long run, citing how unrefined ''Melee''[='=]s engine actually ''is'' if its metagame is still "evolving" fifteen years later. They further argue that the removal of many techniques in later games or patches proves that even the ones that ''were'' knowingly left in wouldn't have been if the devs knew just what the implications would be, and that comp players should ''not'' take their inclusion for granted.
* Rolling in ''4'' has stirred up massive controversy due to both the increase in speed and invincibility frames of the maneuver. Supporters say that the rolling buff makes a once highly punishable mechanic actually useful (while still being punishable) and that, coupled with the increase in speed from ''Brawl'', the game has a good offense-defense balance. Detractors say that rolling is now way too effective and turns the game into a turtling match just like ''Brawl'' since they are far too hard to punish. Some say that only ''specific'' rolls need to be nerfed: some characters like Little Mac and Sonic have extremely agile rolls while others such as Rosalina and Palutena have "warp" rolls that are almost as fast while also causing them to disappear for the duration.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:[=WiiU/3DS=]]]
* Nintendo's decision to [[MultiPlatform release the fourth game on both Wii U and 3DS]] has drawn some ire from more cynical fans who saw as a shameless cash grab by attempting to get people to buy the same game twice, especially after it was announced that the 3DS version would launch several months before the Wii U version. Some were convinced that the 3DS' weaker specs would cause negative restrictions that carry over to the Wii U version, or would rather just have [[OneGameForThePriceOfTwo all the content on a single game rather than splitting it between two releases]]. The more optimistic fans felt that the multiplatform release saves them the trouble of having to buy a new system just for ''Smash'', and has led to more content being created than what would've been received for a single game. It got worse after MasahiroSakurai [[WordOfGod confirmed]] in a [[http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-addresses-ice-climbers-absence-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds-and-more-in-new-famitsu-column/ Famitsu article]] that technical limitations on the 3DS were indeed the reason behind the Ice Climbers not returning in the fourth game. Further dislike was aimed at the 3DS version after most of the features in the Wii U version were revealed, with people calling the 3DS game a waste of money or a simple beta test for the Wii U game.
* The reason many tournament players are none too pleased with the "For Glory" mode is because they feel the "NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!" meme has created a false stereotype of every tournament ever (tournaments ''can'' show more variety than the flattest, plainest stage in the game), which was then erroneously picked up by Sakurai, only furthering the caricaturization. Making matters worse, it's more than just an annoying stereotype: Final Destination is widely considered to be unfairly skewed towards projectile users in the competitive scene, which somewhat renders the entire point of "For Glory" moot.
* Due to the Omega stages, the regular stages for ''Super Smash Bros. 4'' have become wilder and crazier than ever. Most of them shift, morph, move, have stage hazards, have selective benefits for some players, are just plain huge, or a combination of the above. Among competitive players, this makes AbridgedArenaArray far more pronounced in these two games than ever before, and the lack of variety in stages they are comfortable playing in makes them very unhappy.
* The split of Zero Suit Samus and Sheik from their primary counterparts is causing a bit of this, because there's a number of players who ''actually'' liked switching forms in battle for more interesting gameplay. Special mention goes to Zelda/Sheik, whose players wished the transformation move was assigned to a new button combination, or at least to the touch screen on [[UsefulNotes/WiiU both]] [[UsefulNotes/Nintendo3DS systems]]. It got worse when it was revealed that the reason why the transformations were cut was because [[http://www.gamnesia.com/news/transformations-were-cut-from-smash-due-to-3ds-limitations the Nintendo 3DS wasn't powerful enough to handle them]] (the same reason why the Ice Climbers were cut), upsetting the "Shielda" players even more.
* [[http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/e3-2013-no-plans-for-smash-bros-dlc-tripping-removed Sakurai's initial plan to avoid adding]] DownloadableContent for the Wii U and 3DS games was either proof that Nintendo was ensuring that the game was complete and polished before it was released, or that Nintendo was making another financial mistake with online gameplay. The announcement that ''VideoGame/MarioKart8'' would be getting post-launch DLC renewed confidence that he might have changed his mind and would add DLC for the game later on, while it also irritated people who strongly dislike DLC. The differing opinions over the game's final roster only made the debate that much worse. With the advent of [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap Mewtwo's DLC announcement]], it seems it was going to be adding some DLC after all -- in Mewtwo's specific case, it's a free download '''if''' you have both the ''3DS'' and ''Wii U'' versions of the game... [[OneGameForThePriceOfTwo so, not REALLY free]]. The kicker, however, is that Nintendo [[PoorCommunicationKills didn't specify right away]] whether or not Mewtwo could be downloaded by paying if the player only had one version of the game -- making people think that getting both games was the ''only'' way to get it. This was corrected a couple of months later by confirming that Mewtwo could be purchased for one version, but during that time some of the playerbase was ''livid'' when they believed that they'd have to pay over $100 just to have one more character; the rest were just happy that DLC was confirmed and that they could play as Mewtwo again.
* Smash Run, from the 3DS version. Some people love it for featuring enemies from many of Nintendo's franchises like ''Melee''[='=]s Adventure Mode did and being challenging. Even just the fact they brought back the [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry Kremlings]] caused fangasms. Others hate it for having way too many GoddamnedBats and DemonicSpiders, the final match being completely random (and to add insult to injury, the game rarely tells you what it is), and having no way to customize matches like its inspiration, ''VideoGame/KirbyAirRide''[='=]s City Trial.[[note]]The City Trial allowed players to determine how long the matches last, how often events occurred, (including the option to turn them off), and what the final match would be.[[/note]] Despite this, some of the hate subsided when Smash Tour was revealed and was much more widely disliked; to this day, Smash Run is considered one of the advantages that the 3DS version has over the Wii U version despite the 3DS version being inferior to its Wii U counterpart overall.
* Smash Tour, from the Wii U version. When it was revealed in the "50-Fact Extravaganza" video, some were looking forward to it, and others weren't. Those excited for it saw it as a potentially fun party mode, while those not excited for it saw it as confusing and unnecessary. After the game's release, some were satisfied, and many weren't, with many of the detractors calling one of the worst modes (if not ''the'' worst) in Smash history. Many of the complaints include the mode being confusing, unfair, frustrating (especially for single players), and being based entirely around building up a good stock pool when the final deciding fight is a timed match [[note]]This means that at an extreme, if you gathered say 100 stock it would mean almost nothing, because high stock is only valuable to OTHER players as points to take from you, and a timed match requires 2 players. The moment the player below you is KO'd leaving you alone, the round ends which effectively means that it's the SECOND place that dictates how long the match is and they only have to get more [=KOs=] than you to overwrite your ninety-something lead entirely.[[/note]] and many felt that Smash Run from the 3DS version[[note]]itself a pretty polarizing mode[[/note]] should have just been in the Wii U version instead.
* Custom moves. Nearly every fan rejoiced at the revelation of this feature, as it would open up many avenues for gameplay. However, some were worried that they would only be slight tweaks to the existing specials instead of completely different moves. When this turned out to be true (for all but the Miis, Palutena and to a lesser extent, Mega Man), they complained that Sakurai did not develop a good idea to its fullest potential, as many characters had far too much potential for unique specials (Link's other tools, Mario's other power-ups, and Wario's ''VideoGame/WarioLand''/''VideoGame/WarioWorld'' moves being examples) that went ignored for their barely-different existing specials. [[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising Palutena]] getting completely different specials in particular is a sore point, as many believe that either a non-Mii shouldn't have received this feature, or that Sakurai was simply biased and lazy and only developed the full potential of custom moves for one character.
* Some people have noticed an increased emphasis on later Nintendo games (with Duck Hunt being the only real "retro" newcomer) in the fourth game and worry that this means Nintendo is exerting more ExecutiveMeddling this time around, trying to turn the game into an extension of their advertising arm and ruining its status as a MuseumGame. Other people think that this group is being overly reactionary, or that SSB was always at least partially meant to advertise and that they're just now noticing it. A third group doesn't care either way and just want to make Kirby punch Bowser in the gut.
* The 3DS version itself was initially believed to be inferior to the Wii U version in every way, was labeled as a "$40 demo", and was blamed for the exclusion of the Ice Climbers and character transformations. After the Wii U version's release, fans began criticizing some of its features such as the overly gimmicky stages, the unconventional and random Classic Mode, and Smash Tour - and then noticed that the 3DS version's equivalents didn't suffer from the same flaws. Nowadays, it's more debatable whether the 3DS version was worth it, and whether it would have been preferable to have all ''its'' stages and features in the Wii U version instead; general consensus is that it's still the inferior version, but nonetheless has its own advantages.
* ''[=SSB4=]''[='=]s more [[LighterAndSofter kid-friendly]] Everyone 10+ ESRB age rating (only in North America). While nobody is outright happy about it (possibly except for some parents) and the vast majority of fans don't mind it, a few fans have noticed that this has led the game to be [[AnimationAgeGhetto stereotyped as a "children's game"]] more than the two previous titles were, and miss the days when ''Smash'' had a more mature reputation. This factor subtly contributes to some fans' nostalgia towards ''Melee'' and, to a lesser extent, ''Brawl''; however, some argue that ''Melee'' would easily have been rated [=E10+=] if the rating had existed at the time, and that ''Brawl''[='=]s Teen rating was mostly due to the more realistic graphics and a few darker Subspace Emissary scenes. This seems to have ended after all the game's DLC characters were revealed; except for Mewtwo and possibly Lucas, most of them are from series that skew more towards older fans, particularly the third-party characters (''especially'' the M-rated VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}) despite Snake not returning. Note that [[ValuesDissonance this only applies to American fans]], as the Smash Bros series has always received a CERO "A" rating in Japan (the rough equivalent to E for Everyone), while in Europe it ''increased'' from 7+ (roughly Everyone) for ''Melee'' to 12+ (roughly Teen) for ''Brawl'' and ''[=SSB4=]''.
* The Smash Ballot caused a stir within the very reaches of the fandom itself. With the promise that we would get some fighters as DLC suggested by the fans, there was going to be an inevitable divide on Sakurai's hands. There were some people who wanted new 1st party fighters, others wanted new 3rd party fighters, more wanted some veterans back (most notably Solid Snake from Metal Gear and Wolf O'Donnell from Star Fox) and a few suggested memetic characters. With the revelation of VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} being chosen based on her high ranking in the Smash Ballot, the fan arguments and lamenting over who didn't get in flared right back up, now compounded by complaints about how Nintendo handled the ballot. Bayonetta herself was notably the ''only'' pick from the ballot, whereas the rest of the DLC characters had no involvement with it whatsoever. Not only did this mean [[ShaggyDogStory the whole thing was nothing but a giant popularity contest]], [[EndingFatigue it wasn't revealed until Bayonetta's announcement]]. People were quite upset at being kept in the dark about this rather important stipulation until the very end, and while some players agree that the other DLC characters are still diverse and fun enough as they are, most believe that Nintendo could've done better with more ballot picks instead.
* In terms of stages, the Miiverse stage. Some feel that the idea of a stage where people can make encouraging or strangely funny posts for people to see while fighting is a great idea, while others dislike the high amounts of {{GIFT}}s and [[{{Rule34}} inappropriate drawings]]. [[SoBadItsGood Other love it]] for those {{GIFT}}s and innapropriate drawings.
* While the [[FreeFallFight Umbra Clock Tower]], based on the opening cinematic from the first ''{{VideoGame/Bayonetta}}'' game, is being highly accepted as not only [[SceneryPorn visually stunning]] but celebrated as finally a tournament friendly stage in being a counter-pick (after a dry spell of almost all DLC stages being outright tournament-banned), the music selection, on the other hand, is more divisive. Some fans of the franchise were upset beloved tracks like ''Fly Me to the Moon'' and ''[[{{VideoGame/Bayonetta2}} Moon River]]'' were left out (although those had the issue of copyright to deal with) as well as ''You May Call Me Father'' and ''The Greatest Jubilee'' (which don't have copyright issues). On the other hand, the stage does have an impressive 11 tracks as it is, and some fans argue that even with the selection, every track is still AwesomeMusic.
* Similarly, [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Midgar]] caused people some grief over its music selection, or lack thereof. The number of My Music tracks available for the stage on Wii U on is literally exactly the same as on the 3DS, and that version still only has two songs (and neither of them are remixes... or "One Winged Angel"). Some fans were annoyed and think that, considering the sheer amount of AwesomeMusic the ''Franchise/{{Final Fantasy}}'' franchise has spawned, Nintendo and/or Square Enix could have done a much better job with the soundtrack than they did, while others think that the songs they ''did'' choose are still very good and fitting.
* Even Palutena's Guidance in the Wii U version is a part of this category. Many people find it pretty cute and funny, while other people think it's inferior, unfunny, or obnoxious compared to Snake's codecs in the ''Brawl'', with the specific arguments being that Snake's Codecs were funnier because ''VideoGame/MetalGear'' stars relatively normal and normally serious characters commenting on the often ridiculous, cutesy fantasy franchises Snake is sharing the game with, whereas ''VideoGame/KidIcarus'' is already a "cutesy fantasy" franchise, meaning their commentary has less effect. The other common argument is that many feel Palutena's Guidance puts more emphasis on the characters who are speaking than the characters that they're talking about. Ironically, Palutena's Guidance was a very popular idea for the game before it was officially revealed; many people argue that [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot it wasn't as well-done as it could have been]] due to the writing being inferior to that of ''VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising'' itself and due to the absence of popular, scene-stealing ''Kid Icarus'' characters such as Hades and Magnus. Above all other arguments is that many feel that the ''Kid Icarus'' franchise is already disproportionately over-represented in this game and that this is just a big example of that greater problem.
** The Guidance on Robin is a particular source of ire. The conversation has little to do with Robin and is mostly Viridi mocking Chrom for not making it into the game. Some find this funny, while others feel that it's Sakurai using the ''Kid Icarus'' cast as a mouthpiece to mock Chrom fans who wanted to see him playable. It doesn't help that Viridi claims Chrom is "too similar" to Ike and "doesn't have an Aether recovery move." Chrom actually does learn Aether in ''Awakening'', and the "too similar" line is the most hated because a Kid Icarus character, Dark Pit, is the MovesetClone with the least differences from the character he originates from. Especially in-universe it's explained Dark Pit is now working for Viridi, so she doesn't have the excuse of not knowing -- which means fans who dislike this Guidance see it as hypocritical and mean-spirited, which fits perfectly with Viridi's character, but is still cruel at a meta level.
* In a nutshell, ''Smash 4'' causes lots of BrokenBase. Do the graphics (particularly the Wii U version's) look watered-down compared to ''Brawl'' or do they look beautiful? Are both games' content considered extremely lacking or is there enough? Are the newcomers worth it or should they be replaced by other "worthy" characters? Should there be more third-party characters or not? And for that matter, should characters from controversial companies or companies with strained relationships with Nintendo, such as [[VideoGame/MetalGear Solid Snake]] and Franchise/{{Rayman}}, be part of the roster or not?
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Other]]
* ''Melee''[='=]s arcade-style Adventure Mode vs. ''[[VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary]]'' in ''Brawl''. Those who prefer ''Melee''[='=]s Adventure Mode criticize the latter for being excessively long, being cutscene-dominated, and (especially) having a completely neutral setting with locations only vaguely resembling locations from the various Nintendo games represented. Those who prefer ''The Subspace Emissary'' consider it to be an improvement, considering ''Melee''[='=]s Adventure Mode to be little more than Classic Mode with a few platforming levels and minor gimmicks, with very little substance to it otherwise. The news that there would be no Adventure Mode at all in ''4'' caused these debates to flare up again, though many would simply be happy to have one that combines the best of both worlds.
* Competitive players argue over whether Meta Knight should be banned in ''Brawl'' tournaments, though many tournament organizers as of late seem fine with simply handicapping him instead of completely banning him.
* Event Matches in general. Many people agree that ''Melee''[='=]s events are superior to the events in ''Brawl'', especially when there were unique events like Trophy Tussles. The last event in ''Melee'', where you fought against Mewtwo, Ganondorf, and Giga Bowser, is considered superior to the final events in both ''Brawl'' and ''[=SSB4=]'', where you fight against Mario and the third-party characters. ''[=SSB4=]''[='=]s final event in particular is criticized because instead of fighting them all at once, you fight them two at a time, with one replacing the other. It doesn't help that the penultimate single-player event matches in both games are the same exact event: fighting against Bowser, Ganondorf, and Dedede on Final Destination.
* The [[EmbeddedPrecursor Masterpieces]] in ''Brawl'' and ''Wii U'', which are time-limited demos of games that are available on the Virtual Console. Some think they're a great way of introducing old classics to newer generations, while others think they're a complete waste of space on the disc and/or think the time limits are too short to get a proper experience of the game. Not to mention, in ''Wii U'''s case, the lack of N64 games.
* The concept of characters as LivingToys. While a source of EpilepticTrees, the only things confirmed are Iwata [[WordOfGod stating that]] the games represent imaginary fights between toy characters (even ''VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary'' doesn't answer many questions), and that CanonWelding exists for the ''Kid Icarus'', ''Fire Emblem'' and ''Bayonetta'' characters. Some people agree with the concept and even take it further in some instances, claiming it to be similar to ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory'' or ''VideoGame/DisneyInfinity'' and treating the characters as ''literal'' animate dolls/figures. Others claim that it devalues the whole crossover/fighting concept and will point to the aforementioned CanonWelding as proof that the characters are "real" in some capacity, or [[FanonDiscontinuity even dismiss the concept of living trophies entirely]]. The debate is very similar to ''VideoGame/SuperMarioBros3'' being [[AnimatedActors confirmed to be a stage play]], albeit with less overt confirmation of the "fakeness" of the concept.
* The ''Melee'' competitive scene. ''Melee'' is the most popular ''Smash'' game to watch and play competitively, and many people enjoy both the fast-paced high-level battles and the larger-than-life personalities of popular Smashers such as [=Mew2King=] and Armada. Others (especially fans of the later games, and even ''other fighting games'') resent the ''Melee'' community and treat it (or even the game itself) with HypeBacklash, as its competitive elitism is largely responsible for the FandomRivalry and CasualCompetitiveConflict between games. Some even find competitive ''Melee'' to be SnarkBait for factors such as turning a family-friendly party game into a SeriousBusiness professional sport, overemphasizing its GoodBadBugs, rampant ComplacentGamingSyndrome reducing the game to "[[MemeticMutation no items, Fox only, Final Destination]]", relying on antiquated equipment such as CRT televisions and very specific [=GameCube=] controllers that suffer from a bug, and the "[[MassiveMultiplayerCrossover Nintendo All-Stars]]" aspect being disregarded in favor of treating ''professional players'' as the characters of the game rather than the fighters themselves. There's also the accusations of players trying to steal, blackmail, and bully the CRT from events. The general uncleanliness of the melee based has lead to a few of them being cancelled or barred from using locations ever again. And most damningly of all is that the Melee crowd refuses to use actual fighting game terminology thats been around since ''Street Fighter'' and will mock those that do.

[[/folder]]

to:

To briefly describe it, the fanbase has been divided on several aspects: which game is the best of the series, [[CasualCompetitiveConflict and whether the games should be played casually or competitively]], which leads to divisions regarding the use of items and which stages to play with, creating CharacterTiers, and of course who should be on the roster. Many unofficial ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' themed boards and forums, for example Smash Boards or /r/smashbros, generally have a large divide between casual and competitive players, with the most vocal being seen as the stereotypical fans.
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[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:Characters]]
The most common argument is over which characters should or should not be in the game -- or if they are in the game, how they're handled.

'''[[BaseBreakingCharacter Characters]]'''
* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''' in general is [[SacredCow the most beloved Nintendo character of all time]], but his personality and treatment in ''Smash'' have been slightly contentious. ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' eschew Mario's usual FunPersonified depiction for a more "hardcore" and "[[TheStoic stoic]]" vibe barely seen elsewhere apart from ''VideoGame/SuperMarioStrikers''; some fans enjoy this different take on Mario because it fits more with the game's diverse blend of characters, while others claim that it makes him less likable and doesn't mesh well with his quirky, iconic design and voice, not helped by his MostAnnoyingSound of "Hoooooo... HAH!" during ''all three of his victory poses'' in those two games. Additionally, Mario gets more focus than any other character in the games and their marketing; aside from the bloated and sometimes redundant representation of his franchise in general, he's the universal "default" or "tester" character for many of the in-game options, many ads and the "How to Play" videos play up his rivalry with DK or Bowser rather than the MassiveMultiplayerCrossover aspect,[[note]]although this applies to ads targeted more towards children and families, who [[JustHereForGodzilla treat the series as a Mario spinoff]]; ads targeted towards older gamers put less overt emphasis on Mario[[/note]] and he was a notoriously and annoyingly common Toys/{{amiibo}} for most of 2014 and 2015. Some people accept this due to his role as Nintendo's mascot and the resident JackOfAllStats character, while others claim that [[WolverinePublicity excessive exposure of any kind]] is bad and that Mario's fame and importance don't make him immune to its adverse effects.
* '''[[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Link]]''' is also one of Nintendo's most beloved characters; however, he causes some friction in the fanbase and is stereotyped as an "[[HypeBacklash overrated]] {{scrub}} character" due to his popularity and tier status, creating a case very comparable to Charizard in the ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' fanbase.[[note]]Charizard has its own entry for its ''Smash'' appearance below, which differs quite a bit.[[/note]] Link is easily one of the most loved and most popular characters in ''Smash'', is a frequent sight in casual play for each of the four games, and frequently tops ''Smash'' and Nintendo character popularity polls in the West (even beating out Mario himself). However, some fans mock Link in the first three games for being [[TierInducedScrappy a generally ineffective character]][[note]]even though he's mid-tier in ''Melee''[[/note]], and for attracting large numbers of less experienced players who tend to be [[VocalMinority overly vocal]] about their disbelief in tiers. In the fourth game, Link is a much better character, but is still frowned upon by some for being an annoying "projectile spam" character, as well as the HypeBacklash caused by his general popularity and his ubiquity on For Glory (which, in turn, provides more annoying "projectile spam" to deal with). Despite this, most of the fanbase's "hatred" towards Link is largely tongue-in-cheek, and he's still a generally respected character overall.
* Many people like '''Jigglypuff''', as it was one of the best characters in ''Melee'', and the fact that it was Japan's second favorite Pokémon (behind Pikachu) kind of makes its inclusion a bit easier to understand. However, there are many people, especially in other countries, that feel its time has passed and made it [[TheArtifact irrelevant and unimportant]] - an opinion which is due largely in part to the fact that the anime Jigglypuff, whom the Smash Jigglypuff draws most of its inspiration from, having not appeared in the show for well over a decade until 2017. Despite this, making even a strong argument for Jigglypuff's potential exclusion is largely considered a FandomHeresy, with some fans insisting that it shouldn't and cannot ''ever'' be cut from the roster [[FirstInstallmentWins just because it's one of the original 12 characters]] (despite no official statements along those lines).
* '''Pikachu''' also gets this treatment. In the Franchise/{{Pokemon}} franchise, he occasionally raises complaints due to his KidAppealCharacter nature and WolverinePublicity, and is also a symbol of the polarizing [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} anime series]]. In ''Smash'', it's just as prominent as he is in the anime (and is depicted the same way), and is the only Pokémon universally agreed to never be cut from the series (a few people in the fandom is in the mindset that Jigglypuff is hanging on by a thread, though we have no idea if that's actually the case... at least in [=SSB4=], as Jigglypuff barely avoided the axe in Brawl, as noted above). As ''Pokémon'' is a franchise with over 700 diverse collectible creatures, whether this is a good thing or not depends on whether you like Pikachu in the first place. The reveal of Pikachu in ''VideoGame/PokkenTournament'' with a more serious attitude and realistic design has only worsened things -- some argue that ''Pokkén'' Pikachu would have been a perfect portrayal for ''Smash'' (as the design/personality overhaul is similar to Mario's) as opposed to him currently being a straight copy of [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} Ash's Pikachu]]. As Pikachu is a high or top tier in all of his ''Smash'' appearances, some people find him to be a TierInducedScrappy and are annoyed at how it violates ''Pokémon'' canon (since Pikachu is a very weak species), while others are glad that Pikachu gets to live up to his fame by actually being very useful in battle, unlike in ''Pokémon''.
* '''Peach'''. Carrying over from her DamselInDistress status in [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros her home series]], some people find her annoying, especially due to her high-pitched voice, her taunts and her "Oh, did I win!" victory quote, and her general TastesLikeDiabetes nature with SuperCuteSuperpowers. Other people love her for ''those exact reasons'', which, along with her flirtatious personality and [[AssKicksYou butt-based attacks]] in ''Smash'', make her a [[BadassAdorable cute]] but disrespectful {{troll}} character; it also helps that she ranges from decent to top-tier competitively in all her appearances.
'''[[{{Franchise/Metroid}} Zero Suit Samus]]''': She was also briefly a SpotlightStealingSquad in marketing and promotion for the fourth game, though not as much as Mario himself, which annoyed her haters as well as fans of the other ''Mario'' characters and other characters in general.
* In a similar vein to Peach is '''Wario'''. Moveset and use of source material aside, some people find him to be a disgusting, irritating and unendearing FatSlob (especially with his infamous [[{{Gasshole}} Wario Waft]] move), while others find him to be a hilarious UglyCute {{troll}} character and love using him to humorous effect ([[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment especially with his infamous Wario Waft move]]).
* '''Roy''' is perhaps one of the biggest examples in the entire series, with both an extremely big fandom and hatedom. On one side people praise him as a cooler and more fun version of Marth, and a welcome returning veteran to Smash 4 like Mewtwo, while on the other he's downright loathed for being seen as a pointless and irrelevant clone character that should've never come back. It doesn't help that a big chunk of both the Fire Emblem and Smash fandoms see him as nothing but a subject of hate and mockery. When it comes down to it, people either love Roy and see him as a fun and welcome addition to the series, or they think he's a terrible Marth clone that should've never gotten the spotlight. ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' vindicated him somewhat, as it finally gave him a proper non-''Smash'' appearance internationally (as one of its first heroes, no less) and somewhat strengthened his case for future ''Smash'' games.
* '''Diddy Kong''' has been getting a strong and unusual case of this with the fourth game. He is a popular character in [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry his home series]] and is absolutely not without fans here considering he was a requested and rejoiced character in Brawl and Wii U/3DS. However, his infuriatingly effective play-style, combined with his goofy appearance and [[MisplacedWildlife being a monkey that makes]] [[MostAnnoyingSound frequent and loud chimpanzee noises]], has caused a large amount of players to lash out against him and decry him to be an annoyingly juvenile character. And while his return to the fourth game was welcomed, hate proceeded to grow to enormous levels once competitive players discovered his buffs, which made him into a character decried as "the new Meta Knight" for being a hassle to fight in addition to providing jokes on how the tournament scene is dominated by a silly monkey. While Diddy's slight nerfs in the 1.0.6 patch were well-received, he received additional nerfs in 1.0.8 that toned down many of his more powerful attributes and reignited the debate; some people are glad that Diddy is no longer a "cheap" and frustrating character to play against, while others find the nerfs to be excessive and find that they ruined a perfectly viable and balanced character, similar to how Greninja was nerfed in early patches.
* For ''Star Fox'' characters, you've got '''Falco''' fans vs. '''Wolf''' fans. Most think that three similar ''Star Fox'' characters in ''Brawl'' is one too many, but bringing up the subject will start arguments over whether the character to drop should be Falco or Wolf, as well as what exactly constitutes a MovesetClone (since Wolf has similar special moves but different normal ones). Ultimately, Wolf was the one that got cut, and fans debate whether or not his removal was a good thing (removing a clone for those who don't like him and removing someone who represents the franchise for his fans).
** And then there's a third camp that wanted '''Krystal''' instead, primarily because her staff gives her potential for a moveset that isn't the Blaster-FlashStep-Fire-Reflector set that makes up all of the Star Fox characters who have been on the roster so far.
* The '''VideoGame/{{Ice Climber}}s''' were famous {{Base Breaking Character}}s in their own right due to [[TierInducedScrappy their tier status in tournaments]], but upon the reason for their cut being that the 3DS can't handle them, their fans blew their tops. This led to a debate on whether or not the 3DS version was worth it if Ice Climbers weren't in if they can't be on the UsefulNotes/WiiU version or if people are complaining about something that was out of Sakurai's control.
* '''Young Link''' vs. '''Toon Link'''. Some have no problems with either of them, wanting to play as either Link not in his adult form or the Link in the cel-shaded games. Others prefer one over the other. Others wish that they had different movesets than the adult Link, especially in that they both get a plethora of items in their respective games. Others dislike both characters, saying that one Link is enough.
* People who like the '''Wii Fit Trainer''' say she's a fresh, creative addition to the roster, and that her [[FightingClown moves]] and [[TrollingCreator inclusion]] are just plain funny. People who dislike her don't find her to be fresh or creative (her yoga is a mere aesthetic quirk), or aren't amused by shock characters in all-star fighting games.
* '''Zero Suit Samus'''. Some people like her
''Brawl's'' darkhorse for her interesting moveset, for being [[MsFanservice very beautiful]], for adding more variety to Samus' playstyle in ''Brawl'', and for essentially being a [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] to the beloved Captain Falcon. Other people A separate, large faction has since grown to despise her for being a blatant MsFanservice in a game that didn't need any, for being a much better character than the Varia-suited Samus[[note]]which completely violates ''Metroid'' canon,[[/note]] and most of all, for [[BestKnownForTheFanservice allegedly attracting horny fanboys]] uninterested in the ''Metroid'' games and giving Samus too much of a reputation as a "sexy blonde chick" rather than a powerful warrior -- a debate that spills over to the ''Metroid'' fandom. The heat only increased when the Zero Suit was redesigned to resemble her appearance in ''Other M'', an extremely controversial game, with added [[CombatStilettos weaponized high heels]] a la [[HilariousInHindsight Bayonetta]].
fandom.
* '''VideoGame/{{Mii}}s''' in ''4'' were a popular request, but they were a base breaker initially due to their simplistic designs and their association with games highly unpopular in the ''Smash'' fandom, such as ''VideoGame/WiiSports''. Other fans embraced their inclusion as a welcome character customization option, complete with a reference to the [[MemeticMutation petition to include Reggie Fils-Aime]] in the roster in their introduction trailer. There's also a third camp who did want Miis in, but wanted them to have moves that referenced the "Wii" series like ''VideoGame/WiiSports'' or ''VideoGame/WiiFit'' instead of the completely original moves. The confirmation that Mii Fighters could not be used while fighting online in "With Anyone" is another issue, as fans are split on whether this was a good decision due to the balancing issues and it being consistent with custom movesets being banned online (not to mention [[{{Troll}} the potential for creating offensive]] [[VideoGamePerversityPotential or outright vulgar characters]]), or if it was a waste of development time to add a character that cannot be used in all parts of the game.
* '''Lucina''' is a very divisive character, with a vocal fandom ''and'' an equally vocal hatedom.
'''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Lucina]]''': As one of the most popular modern ''Fire Emblem'' characters, she was added to the game as a MovesetClone of her ancestor Marth. Some people Her fans enjoyed her addition as a cool-looking female swordfighter, especially those who liked her character in ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening''. Others Detractors lambasted her for allegedly adding to the ''Fire Emblem'' "overrepresentation" in the game, much like with Dark Pit and ''Kid Icarus''. The latter case wasn't helped at all by the presence of a unique ''Awakening'' character (Robin) and later another more unique Marth clone (Roy) in the game. Her MovesetClone nature has also seen differing views; there are those who appreciate that she didn't take up development time from more unique characters (a major criticism of Corrin), while there are others who believe that her moveset makes her one of the most unnecessary and redundant additions to the roster, although this was mitigated somewhat when she received in-game buffs to turn her from a bottom-tier character[[note]]another major factor behind her hate[[/note]] to a high-tier one similar to Marth.
Icarus''.
* '''Meta Knight''''s [[http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/metaknight.html return]] in ''4'' has stirred up some controversy within the fanbase. While some people were happy to see him back, others are still bitter over his [[GameBreaker OP tier status]] in ''Brawl'' which caused him to become banned in a few tournaments. Thankfully, he appears to have been nerfed somewhat, which will hopefully calm his detractors a bit. Ironically, he has been getting a bit of AlasPoorScrappy due to Diddy Kong -- viewed as a much more generic, uncool and "kiddy" character -- having a very similar TierInducedScrappy status to what Meta Knight himself had in ''Brawl'', with some people missing the days when the overpowered character was a "cool" one.
* '''Rosalina and Luma''' were generally liked by people at first, but when the game released, people realized how annoying she was to fight against due to the way her moveset worked. Things got worse with people citing Rosalina as forced for getting so much focus in Smash Bros and the Mario series proper. Luma is less hated than Rosalina, but gets scorned for being a 'respawning Nana'.
** A less vocal fanbase take issue with her character slot saying "Rosalina ''& Luma''", when in fact only she is controlled and not the Luma.
* '''VideoGame/DrMario''' is hated by some people for being a MovesetClone of Mario and [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin literally being just Mario as a doctor]], while others like him for having different properties in his attacks that make him distinct from Mario. When he returned in ''[=U/3DS=]'', he was hated for getting his own slot again instead of being an alternate costume for Mario, while others welcome him for bringing back Mario's old fighting style from ''Melee''.
* '''Palutena''' is a very strong example. She's loved for being an [[{{Moe}} endearing]] and {{troll}}ish sexy meme, she was a popular newcomer choice pre-release, and many people enjoy her gimmick of having 12 unique custom moves. However, she is also hated for adding to the game's "Sakurai bias" (especially with her being the only non-Mii character besides [[WallOfWeapons Mega Man]] with the custom move gimmick), for being a relatively poor character when customs are turned off, and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking for being a cute anime woman]]. Ultimate seems to have fixed this by streamlining her moveset and presumably combining her customs into said moveset.[[note]] One of her Custom Moves, Explosive Flame, is now her side special attack, while her down special can now function as both Counter and Reflect Barrier, her previous side special.
* Surprisingly averted and sometimes invoked with the '''Koopalings''', who are {{Ensemble Darkhorse}}s in the ''Mario'' series. Many fans welcomed them when they were revealed as alternate colors of Bowser Jr. as opposed to seven different characters, thus putting the Koopalings and Bowser Jr. in one character slot, as the Koopalings being separate characters was a complaint in ''VideoGame/MarioKart8''. However, some other people complain that it's just a way to add more representatives to the already-overrepresented ''Mario'' series. '''Bowser Jr.''' fans, meanwhile, complain that they've become a SpotlightStealingSquad, only getting in because of their popularity because they don't have enough characterization to have been their own character.
* '''VideoGame/DuckHunt''' since the reveal. Some are happy that he is in [[CatharsisFactor so they can finally beat that dog]] or think he's a funny troll character with a pretty decent moveset with a shout-out to ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie''. Others hate him because he's one of the most famous [[TheScrappy Scrappies]] in video game history and the troll factor involved with including him.
* Surprisingly, a heated debate has emerged amongst certain Smash fans over whether Pichu or Dark Pit is the bigger scrappy - Pichu's a complete {{joke|Character}} by constantly hurting itself, but defenders will point out that unlike Dark Pit, Pichu at least ''has'' a gimmick to differentiate itself from Pikachu.
* '''[[VideoGame/RoboticOperatingBuddy R.O.B.]]''' is no stranger to debate ever since his debut in ''Brawl''. Some enjoy him for being such an UnexpectedCharacter and being a fun CallBack to an obscure piece of Nintendo history, some argue that while he isn't a bad character per se, he has no real gimmick or interesting move-set and thus doesn't bring anything unique to the table, and some claim that he's a wasted character whose only appeal is pointless nostalgia that only the most diehard of Nintendo fanboys will appreciate.
'''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Cloud]]''': His inclusion in [=U/3DS=] has reignited some of those flames, since many assumed that his relative unpopularity would make him an obvious choice for being cut from the final roster.
* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Charizard]]''' was one of these for a while. As the fiery dragon is one of the most popular Pokémon of all, it has many fans who are happy to see it in the fourth game and feel that it should have been in ''Smash'' since the early days. However, just as in ''Pokémon'', there are fans who dislike its prominence over the Squirtle and Ivysaur lines and the fact that it more or less replaced Pokémon Trainer as a whole and its adding to the alleged Generation I "bias". It also suffers from being a TierInducedScrappy; ''Smash'' fans pass it over due to its awkward and laggy moveset that, similar to Ganondorf, doesn't make Charizard seem like a very formidable or awe-inspiring foe. However, after Mewtwo was released as DLC and Charizard received {{Balance Buff}}s to make it a more respectable character, it rose out of this territory and became a generally liked and accepted character; in hindsight, fans believe that Charizard was a base-breaking character for its awkward implementation in ''Brawl'', for the TierInducedScrappy status it held for a time, and for not being Mewtwo.
* '''Pokémon Trainer''', who, like Jigglypuff, has somewhat of a FandomRivalry with fans of Charizard as a solo character. Some people want him to return along with Ivysaur and Squirtle and feel that he was one of the most unique ''Pokémon'' characters in the series. Others hated his stamina, forced switching and type effectiveness mechanics, and felt that each of his three Pokémon felt rather halfhearted compared to the standard characters.
* '''Dark Pit''': Fans argue whether or not he is a good idea for a clone, a waste of a character slot, whether he could have been more original or not, that he would have been fine as an alt, perceived stealing of a roster spot from fan-favorites (even though this is not the case), or that his similiarity to Pit in all but personality makes him a perfect character to elevate to clone status. There's almost no opinions in-between.
* '''[[GuestFighter Third-party characters]] in general''' can be this for Creator/{{Nintendo}} purists. While some like seeing some of the major icons in the industry in the same game with characters like Mario and have felt Nintendo almost has been doing them more justice than even their own parent companies have, there are also others who feel that since the series started out as a game that brought in major Nintendo characters to do battle with each other and was a celebration of their various franchises think that the game should only consist of content that is strictly owned by Nintendo.
** '''Snake''' had become a hot topic as the fourth installment drew closer to launch, between people who wanted him back and those that felt he didn't stand a chance. Snake's detractors would cite that ''VideoGame/MetalGear'' as a whole is more at home on the UsefulNotes/PlayStation family, with the [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolidVThePhantomPain latest]] [[VideoGame/MetalGearRisingRevengeance games]] at the time being released on every platform BUT the Wii U. Ports aside, the last original game in the series to grace a Nintendo platform was ''Twin Snakes'', a remake of the first ''Metal Gear Solid''. Every game in the series since ''Snake Eater'' would always start either just on a Sony platform or as a multiplatform on everything but the Wii U, and thus people consider Snake to be "irrelevant" to Nintendo. Beyond that, it's been cited that he's very out of place compared to the lighthearted and stylized characters that make up the rest of the roster, and that Keifer Sutherland would most likely be cast as his VA instead of David Hayter. His supporters, on the other hand, would point out that every ''Metal Gear'' to grace a Nintendo platform is a sign of the aforementioned relevance (including non-canon titles from over a decade ago like ''[[VideoGame/MetalGearGhostBabel Ghost Babel]]''), and that it would be a mistake to cut any character with a unique moveset.
** After the initial wave of hype from his inclusion in ''Brawl'', Sonic has devolved into this. '''Sonic''' suffers in ''[=SSB4=]'' for being a high-tier TierInducedScrappy and for the poor reputation of [[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog his home series]], with many people citing him as their least-favorite third-party character. Along with this, while many people are happy about his inclusion, some ''Sonic'' fans themselves are not quite so happy about it. Due to the UsefulNotes/ConsoleWars between SEGA and Nintendo, there is a vocal minority of Sonic fans who have a grudge against Nintendo and see Sonic being in a Smash Bros. game -- that is, a representation of Nintendo and its history -- as an insult. There is another group who don't mind Sonic being playable in the Smash Bros. series but take a lot of pride in Sonic and Mario being rivals; they are not happy until Mario cameos as a playable character in a SEGA ensemble game. Both groups view Sonic's inclusion in the Smash Bros. games as a degradation of the character they love so much. Additionally, some fans are happy with his inclusion but think his moveset is too generic/boring (two of his specials are spin dashes, and Mega Man's and Pac-Man's up-specials are similar to his.).
** Depending on the fan, '''VideoGame/PacMan''' is either a fantastic addition to the roster with a great moveset who represents a milestone of gaming history, a boring character with a generic design who doesn't bring much to the table, [[TakeAThirdOption or both]]. Generally, older fans who were able to experience Pac-Man's success first hand are the ones who appreciate his inclusion more, and the character has even been known to attract older adults to ''Smash''. Some fans who supported more "unique" Namco characters, such as [[VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia Lloyd Irving]], [[VideoGame/{{Tekken}} Heihachi Mishima]], or [[VideoGame/SoulSeries Nightmare]], find Pac-Man to be a bit too generic for their liking -- although the later addition of Ryu and Cloud to the roster helped calm fears that only the "safest" and most "mainstream" mascot characters would be chosen for third-parties, as explained below.
** '''Cloud''' stands as one of the most controversial third-party characters to ever be playable in the series. ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' is one of the most famous Eastern [=RPGs=] in the world, and Cloud is its most popular character; however, he was an UnexpectedCharacter of the highest degree due to his tenuous ties to Nintendo.[[note]]Cloud's only appearances on Nintendo consoles were in some ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' games as a very minor character and ''VideoGame/TheatrhythmFinalFantasy'', a WidgetSeries spin-off, as well as an unlockable costume in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyExplorers''.[[/note]] As such, Cloud's
announcement was met with a huge HolyShitQuotient reaction, and he became a very popular character to download and play as for the sheer RuleOfCool factor in pitting him against Nintendo's greatest -- especially his longtime unofficial rival Link. However, Cloud's inclusion was also met with some backlash, not only due to his weak ties to Nintendo, but also due to the HypeBacklash that he suffers from as well as his home game ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII''; some even find However Cloud's addition was also found to be insulting, insulting for many, because instead of a character from one of the ''Final Fantasy'' games that were on Nintendo consoles, ''Smash'' gets a character from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', the game that marked the point where ''Final Fantasy'' became more associated with Sony than Nintendo. Debates extended to whether a generic class or creature such as Black Mage or Moogle[[note]]the previous go-to choices for ''Final Fantasy'' characters in ''Smash''[[/note]] would have been more suitable than Cloud,[[note]]these debates were more heated prior to Cloud's announcement, as his popularity in ''Smash'' made Black Mage Nintendo.

'''[[BrokenBase General]]'''
* '''[[SpotlightStealingCrossover Perceived Over-representation]]''': Famously, ''Franchise/SuperMarioBros'', ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'',
and similar character requests fall out of favor to the point of becoming SnarkBait in hindsight,[[/note]] whether a similar "named" ''Final Fantasy'' character such as [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI Terra Branford]] would also have been preferable as a compromise,[[note]]an issue addressed by Sakurai himself, where he considered both Terra and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyV Bartz]] but ultimately decided that Cloud should make the cut,[[/note]] and/or whether Cloud should have been in ''VideoGame/PlayStationAllStarsBattleRoyale'' instead, a game where Square Enix had no representation. And then there's people who just dislike Cloud being [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking yet another sword-wielder and/or anime-like fighter in the roster]] (particularly from supporters of Western-styled characters such as [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry King K. Rool]]), especially since Cloud is one of the most iconic anime-styled swordsmen in all of gaming and has a fanbase that overlaps greatly with the anime fandom. Finally, just like with Bayonetta, Cloud's TierInducedScrappy status is highly contested, with some fans supporting his top-tier ranking due to his "hype factor" as a character and others disliking it due to his nature as paid DLC and being the most "anti-Nintendo" character on the roster.
** '''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}''' became a BaseBreakingCharacter the second she was revealed. On one hand, you have the fans who are happy to see her, citing her unique combo-heavy moveset and snarky personality as factors. She in fact got in due to her high ranking in the Fighter Ballot[[note]]Announced as #1 in Europe, in the Top 5 in the US among "realizable" and "negotiable" characters and overall ranking high worldwide[[/note]], at least among realizable characters. However, some fans believe that she wasn't a "worthy" choice (especially compared to other popular contenders), leading to accusations of vote rigging or outright lying. This crowd will often cite polls on other websites, such as Website/{{Reddit}}, which showed characters such as K. Rool, VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Banjo & Kazooie]], etc. as ballot leaders, seemingly to say that [[SilentMajority almost nobody could've voted for her]], which only leads to further arguments that [[FanMyopia such polls don't represent the entire fandom]]. In addition, there are also those who detest Bayonetta's inclusion due to their belief that she doesn't really "fit" in Smash Bros, being significantly more violent (particularly her [[NightmareFuel nightmarish]] Final Smash) and sexualized than any other character on the roster. There are also fans who are fine or even thrilled with Bayonetta being chosen from the ballot, but feel disappointed that she's the only such character chosen. Her status as the alleged best character in the game (being the top-ranked character on the tier list twice in a row) has intensified this, with some fans being proud that such a hype-worthy and canonically extremely powerful GuestFighter has earned such a placement, and others complaining about Bayonetta being "pay-to-win" due to her status as a DLC character, and overshadowing all of the first-party Nintendo characters on the roster aside from [[BewareTheSillyOnes Diddy Kong]].
*** The release of Patch 1.1.6 which included solely a heavy {{Nerf}} towards Bayonetta (and ''only'' Bayonetta). Many fans of the competitive community are celebrating since prior to this, Bayonetta was considered hands down the most broken character in Smash ever (so much so that "0-to-death combo" became a Bayonetta meme). Others, however, argue there was nothing wrong with the character in the first place (especially for casual play), and the patch was only introduced to appease the competitive side of the Smash fandom who refused to learn how to play against a character like Bayonetta, instead just calling the character 'broken' because she was new and different.
* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemFates Corrin]]''', as a sixth
''Franchise/FireEmblem'' character added to the game after a ton of hype buildup over the final DLC characters, has have all been one of the most divisive characters in the entire series.
** While a good number of folks were excited to see them, and they have a very impressive and creative moveset based around turning into a dragon, many others were upset over there being yet another ''Fire Emblem'' character in ''Smash'' (see the over-representation section below), or that Corrin's addition was just a cheap way to advertise their own game ([[BrokenBase/FireEmblemFates itself a HUGELY divisive entry right down to Corrin themselves]]), especially since his announcement came long after an interview in which Sakurai promised the rest of the DLC would be "pure fanservice". On the flip-side, many Corrin fans have pointed out that what Sakurai means by "fanservice" is completely different from the fans' interpretation, and that it's the haters' faults for trying to push their expectations onto Sakurai. When ''Fates'' was finally released in the West, it became a massive success, suggesting (along
hit with Sakurai himself being aware of the ''Fire Emblem'' overrepresentation problem) that Nintendo knew exactly what they were doing by putting Corrin in the game.
** Because Corrin became the poster child for ''Fire Emblem'' overrepresentation in ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'', the franchise's elevation to [[CashCowFranchise cash cow]] via ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' has allowed some people to reassess their opinion on Corrin. Some people argue that Corrin has become one of the most iconic characters in the series, as the main character of its second best-selling title, and that their place in ''Smash'' has become more justified over time and in hindsight especially due to their unique NinjaPirateZombieRobot moveset that easily attracts new fans. Others argue that, for all of its newfound success, ''Fire Emblem'' had no need to hijack ''Smash'' and its hype to get to that point, that Corrin is just as unwanted and unnecessary as ever, and that even with ''Heroes'' and its success, Corrin is
a BaseBreakingCharacter in their ''native'' game and it would have been wiser to add a more universally-liked ''FE'' character (such as Tiki or [[VideoGame/FireEmblemBlazingSword Lyndis]]) who (could have potentially) ended up being given just as much exposure.
** There's also the debate of Roy vs Corrin, with arguments stemming from discontent over Fire Emblem having two DLC characters. Thus debates began over who deserved to have the "slot" more. Roy, who is still a semi-clone of Marth, but starred in [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Binding Blade]] which had very solid sales in Japan (which helped the franchise recover after the series' creator's departure), has decent gaming history and was a previous Smash fighter but is also a divisive character in Smash and with being hands-down the most divisive lord in the [[AmericansHateTingle Western FE fandom]]. Or Corrin, who has an awesome looking dragon-morphing mechanic, [[ChainsawGood a magical chainsaw sword]], as well as possessing very different and unique moves compared to other ''Fire Emblem'' entries and comes from a game on track to become the most successful ''Fire Emblem'' title of all time (but is also fairly divisive), but doesn't have much game history yet and thus doesn't deserve to be in a fighting game of "Video Game All-Stars" because of it. On the other hand, [[TakeAThirdOption many fans]] are fine with having ''both'' characters, feeling this debate is rather pointless. Occasionally Lucina is brought into the debate despite not being a DLC character, although not nearly as frequently or fervently due to being a moveset clone added late into the games development (along with Dark Pit and Dr. Mario) as a bonus character with no impact on any choices for the roster.
* '''Waluigi'''. Being an EnsembleDarkhorse in his home series, people naturally wanted him as a fighter, and many were disappointed when it turned out he was still an Assist Trophy in ''Ultimate''. The reactions are divided into three camps: those that are okay with it due to his lack of proper importance, those that are disappointed that he didn't get in but were satisfied nonetheless, and those who went so crazy about Waluigi's absence from the roster that the [[{{Tagline}} "Everyone is here!" tagline]] means nothing to them if Waluigi isn't included (despite the fact that it was referring to every veteran fighter coming back). Some have even taken to [[https://mobile.twitter.com/wonderhavoc/status/1008787668824555521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%231008787668824555521 harassing Masahiro Sakurai with memes on social media]]. Some see it as justice for Waluigi not getting in, while others are quick to call these people out on their behavior, and some people have turned their back on the man in purple.
* '''[[DownloadableContent DLC Costumes]] for Mii Fighters'''. On one hand, they're a fun addition and an easy way to include references to characters that might not have a chance to fully be implemented into Smash Bros, like [[VideoGame/{{Tekken}} Heihachi Mishima]], who was considered as a full fighter for Smash, but coming up with an appropriate moveset that was true to the character was too difficult, so he became a Mii costume instead. They might even be promoted to a full fighter in a future Smash game (provided that there is one). On the other hand, having a Mii costume instead of the actual character could be considered a slap in the face for said character's fans (like [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry King K. Rool]], the [[VideoGame/{{Splatoon}} Inklings]][[note]]They were promoted to Playable Characters in Ulitmate, quelling the debate on this character[[/note]] , and [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]], three of the most requested characters in the Smash Ballot).
* '''Assist Trophies'''. The idea for some people is novel due to it being an good way to get lesser-known Nintendo characters an opportunity to still have an active role during fights, but they have also drawn mediocre to negative reception from a handful of fans perceiving it as a lazy way to not make certain characters playable. This is commonly aimed at characters that either have popularity or gameplay potential that fans feel like being an Assist Trophy would not do justice, examples including Waluigi, Lyn, Isaac, Krystal, Dillon, and Takamaru. ''Ultimate'' makes things more complicated by introducing the concept of third parties from other franchises also joining as Assist Trophies, like Bomberman. Either this is a good idea to get less popular or unfeasible third party characters included, or just a kick in the face due to third parties being already hard to get in to begin with. Not helping is the infamous CasualCompetitiveConflict the Smash series is known for, so there's a real possibility you'll never get to see these Assist Trophies in action anyway, defeating the intention altogether.
* In terms of character choices, there's '''the divide between "cartoony" characters and "realistic" ones''', as depicted in [[http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=101314 this]] ''Webcomic/AwkwardZombie'' comic. In general, the ''Mario'' franchise's importance and prominence within Nintendo and ''Smash'', as well as ''[=3DS/Wii U=][='s=]'' pre-DLC lineup of third-party characters that were all {{Alternate Company Equivalent}}s of Mario, causes some people to lean towards "cartoony" characters as more suitable candidates for ''Smash'' (especially those who have been in prior crossovers with Mario). Other fans note that ''Smash''[='s=] roster is very diverse and cartoonishness or realism has no bearing on how suitable a character is for the game, and that "realistic" characters often end up more popular with players than "cartoony" ones, especially in the West. A very prominent example was with the series' possible ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' representation; many fans believed that the most suitable and "logical" choice of character would be a generic Black Mage or Moogle, both of which had appeared in ''Mario'' sports games, but in the end, [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Cloud Strife]], a more realistic anime-styled swordsman and the most popular character in the series, was chosen. Not helping matters is that there is a minor FandomRivalry between fans of the "cartoonish" and "realistic" styles, with fans of the former describing the latter as "too anime for Nintendo" and "weeby", and fans of the latter describing the former as "silly" and "kiddy".
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Use of Source Material]]
A lot of the time, fans agree that iconic elements ''should'' be in the game, but the way they are portrayed becomes divisive. Generally, fans debate on whether these elements are used in a way which is "faithful" to the source material.

[[AC:Movesets]]
* '''Ganondorf''''s moveset in ''Smash'' is by far the most controversial in the series, due to the discrepancy from his canon portrayal as a sword or trident-wielding sorcerer who fires magic from a distance, and for being a clone of the unrelated Captain Falcon. Many wish that his moveset would change to a more series-faithful depiction involving his iconic use of weapons and magic blasts, use this as an argument for Sakurai being biased against the ''Zelda'' series, and claim that Sakurai intentionally trolls his fans with things such as Ganondorf's sword taunt and Warlock Blade being a one-off optional move. These fans often point to ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriors'', which portrays him with dual greatswords, as an example of what Ganondorf ''should'' be like in ''Smash''. The fact that Bowser, Pit and even other ''Zelda'' characters such as Link and Sheik got moveset revamps that usually reflected their subsequent games was seen as a low blow by many of these fans. Some of these fans tend to want to give his moveset to ''F-Zero'' villain Black Shadow, who has the same body type as Ganondorf and whose connection to F-Zero would better justify a semi-cloned moveset to Falcon; often justifying it by pointing out that Mario's sorely missed Tornado move was given to Dr. Mario in ''For 3DS[=/=]Wii U''. Others argue that his moveset doesn't need an overhaul, as he is already portrayed as powerful and dominating as in his home series; pointing out that Ganondorf has used several hand-to-hand moves throughout the series,[[note]]He uses a GroundPunch in ''Ocarina of Time'', punches Link several times in a cutscene in ''Wind Waker'', and kicks and elbows in his boss fight in ''Twilight Princess'', to name a few[[/note]] that using him with his optimal custom moves in ''[=SSB4=]''[[note]]usually Warlock Blade (to let him use his sword), Dark Fists (to reflect his surprising jumping abilities), and Wizard's Dropkick (which is superficially similar to a move he had in ''Twilight Princess'' where he would hop out of the way and retaliate)[[/note]] lets him be even more faithful to his home series, and most importantly, his moveset is just too fun to use to be removed or be shunted off to lesser-known character like Black Shadow. In fact, there are a sizable number of fans who want him to be portrayed as a brawler in a ''Zelda'' game to reconcile his ''Smash'' moveset. The fact that he was a bottom-tier character in ''Brawl'' and is still generally considered low-tier in ''[=SSB4=]'' in both games heightens the debate even more; it says something when ''Smash'' Ganondorf is considered a MemeticBadass ''and'' a MemeticLoser by different parts of the fandom.
* '''Wario''''s own moveset is the second most divisive in the series after Ganondorf's. Many of Wario's fans are annoyed that he draws inspiration almost entirely from the ''VideoGame/WarioWare'' games, where Wario is entirely a noncombatant, instead of the ''VideoGame/WarioLand'' series and other ''Wario'' platformers, where Wario is a combatant. The fact he uses choppy animation in the style of the former, and that many of his moves aren't really in [=WarioWare=] either doesn't help matters. The removal of Wario's trademark shoulder bash, his forward Smash in ''Brawl'', for a punching attack in ''4'' was taken as a deep cut by several ''Wario Land'' fans, as his moveset in ''Smash Bros. 4'' no longer references the ''Wario Land'' series. Other fans are fine with his portrayal, pointing out that with Wario's portrayal as a [[LightningBruiser strong and swift]] [[CloseRangeCombatant brawler]] and the general wackiness of his moves and animations, Wario still captures the spirit of the whole ''VideoGame/{{Wario}}'' series, including ''VideoGame/WarioLand''. It's also pointed out that the Chomp is justified because of Wario's garlic-eating habits, while the Wario Waft is also justified due to Wario being consistently portrayed as a FatSlob across the series.
* '''Pac-Man''' has gotten complaints for not representing his franchise outside of the arcade era, many of which had wished the ''VideoGame/PacManWorld'' series had been looked at for inspiration for his moveset, stage and music as it was what made a lot of people want the character in since the Brawl days to begin with. Along with this, The idea to represent Pac-Land has gotten a lot of flack (more so for being one of the most hated stages in Smash history) and argue that he should have just stuck to representing the arcade games or the world games (fans really disagree with only representing the arcade era),. Others argue Pac-Land was a great choice despite being obscure as the game came out before the original Super Mario and being the main inspiration for that game's creation.
* As of ''For 3DS[=/=]Wii U'', '''Samus''''s moveset has grown divisive. Said game introduced a few characters making much more extensive use of projectiles for both special moves and normal moves (Mega Man, Mii Gunner, and to a lesser extent Villager). Meanwhile, Samus's own moveset, which has remained generally consistent since ''64'', only uses projectiles for her specials while using hand-to-hand attacks for everything else. Similar to Ganondorf, many wish Samus got a moveset revamp that allows her to use projectiles in her normal moveset, as Samus almost entirely fights with her gun in her [[VideoGame/{{Metroid}} home series]] and that it would be unfair for her to not have heavier projectile use when characters such as Mega Man do. Others think, since Samus already has four specials taken from her games, she is already very faithful and doesn't need anything else. Heightening the debate is, again, her tier placement; she is considered a bottom-tier character thanks to her poor melee options and over-reliance on long-range projectiles. Many believe that giving Samus projectile normals would make her a much more viable character as well as help differentiate her from her higher-tier and more melee-focused Zero Suit form.
* '''Charizard''' and '''Mewtwo''' both saw these sorts of complaints about their movesets, mostly for TierInducedScrappy reasons. In Charizard's case, it was frequently lambasted for being a horrible character in ''Brawl'' and early versions of ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', with significant criticism towards the fact that a Pokémon known for its flight abilities has very poor aerial mobility, and feeling overall like a heavyweight variation on Bowser rather than the {{Acrofatic}} GiantFlyer that it is frequently depicted as. While opinions on Charizard's viability greatly improved, it still sees complaints of this sort from time to time. Meanwhile, other players think that Charizard's moveset is fine, and is a good representation of the character for depicting its power and imposing nature. Mewtwo was in a very similar boat, but to an even greater degree because it is a very powerful and heavy Legendary Pokémon and was depicted as one of the lightest, most ineffectual characters in the game that overused weak melee attacks instead of the PsychicPowers and special attacks that it was known for; however, these complaints died down once Mewtwo was buffed to become a top-tier character in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''.

[[AC:Other]]
* Some fans don't like how Bowser, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong have "realistic" voices instead of their human-provided voices from their home games. In Bowser's and Donkey Kong's case, this is oddly ''despite'' the fact
bat saying that they have occasionally been depicted with realistic voices in the ''Mario'' series, such as in ''VideoGame/MarioKart64'' (which one of Bowser's roars is taken from) and, for Bowser, ''VideoGame/NewSuperMarioBros1'' (complete with a hunched-over posture similar to his depiction in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''). Others find their current voices in their home series {{Narm}}y and find the "realistic" voices refreshing. Oddly enough, Charizard suffers from the opposite problem: while it has more emotional, human-voiced roars, it still has a more feral, hunched-over stance than in its home series, which makes it move and attack similarly to Bowser in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''.
* Marth, Roy and Cloud all speak Japanese in non-Japanese versions of ''Smash''. In Marth's and Roy's cases, while previously the justification was neither had ever made an international appearance besides the obscure ''Fire Emblem'' OVA (in which Marth received an English voice actor), a remake of [[VideoGame/FireEmblemAkaneia Marth's game]] and ''Awakening'' DLC with both characters already got international releases long before the fourth game was even planned. Some people say it's tradition that they speak Japanese in ''Smash Bros.'', and changing their voices to English will elicit cries of TheyChangedItNowItSucks. Detractors say that this shows that ''Smash Bros.'' falls
too much into the GrandfatherClause and NostalgiaFilter tropes, especially after Marth was given an official English voice in ''VideoGame/CodenameSTEAM''. Cloud's case is even more controversial in that he's had an official English voice actor (Steve Burton) for a long time. Some fans take issue focus on them, with [[NoDubForYou Cloud's lack of English voice acting]],[[note]]Many blame it on laziness, when in fact most signs point to Steve Burton (a union actor) being unable to work on ''Smash'' (a non-union project)[[/note]], while other fans don't mind and actually [[SubbingVersusDubbing preferred Cloud's Japanese voice from the beginning]], with Creator/TakahiroSakurai's performance having been praised by many fans over Burton's ever since ''Anime/FinalFantasyVIIAdventChildren'' in 2005.
* The ongoing debate over the ''VideoGame/DuckHunt'' character's name. Ever since ''Melee'', most of the fandom supporting the inclusion of Duck Hunt Dog in a future ''Smash Bros.'' title have referred to the character by that name, culminating to his inclusion
franchises such as a character in the fanmade ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosCrusade'' under the name "Duck Hunt Dog." When ''Smash 3DS'' gave the character the same name as his original game (the justification being that the dog is teamed up with a duck) as shown in the leaked pictures, the base started to break. Then after the character was officially revealed in a live stream of the Japanese version of ''Smash 3DS'', people started lambasting others who continued to call the character "Duck Hunt Dog," and should be "rightfully" called "Duck Hunt." Things got even worse when the European versions showed the character's name as "Duck Hunt ''Duo''", so now we have Europeans arguing with the rest of the world what the character should be called. Some people prefer to continue using the name "Duck Hunt Dog" for the character, while "Duck Hunt (Duo)" supporters scream at those people for being "wrong." Let's not even get into the whole [[UrbanLegendOfZelda Mr. Peepers]] subject...
* The ''Zelda'' fanbase's own Broken Base over Sheik's biological sex carries over here. To sum up, ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' introduced Sheik as a SweetPollyOliver disguise of Zelda's, but since AWizardDidIt some fans believe this disguise extended to a magically-induced GenderBender. The fact that Sheik's design in the fourth game backtracks ever so slightly from her more womanly-looking features in ''Brawl'' (despite retaining a large basis in her ''Brawl'' appearance) and [[DecompositeCharacter Sheik is split off from Zelda this time around]] has the "Sheik is male" camp taking up arms yet again. There are also some fans that prefer to treat Sheik and Zelda as completely separate people, who are taking advantage of the character split to promote their position to the irritation of those who stick with the idea that they're two identities for one person. Sheik's exaggerated expressions in the fourth game, compared to Zelda's, are not helping her case here either. For their part, Nintendo has been consistent ever since the reveal that Sheik is nothing more than a disguise: ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' referred to Sheik using female pronouns, ''Melee''[='s=] trophy for her stated that Zelda uses magic to change her clothing and eye color, and every game since the original ''[=OoT=]'' (including the 3DS remake) [[ArtEvolution made her femininity more obvious]]. This also seems to carry over to the Nintendo Switch game, since this time around, Sheik's design is now based on ''Breath of the Wild'', despite not even appearing in that game [[note]]her ''Twilight Princess''-based appearance at least had [[DevelopmentGag some justification]]; that and ''TP'' Zelda still being present and as her primary counterpart[[/note]], while Zelda takes her design from ''A Link Between Worlds'', which brings up the question: Without Zelda from ''BOTW'' appearing in this game [[note]]with WordOfGod explaining that they passed her over because "she is more into researching than fighting"[[/note]], [[FridgeLogic what is Sheik supposed to be now]]?
* ''VideoGame/MetroidOtherM'' has been extremely controversial, and that controversy has spilled over into ''Smash Bros.'' since most of the
''Franchise/{{Metroid}}'' content in ''Wii U/3DS'' is based on that game specifically.
** While both versions of Samus (regular
and Zero Suit) use designs that are largely based on ''Other M'', they keep their characterization from previous ''Smash'' games rather than changing them to fit the new entry[[note]]including Zero Suit Samus still using Alesia Glidewell's [[TheStoic stoic]] ''Brawl'' voice clips rather than being voiced by Jessica Martin like in ''Other M''[[/note]], and [[CompositeCharacter incorporate elements of their older designs]] rather than using direct ports of their ''Other M'' ones. Among those who took issue with ''Other M'', some fans are glad that Samus is still her old self despite the ''Other M'' influence and see it as an AuthorsSavingThrow, while others are still dissatisfied towards all the ''Other M'' representation in the game and believe that Nintendo is [[AdoredByTheNetwork still trying to push the game]] [[MagnumOpusDissonance after its failure]], particularly to people unfamiliar with the ''Metroid'' franchise.[[note]]and possibly using Samus' older, more well-received characterization to [[NeverTrustATrailer dupe them]][[/note]]
** Zero Suit Samus in particular has drawn fire for being gratuitous {{fanservice}}. Samus is rarely shown wearing the Zero Suit in her own games (barring a stealth section in ''Zero Mission'', she's always armored during gameplay), yet in ''Smash'' ZSS is a separate character that wears the skintight suit full-time. ''Other M'' in particular exacerbated the problem since Samus' Zero Suit scenes were ones where she was either reduced to eye candy, being shown especially weak and fragile, or both. Her alternate costumes don't help (despite [[http://i.imgur.com/CBkzGTw.png being insisted upon]] by ZSS's ''female'' designer); while they weren't taken from ''Other M'' (they came from [[http://i.imgur.com/EkYtzy8.jpg the]] [[http://i.imgur.com/eGlA8xI.png endings]] of the GBA games instead), they're still [[http://i.imgur.com/lZgGKGT.png quite skimpy.]]
** ''Other M'' added high heels to the Zero Suit for no apparent reason other than the fanservice, and ''Smash 4'' sparked debate when it revealed that ZSS's design was updated to include (heavily altered versions of) them. While ''Smash''[='s=] change into ''jet'' heels has been well-received by some, others think the heels should've been removed entirely in favor of a more practical design, like jet boots. Both sides at least agree it's a step up from ''Other M''[='s=] plain high heels.
* Mega Man's design [[http://i.imgur.com/WGqC4PX.jpg being based mainly on his sprites]] has attracted some criticism, even more so considering he's the only character whose model is largely based off of them. It makes him look [[https://www.flickr.com/photos/48280274@N02/13729683614/in/set-72157643678092364 for the most part]] emotionless, despite the fact he appears lankier and more expressive in cutscenes and official artwork. With the E3 and Best Buy demos, however, many have noted that Mega Man is much more expressive. Many also are divided against the inclusion of the Mega Man from ''[[Franchise/MegaManLegends Legends]]''.
* The ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' content raises these kinds of debates:
** Because the ''Anime/{{Pokemon}}'' anime developed a notable BrokenBase of older fans some time between the releases of ''Brawl'' and ''Smash 4'', the inclusion of elements from the anime (such as PokemonSpeak) in ''Smash'' developed a BrokenBase as well. Many people tolerate and/or enjoy the anime elements due to the GrandfatherClause, [[NostalgiaFilter nostalgia]], and its popular portrayals of certain species, particularly Mewtwo and Lucario. Others find the anime elements to be too childish and outdated for the series, and are upset that ''Smash 4'' didn't depict Pokémon the way ''Anime/PokemonOrigins'' and the ''VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2'' animated promo did[[note]]especially as those specials are more directly based on the games' universe[[/note]]. It's not uncommon to see accusations of ''Smash'' ignoring the ''Pokémon'' games[[note]]to be fair, none of the ''Pokémon'' content goes very deep into the series' lore, for the games ''or'' for the anime[[/note]], attempting to advertise the anime (due to its MerchandiseDriven nature), or pandering to the anime's target audience of [[AnimationAgeGhetto young children]] -- although there's no solid proof for any of the three. The schism continues even when the fourth installment provides more visual references to the ''Pokémon'' games than ever before[[labelnote:Examples]]Charizard's and Lucario's Mega Evolution animations are exactly the same as in ''X/Y'', all the new ''Pokémon'' stages are more accurate to their game counterparts, the iconic Substitute plushie used by Greninja is exclusive to the games, etc.[[/labelnote]] and even [[http://www.idigitaltimes.com/pok%C3%A9mon-omega-ruby-and-alpha-sapphire-greninja-distribution-event-brings-super-smash-393594 provides a Greninja cross-promotion with the games themselves]], while directly referencing the anime (especially the early seasons) in Pokémon Trainer's and Zapdos' trophies[[note]]Pokémon Trainer's mentions Ash Ketchum, juxtaposes him with Misty and Brock (best known as his original travel companions), and parodies the Indigo League theme song in the English version; Zapdos' mentions ''Anime/PokemonTheMovie2000'' in a nostalgic fashion[[/note]], ''and'' having Charizard somewhat resemble Red's Charizard from ''Anime/PokemonOrigins'' (intentionally or not) with its voice and Final Smash.[[note]]Note that many of the complaints are due to the anime's [[NeverLiveItDown poor reputation]]; despite the large number of improvements and attempts to appeal to wider audiences in the ''XY'' season (the season that Greninja would ostensibly be advertising, if at all), fans are [[AccentuateTheNegative more bound to remember the series' shortcomings]] and use them for ''Smash'' criticism.[[/note]] This largely ended when Mewtwo was revealed to once again use its voice and personality from ''Melee''[[note]]albeit [[TheOtherDarrin re-cast]][[/note]], based on the Japanese dub of ''Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie'', which came as a pleasant surprise to fans who were expecting the ReplacementScrappy Mewtwo from ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened''.
** A number of fans dislike how ''Smash'' primarily draws its ''Pokémon'' representation from [[FirstInstallmentWins Generation I]], with Pikachu and Jigglypuff returning for every game and the only non-Gen I playable {{Mon}}s being Pichu, Lucario and Greninja (with ''[=SSB4=]'' being the only installment to feature two of them). As the ''Pokémon'' fanbase is already up in arms over "Genwunners" (fans who overglorify Gen I and bash all or most later gens), quite a few fans can be touchy over Gen I representation in ''Smash'' and accuse it of overrepresenting the original 150. This is one reason why some people resent Charizard's inclusion, despite its insane popularity in the ''Pokémon'' fanbase. However, other fans believe that Gen I is represented fairly, as it's the most iconic generation of Pokémon.
** The fact that no Pokémon side games (e.g. VideoGame/PokemonRanger or VideoGame/PokemonMysteryDungeon) are represented at all, not even with trophies or music. Even the ''anime'' gets more representation, and that's not even a video game. Some say that the sidegames are unimportant and therefore don't need representation, while others find it annoying that Mario sidegames such as VideoGame/DrMario and VideoGame/PaperMario get a lot of representation while Pokémon sidegames do not.
* Various series have the perception that certain games in their franchise get favored over others, to the ire of fans of those "others". Besides ''Metroid'' favoring ''Other M'' (which came with its own baggage, explained above) and the already-stated examples for ''Wario'' and ''Pokémon'', ''Mario'' gets complaints over how the spinoffs, especially the [=RPGs=] and the ''VideoGame/MarioParty'' series, get ignored in favor of several stages based on the main series of platformers and on ''VideoGame/MarioKart'', and what presence the [=RPGs=] do have favors ''VideoGame/PaperMario'' in general and the ''very'' polarizing ''VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar'' in specific over ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi''. Heck, [=SSB4=] neglects the vast majority of Mario games released between 1996 and 2005, even the popular and massively influential ''VideoGame/SuperMario64'', which has no new trophies or music tracks (save for a DLC one which is an alternate version of a track that is already in [=SSB4=]). ''Kirby'' stages also appear to focus on the earlier '90s games that Sakurai had a role in developing and not more modern entries. Another example is that ''SSB4'', instead of the logical addition of the DSi, 3DS, or Wii U shop's theme and the 3DS or Wii U's Mii Maker theme, adds remixes of the Mii Channel and Wii Shop Channel themes alongside the originals.
* A few ''VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}}'' fans dislike Shulk's portrayal in ''Smash 4'', thinking the FountainOfMemes approach will give fans introduced to him through ''Smash'' the wrong idea about his character, while others point out almost all of his quotes are taken from his home game, and think any differences are justified by the different genres of the two games.
* The leak of ESRB video content for the 3DS version (the same one that revealed the entire character roster) showed a [[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Tharja]] trophy apparently removed from the game due to sexual content. A few fans are disappointed, with Tharja being an EnsembleDarkhorse in ''Awakening'' and the removal of her trophy being seen as a casualty of forcing an E10+ rating upon the game, due to her revealing outfit. Some pointed out the oddity of the situation considering that VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}, an even more risqué character, was later announced as ''playable'' DLC, although this may have been a consequence of DLC not being rated with the main game.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Over-Representation]]
Sometimes fans debate on whether a franchise is getting [[SpotlightStealingCrossover too much representation]] compared to others, with detractors hoping that other "underrepresented" franchises (such as
''Franchise/DonkeyKong'' or ''Franchise/{{Metroid}}'') get focus instead.
* ''Franchise/SuperMarioBros'' is by far the most represented franchise, which is understandable as it's Nintendo's flagship series and several related characters headline their own games aside
languishing from the connection to Mario. For these reasons, most a lack of content. The fans don't mind too much; but the addition of Rosalina in ''4'' caused some to think that perhaps things were going a little too far. The further addition of Bowser Jr./the Koopalings and the return of Dr. Mario can't have helped. Non-character debates include how even unpopular ''Mario'' games such as ''VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar'' and ''VideoGame/NewSuperMarioBros2'' get a lot of focus, how the ''Mario'' content is so bloated that some of it is redundant,[[note]]such as the comparatively boring [[VideoGame/MarioKart Mario Circuit]] stage from ''Brawl'' returning alongside a much more dynamic new stage of the same name based on ''VideoGame/MarioKart8''[[/note]] how ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}''[='=]s non-character content is much more limited despite being nearly as big as ''Mario'',[[note]]Although the latter might have something to do with [[ScrewedByTheLawyers rights issues]], since Nintendo only has partial control over ''Pokémon''.[[/note]] and how some fans overrate the ''Mario'' franchise's prominence and importance ''even further''[[note]]using Mario's role and aesthetic as a barometer for new character suggestions, [[UnacceptableTargets excluding the franchise]] from their own made-up "rules" on what constitutes fair franchise representation, treating ''Smash'' as a ''Mario'' spinoff series due to its name, exaggerating the gap between ''Mario'' and ''Pokémon'' despite the latter being the most successful media franchise of all time, and even working the franchise's prestige into TierInducedScrappy discussions[[/note]] which causes HypeBacklash for those not of the same mind.
* Several fans appreciate the greater quantity of ''VideoGame/KidIcarus'' content in the fourth game, courtesy of ''VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising'' (with several new items, Smash Run enemies, and Dark Pit and Palutena being playable characters), which helps it stand out more as an established franchise with Nintendo's [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros other]] [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda big]] [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} leaguers]] compared to what it was like before. However, others believe that it ''wasn't'' established as a major league franchise and that a crossover game like this with so many different
franchises are similarly vocal in play was not a good place to establish one particular franchise, arguably to at the expense of others. In essence, many feel their pleasure that this game went too far their series is receiving so much love, and point out that the reason they get so much attention in the other direction, giving the series far more spotlight first place is because they are much, much bigger than it deserves, as it has only three games to its name, with its most recent game before 2012's ''KidIcarusUprising'' being ''Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters'' from 1991. Sakurai's involvement in ''Uprising'' doesn't help, as some people see it as him showing bias toward his own game. Dark Pit also being a near-identical MovesetClone of Pit was just another drop of salt on the wound. Palutena largely considered to be among the game's lowest end of [[TierInducedScrappy Tier Induced Scrappies]] without custom specials, and the HypeBacklash for her that came with it, doesn't help matters, either. Another sticking point is Smash Run, which has more enemies from ''Kid Icarus'' than any every other franchise has; for instance, in the game and have thus "earned" their exposure.
* '''Swordfighters''': The idea that
there are 19 enemies from ''Kid Icarus'' in Smash Run, but even the ''Mario'' franchise, the very face of Nintendo, only has 14, with even other big league franchises like ''Kirby'', ''Zelda'', ''Pokémon'' each get less than 10 and put together only have a couple more than ''Kid Icarus''. Not helping matters is that over half of those enemies are considered GoddamnedBats or DemonicSpiders.
* ''VideoGame/FireEmblem'' gets complaints of being more prominent in ''Smash'' than it should be, particularly among Western players as
too many of the games weren't released in the West until characters started to appear in who fight with swords is a recurring point of mockery for a major chunk of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games. The fourth game has a particular case of this, as in addition to Marth and Ike playerbase, deriding how it added makes several characters from ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' in Robin, who has a unique playstyle among ''all'' of the characters in the game... and Lucina, who's a MovesetClone to Marth and widely considered to be an inferior [[SkillGateCharacters Skill Gate Character]]. Roy being added via DLC didn't cause too many waves due to his status as a returning veteran alongside Mewtwo and Lucas, but the series has gotten more scrutiny due to Corrin from ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'' being announced as the second to last DLC character. This gives the series a total of ''six'' characters appearing in ''Smash'' at once and pushes it to a feel similar level of representation as {{Cash Cow Franchise}}s ''Mario'', ''Zelda'', and ''Pokémon'' (every other series has three characters at most). At least prior to 2016-17, it was near-universally acknowledged that especially how the games insist on adding ''Fire Emblem'' has more characters than what makes sense for the franchise; some people are fine with this, often citing that the series, with a new universe used every 1-2 games, has way more viable characters vying for slots than any other series represented in Smash aside from Pokemon, while others are bitter about ''Fire Emblem'' being AdoredByTheNetwork. Some people in the latter camp have taken extreme views on the matter and brought Sakurai's ScapegoatCreator status to new heights[[note]]one person on [=GameFAQs=] [[SeriousBusiness even accused him of being a sociopath]] based on his ''Smash'' character choices[[/note]], which has only made things worse all around. Ironically, Sakurai stated in ''Famitsu'' that [[http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/12/masahiro_sakurai_talks_about_the_new_fighters_soon_to_be_added_to_super_smash_bros he too had concerns about overdoing it with Fire Emblem characters, but the rest of the dev team talked him into it.]] The news that [[https://mynintendonews.com/2016/04/28/fire-emblem-is-now-considered-a-major-ip-for-nintendo/ Nintendo considers Fire Emblem a major IP as of 2016]] and its continued success via games such as ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes''[[note]]generally considered Nintendo's best mobile game[[/note]] has caused defenders to argue that the allegation that sword-users when the series has a variety of weapons to choose from. The other side argues it is too minor for that a needless complaint, especially when taking into account how a similar number of characters no longer holds as much water, though detractors argue that 6 fight with their hands/feet or with guns.
* '''[[CasualCompetitiveConflict Professional Play]]''': Easily the oldest conflict in the fanbase
is still too much and that Nintendo shouldn't have used whether or not the games should be played or treated competitively. Proponents note how the uniqueness of ''Smash'' as a platform game makes for pushing the series.
* On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have the comparatively small amount of ''Franchise/DonkeyKong'' and ''Franchise/{{Metroid}}'' representation, especially the topic of King K. Rool and Ridley as possible playable characters. Some fans of these two series are vocal about this amount of representation and about new characters from, and overrepresentation of, series other than their own (especially ''Fire Emblem'' and ''Kid Icarus''). These fans claim
a competitive experience that these characters are taking up slots that would have been reserved for ''Donkey Kong'' cannot be found elsewhere, and ''Metroid'' characters, with K. Rool, Ridley and occasionally Dixie Kong constantly being brought up. Because they're {{Moveset Clone}}s, Lucina, Dark Pit and (to a lesser extent) Roy are particularly big targets for this type of criticism, as is unique character Corrin for taking up development time and the circumstances of their release and announcement. Supporters of this viewpoint claim that ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Metroid'' are two series that are very relevant to Nintendo's history and deserve more representation than other series, while opponents cite that the current level banning of representation is fine, certain in-game supplementaries (items, chaotic stages) are necessary for reducing cheesing/randomness, to ensure a more skill-driven game. Detractors state that ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Metroid'' are less popular than they seem (particularly ''Metroid'' in Japan), that there's no such thing as "roster slots", the pro-scene's existence is a major insult to Sakurai's vision for the series - a fun casual game for friends to party around with - and that other fans they are refusing to the play the game the way it was meant to be played. Accusations of elitism, {{Scrub}}-ism, and overall non-pleasantries are thrown abound, and even after Sakurai openly decided to design the games with the pro-scene in mind, it shows no signs of ever stopping.
** '''Advanced Techniques''': A core part of the division between the aforementioned groups is whether or not certain exploits/glitches - usually dubbed "Advanced Techniques" - should be used. Those in favor argue that they add new levels of depth to gameplay that can't be offered elsewhere. Those against argue that since most [=ATs=] aren't part of the game, they
shouldn't complain about extra content that ''Fire Emblem'' and ''Kid Icarus'' fans are enjoying. Some fans argue that the excessive support for ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Metroid'' may be due to the NostalgiaFilter effect, used at all, as those franchises were ''inarguably'' among Nintendo's biggest during the SNES era and the [=GameCube=] era, respectively, but that they have (allegedly) tapered off in comparison to other franchises, for various reasons.
* One debate focuses not on a ''franchise'' taking up a disproportionate
weren't part of the roster, but a certain style of character, as some feel that there are too many swordsmen. This doesn't just mean characters that use their sword game's design philosophy, and only their sword, like Marth, Ike, or Shulk, but anyone that happens to ''have'' a sword, like Link and Robin. As of thus throw the fifth game, sixteen balance out of whack. The addition of complexity has its own subset - is the 65+ characters[[note]]Link, Young Link, Marth, Lucina, Ganondorf, Roy, extra mechanical skill good for showcasing talent, or bad for increasing the skill ceiling to an unwittingly high level that most can't hope to achieve?
** '''Banning [[TierInducedScrappy/SuperSmashBros
Meta Knight, Pit, Dark Pit, Ike, Toon Link, Mii Swordfighter, Robin, Shulk, Cloud, and Corrin[[/note]] have swordplay as part of their moveset, which is a point of contention for people talking about roster additions or cuts. Swords are fairly prominent in Nintendo's [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda high]] [[VideoGame/FireEmblem fantasy]] [[VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}} franchises]], so people will often point out that their [[HeroesPreferSwords respective protagonists]] will usually get first dibs for new roster additions, so more swords should be expected. On the other hand, other people are seeing this as a reason to call for characters like [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Hector]], [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheSacredStones Ephraim]], [[Franchise/{{Castlevania}} Simon Belmont]], VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[Franchise/StarFox Krystal]], or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]] to make the jump to the roster just because they have a non-sword weapon. Heaven forbid you want to discuss how potentially different [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]], [[VideoGame/SinAndPunishment Saki]], [[VideoGame/NazoNoMurasameJo Takamaru]], or [[VideoGame/TheFrogForWhomTheBellTolls the Sablé Prince]] could be compared to anyone else, just because they use swords of some kind. This discussion is also only ever held about swords and nothing else, despite ''[=SSB4=]'' and ''Ultimate'' having more than half as many firearm-wielding characters as sword users.[[note]]Samus, Fox, Falco, Zero Suit Samus, Snake, Diddy Kong, R.O.B., Wolf, Mega Man, Mii Gunner, Bayonetta, and the Inklings[[/note]]
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Mechanics]]
* While a divide between [[CasualCompetitiveConflict casual and competitive camps]] was already starting to appear in the late days of ''Melee'', the release of
Knight]]''': The ''Brawl'' absolutely shattered competitive scene itself had its own problems with the fanbase, topic of Meta Knight. Meta Knight hopelessly outclassed every single other character in the game, causing an over-centralized meta-game involving playing Meta Knight, and trying to this day beat him. One party desperately wanted him banned, out of fear that he was making the aftershocks are still felt. Even when you get past game too stale and that viewership/entrants would die out due to his overt presence, as well as straight annoyance over how dominant he was. The other party, consisting of the specific debates such people who played him/liked him, were against it, as [[DifficultButAwesome DACUS vs wavedashing]], random tripping, he was ultimately in a boat to the removal of manual L-cancelling, and the greatly reduced emphasis on extended combos, similarly powerful ''Melee'' Fox where despite being so dominant he could still be fun to watch/play, and removing a player's main from the game would gimp too many people. The test of time reveals that the former group had the right idea, but only after the conflict became so vicious that the ''Brawl'' still have two distinct tactile/heuristic systems. In general, ''Melee'' matches are significantly faster and shorter, characters have much higher weight and falling speeds, and attacks stun enemies for longer periods of time, leading to an aggressive, combo-laden metagame. ''Brawl'' by contrast has greatly reduced gravity, and all characters can escape from hitstun in less than a quarter-second with an air dodge (which we'll get to in a second), not to mention recovering from off-stage is much more forgiving, leading to a more defensive metagame based on positioning and singular, powerful hits. With less experienced players being able to survive for much longer in ''Brawl'', the two games practically became war banners for the CasualCompetitiveConflict and their respective strawmen. ''Smash 4'' has somewhat rectified this conflict, but there are still holdouts who stick to ''Melee'' and even ''Brawl'' in favor of the new game.
* Momentum-conserving air dodge (''Brawl'' onward) vs directional air dodge (''Melee''). Supporters of the former prefer it because it is much easier to use, much more useful for its intended use, and makes approaching much easier, while the directional air dodge is nearly useless and only has wavedashing as a possible saving grace. Supporters of the latter say that the momentum-conserving air dodge is ''too'' useful for its intended use, cripples the ground game because of short-hop air dodging rendering projectiles useless, cripples {{Mighty Glacier}}s due to the ability to easily dodge their slow attacks multiple times in midair, and the directional air dodge forces more strategy in its use, as well as allowing wavedashing. This conflict was felt at its most extreme back when ''Brawl'' had a more lively
competitive scene: momentum airdodge [[ComboBreaker allowed escape from ANY combo in the game]] should the combo's victim get even thirteen frames[[note]]less than a quarter of a second[[/note]] of respite. This provably skewed ''Brawl''[='=]s metagame to be very combo-light, though whether this was a good or bad thing again depends on who you ask. Notably, momentum airdodge is no longer nearly as potent in ''4''.
* Advanced techniques in general -- unintended side-effects of the games' engines that can be exploited for some sort of advantage. The most notable would be the plethora found in ''Melee'' -- most famously wavedashing - but others such as ''Brawl''[='=]s DACUS exist. Each game has a few of its own and it's always been a sensitive issue, especially going from installment to installment as Nintendo often removes them in the following game, though the introduction of official balance patches in ''Smash 4'' has replicated the entire conflict in miniature.
** One camp (primarily comp players) supports their usage and believe that Nintendo should embrace and balance around them as official mechanics, noting their competitive usefulness as well as the fact that in some cases (such as wavedashing) the devs even knew about them but left them in. They cite similar cases such as combos in ''VideoGame/StreetFighterII'' or skiing in ''{{VideoGame/Tribes}}'' - two other GoodBadBugs that would [[AscendedGlitch go on to become official features]] and define those series' competitive scenes - and believe removal of discovered advanced techniques would cause a game to stagnate and get boring, whereas ''Melee''[='=]s metagame is still evolving as new ones are found.
** The other camp dislikes them, arguing that they're often unintuitive both in concept and execution[[note]]such as wavedashing being performed by a non-obvious button combination that requires high dexterity to pull off and that its usage is completely foreign to what airdodging is supposed to do[[/note]], which runs counter to Smash's goal of accessibility. They support Nintendo removing these "techniques" as they were not intentional in the first place and may unpredictably affect the balance of the game in the long run, citing how unrefined ''Melee''[='=]s engine actually ''is'' if its metagame is still "evolving" fifteen years later. They further argue that the removal of many techniques in later games or patches proves that even the ones that ''were'' knowingly left in wouldn't have been if the devs knew just what the implications would be, and that comp players should ''not'' take their inclusion for granted.
* Rolling in ''4'' has stirred up massive controversy due to both the increase in speed and invincibility frames of the maneuver. Supporters say that the rolling buff makes a once highly punishable mechanic actually useful (while still being punishable) and that, coupled with the increase in speed from ''Brawl'', the game has a good offense-defense balance. Detractors say that rolling is now way too effective and turns the game into a turtling match just like ''Brawl'' since they are far too hard to punish. Some say that only ''specific'' rolls need to be nerfed: some characters like Little Mac and Sonic have extremely agile rolls while others such as Rosalina and Palutena have "warp" rolls that are almost as fast while also causing them to disappear for the duration.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:[=WiiU/3DS=]]]
* Nintendo's decision to [[MultiPlatform release the fourth game on both Wii U and 3DS]] has drawn some ire from more cynical fans who saw as a shameless cash grab by attempting to get people to buy the same game twice, especially after it was announced that the 3DS version would launch several months before the Wii U version. Some were convinced that the 3DS' weaker specs would cause negative restrictions that carry over to the Wii U version, or would rather just have [[OneGameForThePriceOfTwo all the content on a single game rather than splitting it between two releases]]. The more optimistic fans felt that the multiplatform release saves them the trouble of having to buy a new system just for ''Smash'', and has led to more content being created than what would've been received for a single game. It got worse after MasahiroSakurai [[WordOfGod confirmed]] in a [[http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-addresses-ice-climbers-absence-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds-and-more-in-new-famitsu-column/ Famitsu article]] that technical limitations on the 3DS were indeed the reason behind the Ice Climbers not returning in the fourth game. Further dislike was aimed at the 3DS version after most of the features in the Wii U version were revealed, with people calling the 3DS game a waste of money or a simple beta test for the Wii U game.
* The reason many tournament players are none too pleased with the "For Glory" mode is because they feel the "NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!" meme has created a false stereotype of every tournament ever (tournaments ''can'' show more variety than the flattest, plainest stage in the game), which was then erroneously picked up by Sakurai, only furthering the caricaturization. Making matters worse, it's more than just an annoying stereotype: Final Destination is widely considered to be unfairly skewed towards projectile users in the competitive scene, which somewhat renders the entire point of "For Glory" moot.
* Due to the Omega stages, the regular stages for ''Super Smash Bros. 4'' have become wilder and crazier than ever. Most of them shift, morph, move, have stage hazards, have selective benefits for some players, are just plain huge, or a combination of the above. Among competitive players, this makes AbridgedArenaArray far more pronounced in these two games than ever before, and the lack of variety in stages they are comfortable playing in makes them very unhappy.
* The split of Zero Suit Samus and Sheik from their primary counterparts is causing a bit of this, because there's a number of players who ''actually'' liked switching forms in battle for more interesting gameplay. Special mention goes to Zelda/Sheik, whose players wished the transformation move was assigned to a new button combination, or at least to the touch screen on [[UsefulNotes/WiiU both]] [[UsefulNotes/Nintendo3DS systems]]. It got worse when it was revealed that the reason why the transformations were cut was because [[http://www.gamnesia.com/news/transformations-were-cut-from-smash-due-to-3ds-limitations the Nintendo 3DS wasn't powerful enough to handle them]] (the same reason why the Ice Climbers were cut), upsetting the "Shielda" players even more.
* [[http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/e3-2013-no-plans-for-smash-bros-dlc-tripping-removed Sakurai's initial plan to avoid adding]] DownloadableContent for the Wii U and 3DS games was either proof that Nintendo was ensuring that the game was complete and polished before it was released, or that Nintendo was making another financial mistake with online gameplay. The announcement that ''VideoGame/MarioKart8'' would be getting post-launch DLC renewed confidence that he might have changed his mind and would add DLC for the game later on, while it also irritated people who strongly dislike DLC. The differing opinions over the game's final roster only made the debate that much worse. With the advent of [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap Mewtwo's DLC announcement]], it seems it was going to be adding some DLC after all -- in Mewtwo's specific case, it's a free download '''if''' you have both the ''3DS'' and ''Wii U'' versions of the game... [[OneGameForThePriceOfTwo so, not REALLY free]]. The kicker, however, is that Nintendo [[PoorCommunicationKills didn't specify right away]] whether or not Mewtwo could be downloaded by paying if the player only had one version of the game -- making people think that getting both games was the ''only'' way to get it. This was corrected a couple of months later by confirming that Mewtwo could be purchased for one version, but during that time some of the playerbase was ''livid'' when they believed that they'd have to pay over $100 just to have one more character; the rest were just happy that DLC was confirmed and that they could play as Mewtwo again.
* Smash Run,
scene died from the 3DS version. Some people love it for featuring enemies from many of Nintendo's franchises like ''Melee''[='=]s Adventure Mode did and being challenging. Even just the fact they brought back the [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry Kremlings]] caused fangasms. Others hate it for having way too many GoddamnedBats and DemonicSpiders, the final match being completely random (and to add insult to injury, the game rarely tells you what it is), and having no way to customize matches like its inspiration, ''VideoGame/KirbyAirRide''[='=]s City Trial.[[note]]The City Trial allowed players to determine how long the matches last, how often events occurred, (including the option to turn them off), and what the final match would be.[[/note]] Despite this, some of the hate subsided when Smash Tour was revealed and was much more widely disliked; to this day, Smash Run is considered one of the advantages that the 3DS version has over the Wii U version despite the 3DS version being inferior to its Wii U counterpart overall.
* Smash Tour, from the Wii U version. When it was revealed in the "50-Fact Extravaganza" video, some were looking forward to it, and others weren't. Those excited for it saw it as a potentially fun party mode, while those not excited for it saw it as confusing and unnecessary. After the game's release, some were satisfied, and many weren't, with many of the detractors calling one of the worst modes (if not ''the'' worst) in Smash history. Many of the complaints include the mode being confusing, unfair, frustrating (especially for single players), and being based entirely around building up a good stock pool when the final deciding fight is a timed match [[note]]This means that at an extreme, if you gathered say 100 stock it would mean almost nothing, because high stock is only valuable to OTHER players as points to take from you, and a timed match requires 2 players. The moment the player below you is KO'd leaving you alone, the round ends which effectively means that it's the SECOND place that dictates how long the match is and they only have to get more [=KOs=] than you to overwrite your ninety-something lead entirely.[[/note]] and many felt that Smash Run from the 3DS version[[note]]itself a pretty polarizing mode[[/note]] should have just been in the Wii U version instead.
* Custom moves. Nearly every fan rejoiced at the revelation of this feature, as it would open up many avenues for gameplay. However, some were worried that they would only be slight tweaks to the existing specials instead of completely different moves. When this turned out to be true (for all but the Miis, Palutena and to a lesser extent, Mega Man), they complained that Sakurai did not develop a good idea to its fullest potential, as many characters had far too much potential for unique specials (Link's other tools, Mario's other power-ups, and Wario's ''VideoGame/WarioLand''/''VideoGame/WarioWorld'' moves being examples) that went ignored for their barely-different existing specials. [[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising Palutena]] getting completely different specials in particular is a sore point, as many believe that either a non-Mii shouldn't have received this feature, or that Sakurai was simply biased and lazy and only developed the full potential of custom moves for one character.
* Some people have noticed an increased emphasis on later Nintendo games (with Duck Hunt being the only real "retro" newcomer) in the fourth game and worry that this means Nintendo is exerting more ExecutiveMeddling this time around, trying to turn the game into an extension of their advertising arm and ruining its status as a MuseumGame. Other people think that this group is being overly reactionary, or that SSB was always at least partially meant to advertise and that they're just now noticing it. A third group doesn't care either way and just want to make Kirby punch Bowser in the gut.
* The 3DS version itself was initially believed to be inferior to the Wii U version in every way, was labeled as a "$40 demo", and was blamed for the exclusion of the Ice Climbers and character transformations. After the Wii U version's release, fans began criticizing some of its features such as the overly gimmicky stages, the unconventional and random Classic Mode, and Smash Tour - and then noticed that the 3DS version's equivalents didn't suffer from the same flaws. Nowadays, it's more debatable whether the 3DS version was worth it, and whether it would have been preferable to have all ''its'' stages and features in the Wii U version instead; general consensus is that it's still the inferior version, but nonetheless has its own advantages.
* ''[=SSB4=]''[='=]s more [[LighterAndSofter kid-friendly]] Everyone 10+ ESRB age rating (only in North America). While nobody is outright happy about it (possibly except for some parents) and the vast majority of fans don't mind it, a few fans have noticed that this has led the game to be [[AnimationAgeGhetto stereotyped as a "children's game"]] more than the two previous titles were, and miss the days when ''Smash'' had a more mature reputation. This factor subtly contributes to some fans' nostalgia towards ''Melee'' and, to a lesser extent, ''Brawl''; however, some argue that ''Melee'' would easily have been rated [=E10+=] if the rating had existed at the time, and that ''Brawl''[='=]s Teen rating was mostly due to the more realistic graphics and a few darker Subspace Emissary scenes. This seems to have ended after all the game's DLC characters were revealed; except for Mewtwo and possibly Lucas, most of them are from series that skew more towards older fans, particularly the third-party characters (''especially'' the M-rated VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}) despite Snake not returning. Note that [[ValuesDissonance this only applies to American fans]], as the Smash Bros series has always received a CERO "A" rating in Japan (the rough equivalent to E for Everyone), while in Europe it ''increased'' from 7+ (roughly Everyone) for ''Melee'' to 12+ (roughly Teen) for ''Brawl'' and ''[=SSB4=]''.
* The Smash Ballot caused a stir within the very reaches of the fandom itself. With the promise that we would get some fighters as DLC suggested by the fans, there was going to be an inevitable divide on Sakurai's hands. There were some people who wanted new 1st party fighters, others wanted new 3rd party fighters, more wanted some veterans back (most notably Solid Snake from Metal Gear and Wolf O'Donnell from Star Fox) and a few suggested memetic characters. With the revelation of VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} being chosen based on her high ranking in the Smash Ballot, the fan arguments and lamenting over who didn't get in flared right back up, now compounded by complaints about how Nintendo handled the ballot. Bayonetta herself was notably the ''only'' pick from the ballot, whereas the rest of the DLC characters had no involvement with it whatsoever. Not only did this mean [[ShaggyDogStory the whole thing was nothing but a giant popularity contest]], [[EndingFatigue it wasn't revealed until Bayonetta's announcement]]. People were quite upset at being kept in the dark about this rather important stipulation until the very end, and while some players agree that the other DLC characters are still diverse and fun enough as they are, most believe that Nintendo could've done better with more ballot picks instead.
* In terms of stages, the Miiverse stage. Some feel that the idea of a stage where people can make encouraging or strangely funny posts for people to see while fighting is a great idea, while others dislike the high amounts of {{GIFT}}s and [[{{Rule34}} inappropriate drawings]]. [[SoBadItsGood Other love it]] for those {{GIFT}}s and innapropriate drawings.
* While the [[FreeFallFight Umbra Clock Tower]], based on the opening cinematic from the first ''{{VideoGame/Bayonetta}}'' game, is being highly accepted as not only [[SceneryPorn visually stunning]] but celebrated as finally a tournament friendly stage in being a counter-pick (after a dry spell of almost all DLC stages being outright tournament-banned), the music selection, on the other hand, is more divisive. Some fans of the franchise were upset beloved tracks like ''Fly Me to the Moon'' and ''[[{{VideoGame/Bayonetta2}} Moon River]]'' were left out (although those had the issue of copyright to deal with) as well as ''You May Call Me Father'' and ''The Greatest Jubilee'' (which don't have copyright issues). On the other hand, the stage does have an impressive 11 tracks as it is, and some fans argue that even with the selection, every track is still AwesomeMusic.
* Similarly, [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Midgar]] caused people some grief over its music selection, or lack thereof. The number of My Music tracks available for the stage on Wii U on is literally exactly the same as on the 3DS, and that version still only has two songs (and neither of them are remixes... or "One Winged Angel"). Some fans were annoyed and think that, considering the sheer amount of AwesomeMusic the ''Franchise/{{Final Fantasy}}'' franchise has spawned, Nintendo and/or Square Enix could have done a much better job with the soundtrack than they did, while others think that the songs they ''did'' choose are still very good and fitting.
* Even Palutena's Guidance in the Wii U version is a part of this category. Many people find it pretty cute and funny, while other people think it's inferior, unfunny, or obnoxious compared to Snake's codecs in the ''Brawl'', with the specific arguments being that Snake's Codecs were funnier because ''VideoGame/MetalGear'' stars relatively normal and normally serious characters commenting on the often ridiculous, cutesy fantasy franchises Snake is sharing the game with, whereas ''VideoGame/KidIcarus'' is already a "cutesy fantasy" franchise, meaning their commentary has less effect. The other common argument is that many feel Palutena's Guidance puts more emphasis on the characters who are speaking than the characters that they're talking about. Ironically, Palutena's Guidance was a very popular idea for the game before it was officially revealed; many people argue that [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot it wasn't as well-done as it could have been]] due to the writing being inferior to that of ''VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising'' itself and due to the absence of popular, scene-stealing ''Kid Icarus'' characters such as Hades and Magnus. Above all other arguments is that many feel that the ''Kid Icarus'' franchise is already disproportionately over-represented in this game and that this is just a big example of that greater problem.
** The Guidance on Robin is a particular source of ire. The conversation has little to do with Robin and is mostly Viridi mocking Chrom for not making it into the game. Some find this funny, while others feel that it's Sakurai using the ''Kid Icarus'' cast as a mouthpiece to mock Chrom fans who wanted to see him playable. It doesn't help that Viridi claims Chrom is "too similar" to Ike and "doesn't have an Aether recovery move." Chrom actually does learn Aether in ''Awakening'', and the "too similar" line is the most hated because a Kid Icarus character, Dark Pit, is the MovesetClone with the least differences from the character he originates from. Especially in-universe it's explained Dark Pit is now working for Viridi, so she doesn't have the excuse of not knowing -- which means fans who dislike this Guidance see it as hypocritical and mean-spirited, which fits perfectly with Viridi's character, but is still cruel at a meta level.
* In a nutshell, ''Smash 4'' causes lots of BrokenBase. Do the graphics (particularly the Wii U version's) look watered-down compared to ''Brawl'' or do they look beautiful? Are both games' content considered extremely lacking or is there enough? Are the newcomers worth it or should they be replaced by other "worthy" characters? Should there be more third-party characters or not? And for that matter, should characters from controversial companies or companies with strained relationships with Nintendo, such as [[VideoGame/MetalGear Solid Snake]] and Franchise/{{Rayman}}, be part of the roster or not?
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Other]]
* ''Melee''[='=]s arcade-style Adventure Mode vs. ''[[VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary]]'' in ''Brawl''. Those who prefer ''Melee''[='=]s Adventure Mode criticize the latter for being excessively long, being cutscene-dominated, and (especially) having a completely neutral setting with locations only vaguely resembling locations from the various Nintendo games represented. Those who prefer ''The Subspace Emissary'' consider it to be an improvement, considering ''Melee''[='=]s Adventure Mode to be little more than Classic Mode with a few platforming levels and minor gimmicks, with very little substance to it otherwise. The news that there would be no Adventure Mode at all in ''4'' caused these debates to flare up again, though many would simply be happy to have one that combines the best of both worlds.
* Competitive players argue over whether Meta Knight should be banned in ''Brawl'' tournaments, though many tournament organizers as of late seem fine with simply handicapping him instead of completely banning him.
* Event Matches in general. Many people agree that ''Melee''[='=]s events are superior to the events in ''Brawl'', especially when there were unique events like Trophy Tussles. The last event in ''Melee'', where you fought against Mewtwo, Ganondorf, and Giga Bowser, is considered superior to the final events in both ''Brawl'' and ''[=SSB4=]'', where you fight against Mario and the third-party characters. ''[=SSB4=]''[='=]s final event in particular is criticized because instead of fighting them all at once, you fight them two at a time, with one replacing the other. It doesn't help that the penultimate single-player event matches in both games are the same exact event: fighting against Bowser, Ganondorf, and Dedede on Final Destination.
* The [[EmbeddedPrecursor Masterpieces]] in ''Brawl'' and ''Wii U'', which are time-limited demos of games that are available on the Virtual Console. Some think they're a great way of introducing old classics to newer generations, while others think they're a complete waste of space on the disc and/or think the time limits are too short to get a proper experience of the game. Not to mention, in ''Wii U'''s case, the lack of N64 games.
* The concept of characters as LivingToys. While a source of EpilepticTrees, the only things confirmed are Iwata [[WordOfGod stating that]] the games represent imaginary fights between toy characters (even ''VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary'' doesn't answer many questions), and that CanonWelding exists for the ''Kid Icarus'', ''Fire Emblem'' and ''Bayonetta'' characters. Some people agree with the concept and even take it further in some instances, claiming it to be similar to ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory'' or ''VideoGame/DisneyInfinity'' and treating the characters as ''literal'' animate dolls/figures. Others claim that it devalues the whole crossover/fighting concept and will point to the aforementioned CanonWelding as proof that the characters are "real" in some capacity, or [[FanonDiscontinuity even dismiss the concept of living trophies entirely]]. The debate is very similar to ''VideoGame/SuperMarioBros3'' being [[AnimatedActors confirmed to be a stage play]], albeit with less overt confirmation of the "fakeness" of the concept.
* The ''Melee'' competitive scene. ''Melee'' is the most popular ''Smash'' game to watch and play competitively, and many people enjoy both the fast-paced high-level battles and the larger-than-life personalities of popular Smashers such as [=Mew2King=] and Armada. Others (especially fans of the later games, and even ''other fighting games'') resent the ''Melee'' community and treat it (or even the game itself) with HypeBacklash, as its competitive elitism is largely responsible for the FandomRivalry and CasualCompetitiveConflict between games. Some even find competitive ''Melee'' to be SnarkBait for factors such as turning a family-friendly party game into a SeriousBusiness professional sport, overemphasizing its GoodBadBugs, rampant ComplacentGamingSyndrome reducing the game to "[[MemeticMutation no items, Fox only, Final Destination]]", relying on antiquated equipment such as CRT televisions and very specific [=GameCube=] controllers that suffer from a bug, and the "[[MassiveMultiplayerCrossover Nintendo All-Stars]]" aspect being disregarded in favor of treating ''professional players'' as the characters of the game rather than the fighters themselves. There's also the accusations of players trying to steal, blackmail, and bully the CRT from events. The general uncleanliness of the melee based has lead to a few of them being cancelled or barred from using locations ever again. And most damningly of all is that the Melee crowd refuses to use actual fighting game terminology thats been around since ''Street Fighter'' and will mock those that do.

[[/folder]]
fire.


* '''Ganondorf''''s moveset in ''Smash'' is by far the most controversial in the series, due to the discrepancy from his canon portrayal as a sword or trident-wielding sorcerer who fires magic from a distance, and for being a clone of the unrelated Captain Falcon. Many wish that his moveset would change to a more series-faithful depiction involving his iconic use of weapons and magic blasts, use this as an argument for Sakurai being biased against the ''Zelda'' series, and claim that Sakurai intentionally trolls his fans with things such as Ganondorf's sword taunt and Warlock Blade being a one-off optional move. These fans often point to ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriors'', which portrays him with dual greatswords, as an example of what Ganondorf ''should'' be like in ''Smash''. The fact that Bowser, Pit and even other ''Zelda'' characters such as Link and Sheik got moveset revamps that usually reflected their subsequent games was seen as a low blow by many of these fans. Some of these fans tend to want to give his moveset to ''F-Zero'' villain Black Shadow, who has the same body type as Ganondorf and whose connection to F-Zero would better justify a semi-cloned moveset to Falcon; often justifying it by pointing out that Mario's sorely missed Tornado move was given to Dr. Mario in ''For 3DS[=/=]Wii U''. Others argue that his moveset doesn't need an overhaul, as he is already portrayed as powerful and dominating as in his home series; pointing out that Ganondorf has used several hand-to-hand moves throughout the series,[[note]]He uses a GroundPunch in ''Ocarina of Time'', punches Link several times in a cutscene in ''Wind Waker'', and kicks and elbows in his boss fight in ''Twilight Princess'', to name a few[[/note]] that using him with his optimal custom moves in ''[=SSB4=]''[[note]]usually Warlock Blade (to let him use his sword), Dark Fists (to reflect his surprising jumping abilities), and Wizard's Dropkick (which is superficially similar to a move he had in ''Twilight Princess'' where he would hop out of the way and retaliate)[[/note]] lets him be even more faithful to his home series, and most importantly, his moveset is just too fun to use to be removed or be shunted off to lesser-known character like Black Shadow. In fact, there are a sizable number of fans who want him to be portrayed as a brawler in a ''Zelda'' game to reconcile his ''Smash'' moveset. The fact that he was a bottom-tier character in ''Brawl'' and is still generally considered low-tier in ''[=SSB4=]'' in both games heightens the debate even more; it says something when ''Smash'' Ganondorf is considered a MemeticBadass ''and'' a MemeticLoser by different parts of the fandom. ''Ultimate'' attempted to ThrowTheDogABone by changing his Smash attacks to use his sword, however, this was a controversial move itself, especially given that the attacks were ripped from Ike and Cloud's movesets rather than made from scratch, and the rest of his moveset is still based on Captain Falcon's. Some saw this as a reasonable attempt at making Ganondorf more true to the source material without completely alienating players who enjoy his current moveset. Others saw it as a half-assed compromise that fails to please either side.

to:

* '''Ganondorf''''s moveset in ''Smash'' is by far the most controversial in the series, due to the discrepancy from his canon portrayal as a sword or trident-wielding sorcerer who fires magic from a distance, and for being a clone of the unrelated Captain Falcon. Many wish that his moveset would change to a more series-faithful depiction involving his iconic use of weapons and magic blasts, use this as an argument for Sakurai being biased against the ''Zelda'' series, and claim that Sakurai intentionally trolls his fans with things such as Ganondorf's sword taunt and Warlock Blade being a one-off optional move. These fans often point to ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriors'', which portrays him with dual greatswords, as an example of what Ganondorf ''should'' be like in ''Smash''. The fact that Bowser, Pit and even other ''Zelda'' characters such as Link and Sheik got moveset revamps that usually reflected their subsequent games was seen as a low blow by many of these fans. Some of these fans tend to want to give his moveset to ''F-Zero'' villain Black Shadow, who has the same body type as Ganondorf and whose connection to F-Zero would better justify a semi-cloned moveset to Falcon; often justifying it by pointing out that Mario's sorely missed Tornado move was given to Dr. Mario in ''For 3DS[=/=]Wii U''. Others argue that his moveset doesn't need an overhaul, as he is already portrayed as powerful and dominating as in his home series; pointing out that Ganondorf has used several hand-to-hand moves throughout the series,[[note]]He uses a GroundPunch in ''Ocarina of Time'', punches Link several times in a cutscene in ''Wind Waker'', and kicks and elbows in his boss fight in ''Twilight Princess'', to name a few[[/note]] that using him with his optimal custom moves in ''[=SSB4=]''[[note]]usually Warlock Blade (to let him use his sword), Dark Fists (to reflect his surprising jumping abilities), and Wizard's Dropkick (which is superficially similar to a move he had in ''Twilight Princess'' where he would hop out of the way and retaliate)[[/note]] lets him be even more faithful to his home series, and most importantly, his moveset is just too fun to use to be removed or be shunted off to lesser-known character like Black Shadow. In fact, there are a sizable number of fans who want him to be portrayed as a brawler in a ''Zelda'' game to reconcile his ''Smash'' moveset. The fact that he was a bottom-tier character in ''Brawl'' and is still generally considered low-tier in ''[=SSB4=]'' in both games heightens the debate even more; it says something when ''Smash'' Ganondorf is considered a MemeticBadass ''and'' a MemeticLoser by different parts of the fandom. ''Ultimate'' attempted to ThrowTheDogABone by changing his Smash attacks to use his sword, however, this was a controversial move itself, especially given that the attacks were ripped from Ike and Cloud's movesets rather than made from scratch, and the rest of his moveset is still based on Captain Falcon's. Some saw this as a reasonable attempt at making Ganondorf more true to the source material without completely alienating players who enjoy his current moveset. Others saw it as a half-assed compromise that fails to please either side.


* '''Ganondorf''''s moveset in ''Smash'' is by far the most controversial in the series, due to the discrepancy from his canon portrayal as a sword or trident-wielding sorcerer who fires magic from a distance, and for being a clone of the unrelated Captain Falcon. Many wish that his moveset would change to a more series-faithful depiction involving his iconic use of weapons and magic blasts, use this as an argument for Sakurai being biased against the ''Zelda'' series, and claim that Sakurai intentionally trolls his fans with things such as Ganondorf's sword taunt and Warlock Blade being a one-off optional move. These fans often point to ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriors'', which portrays him with dual greatswords, as an example of what Ganondorf ''should'' be like in ''Smash''. The fact that Bowser, Pit and even other ''Zelda'' characters such as Link and Sheik got moveset revamps that usually reflected their subsequent games was seen as a low blow by many of these fans. Some of these fans tend to want to give his moveset to ''F-Zero'' villain Black Shadow, who has the same body type as Ganondorf and whose connection to F-Zero would better justify a semi-cloned moveset to Falcon; often justifying it by pointing out that Mario's sorely missed Tornado move was given to Dr. Mario in ''For 3DS[=/=]Wii U''. Others argue that his moveset doesn't need an overhaul, as he is already portrayed as powerful and dominating as in his home series; pointing out that Ganondorf has used several hand-to-hand moves throughout the series,[[note]]He uses a GroundPunch in ''Ocarina of Time'', punches Link several times in a cutscene in ''Wind Waker'', and kicks and elbows in his boss fight in ''Twilight Princess'', to name a few[[/note]] that using him with his optimal custom moves in ''[=SSB4=]''[[note]]usually Warlock Blade (to let him use his sword), Dark Fists (to reflect his surprising jumping abilities), and Wizard's Dropkick (which is superficially similar to a move he had in ''Twilight Princess'' where he would hop out of the way and retaliate)[[/note]] lets him be even more faithful to his home series, and most importantly, his moveset is just too fun to use to be removed or be shunted off to lesser-known character like Black Shadow. In fact, there are a sizable number of fans who want him to be portrayed as a brawler in a ''Zelda'' game to reconcile his ''Smash'' moveset. The fact that he was a bottom-tier character in ''Brawl'' and is still generally considered low-tier in ''[=SSB4=]'' in both games heightens the debate even more; it says something when ''Smash'' Ganondorf is considered a MemeticBadass ''and'' a MemeticLoser by different parts of the fandom.

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* '''Ganondorf''''s moveset in ''Smash'' is by far the most controversial in the series, due to the discrepancy from his canon portrayal as a sword or trident-wielding sorcerer who fires magic from a distance, and for being a clone of the unrelated Captain Falcon. Many wish that his moveset would change to a more series-faithful depiction involving his iconic use of weapons and magic blasts, use this as an argument for Sakurai being biased against the ''Zelda'' series, and claim that Sakurai intentionally trolls his fans with things such as Ganondorf's sword taunt and Warlock Blade being a one-off optional move. These fans often point to ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriors'', which portrays him with dual greatswords, as an example of what Ganondorf ''should'' be like in ''Smash''. The fact that Bowser, Pit and even other ''Zelda'' characters such as Link and Sheik got moveset revamps that usually reflected their subsequent games was seen as a low blow by many of these fans. Some of these fans tend to want to give his moveset to ''F-Zero'' villain Black Shadow, who has the same body type as Ganondorf and whose connection to F-Zero would better justify a semi-cloned moveset to Falcon; often justifying it by pointing out that Mario's sorely missed Tornado move was given to Dr. Mario in ''For 3DS[=/=]Wii U''. Others argue that his moveset doesn't need an overhaul, as he is already portrayed as powerful and dominating as in his home series; pointing out that Ganondorf has used several hand-to-hand moves throughout the series,[[note]]He uses a GroundPunch in ''Ocarina of Time'', punches Link several times in a cutscene in ''Wind Waker'', and kicks and elbows in his boss fight in ''Twilight Princess'', to name a few[[/note]] that using him with his optimal custom moves in ''[=SSB4=]''[[note]]usually Warlock Blade (to let him use his sword), Dark Fists (to reflect his surprising jumping abilities), and Wizard's Dropkick (which is superficially similar to a move he had in ''Twilight Princess'' where he would hop out of the way and retaliate)[[/note]] lets him be even more faithful to his home series, and most importantly, his moveset is just too fun to use to be removed or be shunted off to lesser-known character like Black Shadow. In fact, there are a sizable number of fans who want him to be portrayed as a brawler in a ''Zelda'' game to reconcile his ''Smash'' moveset. The fact that he was a bottom-tier character in ''Brawl'' and is still generally considered low-tier in ''[=SSB4=]'' in both games heightens the debate even more; it says something when ''Smash'' Ganondorf is considered a MemeticBadass ''and'' a MemeticLoser by different parts of the fandom. ''Ultimate'' attempted to ThrowTheDogABone by changing his Smash attacks to use his sword, however, this was a controversial move itself, especially given that the attacks were ripped from Ike and Cloud's movesets rather than made from scratch, and the rest of his moveset is still based on Captain Falcon's. Some saw this as a reasonable attempt at making Ganondorf more true to the source material without completely alienating players who enjoy his current moveset. Others saw it as a half-assed compromise that fails to please either side.


* '''Pac-Man''' has gotten complaints for not representing his franchise outside of the arcade era, Many of which had wished the ''VideoGame/PacManWorld'' series had been looked at for inspiration for his moveset, stage and music as it was what arguably made a lot of people want the character in since the Brawl days to begin with. Along with this, The idea to represent Pac-Land has gotten a lot of flack (moreso for being one of the most hated stages in Smash history) and argue that he should have just stuck to representing the arcade games or the world games (fans really disagree with only representing the arcade era as it's all Namco has acknowledged in recent year), Others argue Pac-Land was a great choice despite being obscure as the game came out before the original Super Mario and being the main inspiration for that game's creation.

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* '''Pac-Man''' has gotten complaints for not representing his franchise outside of the arcade era, Many many of which had wished the ''VideoGame/PacManWorld'' series had been looked at for inspiration for his moveset, stage and music as it was what arguably made a lot of people want the character in since the Brawl days to begin with. Along with this, The idea to represent Pac-Land has gotten a lot of flack (moreso (more so for being one of the most hated stages in Smash history) and argue that he should have just stuck to representing the arcade games or the world games (fans really disagree with only representing the arcade era as it's all Namco has acknowledged in recent year), era),. Others argue Pac-Land was a great choice despite being obscure as the game came out before the original Super Mario and being the main inspiration for that game's creation.

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* '''Pac-Man''' has gotten complaints for not representing his franchise outside of the arcade era, Many of which had wished the ''VideoGame/PacManWorld'' series had been looked at for inspiration for his moveset, stage and music as it was what arguably made a lot of people want the character in since the Brawl days to begin with. Along with this, The idea to represent Pac-Land has gotten a lot of flack (moreso for being one of the most hated stages in Smash history) and argue that he should have just stuck to representing the arcade games or the world games (fans really disagree with only representing the arcade era as it's all Namco has acknowledged in recent year), Others argue Pac-Land was a great choice despite being obscure as the game came out before the original Super Mario and being the main inspiration for that game's creation.


* One debate focuses not on a ''franchise'' taking up a disproportionate part of the roster, but a certain style of character, as some feel that there are too many swordsmen. This doesn't just mean characters that use their sword and only their sword, like Marth, Ike, or Shulk, but anyone that happens to ''have'' a sword, like Link and Robin. As of the fifth game, sixteen out of the 65+ characters[[note]]Link, Young Link, Marth, Lucina, Roy, Ganondorf, Meta Knight, Pit, Dark Pit, Ike, Toon Link, Mii Swordfighter, Robin, Shulk, Cloud, and Corrin[[/note]] have swordplay as part of their moveset, which is a point of contention for people talking about roster additions or cuts. Swords are fairly prominent in Nintendo's [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda high]] [[VideoGame/FireEmblem fantasy]] [[VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}} franchises]], so people will often point out that their [[HeroesPreferSwords respective protagonists]] will usually get first dibs for new roster additions, so more swords should be expected. On the other hand, other people are seeing this as a reason to call for characters like [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Hector]], [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheSacredStones Ephraim]], [[Franchise/{{Castlevania}} Simon Belmont]], VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[Franchise/StarFox Krystal]], or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]] to make the jump to the roster just because they have a non-sword weapon. Heaven forbid you want to discuss how potentially different [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]], [[VideoGame/SinAndPunishment Saki]], [[VideoGame/NazoNoMurasameJo Takamaru]], or [[VideoGame/TheFrogForWhomTheBellTolls the Sablé Prince]] could be compared to anyone else, just because they use swords of some kind. This discussion is also only ever held about swords and nothing else, despite ''[=SSB4=]'' and ''Ultimate'' having more than half as many firearm-wielding characters as sword users.[[note]]Samus, Fox, Falco, Zero Suit Samus, Snake, Diddy Kong, R.O.B., Wolf, Mega Man, Mii Gunner, Bayonetta, and the Inklings[[/note]]

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* One debate focuses not on a ''franchise'' taking up a disproportionate part of the roster, but a certain style of character, as some feel that there are too many swordsmen. This doesn't just mean characters that use their sword and only their sword, like Marth, Ike, or Shulk, but anyone that happens to ''have'' a sword, like Link and Robin. As of the fifth game, sixteen out of the 65+ characters[[note]]Link, Young Link, Marth, Lucina, Roy, Ganondorf, Roy, Meta Knight, Pit, Dark Pit, Ike, Toon Link, Mii Swordfighter, Robin, Shulk, Cloud, and Corrin[[/note]] have swordplay as part of their moveset, which is a point of contention for people talking about roster additions or cuts. Swords are fairly prominent in Nintendo's [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda high]] [[VideoGame/FireEmblem fantasy]] [[VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}} franchises]], so people will often point out that their [[HeroesPreferSwords respective protagonists]] will usually get first dibs for new roster additions, so more swords should be expected. On the other hand, other people are seeing this as a reason to call for characters like [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Hector]], [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheSacredStones Ephraim]], [[Franchise/{{Castlevania}} Simon Belmont]], VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[Franchise/StarFox Krystal]], or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]] to make the jump to the roster just because they have a non-sword weapon. Heaven forbid you want to discuss how potentially different [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]], [[VideoGame/SinAndPunishment Saki]], [[VideoGame/NazoNoMurasameJo Takamaru]], or [[VideoGame/TheFrogForWhomTheBellTolls the Sablé Prince]] could be compared to anyone else, just because they use swords of some kind. This discussion is also only ever held about swords and nothing else, despite ''[=SSB4=]'' and ''Ultimate'' having more than half as many firearm-wielding characters as sword users.[[note]]Samus, Fox, Falco, Zero Suit Samus, Snake, Diddy Kong, R.O.B., Wolf, Mega Man, Mii Gunner, Bayonetta, and the Inklings[[/note]]


* Some feel that Xander Mobus, the ''Smash 4'' announcer, is way too young (he is in his 20s, whereas the previous three announcers were significantly older). This could also be seen as [[OneOfUs conflict-of-interest]]. Combined with the fact that he reprises his role in ''Ultimate''...

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*Some feel that Xander Mobus, the ''Smash 4'' announcer, is way too young (he is in his 20s, whereas the previous three announcers were significantly older). This could also be seen as [[OneOfUs conflict-of-interest]]. Combined with the fact that he reprises his role in ''Ultimate''...


* '''Waluigi'''. Being an EnsembleDarkhorse in his home series, people naturally wanted him as a fighter, and many were disappointed when it turned out he was still an Assist Trophy in ''Ultimate''. The reactions are divided into three camps: those that are okay with it due to his lack of proper importance, those that are disappointed that he didn't get in but were satisfied nonetheless, and those who went so crazy about Waluigi's absence from the roster that the [[{{Tagline}} "Everyone is here!" tagline]] means nothing to them if Waluigi isn't included (despite the fact that it was referring to every veteran fighter coming back). Some have even taken to [[https://mobile.twitter.com/wonderhavoc/status/1008787668824555521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%231008787668824555521 harassing Masahiro Sakurai with memes on social media]]. Some see it as justice for Waluigi not getting in, while others are quick to call these people out on their behavior and has turned their back against him.

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* '''Waluigi'''. Being an EnsembleDarkhorse in his home series, people naturally wanted him as a fighter, and many were disappointed when it turned out he was still an Assist Trophy in ''Ultimate''. The reactions are divided into three camps: those that are okay with it due to his lack of proper importance, those that are disappointed that he didn't get in but were satisfied nonetheless, and those who went so crazy about Waluigi's absence from the roster that the [[{{Tagline}} "Everyone is here!" tagline]] means nothing to them if Waluigi isn't included (despite the fact that it was referring to every veteran fighter coming back). Some have even taken to [[https://mobile.twitter.com/wonderhavoc/status/1008787668824555521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%231008787668824555521 harassing Masahiro Sakurai with memes on social media]]. Some see it as justice for Waluigi not getting in, while others are quick to call these people out on their behavior behavior, and has some people have turned their back against him.on the man in purple.



* One debate focuses not on a ''franchise'' taking up a disproportionate part of the roster, but a certain style of character, as some feel that there are too many swordsmen. This doesn't just mean characters that use their sword and only their sword, like Marth, Ike, or Shulk, but anyone that happens to ''have'' a sword, like Link and Robin. As of the fifth game, sixteen out of the 65+ characters[[note]]Link, Young Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Meta Knight, Pit, Dark Pit, Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Shulk, Cloud, and Mii Swordfighter[[/note]] have swordplay as part of their moveset, which is a point of contention for people talking about roster additions or cuts. Swords are fairly prominent in Nintendo's [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda high]] [[VideoGame/FireEmblem fantasy]] [[VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}} franchises]], so people will often point out that their [[HeroesPreferSwords respective protagonists]] will usually get first dibs for new roster additions, so more swords should be expected. On the other hand, other people are seeing this as a reason to call for characters like [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Hector]], [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheSacredStones Ephraim]], [[Franchise/{{Castlevania}} Simon Belmont]], VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[Franchise/StarFox Krystal]], or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]] to make the jump to the roster just because they have a non-sword weapon. Heaven forbid you want to discuss how potentially different [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]], [[VideoGame/SinAndPunishment Saki]], [[VideoGame/NazoNoMurasameJo Takamaru]], or [[VideoGame/TheFrogForWhomTheBellTolls the Sablé Prince]] could be compared to anyone else, just because they use swords of some kind. This discussion is also only ever held about swords and nothing else, despite ''[=SSB4=]'' and ''Ultimate'' having half as many firearm-wielding characters as sword users.[[note]]Diddy Kong, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Snake, Mega Man, and the Inklings[[/note]]

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* One debate focuses not on a ''franchise'' taking up a disproportionate part of the roster, but a certain style of character, as some feel that there are too many swordsmen. This doesn't just mean characters that use their sword and only their sword, like Marth, Ike, or Shulk, but anyone that happens to ''have'' a sword, like Link and Robin. As of the fifth game, sixteen out of the 65+ characters[[note]]Link, Young Link, Toon Link, Marth, Lucina, Roy, Ganondorf, Meta Knight, Pit, Dark Pit, Marth, Roy, Ike, Toon Link, Mii Swordfighter, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Shulk, Cloud, and Mii Swordfighter[[/note]] Corrin[[/note]] have swordplay as part of their moveset, which is a point of contention for people talking about roster additions or cuts. Swords are fairly prominent in Nintendo's [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda high]] [[VideoGame/FireEmblem fantasy]] [[VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}} franchises]], so people will often point out that their [[HeroesPreferSwords respective protagonists]] will usually get first dibs for new roster additions, so more swords should be expected. On the other hand, other people are seeing this as a reason to call for characters like [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Hector]], [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheSacredStones Ephraim]], [[Franchise/{{Castlevania}} Simon Belmont]], VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[Franchise/StarFox Krystal]], or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]] to make the jump to the roster just because they have a non-sword weapon. Heaven forbid you want to discuss how potentially different [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]], [[VideoGame/SinAndPunishment Saki]], [[VideoGame/NazoNoMurasameJo Takamaru]], or [[VideoGame/TheFrogForWhomTheBellTolls the Sablé Prince]] could be compared to anyone else, just because they use swords of some kind. This discussion is also only ever held about swords and nothing else, despite ''[=SSB4=]'' and ''Ultimate'' having more than half as many firearm-wielding characters as sword users.[[note]]Diddy Kong, Samus, [[note]]Samus, Fox, Falco, Zero Suit Samus, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Snake, Diddy Kong, R.O.B., Wolf, Mega Man, Mii Gunner, Bayonetta, and the Inklings[[/note]]

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