This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Biffbiffley: I would like to see the "Proof" that the army has regarding women in combat, please. Remember these are the people who say that decorated servicemen and women who happen to be gay are unfit for duty. In short, I'm calling BS but I want to keep discussion off the main page. (you're welcome)
Nephandi Man: Guess this is the first entry here, so I'll get it going. Regarding the Death Note entry on this page: vengeful much? I've been turning that example over and over in my head, and it hit me that we simply don't know enough about that instance to render such a sharp verdict. For all we know, Naomi herself may have been the one who suggested it in the first place, in order to keep herself from sacrificing her own well-being in order to chase mysteries. Remember that one of the few things we know about her is that she thinks fondly of L, and let's face it: she would have to be at least a little too dedicated to crime-solving in order to work closely with L and still think fondly of him. Besides, given what happens to her, can you deny that keeping her mind off of the Kira case would have been a good idea?
Zeke: Just looked at that entry and wow was it stupid. ("Bastard got what was coming to him"? Good Lord, vengeful doesn't cover it.) I've revised the entry to give some actual context.
Lavode: It could have been phrased better, but if the trope isn't justified in the actual text (or context) it's not justified, right? The reader shouldn't have to come up with their own justifications.
- In the Subspace Emisary of Super Smash Bros Brawl, Snake tells Princesses Peach and Zelda that they should stay there, after rescuing them in the Halberd, although he doesn't know that they are perfectly capable of holding of their own in the fight and they immediately go after the others.
- As I assume he is not aware that they are capable fighters, and as their appearances do not suggest anything of the sort, it seems a reasonable assumption on his part. This example would fit the trope only if he knew the truth and still told them to stay behind.
- Consider Snake's track history of rescuing prisoners deep inside of bases.
- And really, does Peach's history exactly inspire confidence?
- Does Zelda's either? She's been kidnapped in what, all but two games? And she only fights in two games as well unless I'm mistaken...
- As I assume he is not aware that they are capable fighters, and as their appearances do not suggest anything of the sort, it seems a reasonable assumption on his part. This example would fit the trope only if he knew the truth and still told them to stay behind.
- In The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, Susan and Lucy are warned by Father Christmas not to participate in the upcoming battle. Susan does, however, receive a magical bow.
- Lucy receives a dagger — and that, probably because she couldn't have lifted and swung a sword if he'd given her one, being the youngest and smallest, and wasn't trained in archery like Susan already was. And again, this example doesn't quite fit the trope; Susan had no particular desire to fight and prove herself as a warrior and neither did Lucy, whose concern was more about being seen as afraid and worthless (and being left out of the whole adventure) rather than about being left out of the fighting. They later call her Lucy the Valiant.
- Also, when Lucy is an adult in The Horse and His Boy, no one gainsays her presence on the battlefield as an archer, and Prince Cor praises her as the equal of any male bowman. Her older sister Susan, on the other hand, personally chooses not to join in the battle, although she has become and remained an excellent archer; Corin explains to Cor that while Susan has more than enough archery skills, she just doesn't like fighting.
- "The equal of any male bowman"? Sounds like she's a credit to her sex.
ILP: I added a quote for FSN which is slightly out of context but funny all the same. I also extended Shirou's entry slightly so I'll give my rationale for doing so. Essentially, very little of Shirou's bizarre chauvanism is present in Unlimited Blade Works or Heaven's Feel. (I get the impression that what he does have was slowly drilled in by Sakura). Thus, I reason that Shirou's objection to Saber fighting during the Fate scenario stems not from some sort of inbuilt "Girls shouldn't fight" philosophy but more from the fact that he didn't want to see her cut up so horribly as she was when she fought Berserker. Whoever wrote the original entry was being a little too harsh, especially since the game does not portray Shirou as highly idiotic. It does pretty much the opposite; taking actions which might seem logical can result in a bad end. Just food for thought. By the way, I loved the "Fate/stay in the kitchen" thing.
Zeke: Good edit, ILP. Personally, I think it's a bit much for people to call Shirou a chauvinist even in Fate. His problem is more like unthinking chivalry, and no matter how much society has changed, I believe that chivalry (without the unthinking part) is a good and noble thing. Shirou was dumb to keep Saber from fighting, but the instinct behind that decision was nothing to be ashamed of.
As for "Fate/stay in the kitchen", I don't know if this is the original source, but it's the punchline of this veloxiraptor parody
(NSFW). Read the others too, he's hilarious.
MercuryInRetrograde How about the flip side of this trope? A possible name for it would be 'White Feather' after the white feathers that suffragettes handed out to men during World War One to shame them into fighting?
Fast Eddie: Pulled hotlinked image and ver-long epigraph. Please see Administrative Policy.
Cidolfas: Removed an example of the viera in Final Fantasy XII, claiming the Clan Primer said they kept their men out of sight. I have the full text of it available and it says no such thing; they're just a One-Gender Race. It entirely glosses over that point.
Licky Lindsay: should this page contain examples from older works when the writers and the audience all agreed about this, and no karmic payback happens to teach anybody any lesson? Narrator who said, "get the women back to Christmas town!" in ''Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer", I'm looking in your direction.
Rebochan: It's an example regardless of whether the person giving the order is punished for it or not.
Rebochan: I pulled the Dragonball example because it's not an example of this trope - nobody told any of the women to stay home and be protected, regardless of if they all retired and settled into more domestic lives. If there's an example in the show of someone telling a girl to stay behind, that's part of this trope.
