Reviews Westernanimation / My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic

How are the characters not flawed? Almost every episode explores at least one character flaw. Twilight is a worrywart prone to minor psychosis, Applejack is stubborn and prideful, Rarity is nitpicky and self-absorbed, Fluttershy is cripplingly shy and a doormat, Rainbow Dash is self-aggrandizing and oblivious, and Pinkie Pie has apparently never heard of personal space or alone time.

All the characters start out very flawed, and only start to lose or lessen those flaws as they develop over the course of the series.

Those are cliches not actual floors. Standard kids show stuff. I wanna see a kids so take a risk and have say a character with schizophrenia or maybe actual depression. Rather than "oh im a bit sad" In short less cliches more actual flaws

Even if they're cliches, which I'd also argue against, that doesn't mean they aren't real flaws. You could say that they're not original or interesting flaws, but they're still flaws, so saying the characters have none is disingenuous.

Cliches are no more inherently bad than tropes; it's all about the execution. A tomboy being stubborn may be a cliche, but the execution in Applebuck Season still makes it entertaining to watch as Applejack continuously deteriorates due to biting off more than she can chew and refusing help, and it treats her stubbornness as a real flaw with disastrous results rather than leaving it as a punchline. A girly girl and a tomboy not getting along is a cliche, but its execution in Look Before You Sleep is entertaining to watch because it's presented in terms of Applejack and Rarity's conflict escalating from snide comments to physical combat (albeit pillow-based) while at the same time trying to conceal their argument from the neutral Twilight.

As for schizophrenia or depression, remember that it is a kids' show, and kids are going to have a much harder time relating to those conditions than they will to ones like shyness or selfishness.

i didnt find any entertainment in it at all. I found it boring flat and lifeless I've seen a hundred times before i many better kids shows. Bob the Builder being a very british example but that got the cliches and flaws right.Or hell batman the animated series still a kids show that explored abusive relationships. The best mlp can do is "you need freinds or you will fail. Make sure you accept everyone! Always accept help!" No substance to the messages cheap messages seen in near every kids show but done worse. It isnt fun to watch a pillow fight between silly ponies. It is entertaining to watch say woody and buzz fight in the first toy story because there flaws and struggles feel very real and deep as opposed to "Im a tomboy. Im a girly gril let us fight with pillows hehehehehe oh but we learned our lesson afterwards because actual conflict would be so very rude!" Back to toy story even after the fight the conflict lasts until act three of the movie! It matters it means something it lasts unlike MLP which has no arcs just characters becoming slightly less cliche.

What's with all the negative reviews lately? For something that supposedly has a huge fanbase, there seem to be more and more people bashing on it every day. It's like MLP is becoming friggin' Pew Die Pie or something.

BAS was a series based on action and drama and targeted at an older audience, whereas MLP is a Slice Of Life comedy with occasional adventure interludes targeted at a younger audience. Being animated and 20-ish minutes long are basically the only thing they have in common in terms of their direction, so comparing them is about as appropriate as comparing The Dark Knight and Monty Python And The Holy Grail.

Toy Story has the benefit of being a movie rather than a TV series, so all you're really saying there is that movies have more time to develop conflicts than standalone television episodes. That's not a failing of the show's quality, that's a natural consequence of the series' format.

I've never seen Bob the Builder, so I can't comment on that.

You're also boiling MLP's aesops down to their most basic forms, if not outright twisting them. "Make sure you accept everyone," for example, isn't a lesson the show has ever taught. In fact, quite the contrary, "Griffon the Brush Off's" aesop was partially that some people are just jerks, and the best thing to do is just not associate with them. What the show does promote is always giving people a chance before writing them off. Granted, that's still a very basic lesson, but it's more nuanced than you're giving it credit for. And, again, the show is directed primarily at young children; little kids need to establish this kind of basic moral framework before they can build the more complex moral structures like those explored in BAS on top of it when they get a few years older.

Might just be me but i skipped the kiddy cartoons and went straight on to stuff like BAS and my problem is not that it didnt have as much time as a movie to develop characters. There has been plenty of time to develop consistent arcs over the course of the series. Also i feel bad you never saw the awesomeness that was bob the builder. If you ever get a chance to watch it please do. It is like MLP but more male orientated and in my opinion better. It has similar (in terms of personality) characters but unlike MLP despite it being a male aimed show it has plenty of female main characters. Wendy-Bobs business partner. Dizzy A cement mixer who is actually not dumb despite her name and most recently scratch a young digger. (it's an odd show) The character of lofty started out incredibly timid in the early days but his arc has lasted and while still not overly confident he still has become a stronger character.

MLP the characters just lose their flaws. Also that's One episode where they say some are jerks! ONE! Don't tell me i just dont get it. As i say it's not a terrible show far from it. However it does not handle cliche well and despite three seasons of the show heading into the forth i have yet to see any meaningful character arc or conflict that isnt played for laughs.

And if i dont like it why do i watch it? My little sister loves it and i often babysit so i watch it with her. I also watch Bob the Builder with her as well as Phineas and Ferb and when she's a bit older i'll introduce her to Adventure Time BAS and then live action show such as DR Who.

Speaking of which the david tennant run of dr who is how you do a character arc in a tv series. It has cliches and aesops but handles them properly. I thank you by the way for not falling into the "Rabid Brony" meme as you have been rather respectful albeit a bit pushy to change my mind. However after three seasons i doubt my opinion will change unless i see some actual development rather than "I now have outgrown my arbitrary stereotype" Also no everyone should be given a chance. If someone is walking round doing a nazi salute with a shaved head. According to MLP we should try and befreind all does that include Nazis? Or dare i say it people who dont like a kids show about horses.

Sorry i meant "Also no not everyone should be given a chance" My keyboard is messing up

If you want to be technical, according to MLP, we could've stopped the Holocaust by shooting a rainbow at Hitler.

But seriously though, the idea of some episodes (primarily the episode where Zecora is introduced) is that you should at least TRY to talk to someone before just writing them off as good or bad. To use that Nazi salute example you gave, yes, while that person could very well be a member of the group that wiped out millions of innocent lives, there's also a possibility they're just making a very crude and unfunny joke, or they don't know what the salute means.

Even if someone makes a Nazi joke they shouldnt be given a chance. Jokes like that are disgusting

"What's with all the negative reviews lately?For something that supposedly has a huge fanbase,there seem to be more and more people bashing on it every day."

Oh,no!It's almost like people are allowed to have different opinions and not only fans can express theirs!What happened to the world?

I like how you just typed some generic buzzwords in without explaining anything.

Also I don't think you know what Mary Sue means. Practically every episode is centered how one character is wrong or has some other flaw. Pinkie has some Sueish qualities (I'm thinking mostly of the Cranky episode), but she's still not bad enough to call her one.

@Matt Even if they're disgusting, it doesn't mean that person should just be written off. It just means they have a really twisted sense of humor.

@Menotti I wasn't saying people weren't allowed to have different opinions, I was just expressing amazement at the fact that, despite how popular the show is and how many people like it, more of the new reviews are negative instead of positive. It's the exact opposite of what usually happens with stuff.

Kay as i mentioned in my earlier points the flaws the characters have are arbitrary and extremely cliche to me thats as bad as not having flaws. Another kids show that got this right. X-men the original one. Or more recently Teen Titans. Real characters with flaws other then "I'm stubborn now for my arbitrary lesson about love friendship the heart of the cards ect. Also i said mary sue ish some characters i liked Discord was a cool villain and i guess Twilight could be entertaining. As i said the characters are much better than standard kids show fair. Also my review isnt overtly negatve. I gave it a five point four. Average/good not awful not even bad.

Comparing the show to X-men or Teen Titans is rather unfair, those shows are action superhero adventures, while this is more clearly just a comedy, which is why your "conflict is played for laughs" doesn't really make any sense to me. That's like comparing Ghost Busters to Terminator. Does Tom and Jerry suck too?

Forget the last part, I know you didn't say that, no idea why I wrote that.

@Matthew

And again with the buzzwords. It's a show designed for little girls. Of course they'll have simpler lessons like Be Yourself, "listen to your friends", "don't be ashamed of where you come from". What do you expect, an analyzation on how organized religion is bad or some crap like that?

And "mary sue ish" is still wrong. What on earth is that even supposed to mean? Methinks you don't know the meaning of most words you randomly blurt out.

@kay: These simple lessons are basically one of the very reasons that bronies shove down your throat as to why you should watch it. They think it's good because "In a world of corrupt society, it's nice to see a show that helps remind us of these ideals and morals and I can actually use them in my daily life", when in reality, I could probably find a plethora of preschool shows that use these exact same morals. Not to mention how they're hamfisted at the end reminds of "Barney Says" at the end of...well, you know. Personally, I like finding the lesson within the story rather than having someone outright tell me it.

I assume by "Mary Sue-ish" he means that the characters have SOME cliched elements rather than being all cliched or being a SOMEWHAT poorly written character rather than being a poorly written character entirely.

Thank you @x86x2! Somebody gets it!

Also Kay how can it be wrong if you dont know what it means? Strejda even if they are super hero shows the action isn't what shows the characters flaws and struggles it's the well written nature of the shows. Also Tom and Jerry i dont have a problem with because people dont claim it's serious business. Bronies act like MLP is this generation's Animainiacs! Which by the way is still awesome to this day. Another kids TV show that (Sort of) Got flawed kids characters right was the matt smith run of doctor who. That run is a kids show BTW and no where near as good as the awesomeness of the tennant era.

@x86

It's a show. Designed at little girls. As I've already said, of course the morals and lessons are simple, which isn't really a bad thing. What do you expect? And I'm not talking about bronies, I'm talking about the actual target audience. Please take your brony hate that you're parading around everywhere somewhere else, it's getting tiring.

And "clichéd elements" = / = Mary Sueish either, so I still have no idea what he was babbling on about. So Matthew, if you don't know what Mary Sue means then please don't use it. This word has lost most of its meaning due to incorrect use anyway.

Now I don't want to read review for My Little Pony anymore...

@Kay im so sorry you can't deal with other people's opinions. If you enjoy your show with its boring stereotype characters fine just dont expect any respect when you insult people. By Mary-Sue ish i meant there were cliched elements and the characters always got away with their actions there was no consequence for them messing up see "Games Ponies Play" Season three episode twelve for that.

Awww...c'mon,Matthew,you can find much better exemples of that getting away with their actions:I mean,they stole,brainwashed and put other's lives in danger and nobody even rose an eyebrow at that.

@Matthew

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's just that it's mind-boggingly stupid to expect something complicated out of a little girls cartoon. Your whole review is an excuse to whine about the fanbase anyway, you barely talk about the show (and when you do you explain absolutely nothing and just use random buzzwords) and your last review was pretty much only whining about the fanbase. Not very subtle.

And that's not what Mary-Sue ish means either. Please stop using words you don't know the meaning of.

I've watched perhaps six or seven different episodes of this show total, and I've read your original take on it. I gotta agree with Kate, you guys keep going back to complaining about the bronies (wasn't that the reason you changed the original...well, I can't call it a review). This is a kids show. Not a JLU or Tom & Jerry kind of show but more the likes of Calliu and Franking, I mean the sub title is friendship is magic. Isn't it unfair to complain about a show over a Vocal Minority that is not even the target audience. Mary Sue has become a code word for character I don't like, I think your thinking of Karma Houdini.

No they are Mary Sue ish as in not the well written Shakespearean master works they are lauded as. Also if i am not allowed to complain about bronies why does one troper get away with making a positive review about bronies? Oh wait yeah hypocrites are common in the brony fanbase

But that's not what Mary sue is, at least learn what it actually is before you start using it, also I explained to you how incredibly fallacious that way of reasoning is, go to a store stall something and use the reasoning that they should let you because you saw someone get away with it once and see how well that goes for you.

Hype Backslash does not make anyone a Mary Sue. Read the damn article, all your arguments are baseless and simply wrong.

And I haven't read every MLP review on this site, so no idea what you're babbling on about now. You can complain about bronies, but this is the review section, and it is supposed to review works and not the fanbase. And it's obvious that you primarily just wanted to bitch about the fanbase, judging from your last review.

Look this is my opinion and i shall stick to it and im talking about the review entitles "The Best Part Of This Show..." by Master Zero or a title to that effect. Go prove you're not a hypocrite hrmm? I think the characters are boring but not as bad as standard kids show fare. The animation looks good and is sometimes great but it gets a bit much and sometimes gives me headaches that's just my bad eyes though. The messages have been done and better in better kids shows. The comedy falls flat (Animainiacs did cartoon comedy perfectly imo) The villains..okay one villain, Discord is a very good character. The rest i dont like much. As none of you seem to understand i dont hate this show, i think it's decent. Average. Not bad but not on my top ten cartoons. Also in any future reviews i make i will comment on the fanbase as if a fanbase annoys me or is rude to my nine year old sister it detracts from my enjoyment of the show. Now then i'm off to watch my Dr Who Boxset

Look this is my opinion and i shall stick to it and im talking about the review entitles "The Best Part Of This Show..." by Master Zero or a title to that effect. Go prove you're not a hypocrite hrmm? I think the characters are boring but not as bad as standard kids show fare. The animation looks good and is sometimes great but it gets a bit much and sometimes gives me headaches that's just my bad eyes though. The messages have been done and better in better kids shows. The comedy falls flat (Animainiacs did cartoon comedy perfectly imo) The villains..okay one villain, Discord is a very good character. The rest i dont like much. As none of you seem to understand i dont hate this show, i think it's decent. Average. Not bad but not on my top ten cartoons. Also in any future reviews i make i will comment on the fanbase as if a fanbase annoys me or is rude to my nine year old sister it detracts from my enjoyment of the show. Now then i'm off to watch my Dr Who Boxset

Either your reading comprehension sucks or you're just trolling. I just said that the review section is supposed to review the work, not the fanbase. This obviously applies to the negative and positive parts. And nobody accused you of hating the show, you simply said things that were wrong and thus called out on.

Also that's One episode where they say some are jerks! ONE!

You say that as if "give everyone a chance" was the theme of every other episode, which is patently false. The only episodes that actually go into that lesson are Bridle Gossip and to a lesser extent Over a Barrel. Most episodes are about members of the primary cast making mistakes and having to learn from them. Further, Griffon the Brush Off is not the only example of a jerkish character being driven off. Trixie in Boast Busters and Flim & Flam in Super Cider Squeezy 6000 both immediately come to mind.

And, as I and others have pointed out several times, of course there aren't sweeping character arcs, because that's not the kind of show this is. You keep comparing it to drama-driven action shows with over-arching plots, but this is an episodic comedy show. This isn't a failing of the show's quality, it's a difference of the genre. You might as well compare Death of a Salesman to Louis CK's stand up. Even if there are surface similarities like being performed live on a stage, they're different formats with different goals.

Also no everyone should be given a chance. If someone is walking round doing a nazi salute with a shaved head. According to MLP we should try and befreind all does that include Nazis?

This is why it's taken me so long to bother responding again. And again, no, MLP does not propose befriending assholes, as I pointed out before with Griffon the Brush Off. What MLP teaches is that we shouldn't write people off without reason. If your introduction to someone is seeing them giving a Nazi salute, then you have a reason to write them off. What you shouldn't do, according to MLP, is write someone off for being German.

Or dare i say it people who dont like a kids show about horses.

I don't care if you like the show or not; that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'm just here to argue against your premises that the show is cliched and the characters are Mary Sues.

Also no everyone should be given a chance. If someone is walking round doing a nazi salute with a shaved head. According to MLP we should try and befreind all does that include Nazis?

Somehow I must've missed this line.

Gotta double the facepalms now, I guess.

@Kay (For some reason i keep typing Kat maybe i watch too much eastenders) That was an exaggerated example i don't honestly believe that i think i hadn't taken my meds that day. Also you might not find the character's mary sue's but twihards dont mind bella a mary sue. Its all opinion. I guess im just used to more..well i can't really describe it. Not more adult cause i love Animainiacs and Arthur and fuck i'll still watch classic Tomas the tank engine or thunderbirds are go. It's not that it's a girls show hell i loved oh..waht was it the one with the triplets and the evil monkey green thing. Powerpuff girls was it? That was by Lauren Faust so it isn't her...GOT It! I don't like the show because it does not make me think. I like shows that give me something to mull over in my head afterwards.

@Wryte then how come the psychiatrist character in animainiacs had an arc? A believeable one at that. Going from a frustrated doctor to more passive to a father figure? He dd that in a comedy sketch show. Look i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree but im sure we all can agree calling a nine year old a C*nt for getting a charcter name wrong is disgusting. Anyway

^Sorry, but it's a total pet peeve of mine when people say that Powerpuff Girls was made by Lauren Faust when it WASN'T. The show itself was created by her husband, Craig Mc Cracken. Lauren Faust was merely on the writing staff. Other than that, I can mostly agree with your arguement.

@x86x2 Ah thank you did not know that

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of whether the characters fit the described trope or not. Which the MLP characters don't. Bella from Twilight is a blatant Jerk Sue, and anyone who says she isn't is simply wrong.

@Kay well we agree on something it seems. I perosonally see the characters as Mary Sue's as their flaws dont seem to matter much and they also get away with everyi=thing wrong they do and are instantly forgiven after the episode where they do the bad thing- Karma Houdini. I find the characters shallow and boring for that very reason. Don't tell me to rxpect more from a little girls show i've seen young kids shows where conflicts last over multiple episodes and takes a while for the characters to trust each other again and i dont mean over multi part episodes. See Adventure Time. Or the Sarah Jane Adventures for examples of that.

Oh and Thunderbirds Are Go. Esecially Gordon's arc

The fanbase is mostly made up of generally respectful and kind people. Minus the word people that line is in the review

Then you are simply wrong. Their various flaws are the center of almost each episode, they don't get away with everything wrong they do (note that whatever "wrong" things they do are highly subjective and that people are prone to overreacting to them) Status Quo Is God. Pretty much no one is shown to care that they saved all of Equestria twice either, among other heroic things they've done. (though there are exceptions to this.

You simply misunderstand the trope Mary Sue.

TV Tropes doesn't get to set what the term means; the best we can do is capture the way it is used. Since there's no consensus on a precise definition, the best way to describe the phenomenon is by example of the kind of character pretty much everyone could agree to be a Mary Sue. These traits usually reference the character's perceived importance in the story, their physical design and an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature. Taken from the definition page of this very website.

Now i dont know about you but that sounds like the "mane six" to me. Now as i've said i no longer wish to continue a pointless argument over a pointless show about pointless characters. We can agree to disagree and part ways respectfully or you can keep insulting me your choice

(Sorry slipped on the button) It sounds like the mane six can be seen as Mary Sues by some but not all of us. Just as some people see Rose Tyler a mary sue i disagree but i can understand why people would say that she is

Pointing out that you're wrong isn't the same as insulting you.

Either your reading comprehension sucks or you're just trolling Insulting my abillity to read. As i've said you can go back to insulting nine year olds and i can go back to Dr Who it's you who keeps this argument going

That's not an insult, it's an observation of someone who obviously can't read properly. And you're nine years old? Now I'm not surprised by your... various responses anymore.

No i was referring to the abuse my nine year old sister got for getting a character name wrong on a brony forum. Mentioned in the review it'self

When a nine year old girl gets called a "C*nt" im not gonna respect the people who said that stuff.

Then why the heck did you say "you can go back to insulting nine year olds" if the only person I've "insulted" (according to you anyway) was you? Makes no sense.

I was making reference to my distrust of "Bronies" and the user who called my sister that had the same attitude as you. Also to say i "Can't Read" is an insult. Plain and simple. It's an insult to my intelligence. Reading is one of the things i do to calm down. Hell i'm reading an e-book right now. It's called The Left Hand Of God. Very good book actually. Annoying love interest character but hey no book is perfect.

Then read properly if you don't want people to point these things out. On the other hand you comparing me to someone who called a 9 year old a "cunt" is an insult, and an unwarranted one at that. Typical hater attitude.

I'm not a hater. As i've said. It's a decent show. With decent (if not complex) characters. Good animation crap songs and not very good jokes but alright writing. It's good even great for it's target audience. Also you keep dodging the face that you. not me was the one who said i can't read. You said i was also "mindbogglingly Stupid" for expecting complexity from a kids cartoon. Umm no. Many kids cartoons have complexity. Adventure Time,BAS and live action kids shows such as the Sarah Jane Adventures have plenty of complexity. SJA had an arc where one character has to question what it means to be human. In a kids show. The kid in question is a clone grown by aliens who needs to adapt to human society due to him being a genius but with the outlook of a little kid due to him being grown. It comes to a head in the amazing season one finale where there is a question mark hung over his entire existence. This is a show aimed at kids seven and up.

That sounds like complexity to me.

That sounds like complexity to me.

(Sorry if some comments get posted twice my keyboard is evil.)

You are so missing the point it's not even funny.

"you keep dodging the face that you. not me was the one who said i can't read"

??? Are you stupid? (yes, that just now is in fact an insult) Or do you just have difficulty expressing yourself?

The second one. I can never fully figure out hat to say before i say it. Sorry i have personality disorders.

That explains some things.

Look i dont want to argue anymore i get upset and it sets of the attacks which leads to me hurting myself. Look if you like the show more power to you but i dont. I find the characters shallow and dull. I find it good to watch with my sister though. She loves it. But to say you shouldn't expect complexity from a kids show is wrong on many levels.

So can we put this behind us? I'm sorry for any offence caused.

Missing the point again, I see.

I'm trying to end this argument! You told me i was stupid to expect complexity from show for little kids.

No, I said "little girls cartoon".

The Sarah Jane Adventures while not a cartoon is aimed at younger kids (season one and two mostly) and is more female oriented with both the the main character obviously being female the audience surrogate in all the series is a girl Maria then Rani. it is definatly more female orientated and aimed at young girls than Dr who. Seen in the main characters "Sonic Lipstick" as opposed to the Doctor's "sonic screwdriver" also the character of Sky in series four i believe is a girl of about maybe eight. The show is targeted to both genders but most of it's fans appear to be female and yet it has plenty of complexity.

Little girls cartoon. Sarah Jane is a spin-off from Doctor Who as well, which makes a comparison even more ridiculous.

Why does it being live action make any difference. Do you think cartoons cant be complex? Or is it more that SJA is sci-fi where as MLP is..whatever MLP is what genre does that belong to? Adventure comedy?

This hurts to read in places. Just... this is why there should be an option to lock review comments.

Oh joy more insults. Look literally ten minutes ago i got some bad news about my granddad so can i ask we leave this please?

Oh joy more insults. Look literally ten minutes ago i got some bad news about my granddad so can i ask we leave this please?

Oh joy more insults. Look literally ten minutes ago i got some bad news about my granddad so can i ask we leave this please?

It was aimed more at you AND kay, to tell you the truth; if no-one responded at this level, this bloody 71 (72 now) comment fight could have never existed.

And hey, special mention to the rest I suppose. They all have some points, but the credibility-to-catfight ratio in this comment section for just about everyone is wildly skewed towards catfight.

If you guys want to knock it off, please do. And Matt, dude - get some help. Not necessarily about your writing and reasoning, but about your emotional control and/or your grandfather - sounds like this comment blitz has been fueled by some negative news. Get better soon, buddy.

No it's because of the insults bronies hurled at my sister and then everyone attacking me for disliking a show about pwetty ponies

If you take regular criticism as insults and know and acknowledge that you have some medical issues then don't make reviews here. Also why are you so desperate to have the last word? No one is forcing you to come back, you and plain and simply not respond. I have some issues with what you say specially your everyone should appeal to my reality kind of view, but if you're just gonna keep acting this way, why bother.

I got called stupid and that i couldn't read. As i've said i dont care if people like the show. Ive said that many times.

I'll have to agree that a brony saying stuff like that to a little girl is a bit over the top. I mean hey, it's a kid's show - if you're going to get pissy at someone getting the names wrong, stop interacting with potential children.

But regardless. How about we all step off and leave this review? Permanently would be great, but maybe you guys can give it a 24 hour break or something.

Alright but making reviews and stuff helps with my attacks

It may have been a bit to much, but you do indeed miss the point and create your own a lot, usually at the expense of addressing the real points people have made, also you just admitted this was with the purpose of attacking, which you seem to think people do to you for simply saying nit to agree with you. And since you keep bringing up the briny calling your sister a cunt, again I tell you, this is not you personal complaining blog.

No attacks as in my disorders. I have "attacks" where they get worse. Letting out my opinions of stuff it calms me down stos me from going overboard. Sorry this took awhile was at the hospital visiting my Granddad. Also in my comments i did go into further detail.

Yeah, I'm just going to skip over, like, the last 25 comments.

Matt, I'm sorry that someone insulted your sister, especially in such an inappropriate way. That behavior is inexcusable. However, it is also not in the slightest bit relevant to a review of the show. Reviews are for discussing the work, not its fanbase. Every show, book, game, film, and song has total assholes among its fanbase, but they are irrelevant to reviews of the work itself, with some exception in terms of social media like MMOs, which this is not.

Now, let's try to get back on topic before the mods decide to wipe out this entire comment section.

Going back to Mary Sue, it's simply demonstrably false that the characters are idealized and flawless. Again, virtually every episode deals with at least one major character flaw, often having to do with the core of the character. Idealization is when a character's flaws are played in such a way as to make the character more successful or appealing; the most common example is a "stubborn" character, where her stubbornness just translates into her always getting her way in the story, with no consequences to it. A character is not idealized if core aspects of their character have been shown to have real negative consequences, such as AJ's stubbornness causing chaos all over Ponyville, ruining her health, and ultimately failing to accomplish her goal in Applebuck Season, or Twilight's perfectionism driving her to abandon all sense of good judgement in pursuit of success in Lesson Zero. Granted, things do always ultimately work out in the end in the show, but again, we're talking about an episodic Slice Of Life comedy for children, not a drama-driven action show with overarching seasonal plots. Happy endings are to be expected, and even then, they only come about as a result of learning and growing from mistakes or, rarely, outside intervention.

I have a very hard time understanding how you can consider the doctor from Animaniacs to have had a fulfilling character arc while at the same time saying the Mane 6 just arbitrarily pick up and lose qualities and flaws. Granted, it has been a long time since Animaniacs was on the air and I don't remember enough to say so with authority, but I strongly suspect rose colored glasses have more to do with this judgement than actual superiority.

Not rose colored glasses freind i only recently got into animainiacs when i found out Pinky and The Brain was a spin off of it (Only Pinky and The Brain was broadcast in the uk rather than all of animainiacs) So i picked up the dvds or as many as i could and i think why i like the dr's arc is it feels natural and not forced whereas the arc in my opinon at least in MLP doesn't feel natural. It's hard to pin it down i think what you see as an advantage i see as a disadvantage. If every episode shows the characters dealing with the same flaw ie Applejack's stubborness then surely she has learned nothing. Surely her flaw or flaws should change over time? I don't know maybe in Britain we have a differing view on character arcs in TV shows might be a cultural thing.

But anyway a better example of an arc in a kids tv show would be Luke's from season 1 and slightly season two of SJA which despite it being a male character im using i still think SJA is more female oriented than Dr Who or Torchwood, that arc deals with luke's flaws ie his genius but genuine lack of understanding of how teenagers act as he was "born" at around 13 years old. His little interactions and slow progression of his arc over the first thirteen episodes where he gradually over comes his flaws while picking up new minor ones is very convincing. This show is also mostly episodic with the two slitheen episodes being the only two parters in season one. It is a Slice Of Life adventure/sci-fi show for children but it managed to pull of what i like in a character arc. Slow natural progression. Consequences that last beyond the current episode estsablishing moments defeats and victory ultimatly ending in a satisfying conclusion where Luke despite his genius finally figures out how to fit in. He goes from something grown to a true person a well crafted 3d character. He still has his flaws which are brought up later especially in the last two seasons the last being cut short due to Elizabeth slayton's tragic death.

I hope i have explained what i consider a good arc for a children's show to be. Also i think the pink one has a daft name cant remember it is the most Sue-ish of the main group followed by the shy one then the fashiony one then the blue one everyone loves then Apllejack then Twilight who is the only non Discord character i liked a bit. I was wrong to say all the characters were Mary Sue's but each displays sueish qualities and always get away with what they do.

Also in terms of humor and education/message Animainiacs to me at least is far better than most shows as it made learning fun. I still cant remember Yakko's world Lol. Animainiacs also had more of a sense of charm to it's often crazy animation that i feel most 2000-2013 cartoons lack not Just MLP despite being raised around cartoons of the two thousands i strongly believe the nineties was when cartoons where at their best then the eighties with the awesome cheesiness of Transformers GI Joe and the so bad it's good charm of he-man and thundercats

"If every episode shows the characters dealing with the same flaw ie Applejack's stubborness then surely she has learned nothing. Surely her flaw or flaws should change over time?"

Applejack happily accepts her friends' help in the Flim and Flam episode, so yes the characters do learn.

The what episode? Look im done with you Kay. I do not wish to talk with you anymore. You do make a fair point those i have not seen that episode and cannot therefore comment.

The show never grows out of the theme surrounding the six. Rather than expand, it tends to just gravitate back to the center and it makes the whole thing seem so linear. (Huh, what?)

TRANSLATION: When the show touches on the subject of friendship, it's ALWAYS centered on the Main Six. Friendship doesn't extend towards other ponies that would benefit in learning the value of friendship as much as Twilight Sparkle did (Flim and Flam, Trixie), because all the show needs is to show how WONDERFUL and PERFECT the Main Six's friendship is compared to friendships forged in Equestria. They're an example, and nothing more. They don't grow up, they run out of things to learn. An isolated ideal friendship that "rains fiat decree" on anti-friendshippers with the Elements of Harmony and beating them into submission in the process. And everybody's okay with this. Including the villains.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that really what friendship in reality is about? Not making more friends outside of your circle? Not "loving and tolerating" your enemies no matter how bad they are? Just never, you know, growing up?

Except they make friends outside their circle, like Zecora. Or Luna. A whole episode is centered around Fluttershy "redeeming" and befriending Discord. Then there are the episodes dedicated to the Cutie Mark Crusaders.

Naturally other characters don't get as much focus, since they're not the main characters, but quite a few episodes center around the mane six trying to befriend someone and/or finding out they're not as bad as they might seem at first.

Ooohh one whole episode. Besides Discord only worked as a villain. Redeeming him was pointless. He was a very interesting (well as interesting as characters on this show get) character but nope "FRIENDSHIP F*CK YEAH" and bye bye interesting villain.

Ooohh one whole episode. Besides Discord only worked as a villain. Redeeming him was pointless. He was a very interesting (well as interesting as characters on this show get) character but nope "FRIENDSHIP F*CK YEAH" and bye bye interesting villain.

>Zecora

>Luna

And you wonder why I insulted your ability to read earlier. And the concept of "example" is apparently beyond you as well.

Didn't you say you don't want to talk to me anymore? Hypocrite.

I was focusing on Discord. Wow so they have a few friends and some annoying little kids more annoying than the main stereotype machines. All our criticisms where wrong! I'm sorry but i'm not joining your "Herd" i'll be watching good tv rather than a cartoon that has the same message as thousands of kids shows before it. Also i like how you don't address my point about them stripping a character of what made them interesting in favor of the "FRIENDSHIP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER" message instead deciding to insult me once again. Get off your high horse (no pun intended) and engage in reasonable debate rather than referring back to insults.

And just to clarify so you cant strawman me. One i know FRIENDSHIP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER isnt the only message the show spits out. Two I know that they have a few friends outside their group. Three I'm gonna make this clear. You. Are. A. Bully. You fling insults at me then say "Oh no me insulting your intelligence is beyond the moral superiority of a brony. You must not know what an insult is!" Saying someone cant read and saying they dont know what an example means is insulting. You Sir/Madam need to realize not everyone needs to like your precious show about pwetty ponies and fwendship.

1: You said "oooh one episode", when I put at least three examples. 2: I don't give a damn if you join the "Herd", I'm not a brony. 3: Your personal opinion doesn't matter where Discord is concerned as I was merely giving an example to jippy6, not how much I liked the development. And I think the opposite. I think he can be as amusing as a good character as well. 4: I am debating reasonably, as opposed to you who is just lashing out in rage and completely misunderstanding everything the opposition says.

5: I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to jippy6. 6: If you don't want people to "insult" you, stop giving them fuel for it. IE: Start reading what the opposition actually says instead of reading what you want to read.

One.Ever heard of sarcasm? Two.If you're not a brony whats your problem with me disliking the show? Three. I think you're wrong. 4. No rage here perfectly calm enjoying a nice cup of tea watching Only Fools and Horses with my window open and a nice breeze. 5. If you post a comment on my review i am well within my rights to respond. 6. I want you to say sorry for calling me stupid. I am sorry for "lashing out"

One.Ever heard of sarcasm? Two.If you're not a brony whats your problem with me disliking the show? Three. I think you're wrong. 4. No rage here perfectly calm enjoying a nice cup of tea watching Only Fools and Horses with my window open and a nice breeze. 5. If you post a comment on my review i am well within my rights to respond. 6. I want you to say sorry for calling me stupid. I am sorry for "lashing out"

1: And how am I supposed to know it's sarcasm? Link to Sarcasm Mode if you can't pull it off properly. 2: I have no problem with people disliking the show, I have problems with people making lousy and wrong arguments. 3: As I've said, it doesn't matter what you think, as I was just putting an example for jippy6. What's so hard to get about that? 5: You seriously don't get it, do you? Because I wasn't responding to you, your whole "you can't strawman me" becomes utterly meaningless. Because I wasn't responding to you. 6: Sorry.

One im relativity new here and don't know how to link to tropes. Two So you think the characters are masterfully written and have no sue ish qualities whatsoever? Or do you admit the characters can be somewhat poorly written. Im thinking more the pink one and "Fluttershy" more than any of the others. 3: So surely it doesnt matter what you think either? Four. You and others have strawmanned me in the past merely taking precautions. Five. Apology accepted.

One im relativity new here and don't know how to link to tropes. Two So you think the characters are masterfully written and have no sue ish qualities whatsoever? Or do you admit the characters can be somewhat poorly written. Im thinking more the pink one and "Fluttershy" more than any of the others. 3: So surely it doesnt matter what you think either? Four. You and others have strawmanned me in the past merely taking precautions. Five. Apology accepted.

1: That's no excuse, find a different way to make it more obvious. 2: It's almost like you didn't read my comments on here (which would explain things). 3: -sigh- I was making an example, as I've said before. Opinions don't matter here, I was merely stating my own in response to yours. 4: -siiiiigh- That's one of the poorest excuses I have ever heard. Just admit that you completely missed the point. (taking precautions even though nobody talked to you? Suuuuuure.)

Now im going to the hospital to visit my granddad so i'll be a while before my next response

Now im going to the hospital to visit my granddad so i'll be a while before my next response

If you submit a response, try hitting the "submit" button only once. Those double posts are pretty irritating.

So...no love for bad ponies like the Flim-Flam brothers, then? I guess that couldn't be helped. They seemed impossible (read: not easy) to convert to friendshipping. Um, bye Trixie? Smoke and mirrors and awkward exits make for the best of new friends, right? And what about the Cutie Mark Crusaders?

Discord's 'redemption' was ham-fisted if anything else. Oh yeah, get the big guy to say the series' tag line because that shows how much he's learned of friendship (from ONE PONY). Not even the PPG villains' characters were thrown under the bus like this. In this case, of course, the villains of Fi M, if they don't seem like ones to surrender to the power of rainbow-forged friendship, get their characters thrown under the horsecart. Way to go, Hasbro. Way to go.

What're you talking about? Flim and Flam were complete jerks who attempted to drive the Apple family out of town, so why should they try to "convert" them? Trixie was at least forgiven in Magic Duel. The Cutie Mark Crusaders befriended Babs Seed, someone who bullied them for an entire episode. Do you seriously want to see every single antagonist get befriended? That's a pretty bad message if you ask me.

Again, your opinion on it doesn't matter in this context, it's merely an example.

Because love and tolerate? It would send a better message to the kids. You know, the target audience?

For that matter, what about the central theme of this entire show? I'll give you a hint, it starts with the letter F.

("drive the Apple family out of town" After the Apples decided not to take their offer of 25%, which they could have haggled them for as it's THEIR farm, and after they showed up with a machine that could solve everyone's cider-supply problem, and make Rainbow Dash happy too. Trixie learned not to come back to Ponyville, that's for sure. Babs Seed was awful and learned nothing in return, esp. when she BULLIED two bullies at the end.)

An example of what? Again with what? How does my opinion carry less weight than yours?

No, it wouldn't. I don't see going out of your way to befriend people who were awful to you as a good message at all. They would have to apologize first. Friendship doesn't mean that you're supposed to befriend everyone who acts like a jerk to you.

(Yes, an offer they deemed unfair, which made sense as they provided all the apples. Well duh, since she enslaved the entire town. Naturally people wouldn't want her there (though let's see if a future episode includes her again). Babs Seed was scared and totally learned her lesson at the end. She was protecting her new friends by threatening two jerks with telling their parents. If you really think that's bullying, then you have some serious problems.

An example of befriending an antagonist. It doesn't matter whether you liked it or not, the fact is that there are examples of exactly that. That's it. Your opinion doesn't matter more or less than my opinion.

Somewhere in Heaven, Jesus is crying.

That's how business transactions roll, and nothing good came out of the sheer stubbornness of the Apple family. And that's a pretty unfair way to treat the possessed magician.

She didn't learn anything. She just automatically stopped as soon as her secret was revealed. That's all it took. There was no lesson learned here. And when you do a 180 on the very ponies whom you sided with to avoid becoming a target, you might as well be a bully for life.

Examples of bad characterization? Got it.

Except that they won, and then had more than enough cider for everyone. Worked out pretty well. It's Trixie's fault for using a dangerous artifact in the first place.

Yes, she did learn. She didn't stop when her secret was revealed, she stopped when she realized that the Cutie Mark Crusaders actually protected her even though she was awful to them for the whole episode. Her excuse for having been a bully herself was because she was scared of being bullied again like in her hometown. And again, saying "Stop being a jerk or I'll tell your parents." is not bullying.

Giving out bad cider and NOT handing out the good cider always helps the 'bad guys' lose their credibility fast and easy. If not for Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash would have missed out, AGAIN. What about next year's cider supply? And how does blaming Trixie make a good point?

If that's so, then can we also tell Babs's parents/sister about what she was doing to the CMC as well for her due punishment?

Thanks for agreeing. I assume Applejack will ask her friends to help her in the next year. Because it's Trixie's fault in the first place, so no one can blame Ponyville for not wanting her in the city. Not that we know that, since Trixie disappeared on her own.

I assume that happened off-screen, but even if that's not the case, Babs Seed forgave the CMC's for their own mean prank just as easily. And she did protect them from their own bullies.

"Somewhere in Heaven, Jesus is crying."

"Somewhere in Heaven, Jesus is crying."

He can cry all he wants. You shouldn't become friends with people who treat you badly unless they reform.

I have now edited my review taking into account some of the criticism i received and hopefully my views are now clearer to those confused by my wording of the original show.

Show review urgh need sleep

Show review urgh need sleep

What the fuck did I just go through... ?

Oh wait, that's right. Oh Internet, you're so crazy.

You went through a common problem I'm finding on this site. People who can't review.

Actually i was suffering from severe insomnia at the time the review was posted. I recently managed to get some sleeping pills and have been sleeping better leading to Kay4today and i burying the hatchet after mutual apologies for our rudeness toward one another. I have since editied the review which outlines my actual non insomnis influenced thoughts on the show. So before you insult me or anyone else on the internet i would respectfully ask you find out why the acted the way they did.

Again you take everything as an insult. Also this is not directed at you specifically but can people please stop with the Lame Excuse of I was tired/drunk/not on my meds, etc. this is not an assignment, you can wait all you want until you're in a better condition to make the review(s).

Sir Insomnia isnt simple tiredness. It is the sheer inability to sleep. For me this can last for days on end before i finally get some rest. Secondary effects for me at least include massive headaches/migranes that i often find writing be it stories poems or in this case a poorly thought out review help distract me from said headaches. The reason i edited the review is after going back reading through my comments and the review i realized how little sense i was making so i edited the review. Writing is just how i deal with the headaches as most painkillers don't fully deal with the headaches. So in order to be in a better condition i write then when in a better condition i edit.

That sound like your making it everyone else's problem too, if you have this so figure out, then why didn't you just write down the review and not post it, you didn't even make any disclaimer. After all, you were chewing qtjinla for not doing the extra work s/he shouldn't have to do just to cater to your case. You also knowing full well of your situation you still went on with the debates. It was more passable when as said, it seemed like you were ignorant of it, but if you're aware of it and still continue its more like oh well everyone else should just deal with me, even if it takes an over 100 comment discussion.

Thank you Marcie, that'll be all for now.

qtjinla >>implying that high-quality reviews are found on tvtropes

I'm giving the tropers the benefit of the doubt.

I think its funny how some people are still bitching about pinkie hogging all the cider from Dash. Oh boo hoo my waifu didnt get her cider i am going to throw a temper tantrum and bash on poor pinkie over it. Tell me again why i should care? its a stupid kids show characters are always doing stupid shit to each other so stop crying over it. I just don't see the cider thing has a big deal I do the same thing to my friends when i grab the last can of beer i brag to them how i got hte last can and they laugh at me. So why cant Dash fanboys laugh at pinkie hogging the cider from Dash? Oh wait because their precious waifu is so persecuted.

I like how you accuse the people who are mad over that of being "Dash fanboys," when you rush to the defense of Pinkie Pie in any review that says anything remotely negative about her.

Is this show the most reviewed work on TV Tropes? Man...every day there's more.

Well people love to hate on her for stupid reasons ok? I really do think the whole cider thing is a silly thing to get upset over since it was only friendly teasing among friends.

First off, Pinkie Pie was pretty oblivious to Rainbow Dash's pain. Writers have a habit of having her be ignorant to other's feelings. Second, Dash was so desperate for cider that she started eating dirt. If you'd tease your friends under similar circumstances, it'd make you a jerk.

I hate to revert to old habits, but knock it off. Honestly, let this pile of crap sink out of sight and never let it bob to the surface of the Review section again.

Like many other cartoons it does kinda overplay the Innocently Insensitive humor a tad, it's not to near sociopathic levels like Spongebob, but after a while you can start to think the characters are just moronically inconsiderate, especially Pinkie and Twilight.

I think the show tends to garner approval because, while it uses standard cartoon archetypes, it does tend to subvert or deconstruct them around to make things fresh. It also often deconstructs well hated broken tropes like The Complainer Is Always Wrong. It's not to say it doesn't fall to common problems a lot of times, but for every broken story there's a cathartic reversal.