Discussion Main / OurElvesAreBetter

TRS decision to disambiguate: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1579303191085360300

So which one of the categories would Eldar belong in? Because I've heard the term be used for wood elves, dark elves, and high elves.

", who, Tolkien being a devout Christian, in his works were meant to represent what humans would be like had we remained sinless and Unfallen™. Deprived of these theological undertones, the modern image of Elves has since lost its original context.note However, Tolkien's Elves were not in the least snooty or arrogant about being better, as that would be a sin, now wouldn't it?" Um, what? Not only is this almost certainly untrue (Tolkien claimed not to write allegory into his Legendarium, a good number of Tolkien's elves did a huge sin and didn't stop being elves, there is barely any mention of any sort of "original sin" in Tolkien's Legendarium (and it was a failing of some men, not all), plenty of Tolkien's elves are assholes (and a few are down-right villains), and ILÚVATAR ARGUABLY PREFERS MEN), but it also seems entirely unrelated to the article? This just seems to be a random unrelated attempt at character assassination awkwardly shoved into the article, especially the snarky parts of the note. An actual description of how generic elves tend to differ from the Tolkien's version would fit better, but I feel I'm too emotionally close to this to trust myself with that. Instead I'm just going to replace everything in that paragraph from "who" on with "however Tolkien's elves differ in several ways from the common modern conception of elves which they inspired." in a few days, unless someone provides a good reason not to before I get to it. I'll also still link to https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnbuiltTrope somewhere in there, probably with "differ in several ways".

I see High/Wood elves more in High fantasy and the Fair Folk more in Urban fantasy. Why is that? Why don't you have more Tolkien or Dn D-style elves in Urban fantasy?

Am I the only one here who imagines Rock Elves sounding like Trans-Siberian Orchestra or Yngwe Malmsteen? ^_^

I couldn't help but notice that the page has been update to include a "Sea Elf" classification but I have to ask is it really necessary? The definition given is little more than Wood Elves but underwater and the only examples that mention Sea Elves are Dungeons & Dragons and Warhammer.

Either more work needs to be done with the Sea Elf classification or it should be removed.

I have touched up the bit on Warcraft Elves a bit. Is it fine like this, or does anyone beleive it requires more sprucing up? Some new lore was to be added with recent confirmations of stuff and so

I removed "Tolkien's Noldor were this type. " from the second paragraph, the "High Elves" for the following reasons: we know nothing of their choice of colours save from the heraldic shields of some houses (which are just bright colours) and the Noldor favoured practically any weapon, save the axe and hammer - Tolkien's Elves also did not wield scimitars, as that was an orcish design. Cleaner cities? Don't know about that... when Erëndil came to visit, he was covered in dust from walking in Tirion, the capital of the Noldor. They are also stronger than humans and dwarves, though whether this is inherent or from the Light of the Two Trees, I don't know - and the greatest fighter of all was a Noldor named Fingolfin (who fought with Morgoth). So they aren't all that willowy. Finally, YES, a lot of Noldor are blind narcissists who are utter bastards... and then there are those who aren't. If you've read the Silmarillion, you'll see how the Noldor evolve and only those who literally cannot go back on their word (sons of Fëanor) are the only ones who remain as they were in the beginning.

That was a good article I really enjoyed it. Elves are my favorite kind of humanoid. I especially like them when they are beautiful and refined. I prefer the tall serious elves, like in Lord of the Rings and World of Warcraft. I don’t like the small funny-looking elves as much, like in Christmas or Keebler. It was interesting to learn about the different kinds of elves in modern fantasy. I like the high elves the best. World of Warcraft has two main kinds of elves. The night elves are noble hybrids of wood elves and dark elves. The blood elves are corrupt high elves. I love both kinds. Not only are they beautiful, but they also have breathtakingly gorgeous architecture and forests. It is cool how their attitudes have been inverted. I am not comfortable with light skinned races being good, and dark skinned races being bad. It sounds racist.

It is very surprising how some humanoids are described as elf-like. If something isn’t pretty enough or human-like enough, I don’t recognize them as such. The one possible exception is Dobby. There have been other elf-like races in World of Warcraft. Tolls are very shocking example. They are so different from elves, because they are so ugly and uncouth. I always thought the Horde version of elves were not trolls but Blood Elves. Drenai are also shocking. They totally do not have the elvish look. Yet they sort of look like a cross between a night elf and a satyr. Drenai do have beautiful architecture and forests like elves. My favorite playable races in World of Warcraft are Blood Elves, Night Elves and Dreneai. They are all elflike. It is very surprising that the Na’vi in Avatar are elf-like. They are too alien looking. They really look like Drenai.

If one could apply the idea of elves loosely, I think Lucius Malfoy could be an example. He is one of the bad guys in the Harry Potter series. In the movies he is a man with long blond hair. It is rare that a human would be like that. However it is common for an elf. A famous example is Legolas in the Lord of the Rings movies. Lucius has a nasty personality that does resemble an elf’s bad side. He is snobby and arrogant. He thinks that his kind of magic users, purebloods, are better than others. To top it off Lucius even had a house-elf, named Dobby. He reminds me of an elf so much , I like to call him the elf guy.

The finale was great. Humans are the most elfin kind of ape in real life. It is very nice that orangutans, gorillas and chimpanzees help connect humanity to the rest of the animal kingdom. However they have struck me as being unattractive looking. This may be due to the uncanny valley. Maybe that’s why elves are so appealing to me and other people. They are a more extreme kind of human, that is better in the niche. Maybe in the future humans will evolve into more elfin creatures. Yet I doubt that the ears will get pointier.

I would have to say that the High Elf/Wood Elf conception of Elves is actually as old or older than the Fair Folk conception of elves. One of the earliest known literary works to reference Elves is the Old Norse Poetic and Prose Edda which is a compilation of formerly oral stories of Norse mythology written in the 13th Century where the elves are human sized, generally benevolent and essentially demigods. The fair folk description is a result of the coming of Christianity where the elves who where a central part of the old religion came to be seen as dangerous and malevolent as well as losing most of their power. This loss of power is all seen in their loss of size. Tolkien was not the originator of his concept of his elves but just a promoter of the old Norse concept of an Elf (as he was familiar with the old texts such as the Eddas).

Moved all this here from the Headscratcher's page:

• So...is this an Our Monsters Are Different page for elves, a "Sue Species" page, or both? (If it's supposed to be the former, someone needs to YKTTW the latter.)
  • It's the former. Mary Suetopia covers entire species of Mary Sues.
    • Mary Suetopia doesn't seem to be about "Sue species" at all; it's about "Sue governments." And Our Elves Are Better is currently listed as the page for "Sue species." I think we may need a new trope...
    • Not Sue Governments, Sue Societies. That covers both individual governments (like American society) and entire species (like human society as a whole).

Did we ever sort this out?