The entry about 300 makes mention of the Spartans pratcing pederastry. But isnt the nature of it unclear with contradictory accounts going back to their time even?
The Monkey Flys at Midnight and the Crow Dies at Dawn
Have gotten support from three fellow Tropers at ATT to axe the "Media in General/Common Persons" folder on this Trope. Also received no objections when I re-posted announcing the support received and intention to cut. Link follows:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=93606&type=att
The post further references the threads with support for the idea.
Please do not recreate this folder unless there is significant discussion about the issue and broad consensus is reached at ATT or a similar discussion forum.
Edited by BoltDMC
I would like to dispute one of the bullet-points in the 300 entry. Below is what the bullet point reads:
- Leonidas scorns Athenians as "boy-lovers," but pederasty was also practiced in Sparta.
The reason I am disputing it is that Xenophon, a man who was actually alive during the time of the Spartans and who lived among them for a time, states that the Spartans did not practice pederasty:
"The customs instituted by Lycurgus were opposed to all of these. If someone, being himself an honest man, admired a boy's soul and tried to make of him an ideal friend without reproach and to associate with him, he approved, and believed in the excellence of this kind of training. But if it was clear that the attraction lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connexion as an abomination; and thus he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other."
I'm more inclined to believe Xenophon than someone who lived long after the Spartans died, especially if later authors are working off of generalizations (i.e. other Greek States did it so Sparta must as well). In fact, Xenophon addresses that too:
"I am not surprised, however, that people refuse to believe this. For in many states the laws are not opposed to the indulgence of these appetites."
Edited by Timjames98 Hide / Show Replies
Here is my source. Copy it and paste it into the search engine.
1st Quote:
2nd Quote:
If you disagree then please also include scholarly sources. Also lets keep this a civil discussion (i.e. no snark or personal insults).
Edited by Timjames98
Because sometimes what the "Hero" is can be doubtable.
Is Stalin a hero? To some yes, to others it would be this trope. Many people would see things differently.
The essence of this trope, though, is that the work ignores or even makes up facts in order to make them seem like the hero, which is, well, factual.
Edited by 216.99.32.44 I'm a Troper!!!
Dunkies addict
Including Jesus, Mohammad, and Siddhartha on this page just seems like a Bad Idea.
My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger. Hide / Show Replies
Does this entry stay?
- And also, the fact that Columbus basically started slavery in the New World(which would earn him a stiff prison sentence from Spain, who sponsored his voyages) is almost never mentioned.
I think this trope could use some serious organization, but I'm not sure how.
Should the fiction and in-universe examples be separated into the usual media categories, with the present entries being split up as necessary? The only way I can see of sorting the real-life section is either alphabetically or by country.
Just looking for some feedback before a start is made, considering the number of examples that would need sorting.
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I've sorted fictional and in-universe examples into their media categories, but have the same question regarding the real life section.
Personally, I'd go with alphabetical sorting.
Another note on the Assassins Creed ting, the Templar and Assassins where actually allied at many times. Indeed actual Conspiracy Theorists tend to view them as branches of the same Conspiracy (On some cases the Templars as successors of the Assassins), not adversaries.
For Samson and Delilah, the Bible doesn't tell us what Delilah other at all. I could argue De Mille gives her a V Illian Upgrade by making it same like her Relationship with Samson began from being sent to Seduce, (something other Delilah depictions share), when in fact the Philistines approached her after they where already together, and threatened her as well as bribing here.
For IN Universe examples isn't Dune a text book example of both Hero and Villain upgrades? I've always felt that was largely the point of the Irulen chapter prologues.
Since Ron the Death Eater and Historical Villain Upgrade are said to be related on their pages, would it be ok to relate this trope with Draco in Leather Pants?
Edited by 674J
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Real Life?
, started by Tannhaeuser on Dec 10th 2010 at 9:57:05 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman