Franchise Shin Megami Tensei Discussion

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HalberdStopCrashing
Topic
03:47:28 AM May 29th 2015
edited by HalberdStopCrashing
"Shin Megami Tensei (translated True Goddess Reincarnation), also known as Mega Ten, is a long-running series of JRPG Dungeon Crawlers and spinoffs developed and published by Atlus. In Japan, it has been a direct competitor to Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy for decades, while in the west it only gained real popularity with Persona 3 in 2006, despite numerous localizations going all the way back to the 1990s."

This really riles up my autism. Megami Tensei and Shin Megami Tensei are NOT the same thing. Persona is NOT a spinoff of SMT, it's a spinoff of MT. Megami Tensei encompasses SMT, Persona, Digital Devil Saga, Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, etc. Due to Atlus rebranding many of the Megami Tensei spinoffs in the west as SMT (erroneously), this error seems to have stuck and from the way MT is talked about throughout this entire wiki, this page included, it's as though MT is only slang for SMT and it is the mother series, when in reality it's not. Calling Persona an SMT game is like calling Sa Ga a Final Fantasy game because it was called that when it was first localized. They're different series. Heck, even Atlus has stopped misbranding Persona as Shin Megami Tensei in the west with the release of Golden.

May we please change this page—and the MT references throughout the wiki as a whole—to reflect this? Thank you.
ashlay
12:58:29 PM Jun 25th 2015
edited by ashlay
While Shin Megami Tensei I and II are spinoffs / psudeo-remakes of Megami Tensei I and II, considering Atlus made SMT but didn't make MT, it's a little weird to call all their subsequent spinoff games spinoffs of MT.

All of of Atlus' spinoff titles are using the SMT monster designs, character interpretations, and battle mechanics, not the MT ones. The Japanese Portmanteau Series Nickname being MegaTen is just a quirk of language at best.

So if you want to call SMT a spinoff of MT, totally fine. And if you want to change the namespace / franchise naming to "Megami Tensei", fine too (though also a ton of work for in essence changing "Super Mario Bros" to "Mario Bros"). But all the other games are taking content from where Atlus started with the series, and not so much the works created before their time. Honestly seems no different than calling Persona 4 Arena for instance a spinoff of Persona 4.
CloverGoldngreen
Topic
10:15:55 PM Dec 10th 2014
Can Informed Species qualify as a trope for the SMT franchise? Some of these demons featured in the series look almost nothing like the mythical beings they're based on. Case in point, the centaur as it appears in SMT 4. Or how about the many demons under dragon, snake, or drake races that don't even look remotely reptilian?
SeptimusHeap
03:00:36 AM Dec 11th 2014
That trope is for references to real species, not fictional ones. I am thinking no.
Larkmarn
05:22:23 AM Dec 11th 2014
matteste
Topic
08:53:56 AM Nov 9th 2014
Should we add a new folder to the main page for print works in the series? Such as the original novel, Quantum Devil Saga and the various Persona manga etc.
ergeis
Topic
04:04:31 AM Oct 10th 2014
Should tropes for the first Megami Tensei go in the Novels page or its own?
SeptimusHeap
05:33:26 AM Oct 10th 2014
The work that Wikipedia calls Digital Devil Story? That one's got a page here.
Larkmarn
05:53:35 AM Oct 10th 2014
I assume he means the first Megami Tensei game which is loosely based on the novel. We've got a page for the novel, but not the game, it seems.

If it has tropes separate from the main franchise or the novel, then yeah, it probably should get its own page.
TytanHavok
Topic
06:27:09 PM Sep 11th 2013
Under "Turns Red" a cheat for Digital Devil Saga 1 (That supposedly lets you choose any skill in the game's script) is mentioned, but when I look on google about it, nothing relevant comes up.

So, what i'm asking is.. Does this thing even exist?
CainegMord
Topic
11:46:36 PM Oct 2nd 2012
Could someone make a "MAJIN TENSEI page? I have some tropes for it but I don't understand how to make new pages.
Materioptikon
07:08:54 PM Oct 10th 2013
Done.
Silverevilchao
Topic
12:03:15 AM Jun 24th 2011
Why is Catherine linked on this page? It's not a Mega Ten game. It doesn't even have "Shin Megami Tensei" added to its US title like the other Mega Ten games.

If no one comes up with a good reason, I'm going to take it off the list. It makes no sense, like linking every Square Enix title on the main Final Fantasy page.
ashlay
02:41:40 PM Aug 23rd 2011
edited by ashlay
It has Astaroth/Ishtar in it. It involves supernatural phenomenon and demons in general. It has a Law/Neutral/Chaos Alignment system that affects your ending.

There are various references to Persona 3 and Persona 4 in the game. There's music from Nocturne, Persona 3 & 4 and DDS 1 & 2 in it. It makes a cameo of it's own in Persona 3 Portable.

Atlus USA's decision to attach Shin Megami Tensei for name recognition purposes is a questionable justification. The creators of these games don't consider Persona, Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner, Devil Survivor and so on to be Shin Megami Tensei games, and in fact they don't feature the "Shin Megami Tensei" label on those games' materials at all in the original Japanese releases.

In short, if we're going to include all those other non-SMT games on the list, I don't see why we shouldn't include a game that features similar themes, similar characters, and on top of that straight out references to other Mega Ten titles. Isn't it of value to let people know that this game has connections to the series?
VentusKnight
07:54:38 PM Aug 23rd 2011
Demikids for the GBA doesn't contain the Shin Megami Tensei prefix either, yet are part of the series. The only difference in Catherine's sake is that it's not an RPG of any kind.
ashlay
06:03:46 PM Aug 24th 2011
edited by ashlay
Yep, Demikids actually is a part of the Shin Megami Tensei series. The original title for that line is "Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Children" with the two games that became Demikids featuring the subtitles "Book of Darkness" and "Book of Light".

Again, Atlus USA's choice of names is a poor criteria.
Prfnoff
06:37:27 PM Jun 4th 2012
The original Japanese release of Strange Journey did have the Shin Megami Tensei prefix. That is why I moved it to VideoGame.Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey.
ashlay
06:27:19 AM Jun 8th 2012
edited by ashlay
In development it was actually SMT IV, but evenutally they changed their mind about the title for various reasons. Be funny if the new SMT IV got its name changed too, and they just keep designing a new SMT IV every few years.

Mistermister
Topic
12:32:59 PM Jan 1st 2011
Can't we change the laconic page for this series? I mean, there's much more to this series than the difficulty.
etliay
Topic
11:28:28 PM Apr 7th 2010
We should have an :IMAGINE page.
BOXN
Topic
12:30:09 PM Mar 21st 2010
How can you get Loki or Joan of Arc in SMT 3?
Materioptikon
12:12:59 PM Jan 8th 2012
Jean of Arc doesn't appear in Nocturne. Loki comes as a Tyrant Race demon. Easiest fusion recipe would involve a Fury Race demon and a Vile Race one; try several combinations.
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