History Franchise / ShinMegamiTensei

16th Jan '17 5:14:32 AM Cryocene
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* OurDemonsAreDifferent: The definition is as broad as possible: basically, legendary monsters, mythical deities, and even certain historical humans of ''all'' types--good, evil, ''whatever''--they're all called demons here. Even the angels!

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* OurDemonsAreDifferent: The definition is as broad as possible: basically, legendary monsters, mythical deities, and even certain historical humans of ''all'' types--good, evil, ''whatever''--they're all called demons here. Even here, even the angels!angels. [[ShownTheirWork Which is actually the original definition of the word 'daemon', anyway.]]
16th Jan '17 5:02:58 AM Cryocene
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** Lucifer is occasionally portrayed as an AffablyEvil AntiVillain, and indeed, some of the game seem to indicate that Lucifer/Chaos route is the best choice to make, since YHVH and the angels almost always have the policy of KillEmAll and start over whenever things look like they're getting out of hand. Even when God is defeated, he usually gives a speech along the lines of "As long as humanity is too weak to look for their own answers, their weakness will create a belief in me that brings me back to life again and again and again! MWAHAHAAH!" Though this tends to be true onlu in games that aren't as directly law versus chaos, and Lucifer is always a SocialDarwinist ManipulativeBastard through and through no matter what game he appears in.

to:

** Lucifer is occasionally portrayed as an AffablyEvil AntiVillain, and indeed, some of the game seem to indicate that Lucifer/Chaos route is the best choice to make, since YHVH and the angels almost always have the policy of KillEmAll and start over whenever things look like they're getting out of hand. Even when God is defeated, he usually gives a speech along the lines of "As long as humanity is too weak to look for their own answers, their weakness will create a belief in me that brings me back to life again and again and again! MWAHAHAAH!" MWAHAHAAH!"
***
Though this tends to be true onlu only in games that aren't as directly law versus chaos, and Lucifer is always a SocialDarwinist ManipulativeBastard through and through no matter what game he appears in.
16th Jan '17 5:00:13 AM Cryocene
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** ''Shin Megami Tensei'': Michael

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** ''Shin Megami Tensei'': MichaelMichael.



** ''Shin Megami Tensei IV'': [[spoiler:Either Gabriel, who later becomes a part of Merkabah, or Mastema, though if it is Mastema, then YHVH is actually good this time and Gabriel/Merkabah is the Big Bad for Law. In Blasted Tokyo, it's Pluto and, later, the Ancient of Days.]]

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** ''Shin Megami Tensei IV'': [[spoiler:Either Gabriel, who later becomes a part of Merkabah, or Mastema, though if it is Mastema, the latter, then YHVH is actually good this time around, and Gabriel/Merkabah Gabriel is the Big Bad for Law. In Blasted Tokyo, it's Pluto and, later, Pluto, followed by the Ancient of Days.Days after the former's defeat.]]



** Indeed, many of the game seem to indicate that Lucifer / Chaos is the best choice to make, since almost always YHVH and the angels have the policy of KillEmAll and start over whenever things look like they're getting out of hand. Even when you kill God, he usually gives a speech along the lines of "As long as humanity is too weak to look for their own answers, their weakness will create a belief in me that brings me back to life again and again and again! MWAHAHAAH!"
*** At least in the games for SNES (in which the Law-Neutral-Chaos system possibly plays the most prominent role) Chaos is not shown as the best choice. For example, in the original Shin Megami Tensei many traditionally heroic choices (choosing to give money to the beggar, choosing to spare the life of local dictator after defeating him and his demon in battle, choosing to save the female protagonist in the dream despite the apparent risks posed by armed guards) tend to be considered Lawful decisions. Also, one of the downsides of pure Chaos is the possibility of sufficiently strong and ruthless individual/party becoming an oppressor (as shown in the case of [[spoiler:Ozawa]] in the world AfterTheEnd). Ironically, the whole "might makes right" issue may be one of the main reasons behind YHVH's position in the continuity of Shin Megami Tensei [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI I]]-[[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII II]] and Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE. Also, the depiction of Lucifer in [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne Nocturne/Lucifer's Call]] may be too ambiguous to be considered either the best ''or'' the worst possible choice. One of several games in the series where Lucifer is shown clearly in the positive light is the second game in the series, Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei II [[note]](while in the direct romanization of the Japanese title "Story" would be replaced with "Monogatari", it seems that "Story" is the official choice of word when writing the title in the Latin/Roman alphabet)[[/note]] for Famicom/NES.
** In Devil Survivor he's much nicer: only institutes the lockdown at the insistence of the angels, and gives humanity a seven day grace period to prove themselves when the angels wanted to go full-on HappinessIsMandatory from the get-go, and even ordered them not to interfere unless specifically asked. But even when he's (comparatively) nice he's still a jerk. To wit: He intentionally set Naoya ([[spoiler: the Biblical Cain]]) up [[CainAndAbel to murder his brother]], [[spoiler: Abel]], in order to make the latter a martyr, then promptly cursed Naoya with [[WhoWantsToLiveForever eternal life]]. He's more than willing to follow through on the angels' threats if the lockdown is breached, even though this means condemning the entire human race for the actions of a few.

to:

** Indeed, many of the game seem to indicate that Lucifer / Chaos is the best choice to make, since almost always YHVH and the angels have the policy of KillEmAll and start over whenever things look like they're getting out of hand. Even when you kill God, he usually gives a speech along the lines of "As long as humanity is too weak to look for their own answers, their weakness will create a belief in me that brings me back to life again and again and again! MWAHAHAAH!"
*** At least in the games for SNES (in which the Law-Neutral-Chaos system possibly plays the most prominent role) Chaos is not shown as the best choice. For example, in the original Shin Megami Tensei many traditionally heroic choices (choosing to give money to the beggar, choosing to spare the life of local dictator after defeating him and his demon in battle, choosing to save the female protagonist in the dream despite the apparent risks posed by armed guards) tend to be considered Lawful decisions. Also, one of the downsides of pure Chaos is the possibility of sufficiently strong and ruthless individual/party becoming an oppressor (as shown in the case of [[spoiler:Ozawa]] in the world AfterTheEnd). Ironically, the whole "might makes right" issue may be one of the main reasons behind YHVH's position in the continuity of Shin Megami Tensei [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI I]]-[[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII II]] and Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE. Also, the depiction of Lucifer in [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne Nocturne/Lucifer's Call]] may be too ambiguous to be considered either the best ''or'' the worst possible choice. One of several games in the series where Lucifer is shown clearly in the positive light is the second game in the series, Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei II [[note]](while in the direct romanization of the Japanese title "Story" would be replaced with "Monogatari", it seems that "Story" is the official choice of word when writing the title in the Latin/Roman alphabet)[[/note]] for Famicom/NES.
** In Devil Survivor he's much nicer: only institutes the lockdown at the insistence of the angels, and gives humanity a seven day grace period to prove themselves when the angels wanted to go full-on HappinessIsMandatory from the get-go, and even ordered them not to interfere unless specifically asked. But even when he's (comparatively) nice he's still a jerk. To wit: He intentionally set Naoya ([[spoiler: the ([[spoiler:the Biblical Cain]]) up [[CainAndAbel to murder his brother]], [[spoiler: Abel]], [[spoiler:Abel]], in order to make the latter a martyr, then promptly cursed Naoya with [[WhoWantsToLiveForever eternal life]]. He's more than willing to follow through on the angels' threats if the lockdown is breached, even though this means condemning the entire human race for the actions of a few.



** Since the series occurs over multiple alternate universes, all of these interpretations of God are true. This is because YHVH (and II's Sabaoth, Shaddai, and Elohim, Nocturne's Kagutsuchi, Strange Journey's Demiurge, and IV's Ancient of Days) are aspects of The Creator/Great Will, appearing across the alternate dimensions. There are even multiple forms of the same avatar: as ''Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey'' and ''Shin Megami Tensei IV'' take place in different universes, then there are multiple Demiurge's. The ''Megami Tensei II'' YHVH outright says that he's one of many avatars.
** ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'', the tyranny of YHVH has inspired several gods from other pantheons to band together to take him out, though their plans for humanity are far from benevolent. It's eventually revealed that [[spoiler:YHVH oppressing humanity has caused the Axiom, the embodiment of reality itself, to create two messiahs to take him out]].

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** Since the series occurs over multiple alternate universes, all of these interpretations of God are true. This is because YHVH (and II's Sabaoth, Shaddai, and Elohim, Nocturne's Kagutsuchi, Strange Journey's Demiurge, and IV's Ancient of Days) are aspects of The Creator/Great Great Will, appearing across the alternate dimensions. There are even multiple forms of the same avatar: as ''Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey'' and ''Shin Megami Tensei IV'' take place in different universes, then there are multiple Demiurge's. The ''Megami Tensei II'' YHVH outright says that he's one of many avatars.
** ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'', the tyranny of YHVH has inspired several gods from other pantheons to band together to take him out, though their plans for humanity are far from benevolent. It's eventually revealed that [[spoiler:YHVH This trope is eventually [[spoiler:subverted as the YHVH who have been oppressing humanity has caused os a rogue avatar of the Axiom, the Axiom/Great Will (the embodiment of reality itself, to create two itself), which has gone against its wishes. The Axiom itself is benevolent, as it has been creating various messiahs throughout the multiverse to take him YHVH out]].



* NoSell:
** Many enemies will have immunities stacked up to ungodly levels. Save up enough money, experience and level up the right demons to EliteTweak your own, though rarely to enemy levels. Demons have very wide resistance variations, so some demons may come off as counters for other, more troublesome demons. Though the games permit enough skill customization so that enough effort can effectively render any glaring weakness moot, the games being NintendoHard means that, of course, [[ThatOneBoss some bosses]] will still make your life hell unless you completely and utterly overpower them, [[SerialEscalation and sometimes even that is not enough.]] A prime example is the final boss of ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'', who has an action that will completely NoSell ''literally'' '''everything''' you can throw at it until it decides it has had enough fun staring at you with that SlasherSmile.
** [[spoiler: The scripted fight that ends the game, however, has our voiceless protagonist gain enough power to NoSell '''death itself'''.]]
** Even worse with this, however, is [[NighInvulnerable Beldr]] from ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor''. Even on a NewGamePlus, ''everything'' you throw at him will fail, all the time, except his ''lone'' WeaksauceWeakness, getting punched in the face with a ''cellphone strap.'' This essentially makes every single spell and every single ''character'' in your entire team useless, '''except''' for the "Devil's Fuge" attack which replaces the main character's physical attack. [[NintendoHard Good luck.]] A lesser example from the same game is the Battle Aura auto skill, which nullifies all attacks that deal less than 50 damage.

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* NoSell:
NoSell: In many ways. Null means this, Absorb means this ''plus'' recovery, Reflect means this plus your opponent taking damage you should suffer.
** Many enemies will have immunities these stacked up to ungodly levels. Save up enough money, experience and level up the right demons to EliteTweak your own, though rarely to enemy levels.own. Demons have very wide resistance variations, so some demons may come off as counters for other, more troublesome demons. Though the games permit enough skill customization so that enough effort can effectively render any glaring weakness moot, the games being NintendoHard means that, of course, [[ThatOneBoss some bosses]] will still make your life hell unless you completely and utterly overpower them, [[SerialEscalation and sometimes even that is not enough.]] ]]
**
A prime notable example is the final boss of ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'', who has an action that will completely NoSell ''literally'' '''everything''' (Almighty included) you can throw at it. And since it's random, it until it decides it has had enough fun staring at you with that SlasherSmile.
** [[spoiler: The scripted fight that ends
is perfectly possible for the game, however, has our voiceless protagonist gain enough power guy to NoSell '''death itself'''.]]
spam it.
** Even worse with this, however, is [[NighInvulnerable Beldr]] from ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor''. Even on a NewGamePlus, ''everything'' you throw at him will fail, all the time, except his ''lone'' WeaksauceWeakness, getting punched in the face with a ''cellphone strap.'' This essentially makes every single spell and every single ''character'' in your entire team useless, '''except''' for the "Devil's Fuge" attack which replaces the main character's physical normal attack. [[NintendoHard Good luck.]] A lesser example from the same game is the Battle Aura auto skill, which nullifies all attacks that deal less than 50 damage.]]



*** And in ''Digital Devil Saga'' you can have the [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin Null Attack]] passive skill, which has the same effect as the Masakados mentioned above. [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything Not like it's gonna help you against said]] BonusBoss, though. There's also the Void/Repel/Drain series of skills, which work as a one turn NoSell against a specific element.
** ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' has the Omnipotent Orb, an accessory that has that very same effect.
*** ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' has it too, but it's much easier to just fuse a Helel that's immune to every element instead.
*** Pretty much every game in the series has Tetrakarn and Makarakarn, skills that are a one turn NoSell for physical and magical attacks, respectively.
** As a rule of thumb, though, several types of BossInMooksClothing in the series have a very nasty tendency to NoSell most conventional attacks. At best, they will be nulled. At worst, they will be repelled. Of course, given enough investment, you can have your private team of OlympusMons capable of {{No Sell}}ing most enemy attacks as well.

to:

*** And in ''Digital Devil Saga'' you can have the [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin Null Attack]] passive skill, which has the same effect as the Masakados mentioned above. [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything Not like it's gonna help you against said]] BonusBoss, though. There's also the Void/Repel/Drain series of skills, which work as a one turn NoSell against a specific element.
though.
** ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' has the Omnipotent Orb, an accessory that has that very with the same effect.
***
function as Masakado. It is not going to help you against [[BonusBoss Elizabeth]], either.
**
''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' has it too, but it's much easier to just fuse a Helel that's immune to every element instead.
*** Pretty much every game in the series has Tetrakarn and Makarakarn, skills that are a one turn NoSell for physical and magical attacks, respectively.
** As a rule of thumb, though, several types of BossInMooksClothing in the series have a very nasty tendency to NoSell most conventional attacks. At best, they will be nulled. At worst, they will be repelled. Of course, given enough investment, you can have your private team of OlympusMons capable of {{No Sell}}ing most enemy attacks as well.
instead.



** The separate Lucifer serves leader of the forces of CHAOS in the ''SMT'' continuity, in direct opposition to God, and two different Persona in the ''Persona'' games.

to:

** The separate Lucifer serves leader of the forces of CHAOS Chaos in the ''SMT'' continuity, in direct opposition to God, and two different Persona in the ''Persona'' games.games (Lucifer and Helel).



** Lucifer is occasionally portrayed as an AffablyEvil AntiVillain. Though this tends to be in games that aren't as directly law versus chaos.
** The completely separate Satan will also help you stop an OmnicidalManiac God if you take the LAW path in ''SMT II''.

to:

** Lucifer is occasionally portrayed as an AffablyEvil AntiVillain. AntiVillain, and indeed, some of the game seem to indicate that Lucifer/Chaos route is the best choice to make, since YHVH and the angels almost always have the policy of KillEmAll and start over whenever things look like they're getting out of hand. Even when God is defeated, he usually gives a speech along the lines of "As long as humanity is too weak to look for their own answers, their weakness will create a belief in me that brings me back to life again and again and again! MWAHAHAAH!" Though this tends to be true onlu in games that aren't as directly law versus chaos.
chaos, and Lucifer is always a SocialDarwinist ManipulativeBastard through and through no matter what game he appears in.
** The completely separate Satan Satan, who serves God, will also help you stop an OmnicidalManiac God if you take the LAW Law path in ''SMT II''.II'', [[spoiler:and again in ''Apocalypse'']].



*** Not without cheating back anyways, ''Digital Devil Saga 1'' has a cheat that allows you select any skill written in the code (whether it's in the game or not). Wanna bitchslap [[ThatOneBoss Hito-Shura]]? Break out [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard Hunger Wave]] and [[CurbStompBattle pound away]].



* SentientCosmicForce: The great will is this for the entire series. It is not intelligent, but is a summation of reality that both gives rise to it, as well as is a collective summation of all its entities. Its independent actions tend to be limited to responding to the actions of the collective inside of it, dividing itself to generate demons as thoughts that reflect what the people within it do. All the different sides ultimately in some way tend to respect the great will, with law calling it god, chaos calling it nature, and neutral ambiguously calling it "the common thread that binds all that exists." Sometimes they will simply refer to it directly as the great will though.

to:

* SentientCosmicForce: The great will Great Will/Axiom, is this for the entire series. series (or at least ''Apocalypse''). It is not exactly intelligent, but is a summation of reality that both gives rise to it, as well as is a collective summation of all its entities. Its independent actions tend to be limited to responding to the actions of the collective inside of it, dividing itself to generate demons as thoughts that reflect what the people within it do. All the different sides ultimately in some way tend to respect the great will, Great Will, with law calling it god, chaos calling it nature, and neutral ambiguously calling it "the common thread that binds all that exists." Sometimes they will simply refer to it directly as the great will Great Will though.
13th Jan '17 5:59:17 AM ashlay
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** ''Shin Megami Tensei Brand New Title'' (TBA, Tentative title, UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch)

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** New ''Shin Megami Tensei Brand New Title'' (TBA, Tentative title, UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch)Tensei'' UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch Title (TBA)
13th Jan '17 5:58:17 AM ashlay
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** ''Shin Megami Tensei Brand New Title'' (Tentative title, confirmed for the UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch with a currently unknown release date)

to:

** ''Shin Megami Tensei Brand New Title'' (Tentative (TBA, Tentative title, confirmed for the UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch with a currently unknown release date)UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch)
13th Jan '17 3:26:58 AM WolfThunder
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** ''Shin Megami Tensei V'' (upcoming, current release date unknown)

to:

** ''Shin Megami Tensei V'' (upcoming, current Brand New Title'' (Tentative title, confirmed for the UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch with a currently unknown release date unknown)date)
12th Jan '17 9:23:00 PM OldBen
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Added DiffLines:

** ''Shin Megami Tensei V'' (upcoming, current release date unknown)
3rd Jan '17 7:26:08 PM ergeis
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Added DiffLines:

** Some games for some reason still refer to the series as Digital Devil Story (for example, as a TitleDrop) despite having no connections to the novel.
1st Jan '17 4:31:45 PM LucaEarlgrey
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* ChargedAttack: Of a sort -- many games have a skill called Charge or Focus that multiplies the power of the user's next physical attack by 250%, and a similar skill called Mind Charge or Concentrate that does the same for the next magic attack. These skills are often used in conjunction with high-power, high-MP/[[CastFromHitPoints HP]] attack skills to inflict massive damage with more efficient use of resources. These temporary buffs cannot be dispelled, not even with Dekunda, for the most part (in ''IV: Apocalypse'', one boss [[spoiler:has a move that dispells all positive effects, ''including charges!'']]), so the only real defense is to guard if the game allows it or bring in party members who can resist or block the incoming attack, unless the attack pierces resistances.

to:

* ChargedAttack: Of a sort -- many games have a skill called Charge or Focus that multiplies the power of the user's next physical attack by 250%, and a similar skill called Mind Charge or Concentrate that does the same for the next magic attack. These skills are often used in conjunction with high-power, high-MP/[[CastFromHitPoints HP]] attack skills to inflict massive damage with more efficient use of resources. These temporary buffs cannot be dispelled, not even with Dekunda, for the most part (in ''IV: Apocalypse'', one boss [[spoiler:has a move that dispells all positive effects, ''including charges!'']]), part, so the only real defense is to guard if the game allows it or bring in party members who can resist or block the incoming attack, unless the attack pierces resistances.
1st Jan '17 4:31:17 PM LucaEarlgrey
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ChargedAttack: Of a sort -- many games have a skill called Charge or Focus that multiplies the power of the user's next physical attack by 250%, and a similar skill called Mind Charge or Concentrate that does the same for the next magic attack. These skills are often used in conjunction with high-power, high-MP/[[CastFromHitPoints HP]] attack skills to inflict massive damage with more efficient use of resources. These temporary buffs cannot be dispelled, not even with Dekunda, so the only real defense is to guard if the game allows it or bring in party members who can resist or block the incoming attack, unless the attack pierces resistances.

to:

* ChargedAttack: Of a sort -- many games have a skill called Charge or Focus that multiplies the power of the user's next physical attack by 250%, and a similar skill called Mind Charge or Concentrate that does the same for the next magic attack. These skills are often used in conjunction with high-power, high-MP/[[CastFromHitPoints HP]] attack skills to inflict massive damage with more efficient use of resources. These temporary buffs cannot be dispelled, not even with Dekunda, for the most part (in ''IV: Apocalypse'', one boss [[spoiler:has a move that dispells all positive effects, ''including charges!'']]), so the only real defense is to guard if the game allows it or bring in party members who can resist or block the incoming attack, unless the attack pierces resistances.
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