Creator Donald Trump Discussion

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jarxon6
Topic
05:52:17 PM Dec 5th 2016
I think this page needs the chance to be updated. While Trump is a very controversial figure, there are things to add about him that are simple facts, like listing Hillary Clinton under Arch Enemy for the 2016 election, or putting "Make America Great Again" under Memetic Mutation in the YMMV page, or things like that. Just some stuff to make it feel less like a stub page.
JulianLapostat
06:03:15 PM Dec 5th 2016
The page will be updated when the essential ritual is completed. The meeting of the Electoral College on Dec. 19. The inaugration in January 22nd.

When that happens, Trump's page will become Useful Notes and subject to new policy.

And listing Hillary as Arch-Enemy is a rule that wouldn't work since we don't trope real life people. "Make America Great Again" is older than Donald Trump...Reagan first used it, then Bill Clinton. And there is a Politics page for that already.

kyun
04:13:37 PM Dec 7th 2016
As of now, I think we should keep the facts to Trump's associations with any kind of entertainment, since this is a site about tropes in fiction.
baseoaces
Topic
01:31:11 PM Nov 22nd 2016
Common, when will this topic be unlocked. You all gonna just wait until the impeachment?
Larkmarn
01:33:07 PM Nov 22nd 2016
edited by Larkmarn
... thank you for demonstrating why it's not unlocked yet.

... also, why are you addressing a rapper-turned-actor?
Jhonny
01:33:20 PM Nov 22nd 2016
I am quite sure this will be unlocked upon either the moment Donald Trump is not controversial any more or some time after his death, whichever happens first...

I mean, George W Bush is still locked and he is much less controversial as of today than Donald Trump
TheBigBopper
01:42:17 PM Nov 22nd 2016
edited by TheBigBopper
I am strongly opposed to President-Elect Trump in my capacity as a private citizen, and if I had to guess I'd say that more tropers than not have an unfavorable opinion of his election. That is precisely why we should keep this page locked. This guy is pretty much Flame Bait personified, and even the more objective among us would struggle to maintain the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement. Besides, other politician pages I've glanced at such as Obama and Hillary are still locked, indicating that this is a pretty common anti-vandalism measure when dealing with such figures.
baseoaces
02:32:23 PM Nov 22nd 2016
OK, maybe I was being a bit facetious with the impeachment comment (though I'm giving 50/50 odds he doesn't make it to the midterms)

There should be some method of editing this page however. Any way edicts can be submitted for moderation?

And while other politician's pages are still locked, they do tend to already have a lot more information in them. HRC's page is several times longer and she never even had her own reality show.
TheBigBopper
02:48:02 PM Nov 22nd 2016
What you do with a locked page is submit content in the forum thread for locked pages, iirc. We can add content to locked pages, it just goes through the mods and therefore takes a long time to get approved. It seems the idea that "we don't trope real life" is unevenly enforced or judged subjectively with regard to Creator pages, which may account for the Obama and Hillary pages being longer.
crskkk
Topic
08:00:54 PM Nov 14th 2016
The limo story is fake: http://www.snopes.com/luck/trump.asp . Does this have more or less merit than him telling it in TA?
Larkmarn
07:11:46 AM Nov 15th 2016
I hate to say it but... it should stay on here. We trope works, not real life. Since, in the context of the work it's presented as "true" we shouldn't say otherwise... despite the fact the man is a pathological liar and almost assuredly not telling the truth.

Maybe change the wording to "Trump claimed the story was true during the third season of The Apprentice.
WickedIcon
01:25:20 AM Nov 23rd 2016
The problem with "we trope works, not real life" in this instance is that, in this case, the "work" is real life. This is a page about Donald Trump the man, not The Apprentice, and pointing out that it was proven false seems valid.
TheBigBopper
01:04:22 PM Nov 23rd 2016
I say we keep it, and state both that Donald claimed it was true and that snopes labeled it false:

"[story, blah, blah, blah]...Snopes determined it to be untrue, but Donald claimed it really happened on The Apprentice"
Jhonny
01:21:28 PM Nov 23rd 2016
That sounds like a workable solution.
M773982
02:00:10 PM Jan 10th 2017
Or we could just say "Snopes points out that its false, and Trump is a pathological liar so there is no reason to believe him". We could NOT pretend that facts and lies are both equally valid, which is the entire goddamn reason we are in this mess in the first place.
TheBigBopper
05:04:31 PM Jan 10th 2017
We aren't saying truth and lies are equally valid, that's not what this is about. If Donald said it on one of his media programs, it doesn't matter if it's a lie or an exaggeration or a mistake, the trope's refered to in his work. We do get to include the fact that snopes debunked it, because snopes is an independent source and we're just mentioning what they said, which is different from injecting opinion into the page like you're suggesting.

If you oppose Donald Trump and oppose his agenda, insulting him on TV Tropes is just creating a headache for the troper community while wasting time that could be spend doing something more productive to your cause in real life. Phone your congressman, donate to one of the groups lobbying against him, join protest marches, go to a town meeting, run for office, or any number of things that affect politics in real life. Calling Trump a liar on TV Tropes, even if for the sake of argument if were true, is not going to solve anybody's problems.
laughterfromthesky
Topic
02:29:36 AM Nov 9th 2016
"Donald Trump (June 14, 1946-) is a real estate mogul and billionaire."

Should be

"Donald Trump (June 14, 1946-) is a real estate mogul, billionaire, and soon-to-be 46th President of the United States."
laughterfromthesky
02:31:10 AM Nov 9th 2016
Excuse me, 45th.
Nithael
03:25:47 AM Nov 9th 2016
A change was requested on the forums, the mods will get to it eventually.
DeltaDart
01:56:39 PM Nov 9th 2016
President-elect would be a better term than soon-to-be.
Jhonny
05:28:41 PM Nov 9th 2016
Indeed, "President elect" is the technical term. Even though more people voted for Hillary Clinton than for him.
DeltaDart
08:00:17 AM Nov 10th 2016
The November 8 popular vote doesn't determine which candidate will get elected. That decision is entirely in the hands of the electoral college. Voting for electors, Congress, and local government is where the people have power.
Jhonny
11:58:19 AM Nov 10th 2016
Well I did not want to start a political discussion, but if we want to be all super-technical about that, we have to say that he does not become "President elect" until the electoral college actually elects him. Because the people did not.
brownninja10
03:21:11 PM Nov 10th 2016
edited by brownninja10
Ok, why it's taking so long for the main page to be updated? Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement for the 11th billionth time?
tvtropesruinedmylife22
08:47:08 AM Nov 11th 2016
It's indeed frustrating, but the Mods will get there when they get there.
Jhonny
05:25:28 PM Nov 11th 2016
Well technically speaking he is butkus right now. The Electoral College has not yet convened and while it has not done so in all presidential elections thus far, it could decide to vote for someone else. And calling someone "elected" to anything when their opponent actually got more votes and the procedure by which the office is still handed to them is not yet completed is technically wrong on to counts.

Of course for all intents and purposes he is the next president, but he has not yet any claim to it that would rest on anything but "how things usually go"
TropesForever
Topic
03:36:20 PM Sep 20th 2016
edited by TropesForever
If he gets elected, are we gonna move this to UsefulNotes.Donald Trump? (Also that page already has a lot of wicks.)
LordTelos
Topic
02:13:29 AM Aug 10th 2016
Why are there ZERO tropes about his 2016 campaign?
Larkmarn
06:52:52 AM Aug 10th 2016
Because his campaign isn't a work. And we trope works, not real life.
Heavyman99
10:09:23 PM Aug 17th 2016
We could Useful Notes the 2016 election at the end of all this.
Jhonny
07:00:02 AM Aug 18th 2016
Also it can be argued that the person running for President is a character (just like the person doing the Colbert Report was) and something like that would be tropeable...

But I agree, better to wait until this is over. Whenever it may be.
Nithael
07:26:09 AM Aug 18th 2016
Unless Trump reveals at the end that he was just kidding and didn't actually mean anything he said, then no, neither he nor his campaign can be troped because they are not works of fiction.
Larkmarn
10:50:12 AM Aug 18th 2016
edited by Larkmarn
That said, a Useful Notes for the 2016 election would be fine.

Just so long as youre adding tropes for thongs occurring in works about the election, not the election.

^ ... incidentally, I would be anything that if he loses that's basically the attitude that he'll have.
Chris116
06:44:43 AM Sep 23rd 2016
I've been really happy that we really made Trump's page neutral, and this is coming from someone who isn't a fan of him. But I dunno, feels like it should be noted that he's the 2016 Republican nominee. Shrug. Not losing any sleep on it, just wondering why it hasn't been added.
The_Falconator
12:05:16 PM Nov 10th 2016
edited by The_Falconator
"Because his campaign isn't a work. And we trope works, not real life." Steven Hawking's page has an "associated tropes" index.
SvartiKotturinn
Topic
09:32:50 AM Jun 27th 2016
Where do we add how he commended Scotland for voting to leave the EU and ‘take back their country’ when it overwhelmingly voted ‘Remain’? Since Critical Research Failure is apparently not an option...
Larkmarn
10:42:52 AM Jun 27th 2016
edited by Larkmarn
I'm sure you know this by now, but we don't.
sandacapo
Topic
09:41:06 AM Dec 29th 2015
There should be a YMMV page about him too. I mean, I have one YMMV suggestion: Jerk with a heart of gold. It seems that his heart is as big as his ego.
Larkmarn
10:03:50 AM Dec 29th 2015
Thank you for swiftly demonstrating exactly why a YMMV page would be a terrible idea.
SeptimusHeap
02:40:59 AM Dec 30th 2015
Yes, we don't insult real people here.
CainandAble
06:01:47 AM May 11th 2016
Yeah, no insulting him, but I could see a YMMV page for Memetic Mutation and Never Live it Down, for the things he says during his campaign.
mightymewtron
12:30:19 PM Oct 22nd 2016
JWAHAG isnt even a ymmv trope, and has No Real Life Examples, Please! on it.
doomsday524
Topic
10:50:13 AM Nov 23rd 2015
Trump never ran for president in 2012, he just considered a run for president before declining. The page is locked, but someone should fix that.
SeptimusHeap
10:49:28 PM Nov 24th 2015
That is something for the "Locked pages" thread in the forums.
mightymewtron
12:31:17 PM Oct 22nd 2016
I feel like if the page were unlocked, people would be posting a lot of bias on it. Maybe after the election.
Warrior13
02:55:04 AM Nov 11th 2016
Shouldn't this page be updated already? He is president elect now after all.
M773982
11:21:51 AM Jan 10th 2017
Whats the proper trope for him mocking a reporter woth a degenerative muscle disease, then lying about it? Or all the other constant lies he tells?

Or are we refusing to put down concrete, immuntable facts cause some people dont like them?
Larkmarn
12:20:35 PM Jan 10th 2017
We don't put that down because we're not here to trope real life. We're here to trope fiction.

The value of this page isn't to document every awful thing he says or idiotic statement. There's countless sites for that.

This page should be to document Trump's effects on works, both in terms of works made by him and once he becomes president, presumably works depicting him. But at no point should we be troping him like he's a fictional character.
M773982
01:30:00 PM Jan 10th 2017
Then remove the propaganda bit about him paying a couples mortgage. Even outside of it being laughably false and you're basically relying on him saying he's great as proof that it happened, its supposedly "real life"
Larkmarn
01:40:11 PM Jan 10th 2017
See discussion above.
M773982
02:02:27 PM Jan 10th 2017
You mean the discussion from two months ago wherein you still haven't changed it to point out that Snopes points out it is a lie? And still places Trumps lies as equally valid as the truth?
Larkmarn
02:13:19 PM Jan 10th 2017
edited by Larkmarn
Yes, I mean participate in the discussion if you want to actually contribute instead of just being needlessly confrontational and ignorant of wiki practices and begin an identical discussion in a second place. Your call, of course.
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