Discussion Characters / NarutoNarutoUzumaki

Thing is he never flew in Boruto or used any of the other abilities that characterize Six Paths Sage Mode. Nor is it ever called that in Boruto. Naruto does mention Six Paths Sage Mode when asking Kurama what makes Baryon Mode different, but he doesn’t speak as if that was the mode he was using before.

Then that is just a major plot hole why didn’t he use it during his fight with Isshiki that’s, and Sasuke should have been able to fight on par with Isshiki since he has the Rinnegan (or at least had the Rinnegan) and Naruto should have used Six Paths Sage Mode against Isshiki that’s just poor writing.

Also if He was using Six Paths Sage Mode he would have destroyed Fused Momoshiki and they nerfed Sasuke as well during the Fused Momoshiki fight.

Those are all opinions based on vague or incomplete information. There's some evidence for instance that Naruto simply no longer had the powers that made Six Paths Sage Mode so useful (i.e. for instance he may have lost the Truth Seeker Orbs in the battle with Sasuke, and a databook notes they cannot be remade once lost), hence his use of Kurama Mode instead. We have to remember too that even with all abilities intact the main reason he and Sasuke fared as well as they did against Kaguya was because she initially was not trying to kill them. Isshiki had no such issue, and Naruto and Sasuke lacked against him the seal that made them a threat to Kaguya.

And in any event, Sasuke seemed as powerful as ever in the Fuse Momoshiki battle, even using Planetary Devastation. However, against Isshiki he was still recovering from the injuries from his previous fight with Jigen, and got a bunch of new injuries in the process. Hence why he deactivated his Sharingan, which inadvertently helped Momoshiki take him by surprise (that and their ability to hide their presence). Sasuke wasn't nerfed so much as exhausted.

It's more fair I think to discuss potential reasons for things rather than just dismiss a decision as "bad writing "

Which adds to the point that they did not disagree, the kote is a weapon of war and can only bring war, which is what Naruto opposes to, and that thing only has very limited and being too reliant on it will lead to disaster. times are different from Naruto's time, war tools are being discourage, which the kote is.

You know what else is a weapon of war? Swords. Shuriken. Kunai. Jutsus in general. The entire ninja system is based on war. Naruto opposing the kote but not any of the other stuff just makes him a bigger hypocrite. But irrelevant either way.

Whether or not Naruto is opposed to the device on the basis of it encouraging overreliance or it being a weapon of war, or whether anyone disputed his actions, that's not why he disqualified Boruto.

It was because Boruto was using something other than his own chakra to gain an advantage. Kinda like Naruto did when he fought Neji. Hence, hypocrite.

Training to master it aside, when Naruto uses Kurama's chakra, he's drained -sometimes even badly hurt. Think back on the battle between 4-tailed Naruto and Orochimaru. The gauntlet, on the other hand, lets someone use any kind of jutsu they want, even those they shouldn't be able to use, without any strain.

In video game terms, the former is an Infinity +1 Sword, while the latter is a cheat code.

Regardless, the gauntled was not allowed in the Chunin exams that year, so any discussion on Naruto's (supposed, imo) hypocrisy is a moot point. Boruto broke the rules, and that's that.

This debate reminds me of the filler episode where Part II Naruto took the Chunin exam alongside Konohamaru and was disqualified because Sage Mode was disallowed.

Naruto never said "own chakra" in any translation I've seen, so let's get that "open and shut" out of the way. The chunin exam are meant to show the partisipants abilities. To use your Akamaru/Kurama comparison, Kiba's control over Akamaru shows his abilities as a Inuzuka. Use of puppets shows Kankuro's abilities as a puppeteer, Use of Kurama shows Naruto's abilities as a jinchūriki.

The fact is the device was illegal. Boruto knowingly cheated, with the device having been banned literally in front of him, hence the disqualification. Even if Kurama’s power isn’t “fair”, it was never outlawed. That’s an important distinction. And that Boruto didn't have to train to use the device is not just relevant, it's literally the whole point of that plotline in the first place.

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Naruto's use of Kurama's chakra leaving him drained is not relevant.

The device allows the user to use methods other than their own chakra to win, and this is specifically what Naruto objected to when he disqualified Boruto. Not that it's not fair. Not that it lets you use jutsus without being exhausted. Not any of that other stuff. Just that it goes against his idea of what the Chunin Exams are for.

But Naruto used methods other than his own chakra to win, which are in direct contradiction of that same idea.

Even discounting Boruto's usage of it, the fact that Naruto banned it is itself grounds for hypocrisy for the same reason, so the example can be moved back to hypocrisy from Parental Hypocrisy.

And if that doesn't convince you then I don't know how else to explain it and I'm not really that invested in the character to begin with, sooo...yeah.

This is ridiculous, the movie is unquestionably canon.

Kishimoto supervised the story and demanded changes to the script to fit his ideas.

The scarf was his idea. So was the 2 year timeskip that has given many a naruhina shipper headaches.

And the whole claim that it's not canon because it retconed some unexplained thing is baffling.

The manga retconed itself several times, and very little is known about Naruto's childhood, much less Hinata's, to throw the bully scene into question.

It was adapted in broad strokes from the anime into manga canon with Kishimoto's aproval (also, there are some apocryphal sayings in the internet that the bully scene in the anime was added from Kishimoto's input in the first place, but that's beside the point).

Dandere Naruto clearly has shipping bias in these edits, what with the challenges to Word of God, and his history of edits to both Naruto's and Hinata's entries, including an unfounded attempt to claim Naruto's crush on Sakura turned into genuine romantic love at some indeterminate point.

Yeah I'm not shipping Bias so don't go around accusing me of crap, also the movie Canon yeah he said it had ties to the manga just like the Light novels have ties to the manga but they aren't actually Canon are they they just cover the Black period so No I'm not challenging the"Word of God". Dude I don't even Like Narusaku or really like for that Sakura but this thing happened to Sakura and Ino by the way only with Sasuke. Anyway I put one edit on Hinata and that is Her being a Satellite character and people keep taking it off despite the fact that she actually is one she even in the Anime & Manga examples. Now with Naruto's crush on Sakura it did turn into to Love even Sai knew that and Said Naruto actually Loved Sakura in the manga though Sakura only thought he just had a simple crush. Also I wouldn't really say the Movie has to be Canon in some way for the Boruto saga to Occur though but it is possible for some parts to be some form of canon, I think this kinda why people say the movies Semi-canon. Anyway the problem is more with it Contradicts the manga multiple times but the Manga contradicting it's self is a different matter. Arawn999 you are right though something Needs to be decided as this Editwar shouldn't really continue if it comes down to it I will withdraw my point don't want to escalate the war.

To answer a few of your points:

1. Hinata is not a Satellite Character. She has her own reasons for wanting to be strong (check the "Well Done, Daughter!" Girl entry in her character page) -only one of them is to be noticed by Naruto.

2. You say that Sai (who's not known to be the most in-touch-with-his-feelings of the cast) points out that Naruto's crush on Sakura had turned genuine at some point. Maybe it had, maybe it hadn't. Point is, after Sakura 'confessed' to Naruto, there's almost no Ship Tease between them. The gag when Sakura, Sasuke, and Naruto are standing back to back and Naruto complains about being ignored is just that: a gag, considering that mere hours later (after his battle with Sasuke) he smiles as the Uchiha apologizes to Sakura.

To the point: by the end of the War, Naruto didn't have romantic feelings for Sakura.

3. The movie, the novels, the upcoming manga... All of them are canon, whether you (or anyone else, for that matter) like it or not. Kishimoto has stated it, others have confirmed it.

4. If you want to consider something as "filler", as you put it, it's Hinata's flashback of her first meeting with Naruto.

No Hinata is a Satellite character almost her entire character is centered around Naruto right now Her getting stronger her Personality It's nearly all Naruto seriously also Kinda Low how someone went to the Satellite character trope and Deleted her from the Page like really pointless.

I'm not gonna even bother with your number two since it's pretty much BS, anyway Kishimoto has not stated That the Movie and the Novels are Canon especially not the Light Novels It's like DB GT Boruto is kinda debatable too as no one even said that it was Canon everyone just kinda assumes it was. Also right now I don't even care about the upcoming Manga but pretty sure he didn't say that it was canon and I actually check this stuff especially with The Last. I swear this is why I hardly wanna do this, I feel like I'm on tumbler or something especially after this response.

I may not Care that much on my Second Point in the first place, but I'm not budging on the first part I don't even see how you Can deny that Hinata is a Satellite character when she is that Trope to a freaking T.

...Okay. Yeah. I'm going to redirect you to Narutopedia. You can find everything there. Also, reddit. Knock yourself out.

Also, read the trope descriptions, not just the laconic page. A Satellite Character is pretty much useless without their 'planet'. However, even if you remove Naruto, Hinata is still a fully fleshed-out character. If you disagree, justify your opinion, don't call mine 'BS'.

PS: I never insulted you or called your entry in this page BS, even though it took me four re-reads to figure out what you were trying to say.

PPS: If you think my second point is BS then, by all means, present me with some counter-points. This is a discussion page, after all.

Furthermore, if you really want someone who fits the Satellite Character trope to a T, it's Tenten.

She even got a more important role in a spin-off. Can't get closer to the trope description than that.

I only called part of your entry BS because it was though I didn't insult the whole thing anyway just that section there not much point redirecting me Since I've already been to BOTH of those sites. And I actually have read The Trope descriptions I don't know why you think I didn't and only read the Laconic section and don't care, anyway A Satellite character being useless without there Planet is not true for most of them just some of them and that's only if you read the examples but that still doesn't show that Hinata is a fully flesh out character when she actually isn't if you removed Naruto she would pretty much fall a part as she is damn near dependent on him as is her development as a character as small as it is she's s as much this trope as Sakura is even if all of her fans deny it.

P.S One if were talking re-reads you shouldn't actually be talking. Two on your PPS I don't really need to bring in counter-points just because I think it's BS even though I said it was with good reason I just don't care that much in the first place otherwise I would've.

If you've read Narutopedia, then you'd know the novels and the movies are canon. There's even a freaking timeline to show when each one takes place.

Also, if you've read reddit, then you'd have seen translations (the correct ones, not the ones 'edited' by NaruSaku fans) that say a.) Kishimoto was fully supportive of The Last and even gave them the idea about the scarf, b.) he watched The Last and got embarrassed during the kiss, and c.) he considers Boruto: the movie his best work so far.

I'm glad you pointed out that Sakura had some traces of Satellite Character before the Chunin Exams arc, what with how she had no other purpose besides being a Damsel in Distress Naruto had a crush on. But you don't see anyone fighting an Edit War to put that in her character page, do you?

Yeah in the Blank period and I thought it was well know Narutopedia isn't the most reliable of places for Info but I guess not but eh not really my problem, that doesn't make them canon just because it fits in with the Timeline not much different then GT. I don't know why you'd think I wouldn't say she wasn't a satellite character or Partial Damsel in distress in the first place when she was. No I didn't read them but I already knew Kishimoto gave the scarf Idea as his wife did that for him I thought that was common Knowledge, fully supportive is debatable but that not what this is about but I don't remember him saying Boruto the movie is his best work so far anywhere. I don't see what it has to do with the discussion at hand.

P.S: Naruhina actually Edit translations as much as Narusaku does so I don't think we can say which ones are correct hard to find reliable stuff these days.

...You admit that you know Kishimoto supported didn't object to The Last, but you still refuse to accept it as canon.

I'm tired of arguing with you. Believe whatever you like.

However, if you want to alter an entry in a character page, then justify it with more than 'it is known'.

To get back to the original argument:

1.) Naruto saved Hinata from bullies. It's shown in the anime, and got retconed in the canon movie.

2.) The Last, the canon movie, states that Naruto never loved Sakura as more than a friend -he just thought he did.

3.) Being inspired to become stronger because of Naruto doesn't make Hinata a Satellite Character. If he wasn't in her life, she would be a weakling with a ton of confidence issues, not a blank slate. Check your facts.

It sounds like you don't know much about satellite characters I didn't say it would make them a Blank slate in the first place with out that "character" multiple Satellite characters wouldn't be Blank slates either But your oversimplifying What Naruto is to Hinata and what he's done for her by a LOT. Also The Movie's not Canon and Canon wise he didn't save her from bullies also you really should stop bolding your words.

Anyway whatever dude/dudette but I'll just say this Don't go around accusing me of stuff and take your own advice alright I'm done with this peace out ;P

Kishimoto has been explicit in interviews that The Last is part of Manga canon, it is placed within the manga canon by Shueisha, you know, the people that published the manga to begin with, and whose editors had a great deal of influence over the way the story ultimately went.

It was advertised with a fricking chapter number that placed it in manga continuity, as opposed to all the other movies sans Boruto, which are explicitly non-canon or within anime canon.

You can make the argument that The Last is filler, since seeing the movie doesn't really matter to understand the manga, unless you want to know how Naruhina happened.

But being filler does not make it non-canon.

A supposed retcon doesn't exculude it from canon either. And you sill have not even explained what the canon breaking retcon even is.

It can't be Naruto and Hinata meeting as kids when they started the academy. Outside of a flashback to Naruto and Sasuke fighting at the academy (where Hinata was already rooting for Naruto), absolutely nothing is known about those years.

Therefore there is absolutely nothing canon breaking about Naruto protecting Hinata from bullies back then.

Is it because Hinata never talked about it? She admires Naruto for reasons beyond him saving her as kids. And mind you, they don't even really talk about it within The Last either.

Is it perhaps the use of tiny imperfect clones, which Naruto was shown using at the start of the manga before mastering Shadow Clones?

Or the idea that he was not in love with Sakura, despite his consistent use of Suki when speaking of his feelings, and his and Kakashi's support of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke during the last chapters? Because that supports the idea of a crush that faded, gag scene with Minato and being left out by Sakura during the Team 7 reuinion excluded.

None of these really constitute a retcon, and even if they were, it still doesn't make The Last non-canon.

Whatever man i already said I'm done with this that wasn't even the main Issue anyway peace. XD

It'd have to be rephrased for better context, but I don't see why he doesn't count as one.

how would you phrase it then?

I'm not sure, but just listing a bunch of trope names without providing specific examples of how the main trope is applicable is still a Zero Context Example. Like a good deal of the cast, he's a Child Soldier, and the best example of him openly defying orders to do the right thing is the Fourth Shinobi World War, where the Kage decide to not even tell him a war is going on because they know he'll go charging off to the front lines to protect his loved ones, orders to stay put be damned.

Hello? Plus can we have power of love for them as wellas well?

How do they fit the trope?

Because well, would it be safe to say that because of how it helped them save the world in the last, plus hinata could be this way since childhood?

That does not explain how the trope applies.

Agreed.

Well. I'd think that letting Orochimaru go free conflicts with wanting to be a great leader, but whatevs.

What changes would you suggest in order to put it under Protagonist-Centered Morality?

I don't know. Isn't it pointless to add Protagonist-Centered Morality to a Character page since the whole series -or, for that matter, any story- is defined by it?

But, if you really think you should, then Naruto leans heavily and consistently towards the Rousseau Was Right approach.

As for Orochimaru: to me, it looks like he's on probation. He's allowed to stay in his lab, conducting tame, non-human experiments but he's under constant surveilance. One wrong move and he's in jail. Besides, it kinda makes sense they would give him a pardon: the former Hokage he reanimated saved the Alliance and helped end the War. Gratitute is as good a reason as any to give someone a "get out of jail" card.

And as far as Obito is concerned, if one believes that Vader earned redemption by saving Luke and killing the Emperor, then one can accept that Obito (who stabbed Madara, revived Naruto, saved Sasuke, took a lethal blow for Naruto and came back to give Kakashi his double Mangekyo) also earned his. After all, they're both child-killing mass murderers.