He has been on this page before, but he was always deleted because there was never enough vicious conflict for him to count as Base-Breaking.
I can't draw
How is discourse determined to be "a vicious conflict"? I've personally seen FAR more discourse surrounding Ganondorf in Smash than Pikachu or Peach who both have entries on this page
Edited by Mariofan99
Always serious, 'cause someone has to be
Regarding one entry:
- Sonic: It should come as no surprise that one of the most base breaking franchises of all time cannot quite agree on the Blue Blur. Due to Sakurai specifically basing him on the classic games with Simple But Awesome being the core of his moveset (matching the Mega Drive quadrilogy), it did not appeal to the entire fan base. Fans of Sonic in Smash like the nostalgic throwback of the original games and references of the obscure Cult Classic, Sonic the Fighters. Detractors of the moveset find it boring, wishing for more references to the Adventure sub series and Sonic Battle series.
Is this real? I don't think there are enough people who actively like Sonic's moveset to oppose the amount of people I have seen that either actively dislike it or believe that it could use some changes.
I can't draw Hide / Show Replies
Probably not. But I'm not part of the Sonic community, so perhaps I'm not the most suited to judge.
135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
So, since Pyra/Mythra are very likely to get added to the page this or next month, I'd like to also make a case for what I think is another issue that's probably still going, and it's the matter of Rex not being playable.
Despite how he's a Base-Breaking Character in his home game, he was one of the highly requested characters (along with Pyra as combo character of sorts) during the pre-release phase, but then came the Mii Costume. Then Min Min's announcement revived conjecture for them because of the circumstances surrounding both of their home games in the base game.
Even after the March presentation for Pyra/Mythra, which revealed he was initially planned, I think there are Smash and Xenoblade fans split on the final product.
From what I've seen, I think we have about 4 camps: First is those fine with P/M. I think I've seen them generally say their inclusion is justified given their popularity, their view of them being more important to the home game's narrative, and their swapping mechanic and them being semiclones. Then there's those who wanted a playable Rex, feeling how only the Aegis being playable panders to those solely attracted to them , and I think I've seen some say it worsens an existing Fandom-Enraging Misconception for their home game, which I can get behind given how surface-level arguments about them after the reveal were about their designs, which almost sounds like arguments from when Xenoblade 2 first came out all over again.
Next there's those who wanted both him and the Aegis playable akin to the pre-release phase speculation, which I think I've seen bummed that the Driver and Blade system could not be translated to Smash. I'd probably also mention it's not too farfetched to think they feel the reveal probably cheated them out of the prospect of both fighting as one with how the trailer's buildup was framed, but I'm not sure of that one. Lastly, I think there's fans of Rex within the Xenoblade fandom, which overlaps with the 2nd and 3rd camps, but feel him not being playable blew the opportunity to finally dispel, if not contest the stigma against his English voice actor. This next part might not be accurate since I haven't gauged this one much (since I'll admit, this particular discourse gets to me sometimes too), but I know I've seen at least some people say how he has too little lines in the game for how far better voice directed they sound, with them being glanced over simply due to him not being playable, and how there's no potential games for him to reappear in anywhere in sight.
TL;DR, I think there's still a divide over Rex's fate after all the hope for him being base game or DLC, only for him to not be playable anyway and the ensuing fallout. Although I might be biased as someone who was among those who wanted him playable.
Is it worth adding? I don't think this would go under the Spring Man not getting chosen entry, since this is more tied to Pyra/Mythra's inclusion rather than the prospect of promoting something like an assist.
Let me know what you all think. I mainly based this on my own observations with some of my own thoughts that I've also seen said by others in the mix, so as I said already this might not be entirely accurate. If this is something noteworthy, then I just want to test the waters to help gauge what could need to be changed, added, removed, etc.
Edited by BriefCasey795 Hide / Show Replies
This sounds like a fine idea, although the point of "some people wanted Rex in to stop the hate for his English voice actor" seems more like a side argument than part of the main argument.
From my perspective, there are likely four sides to this: Those who wanted Pyra and Mythra, who were satisfied. Those who wanted Pyra/Mythra and Rex, who were miffed. Those who just wanted Rex, who were unhappy. And those who didn't want a Xenoblade 2 character at all, who were very unhappy.
Edited by YoriIroy I can't draw
For the first sentence, perhaps? More input might be required on that one I suppose, but I can understand how it seems more like a side thing.
As for your perspective of the sides, I'm not sure if the last one here as well applies much? I feel like it can also go for virtually any, if not certain characters as well.
For instance, while there's anyone who would get mad at any character that's not who they wanted, there have been notably vocal camps that did not want an ARMS fighter, Byleth, and Steve per se, granted the last one was moreso back when he had a rivalry with Banjo. Then again, more input may be needed on that one too, since I think there are other Xenoblade fans that fit that bill, considering other characters from it that were speculated.
Edited by BriefCasey795
At this point, should Byleth be re-added? I feel that even to this day, they're more controversial than Pythra (although both would qualify for this trope) because of the whole Fire Emblem aspect, whereas there was only one Xenoblade fighter before Fighters Pass 2. There's also the aspect of Byleth being a boring/"safe"/disappointing choice to Three Houses fans who would have preferred one or all of the house leaders, who don't wield swords. (Personally, I was stoked for the possibility of Edelgard getting into Smash but Byleth killed my interest in Fire Emblem Three Houses.)
I feel that P/M do qualify for Base-Breaking Character, but if they do, then so does Byleth.
Edited by 2HeadedMoonOctopus
I will concede that Byleth and Pythra may have similar level of hate. The difference is that Pythra have clear fans that stick up for them and try to defend them from detractors while Byleth doesn't. Even both of the examples you gave are example of groups who dislike Byleth. The rest of the Smash fanbase doesn't care enough about Byleth, and they can't be a Base-Breaker if only one side cares.
I can't draw
In that case though, wouldn't Byleth count as The Scrappy (which they clearly aren't)? A lot of people do like and defend Byleth after all, and they have a decent amount of mains. Some people like them already from FE3H (a very popular game) and/or praise their multi-weapon moveset.
Edited by 2HeadedMoonOctopus
For the record, I'm someone who actually does like playing Byleth from time to time and also greatly enjoyed Three Houses, so I definitely would say he's not The Scrappy. It is a tough matter though considering FE's previous history with the Smash fandom.
Yeah, I'd say that Byleth is a very pronounced Base-Breaking Character because they have a lot of fans who like them, but also a lot of pronounced hate. Same for P/M though I think their reputation is a bit more positive overall for coming from a series that only had 1 rep previously, and also (yes) for being Ms. Fanservice.
I still believe there aren't enough people who hate or defend Byleth for them to count as Base-Breakers. However, Pyra/Mythra are not Base-Breaking Characters either. The main point about them on this page is not about them getting in, it's about Rex not getting in.
I can't draw
Earlier this year I proposed including Rosalina, Greninja, and Lucario as their overexposure made them base breaking characters in their own series with Smash being a big factor towards their overexposure. I was shot down as how they're received in their home series has no bearing on the status in Smash. However we list Charizard, Lucina and Chrom as base breaking characters with Overexposure as a a major reason given.
If those 3 are allowed why not the ones I proposed?
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Firstly, that first part is right. If a character is overexposed in their home series, that's a problem with their home series, not with Smash.
Secondly, I checked the entries for Charizard, Lucina, and Chrom, and none of them talk about overexposure. They all talk about popularity, which is not the same thing as overexposure. The closest thing a wacky, minimal-story slapfest like Smash has to overexposure is over-representation, and there is already an entry on this page about that.
Rosalina, Greninja, and Lucario just didn't spark as many arguments about their inclusion/implementation in Smash, meaning that they don't count as Base-Breaking Characters in Smash.
I can't draw
Should we make a point on how much a character's moveset should be changed between installments? I've heard arguments for and against overhauling less source accurate or outdated depictions of characters like Mario, Donkey Kong, Samus and Ganondorf. Mainly between those who like how the chaarcter's play and those who are fans of them in their home series that want a more accurate depiction.
Also would Bowser Jr qualify as Base Breaking. I've seen some divide between his use of the clown copter
Okay, I will admit, I am a bit biased, but can we finally add platformer characters in this page? If you've been on Twitter (and if the answer is no, good for you), there is a discourse between JRPG characters and Platformer characters. This discourse is all due to Euden of Dragalia Lost winning a fan poll that contained Crash Bandicoot and since then, people who are fans of platformers pretty much crap on anything JRPG (which is partly why I added the section in the first place).
Honestly, a lot of what was said about JRPG characters can apply there, Animation Age Ghetto with the preference to cartoon looking characters, celebration of well known franchises instead of giving some series the attention they deserve, I can go on.
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I tried my hand at a writeup for JRPG vs Platformer, but I know I have bias towards the latter side (yes, even with this Geno hat) and could use a guy from the other side such as yourself to put some more points for the JRPG side.
Personally, I haven't even heard about this Euden vs Crash poll outside of this website, so I'm not sure if that's Fan Myopia or just me not using Twitter and avoiding the salt easily because of it.
Also, it seems like it'd be kinda redundant to have a "JRPG" example and a "JRPG vs Platformer example, so I'm pulling the former to this page.
Old JRPG entry
"Come on! Let's get this show on the road."
I have a few questions about the qualifications of certain characters. Would Hero Qualify on Account of his Moveset and the controversy caused in tournaments? Bayonetta seems divisive due to the evidence that indicates she wasn't the ACTUAL winner of the Smash Ballot and how she was a game breaker in Smash 4.
Also would Lucario, Rosalina, and Greninja qualify? Their overexposure made them base breaking characters in their home series (Even listed on those pages) and Smash is often cited as the beginning of their overexposure
I've also seen a divide on how Ganondorf, Bowser Jr and even Shulk are portrayed compared to their games and whether or not future games should make them closer to canon
Edited by Mariofan99 Hide / Show Replies
I don't think anyone is complaining about Hero's moveset these days, and Bayonetta's is still one sided in terms of her Smash 4 incarnation.
Lucario, Rosalina and Greninja, I argue that the entries on their own series pages is fine enough, nothing about those three are related in the context of Smash aside from the beginning of their overexposure.
Okay, I saw the Safe speculation entry and I just thought of something. Would it be safe to point out that a lot of the safe speculation characters are mostly ones that debuted during the Xbox 360/Playstation 3/Wii era and earlier (with of course, some exceptions like a Pokémon from Pokémon Sword and Shield). It seems to be a recurring pattern. Common examples include Crash Bandicoot who debuted in the PS 1, Ryu Hayabusa who debuted in the NES era, and Sora who debuted in the PS 2 era. Most of everyone who debuted after the Xbox 360/Playstation 3/Wii era (with the 3DS being the absolute maximum in some circles) are seen as "wasted spots" for some from what I can see.
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It's probably due to the most vocal of Smash's fanbase being between the ages of 13 to 30, when that era of gaming was the most prominent in their formative years as gamers. The go-to choices are mostly ones from their childhoods.
Always serious, 'cause someone has to be
Regarding the "Spring Man Not Being Chosen" entry: does that count? Do enough people care about him not getting chosen? Because I always thought he was just a footnote in the "Assist Trophies" fanrule debate.
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I think so. Pretty sure he was a big part of pre-reveal debates because of the possibility of the notion of Assist Trophies deconfirming finally falling.
So I have two things I believe should be on this list with the advent of Pyra and Mythra's reveal.
The first is the Eastern vs. Western character divide. Of course it had to be Pyra to really bring this debate up, but as you know, the majority of the figher's pass are characters that are more popular in Japan than western territories. You see this brought up with Hero, Terry, and ESPECIALLY Byleth and Pyra. Because characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo are more popular among western, you have people wanting more western characters, so the fact that the majority of the fighters' pass are more popular with Eastern audiences kinda is aggravating to parts of the base who prefers Western characters, even going so far saying nobody cares about characters appealing more to Eastern characters when obviously it isn't true. It really doesn't help that there is a general stigma against anime in general for those who prefer western characters.
This next one might be a bit minor, but it could also supplement the sword fighters entry as well. JRPG characters. The majority of both fighters passes are characters from JRP Gs, a genre people feel is getting too many characters when some feel that Smash is a celebration of video games in general. I believe it's due to the combination of the representative being a sword character and anime looking, which leads people to believe they don't bring anything creative to the table when the characters added clearly show creativity. It can also supplement the Eastern vs. Western argument as well considering JRP Gs are more popular in Japan and any JRPG character can feel obscure to the western fanbase. It should also be noted that almost all the JRP Gs represented are turn-based (Xenoblade being the only exception thus far), which is likely where the "lack creativity" argument comes from due to the fact that there isn't something from an action RPG, like Tales of.
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That all makes sense. This might help another entry, but I feel like I also noticed that the First Party Vs. 3rd Party debate is more heated than ever, likely because of the first pass' additions. Part of the reason Byleth got hate that stacked among others was because they were first party. Subsequently, part of the reason Min Min has vocal hate every now and then was because she was first party, and here we have Pyra/Mythra. Being first party, and having the aforementioned traits western fans hate. It almost feels like these traits western fans seem to oppose overlap, and that's kind of crazy to think about.
All in all, I don't think I've seen people get this heated over a character being first or third party until now.
To stack on yet another thing (sorry if I'm burying what you wanted to say, Ed Boy), both of OP's debates also incorporate the "cartoony vs. realistic" debate, which isn't on the Broken Base page right now, but can be seen under Animation Age Ghetto on YMMV.Super Smash Bros.
Both the "east vs. west" and "JRPG" debates do tend to involve more realistic-looking fighters (see both Fighters Passes, and how so far, all of them contain standard-looking realistically-proportioned humans or human-like beings with only one fighter who isn't in that style; Banjo & Kazooie for FPV1, and Steve for FPV2). This debate is where the derogatory term "cereal mascot" tends to get thrown around to contrast "anime swordfighter".
"Come on! Let's get this show on the road."
Okay, I drafted this up, so feel free to point out anything wrong with this. There probably is a lot wrong, but I do feel it should be on this page at some point.
JRPG Characters: Whether or not Smash has too much of an overrepresentation of a genre that's considered too niche compared to the other genres. The debate about these type of characters started to come to light when the majority of characters between both Fighetrs passes are from JRP Gs with the addition of Pyra and Mythra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2, while all the others are from different genres. Animation Age Ghetto comes into play here, as detractors tend to point out the realistic anime-looking characters looking too similar to each other and their playstyles tend to feel similar as well, something that tends to overlap with the swordfighters debate since the majority of JRPG protagonists use some sort of sword as their weapon of choice. Proponents argue that this also makes room for creative movesets, as it would involve translating a JRPG's battle system into the context of Smash, which led to creative ideas as seen by Hero. It should be noted that the majority of JRP Gs represented thus far are turn-based, with Xenoblade as the exception thus far, and some point to Action RPG franchises like the Tales series to counter the lack of creativity argument. The idea of Smash being a celebration of video games in general can also rile up both sides as well, especially in the Western audience. Detractors argue that franchises that are popular worldwide should be represented and feel that a character from a niche franchise popular in Japan wouldn't bring any hype. Meanwhile, proponents note that Smash has brought up interest in the series that did get represented and has a storng potential to bring each represented series new audiences, like what happened with Fire Emblem and Xenoblade, and even as early as Earthbound. When it comes to JRPG characters, it's an argument about wanting to bring awareness to a niche franchises or to celebrate the more popular franchises.
Would Geno be considered a grumbling point for Smash fans? It seems like there's been a huge push from his supporters to get him in, to the point where he was virtually guaranteed to appear in every DLC prediction video. At the same time there's also a big backlash from people who don't care about the character. This also received a flare up when it was revealed that he'll come back to Ultimate as a Mii Costume, with his fans lamenting the fact and his detractors laughing in the faces of people who wanted him.
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The noise over Geno has been particularly loud since at least late in 4's life-cycle from what I can tell, so I think it might be worth listing here at this point.
"Lucian, don’t be afraid, we’ll make it through this."
I feel like, for a Broken Base entry, the writeup for Geno in this state feels like it's taking a stance when it could stand to be written more neutrally and analyze both sides better. Things like "infamy", "despite what Geno's fans may tell you", "being paraded around as a certainty", "still holding onto the ever diminishing chance that their favorite puppet will be playable", and "blindly trusting" come off as the side that's tired of hearing about Geno bleeding into the paragraph.
For a rewrite, it could use more questioning into the ideas, motives, behaviors, and reactions for both sides (i.e. "why is Geno liked and disliked? How does this demonstrate the base?". None of that is really touched on), how events played out (already handled decently, but could be improved when taking the things added in response to the previous point), how that all ties together into the conclusion (kinda rushed and openly attack-y), and what the future could and/or does hold (ditto), as not a lot of the writeup as it is presently connects with itself beyond the topic that started it.
"Come on! Let's get this show on the road."
It does seem like I've gotten a bit of my personal feelings on the matter into the entry. I'll attempt a rewrite to make it more neutral. Thank you for the feedback!
Always serious, 'cause someone has to be
I knew someone would be brave enough to add Byleth eventually, so let me nip this in the bud now.
Putting aside the fact that the first entry was mostly negative, Byleth is in the exact same limbo that Corrin is. Almost a full year later, there are nowhere near enough people still angry about Byleth's inclusion for them to count as the Scrappy. However, most of the rest of the Smash fanbase doesn't care about Byleth and if they do, they're not very vocal about it. So there aren't enough people who care enough to oppose the people that hate them, meaning they are not a Base-Breaking Character, just like Corrin.
I can't draw Hide / Show Replies
I just think it's petty that these are probably the same people who were mad at Corrin for years and even went on to bombard tweets promoting Fire Emblem Three Houses before it even released.
That said, I have seen people on twitter that are sick of the bashing since 2015, though.
Not an evil Thievul
On a similar note to Chris's question, I've noticed that there seems to be a divide between people who would like to see more third-party characters (believing the games to be a celebration of video gaming as a whole) and those who don't (believing that the games should be first and foremost a celebration of Nintendo) that seems to have gotten especially loud during Ultimate's life-cycle.
Is this Broken Base significant enough to list here?
"Lucian, don’t be afraid, we’ll make it through this." Hide / Show Replies
I personally think it is.
I'm pretty sure there are people out there who probably have the unpopular opinion of being disappointed with the fighters pass due to how the characters are all third party (Save for Banjo, I guess). I think it's even more likely that if the first character after the pass is a first party character, people who were expecting strictly third parties only would get mad, and whoever is the first first party DLC character since Plant would probably take the brunt of it (God forbid this kind of thing doesn't happen to Rex if he just so happens to have that spot), all while Sakurai is just trying to please as many fans as he can.
Edited by BriefCasey795
Tenacious D time!
Would it be okay to add fighting game characters to this page?
It's not as intense as some of the other things here like swordfighters, but I've seen arguments over whether or not Smash should include characters from other fighting games like Tekken and Killer Instinct, both on this site's forums and on others such as GameFAQs and Reddit. It's been an ongoing argument since at least Ryu's inclusion as DLC in Smash 4, and Terry Bogard being Ultimate DLC brought it back up a bit.
Edited by Chris This is not the greatest signature in the world, no... this is just a tribute. Hide / Show Replies
Terribly sorry for the delay, I'm currently getting 3-stocked by pneumonia.
Hmmmm. I'm trying to think about this here. Making it about Fighting games, specifically, would definitely be too narrow/small for this, especially as I have seen similar bouts for a few other genres. That said, you may have found a smaller piece of a bigger, glaring omission. The only issue is I'm struggling to put into words exactly what that omission is, but I know it has something to do with what people think "should" be in Smash, or what's "deserving" to be in. It might be the illness talking, but there's definitely a potential entry we're missing out on here.
How about this: if nobody else shares their thoughts or makes an objection in the next, I dunno, three days(?), you can go ahead with the entry you were thinking of, and I'll tweak/expand it to encompass what I'm thinking of later, assuming someone doesn't beat me to it. Make sure to file it under Broken Base, as it sounds like it's more about the concept of fighting game characters rather than any specific dudes.
- "The only issue is I'm struggling to put into words exactly what that omission is, but I know it has something to do with what people think "should" be in Smash, or what's "deserving" to be in."
I know exactly what you mean. I've seen people on a Discord server claiming that FNAF or Minecraft content doesn't deserve to be in the game based on their opinions, gut feelings, and all that malarkey, ignoring the fact that there's really no valid reason for anybody to be excluded from the game at this point (remove the apostrophes from the below image link for my personal take). So I can see where you're coming from here.
Okay, Corrin's come up a lot so I think it'd be best if we got all the discussion in one place before coming up with a verdict.
Corrin's announcement is by far the most viciously despised character announcement in the history of Smash. There is no denying this - people hated this guy. Every post I saw for about a month was some kind of cutting sarcasm about how stupid the character is. Even I hated Corrin and I still do. However, Corrin is also hardcore proof of why the 6-month rule is in effect - to prevent kneejerk reactions. Hated as he was, that level of venom can't last forever; it's unfeasible.
Now, here's the thing. In the Fire Emblem fandom, Corrin infamously suffers from a massive Vocal Minority that makes them seem more hated than they actually are. This character - who is the protagonist of one of the most commercially and critically successful FE games and who regularly tops popularity polls more than 5 years after release - is a frequent target for shittalking on most forums. They kinda remind me of Sans, where the hatedom is overwhelmingly eclipsed by their fandom, but since the hatedom is louder you kinda tend to notice it more.
You can see this in Smash too, but not quite in the same way - the Smash GameFAQS forums have a Running Gag of hosting a poll where the viewers are asked they would prefer some random crap to be a character instead of Corrin, and they're almost always overwhelmingly against them. Everybody, from Youtube comments to 4chan to Reddit, snarks about this character. You can even see it in all of the now-deleted entries regarding them, as the side that likes them/defends them is often just given a note in passing while focusing on the negative.
Which is exactly the problem.
Almost all conversation regarding this character is extremely one-sided, barring the occasional Sassy Susan who comes in, points out how ridiculously popular they are, and leaves. There needs to be actual animosity between two equally large camps to qualify and the matter of fact is that there's only one - everybody else just does not care. It feels like people are trying to add them here because they view it as the next best thing to The Scrappy or Creator's Pet, which simply isn't how this works.
TLDR: Corrin in the FE fandom is overwhelmingly popular but has a vocal sect of hatred that makes them seem more loathed than they actually are. It's the same in Smash, just replace "popular" with "ignored". Their fans aren't vocal enough to warrant placing here, and their hatedom isn't big enough to warrant placing under The Scrappy.
Edited by DocSharp Hide / Show Replies
Well, if everyone on some websites snarks about the character and they're liked somewhere else, maybe they might actually be divisive? It's a YMMV trope for a reason and you appear to be assuming you can speak for mass segments of various fandoms on your own.
If the character keeps getting readded by plenty of different people, they may actually be divisive enough to note. Think about it.
Edited by N8han11
That's not the point.
In order to qualify as base-breaking, a character must split the fanbase into at least two Vocal factions of similar size. So even if the fans snarking at Corrin weren't in a minority, everyone who isn't snarking at them is indifferent, which isn't a faction.
Since there's only one side to this argument, Corrin doesn't count as a Base-Breaking Character.
I can't draw
But you just said Corrin had vocal fans in the Fire Emblem community, which should by all means translate at least somewhat into the Smash community. You're contradicting your own points.
Most of the Corrin fans that came to/are from Smash aren't vocal, at least not anymore. They've had over 3.5 years to get use to Corrin being in Smash, which is why the people who are still snarking at the character are in the minority.
I can't draw
To be honest, with how many times Ganon's been added and deleted here (and because I figure he's likely going to get readded by other people several more times in the future), I definitely feel like there's a reasonable case to be made regarding how divisive his Moveset Clone portrayal is.
Note that I am not referring to the character himself (considering those who hate him tend to hate the fact he's a Falcon clone rather than the character himself), strictly his Moveset Clone portrayal. Sure, it may seem somewhat agreeable on the surface, but back when I orbited Smashboards there were some pretty vicious Flame Wars and insults being slung around (even threads being locked from time to time).
In fact, I'm pretty sure near every video/article/whatever involving Ganon's moveset I've seen being discussed has had at least some people arguing about wanting it to be changed in the comments section, definitely way more than other characters I've seen. Heck, a bunch of Smash Bros subpages on this site have some mention of people either hating or being divided over the moveset (the YMMV page even mentions it as an example of Fandom Rivalry). Not exactly Friendly Fandoms there, and saying he has "never provoked Flame Wars of any kind" is objectively wrong.
Edited by N8han11
Anyone interested on talking about Hero due to the fact that his RNG mechanics create controversy within the community?
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6 month rule says we can't put him up until I believe January 31st.
For the record, I actually feel confident this one will pass the longevity test - waiting is just part of protocol.
This might be an odd candidate for Broken Base, but there's a good amount of people who believe Mewtwo should NOT be classified as a "villain" fighter (in addition to the Kirby antagonists and even Dark Pit too, but especially with Mewtwo), with some even complaining whenever they're grouped with the villains in fanart and stuff like that. Go on any forum, piece of fanart, or whatever that groups them with the other Smash Bros. villains and read the comments. You'll find atleast ONE person try to argue that they're not a villain.
Because of that, should we list the debate of whether Mewtwo (and maybe the other debatable "villains") counts as a "villain" fighter or not?
Edited by TurtleTropes Hide / Show Replies
I'm not on board with this because it feels like it fits under Fandom-Enraging Misconception better. The "villains" thing is mostly a collection of factual errors stemming from each character's most famous depiction - King Dedede, for one, is pretty much purely a hero, but he's often a boss in the actual Kirby games and the anime depicts him like a total a-hole, so the mistake has basis. It's not so much "two sides going after each other over differing opinions" as it is "people getting cheesed off over others making legitimately uneducated statements".
So.... Pirhanna Plant. Or is he more of a scrappy? (I mean, I personally like his unorthodox moveset so far.)
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Note that no Broken Base exampkes for Ultimate can be added.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
It's too new, right? We need to wait until it's been out long enough for reactions to settle?
Yeah, I suppose so, but at the same time, shouldn't that make Dark Pit exempt too, because he had only been "upgraded" to a BBC with the reveal of echo fighters?
Edited by 420basteit
TBH I just left Dark Pit alone because I know for a fact that a ton of people hate him, and I kinda just took the entry's word for it that he "upgraded". That said, you make a very, very good point. I'll remove him for now.
The DK franchise is not at all unpopular over in Japan. of its games sold over a million copies over there
, the 3DS version of Donkey Kong Country Returns sold over 100k there in its first week charting at no. 1 that week and two of the franchise games were in Famutsu Readers' Top 50 Nintendo games.
I've been on Game FA Qs and Smashboards a lot, and... oh dear god... the hate being thrown at Corrin and Isabelle is awful.
Would Ganondorf fit on the list? I've seen quite a divide between Smash fans who love the "King of Disrespect" and Zelda fans who hate the In-Name-Only version of The King of Evil
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