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* '''[[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]] Not Being Playable''': Waluigi is by far the most infamous character known for not being playable in the ''Smash Bros.'' series (perhaps even more infamous than his exclusion from ''VideoGame/MarioKart7''), despite how frequently requested he is to be in the roster. When he was revealed to not be playable in ''Ultimate'', there was mass disappointment from those who were hoping for him to be PromotedToPlayable (and a handful of Waluigi fans took it too far and decided to harshly harass Masahiro Sakurai), to the point where there are several news pages about Waluigi only appearing in ''Smash Bros.'' as an Assist Trophy once again, and several fans have made their own videos where he finally ''does'' make it in the roster. His luck got even worse when a ''Piranha Plant'' was added to the roster instead of him. Some fans, however, don't mind Waluigi's exclusion, since in his home series, Waluigi has only appeared in spin-off games, is lacking in an iconic moveset, and unlike Mario, Luigi, and Wario, Waluigi has never starred in his own game, making it justified for him to not be playable in ''Smash Bros''.

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* '''[[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]] Not Being Playable''': Waluigi is by far the most infamous character known for not being playable in the ''Smash Bros.'' series (perhaps even more infamous than his exclusion from ''VideoGame/MarioKart7''), despite how frequently requested he is to be in the roster. When he was revealed to not be playable in ''Ultimate'', there was mass disappointment from those who were hoping for him to be PromotedToPlayable (and a handful of Waluigi fans took it too far and decided to harshly harass Masahiro Sakurai), to the point where there are several news pages about Waluigi only appearing in ''Smash Bros.'' as an Assist Trophy once again, and several fans have made their own videos where he finally ''does'' make it in the roster. His luck got even worse when a ''Piranha Plant'' was added to the roster instead of him. Some fans, however, don't mind Waluigi's exclusion, since in his home series, Waluigi has only appeared in spin-off games, is lacking in an iconic moveset, and unlike Mario, Luigi, and Wario, Waluigi has never starred in his own game, making it justified for him to not be playable in ''Smash Bros''. That said, there's also Waluigi fans who don't see why the former should be an issue, as ''VideoGame/MarioKart'' has had a tendency to be a MorePopularSpinOff from ''VideoGame/MarioKartDoubleDash'' onward, and most of Wario's own interactions with Mario are mostly restricted to spin-offs anyway-his only appearances in ''Super Mario'' platformers are being the FinalBoss of ''VideoGame/SuperMarioLand2'', and being playable in ''VideoGame/SuperMario64DS'', and ''only'' the DS remake.
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* '''[[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]] Not Being Playable''': Waluigi is by far the most infamous character known for not being playable in the ''Smash Bros.'' series (perhaps even more infamous than his exclusion from ''VideoGame/MarioKart7''), despite how frequently requested he is to be in the roster. When he was revealed to not be playable in ''Ultimate'', there was mass disappointment from those who were hoping for him to be PromotedToPlayable (and a handful of Waluigi fans took it too far and decided to harshly harass Masahiro Sakurai), to the point where there are several news pages about Waluigi only appearing in ''Smash Bros.'' as an Assist Trophy once again, and several fans have made their own videos where he finally ''does'' make it in the roster. His luck got even worse when a ''Piranha Plant'' was added to the roster instead of him. Some fans, however, don't mind Waluigi's exclusion, since in his home series, Waluigi has only appeared in spin-off games, isn't very interesting of a character because of his lack of a personality, and unlike Mario, Luigi, and Wario, Waluigi has never starred in his own game, making it justified for him to not be playable in ''Smash Bros''.

to:

* '''[[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]] Not Being Playable''': Waluigi is by far the most infamous character known for not being playable in the ''Smash Bros.'' series (perhaps even more infamous than his exclusion from ''VideoGame/MarioKart7''), despite how frequently requested he is to be in the roster. When he was revealed to not be playable in ''Ultimate'', there was mass disappointment from those who were hoping for him to be PromotedToPlayable (and a handful of Waluigi fans took it too far and decided to harshly harass Masahiro Sakurai), to the point where there are several news pages about Waluigi only appearing in ''Smash Bros.'' as an Assist Trophy once again, and several fans have made their own videos where he finally ''does'' make it in the roster. His luck got even worse when a ''Piranha Plant'' was added to the roster instead of him. Some fans, however, don't mind Waluigi's exclusion, since in his home series, Waluigi has only appeared in spin-off games, isn't very interesting of a character because of his lack of a personality, is lacking in an iconic moveset, and unlike Mario, Luigi, and Wario, Waluigi has never starred in his own game, making it justified for him to not be playable in ''Smash Bros''.

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Spelling/grammar fix(es), updating one section to be a bit more accurate to what was said by this incident (I'm guessing this is referring to the few-ish Waluigi fans that ended up blocked by Sakurai) and putting the entry above the Spring Man entry since Waluigi's exclusion predates the other two similar entries by a long time.


* '''[[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]] Not Being Playable''': Waluigi is by far the most infamous character known for not being playable in the ''Smash Bros.'' series (perhaps even more infamous than his exclusion from ''VideoGame/MarioKart7''), despite how frequently requested he is to be in the roster. When he was revealed to not be playable in ''Ultimate'', there was mass disappointment from those who were hoping for him to be PromotedToPlayable (and a handful of Waluigi fans took it too far and decided to harshly harass Masahiro Sakurai), to the point where there are several news pages about Waluigi only appearing in ''Smash Bros.'' as an Assist Trophy once again, and several fans have made their own videos where he finally ''does'' make it in the roster. His luck got even worse when a ''Piranha Plant'' was added to the roster instead of him. Some fans, however, don't mind Waluigi's exclusion, since in his home series, Waluigi has only appeared in spin-off games, isn't very interesting of a character because of his lack of a personality, and unlike Mario, Luigi, and Wario, Waluigi has never starred in his own game, making it justified for him to not be playable in ''Smash Bros''.



* '''[[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]] Not Being Playable''': Waluigi is by far the most infamous character known for not being playable in the ''Smash Bros.'' series (perhaps even more infamous than his exclusion from ''VideoGame/MarioKart7'', despite how frequently requested he is to be in the roster. Waluigi fans took it too far when he was revealed to not be playable in ''Ultimate'' and decide to harshly harass Masahiro Sakurai, to the point where there are several news pages about Waluigi only appearing in ''Smash Bros.'' as an Assist Trophy., and several fans have made their own videos where he finally ''does'' make it in the roster. His luck got even worse when a ''Piranha Plant'' was added to the roster instead of him. Some fans, however, don't mind Waluigi's exclusion, since in his home series, Waluigi has only appeared in spin-off games, isn't very interesting of a character because of his lack of a personality, and unlike Mario, Luigi, and Wario, Waluigi has never starred in his own game, making it justified for him to not be playable in ''Smash Bros''.
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Another big Broken Base entry.

Added DiffLines:

* '''[[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]] Not Being Playable''': Waluigi is by far the most infamous character known for not being playable in the ''Smash Bros.'' series (perhaps even more infamous than his exclusion from ''VideoGame/MarioKart7'', despite how frequently requested he is to be in the roster. Waluigi fans took it too far when he was revealed to not be playable in ''Ultimate'' and decide to harshly harass Masahiro Sakurai, to the point where there are several news pages about Waluigi only appearing in ''Smash Bros.'' as an Assist Trophy., and several fans have made their own videos where he finally ''does'' make it in the roster. His luck got even worse when a ''Piranha Plant'' was added to the roster instead of him. Some fans, however, don't mind Waluigi's exclusion, since in his home series, Waluigi has only appeared in spin-off games, isn't very interesting of a character because of his lack of a personality, and unlike Mario, Luigi, and Wario, Waluigi has never starred in his own game, making it justified for him to not be playable in ''Smash Bros''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* '''Third-Party Characters''': While third-party characters have been around since ''Brawl'' ([[WhatCouldHaveBeen and were nearly included in]] ''Melee''), the fanbase has become increasingly divided over how many third-party characters are too many. Some believe that since the series started out as a celebration of just Nintendo, it should have stayed that way and the multitude of third-party characters the games often bring in detracts from this, while others follow a similar train of thought and see the addition of third-party characters as coming at the expense of first/second-party characters who would make for an excellent addition to the games. Conversely, other fans (including people at Nintendo itself, notably) tend to see ''Smash'' nowadays as a celebration of video games as a whole (that just happens to be made by Nintendo exclusively for their current console) and that being in ''Smash'' is the highest honor that any video game character can get, so thus, there being a bevy of third-party characters is no big deal. Even some people who don't care for them acknowledge that their inclusion gets people who don't care about/aren't fans of Nintendo's franchises to buy ''Smash'' just to try out the third-party character they like. The debate got especially heated during ''Ultimate''[='=]s life-cycle due to not only all of the previous third-party characters returning, but adding three more in the base roster and eight more via [[DownloadableContent the Fighters Passes]] on top of that, for a total of 18; to put that into perspective, over 1/5th of the current ''Smash'' roster has now hailed from third-parties[[note]]Those being ''VideoGame/MetalGear''[='=]s Solid Snake from Creator/{{Konami}}, Creator/{{Sega}}'s Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog, Creator/{{Capcom}}'s Franchise/MegaMan, Creator/BandaiNamcoEntertainment's VideoGame/PacMan and [[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]], ''Franchise/StreetFighter''[='=]s Ryu and Ken from Creator/{{Capcom}}, ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII''[='=]s Cloud Strife and Sephiroth from Creator/SquareEnix, VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} (whose games, granted, are still ''published'' by Nintendo despite being developed by Creator/PlatinumGames and the IP owned by Creator/{{Sega}}), ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''[='=]s Simon and Richter Belmont from Creator/{{Konami}}, ''VideoGame/Persona5''[='=]s Joker from Creator/{{Atlus}}, the Heroes of Creator/SquareEnix's ''Franchise/DragonQuest'', VideoGame/BanjoKazooie (which ''used'' to be a second-party Nintendo property before developer Creator/{{Rare}}'s sale to [[Creator/XboxGameStudios Microsoft]]), Creator/{{SNK}}'s [[VideoGame/FatalFury Terry]] [[VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters Bogard]], ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}''[='=]s Steve from Creator/XboxGameStudios (previously Mojang), and ''Franchise/KingdomHearts''[='s=] Sora from Creator/{{Disney}}[[/note]]. There's also debates as to whether or not third-party characters are automatically more iconic than any potential first-party that still isn't playable: Those who agree with it point to how ''Minecraft'' is the best selling game of all time, and how franchises like ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' and ''Final Fantasy'' are bigger [[CashCowFranchise cash cows]] than most Nintendo franchises who still don't have playable characters, while those who disagree point out that the games' third-party selections also includes more niche franchises like ''Bayonetta'' and ''Banjo-Kazooie'', and franchises whose popularity is very region-dependent like ''Dragon Quest'' and ''Fatal Fury''.

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* '''Third-Party Characters''': While third-party characters have been around since ''Brawl'' ([[WhatCouldHaveBeen and were nearly included in]] ''Melee''), the fanbase has become increasingly divided over how many third-party characters are too many. Some believe that since the series started out as a celebration of just Nintendo, it should have stayed that way and the multitude of third-party characters the games often bring in detracts from this, while others follow a similar train of thought and see the addition of third-party characters as coming at the expense of first/second-party characters who would make for an excellent addition to the games. Conversely, other fans (including people at Nintendo itself, notably) tend to see ''Smash'' nowadays as a celebration of video games as a whole (that just happens to be made by Nintendo exclusively for their current console) and that being in ''Smash'' is the highest honor that any video game character can get, so thus, there being a bevy of third-party characters is no big deal. Even some people who don't care for them acknowledge that their inclusion gets people who don't care about/aren't fans of Nintendo's franchises to buy ''Smash'' just to try out the third-party character they like. The debate got especially heated during ''Ultimate''[='=]s life-cycle due to not only all of the previous third-party characters returning, but adding three more in the base roster and eight more via [[DownloadableContent the Fighters Passes]] on top of that, for a total of 18; to put that into perspective, over 1/5th of the current ''Smash'' roster has now hailed from third-parties[[note]]Those being ''VideoGame/MetalGear''[='=]s Solid Snake from Creator/{{Konami}}, Creator/{{Sega}}'s Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog, Creator/{{Capcom}}'s Franchise/MegaMan, Creator/BandaiNamcoEntertainment's VideoGame/PacMan and [[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]], ''Franchise/StreetFighter''[='=]s Ryu and Ken from Creator/{{Capcom}}, ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII''[='=]s Cloud Strife and Sephiroth from Creator/SquareEnix, VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} (whose games, granted, are still ''published'' by Nintendo despite being developed by Creator/PlatinumGames and the IP owned by Creator/{{Sega}}), ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''[='=]s Simon and Richter Belmont from Creator/{{Konami}}, ''VideoGame/Persona5''[='=]s Joker from Creator/{{Atlus}}, the Heroes of Creator/SquareEnix's ''Franchise/DragonQuest'', VideoGame/BanjoKazooie (which ''used'' to be a second-party Nintendo property before developer Creator/{{Rare}}'s sale to [[Creator/XboxGameStudios Microsoft]]), Creator/{{SNK}}'s [[VideoGame/FatalFury Terry]] [[VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters Bogard]], ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}''[='=]s Steve from Creator/XboxGameStudios (previously Mojang), and ''Franchise/KingdomHearts''[='s=] Sora from Creator/{{Disney}}[[/note]]. There's also debates as to whether or not third-party characters are automatically more iconic than any potential first-party that still isn't playable: Those who agree with it point to how ''Minecraft'' is the best selling game of all time, and how franchises like ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' and ''Final Fantasy'' are bigger [[CashCowFranchise cash cows]] than most Nintendo franchises who still don't have playable characters, while those who disagree point out that the games' third-party selections also includes more niche franchises like ''Bayonetta'' and ''Banjo-Kazooie'', and franchises whose popularity is very region-dependent like ''Dragon Quest'' and ''Fatal Fury''.Fury'', and/or that the massive popularity of Nintendo franchises such as ''Super Mario'', ''Pokémon'', or ''The Legend of Zelda'' would mean they have characters with millions of fans that still aren't playable in ''Smash'', but that then leads to debates on whether or not the franchises have too much/too little/just enough, as mentioned in the "Perceived Over/Under-representation" sections.
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** Although Steve's inclusion was warmly welcomed, it also exposed a major rivalry between fans of more "classic" characters (who were excited about Terry and were expecting new fighters like [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]], [[VideoGame/DevilMayCry Dante]], VideoGame/{{Shantae}}, VideoGame/CrashBandicoot, or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]]) and fans of characters from more recent games that are frequently viral (who were excited for the Sans and Cuphead costumes). The former accuse the latter of only caring about the meme potential of fighters and not about what would work best with the series' original mission, frequently unfavorably citing potential fighters from trendy [[TheNewTens 2010s]] games such as ''VideoGame/FiveNightsAtFreddys'', ''VideoGame/{{Fortnite}}'', ''VideoGame/AngryBirds'', ''VideoGame/FallGuysUltimateKnockout'', or ''VideoGame/AmongUs'' as options if the group gets its way. The latter accuses the former of having a NostalgiaFilter and believing that ''Smash'' should [[FanMyopia only appeal to 90s kids]], as well as not caring about some of the extremely popular newer games that could have representation in ''Smash''.

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** Although Steve's inclusion was warmly welcomed, it also exposed a major rivalry between fans of more "classic" characters (who were excited about Terry and were expecting new fighters like [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]], [[VideoGame/DevilMayCry Dante]], VideoGame/{{Shantae}}, VideoGame/CrashBandicoot, or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]]) and fans of characters from more recent games that are frequently viral (who were excited for the Sans and Cuphead costumes). The former accuse the latter of only caring about the meme potential of fighters and not about what would work best with the series' original mission, frequently unfavorably citing potential fighters from trendy [[TheNewTens 2010s]] games such as ''VideoGame/FiveNightsAtFreddys'', ''VideoGame/{{Fortnite}}'', ''VideoGame/AngryBirds'', ''VideoGame/FallGuysUltimateKnockout'', or ''VideoGame/AmongUs'' as options if the group gets its way.way or otherwise they're concerned about the game becoming too much of an UnintentionalPeriodPiece since what's modern now isn't necessarily going to be modern forever. The latter accuses the former of having a NostalgiaFilter and believing that ''Smash'' should [[FanMyopia only appeal to 90s kids]], as well as not caring about some of the extremely popular newer games that could have representation in ''Smash''.



* '''Third-Party Characters''': While third-party characters have been around since ''Brawl'' ([[WhatCouldHaveBeen and were nearly included in]] ''Melee''), the fanbase has become increasingly divided over how many third-party characters are too many. Some believe that since the series started out as a celebration of just Nintendo, it should have stayed that way and the multitude of third-party characters the games often bring in detracts from this, while others follow a similar train of thought and see the addition of third-party characters as coming at the expense of first/second-party characters who would make for an excellent addition to the games. Conversely, other fans (including people at Nintendo itself, notably) tend to see ''Smash'' nowadays as a celebration of video games as a whole (that just happens to be made by Nintendo exclusively for their current console) and that being in ''Smash'' is the highest honor that any video game character can get, so thus, there being a bevy of third-party characters is no big deal. Even some people who don't care for them acknowledge that their inclusion gets people who don't care about/aren't fans of Nintendo's franchises to buy ''Smash'' just to try out the third-party character they like. The debate got especially heated during ''Ultimate''[='=]s life-cycle due to not only all of the previous third-party characters returning, but adding three more in the base roster and eight more via [[DownloadableContent the Fighters Passes]] on top of that, for a total of 18; to put that into perspective, over 1/5th of the current ''Smash'' roster has now hailed from third-parties[[note]]Those being ''VideoGame/MetalGear''[='=]s Solid Snake from Creator/{{Konami}}, Creator/{{Sega}}'s Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog, Creator/{{Capcom}}'s Franchise/MegaMan, Creator/BandaiNamcoEntertainment's VideoGame/PacMan and [[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]], ''Franchise/StreetFighter''[='=]s Ryu and Ken from Creator/{{Capcom}}, ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII''[='=]s Cloud Strife and Sephiroth from Creator/SquareEnix, VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} (whose games, granted, are still ''published'' by Nintendo despite being developed by Creator/PlatinumGames and the IP owned by Creator/{{Sega}}), ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''[='=]s Simon and Richter Belmont from Creator/{{Konami}}, ''VideoGame/Persona5''[='=]s Joker from Creator/{{Atlus}}, the Heroes of Creator/SquareEnix's ''Franchise/DragonQuest'', VideoGame/BanjoKazooie (which ''used'' to be a second-party Nintendo property before developer Creator/{{Rare}}'s sale to [[Creator/XboxGameStudios Microsoft]]), Creator/{{SNK}}'s [[VideoGame/FatalFury Terry]] [[VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters Bogard]], ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}''[='=]s Steve from Creator/XboxGameStudios (previously Mojang), and ''Franchise/KingdomHearts''[='s=] Sora from Creator/{{Disney}}[[/note]].

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* '''Third-Party Characters''': While third-party characters have been around since ''Brawl'' ([[WhatCouldHaveBeen and were nearly included in]] ''Melee''), the fanbase has become increasingly divided over how many third-party characters are too many. Some believe that since the series started out as a celebration of just Nintendo, it should have stayed that way and the multitude of third-party characters the games often bring in detracts from this, while others follow a similar train of thought and see the addition of third-party characters as coming at the expense of first/second-party characters who would make for an excellent addition to the games. Conversely, other fans (including people at Nintendo itself, notably) tend to see ''Smash'' nowadays as a celebration of video games as a whole (that just happens to be made by Nintendo exclusively for their current console) and that being in ''Smash'' is the highest honor that any video game character can get, so thus, there being a bevy of third-party characters is no big deal. Even some people who don't care for them acknowledge that their inclusion gets people who don't care about/aren't fans of Nintendo's franchises to buy ''Smash'' just to try out the third-party character they like. The debate got especially heated during ''Ultimate''[='=]s life-cycle due to not only all of the previous third-party characters returning, but adding three more in the base roster and eight more via [[DownloadableContent the Fighters Passes]] on top of that, for a total of 18; to put that into perspective, over 1/5th of the current ''Smash'' roster has now hailed from third-parties[[note]]Those being ''VideoGame/MetalGear''[='=]s Solid Snake from Creator/{{Konami}}, Creator/{{Sega}}'s Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog, Creator/{{Capcom}}'s Franchise/MegaMan, Creator/BandaiNamcoEntertainment's VideoGame/PacMan and [[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]], ''Franchise/StreetFighter''[='=]s Ryu and Ken from Creator/{{Capcom}}, ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII''[='=]s Cloud Strife and Sephiroth from Creator/SquareEnix, VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} (whose games, granted, are still ''published'' by Nintendo despite being developed by Creator/PlatinumGames and the IP owned by Creator/{{Sega}}), ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''[='=]s Simon and Richter Belmont from Creator/{{Konami}}, ''VideoGame/Persona5''[='=]s Joker from Creator/{{Atlus}}, the Heroes of Creator/SquareEnix's ''Franchise/DragonQuest'', VideoGame/BanjoKazooie (which ''used'' to be a second-party Nintendo property before developer Creator/{{Rare}}'s sale to [[Creator/XboxGameStudios Microsoft]]), Creator/{{SNK}}'s [[VideoGame/FatalFury Terry]] [[VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters Bogard]], ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}''[='=]s Steve from Creator/XboxGameStudios (previously Mojang), and ''Franchise/KingdomHearts''[='s=] Sora from Creator/{{Disney}}[[/note]]. There's also debates as to whether or not third-party characters are automatically more iconic than any potential first-party that still isn't playable: Those who agree with it point to how ''Minecraft'' is the best selling game of all time, and how franchises like ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' and ''Final Fantasy'' are bigger [[CashCowFranchise cash cows]] than most Nintendo franchises who still don't have playable characters, while those who disagree point out that the games' third-party selections also includes more niche franchises like ''Bayonetta'' and ''Banjo-Kazooie'', and franchises whose popularity is very region-dependent like ''Dragon Quest'' and ''Fatal Fury''.

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tried to merge in details from ultimate's fandom rivalry entries (which read more like broken base).


*** '''Representing the Latest''': Within the ''Fire Emblem'' fandom, there's some infighting over how their series' representation in ''Smash'' always seems to skew towards the latest release (with Marth being the only one who didn't come out at or near the time his games released), sometimes involving how this representation taints the view of the series for non-''FE'' fans. In particular, the fact that ''Awakening'' has three fighters in ''Smash'' is either perfectly fine because the game was a KillerApp for the 3DS and [[NewbieBoom introduced a large number of new people to the series]], or completely unreasonable because of the blatant favoritism and the fact that there are more than 20 years of games with plenty of unique and beloved characters to pick from.



* '''Representing the Latest vs. the Classics''': Due to gaming culture in general evolving over time, there's been considerable contention about whether the ''Smash'' character roster should reflect that, or if it should stick to more classic and "retro" characters. This rivalry has manifested in a number of ways over the years:
** ''Fire Emblem'' characters commonly reflect the most recently released title at the time (with Marth being the only one who didn't come out at or near the time his games released). ''Awakening'' having three fighters in ''Smash'' is either perfectly fine because the game was a KillerApp for the 3DS and [[NewbieBoom introduced a large number of new people to the series]], or completely unreasonable because of the blatant favoritism and the fact that there are more than 20 years of games with plenty of unique and beloved characters to pick from.
** A potential Microsoft representative was generally welcomed across the fanbase, but who exactly that representative should be was a subject of debate for several years. This was almost entirely between the more modern [[VideoGame/{{Minecraft}} Steve]] and the very retro [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Banjo & Kazooie]], with characters like [[Franchise/{{Halo}} Master Chief]] being occasionally thrown around. Arguments were very vicious on whether a character from an old, beloved, but "dead" series, or someone from a more recent and incredibly popular game, ''deserved'' to be in the game more. This debate would eventually cease when both Steve and Banjo-Kazooie were added to ''Ultimate''.
** The DLC for ''Ultimate'' really caused this debate to intensify, first with the divide between people who were more excited for Terry Bogard being playable and people who were more excited that Sans of all characters became a Mii Costume. The former group argues that Terry is an iconic face of classic fighting games that just isn't as well known with modern audiences, while the latter group argues that Sans is a very iconic modern gaming character that shouldn't be snubbed just because he hasn't existed for as long as Terry has.
** Although Steve's inclusion was warmly welcomed, it also exposed a major rivalry between fans of more "classic" characters (who were excited about Terry and were expecting new fighters like [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]], [[VideoGame/DevilMayCry Dante]], VideoGame/{{Shantae}}, VideoGame/CrashBandicoot, or [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip]]) and fans of characters from more recent games that are frequently viral (who were excited for the Sans and Cuphead costumes). The former accuse the latter of only caring about the meme potential of fighters and not about what would work best with the series' original mission, frequently unfavorably citing potential fighters from trendy [[TheNewTens 2010s]] games such as ''VideoGame/FiveNightsAtFreddys'', ''VideoGame/{{Fortnite}}'', ''VideoGame/AngryBirds'', ''VideoGame/FallGuysUltimateKnockout'', or ''VideoGame/AmongUs'' as options if the group gets its way. The latter accuses the former of having a NostalgiaFilter and believing that ''Smash'' should [[FanMyopia only appeal to 90s kids]], as well as not caring about some of the extremely popular newer games that could have representation in ''Smash''.



* '''[[EasternRPG JRPG]] fans vs [[PlatformGame Platformer]] fans''': Starting after Pyra & Mythra's addition, these two groups got into {{Flame War}}s (and associated memes with the [=Swordguy McJRPG=] and Scrimblo Bimblo posts) over whether the final two DLC fighters should be from their favored genres, as well as claims from the platformer crowd that the sudden influx of JRPG characters [[labelnote:For reference]]''Ultimate'' added Chrom, Joker, Hero, Byleth, Sephiroth, and Pyra & Mythra (as well as Incineroar, but ''Pokémon'' tends to be discounted due to it not often using tropes associated with the genre)[[/labelnote]] takes away from chances for other popular platformer characters to be showcased in the game. JRPG fans often point out that ''Smash'' and a vast majority of the companies involved in its production and licenses are Japanese, and that platformer fans shouldn't write off the chances of a JRPG character, considering how big the genre is in the country where ''Smash'' is centered and the genre has been getting awareness that's been steadily growing bigger since 2017. Another point that is brought up is that the base game already had quite a few characters from platformers.[[note]]Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Samus, Kirby, Sonic, Pit, Simon, and Mega Man are the major ones, and this isn't even including other characters who also come from the same series as them or franchises in other genres who have had platforming games, like Pac-Man. However, just like how Incineroar isn't lumped together with the JRPG characters, Samus, Simon and their ilk and occasionally Pit are excluded from the entire "Scrimblo Bimblo" stereotype due to their not using tropes associated with the platforming genre.[[/note]] Platformer fans often point out that nearly every JRPG represented in ''Smash'' revolves around {{Animesque}} protagonist humans, humanoids, or HumansByAnyOtherName wielding a sword (tying into the "anime swordfighter" debates) when there are dozens of [=JRPGs=] that go outside of that mold, and that "Scrimblo Bimblo" is a false equivalency since most platformer characters are designed to be diverse in appearance and behavior. Meanwhile, other people who don't have a horse on either side think that both JRPG ''and'' platformer fans have no room to fight over who "deserves" new content, as they both already have solid representation, when there are several other genres, such as {{rhythm game}}s, {{racing game}}s, {{puzzle game}}s, [[BeatEmUp beat 'em ups]], [[ShootEmUp shoot 'em ups]], and [[FirstPersonShooter first-person]] and [[ThirdPersonShooter third-person]] shooters, that have little-to-nothing in ''Smash'' and could use the representation much more than those two. Both sides would later take an L when the second last choice turned out to be Kazuya Mishima from the ''Franchise/{{Tekken}}'' series, a FightingGame character. Later still, both sides would actually win out with the same final character: Sora from ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' who happens to have elements of what both sides would want.

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* '''[[EasternRPG JRPG]] fans vs [[PlatformGame Platformer]] fans''': Starting after Pyra & Mythra's addition, these These two groups got into {{Flame War}}s (and associated memes with sections of gamers are sharply divided on the [=Swordguy McJRPG=] state of the roster and Scrimblo Bimblo posts) over whether the final two DLC fighters from where characters should be from their favored genres, as well as claims from the platformer crowd that the sudden influx of pooled from. Namecalling is frequent in these debates, with JRPG characters [[labelnote:For reference]]''Ultimate'' added Chrom, Joker, Hero, Byleth, Sephiroth, frequently being derided as "generic anime swordspeople" or "[=Swordguy McJRPG=]", and Pyra & Mythra (as well as Incineroar, but ''Pokémon'' tends to be discounted due to it not often using tropes associated with the genre)[[/labelnote]] takes away from chances for other popular platformer characters to be showcased in the game.being labelled "Cereal Box Mascots" and "Scrimblo Bimblos". JRPG fans often point out that ''Smash'' and a vast majority of the companies involved in its production and licenses are Japanese, and that platformer fans shouldn't write off the chances of a JRPG character, considering how big the genre is in the country where ''Smash'' is centered and the genre has been getting awareness that's been steadily growing bigger since 2017. Another point that is brought up is that the base game already had quite a few characters from platformers.[[note]]Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Samus, Kirby, Sonic, Pit, Simon, and Mega Man are the major ones, and this isn't even including other characters who also come from the same series as them or franchises in other genres who have had platforming games, like Pac-Man. However, just like how Incineroar isn't lumped together with the JRPG characters, Samus, Simon and their ilk and occasionally Pit are excluded from the entire "Scrimblo Bimblo" stereotype due to their not using tropes associated with the platforming genre.[[/note]] Platformer fans often point out feel that nearly every JRPG represented in ''Smash'' revolves around {{Animesque}} protagonist humans, humanoids, or HumansByAnyOtherName wielding a sword (tying into the "anime swordfighter" debates) when there are dozens of [=JRPGs=] that go outside of that mold, and that "Scrimblo Bimblo" is a false equivalency since most platformer characters are designed to be diverse in appearance and behavior. Meanwhile, other people who don't have a horse on either side think that both JRPG ''and'' platformer fans have no room to fight over who "deserves" new content, as they both already have solid representation, when there are several other genres, such as {{rhythm game}}s, {{racing game}}s, {{puzzle game}}s, [[BeatEmUp beat 'em ups]], [[ShootEmUp shoot 'em ups]], and [[FirstPersonShooter first-person]] and [[ThirdPersonShooter third-person]] shooters, that have little-to-nothing in ''Smash'' and could use the representation much more than those two. It really intensified after Pyra & Mythra's addition, due to claims from the platformer crowd that the sudden influx of JRPG characters [[labelnote:For reference]]''Ultimate'' added Chrom, Joker, Hero, Byleth, Sephiroth, and Pyra & Mythra (as well as Incineroar, but ''Pokémon'' tends to be discounted due to it not often using tropes associated with the genre)[[/labelnote]] takes away from chances for other popular platformer characters to be showcased in the game, and since there were only two DLC slots left by this point the two groups got into nasty {{Flame War}}s about which genres the final two characters should come from. It got so bad that when a Twitter fan pool held in the leadup to E3 2021 had Euden of ''VideoGame/DragaliaLost'' beat Crash, the controversy it started caused JRPG and Platformer to trend on the site. Both sides would later take an L when the second to last choice turned out to be Kazuya Mishima from the ''Franchise/{{Tekken}}'' series, a FightingGame character. Later still, both sides would actually win out with the same final character: Sora from ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' who happens to have elements of what both sides would want.
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* '''Safe Speculation''': Is sticking to a small pool of characters like VideoGame/CrashBandicoot, [[VideoGame/NinjaGaiden Ryu Hayabusa]], and a Pokémon from ''VideoGame/PokemonSwordAndShield'' that seem to have a ton of points in their favor the right way to speculate, or has ''Ultimate'' 's DLC given us too many [[UnexpectedCharacter Unexpected Characters]] for these to truly be safe bets? This has especially become a heated topic of discussion during Fighters Pass 2, as it started with a character from ''VideoGame/{{ARMS}}'', a first-party considered to be extremely unlikely because it was almost three years old[[labelnote:note]]Granted, had ARMS been released earlier, a fighter from ARMS would have certainly been included in the base game itself.[[/labelnote]], and then later added [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Sephiroth]], who despite his popularity and ability to fix ''Final Fantasy VII''[='s=] lack of music and spirits, was not commonly brought up as a potential newcomer. The Smash fanbase sticking to the same character choices can leave them blind to other options that in hindsight were more obvious, leading to situations where [[VideoGame/{{Minecraft}} Steve]], from the best-selling game ''ever'', was seen as a "meme pick" and not taken seriously as an option, while [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]] and [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]]--both characters from [=RPGs=] that only had modest sales upon release, haven't appeared in a new game in a long time, and are virtually unknown outside of the ''Smash'' community--were seen as "obvious choices" because they've been mentioned so much by other fans. There's also the argument against disregarding what are dubbed "fan rules", because there needs to be ''some'' process of elimination if the goal is to make an accurate prediction on which character will appear in ''Smash'' as a fighter. However, there comes a point where these rules are basically an individual's personal biases to justify characters they want or don't want, especially with the latter (see some of the other entries in this page such as swordfighters, JRPG characters, etc). At times, such speculation raises questions as to whether some characters constantly mentioned are out of real love for the character or series.[[labelnote:For example...]][[VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia Lloyd Irving]] is a character that's commonly mentioned to represent the ''VideoGame/TalesSeries'', as ''Tales of Symphonia'' was a common starting point for most fans of the series simply because it was on the [[UsefulNotes/NintendoGameCube GameCube]]. However, not only does Lloyd fall under stigmatic categories (swordfighter, JRPG character, etc.), some that speculate Lloyd are unaware that more ''Tales'' games exist outside of ''Symphonia'', which is why [[VideoGame/TalesOfVesperia Yuri Lowell]], who is consistently the most popular character in the ''Tales'' series, hardly gets any mentions despite his status and ''Vesperia'' being just as popular. That said, the Lloyd Mii costume did comeback for ''Ultimate.''[[/labelnote]] Another thing to point out is that a lot of the characters that are brought up constantly are ones that fans have been asking for since ''Super Smash Bros Brawl'', which is a GamblersFallacy (my character choice didn't make it into this game, surely they'll appear in the DLC or the next game right?).

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* '''Safe Speculation''': Is sticking to a small pool of characters like VideoGame/CrashBandicoot, [[VideoGame/NinjaGaiden Ryu Hayabusa]], and a Pokémon from ''VideoGame/PokemonSwordAndShield'' that seem to have a ton of points in their favor the right way to speculate, or has ''Ultimate'' 's DLC given us too many [[UnexpectedCharacter Unexpected Characters]] for these to truly be safe bets? This has especially become a heated topic of discussion during Fighters Pass 2, as it started with a character from ''VideoGame/{{ARMS}}'', a first-party considered to be extremely unlikely because it was almost three years old[[labelnote:note]]Granted, had ARMS been released earlier, a fighter from ARMS would have certainly been included in the base game itself.[[/labelnote]], and then later added [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Sephiroth]], who despite his popularity and ability to fix ''Final Fantasy VII''[='s=] lack of music and spirits, was not commonly brought up as a potential newcomer. The Smash fanbase sticking to the same character choices can leave them blind to other options that in hindsight were more obvious, leading to situations where [[VideoGame/{{Minecraft}} Steve]], from the best-selling game ''ever'', was seen as a "meme pick" and not taken seriously as an option, while [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]] and [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]]--both characters from [=RPGs=] that only had modest sales upon release, haven't appeared in a new game in a long time, and are virtually unknown outside of the ''Smash'' community--were seen as "obvious choices" because they've been mentioned so much by other fans. There's also the argument against disregarding what are dubbed "fan rules", because there needs to be ''some'' process of elimination if the goal is to make an accurate prediction on which character will appear in ''Smash'' as a fighter. However, there comes a point where these rules are basically an individual's personal biases to justify characters they want or don't want, especially with the latter (see some of the other entries in this page such as swordfighters, JRPG characters, etc). At times, such speculation raises questions as to whether some characters constantly mentioned are out of real love for the character or series.[[labelnote:For example...]][[VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia Lloyd Irving]] is a character that's commonly mentioned to represent the ''VideoGame/TalesSeries'', as ''Tales of Symphonia'' was a common starting point for most fans of the series simply because it was on the [[UsefulNotes/NintendoGameCube [[Platform/NintendoGameCube GameCube]]. However, not only does Lloyd fall under stigmatic categories (swordfighter, JRPG character, etc.), some that speculate Lloyd are unaware that more ''Tales'' games exist outside of ''Symphonia'', which is why [[VideoGame/TalesOfVesperia Yuri Lowell]], who is consistently the most popular character in the ''Tales'' series, hardly gets any mentions despite his status and ''Vesperia'' being just as popular. That said, the Lloyd Mii costume did comeback for ''Ultimate.''[[/labelnote]] Another thing to point out is that a lot of the characters that are brought up constantly are ones that fans have been asking for since ''Super Smash Bros Brawl'', which is a GamblersFallacy (my character choice didn't make it into this game, surely they'll appear in the DLC or the next game right?).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
spelling/grammar fix(es)


* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Rex]] Not Being Playable''': Despite being a BaseBreakingCharacter in his home game, he was highly requested during the pre-release phase of ''Ultimate'' and was commonly speculated as a duo fighter with the Aegis, only for his chances to have been seemingly nipped in the bud with the announcement of his Mii Costume as a purchase bonus for the first Fighters Pass, much to the dismay of many of his supporters. Min Min's announcement roughly 2 years later would then revive hope for his inclusion due to both of their home games being unable to get fighters in the base game due to time constraints, only for Pyra and Mythra to be the playable representatives of the game instead of him about another year later[[note]]He'd still have occasional appearances in their moveset, similar to Chrom in ''Smash 4''[[/note]]. Even after the March presentation revealed he was initially planned and was only dropped due to hardware limitations, along with his wide presence for a "support character", fans within both the ''Smash'' and ''Xenoblade'' fandoms have been split on whether this was the right choice. Those content with Pyra and Mythra state that their inclusion is justified given their [[PopularityPower popularity]], and they offer a more unique experience with them being semiclones of each other and their ability to swap. Those who wanted a playable Rex feel how only the Aegis being playable sides with his detractors[[labelnote:*]](A joke in the presentation didn't help this either, as it gave them something to focus on [[AccentuateTheNegative despite the preceding reveal of the initial plans and his large presence]], which didn't help any Rex fans upset by his MemeticLoser status exacerbating when it looked like he would finally avert it)[[/labelnote]], panders to those [[MsFanservice solely attracted to them for their looks]], and worsens existing {{Fandom Enraging Misconception}}s for the Aegis and their home game (as surface-level arguments about [[BestKnownForTheFanservice their designs and if they're all there is to the game]] were reignited following the reveal). Another camp who wanted both him and the Aegis playable also lament how the Driver and Blade system could not be translated to ''Smash'', with some also saying the reveal [[YankTheDogsChain cheated them with how the trailer's buildup was framed]] looked like they were indeed going to be a duo fighter as previously speculated. The ambiguity of ''Smash's'' future after ''Ultimate'' certainly doesn't help this, meaning it's uncertain if Rex will even get a chance to become playable in a future installment much like Chrom before him, let alone if the Aegis (or even Shulk) will also return. Then there's the possibility of a ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles3'' rep and if it could stand against his chances due to theoretical resource reasons.

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* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Rex]] Not Being Playable''': Despite being a BaseBreakingCharacter in his home game, he was highly requested during the pre-release phase of ''Ultimate'' and was commonly speculated as a duo fighter with the Aegis, only for his chances to have been seemingly nipped in the bud with the announcement of his Mii Costume as a purchase bonus for the first Fighters Pass, much to the dismay of many of his supporters. Min Min's announcement roughly 2 years later would then revive hope for his inclusion due to both of their home games being unable to get fighters in the base game due to time constraints, only for Pyra and Mythra to be the playable representatives of the game instead of him about another year later[[note]]He'd still have occasional appearances in their moveset, similar to Chrom in ''Smash 4''[[/note]]. Even after the March presentation revealed he was initially planned and was only dropped due to hardware limitations, along with his wide presence for a "support character", fans within both the ''Smash'' and ''Xenoblade'' fandoms have been split on whether this was the right choice. Those content with Pyra and Mythra state that their inclusion is justified given their [[PopularityPower popularity]], and they offer a more unique experience with them being semiclones of each other and their ability to swap. Those who wanted a playable Rex feel how only the Aegis being playable sides with his detractors[[labelnote:*]](A joke in the presentation didn't help this either, as it gave them something to focus on [[AccentuateTheNegative despite the preceding reveal of the initial plans and his large presence]], which presence]]. This didn't help any Rex fans upset by his MemeticLoser status exacerbating when it looked like he would finally avert it)[[/labelnote]], panders to those [[MsFanservice solely attracted to them for their looks]], and worsens existing {{Fandom Enraging Misconception}}s for the Aegis and their home game (as surface-level arguments about [[BestKnownForTheFanservice their designs and if they're all there is to the game]] were reignited following the reveal). Another camp who wanted both him and the Aegis playable also lament how the Driver and Blade system could not be translated to ''Smash'', with some also saying the reveal [[YankTheDogsChain cheated them with how the trailer's buildup was framed]] looked like they were indeed going to be a duo fighter as previously speculated. The ambiguity of ''Smash's'' future after ''Ultimate'' certainly doesn't help this, meaning it's uncertain if Rex will even get a chance to become playable in a future installment much like Chrom before him, let alone if the Aegis (or even Shulk) will also return. Then there's the possibility of a ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles3'' rep and if it could stand against his chances due to theoretical resource reasons.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
spelling/grammar fix(es), added example(s)


* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Rex]] Not Being Playable''': Despite being a BaseBreakingCharacter in his home game, he was highly requested during the pre-release phase of ''Ultimate'' and was commonly speculated as a duo fighter with the Aegis, only for his chances to have been seemingly nipped in the bud with the announcement of his Mii Costume as a purchase bonus for the first Fighters Pass, much to the dismay of many of his supporters. Min Min's announcement roughly 2 years later would then revive hope for his inclusion due to both of their home games being unable to get fighters in the base game due to time constraints, only for Pyra and Mythra to be the playable representatives of the game instead of him about another year later[[note]]He'd still have occasional appearances in their moveset, similar to Chrom in ''Smash 4''[[/note]]. Even after the March presentation revealed he was initially planned and was only dropped due to hardware limitations, along with his wide presence for a "support character", fans within both the ''Smash'' and ''Xenoblade'' fandoms have been split on whether this was the right choice. Those content with Pyra and Mythra state that their inclusion is justified given their [[PopularityPower popularity]], and they offer a more unique experience with them being semiclones of each other and their ability to swap. Those who wanted a playable Rex feel how only the Aegis being playable sides with his detractors[[labelnote:*]](A joke in the presentation didn't help this either, as it gave them something to focus on [[AccentuateTheNegative despite the preceding reveal of the initial plans and his large presence]])[[/labelnote]], plays favoritism to those [[MsFanservice solely attracted to them for their looks]], and worsens an existing FandomEnragingMisconception for their home game, citing how surface-level arguments about [[BestKnownForTheFanservice their designs and if they're all there is to the game]] were reignited following the reveal. Another camp who wanted both him and the Aegis playable also lament how the Driver and Blade system could not be translated to ''Smash'', with some also saying the reveal [[YankTheDogsChain cheated them with how the trailer's buildup was framed]] looked like they were indeed going to be a duo fighter as previously speculated. The ambiguity of ''Smash's'' future after ''Ultimate'' certainly doesn't help this, meaning it's uncertain if Rex will even get a chance to become playable in a future installment much like Chrom before him, let alone if the Aegis (or even Shulk) will also return. Then there's the possibility of a ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles3'' rep and if it could stand against his chances due to theoretical resource reasons.

to:

* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Rex]] Not Being Playable''': Despite being a BaseBreakingCharacter in his home game, he was highly requested during the pre-release phase of ''Ultimate'' and was commonly speculated as a duo fighter with the Aegis, only for his chances to have been seemingly nipped in the bud with the announcement of his Mii Costume as a purchase bonus for the first Fighters Pass, much to the dismay of many of his supporters. Min Min's announcement roughly 2 years later would then revive hope for his inclusion due to both of their home games being unable to get fighters in the base game due to time constraints, only for Pyra and Mythra to be the playable representatives of the game instead of him about another year later[[note]]He'd still have occasional appearances in their moveset, similar to Chrom in ''Smash 4''[[/note]]. Even after the March presentation revealed he was initially planned and was only dropped due to hardware limitations, along with his wide presence for a "support character", fans within both the ''Smash'' and ''Xenoblade'' fandoms have been split on whether this was the right choice. Those content with Pyra and Mythra state that their inclusion is justified given their [[PopularityPower popularity]], and they offer a more unique experience with them being semiclones of each other and their ability to swap. Those who wanted a playable Rex feel how only the Aegis being playable sides with his detractors[[labelnote:*]](A joke in the presentation didn't help this either, as it gave them something to focus on [[AccentuateTheNegative despite the preceding reveal of the initial plans and his large presence]])[[/labelnote]], plays favoritism presence]], which didn't help any Rex fans upset by his MemeticLoser status exacerbating when it looked like he would finally avert it)[[/labelnote]], panders to those [[MsFanservice solely attracted to them for their looks]], and worsens an existing FandomEnragingMisconception {{Fandom Enraging Misconception}}s for the Aegis and their home game, citing how game (as surface-level arguments about [[BestKnownForTheFanservice their designs and if they're all there is to the game]] were reignited following the reveal.reveal). Another camp who wanted both him and the Aegis playable also lament how the Driver and Blade system could not be translated to ''Smash'', with some also saying the reveal [[YankTheDogsChain cheated them with how the trailer's buildup was framed]] looked like they were indeed going to be a duo fighter as previously speculated. The ambiguity of ''Smash's'' future after ''Ultimate'' certainly doesn't help this, meaning it's uncertain if Rex will even get a chance to become playable in a future installment much like Chrom before him, let alone if the Aegis (or even Shulk) will also return. Then there's the possibility of a ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles3'' rep and if it could stand against his chances due to theoretical resource reasons.
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* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Pikachu]]''': A base-breaking SeriesMascot in its home series, Pikachu is generally well-received in ''Smash'' but one particular aspect causes it to retain this status: [[HighTierScrappy its gameplay mechanics]]. In all its appearances, Pikachu has been a small, hard-to-hit, very speedy combo-oriented character who can completely ''invalidate'' some taller and/or slower characters. This got to the point that it's been one of the absolute best characters in ''64'', ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' '''and''' ''Ultimate'' at some point, and also top 10 in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', with even some of its matchups against fellow top tiers approaching CurbStompBattle status. Combined with the reasons for its contention in its home series and its cutesy voice and design becoming much more irritating in a heated battle,[[note]]which, in any other context, are [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter part of the appeal of Pikachu's character]],[[/note]] many are sick of Pikachu automatically making life hell for any tall and/or heavy characters that may join the roster and wish it could be fundamentally rebalanced to make things fairer for the rest of the cast. On the other hand, in every game except ''64'', [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBM) it has few]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBB) professionals relative to]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSB4) its position on]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBU) the tier list]], and due to its [[DifficultButAwesome skill ceiling]] it never reached ''the'' top spot in any game after 64. This reached a head with MovesetClone Pichu in early versions of ''Ultimate'', which embodied every criticism of Pikachu: nigh-impossible to hit, extremely dominating and damaging combos, and overly skewed matchups in its favor, all topped off with its overly cutesy design, voice and presentation making it ''infuriating'' to face in intense competitive matches. Before it got {{Nerf}}ed, ''Ultimate'' Pichu was one of the strongest examples of a HighTierScrappy in the entire series, and an exaggerated demonstration of why many players groan when facing its big brother.

to:

* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Pikachu]]''': A base-breaking SeriesMascot in its home series, Pikachu is generally well-received in ''Smash'' but one particular aspect causes it to retain this status: [[HighTierScrappy its gameplay mechanics]]. In all its appearances, Pikachu has been a small, hard-to-hit, very speedy combo-oriented character who can completely ''invalidate'' some taller and/or slower characters. This got to the point that it's been one of the absolute best characters in ''64'', ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' '''and''' ''Ultimate'' at some point, and also top 10 in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', with even some of its matchups against fellow top tiers approaching CurbStompBattle status. Combined with the reasons for its contention in its home series and its cutesy voice and design becoming much more irritating in a heated battle,[[note]]which, in any other context, are [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter part of the appeal of Pikachu's character]],[[/note]] many are sick of Pikachu automatically making life hell for any tall and/or heavy characters that may join the roster and wish it could be fundamentally rebalanced to make things fairer for the rest of the cast. On the other hand, in every game except ''64'', [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBM) it has few]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBB) professionals relative to]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSB4) its position on]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBU) the tier list]], and due to its [[DifficultButAwesome skill ceiling]] it never reached ''the'' top spot in any game after 64. This reached a head with MovesetClone Pichu in early versions of ''Ultimate'', which embodied and exaggerated every criticism of Pikachu: nigh-impossible to hit, extremely dominating and damaging combos, and overly skewed matchups in its favor, all topped off with its overly cutesy design, voice and presentation making it ''infuriating'' to face in intense competitive matches. Before it got {{Nerf}}ed, ''Ultimate'' Pichu was one of the strongest examples of a HighTierScrappy in the entire series, and an exaggerated demonstration of why many players groan when facing its big brother.
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* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Pikachu]]''': A base-breaking SeriesMascot in its home series, Pikachu is generally well-received in ''Smash'' but one particular aspect causes it to retain this status: [[HighTierScrappy its gameplay mechanics]]. In all its appearances, Pikachu has been a small, hard-to-hit, very speedy combo-oriented character who can completely ''invalidate'' some taller and/or slower characters. This got to the point that it's been one of the absolute best characters in ''64'', ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' '''and''' ''Ultimate'' at some point, and also top 10 in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', with even some of its matchups against fellow top tiers approaching CurbStompBattle status. Combined with the reasons for its contention in its home series and its cutesy voice and design becoming much more irritating in a heated battle,[[note]]which, in any other context, are [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter part of the appeal of Pikachu's character]],[[/note]] many are sick of Pikachu automatically making life hell for any tall and/or heavy characters that may join the roster and wish it could be fundamentally rebalanced to make things fairer for the rest of the cast. On the other hand, in every game except ''64'', [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBM) it has few]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBB) professionals relative to]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSB4) its position on]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBU) the tier list]]. This reached a head with MovesetClone Pichu in early versions of ''Ultimate'', which embodied every criticism of Pikachu: nigh-impossible to hit, extremely dominating and damaging combos, and overly skewed matchups in its favor, all topped off with its overly cutesy design, voice and presentation making it ''infuriating'' to face in intense competitive matches. Before it got {{Nerf}}ed, ''Ultimate'' Pichu was one of the strongest examples of a HighTierScrappy in the entire series, and an exaggerated demonstration of why many players groan when facing its big brother.

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* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Pikachu]]''': A base-breaking SeriesMascot in its home series, Pikachu is generally well-received in ''Smash'' but one particular aspect causes it to retain this status: [[HighTierScrappy its gameplay mechanics]]. In all its appearances, Pikachu has been a small, hard-to-hit, very speedy combo-oriented character who can completely ''invalidate'' some taller and/or slower characters. This got to the point that it's been one of the absolute best characters in ''64'', ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' '''and''' ''Ultimate'' at some point, and also top 10 in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', with even some of its matchups against fellow top tiers approaching CurbStompBattle status. Combined with the reasons for its contention in its home series and its cutesy voice and design becoming much more irritating in a heated battle,[[note]]which, in any other context, are [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter part of the appeal of Pikachu's character]],[[/note]] many are sick of Pikachu automatically making life hell for any tall and/or heavy characters that may join the roster and wish it could be fundamentally rebalanced to make things fairer for the rest of the cast. On the other hand, in every game except ''64'', [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBM) it has few]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBB) professionals relative to]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSB4) its position on]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_players_(SSBU) the tier list]].list]], and due to its [[DifficultButAwesome skill ceiling]] it never reached ''the'' top spot in any game after 64. This reached a head with MovesetClone Pichu in early versions of ''Ultimate'', which embodied every criticism of Pikachu: nigh-impossible to hit, extremely dominating and damaging combos, and overly skewed matchups in its favor, all topped off with its overly cutesy design, voice and presentation making it ''infuriating'' to face in intense competitive matches. Before it got {{Nerf}}ed, ''Ultimate'' Pichu was one of the strongest examples of a HighTierScrappy in the entire series, and an exaggerated demonstration of why many players groan when facing its big brother.

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