History BrokenBase / SuperSmashBros

23rd Feb '18 2:22:46 PM Chasem
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** '''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}''' became a BaseBreakingCharacter the second she was revealed. On one hand, you have the fans who are happy to see her, citing her unique combo-heavy moveset and snarky personality as factors. She in fact got in due to her high ranking in the Fighter Ballot[[note]]Announced as #1 in Europe, in the Top 5 in the US among "realizable" and "negotiable" characters and overall ranking high worldwide[[/note]], at least among realizable characters. However, some fans believe that she wasn't a "worthy" choice (especially compared to other popular contenders), leading to accusations of vote rigging or outright lying. This crowd will often cite polls on other websites, such as Website/{{Reddit}}, which showed characters such as K. Rool, VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Banjo & Kazooie]], etc. as ballot leaders, seemingly to say that [[SilentMajority almost nobody could've voted for her]], which only leads to further arguments that [[FanMyopia such polls don't represent the entire fandom]]. In addition, there are also those who detest Bayonetta's inclusion due to their belief that she doesn't really "fit" in Smash Bros, being significantly more violent (particularly her [[NightmareFuel nightmarish]] Final Smash) and sexualized than any other character on the roster. There are also fans who are fine or even thrilled with Bayonetta being chosen from the ballot, but feel disappointed that she's the only such character chosen.

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** '''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}''' became a BaseBreakingCharacter the second she was revealed. On one hand, you have the fans who are happy to see her, citing her unique combo-heavy moveset and snarky personality as factors. She in fact got in due to her high ranking in the Fighter Ballot[[note]]Announced as #1 in Europe, in the Top 5 in the US among "realizable" and "negotiable" characters and overall ranking high worldwide[[/note]], at least among realizable characters. However, some fans believe that she wasn't a "worthy" choice (especially compared to other popular contenders), leading to accusations of vote rigging or outright lying. This crowd will often cite polls on other websites, such as Website/{{Reddit}}, which showed characters such as K. Rool, VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Banjo & Kazooie]], etc. as ballot leaders, seemingly to say that [[SilentMajority almost nobody could've voted for her]], which only leads to further arguments that [[FanMyopia such polls don't represent the entire fandom]]. In addition, there are also those who detest Bayonetta's inclusion due to their belief that she doesn't really "fit" in Smash Bros, being significantly more violent (particularly her [[NightmareFuel nightmarish]] Final Smash) and sexualized than any other character on the roster. There are also fans who are fine or even thrilled with Bayonetta being chosen from the ballot, but feel disappointed that she's the only such character chosen. Her status as the alleged best character in the game (being the top-ranked character on the tier list twice in a row) has intensified this, with some fans being proud that such a hype-worthy and canonically extremely powerful GuestFighter has earned such a placement, and others complaining about Bayonetta being "pay-to-win" due to her status as a DLC character, and overshadowing all of the first-party Nintendo characters on the roster aside from [[BewareTheSillyOnes Diddy Kong]].
14th Feb '18 1:03:37 PM N8han11
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* '''Zero Suit Samus'''. Some people like her for her interesting moveset, for being [[MsFanservice very beautiful]], for adding more variety to Samus' playstyle in ''Brawl'', and for essentially being a [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] to the beloved Captain Falcon. Other people despise her for being a blatant MsFanservice in a game that didn't need any, for being a much better character than the Varia-suited Samus and limiting standard Samus' abilities and potency to keep her two forms distinct,[[note]]which completely violates ''Metroid'' canon,[[/note]] and most of all, for [[BestKnownForTheFanservice allegedly attracting horny fanboys]] uninterested in the ''Metroid'' games and giving Samus too much of a reputation as a "sexy blonde chick" rather than a powerful warrior -- a debate that spills over to the ''Metroid'' fandom. The heat only increased when the Zero Suit was redesigned to resemble her appearance in ''Other M'', an extremely controversial game, with added [[CombatStilettos weaponized high heels]] a la [[HilariousInHindsight Bayonetta]].

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* '''Zero Suit Samus'''. Some people like her for her interesting moveset, for being [[MsFanservice very beautiful]], for adding more variety to Samus' playstyle in ''Brawl'', and for essentially being a [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] to the beloved Captain Falcon. Other people despise her for being a blatant MsFanservice in a game that didn't need any, for being a much better character than the Varia-suited Samus and limiting standard Samus' abilities and potency to keep her two forms distinct,[[note]]which Samus[[note]]which completely violates ''Metroid'' canon,[[/note]] and most of all, for [[BestKnownForTheFanservice allegedly attracting horny fanboys]] uninterested in the ''Metroid'' games and giving Samus too much of a reputation as a "sexy blonde chick" rather than a powerful warrior -- a debate that spills over to the ''Metroid'' fandom. The heat only increased when the Zero Suit was redesigned to resemble her appearance in ''Other M'', an extremely controversial game, with added [[CombatStilettos weaponized high heels]] a la [[HilariousInHindsight Bayonetta]].
9th Feb '18 1:24:33 PM Chasem
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* '''Zero Suit Samus'''. Some people like her for her interesting moveset, for being [[MsFanservice very beautiful]], for adding more variety to Samus' playstyle in ''Brawl'', and for essentially being a [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] to the beloved Captain Falcon. Other people despise her for being a blatant MsFanservice in a game that didn't need any, for being a much better character than the Varia-suited Samus,[[note]]which completely violates ''Metroid'' canon,[[/note]] and most of all, for [[BestKnownForTheFanservice allegedly attracting horny fanboys]] uninterested in the ''Metroid'' games and giving Samus too much of a reputation as a "sexy blonde chick" rather than a powerful warrior -- a debate that spills over to the ''Metroid'' fandom. The heat only increased when the Zero Suit was redesigned to resemble her appearance in ''Other M'', an extremely controversial game, with added [[CombatStilettos weaponized high heels]] a la [[HilariousInHindsight Bayonetta]].

to:

* '''Zero Suit Samus'''. Some people like her for her interesting moveset, for being [[MsFanservice very beautiful]], for adding more variety to Samus' playstyle in ''Brawl'', and for essentially being a [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] to the beloved Captain Falcon. Other people despise her for being a blatant MsFanservice in a game that didn't need any, for being a much better character than the Varia-suited Samus,[[note]]which Samus and limiting standard Samus' abilities and potency to keep her two forms distinct,[[note]]which completely violates ''Metroid'' canon,[[/note]] and most of all, for [[BestKnownForTheFanservice allegedly attracting horny fanboys]] uninterested in the ''Metroid'' games and giving Samus too much of a reputation as a "sexy blonde chick" rather than a powerful warrior -- a debate that spills over to the ''Metroid'' fandom. The heat only increased when the Zero Suit was redesigned to resemble her appearance in ''Other M'', an extremely controversial game, with added [[CombatStilettos weaponized high heels]] a la [[HilariousInHindsight Bayonetta]].
9th Feb '18 1:07:09 PM YoriIroy
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* After the initial wave of hype from his inclusion in ''Brawl'', Sonic has devolved into this. '''Sonic''' suffers in ''[=SSB4=]'' for being a high-tier TierInducedScrappy and for the poor reputation of [[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog his home series]], with many people citing him as their least-favorite third-party character. Along with this, while many people are happy about his inclusion, some ''Sonic'' fans themselves are not quite so happy about it. Due to the UsefulNotes/ConsoleWars between SEGA and Nintendo, there is a vocal minority of Sonic fans who have a grudge against Nintendo and see Sonic being in a Smash Bros. game -- that is, a representation of Nintendo and its history -- as an insult. There is another group who don't mind Sonic being playable in the Smash Bros. series but take a lot of pride in Sonic and Mario being rivals; they are not happy until Mario cameos as a playable character in a SEGA ensemble game. Both groups view Sonic's inclusion in the Smash Bros. games as a degradation of the character they love so much. Additionally, some fans are happy with his inclusion but think his moveset is too generic/boring (two of his specials are spin dashes, and his up-special is similar to Mega Man's and Pac-Man's.).

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* After the initial wave of hype from his inclusion in ''Brawl'', Sonic has devolved into this. '''Sonic''' suffers in ''[=SSB4=]'' for being a high-tier TierInducedScrappy and for the poor reputation of [[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog his home series]], with many people citing him as their least-favorite third-party character. Along with this, while many people are happy about his inclusion, some ''Sonic'' fans themselves are not quite so happy about it. Due to the UsefulNotes/ConsoleWars between SEGA and Nintendo, there is a vocal minority of Sonic fans who have a grudge against Nintendo and see Sonic being in a Smash Bros. game -- that is, a representation of Nintendo and its history -- as an insult. There is another group who don't mind Sonic being playable in the Smash Bros. series but take a lot of pride in Sonic and Mario being rivals; they are not happy until Mario cameos as a playable character in a SEGA ensemble game. Both groups view Sonic's inclusion in the Smash Bros. games as a degradation of the character they love so much. Additionally, some fans are happy with his inclusion but think his moveset is too generic/boring (two of his specials are spin dashes, and his up-special is similar to Mega Man's and Pac-Man's.Pac-Man's up-specials are similar to his.).
5th Feb '18 5:22:09 PM Chasem
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* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''' in general is [[SacredCow the most beloved Nintendo character of all time]], but his personality and treatment in ''Smash'' have been slightly contentious. ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' eschew Mario's usual FunPersonified depiction for a more "hardcore" and "[[TheStoic stoic]]" vibe barely seen elsewhere apart from ''VideoGame/SuperMarioStrikers''; some fans enjoy this different take on Mario because it fits more with the game's diverse blend of characters, while others claim that it makes him less likable and doesn't mesh well with his quirky, iconic design and voice, not helped by his MostAnnoyingSound of "Hoooooo... HAH!" during ''all three of his victory poses'' in those two games. Additionally, Mario gets more focus than any other character in the games and their marketing; aside from the bloated and sometimes redundant representation of his franchise in general, he's the universal "default" or "tester" character for many of the in-game options, many ads and the "How to Play" videos play up his rivalry with DK or Bowser rather than the MassiveMultiplayerCrossover aspect,[[note]]although this applies to ads targeted more towards children and families, who [[JustHereForGodzilla treat the series as a Mario spinoff]];
ads targeted towards older gamers put less overt emphasis on Mario[[/note]] and he was a notoriously and annoyingly common Toys/{{amiibo}} for most of 2014 and 2015. Some people accept this due to his role as Nintendo's mascot and the resident JackOfAllStats character, while others claim that [[WolverinePublicity excessive exposure of any kind]] is bad and that Mario's fame and importance don't make him immune to its adverse effects.

to:

* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''' in general is [[SacredCow the most beloved Nintendo character of all time]], but his personality and treatment in ''Smash'' have been slightly contentious. ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' eschew Mario's usual FunPersonified depiction for a more "hardcore" and "[[TheStoic stoic]]" vibe barely seen elsewhere apart from ''VideoGame/SuperMarioStrikers''; some fans enjoy this different take on Mario because it fits more with the game's diverse blend of characters, while others claim that it makes him less likable and doesn't mesh well with his quirky, iconic design and voice, not helped by his MostAnnoyingSound of "Hoooooo... HAH!" during ''all three of his victory poses'' in those two games. Additionally, Mario gets more focus than any other character in the games and their marketing; aside from the bloated and sometimes redundant representation of his franchise in general, he's the universal "default" or "tester" character for many of the in-game options, many ads and the "How to Play" videos play up his rivalry with DK or Bowser rather than the MassiveMultiplayerCrossover aspect,[[note]]although this applies to ads targeted more towards children and families, who [[JustHereForGodzilla treat the series as a Mario spinoff]];
spinoff]]; ads targeted towards older gamers put less overt emphasis on Mario[[/note]] and he was a notoriously and annoyingly common Toys/{{amiibo}} for most of 2014 and 2015. Some people accept this due to his role as Nintendo's mascot and the resident JackOfAllStats character, while others claim that [[WolverinePublicity excessive exposure of any kind]] is bad and that Mario's fame and importance don't make him immune to its adverse effects.
5th Feb '18 5:21:42 PM Chasem
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* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''' in general is [[SacredCow the most beloved Nintendo character of all time]], but his personality and treatment in ''Smash'' have been slightly contentious. ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' eschew Mario's usual FunPersonified depiction for a more "hardcore" and "[[TheStoic stoic]]" vibe barely seen elsewhere apart from ''VideoGame/SuperMarioStrikers''; some fans enjoy this different take on Mario because it fits more with the game's diverse blend of characters, while others claim that it makes him less likable and doesn't mesh well with his quirky, iconic design and voice, not helped by his MostAnnoyingSound of "Hoooooo... HAH!" during ''all three of his victory poses'' in those two games. Additionally, Mario gets more focus than any other character in the games and their marketing; aside from the bloated and sometimes redundant representation of his franchise in general, he's the universal "default" or "tester" character for many of the in-game options, many ads and the "How to Play" videos play up his rivalry with DK or Bowser rather than the MassiveMultiplayerCrossover aspect,[[note]]although this applies to ads targeted more towards children and families, who [[JustHereForGodzilla treat the series as a Mario spinoff;

to:

* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''' in general is [[SacredCow the most beloved Nintendo character of all time]], but his personality and treatment in ''Smash'' have been slightly contentious. ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' eschew Mario's usual FunPersonified depiction for a more "hardcore" and "[[TheStoic stoic]]" vibe barely seen elsewhere apart from ''VideoGame/SuperMarioStrikers''; some fans enjoy this different take on Mario because it fits more with the game's diverse blend of characters, while others claim that it makes him less likable and doesn't mesh well with his quirky, iconic design and voice, not helped by his MostAnnoyingSound of "Hoooooo... HAH!" during ''all three of his victory poses'' in those two games. Additionally, Mario gets more focus than any other character in the games and their marketing; aside from the bloated and sometimes redundant representation of his franchise in general, he's the universal "default" or "tester" character for many of the in-game options, many ads and the "How to Play" videos play up his rivalry with DK or Bowser rather than the MassiveMultiplayerCrossover aspect,[[note]]although this applies to ads targeted more towards children and families, who [[JustHereForGodzilla treat the series as a Mario spinoff;spinoff]];
5th Feb '18 5:21:35 PM Chasem
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* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''' in general is [[SacredCow the most beloved Nintendo character of all time]], but his personality and treatment in ''Smash'' have been slightly contentious. ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' eschew Mario's usual FunPersonified depiction for a more "hardcore" and "[[TheStoic stoic]]" vibe barely seen elsewhere apart from ''VideoGame/SuperMarioStrikers''; some fans enjoy this different take on Mario because it fits more with the game's diverse blend of characters, while others claim that it makes him less likable and doesn't mesh well with his quirky, iconic design and voice, not helped by his MostAnnoyingSound of "Hoooooo... HAH!" during ''all three of his victory poses'' in those two games. Additionally, Mario gets more focus than any other character in the games and their marketing; aside from the bloated and sometimes redundant representation of his franchise in general, he's the universal "default" or "tester" character for many of the in-game options, many ads and the "How to Play" videos play up his rivalry with DK or Bowser rather than the MassiveMultiplayerCrossover aspect, and he was a notoriously and annoyingly common Toys/{{amiibo}} for most of 2014 and 2015. Some people accept this due to his role as Nintendo's mascot and the resident JackOfAllStats character, while others claim that [[WolverinePublicity excessive exposure of any kind]] is bad and that Mario's fame and importance don't make him immune to its adverse effects.

to:

* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''' in general is [[SacredCow the most beloved Nintendo character of all time]], but his personality and treatment in ''Smash'' have been slightly contentious. ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' eschew Mario's usual FunPersonified depiction for a more "hardcore" and "[[TheStoic stoic]]" vibe barely seen elsewhere apart from ''VideoGame/SuperMarioStrikers''; some fans enjoy this different take on Mario because it fits more with the game's diverse blend of characters, while others claim that it makes him less likable and doesn't mesh well with his quirky, iconic design and voice, not helped by his MostAnnoyingSound of "Hoooooo... HAH!" during ''all three of his victory poses'' in those two games. Additionally, Mario gets more focus than any other character in the games and their marketing; aside from the bloated and sometimes redundant representation of his franchise in general, he's the universal "default" or "tester" character for many of the in-game options, many ads and the "How to Play" videos play up his rivalry with DK or Bowser rather than the MassiveMultiplayerCrossover aspect, aspect,[[note]]although this applies to ads targeted more towards children and families, who [[JustHereForGodzilla treat the series as a Mario spinoff;
ads targeted towards older gamers put less overt emphasis on Mario[[/note]]
and he was a notoriously and annoyingly common Toys/{{amiibo}} for most of 2014 and 2015. Some people accept this due to his role as Nintendo's mascot and the resident JackOfAllStats character, while others claim that [[WolverinePublicity excessive exposure of any kind]] is bad and that Mario's fame and importance don't make him immune to its adverse effects.
24th Jan '18 1:24:32 PM Chasem
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* The concept of characters as LivingToys, which is demonstrated in the first two games and to a lesser extent ''VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary'', defied via CanonWelding with ''VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising'' and ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'', and somewhat ambiguous otherwise. The debate is very similar to ''VideoGame/SuperMarioBros3'' being [[AnimatedActors confirmed to be a stage play]]. Some people agree with the concept and even take it further in some instances, claiming it to be similar to ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory''. Others claim that it devalues the whole crossover/fighting concept and will point to the aforementioned CanonWelding as proof that the characters are "real" in some capacity, or [[FanonDiscontinuity even dismiss the concept of living trophies entirely]].

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* The concept of characters as LivingToys, which is demonstrated in the first two games and to a lesser extent ''VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary'', ''VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary'' and Toys/{{amiibo}} gameplay in [=3DS/Wii U=], defied via CanonWelding with ''VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising'' and ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'', and somewhat ambiguous otherwise. The debate is very similar to ''VideoGame/SuperMarioBros3'' being [[AnimatedActors confirmed to be a stage play]]. Some people agree with the concept and even take it further in some instances, claiming it to be similar to ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory''. Others claim that it devalues the whole crossover/fighting concept and will point to the aforementioned CanonWelding as proof that the characters are "real" in some capacity, or [[FanonDiscontinuity even dismiss the concept of living trophies entirely]].entirely]].
* The ''Melee'' competitive scene. ''Melee'' is the most popular ''Smash'' game to watch and play competitively, and many people enjoy both the fast-paced high-level battles and the larger-than-life personalities of popular Smashers such as [=Mew2King=] and Armada. Others (especially fans of the later games, and even ''other fighting games'') resent the ''Melee'' community and treat it (or even the game itself) with HypeBacklash, as its competitive elitism is largely responsible for the FandomRivalry and CasualCompetitiveConflict between games. Some even find competitive ''Melee'' to be SnarkBait for factors such as turning a family-friendly party game into a SeriousBusiness professional sport, overemphasizing its GoodBadBugs, rampant ComplacentGamingSyndrome reducing the game to "[[MemeticMutation no items, Fox only, Final Destination]]", relying on antiquated equipment such as CRT televisions and very specific [=GameCube=] controllers that suffer from a bug, and the "[[MassiveMultiplayerCrossover Nintendo All-Stars]]" aspect being disregarded in favor of treating ''professional players'' as the characters of the game rather than the fighters themselves.
22nd Jan '18 3:05:49 PM Chasem
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** Because Corrin became the poster child for ''Fire Emblem'' overrepresentation in ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'', the franchise's elevation to [[CashCowFranchise cash cow]] via ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' has allowed some people to reassess their opinion on Corrin. Some people argue that Corrin has become one of the most iconic characters in the series, as the main character of its second best-selling title, and that their place in ''Smash'' has become more justified over time and in hindsight especially due to their unique NinjaPirateZombieRobot moveset that easily attracts new fans. Others argue that, for all of its newfound success, ''Fire Emblem'' had no need to hijack ''Smash'' and its hype to get to that point, that Corrin is just as unwanted and unnecessary as ever, and that even with ''Heroes'' and its success, Corrin is a BaseBreakingCharacter in their ''native'' game and it would have been wiser to add a more universally-liked ''FE'' character (such as [[VideoGame/FireEmblemBlazingSword Lyndis]]) who (could have potentially) ended up being given just as much exposure.

to:

** Because Corrin became the poster child for ''Fire Emblem'' overrepresentation in ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'', the franchise's elevation to [[CashCowFranchise cash cow]] via ''VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes'' has allowed some people to reassess their opinion on Corrin. Some people argue that Corrin has become one of the most iconic characters in the series, as the main character of its second best-selling title, and that their place in ''Smash'' has become more justified over time and in hindsight especially due to their unique NinjaPirateZombieRobot moveset that easily attracts new fans. Others argue that, for all of its newfound success, ''Fire Emblem'' had no need to hijack ''Smash'' and its hype to get to that point, that Corrin is just as unwanted and unnecessary as ever, and that even with ''Heroes'' and its success, Corrin is a BaseBreakingCharacter in their ''native'' game and it would have been wiser to add a more universally-liked ''FE'' character (such as Tiki or [[VideoGame/FireEmblemBlazingSword Lyndis]]) who (could have potentially) ended up being given just as much exposure.
22nd Jan '18 3:04:49 PM Chasem
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** While a good number of folks were excited to see them, and they have a very impressive and creative moveset based around turning into a dragon, many others were upset over there being yet another ''Fire Emblem'' character in ''Smash'' (see the over-representation section below), or that Corrin's addition was just a cheap way to advertise their own game ([[BrokenBase/FireEmblemFates itself a HUGELY divisive entry in many ways with Corrin being just as base-breaking in their native game]]), especially since his announcement came long after an interview in which Sakurai promised the rest of the DLC would be "pure fanservice". On the flip-side, many Corrin fans have pointed out that what Sakurai means by "fanservice" is completely different from the fans' interpretation, and that it's the haters' faults for trying to push their expectations onto Sakurai. When ''Fates'' was finally released in the West, it became a massive success, suggesting (along with Sakurai himself being aware of the ''Fire Emblem'' overrepresentation problem) that Nintendo knew exactly what they were doing by putting Corrin in the game.

to:

** While a good number of folks were excited to see them, and they have a very impressive and creative moveset based around turning into a dragon, many others were upset over there being yet another ''Fire Emblem'' character in ''Smash'' (see the over-representation section below), or that Corrin's addition was just a cheap way to advertise their own game ([[BrokenBase/FireEmblemFates itself a HUGELY divisive entry in many ways with right down to Corrin being just as base-breaking in their native game]]), themselves]]), especially since his announcement came long after an interview in which Sakurai promised the rest of the DLC would be "pure fanservice". On the flip-side, many Corrin fans have pointed out that what Sakurai means by "fanservice" is completely different from the fans' interpretation, and that it's the haters' faults for trying to push their expectations onto Sakurai. When ''Fates'' was finally released in the West, it became a massive success, suggesting (along with Sakurai himself being aware of the ''Fire Emblem'' overrepresentation problem) that Nintendo knew exactly what they were doing by putting Corrin in the game.
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