It's a Gundam thread!

Those last 2 episodes of 08th MS Team were weird. But that last one man... What the fuck was up with that?

I believe it was because the original director or writer died. The last episode is just something the other staff members threw together.

So I just watched Mobile Suit Gundam F 91 for the first time. I'd been told it was a mess, and that wasn't wrong. There's almost, but not quite a plot, and you can tell that the film is the result of a series getting mashed together. It's too bad, because from the looks of it, it might have been a neat series, had it actually had time to tell the story it wanted to. Cecily's arc in particular suffers. In a full show she might have progressed from a scared hostage to a competent Action Girl, but in this we just get an Extreme Doormat who randomly decides to stand up to her father at the end, and fails pretty hard at that too, getting her ass kicked. Again, it's too bad, because a large part of me wants to like Cecily. She seems so promising at the start of the movie, but then it goes nowhere.

That said, I'm not sorry I watched the movie. I like Seabook, and think they made him as likeable as they could given the very limited time they had to work with. The guy who really saves the movie for me, however, is Carozzo. Yes he's a walking cliche, a mishmash of Char and Darth Vader, with some standard Aristocrats Are Evil tropes thrown in for good measure, but damn if he isn't fun to watch, especially with Tom Wyner's hammy vocal performance. Moreover, I love the Rafflesia. It looks like the Spawn of Yog-Sothoth and it fights like it to, which is a really welcome change from the standard Attack Drone equipped mobile suits that serve as the Final Boss in most series.

Anybody else find themselves wishing this had become a full series?

I'm gonna be watching it for the first time soon as well. It will be the finale to my Gundamathon for the time being.

A few points on 00 in response to some things:

Re: the Engrish and the A-LAWS: I think there must have been some English they wanted to use but somehow got corrupted along the way (for example, I think Reborns Gundam was supposed to be Ribbons Gundam but then got Iron Butterfly'd into Reborns), though for A-LAWS, it could mean "all laws," according to the Gundam Wiki, and I've seen it put forth that it could mean "Autonomous-Land Air Water Space." As for Pang, I think a Fan Nickname for him is Hank Hercule, which makes much more sense (I dunno what the dub uses or if it fixes anything off-sounding).

Well, the reason why he could hear it is kinda spoiler-y, but if you figured it had to do with Trans-Am, you're on the right track. Also, yeah, but he might have also been thinking that Lockon II or Tieria deserved to get revenge for Lockon I.

Tieria and several other Innovades are indeed agender (they use alternating gendered pronouns in the Japanese version, which is kinda lost when translating into English in any form), kind of a first for Gundam. Also, Setsuna was apparently confirmed to be asexual and seems to be aromantic.

I think 00 is just the most egregious about religious themes. It's kinda why I call 00 the Eva of Gundam.

As for Ribbons and sex...well, there might be some truth to the meme of "Fucking Ribbons."

edited 17th Apr '14 11:19:46 PM by RocketDude

Well he did kind of foreshadow it way in Episode 2 of season 1 with his landmark declaration that he is a Gundam...

Just watched A Wakening of the Trailblazer, and yes, he did become Gundam for real.

Frankly, this combination not working is one of those impossible how-could-you-fuck-this-up moments. F91 making it work means only that it is marginally capable.

F91 is like watching something that's gotten too much audience input from the Spacebattles crowd via its original forum thread. It's a mess of half-executed ideas and doing things solely for the cool factor because somebody on the team (or in the forum thread, seriously, you could convince me this was done by a Gundam thread in some forum) suggested them with "DUDE YOU HAVE TO DO THIS".

This is unique in that I normally only have to read that sort of thing.

It has the afflictions and the attractions of that format, namely that the guy executing is actually somewhat competent which is why people are making the suggestions, and if you throw enough good ideas at a semi-competent writer some of them will stick. But man is it uneven. It even has that moment of narrative choke where it all collapses into a pile of gunk.

edited 18th Apr '14 12:45:45 AM by Night

Carozzo is Crazy Awesome incarnate.

1. Wow, Lu Mei, her bro and Nena all killed in one episode. Translation: we don't know what the hell we're doing, wrap this up as soon as possible, kill all side characters with their own subplots as soon as possible. I guess I shouldn't complain, they killed tow lousy characters off. However I can totally understand the complaints about Saji and Louise returning. It's not even a matter of them being in he military now, at least not for me. it's that they have almost hijacked the main plot. They used to just be side characters who had to deal with the fallout of war but now they're pretty much right in there with the main story and they don't deserve to be.

2. Setsuna defeating Graham at the start of Episode 22 and shouting philosophy at him really hammers home how far he has kinda falen. I mean, I liked Kamille, I even liked (SEED) Kira and Amuro and Heero but they are all very different types of heroes from Setsuna. Heero was teh closest to him but he was never quite as bad as Setsuna and so when he started yelling MY IDEOLOGY at Zechs I didn't mind it so much. It's a tried-and-true staple of Gundam that I expect at this point. But Setsuna doing it to Graham felt really out-of-place when you take into account his S1 personality. Robo-Setsuna was pretty unique as Gundam protagonists go but what he has become is much less compelling simply because it's been done before and quite a lot. (Probably even more than I am aware of given the other Gundam series out there like ZZ, A, X and Victory. Do the various protagonists there indulge in mid-fight philosophical arguments too?)

3. This has nothing to do with anything but everytime they say "the 0 Gundam" it makes me think of Scirocco's Gundam, The O. I wish they would just call it the Zero Gundam.

4. And thus died Regene Regetta Why did she even exist?

5. This whole "the dialogues to come" stuff, is that alluding to the aliens in the movie? The best method for human-alien interaction is to have the Innovators speak for us? That's...an interesting take on things, although I'm probably wrong about all that.

6. Some pretty rockin' music in these last few episodes though. Whatever track is playing as the Meisters attack Ribbons' ship in Episode 23 is pretty great.

7. So Tieria being killed was the best thing he could do for the plot as now he's part of Veda and can not only disable the villains' forces but reveal the entire Plot. How handy. Looks like my thoughts about the "dialogues to come' were right. Yay.

8. Well that was at least a pretty sweet ending with Pat and Kati. Rest I can take or leave.

So that's 00 Season 2. It...wasn't Destiny-bad. I'd say it was more underwhelming than outright awful. I think most of the hate comes from people who really loved Season 1 and I only liked Season 1. I was never in love with 00 at any point so while I can see the changes and dislike them, I don't hate them.

Later I'll watch the 00 movie and F91 and then I guess that will be the end. Well of the visual dubbed material. I still wanna read Crossbone Gundam.

Oh and I gotta say that one of my favorite voices in the 00 dub is Soma's. I can't believe i didn't realize it was Fllay's voice-actress. She has this kind of lisp that is great because for Fllay it makes her even more irritating while with Soma it makes her kinda endearing. Tabitha St. Germain is her name. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/TabithaStGermain

EDIT: This has nothing to do with any of the rest of my post but I'm gonna get Gundam vs. Zeta Gundam next time I have some cash and so I was watching videos of it on YT. http://youtu.be/h9qvaMRkMb8?t=2m43s

Kamille's "you're someone who shouldn't be allowed to exist anymore!" to Haman is really kinda..it's very strongly worded I guess. I'm pretty sure it's in the anime too but I guess I just never noticed it before. I realize in effect he's just saying he's gonna kill her but the chosen word "exist" makes it sound so much more....visceral, like he's saying her very act of being is a cancer to the universe and he needs to vaporize her in body and soul.

I never watched ZZ obviously but it seems people have kinda lax feelings about Haman like she wasn't actually so terrible or evil so that's why the quote stuck out to me.

edited 18th Apr '14 5:40:22 AM by Nikkolas

Rau Le Creuset's big reveal and speech in Episode 45 of Seed is one of my favourite moments in the franchise. What are your favourite moments, everyone?

That's a good choice. It's one of my favorite's too.

I'll say Dozle Zabi's Last Stand, when he gets out of the ruined Big-Zam and keeps firing at the Gundam with a machine gun and then his simple willpower alone KO's Amuro due to his Newtype sensitivity not being able to handle it.

Any time a suit jumps in 08th MS Team (because they look like giant robots powered by thrusters rather than people); Topp's Zaku I demonstrating that yes, Zeon has considered the possibility of an infantry swarm attack in the same series; the Type 61s' moment to shine at Odessa in MSG and the Magella Attacks' similar moment from 08th MS.

My Battle Tech upbringing is showing.

Oh, and also every time the Victory Gundam gets trashed, because there's something about a series that's willing to do that.

edited 18th Apr '14 1:51:01 PM by Night

Amuro escaping Abaoa Qu after guiding his friends to safety telepathically. It's one of the best examples of newtype powers being subtle and not overdone magic. Also the soundtrack playing during that is iconic. Particularly in the Subbed movie ver.

The movie version really is the best way to watch First Gundam. I'd give it a 9/10 compared to the 6/10 anime version. It's that much of an improvement regarding pacing, dialogue, and story structure.

edited 19th Apr '14 3:49:30 AM by mr.gaben

But I thought the movies didn't have Ramba Ral.

Where did you hear that from? Really only M'Quve has his role reduced as he doesn't fight the Gundam. Other than that, the kids have less screen time, all the pointless filler battles are cut, the pace is significantly faster, and there's new (well, eighties) animation mixed in with the old. To be frank the TV version just doesn't compare to the three movies. The only thing that stands out is how the old animation clashes at times with the "new" animation.

Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsH1WAg8RhQ

Power of Love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJw7ZJ69ZXE

I don't know what the changes are to Destiny in Super Robot Wars UX are but since Gundam 00 A wakeining of the Trailblazer is in the game, I only assume that humanity was forced to perform an Enemy Mine due to the ELS.

So Shinn is forced to see that people on both sides are human. Yeah.

And Lacus and Meer are missing so there's that. I hear that the ending the is pretty open ended so there might be a sequel.

According to UX's trivia page, Destiny happened before the game even starts.

I just watched F91, or half of it anyway. It's unfortunate that it was cut short into a movie rather than a full series. There's a lot of potential here.

All those Darth Vader references though... The enemy mobile suits having faces shaped like Vader's helmet... The fucking Imperial March ripoff...

edited 19th Apr '14 4:55:17 PM by RangerJackWalker

Has any side material ever stated exactly how many colonies there are in the Universal Century or at least if more are actively being built? I mean it feels so convenient that there always seems to be a spare abandoned/destroyed one just laying around for the bad guys to drop on some populated area. For the amount of money those things no doubt cost to build you'd think the empty ones would be dissembled for spare parts or something.

Also, Katz is such a tool. Screw the brig, they should kick him out the airlock.

Yeah I dunno how, for example, the Shoal Zone still exists when I believe Side 5 was rebuilt after the war.

Side 1 is the Federation capital in space. With the most notable colony being Londenion, HQ of Londo Bell and the location where Char's Neo Zeon bargained for Axis. Was the site of some fighting during the first week on the One Year War.

Side 2 was one of the first clusters attacked by Zeon along with Side 1. Was most likely the location where Zeon gassed several colonies and attempted to drop one on Jaburo, but interference from Federal forces caused the colony to hit Sydney Australia instead.

Side 3 is of course the home of Zeon, and is on the far side of the moon. The only cluster to consist of closed-type colonies.

Side 4 was another cluster attacked by Zeon during the opening stages of the war. Likely severely damaged or possibly all but destroyed as by Gundam F91 there is only one colony present.

Side 5 was the location of the Battle of Loum, an attempt by Zeon to capture and drop another colony on Earth but was stopped in a vicious battle that saw the full use of both nuclear weapons and mobile suits. As a result Side 4 was completely destroyed. Most likely the source of the majority of debris and wreckage present in UC, as the battle was so devastating it was the cause of the Antarctic Treaty, not the first colony drop. Texas Colony was part of Side 4.

Side 6 was apparently a neutral colony cluster during the One Year War, but in secret Gundam Rn D that was exposed by Zeon on Side 7 was moved to side 6. Leading to the development of the Gundam Alex and an upgraded Pegasus Carrier.

Side 7 was the youngest cluster established just before the outbreak of the One Year War. Consisting of a single cylinder it was of course the home of the Federation's top secret V-Project.

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Side_1

edited 20th Apr '14 12:33:26 AM by mr.gaben

Where's that mentioned, and IIRC, weren't there colonies from one Side getting transferred to another Side, as per 0083?

I think he made a typo since that paragraph is supposed to refer to Side 5, which is at the L1 Libation point. (I don't get why they use the Side terminology when they could simply label the colonies by the Libation point they're located at)

Don't you mean Langrangian Point?

EDIT: Also, IIRC, Banpresto does that anyways, as per their Super Robot Wars Original Generation games.

edited 20th Apr '14 2:38:43 AM by HallowHawk

Because there are more than one Side at some Lagrange points. You can see a map of the Earth Sphere, with Lagrange points and Sides both labelled, here. Just to make things more confusing, though, the map changes between the One Year War and the Gryps Conflict — Sides 1, 2, 3, and 7 stay in the same place, but the labels for sides 4, 5, and 6 are swapped around. (Specifically, 4 becomes 6, 5 becomes 4, and 6 becomes 5.) It's possible (though not confirmed) that the population of Side 6 (the only non-Zeon Side to still have a population after the One Year War) was split between Sides 1 and 2 after the One Year War, because as far as I know we never hear reference to anything happening in a Side higher than 3 after the reorganization takes place.

Using OYW-era labels:

• Side 1: Gassed by Zeon at the opening of the One Year War. Repopulated after the war. Colony 30 was gassed by the Titans, which prompted the formation of the AEUG. Shangri-La, the colony that Judau & co of Gundam ZZ are from, is in Side 1. Londo Bell has their HQ in the Londenion colony in Side 1.
• Side 2: Gassed by Zeon at the opening of the One Year War. The colony that Zeon dropped (Isle Iffish) was from Side 2 (specifically, Side 2, Bunch 8). Repopulated after the war.
• Side 3: The Zeon homeland. Declares independence from the Earth Federation in UC 0058, fights the One Year War in 0079, gets jerked around by various factions like the Titans and Neo Zeon until UC 0096, and eventually rejoins the Earth Federation in UC 0100.
• Side 4: Gassed by Zeon at the opening of the One Year War. Does not seem to have been repopulated. Redesignated Side 6 by Zeta.
• Side 5: AKA Loum. Not just depopulated via gas, but completely destroyed in the crossfire of the full-scale fleet battle known as the Battle of Loum that took place near the beginning of the One Year War. The Texas colony, where Amuro and Char have their Gundam vs Gelgoog duel, was originally part of Side 5. Redesignated Side 4 by Zeta, and partially rebuilt as the Frontier Side by F91.
• Side 6: Avoided damage during the One Year War by declaring neutrality. It's unclear whether they were actually independent from the Earth Federation before then. In either case, they rejoin it as soon as the war ends. The population from Side 6 may have been moved to Sides 1 and 2 after the war, as they're essentially never heard from again. Redesignated Side 5 by Zeta.
• Side 7: Not a full Side, but just a single colony. Home to Amuro and the White Base refugee crew. A second colony is eventually built at Side 7, which is where Kamille and Fa are from. That colony is actually made up of two segments, Gryps I (a Titans base) and Gryps II (eventually converted into the colony laser that everyone spends the latter third of Zeta fighting over).

edited 20th Apr '14 10:55:14 AM by NativeJovian